BPDFamily.com

A few decades ago affairs and closet behaviors might have had an impact in court, they were typical weapons in divorces, but today most courts studiously avoid such things.  In most states, no-fault ones, his strategy would be decades out of date and probably meaningless as leverage.  Sort of, "live and let live, parenting behaviors are the focus here, move on to next question".  Today's hot button issues are far different: DV, threat of DV, child abuse or child neglect.

In my son's sole legal custody hearing everything was on the record.  However, it was not transcribed.  You have to pay for that and it is rather expensive. . .we had it transcribed (around 1k) in preparation for his going back to court to remove her parental rights. 

I believe there is an adage: The lawyer who defends himself has a fool for a client.

LnL - This court date is to decide only sole legal custody? Where do you stand on physical custody?

That's good to know -- that the transcription is optional, and expensive. Did you have it transcribed right away? Or can you wait? In my case, I don't think the case to remove his parental rights is strong, so that's not likely going to happen.

As much as I can't stand Vakin, this is an interesting read... .

www.samvak.tripod.com/narcissistincourt.html

LnL - "Just the facts, ma'am" I think where they trip us up is when we try to defend ourselves. The more we explain, the more ammunition we give them to make us falter. AND the more verbal twisting they do.

You said one of his motions was to get rid of the Parental Coordinator (I assume that's what you meant by PC?). Will the PC be called to testify? If they were court mandated, the court would probably like to hear about how he threatened them?

Why did you get the list of his questions?

You need to be very well prepared, even if you think you will win.

Read Rose Tigers post and look at ways to get him off balance. I few well placed punches can be more effective to bring someone down than madly hitting with no target or plan. Google "Narcissists in court" and more and become as educated as you can. I know you have already done this, but don't leave anything to chance.

Appeals are apparently rare.  One reason is that judges prefer settlements which can't be appealed and then make the judge look bad if the case is overturned or remanded back for reconsideration.  Appeals usually don't work unless there's be a technical error, serious failure or somesuch.  Regular family court hearings don't bother much about the holding strictly to the dates, rules and procedures, but trials and appeal cases do.

Thanks FD.

I'm wondering if I can answer questions with, "The way you have phrased the question, the answer is yes."

For example, in the 40-page discovery/interrogatory he just sent (which he didn't file on time, so my L says the trial can go forward without it), his questions are like this one:

"Admit that the plaintiff (LnL) does not deny the affair(s)."

My L said that almost all of the questions are objectionable, but there are 39 questions and I'm trying to save money, so don't want to waste time and money going over everything. As a result, I'm not sure which ones I'll have to answer, but I'm guessing it's just like the deposition, where you barely answer?

Are there any other types of questions you are concerned about?  Any other examples from the past or from the interrogatories?

Admit that Plaintiff did not sign the Parenting Coordinator Consent Order (PC Order), which was agreed to in Date Year to Date Year,

Admit that the PC Order was agreed to because Plaintiff refused to agree to joint legal custody with Defendant for the minor child.

Admit that at her deposition, Plaintiff couid not identify one circumstance where Defendant did not cooperate with Plaintiff making parenting decisions.

Admit that Plaintiff has refused io cooperate with Defendant since the beginning of the separation, and that her continued refusal has endangered the minor child. 

Admit that Plaintiff continues to make unilateral decisions regarding the minor child, such as an application to Private School, without informing Defendant until after the process was underway, and with unreasonably short notice.

Admit that although Defendant expressed concern about Plaintiffs unlateral action, he attended the interview at Private School.

Admit that Defendant made repeated requests for  to sign the PC Order and increased his requests in Month Month Month Month, Year, and Plaintiff did not respond to Defendant or act to sign the PC Order.

Admit that prior to Date Year, Defendant offered to go to marriage and family counseling with Plaintiff “any time and any place" and Plaintiff declined.

Admit that on Date Year Defendant repeated his offer to go to joint counseling with Plaintiff, through Plaintiffs attorney, and Plaintiff declined.

Admit that Plaintiff was assured that the PC would advocate for Plaintiff as an inducement for Plaintiff to sign the PC Order.

Admit refusing to answer Defendants questions directly reiated to the minor child's well-being,  and safety.

