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After an 8 yr relationship my husband and I are officially on the edge of breaking up.  We've never been here before... . I was always the rock.  No matter how mad he treated me I was here to be his soulmate and take on the world with him.  

Well since March, I realized that my life was flushing down the toilet... . since my son was born in Feb 2012 I realized the pure insanity of my life (verbal abuse, physical threats, a husband who can't hold down a job, an emotional rollercoaster at home).  I played into every bit of this.  I enabled him to be as bad as he is.  It was like I was dealing with a spoiled child and I kept giving him more and more... .  You want to move to a new country OK, you want a sports car OK, you want new toys OK, you want to throw a tantrum about how toasted the bread in your sandwich is OK.  You want your sandwich cut exactly the same each time.  OK.  Then in March I woke up and started living for myself.  First it started with long overdue trips to see family... . I had been waiting on him to come with me.  Then starting to make plans with friends, opening up with people around me... .  family, friends.  Then boundaries to stop the abuse... .

He needs professional help.  He's at the bottom of a hole and refuses to climb out.  

Which brings me to yesterday... . I always think my anniversary is on the 19th when its really on the 18th and I did the same thing again this year.  Planned dinner for today.  Got a card and left it at work.  Normally I wouldn't have any plans but I did for once.  I had plans to go to a friend's to watch a movie.  He reminded me late in the day that our anniversary was actually the 18th not the 19th.  I asked him if he'd mind me going to the friends and doing the anniversary plans on the 19th.  He said GO.  

I still went but I am paying the price now.  This morning he was throwing everything in creation... . glasses, breakfast, slamming doors... .  Calling me every name in creation.  None of the flying objects came in my direction.  He learned that lesson at least.  Saying any other woman in the world would have cancelled her plans last night and how he regrets ever marrying me and how all I do for him is make him lunch every day and he should just get rid of me.  Forget the fact that I work a not-so-easy job to support him.  He gets everything in the world from me and he really thinks he's got a horrible lot in life and that I am part of the driver.

See I love this man, but I am at the end of my rope.  I have never ever in my life met someone who is so ungrateful.  Maybe if he wasn't such a jerk to me... . I would have cancelled my plans last night to spend them with my loving husband but I could tell that he was in a mood... . like clockwork... . once a week... . and I so rarely get out.  F him.  He's ruined so many holidays (like the Christmas  he caved in the refrigerator door because he was angry that the 'right' food wasn't in there... . and he broke his toe and his foot... . and refused to eat the prime rib dinner that I had spent hours cooking)... . I had to duct tape the fridge door shut and go buy another fridge after the holidays... . no surprise I am resentful.  

Serves him right.  I feel guilty but not that guilty because if it wasn't something real he would have made up something imaginary.  This morning I told him quietly to stop calling me names and stop taking his s out on me.  He got really upset and said he wasn't going to work and went to the bedroom and slammed the door.  Then 5 seconds later came out and said WHAT I DON'T EVEN GET COFFEE and ran out the door to work.

I pretty sure that I am not going to stay married and I am pretty sure that I will have a better life without him (as much as it breaks my heart).  We have a family trip next week and I'm not even sure that he'll go.  Its to an amazing resort in the Caribbean.  We're such lucky people.  How can he not see that? I know, I know its the illness... .  We just bought a boat.  I'll definitely go enjoy it without him.  I'm so deviant.  I still care, but all that caring hasn't gotten me anywhere.  

He says he doesn't want to go to the planned anniversary celebration tonight because I couldn't bother to get it on the right night.  I'll go and have a nice dinner any way.  

I never would have acted this selfishly before... . just can't help it.  Starting to see that I am entitled to a better life.  

Think I better go check out the therapeutic separation article again.

Hey Alli!

There's no doubt that you are under a great deal of stress dealing with the BPD behaviors, and of course, you should not have to tolerate the rages. That's a whole separate issue unto itself, and of course, if you both choose to work it out, you know what you have to do regarding the use of tools.

The anniversary however, IMHO is another story. I have to say that if my spouse had forgotten our anniversary, I would have been deeply hurt. If you do this every year, and feel bad about it, I would think that you could find a way to remind yourself of the actual date. In addition, you left to be with friends, even after he reminded you of the date, which adds insult to injury. Speaking frankly here friend, BPD or not, I cannot blame him for being upset. That does not excuse his behavior, there's no excuse for that! I just hope you can step back, and be objective about how this situation could create hurt feelings.

None of us is perfect! The BPD behaviors have pushed many of us to do things totally out of character. The thing is, we as the healthier of the 2 partners have to be able to take responsibility for our actions, and own up to mistakes when we feel we have made them. You may not agree with me, and that's alright, I'm just trying to give you a viewpoint from an objective staNPDoint!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Hi Val78,

I agree with you.  It was inexcusable that I mixed up our anniversary again. In past years, I figured it out and corrected plans so that he didn't even notice that I had forgotten the date.

I didn't cancel my plans with friends because I could tell in his voice that he wasn't going to act like a non abusive spouse last night and I just couldn't take the weekly dyregulation.  Even if I had stayed... . he would have dragged me through the mud over and over and I just couldn't put myself through it. Hell he drags me through the mud for made up reasons... .   I suppose I felt like being his own self-fulfilling prophecy last night "you always say I am so selfish and uncaring -- well here is what selfish and uncaring really looks like."  Maybe conscientiously passive aggressive... . pushing him out the door.     

I have literally never done anything like this before.  Normally I am the one with the cards, and the presents and the planned events... . but I am resentful today of being the person that does it on my own.  I am resentful that he got crazy on our son's first birthday because I only had 1 present and didn't throw a huge party.  I am resentful that I always have to pull the weight in our relationship.  I am resentful that without any provocation I get abused.  I am resentful that my safety and well being gets threatened on a regular basis and I am the rational and loving one and I still get criticized for not caring enough or doing enough.

I don't fault him for being upset... . I just can't bring myself to care enough about that right now... . because he doesn't care enough about his family to do pretty much anything.  And that is how I feel.  Tired of being the angel all the time.  Tired of pulling the weight of the family (which I know as the healthy spouse... . you have to do).  Tired to trying to explain to our baby when daddy ignores him for 2-3 days in a row.  A gentle little spirit who truly cannot understand why daddy is doing this. 

