BPDFamily.com

I'm on the verge of breaking No contact. It's 6 days today.

I've written the message i want to send, just asking if she wants to meet for a drink as i miss talking to her & it would be good to catch up.

I know i shouldn't send it, but i really want to contact her.

Do it. You will get tired of the pain. I went through that. Part of the grieving process. Bargaining.

I'm more at the acceptance that its over, but scared by it. I don't want to let her go.

Eric1,

Let's say you do it, will she miraculousy heal ?  Be another person ? What will it solve ? What will change ? Will she change ?  And why do you not want to let go of her, the most important question !

Do yourself a favour I could not do for myself at the time, I didn't know about the BPD, answer these questions for yourself or here in the topic.  Be honest with yourself.  Nobody will critize you on your answers if you post them here, we've all been there.

And make that list with all the things that you allowed her and yourself of going way over your bounderies.  Take the confrontation as I did.  It helps !  And when in doubt, look again at it.

Reg

Shes uBPDex, so i don't even know if she has it.

It's difficult to explain. She was not only my bestfriend, but she felt like my soulmate. Cheesy, i know.

Gutted. Absoloutly gutted.

Hi Eric!

I feel with you and the pain you are going through... . 6 days can feel like an eternity at times like these... .  

Sending the message or not is entirely up to you.

Choosing how to respond or not is entirely up to her... .

Sometimes remaining in no contact is what is the least painful, but then again when the break is so fresh, sometimes we are just not ready to commit ourselves to no contact and if so that causes pain too... .

Since the response to such a note is entirely up to her, it might be helpful to ask yourself some questions to remain as true as we can to ourselves at such times though... . Questions like;

What can I expect, knowing what I know up to now, from her at this point?

Will I get out of sending this message what I aim for?

What am I really aiming for?

Are my expectations realistic?

How will I feel if she chooses not to respond or if dysregulated rage will be what I am met with?

No matter what you choose, we are here for you and want to support you. Part of accepting the end of a relationship is the intellectual acceptance but another part is accepting it emotionally. Not until we are ready to accept it from both aspects we can say we are truly in acceptance. And only you will know when that has taken place in you... .

What I am trying to say here is, yes, it may sting even worse if her response will be a negative one, but then again if so, it will sometimes be easier to reach the point of full acceptance if we put ourselves through that. Then again in some cases it is best not to... .

If you want to dig into it further before making up your mind, we are here for you... . So keep venting and keep processing it with us here.

Best wishes

Scout99

Breaking no contact is your call, man I broke it loads... .

What helped me was this board. You need to try and see through the soul mate, best friend stuff (I know it is tough)

If it is BPD then she more than likely mirrored you during idealisation... . What you saw in her was your own reflection. In the run up to the break up with my ex she shouted at me once, "YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH I CHANGED FOR YOU"... . Before I new what BPD was, I naturally thought that was a bit of an odd thing for her to say. On reflection, she wasn't the person I thought. She was mirroring me, or being the person she thought I wanted to be with during the idealization phase, and made changes to her behavior based on me without my knowledge... .

Bottom line, if your ex has BPD you will feel like she is your soul mate because she reflected your qualities. It is mirroring, and it will keep you hooked unless you really look into it.

I also thought mine was my soulmate and best friend. But a soul mate is another person being themselves and a best friend doesn't disclose all your secrets and personal information at the drop of a hat either.

It's daft, because we did use to finish each other sentences. We would make the same jokes at the sime time, and be thinking the same things at the same time. I don't think she was mirroring me, i think she was compatible. Obviously, apart from the rages.

I've asked a buddy to go drinking tonight, so i've bought a new shirt to look good and hopefully it'll take my mind off things.

The message i've wrote, is "Hey (Ex Name) Fancy meeting for a drink soon? It's cool if you can't, no dramas.I miss talking to you& it would be good to catch up"

Does that sound desperate?

If i sent it, don't get a reply or get a no reply, at least i can put it to bed then?