Admit that the list of questions, attached as Exhibit X, were forwarded to Plaintiff through Defendants attorney, after Plaintiff complained about Defendant contacting her.

Admit that Plaintiff did not fuily respond to the questions.

Admit that copied her attorneys on her ìncomplete responses.

Admit that in Date Year, Plaintiff withheld information about the minor child's health and conditions at school and, after Defendant picked up minor child at school, Plaintiff exchanged emails with Defendant under false pretenses. 

Admit that on Date Year Plaintiff refused to pick up minor chiid when Defendant's car was in the garage, Exhibit 6.

Admit that Plaìntiff has refused Defendant's requests to take the minor child to have his eyeglasses repaired, and when Defendant attempted to, Plaintiff gave Defendant misinformation about the Optometrist, preventing Defendant from having the eyeglasses repaired. Exhibit 7.

Admit that that Defendant accepted custody of minor child from Date Year to Date Year when minor child was scheduled to be with Plaintiff, and Date Year, while Plaintiff took a persona! vacation and refused to tell Defendant where she was. Exhibit 8.

Regarding the allegation in Plaintiffs Motion For Contempt and Motion To Suspend Visitation and Motion For Mental Examination Of Defendant (Motion):

Admit that the minor child did not state to Plaintiff or any individual he was up all night

Admit that the minor child did not state to Plaintiff or any individual that he was practicing what to say

Admit that the minor child did not state to Piaintift or any individual that Defendant asked minor child for his baseball bat to use on the Plaintiff.

Admit that the minor child told Plaintiff that he slept through the night on Date Year

Admit that the minor child did not state to Plaintiff or any other individual he was afraid of Defendant as stated in paragraph XX of Plaintiffs Motion, except at the direction of Plaintiff.

Admit that Defendant expressed his emotional pain in the series of messages on Date Year, that he finaîly deduced Plaintiffs affair and Plaintiffs use of minor child in deception.

Admit that Pìaintiff did not deny the affair(s).

Admit that Defendant gave notice to Plaintiff that he was going to inform the minor child of his suspicions about Plaintiffs affair and Plaintiff did not respond to the notice.

Admit that Defendant informed Plaintiff that his sole purpose for telling the minor child of

Defendants suspicions was to allow the minor child to address the issue in therapy and heal the emotional and psychological damage caused by Plaintiffs involvement of the minor child.

Admit that the date and time of the Date Year emal referred to in paragraph 19 of Plaintiffs Motion is inconsistent with the timing of the allegations in paragraphs XX of Plaintiffs Motion.

Admit that Plaintiff did not tell the minor child's therapists, about her affair, or Plaintiffs involvement of the minor child in her affair, or her

current relationship and involvement of the minor child in her current relationship.

Admit that Defendant took minor child to plaintiff's residence on Date Time as required in the Visitation Order.

Admit that Defendant informed Plaintiff that he was going to walk the minor to the Plaìntiffs door prior to arriving.

Admit that Defendant left when Plaintiff refused to unlock the door for the minor

Admit that the Defendant turned to the minor child, said “I think you better go in,” and then the Defendant and the minor  hugged, and Defendant left.

Admit that Defendant has accompanied the minor child to the door of the

Admit that Defendant informed Plaintiff on Date Year that the minor child had left his cell phone at Defendants home.

Admit that Plaintiff did not respond to Defendant's notice about the phone.

Admit that Defendant delivered the cell phone to plaintiff's residence on Date Year by leaving it at the front door.

Admit that Defendant left a voicemail and sent a text message

Admit that Plaintiff has refused to discuss, with Defendant, what Child Therapist has told Plaintiff about minor child's therapy.

Admit that Defendant has met with Therapist muitipie times and has participated

Admit that Defendant met with Child Psychiatrist, at the request of Plaintiff

Admit that Plaintiff has not entered all of minor child's scheduled appointments

Admit that Defendant sent Piaintitf an apoiogy for the messages of Date Year through his attorney, stating, “And regardless of how I feel about what she has done, l apologize to her for my actions that day.