I think that this is my sign that its time to separate... . when you can't carry the load anymore.

I see what a whiner I sound like.  I'm just so tired and I had everything planned for today and got him the boat that he really wanted... . it seems like I could get some partial credit? 

Expectations lead to future resentments! 

So I already apologized. I'll probably just give him space and then go on vacation (assuming that he goes) and then we'll work on the future when we get back.  I think that the best bet would be to separate for a while to give both of us some breathing room.

Hey Alli!

Kudos to you for acknowledging your part in the latest situation! It's hard to look at ourselves with a critical eye, and admit to our mistakes. If you have admitted that to him, and have made a sincere apology, forgive yourself, and move on. Of course that means that you have to be sincere, which given your present state of mind, may be very difficult! Do your best though, and do it for you, because you know it's the right thing to do. How ever he reacts after that is out of your control.

I don't think you sound like a whiner at all. It sounds like you are reaching the end of your rope. You know how to use the tools, or perhaps you need a review. In your current state of mind, maybe you should read up on the wise mind workshop. You have to get yourself in a better place before you can be an effective emotional leader. It's a tall order, and an impossible task unless you are taking care of your own emotional state!

Can you create some quiet time for yourself, to reflect on the whole situation and to formulate a game plan to improve things before they get worse?

Best Wishes,

Val78

I think you are just at the end of your rope in this relationship... . to the point where you could have changed your plans, but thought, "f-it, I'm sick of him and how he treats me".

Yes, he does have a reason to be upset, but I know where you're at. Sometimes we get to the point where we don't care if they get hurt after all they have put us through, even if we actually are the cause of that hurt.

You did the right thing by apologizing to him and now sit back and really figure out which way you are going to go, like you said, give yourself some breathing room. Take the vacation and see how you feel when he get back.  

HI!

Please don't throw yourself under the bus on this one! 

I, like you, have a tendency to get dates confused.  Given the stress you have been under, I can see why this could happen. 

I don't think you did anything terrible.  Truly, you are taking care of yourself and it may seem "selfish" but to me it's self-preservation.  I think there comes a point when you just have to do what is best for you so you can stay sane and be there for your little boy.

I am just curious, but why is it expected that you make the plans, it's all up to you, but it's your "marriage" anniversary and should be reciprocal.  Did he do anything special for you? 

I'm sorry, but I don't think he gets a free pass because he has BPD.  I am so tired of all the terrible behavior just being "normalized" as, well that's just the BPD.

I don't think you sound like a whiner.  It sounds like you are a human being whose limits have been reached.

By the way, your vacation sounds wonderful.  Would you consider going with your son by yourself even if he doesn't go?  Or could someone take his place?  You should be able to enjoy this wonderful thing you are able to give yourself.

Sorry Val78, but your response ticked me off.  Don't take it personally, I know nothing about you.  But I am about 9 years farther into my marriage with a man who is classic BPD but who has refused over and over to get counseling or get help for his outbursts. Being married to someone like this is emotionally draining, to say the least. 

My husband has pulled the same kinds of things.  One year I didn't get him anything for his birthday but bought one of my kids a new lego set and he freaked out.  He accused me of "not caring" enough about him to acknowledge his birthday.  No matter that he hadn't gotten me a birthday present. And, add to it that every time I have ever bought him a gift for Christmas/birthday/anniversary, he has either never used it or returned it.

It takes an unfair amount of work by the non BPD spouse to try to keep the BPD spouse happy.  But the problem is, at least in my case, the BPD spouse is not capable of ever being happy.   

I would have done the same thing as allibaba and apologized for forgetting the anniversary and going out with friends, at least acknowledging that it probably really upset him.  I'm willing to bet that her husband never apologized for the smashed in fridge door or for the tantrum he threw about the situation.  Totally guessing based on my personal experiences, but when something like this happens in my house, my husband never apologizes for his completely outrageous behavior. 

Allibaba... . hope everything is going OK for you.  My husband is always breaking things when he gets mad.  Sometimes the things are very expensive.  For the first several years of our marriage I used to "clean up" his messes, so to speak.  Now if he breaks something I let it sit until he deals with it.  He put a 6-inch hole in the wall of our house because he threw a huge box at it.  That hole sat there for 2 months before he finally fixed it because we were having friends over and he was embarrassed/not wanting to have to explain to anyone why there was a huge hole in the wall.  There is a big dent on our refrigerator door that's been there for about 4 months now.  I was going to try and figure out how to fix it, but decided that I want him to have to look at it every time he gets in the fridge he has to look at it.  He put that dent in the fridge because a container of yogurt fell out and spilled on the floor while he was also mad at one of the kids for something.  He punched the door causing the dent... . my kids saw it happen.  I also left it there to remind ME every day that despite the fact that there ARE good days... . the dents/damages are left behind and really don't go away.

Anyway... . I know how you feel. It's exhausting.  Hope you are doing ok.

Thanks 4now,

I just saw your message and literally started bawling my eyes out.  I'm so tired and I was really just trying to take care of myself... .  no matter how awful I seem to him.  When I am sweet, I am also perceived as awful so what incentive do I have other than just regular morals and values?

I'm not sure why I am expected to do everything.  In the 4 years, we have been married he's never done more than buy me a card.  Yesterday he bought me a card.  I always plan the dinners and the trips.  I guess that I took this on myself and that is normal in my life.  I do all the planning and also get all the blame if anything goes wrong.

He says that he's not going on the trip and that he'll call and cancel buying the boat.  I'm ok with both.  I would most certainly go on the vacation without him.  I will go without him if he decides not to go.  No question about that.  I told him to cancel his own boat :)  He says that he's not going to our anniversary dinner... .  and once again I will go alone if I have to.  Now he just sent me a message that he is out finding our dog a home.  I gave him what he wanted (a reaction) and sent him a message asking him to please not give my dog away.  He's not... .  he's just trying to play mind games with me.