Does that message sound desperate or needy?

I think that's fine :) A second would be... .

From an objective perspective there is nothing in a note like that, that would sound desperate. However, that does not mean she might see it the same way... .  Regardless... . why is that an issue?

Does it have to do with what you might expect her to react?

To answer your other question about being able to put it to bed aftewards, that depends a lot on what, if any, the response might be... . Only you can really answer that... .

If you wont get any reply - will that make you feel confident about putting it to rest then or not?

If she responds with rage - will that put your mind at ease or not?

If she responds with something that doesn't make sense to you, will that put the matter to rest for you then or not?

If you decide not to send it, will that give you peace of mind or not?

Only you know, even though many of us have been and are where you are, it often feel like d*md if you do and d*md if you don't... . But what ever you decide to do that you feel ok about is the right thing to do, at this time.  

Have a great evening out with your friend! New shirt on, excellent choice!  |iiii

scout99

If I don't get a reply. I know it's time to leave it.

If I do get a reply saying no, then I've tried and again, it's time to leave it

If I don't send it, then I'll ask, what if I did.

It's more trying, saying what & how I feel, rather than mulling over it, again & again & again.

Many good comments in this thread!

I'd like to offer a very different perspective - not to counter any of the prior advice - but add more depth to it.

Let's say that you have decided that she is reasonably healthy, the relationship struggles were normal relationship struggles, and there were things you wish you had done differently. In short you want her back.

Is the "wounded puppy" lunch the way to go?

Probably not.

Most relationship coaches would tell you that you have to play this one out. In short, most new relationships fail in the first 90 days, and if you still have standing with her when that occurs, she will contact you or be receptive to your contact.   Trying to reconnect while she is in the “new relationship fantasy” and you are in the “whipped dog” mode is not likely to help your cause. In fact, it will likely close out future opportunity.

A relationship coach would say now is the time for a tactful retreat with strength -  then wait it out - might by 45 days - 90 days - 6 months. In the meantime, reconnect yourself to the man she and other women will be attracted to, that your friends like, that you like - the confident, self-assured, independent Eric 1.  

Doing this not only positions you better for rekindling the old relationship and to stand strong and alone while you grieve -  it also paves the way enter a new relationship.  It's a win-win-win.


This is “whipped dog”.  We all recognize it as we wrote them too.   You might do better to have a friend help with a note or gesture that stands tall and closes this chapter on a up note.

Hey, Gina, enclosed is the $100 I owe you - I didn't want to forget.  And thanks for helping me out when my pup was sick.  You deserve the best.

By the way, a breakup coach would call this "release with grace".

My point is that the best tactic for getting back or moving on is, in a sense, the same tactic.

You will need strength here.  Strength to exit clean, to rebuild, and to not misinterpret a safety net request when they have their first fight as a rekindling of the relationship.  Its time to become a stronger and better skilled relationship partner for your next chapter - whomever that may be.

 

There is work to do.  There is uncertainty that will be hard.

Good mental health is hard at times like this.  It takes strength.  

Good lord! I get panic attacks just thinking about going back to my ex! Anxiety!

Eric1,

At a bare Minimum, please lose this part!
It is soo weak. Seriously lose it. Sorry, for the brutal assessment. By writing this, you are causing problems before they start (mentioning drama, etc). And the 'missing you' part could be a trigger/stress causer for her.

That said, I am guessing if you two were "soul mates" and meant to be, you wouldn't be writing on a web forum about "breaking contact." And you wouldn't be struglling with what to do. You would simply reach out to her like she was a normal person... .

Oh yeah, there in lies the problem.

Sometimes we have to fail over and over to learn. We have all been there.


p.s. Skip had some great advice for you.