Admit that Defendant sent Plaintiff, through his attorney, an explanation of the fact that he had taken two prescription drugs on Date Year that caused his emotional outburst, stating, “I am not trying to make en excuse, but t know how to avoid another reaction, and at least I feel less confused about it, since I really dont remember sending ail of those messages. l do not went LnL to feel threatened, so I would appreciate you passing this on to her lawyer.” Exhibit XX.

Admit that on Date Year, Defendant had a similar emotional outburst reaction

Admit that Defendant contacted his physician, the following day, who modified the dose, and the emotional reaction did not

repeat.

Admit that Date Year, Defendant notified Plaintiff of his intent to take the week of Date Year, as a week of vacation with minor  as agreed to in

visitation order. Exhibit xx.

Admit that on Date Year, Defendant asked the Plaintiff to agree to rules to facilitate better, more frequent, and more genuine communication between the Plaintiff and Defendant and with the minor child, attached as Exhibit xx.

Admit that Plaìntiff, under false pretenses, pretended to be the minor chiid in text messages to Defendant, in order to obtain passwords to the computer Plaintiff took from Defendant surreptìtìousiy in Year Date.

Admit that on Date Year, Plaintiff, under false pretenses, Plaintiff allowed another person to pretend to be Plaintiff in an  exchange with Defendant, as described in request number X above.

Admit that on Date Year Plaintiff aliowed minor child to have a Skype Conversation with Defendant, but Plaintiff remained in the room, monitored the conversation, and exerted emotional and psychologìcal pressure on minor child to not communicate with Defendant and to end the conversation, which he did after a fake yawn and statement from the minor child the he was too “tired” at 7:00 pm.

Admit that prior to Date Year, and while married to Defendant, Plaìntiff had a romantic and sexual relationship with individual(s) not the Defendant.

Produce the name(s), addresss) and contact information, dates of contact and length of relationship for each.

Produce all electronic or other communications between the Plaintiff and individuals identified, including those related to funding and employment

Produce cell phone records for xxx-xxx-xxxx from Date Year to present,

Produce office phone records for same period.

Admit that on Date Year Plaintiff sent the email attached as Exhibit XX, to the Defendant foiiowing her work trip to State.

Admit that Plaintiff was in contact with persons identified in request number XX, above during that trip.

Admit that “doing the right thing” was to discuss Plaintiffs affair(s) and resolve the marriage and custody in an honest and cooperative way.

Admit that Plaintiff has taken minor chiid on trips and has allowed and encouraged contact with individuals named in request number XX above.

For each trip describe the lodging arrangements, including where minor child slept, where Plaintiff slept, and where indìviduals named above slept.

Provide the names of all individuals with knowledge of the arrangements in XX

Admit that Plaintiff has instructed minor child to lie and conceal his contact with individuals named in request number 21 above, to Defendant, his therapists, and others.

Admit that Defendant provided Plaintiff with full domestic and financial support at all times of the marriage, and that Plaintiff entered the marriage unemployed, with student loans, credit card loans, and a vehicle loan, which Defendant paid.

Admit that Plaintiff has been treated by physicians, psychologists, and psychiatrists for mental disorders, including depression, anger management, among others.

Produce dates, diagnoses, treatments, and medications for each treatment.

Admit that on Date Year, Defendant sent Plaintiff a message saying, "You are a liar and a cheat"

Admit that Plaintiff refused to Defendant to contact or see minor child

Admit that after receiving the message, Plaintiff surreptitìously took custody of minor child, went to the home and took personal items, and abandoned the home.

Oh, one other tidbit.  My previous T was involved in a custody case of her client, she used the section in The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists book where it talks about the effects of a narcissistic parent on a child to help explain to the judge why this is not good for the kiddo.  Her client did end up with sole custody. 

I don't know if that helps at all but wanted to pass that on. 

The "admit" questions are called Interrogatories.  The idea with an interrogatory is to find out what areas there are no arguments about.  For example, in an auto accident case, I might send a list of interrogatories that includes "Admit that Plaintiff was driving a blue Honda on July 11, 2013."  If you admit to that, then I don't have to prove it later on.  But some people misuse interrogatories to badger the other side.  There are two ways your lawyer can deal with them: (1) simply state admit or deny after each interrogatory; or (2) state that the interrogatory is irrelevant to the issue at hand and refuse to answer the irrelevant ones.  At least in my jurisdiction, a judge is never going to see the interrogs or the answers.