I have spoken to our doctor about him a number of times.  I have scheduled an appt with her for him to go over his gluten test results with her but she's going to try to get him to talk about his anxiety issues.  She's on board to try to get him to open up... .  all involved believe that at a minimum they should try medications. 

nevaeh,

I totally get Val78's comments.  For a relationship with a BPD to be successful we have to rise above it... .  its the only way.  But being really, really drained its hard... .  and its not reasonable to have to carry all the weight.  I do get both sides of it.  She's trying to see it through his eyes.  Thank you for your support too... .  ITS SO VALUABLE!  And it makes me feel not alone!

So, here's the thing,

Your normal imperfections will be magnified to "end of the world" proportions. Can you live with that Allibaba?

If you have forgotten what you have been through in the last couple of weeks, go read your old posts.  :)o that old technique of pretending your postings are by a stranger, what would your advice to that stranger be? It is clear from your posts you are a well-meaning person, give yourself your best advice.

Go on that vacation... . I need one myself. :)

I know in my heart that things can't go on like they are.  I have known that since all of my stuff ended up in trash bags at the end of the driveway and he locked me out of the house a few weeks back.

I'm really sorry Allibaba, really.

Your act of hope, loving him, knowing the risks and going forward,

it is a special thing.  It is a glorious thing to hope and love that much.

Makes me proud to be a human being on the same planet with you.

It is also okay to walk away, for your son's sake and for your own.

It is also okay to save yourself.

Uh oh.  Here come those stupid tears again.



Thanks for affirming that its noble and not just stupid to put the effort in.

Thank you for also affirming that its ok to let go.

I have a funny feeling that he's disconnected the garage doors again and blocked my access to the garage with the generator.  I had made up my mind that if he did that... . then I'm done.  Just about to leave work to go home.  Planning on taking our 18 month old son to our anniversary dinner alone if I have to

I have a similar reaction--why was HE planning for the 18th?

The situation feels like he was looking for a reason to be mad, not that the anniversary was special to him & Allibaba ruined it.

Frankly, you probably gave him the bestanniversary present: a non-imagined basis to be angry.  As Cyril says in Breaking Away: "Maybe I will take those college admissions tests. My dad's birthday's coming up."  (His dad constantly expects him to fail so that he can "understand".

I've been right where you are.  For many, many years I have rationalized and excused his behavior. My mantra for the past several years has been "he loves me the best that he knows how... . and that has to be enough to get through it". 

Patientandclear stated that it felt like he was looking for a reason to be mad not that the anniversary was special to him. 

Hoping4hope stated that

"Your act of hope, loving him, knowing the risks and going forward,

it is a special thing.  It is a glorious thing to hope and love that much.

Makes me proud to be a human being on the same planet with you.

It is also okay to walk away, for your son's sake and for your own.

It is also okay to save yourself."

I have been married for 18 years and with my husband for a total of 23. I pray that this works out for you.  Your son is only 18 months old.  That brings a whole other level of complexity to the situation and believe me, I get that!  You made a promise when you got married to stay together for better or worse, and you are holding up your end of the bargain. 

I hope I don't sound too critical of the situation.  I can just tell you my own experience and how after this many years I don't have any "try" left.  I tried really hard to accept my husband as he was, I have tried to keep my anger in check when he lashes out... . the only times that doesn't work is when he goes after our 12 year old son.  H started using middle son as his "punching bag", so to speak, when he was about 4 or 5.  H is emotionally abusive with that son (we actually have 3 kids - two are very easy going, middle son is very difficult to manage).  It goes in cycles but when H is in a bad mood, middle son is the one who seems to get the brunt.  H has, a few times, crossed a line to what I would call physical abuse a few times with my son and there is no amount of fear that would keep me from protecting my son and H knows that.  Last time it happened a few months ago I told him that I would not allow him to harm my child and he said he would do what he wanted... . to which I replied that if it happened again I was taking the kids and leaving.  Mind you, these were things screamed at each other. 

Sorry for the tangent... . when I read your post it reminded me of how I felt several years ago.  I hope your husband doesn't ever take his anger/aggressions out on your son, but prepare yourself that it could happen.  It is very hard being married to someone who has BPD. My H won't admit that he has any emotional issues, and refuses to go to counseling.  He actually did go to a few sessions a couple of years ago when I told him I wanted a divorce.  He was desperately trying to hold on to me and unfortunately it worked and we are still together.

You mention that you are on your way home from work... . I wonder how many days you wonder while you are driving home whether he will be in a good mood or a bad mood?  You will learn to identify triggers (I'm sure you've already identified some) that put him over the edge.  If you are like me, you obsess about eliminating those triggers to try and avoid the rages.  It's a horrible way to live because you can't control everything around you.  You especially can't control your kids and what they do or don't do, say or don't say.  The kids (especially middle son) are a huge trigger for my H and that is really really hard to deal with!  Kids don't really respect or like their dad for that reason.  I have a 15yo daughter and a 8yo son as well.  We are so happy when it is just the four of us hanging out.  When H is around it is just stressful and everyone is always on edge not knowing when dad is going to freak out about something.

Not trying to hijack your post, just sharing what your life might look like a few years down the road.

Hope your weekend goes OK.

nevaeh... .  I just wanted to echo everything you said.  I've been married for 28 years with 3 children.  Everything you say is right on the money.  I am so amazed at how someone I don't even know can write my life story.  :'(

Every single one of us has the power to change our lives and circumstances!  We are not held captive by BPD behaviors or love or anything else in a chosen relationship.  We are bound by our own fears.

When we don't like something, we can try something different.  If we don't change our own ways of thinking and behaviors, how can we possibly expect other people to change? 

I think you have done amazing things and have tried so very, very hard.

I have thought about you and your situation and wished I could have more patience and steadfastness like you do.

You mentioned that for these rs to work we have to be the one to rise above.  Yes, that does seem to be the way it needs to work, for us to keep the peace and be the emotional leaders.  I have proven this point many times recently when I just couldn't or wouldn't hold it together.  It is too much pressure.  We are not super humans and we really can't take it all on ourselves.  I have noticed that when I don't hold it all together, that's when it all goes south.  And it goes there  quickly.  I just think this is another form of walking on egg shells.  We need to be able to make mistakes, express opinions and emotions because we are HUMAN.