The thing that got me through the early stages of detachnment was to remember why I left her in the first place; because she was abusive as hell, I was completely tired of her sht, and I was pissed off, so I bailed.  And then of course I would think about when things were great in the beginning and miss her, and need to remind myself over and over that it was critical to remember how it was at the end and not at the beginning, because the beginning was what I had tried to get back to for months and it didn't work.  It doesn't make sense because it's a disorder, it just is, and we need to act accordingly for our own sanity.  And take our word for it, if she is disordered and you go back it will always get worse not better; the only winner is the disorder.

I'm going to be blunt here Eric-you're setting up yourself up for failure even writing "No Contact-Day 6" as if it's some ordeal! No Contact is for your OWN benefit-get busy and distract yourself from your ex, focus on yourself. You're a grown man so it's up to yourself what decision you choose to take however I would say that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

I've gone No Contact on a few people because I couldn't stand them anymore-I'm just wondering why you don't feel angry at your ex? I presume that you're here because your BPD ex mistreated you in some way... . forgiveness is totally overrated. I'm not advocating revenge either but I don't think you should be in such a hurry to forgive and forget someone that has hurt you. If I think that I'm going to cave and contact someone that hurt me, then all I have to do is remember all the ways they hurt me... and bam! I don't want to contact them anymore. It's fine to have moments when you want to contact them but it's not a good idea to act on that urge... it's just an impulsive urge and will pass at the end of the day anyways! People talk about anger like it's a bad thing but it can really help you stick to No Contact and navigate your way out of a relationship break-up successfully!

Are you repressing that anger or is it just not there?

If I've offended you Eric, then apologies however I think there's times when all of us, including myself, need some "tough love"!

To echo others, NC is a very personal thing.

I have tried and failed going NC SEVERAL times, but each time there was more and more time in between... . The bottom line is that NC is ONLY going to work if you truly want it to.  If you still pine for contact with your BPDex but are trying to maintain NC, it really is going to end up hurting you even worse I think.  For me, I was only able to truly commit to NC (including FINALLY blocking her number, email, skype, etc) when I decided that enough was enough and that truly, I did not want to hear anymore from her because all it did was make me hurt.  All of the times I broke NC, I don't think I was really committed to moving on.  And that is ok. 

It is one thing to be on this board because you know in your head that it is time to move on.  It is an entirely other thing to be on this board because you believe in your heart that it is time to move on.

Go ahead and reach out to her, if that is what you need.  There is a part in you that still desperately clings to her; again, perfectly normal.  This is ALL a process of letting go of that part, and it is a painful windy path to walk.  You will be able to commit to NC and find yourself not counting the days when you get to a place where you truly believe that NC is the right way to go.

At the end of my relationship last year

I bought a nice paper notebook and a pen.

At the top of the first page I hand-wrote:

"IT'S NOT OK THAT SHE:... .     "

And below that, in bullet form, I wrote every miserable, selfish, horrible thing she said or did to me.

It filled up almost two pages.

I keep it on my nightstand... .

When I get nostalgic about the "Good Times" we had, or wanting to reach-out to her, I re-read the list.

BTW, hand-writing the list is somehow more "real" than typing it into a computer... .

Respect... .

I respectably disagree with some people here regarding contacting her again. If you were addicted to drugs but weren't ready to quit yet, no one would say to give in. BPDexes are drugs and one way or the other we need to break free. The sooner the better. Look at my situation. I found it too hard to go full NC with my uBPDexgf and kept up contact a full 8 months after the break up. We dated for 5 months yet I still was broken 8 months later. I delayed the inevitable. I still am broken after 1 month NC now and it's hard to ignore her calls. Hell, I want to call her now so bad. I'm in the same shoes as you. The problem is that they are the cause of our pain and there is no positive in talking to them. It's gonna take pain to get rid of pain unfortunately. You may not feel ready to let her go but you gotta realize it's over. It needs to be over. These BPD's are toxic and will ruin our lives. Do you want to feel like you do right now 6 months from now? Realize that every time you contact her you are kicking the can down the road. Wouldn't you love to be somewhat over all this by the time the holidays roll by? I know it's hard to let go. I still don't want to but I know deep down that it's the only way to getting back to normal. Think about all the pain your ex has put you though. That won't ever change. There are healthy people out there who will love you and not abuse you. I think you should maintain NC and embrace this pain you feel now. Trust me... you will have to face this no matter what. Life is short. Feel the pain, let yourself heal and grow from this. You will come out of this a stronger person I promise you and because of this, you will find yourself in a better relationship.