Good information - I never heard that!  Interrogatories in my case didn't take that "Admit that... . " form.

But... . shouldn't LnL's attorney have explained that?  If she isn't explaining basic stuff like this - it only took you a few short sentences to make it very clear! - what is she getting paid for?

Plaintiff has not offered any evidence that the minor child would be best served by her control.

In your motion for sole legal custody, what were your grounds?  What supporting documentation do you have?  And has he filed any interrogatories asking for said documentation?

Perhaps the response is that Defendant hasn't asked? Or if he has, refer to interrogatory response dated <insert date>? 

Or perhaps the answer is "see points 1 through X in my filing".

Or you could also just say "is there a question there?" and leave it at that.

In your posts, you seem super-concerned about what the other side will ask, and you want to be prepared to answer those hostile questions.  I think that's very smart, and maybe going through those here - name any question you hope he won't ask but you're concerned he might, and we can talk about ways to answer that - I think that kind of preparation is really smart and will have a big impact.

Plaintiff has repeatedly abducted the minor child and removed him from State in violation of the Court's orders, statutory authority, and criminal laws.

Plaintiff has a history of treatment for eating disorders, depression, drug and alcohol abuse, and anger management, all of which are implicated in her attempts to antagonize, control, and alienate Defendant and his relationship with the minor child.

Plaintiff has taken the minor child to mental health professionals without fully consulting or informing the Defendant, and then fabricated reasons and purposes after the fact.

Another thing you can do at the same time is to prepare your own message - what are the key points you want to make?  For example, if you know the court's main criteria for custody, maybe you can base your main points on those.

livednlearned,

Jeez, he seems to think you're a defendant in the infamous "Star Chamber" or something. 

How does he present in court during these hearings? Is he able to appear to be calm even when asking long strings of preposterous "questions" or does he become visibly agitated? (I'm kinda hoping it's the latter.)

"Be strong and of good courage. You are leader of your people now, Joshua... . I am with you wherever you go."

*I am an emotionally stable, loving, devoted mother

*I am S12's primary caregiver. He spends 96% of his time with me.

*I am an active advocate in S12's education

I also want to say:

*N/BPDx has serious problems with anger that severely impedes his ability to participate in decision-making with me

*This undermines my efforts to provide S12 with basic support and services for his educational needs

*N/BPDx has a pattern of using threats and intimidation for even minor issues involving S12,

*N/BPDx deliberately creates ambiguous situations so he can obstruct decision-making. For example, S12's psychiatrist was unable to tell if N/BPDx agreed to his son's dx, and therefore was reluctant to treat him. He voluntarily asked to change the temporary order to Skype with S12 3x a week, and then makes false allegations of alienation.

"Mr. Ex has a pattern of false accusations against Mother:

* In court on Date he stated 'Blah blah blah.', which is false and not supported by evidence.

* In Document X on page 3 he stated 'Blah blah blah.', which is false and not supported by evidence.

It is not in Child's interest to be alone with someone who is likely to make such false accusations against Child's mother.  We ask that Mr. Ex's time with Child be supervised by a professional, so the professional can make sure Child does not hear any false accusations made against Mother."

Man, I'm with whirlpoollife! I guess I'm seeing you also as Joan of Arc, headed in for a medieval "ordeal" type trial. You really are the leader of your people . . . .

Bon courage!

linking his behavior back to S12. I need to get that point across everything single time I speak.

I'll be wishing the best for you tomorrow.

As you've said, your lawyer is very, very good. She's now had a lot of experience with dealing with your ex. Trust in her.

Your judge has experienced your ex's behavior first-hand.

Those are big pluses for you.

As others have stated, I think the biggest thing is to focus on why you are going for full custody: you ex has been interfering with your life and your raising of your son. He's obstructing your ability to parent your son. Your judge has seen many examples of this.

I'll be supporting you tomorrow.

Yup, a really good idea - link everything to how it affects the child.

OK, now turn it around and write some positive stuff about your own parenting - what you're doing and what you want to do in the future - and how it helps S12.

(If you spend too much time on negative stuff about your ex, that won't look good.)