I have been thinking how wonderful this board is, this whole forum. But it can be somewhat of a double edged sword.  We need to find people who identify with that we are going through and who have been there, too. Because most people don't get it.  But there comes a point when the behavior all becomes normalized.  It's not shocking and it should shock the hell out of us.  I try and remind myself what things would be like in a "normal" rs.  It's not so that I can feel badly for not having that rs, but it reminds me that this behavior is way off the charts and I really don't have to live with it.

No one thinks it's stupid to hang in there.  I get it, boy do I get it.  I am still hanging in there, but not like I was before.  The one thing I can tell you, which you probably already know, is that your strength will come in increments and when you need the strength to do what you need to do, you will have it. 

I have faith in you!

This time he cut power to the garage rooms with the breaker panel in the basement.  He didn't barricade the door though so it was easy to get in.  I didn't go to the dinner I had planned.  I knew that he wasn't going to go and I actually went so far as to get dressed and leave the house but decided that I didn't have the desire to go to dinner on my own... . so I came back and cooked dinner.

Checked the messages on his phone and he's been sending people messages that he's getting divorced and moving to costa rica.  Glad that he bothered to share with me.

Oh boy are these things tiring.  My patience is running out.

Thank you ladies for your stories.  They mean a lot to mean.  I hope that they motivate me to act while my son is young enough not to be seriously effected by his dad's behavior.

Have a good night all!

This morning when I was making him breakfast he was throwing water bottles and slamming doors.

I stopped and walked out of the room and he said RUN AWAY LITTLE FRIGHTENED MOUSE.

It turns out that he works all weekend this weekend (makes sense he fell into a permanent bad mood on Thursday)... . follows his pattern.

He left the house this morning telling me stories of what the fencing contractor needs me to do before the sun comes up this morning (its 5:20)... . I have no idea how to do it... . and I have no idea if I am even supposed to.  The last 24 hrs have been story after story of why things I do are messed up.

He screamed as he was leaving out of the door this morning

YOU ARE MY BIGGEST REGRET.  I SHOULD HAVE NEVER MARRIED YOU.

Nice way to start a morning.  HUH

So what's the plan.  Get through today.  Pack for vacation.  He may come.  He may not.  Go on vacation with or without him.  Worry about how to get myself extricated from this hell after vacation.  The sad part is that there is absolutely no reason for me to stick around other than my messed up loyalty.  No money reasons, not even any logistical reasons.  I really do believe that we require a therapeutic separation.

I had to take our 4 dogs to the vet this morning for vaccinations in preparation for our upcoming trip.  He got home from work while I was out and said where is dog x, I didnt give you permission to move him.  I said we're all at the vet but we'll be home in 30 min.

Dog x is the dog that he's been threatening to get rid of.  He said "he better be home in 10 min or you will regret it".  I told him I was already in the office and couldnt leave.  He said "you'll be sorry ahout that."

I came home and he's smashed all of my hanging flowers and ripped out all my herbs.

He said "now maybe you'll understand feeling disrespected and ignored like I do."

Obviously I am devastated.

 

Hi,

Sorry things continue to go so badly.  He is escalating once again, and is trying his darnedest to get you riled.  This is what happened before, isn't it?  He is losing control over you, as he sees it, he doesn't get the reaction from you he is hoping for.  But this situation is damned if you do, damned if you don't.  If he gets you to blow, he will be vindicated and can be even nastier back.  If you keep your cool (which you have been doing remarkably well) he will call you a "mouse." So what's a girl to do? 

I believe this is all a very sophisticated distancing technique.  If he treats you badly enough, maybe you will be done with him.  How could anyone love him when he is being so nasty? But on the flip side of that coin, he probably has no respect for someone who won't stand up to him. I believe a lot of this behavior is compulsive and he probably has very little control over it.  Regardless, it needs to stop. 

What is going on right now reminds me of perhaps the worst series of events I experienced with my uBPDh.  It was about two years ago, ironically we had been married for eight years.  Maybe it has something to do with that.  He treated me badly, said nasty things, acted like he hated me, I don't even remember all of it.  Probably blocked it out.  This went on for a while.  Then finally I grew a backbone and just started to ignore the behavior.  I didn't have to listen to it, I didn't have to believe it. When he saw it didn't bother me, he quit the verbal abuse.  He still has episodes, often, but they don't reach this level.  I think he learned that if he left me once more, that would be it.  (The last time he wanted a separation, I let him go, and he had to ask me to come back.  I don't think he wants to do that again!)

Perhaps your h needs to see what it will be like not to have you in his life.  Not to be in his house with his son every day.  Then maybe he will see you are not the source of all his problems. 

I wish there were an easier way, but I am a firm believer in "you choose the behavior, you choose the consequence."  He may not understand and be able to predict the consequence, but he can sure connect the dots once he's living it. 

It might be good if he doesn't go on the vacation so you can get some distance and perhaps clarity. 

Sorry about your plants---so immature. You deserve more out of life!

Get to a safe place. By your description he does not sound rational. He sounds like he is trying to drive you away. Don't test how far he will go.

Allibaba, seriously... .   What are you going to do?  He's acting up like crazy.  Smashing your flowers and ripping out herbs now?  Because you took the dogs in for vaccinations.  Throwing water bottles earlier, slamming doors, screaming and telling people he's moving to Costa Rica... .

Are you still considering going on vacation with him?  What about the dogs?  Can you kennel them for the time being or have a friend watch them? 

Are you concerned about your safety?

This is not a cool situation... .  

If you want to stick it out longer with your husband, it's your business.  I don't think it's fair to subject your son and dogs to his erratic ridiculous behavior for one more minute.  They need someone to protect them.

You're devastated.  What are you going to do about that? 

This is an odd choice of words... . Didn't give you permission to move him?  Move him from where?

He told me first thing in the morning to put dog x on the back porch.  I told him that I was in the middle of something and he'd better do it himself.  I guess he considered the instruction a mandate to make him stay on the back porch all day (its not much of a punishment) that is dog x's favorite spot.  In his head, he's having some sort of odd power struggle with me but I am not playing into it.  I won't drop everything and do what he asks just because he's in a mood. 