Hi Eric1  

How are you doing? Did you have a great time in your new shirt and out with your buddy last night?

Did you get any wiser from all the very different advice you received in the thread?

As you can see, there really is no right or wrong answer to it, and therefore there will be a great diversity in the responses. The only important thing is really what you think is right for you!

Let us now how you are doing?

Best Wishes

Scout99

Had a good night! Didnt text her, however, I ended up trying to ring her... . At 4am. Drunk.

Not a wise move. Don't know if I should message her and apologise.

All the advice was great & I am starting to feel better about myself. I'm just trying to remember how she treated me and I know she'll be the same with her new bloke.

Great news! The therapeutic effect of a great night out with good friends and a new shirt may have on us should not be overlooked!

Nice going Eric1!

About the four o'clock call, just write it up among the forgiving notes to self, that we cannot expect ourselves to act perfectly all the time! We are after all only human!

Keep up the good work and keep in touch!

Best wishes

Scout99

I think Skip's advice was the best.  A "tactful retreat" then work on you.  There is no respect in chasing someone who does not want to be chased at this time, it will only add fuel to the dysfunctional fire.  Both parties in a relationship must want to be there.  If there is NC between parties there is a reason for it.  She may not want to be contacted, and needs to work through her own stuff.  You contacting her may very well spark the "I miss him" part in her and she will go to drinks with you and you end up getting together.  But the healing part never was given proper time.  The wounds are still fresh and need time to heal or they just reopen and get infected. 

You need to regain your strength.  Especially the strength that you will be just fine without her.  Irinically it may increase her desire to be with you, but the strength to be fine without her must be true.  Win, win, win as skip said.

I have broken the NC rule while being the whipped puppy more than once, and most times it was met with stonewalling, anger and blaming.  Making me feel even worse.

I am into week 5 of NC and as much as I want to reach out every moment of each day it is getting easier.  When I left just over a month ago, she told me to leave, I did calmly and compassionately tell her that I loved her and that I wanted her in my life.  The rest is up to her.  A healthy relationship takes both parties wanting it.  Forcing, enticing, or convincing the other party to be with you may work in the short term but never for the long haul.

My experience with no contact: The first days and weeks are really hard. Like super hard. And relapse is normal. My uBPDbf dumped me in grand manner, a rejection with rage and harsh words and blame. In the past, he would break up with me but after a couple days he would call me and want me back and our relationship seemed stronger than before. But I could tell the last breakup by him he was finally done with me, or done with making any effort to be with me. I left it at that and held out for 10 days NC. Then I texted him to ask if I left anything at his house (I spent weekends with him). He responded with more hate and anger and said to leave him alone and we are over for good.

So I did NC another week or so. And then I tried calling him because I wanted some some civility in our breakup. I didn't want things to end so badly where the last time we were together is the lasting memory of a terrible argument and him throwing my things out. I wanted to talk to him like an adult and try to get some questions answered. I wanted peace and for him to not hate me.

Well, he refused to answer my phone calls. He instead engaged in a text exchange with me and the texts were very hurtful. He said, again, that he wants to be left alone, that I'm a creep and a psycho b***h, and he was going to call the police on me if I didn't leave him alone. He said our relationship was dead from the start (this, from someone who said he wanted to marry me and have his kids), etc.

So be prepared to hear a lot of things you don't want to hear or read. Be prepared for her to tell you to eff-off, that you are vile and that she never loved you and she is happy without you. That's what I got.