My son and I have a strong bond and I'm a loving, attentive parent. I'm the parent who takes him to church, who organizes his social calendar, who takes him to see a counselor, who meets with his teachers and the guidance counselor at school. He has a loving relationship with my family and sees them every year.

I actively seek support and services for my son, and look for solutions to make sure he succeeds in school. I have spent hundreds of hours since 2008 trying to figure out what works for him, how the process at school works, what the diagnoses mean, who has the skills to help him, both inside school and out. I set up meetings, initiate contact, and work to help him develop healthy habits and tools to help him succeed.

I believe a child should never, ever be put in the middle of a dispute between parents. I never speak ill of N/BPDx when I talk to S12. When N/BPDx shows up at events, I want S12 to avoid feeling a loyalty bind, so I tell him to go say hi to his father and tell him where I'll be when he's ready.

So now... . what are some questions that he might ask, that could be hard to handle?

He says I had an affair.

  (Whether true or not, is this even of any concern to the court? L may chime in, "Objection, relevance!"

He says I have lied about why I take S12 to psychologists and psychiatrists, and that I'm inventing these issues because I'm sick.

(L will object, he's not a medical doctor, he's not qualified and shouldn't speculate about conclusions.)

A lot of this is meant to condemn you.  Your lawyer will object to most of it if he tries it.  Let your lawyer guide you about the blaming, condemning questions.  If in doubt, watch your lawyer, have a signal where you know whether to proceed or not.

N/BPDx participates in the decision-making process, to S12's detriment. N/BPD's vendetta, his rage, and his poor judgement clouds his ability to focus on supporting S12, and as a result his involvement has had a negative effect on S12.

N/BPDx bullies, intimidates, and uses threats, just as he did with the PC, who just testified. It is not possible to make joint decisions with someone who cannot regulate his emotions and behavior, and this undermines doing what is best for S12.

N/BPDx does not have good judgement about what constitutes reasonable behavior, and does not take responsibility for his own decisions. He voluntary scrapped the 3x week Skype calls with S12, which the PC confirmed, and then makes false allegations that I am alienating S12 from his father. He also talks about those false allegations with S12. 

It isn't the questions that will be hard to handle, it's knowing that he will be tricky in how he asks them. And I'm not sure how he'll do that, exactly, just that he will do it. He is going to get me to admit to the following:

He says I am alienating S12 from him.

He says I had an affair.

He says I was treated for depression, anger issues, eating disorders, and drug and alcohol abuse

He says I have lied about why I take S12 to psychologists and psychiatrists, and that I'm inventing these issues because I'm sick.

He says I abducted S12 repeatedly.

Sorry for the short post -- I'm exhausted, but will post more later.

Sole legal custody!

Where's the emoticon for weeping joy?

And he pays my legal fees back all the way back to last summer.

And in the new visitation schedule, S12 is with me every other weekend. N/BPDx didn't even ask for make-up time, so S12 will now spend 16 hours a month total with his dad.

Only friends here can imagine how this feels   Thank you everyone, I thought so much about everything you said and really needed your support.  

Did ex cross examine the PC?  Good that he showed his true colors to her, sounds like he did ping her a lot compared to your careful consideration of when to contact her.

So one lesson here is that if the other party has some psychological disorder, like BPD or NPD, when he is put under stress - as your ex certainly was at the trial - their ugly side will show.

In some cases, we can find a way to make that happen earlier in the process, like depositions or hearings, which might be cheaper than going all the way to trial.

First, I am soo thrilled for you winning sole legal custody, which is something I submitted for in my parenting plan, because I can tell I need it for D3's sake, yet will probably take time to achieve because it is just so common for all cases to be given joint legal here in PA.

  I need to pick your brain so much in order to help me with this. 

I really connected with you on your feeling that "Maybe I'll actually feel divorced when all of this is over"!  He has been moved out for 4 months, now, yet I am still looking over my shoulder, and get nervous/anxious everytime I see his name in my email inbox or on a text message!

I also am anticipating all the crap he is going to try to "prove" about me in court that just isn't true.

Did you do custody evaluations?  I am just starting the process, and would like as much advice on them as possible :)

Again, congratulations on keeping your chin held high through all of the heartache and turmoil, and achieving for your S12 the very best care that he deserves (from you, of course!) :)