Thank you all for your continued support.  You are my conscious right now... .   keeping me honest.  Whenever he is triggered, he's escalating to an unacceptable level.  The more and more I think about it - we need to separate.  He's calm again today.  I wouldn't say happy, but he's definitely calm.  The dogs go into the kennel today for a week +... .   oddly I am sure that my husband can control his behavior because our son and even the dogs aren't seeing his mania (just me).  He is making a very concerted effort to drive me away and let me tell you ITS WORKING.  There is certainly a limit to how much I will take.  I left my hanging flower baskets (that have been smashed to pieces) on the front porch hanging there for the world to see.  I left the herbs that were ripped out of their pots on the back deck.  A neighbor is coming to water the flowers while I am gone (is it 'we' are gone?) and I'm leaving the destruction there for her to see.  If he ever comes back and tries to lie about what's going on... . I have a witness.

And yes, I've been recording some of the ranting and raving.  Though in my heart of hearts, I want to see my husband get help... . I'm preparing for a vicious battle that I hope never to have.  The odd part is that my husband will literally have nothing without me.  I'm his financial support and the jurisdiction where I live HEAVILY favors woman (especially with children).  Without my salary and assets (which I kept in trust completely separate from him) he  could barely afford an apartment.  He truly is in complete self destruct mode.  He sent me a message yesterday which was really odd and I think may be a clue to what is going on inside of him.

My husband suffers from PTSD from being charged and going through a trial for something really horrendous.  He was certainly falsely accused.  The woman that accused him couldn't even get the most basic facts of her story straight.  She was trying to cover up an affair that happened after he got divorced and she was still married. 

She made the first allegation 5 yrs after the incident allegedly happened.  After months and months of waiting for a trial, the woman (the sole witness) finally admitted that she lied (on the stand).  She was eventually convicted of 20 counts of fraud (unrelated) and was sent to prison.  My husband's only fault in that situation was affiliating with the wrong person.  He was never arrested or in prison and he was never even questioned about the alleged crime (bizarre and I was there for the whole situation) but the entire experience was devastating for him.  He lost his reputation.  He had trouble keeping a job.  Even his family looked at him differently.  The woman actually stalked me for a while... . (charming I know).   She was why we picked up and moved countries.  We would show up in restaurants and she would follow us there and then call the police to say that he was stalking her. 

Anyway yesterday:  he sent me a message that said "I should have just pleaded guilty and gone to prison for something that I didn't do."  After all these years, I think the PTSD is behind this.  He went to therapy for about 3 yrs but the therapist was a JOKE.  He even told the therapist that he thought that he had BPD (came to it by researching it himself) and the guy said... . "Nah you are just depressed."  The guy was a JOKE.  Before he was found innocent, I never saw any of this BPD behavior (though I am sure the BPD thinking was already there).  We had been together for a few years... . certainly long enough to have seen the behavior.  He was a successful professional making 3x the money I did (and I am also a high earning professional.  He had joint custody of his daughters from a previous marriage and was a really good father.

I have a therapist who specializes in BPD and PTSD and NPD on call and ready to step in.  I think that the only way he'll get help is if we do a therapeutic separation and he no longer has me available to vent on and blame.

I know none of the background makes his behavior acceptable, but perhaps it will help you to understand why I have been so loyal.  We've gotten through so much together... . and he is an amazing man.  I was truly proud of how he handled the trial.  He was his own witness and he was calm, intelligent and well educated because he was fighting for his life!  From the bottom of my heart, I know he can get through this.

And in case you're thinking that he may have committed the crime (since I know he demonstrated some truly crazy behaviors in my posts), he had actually had knee surgery the week before the crime supposedly happened.  Even the woman's own doctor said that he couldn't possibly injured her in the way that she said he did.  My husband had quickly realized that the woman was crazy and had ended the relationship with her.  She and he weren't even in contact at the time and he didn't see any reason for telling her that he was having knee surgery (thank god for small miracles).

It was lucky because she claimed she never had a relationship with him (which my husband was able to disprove because he kept some of their email exchanges)... . and he had documentation that he had just had serious knee surgery.  He was actually on crutches.  

He was charged without being arrested or interviewed because his brother is a high ranking police officer and she claimed that he wasn't charged because of his brother.  The attorney general had a knee jerk reaction and charged him to keep their name clean.

Again none of this excuses his current behavior, but thought it would be good background since it was the driver behind why his life fell apart.  His ex-wife was able to leave the jurisdiction shortly after the trial and since we spent almost $100K on legal fees... . he didn't have the money to fight it.  She was behind him being charged somehow because when he was charged his ex-wife showed up in court holding hands with the woman who had made the accusations.  As a result of the whole thing, he basically lost his daughters (the worst pain for a BPD... .  perceived abandonment).  His ex-wife is NPD and has since been married and divorced 4x.  So my husband has poor taste in women (not sure what that says about me).

The irony is that now he's got a wonderful life and he's self destructing it!  I say that he's got a wonderful life but he's got anxiety and depression because he's fallen so far... . and he hates the fact that I support him.  It bruises his ego badly.

I completely understand the loyalty issue and your need to protect and stay with him. We all stay and put up with way too much, but my biggest concern for you right now is the violence he is showing when he gets upset with you. Has he always been like that or is the violence something new? If it is new, then I worry that the the violence will eventually be directed at you instead of just your possessions. Maybe a break would be the best thing for you right now.

Allibaba, what happened with he and his ex and this other woman in the past, is in the past.  This is the way he's behaving now, with you... .  with your child and dogs.  Perhaps you're getting the brunt of his mania, all in all though, everyone suffers because of it.  PTSD, BPD, NPD... . none of that matters right now.  His behavior is disturbing.  

You can still be proud of how he handled himself in the past during his trial, while protecting yourself in the present and future.  I don't know if this is how that whole dramatic/traumatic time felt to you, but it sounds like it was you and him against the world!  Stand by your man, type of thing.

This is now.  What he's showing you is who he is now, today.  He's escalating and into what, is anybody's guess.  No amount of boats, vacations, on-call BPD therapists, leaving smashed up planters or shriveling herbs laying around is going to change him.  He has to want to change and by sticking around you're telling him he doesn't really need to.

He needs serious help.  Help that's being hindered when he has free reign to run roughshod over his kingdom.  

As I've said, you are not the only one taking the brunt of his wrath.  Everyone suffers.  

What is your biggest fear?

Think about F.O.G.  Without those components, what's your relationship made of?  