Since that last text exchange a month ago, it's been NC and something in my heart and mind refuses to relapse. I am playing a game with myself, which I intend to win, that I will not break NC. Even though I start and end each day thinking of him and us, I am determined to put him behind me and I know NC is the way to go. I would be too embarrassed to break contact. I would feel bad about myself and he would see me as weak.

Today, the sharp pangs of loss are turning to more of a dull ache. Right after the breakup I imagined him moving on with other women -- I am convinced he had women waiting in the wings, his actions pointed to that -- and I had terrible obsession and anguish about it. But lately it hurts less. The pain doesn't last as long during those moments. I know it will be a while before I am able to be healthy and strong again. But my progress is in letting each day go by with no contact and being okay with it.

Sure, I have fantasy thinking that he will contact me a couple months down the line, like others with exBPDs, but I'm not counting on it. I'm prepared for the "worst" (which is actually the best for me), that he is simply done with me forever. I remind myself that I don't want to be someone who doesn't want to be with me.

I have to remember what you're saying here... . that every time I contact him I'm just extending the pain.  Very good advice.

The best thing about this site, for people with uBPDex's or diagnosed BPD exes who have kept it secret (as I think mine did)... . Is that when I question myself, and amateur diagnosis, I come here and see that the exact same things have happened to others. The STRENGTH that gives is unbelievable.

I'm not gonna ask her for drinks. I did text today saying that 4am is great time for a chat, sorry about that.

She's replied, haven't read it tho

Reading this thread gave me a flashback of how mine ended: after 4 days together, when she was pms-ing which exaggerated everything, she showed me rage, devaluation, and not one speck of affection, basically a royal btch with nothing but a look of pure hatred and disgust on her face, I'd had enough and bailed.  About 3 days later I get a call which I didn't answer, still pissed as hell, and she leaves a voice mail starting "Hi, it's me" in this squeaked little innocent voice, as if everything was just hunky dory.  I'd always known she lives in perpetual chaos, but the contrast between that call and the raging btch I'd spent days with was so extreme, and I'd started to learn about the disorder by then, that the pathology was staring me in the face and there was no more denying it.  What I was mostly was shocked, like how could I have been so snowed, but hey, I fell for it and at least made it out alive.

Good luck man, if she's anything like mine you don't want to go there, and pay attention to whether or not you're being your own worst enemy.

She replied - it's ok :)It didn't wake me up.You ok?x

Going to Ask if she wants to go for a drink. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Is she seeing someone else?

I don't know.

Are you clear on what you want Eric1?  Do you want to get back together, or do you want to get some closure?  I made the mistake of going back to "see what happens" without a goal going in, and found out I really just wanted to be with her because that felt better than being away from her at the time; more moving away from the pain than moving towards something.  And of course it all blew up, and I had to start over again.  Emotional detachment and objectivity is darn near impossible at times like that, but I recommend you try and focus on it a little; good luck man.

If you want to rekindle this relationship, there are many books about there with dos and don'ts.  It might be good idea to buy one and spend a night and cram through it before doing anything.

In the meantime, a simple text like "I'm great.  Thanks for asking." can be a good place marker and you can follow-up in a few days.

Nothing changes without changes.  If you keep doing what you have been doing you will get the same result - maybe its time to take a different approach.


A really good point.

I don't know if this will help Eric?

My ex is not diagnosed BPD, but apart from self-harming & other 'low functioning' symptoms, it's all there for a close partner to see!

We broke up several times & I suffered countless heart break & abuse. During each break up I learned hard & unpleasant lessons. Most painful lessons learned WITH BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS were... .

DO NOT expect any contact to be well received in any period when you're 'painted black' EVER! That is set in stone my man. Believing any different is good as believing there's a chance of getting to the moon in cardboard space ship some 5yr old knocked up in grandma's kitchen!

DO NOT mistake early pleasant contact for 'she's come to her senses & we can work this whole mess out, there's no other guy on her mind'.

(Usually the early stages of making friendly contact are while they're calming down from the situation that got you painted. They're now undecided about you, or the person they idealized while you were getting a good coat of Dulux's darkest gloss!)

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, think you can manage this differently this time & it will be okay.  Now you know more about her fears & insecurities & know what dark forces are at play, you're still not going to keep the rages, splitting & pain from coming back & eating your soul. You may delay it, or reduce the regularity (if you're one of the best practiced). But you WILL NOT stop it coming back to eat your relationship & you again!

But DO, accept that if she commits with absolute conviction that she wants to change her behavior in the relationship, while you too change yours, & is open to you BOTH seeking professional help & advice on why & how this happened, it has a iddy biddy chance to go well.


I personally if I'm honest with myself ,desperately want the latter. But I've accepted it's not on the menu for my relationship. That doesn't mean it can't be on yours tho! But anything less is just boarding the crazy train again & heading straight back to the lands of ':)O NOT'.

I'm done with my ticket ticket... . Unless the next train's going to a therapist. But I won't waste my life standing & waiting for a train that's never coming! If you're lucky that train might come for you. But don't board any other kind!

I've asked if she wants to catch up over a drink. Suppose I'll just have to wait and see if I get a response.

Still no reply. I just have to take this on the chin & try my best to forget about her.

The most important thing you can do right now is focus on your motivation; why do you want to see her and/or text or talk to her?

I miss her. Yeah, she could be crazy at times and she's done and said things which are terrible, but I still care about her.

What does that mean exactly?  I still care about mine too, but I want absolutely nothing to do with her, for my own sanity.  6 days is very short in the detachment period, there's an acronym around here, FOG, which means fear, obligation and guilt, but has the additional meaning of being in a fog, and 6 days is not enough for it to clear.  You're on this board for a reason, you're hurting and you've been subjected to BPD traits at least, or you wouldn't be here, so dig a little, since as I mentioned going back into it to "see what happens" is the recipe for more pain.

I thought it was probably best to ask on here, as we seem to still be in contact.

She rang me last night, she'd had a drink and just wanted to chat. She has the week off work, we were supposed to be going away on holiday, but because we broke up, we didn't. The conversation was pretty light. She spoke about a job shes going for, her dad whos having some emotional difficulties, what shes been up to etc. What's been going on with me & stuff.

The things that got me was she mentioned she'd been drinking quite a bit since the break up and said "I thought the break up would of been for the best, but... . " Then i said, looks like we've both been hitting the bottle" We laughed. She also said, "We should be on holiday now" We probably spoke for a good hour. I said i needed to go off and eat, so we ended the convo, then she said "i'll see you soon", i said "it's nice chatting", then bye.

I don't know if i would ever try to get back with her, but just find it a bit wierd that she still rings me.

Hi Eric1!

I want to commend you for choosing to work so hard on yourself and really think things through before doing something, and yes using the board to gain different perspectives on a situation is usually very helpful.

But it is important still that you don't loose track of you in this process, so that you sort of instead of listening to her and what she wants and so on, now instead starts to listen only to what the board members may think... .

Healing from the effects these relationships usually have on us, as well as the potential of being able to function better and overall feel better also within the realm of a r/s with a pwBPD goes trough learning how to be very true and trusting of ourselves and our own judgment, so that we don't continue or fall into the trap of co-dependency or become to enmeshed... .

Having said that, what you decide to do or not to do in terms of staying in touch, no contact or getting back together  has to be all up to you. Our journey looks different from person to person, and that is the way it has to be... .

However when it comes to the question you ask about, why or if it is weird that she keeps contacting you - I don't think it is... .