Be safe  

4Now says... . "We are not super humans and we really can't take it all on ourselves.  I have noticed that when I don't hold it all together, that's when it all goes south.  And it goes there  quickly.  I just think this is another form of walking on egg shells.  We need to be able to make mistakes, express opinions and emotions because we are HUMAN."

That is SOO true! I can't speak for others by as the spouse of someone like this you are simply not allowed to make mistakes.  You have to be "on" all the time.  You have to be calm.  You have to be aware of everything going on around you to try and eliminate triggers.  I can't really discipline my kids (12-yo son in particular) when H is around because he butts in and takes over and it gets ugly really fast.  You can't confide in your spouse about your frustrations and fears.  I have really stopped talking to my H about pretty much everything.  Sometimes the most innocent conversation can turn into him basically yelling at me and telling me I'm stupid.

Friday night, in fact, H had called me while I was at work and asked if I wanted to go out for dinner with him and the kids.  Great, sounds like fun... . read, H is in a good mood so it will be a good evening.  Got home and daughter needed a ride to her friend's house and I was invited in for a quick margarita.  Went in, texted H to tell him I would be there for about 15 minutes (he was getting ready to go, taking shower, etc).  I lost track of time because I was talking and I ended up being there for about 45 minutes.  No calls or texts from him telling me he was ready to go, so I figured it wasn't a huge deal.  Wrong.  I get home and he is pissed.  No more dinner out because I took too long.  Pretty soon everything on the kitchen counter was on the floor, in addition to several things out of the freezer.  I did my best to stay calm and I apologized at least 20 times and said we could still go.  No, we couldn't still go because now he was mad and didn't want to be anywhere near me.  It was escalating quickly so I told the boys to go to the car because I needed to get out of there.  As we were backing out of the garage, H went right behind the car to stop me, opened my car door and started screaming at me.  He thought I was taking the boys out to dinner... . I told him I was leaving because I knew things were going nowhere good and I didn't want them to have to witness it yet again.  I then went inside and we proceeded to have a screaming match because I lost control.  I wish I would have just left and not allow myself to engage in the argument but it is what it is.

I should add that my youngest son called me and asked me when I was coming home.  Although he didn't say it, he knew H was getting mad.  When I left with the boys, my 12 yo son said that H got mad and called my little one a f**ing helicopter (to his face) for calling me.  H told me he didn't want to "nag" me and that's why he didn't call or text.  Imagine an 8 yo being called that by his father.  Great example that man is... .

He moped around all weekend.  I didn't know if he was still mad at me or if he was mad at himself - on any given day these are the two options, so I'm afraid to engage him in a conversation about it for fear that I will be dumped on again.  It is such an unhealthy relationship and it makes me so sad.  What's even more sad is that I don't even know what a healthy relationship even FEELS like. 

Allibaba... . I so completely understand what you are going through with him acting out and throwing things, etc.  Your H's behavior is very concerning.  You mentioned going on vacation without him... . not sure about you but that is something I have always wanted to do but the fear of even ASKING to take a vacation with just the kids and not him is anxiety provoking.  He can't stand to be left out, yet when he goes with us he is a jackass the entire time, unable to have any fun and making the rest of us miserable.  I can understand your indecision about what to do with the whole vacation thing.  I also understand your concerns about custody.  I have wanted to leave my H so many times over the years but I didn't, because I didn't want them to spend any time alone with him during visitation times, even though I would fight very hard for weekend only visitations.  Now my kids are old enough that I don't worry about them as much.  If things were to get too bad I know they would tell me and I could deal with it from there.

I am scared for your safety, yet I'm sure you feel "safe" because he has never harmed you, you've seen his rants and in some strange way know the cycle.  You hang on for the good/calm days, knowing they will certainly come.  I will tell you that H and I have had some pretty bad fights.  Mostly screaming and swearing at each other but he has physically pushed me a few times (and knocked me down).  I have responded each time with a physical response to him... . probably not the best idea, but I refuse to let him know that I am intimidated by him.  During our fight on Friday night when I told him I was sick of him throwing things around and breaking things, he screamed back "this is my getting rid of my aggression... . do you want me to beat on YOU, because I am not going to do that!"  I responded that him throwing things around and breaking things is scary and every time he does something like that I know that "I" am the thing he is destroying, whatever it is.  I told him it doesn't work for me, that's not how I'm wired, and I can't deal with it.

I think 123Phoebe said it well... . What is your biggest fear?  Identify that, and you will start getting somewhere.

Take care... .

Hi Allibaba,

I am sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time with all of this. You said there is no reason to stay other than your messed up loyalty to him. I would like to offer the suggestion that you make a shift in that loyalty from your husband to yourself and your son. I am really not one to talk... . because if you read my posts on this board (I'm a newbie here) you will see I have my own messed up loyalty that I am trying to come to terms with and work through. But what I can offer you is the reason this messed up loyalty came to be in the first place and that is because I spent 25 years growing up with a father who was BPD.

My father raged on our family constantly. We never knew what would set him off. He began beating my brother at the age of 2. I got the least of his abuse because I learned to keep my mouth shut, hide out, and do what he wanted. But I lived in terror as a child. I used to wish my dad was dead. I used to wish to be anywhere but there. I hated when the switch flipped and he got that look in his eyes that I can only explain as the devil.

I remember at the age of 10, my mom asked me to put my laundry away that she had folded and left in a basket in my room. I told her I'd do it later. My dad flipped. He stormed into my room, screaming at me about "disrespecting" my mom. He towered over me in a rage and I cowered back on my bed. The closer he got to me the more terrified I became, and having seen him beat my mom and brother so many times, I was scared I was next. Instinctively, I leaned back on my bed, brought my feet up, and kicked him as hard as I could in the stomach. I was trying to defend myself from what I knew was coming and at that time, never having been in a physical altercation with anyone, I believed that kick to the stomach would be enough to shock him, send him flying backwards, get him a few feet away from me so that I could escape. I was wrong. He backhanded me as hard as he could. I was knocked out. I could hear the ringing in my ears, I could see only black. When I came to he was still standing over me raging... . I scooted backwards across my bed and cowering in the corner on my floor, crying and begging him to leave me alone. I was cornered. He came around the bed and picked me up by my hair and I started screaming. My mom came in the room and started screaming at him to let me go. He dropped me and turned on her, which bought me enough time to jump over the bed and run. We lived in the country. I ran out of the house and down the road... . I looked back and saw him coming out of the house and getting into his car. The bushes at the side of the road obscured me enough that he didn't see me. But I was certain he was coming to kill me. I had nowhere to hide. So I went in the ditch and laid flat on the ground and prayed he would drive by without seeing me. He did. It was hours before I came home again.