She seeks validation from other people and especially from people who she feels like her. My guess is she is not already seeing someone else, (since you haven't brought any such thing up about her), or maybe she has, but it didn't work out so well? Either way she is probably a bit low on people to seek validation from, and pursuing you, who could from her perspective be furious with her and would want to have nothing to do with her, instead acts nicely to her. And that gives her tons of validation and can even trigger her into some kind of chasing mode where she can play a little bit to see if she could get you back if she wanted or not... . This whole process, (if she would enter into it, i say if since all of this is my speculations based on general assumptions on how their disorder can make a pwBPD act, but they are like us all different people, so what applies to perhaps most, may still not apply to all!), rewards her with tons of validation, since it would be a win win for her... . Either she can win you back, and then that is a win, even though then the cycle starts all over again, and with it comes also the break ups... .

Or she can't, and you may get angry at her for trying, but that still tells her you have feelings for her anyway... . and that too is validating for her... .

The thing we have the hardest to wrap our minds around is the fact that their reasons for pursuing a r/s is not quite the same as ours. The part that they seek true love and all that is the same. But to them it is the passionate feeling of true love that they crave, not necessarily the relationship itself, since their image of a relationship is infested with bad memories at the core of their belief system. In their world the prince and princess fairytale, does not end with "and then they lived happily ever after", but instead "and then the prince left me, because I am not worthy of anybody's love, and I was abandoned and left all alone... . "

Therefore they usually love the idealization phase of a relationship, but hates it when things get more established or intimate... . since to them it just means they get closer to the end... .

Now back to you... . How does it make you feel that she keeps calling?

What do you hope or want to come out of staying in touch with her?

Best Wishes

scout99

I enjoy speaking to her. But, it's taken me a lot to be where i am now. The oringal break up completely destroyed me. It does get me thinking about her, and anaylizing why she calls, and what she says.

You're right about the validation. She talks about her job, family, her weight (as per usual) etc because she knows i reasure her. She always needs reasurance with everything she does. Shes a complicated soul. I said when we were going out "I need a manual to understand you" which she agrees with.

I think she has been dating. I know the type of person she is, and being with someone is her priority. Either they're not validating like i do, or she is just keeping me on the back burner. I haven't mentioned anything about getting back, missing her etc, which is what i would usually do, but neither has she.

You're completely right about the idealization phase. We broke up after this, and i said to her, you need to understand, this is the honeymoon phase, when this goes, it takes effort to make a relationship work. We did end up getting back together. I was her longest relationship, the previous ones only last a few months, because she does get scared.

I don't know what to make of it all. If we did reconcile, which some of my freinds would be angry about (because they know she treated me badly at times & i was so cut up) I would have to get her to write a list of what she expects and wants from a relationship. I would do the same because theres a lot that would need to change.

It was probably just a simple phone call that im blowing out of proportion. I have just texted her, only because she was talking about buing a computer, so i said about a shop she should try that specialises in macs.

Should i ask her what is the deal with us?

My dear Eric1... . I wish I could tell you that making a list of things you both wanted in the relationship and then sticking to it, would be a path for success... .

But in all honesty, such a plan cold backfire in all sorts or relationships, but would for sure do so for a person wigh BPD... .

She has an unstable sense of self! In plain english that means she doesn't know from one minute to the next either who she really is, or what she really wants. She has never been able to develop a stable sense of self, since the root for being able to do so is experiencing acceptance and love for who you are as a little child... . That is the platform we need to form our sense of self that then will guide us through our life... .

Now we may all from time to time suffer from a bit of low self esteem or low self worth, but here we are talking about an underdeveloped sense of self, which is the foundation for even being able to feel low self esteem and distinguish is from great self esteem... . Do you see the difference... . When suffering from BPD, the unstable sense of self makes them walking through their lives with a sense of being lost... .

So even if she would be having a great day and you were to write that list of yours that would be the insurance for making things work this time around... . Once done her anxiety levels would start to rise, together with her anticipated fears of just how fast she would do something to break the rules on the list, and be abandoned by you... . The whole list as such would be a trigger for her... .