I tell you this story because this is what it was like growing up in the home of a BPD parent. If you can imagine the fear you have as an adult when the BPD flies into a rage, imagine being a helpless child and magnify that fear by 1000.

As much as I have tried to move on with my life, so much of my life has been tainted and destroyed by growing up in that environment. My mom now has PTSD and is paranoid everyone is out to get her. My brother by all appearances has a normal life... . but he can be very cold, calculating, and crule when he feels like it. And me, I am 37 and have never had a normal loving relationship. Every boyfriend I have had has either been full on BPD or had BPD or NPD tendencies. I have zero self-esteem, zero self-confidence, and I wonder if I will spend my life alone forever.

If you a struggling with leaving for your own sake, please consider for your son, what his future may be like. It's not a pretty picture. And right now, it's not his choice... . it's yours.

I hope this will help you find the strength and will to leave. As I said, I am not one to talk, because I am in a fairly new relationship and I have not left yet. But I haven't been able to believe I deserve anything better... . also a result of my BPD father.

Love & light, Eternity

Wow... . Eternity... . that story is chilling.  I am so sorry that you had to live that way and really can only imagine what that feels like.  My dad was very calm and loving so I just don't understand it, nor do I have patience for it.

I know what you mean about the look of the devil.  When my husband is in a rage, his eyes are not his own.  They are dark and they look right through you.  I worry most about my kids and how their dad is affecting them.  My 12 year old has been affected the most, and he is the one who is most like his dad.  I know that my father-in-law raged as well (he is now passed away) and I have a feeling that my husband bore the brunt of it in their house as well.

There are a lot of things that we, as grown-ups, can put up with.  It's easier for us to classify things and not take them personally.  But, to a child, all bets are off.  I know that my son is scared of his dad, although I don't think our situation is as severe (yet/hopefully never) as yours was. 

Your post reminds me that when I start feeling sorry for my husband I should really think about what my kids have been through and what is best for them.  My heart is breaking for you, that you are still dealing with your father's horrible ways and how he has impacted you for life. 

May I ask how your relationship was with your mom?  I am just curious if there is anything she did or didn't do that made the situation worse or better.  Also wondering how your relationship is with her now.  I used to try and make excuses for H's behavior to the kids, but I don't anymore.  They have formed their own opinions of him and I don't try to deprive them of those opinions by making his behavior somehow OK.  The last step of me doing that is leaving him, and I am working on that. 

I think I said it earlier on this thread but part of the reason I have stayed as long as I have (married 18 years, kids are 15, 12 and 8) is that I never wanted to risk putting the kids in his care without me around and without them being old enough to tell me if there were problems.  I think we are at the point where I could feel comfortable about him having them for limited visitation (weekends, etc). 

Thanks for sharing your story.  It is yet another wake up call for me... .

Hi nevaeh,

That story is only one of 100's I have from my childhood, all bad. It doesn't even begin to describe the terror our family endured. And even if a BPD individual is not physically abusive, their rage still intimidates and instills fear that destroys us inside. As I said, I got the least of my father's abuse, physically, but the emotional damage has scarred me for life.

As for my relationship with my mom. I have always loved and respected her. She was married at a time when women's shelters did not yet exist and the church we were in encouraged her to make it work. She had few options, and my father had told her "If you try to leave me, your kids will be visiting you at your grave". She stayed for that very reason. But for anyone experiencing abuse nowadays when there are more options to get help, I would encourage them to leave. Unfortunately, the PTSD my mom experienced after 25 years of his abuse has never really gone away. And the past few years she suffered two mini-strokes, which affected the logical thinking part of her brain. As a result she first thought my uncle (her brother) was out to get her. Then she thought my brother was the enemy, trying to steal her life savings, spying on her, recording and tracking her. My mom has always been like my best friend... . she understands me and I understand her. However 2 days ago, I received an email from her telling me she now realizes I have been in on this act to destroy her all along, and my brother and I are in on trying to steal her money together. Yes, this is an age related dementia due to the strokes (she is only 63 yrs old) but I blame my father for the years of stress and abuse she had to endure, and now because of his actions, his abuse, his threats, even though she is now out of that situation and has been for nearly 10 years, she is living it every day in her mind and there is little left of her quality of life because of this.

I hope you are able to find the strength to leave. I wonder how different my life would be today if my mom would have left. My firm belief is that the younger you can take them out of that environment, the better. You say your son already shows traits of your husband... . that is so sad. I agree with the difficulty in having the kids in his care when you're not around. I'm not sure how you get around that but I think professional involvement of some kind would be helpful in advance so maybe they can also help you in protecting your kids. It's so unfortunate that these situations have to be so complicated in that way.

I wish you the best.

Hi Alli!

Sorry I have not been able to participate in this conversation for several days. Wow, from the looks of it, things have gotten to a real boiling point. I'm glad you could see the points I raised at the beginning of the discussion. As you know, on the staying board, and the undecided board, our goal is to encourage each other to learn all that we can about BPD, the tools to improve communication, and to acknowledge our parts in the dysfunctional dance. That includes Radical Acceptance of BPD as a mental illness, and that if anything is going to change in our relationships, and our partners are not getting help, we must take on the roles as emotional leaders if we are to remain in the relationship. Let me say, I understand, as well as everyone else here,  the situations we are all in (myself in the past), and have lived many of same scenarios. It is an unfortunate fact, however, without accepting the facts, and adopting the communication tools, and yes doing all the work as unfair as that is! As UFN reminds us over and over, nothing changes without change. We have choices, make changes ourselves, whatever they may be, or expect things to remain the same.

I'm no Pollyanna! I spent 4 years figuring out what was wrong, learning the tools, and coming to the conclusion that a marriage to a pwBPD was not for me. That doesn't mean it isn't for you Alli. There are ways for you to make it better, if that's your choice, and that's what we're here for. To help you make changes in yourself, to encourage you to make decisions for yourself while keeping safe, and healthy, both you and your child. If you stay, you will have to accept the burden of emotional leadership. It's a tough choice, and I think Phoebe asks a good question, without FOG, what does your relationship consist of?

What I'm saying does not minimize the BPD behaviors exhibited by your H. I think, as the others do, that the rages are terrible, and give me a lot of reasons to be concerned for your safety and the long term good of your son. That being said, the choices are all yours, and if you want to continue to stay, you must work on the tools to make changes. I will share with you some things that my T said, after I asked my H to leave and was making a final decision to stay or not:

Your H is very ill

He will not change, as he is not doing the work to do so

Even if H does the work, it will take years to get better

You will always walk on eggshells in this relationship

This relationship will never be healthy and balanced

She said she could help me work to make things better, that's likely the best you can expect, as we all will do for you here. The rest is up to each of us, and it's a crummy decision either way. However, it is highly personal, and I respect each individual's right, and reason, for the decisions they make in their lives!

You have a lot on your plate Alli. I hope you can step back and take a look at the whole picture objectively. Weigh it all out, hear the stories shared here, and do what your gut tells you to do. In the meantime, stay safe!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Hi all

Thanks for your support.  We had an incident yesterday which was bad enough that my husband has finally hit rock bottom.  He laid on the floor crying in a ball for almost 2 hrs and recounted his version of his life... . and said he will do whatever it takes to get better.  He's scheduled himself w the doctor and the BPD specialist.

Prayers that this is the end of the insanity.

Oh, allibaba... .

I truly hope and pray that this is the event that you have been waiting for, and that your husband fully accepts his need for change and participates in some sort of Therapy wholeheartedly with an open mind. If he does that, there is light at the end of the tunnel for both of you (and your son)... .

Only a thought: During his search for Therapy, I know you would be trying to find someone versed in BPD specialties, probably including DBT which is great. My grown son (36) learned those techniques at his Dual Diagnosis Center with a 21-day intensive inpatient stay, and continues with his books and workbooks regarding it. But, what is helping him also is Neurofeedback Therapy sessions; do you have anything like that where you are located? It is a very non-threatening Therapy, fun and easy to participate in, and so helpful I can't even put it into words.

I'm just telling you this so it is in the back of your mind during his (hopefully!) recovery process as a possibility. I don't think my son would be recovering this quickly or thoroughly without this treatment.

  Rapt Reader

Dear Allibaba, I'm glad your here and safe.

When I talk about keeping yourself safe I'm not saying you should or should not leave him permanently, all I mean is that is sounds like you might be in danger because of where your husband's mind is and you should take precaution.  From your statements it is pretty clear he was leading up to one big something!  I'm glad your husband seems to have hit bottom and I'm really glad you are safe.

He needed to hit bottom.  He needs to reach for that help.  Support that and know your boundaries.  Clearly communicated expectations once this emotional meltdown has passed are going to key.

Yes the anniversary incident was insensitive.  Its not the cause of this event though. 

This was one big extinction burst from start to finish.  Zoom out on this situation a bit.

If you want to try here that's okay.  If you don't want to try anymore that's okay too.

If you do want to try being in a constructive mindset will set the tone for you.  Drop the resentment about past holidays and focus on those deal breaker issues.  Give less thought to his reasoning and more to how he is going to handle this.

What I got from reading this was he's expected you to fix his emotions for a long time - its not happening anymore and he can't cope without support.  It's a great opportunity for him to reach for the right kind of support now.

I'm pulling for you either way Allibaba.  This is a lot to go through.  Maybe its time to look into the comprehensive treatment plan for BPD - what dbt treatment entails, the components for patients and families, therapuetic separation (if needed), etc.

Do you have a therapist too?  One familiar with this having a loved one with BPD?  Youre gonna need support through this.

This is an escalating cycle. The dramas get more serious and the corresponding swing in apologies is equal and opposite. But nothing is really changing, it i snot too hard to predict that the acting up could be even worse next time.

You need to break this pattern. That may take a prolonged break until real changes are made. Otherwise this is your safety at stake.

This is not calculated behavior on his part it is predictable consequences of increasing levels of dysregulation. Increasing occurrences feed the fear, feelings of failure and desperation, hence the next one is worse.

He may feel horror today about what has happened, but what about next week, next month when memory of this has faded?

Constant quick fix forgiveness is feeding this.

Waverider,

Could you elaborate?  I posted recently in the undecided board, not trying to hijack this thread, and have a similar situation going on.  It is the familiar leaving scenario.  I feel he will come back around eventually, but I don't want to forgive and forget so quickly.  I want him to get help.

What do you suggest?

Thanks!

pwBPD quickly put behind them yesterdays problems and any consequences arising from them. Of course to a degree we have to accept this and not drag issues out too much. Mainly because there are too many little issues and it can escalate them further, or maintain the rage.

However if you forgive and move on, you may not fully feel things are resolved and it leaves a bit of resentment. This keeps happening and the resentment builds up. To a pwBPD this quick resolution means the whole issue is now done, compartmentalized and dealt with. Promises made to repair the damage are left in that compartment, and in their eyes, so should your hurt over it. Fresh start, the past has now gone and any lessons, or regrets, learn't at the time are left behind.

The core problem has not been fixed. It starts to happen again, you react, its's your fault in their eyes, you are still carrying issues from the past they have put behind them, you are holding the grudge. Blame is projected to you. It escalates and the cycle continues.

Serious issues need longer term consequence which extent longer than the emotional cycles of BPD, so that they are reinforced as baseline boundaries, not just reactionary or band aids. It takes a long time for reality to sink in to the BPD mind

When violence is involved there should be no fix for today. A longer term real fix should be seen to be in place before any re engaging.

Waverider can you explain "longer term consequences"? Depending on the circumstances, what kind of consequences would be effective?

Alibaba and Java... . I am so sorry to hear your stories. I witnessed these same types of incidents with my mom and dad as a child. It's terrifying. My concern for you is if these rages escalate to phsyical abuse... . because it seems like that is where they could be heading  Please be careful and keep yourselves and your children safe!