Actually, if getting back together with her is what you want and aim for, I would start going through the lessons in boundary making, communication skills and read up as much as I could on what it would take for me to make myself strong enough to not get affected by her BPD behavior, that is to learn how to not take things personal and truly go into radical acceptance that she is a person with a severe disorder and that it doesn't matter if er behavior never changes, because you are your source for happiness, and not her... .

Honestly that is the only way, you as a non have a chance to make it and thrive within a r/s with a person this disordered... . Not by keeping up the hope beyond all hopes, (as my friend so wisely puts it when I get into this sort of magical thinking... . ), that she one day will change and that your love will finally rescue her... .

Should you ask her what the deal is?

I ask you - what do you think she will answer? Do you think she holds the answer to such a question, given the fact that she has an unstable sense of self?

I think it is soo good of you to really allow yourself to examine yourself and what you want at this point. Especially since you are still so emotionally affected by this girl, which does make it harder... . So hang in there! You are doing good!  |iiii

She's using you as an unpaid therapist. I know that part of you probably feels privileged that she entrusts you with all this intimate information but she's really just dumping it onto you. She's using you as a place she can go to feel better and then when she's done, she'll go back to her "real" life.

My guess is that she might see you as some kind of father figure too and that you might have some kind of father-daughter dynamic going on within the relationship-that she rushes to you to be soothed just as a little girl would rush to her father to be soothed. It's called transference to use a psychoanalytical term. But you can't be a father to her-you can only be a boyfriend to her. She expects unconditional love off you and of anyone she dates but romantic relationships aren't like that. Relationships aren't about unconditional love whereas a father-daughter relationship IS about unconditional love... that no matter what the daughter does wrong, she can still come back to the father and the father will forgive her and tell her that everything is okay. Well, that's what a healthy father-daughter relationship consists of.

I had that type of relationship before so I'm speaking from experience here. I felt obligated to this person because I knew what lousy parents they had. I felt a sense of guilt that I was letting them by not giving them advice... by not soothing them because I knew that they'd get into trouble without my guidance. I felt fear because I thought "oh they'll make stupid decisions if I'm not there". I had to realize that I'm not a parent... that I can't offer that to someone except my actual children if/when I do decide to have them. A parent/child relationship is a unique thing. I feel sorry for borderlines trying to replicate it but I know that ultimately, it will always be doomed because you only get one set of parents... you don't get another set. If you have bad parents, then that's it... you're on your own basically and it's probably best that you just accept it and deal with the cards that you're dealt instead of pining for something that you'll never have.

She has a stable relationship with her mother. But, her relationship with her Dad isn't so.

I wouldn't say i'm in a father-daughter type because we didn't have that type of relationship. She needed reasurance from everyone, whether it was at work, from relatives, friends or me.

I told her when we were going out that she needed to see someone because she still harbours bad experiances from her parents break up. She said i was the first person to mention this. Did she seek help? No.

I think it's obvious i still have feelings for her. But, i can't just be a guy that she turns to when she's lonely, or things get tough, because it's not what i want.

If she tries to call again, i'll do my best to just ignore the call. I can't keep putting myself through it. I'm expecting the "i miss you, i want us to work etc etc" but all i get is her problems and just general chit chat.

The push/pull dynamic of the disorder can be crazymaking; mine would get scared and back off, and then relate to me as if everything was fine, she's happy, yadda, yadda, and if I brought up that she pulled away and is keeping distance I'd get "I don't know what you're talking about."  Insanity if you let it be.

I just remembered another favorite of hers: "don't say how things are going to be."  Of course not, how could she have her chaos if there was a plan and she was sticking to it?  At first I thought she liked the chaos because it kept me on edge, which was a little true, but mostly it was because she couldn't do any better than that with the "unstable sense of self".

Sounds like you still have your head on straight and feet on the ground; good work man, and good luck!

How should i play it if i wanted to get back?

People will probably shoot me for it, but now i know what i'm dealing with, and because i do still really like her, i think i'll be in a better place to control it.

I posted this earlier. 

I don't know if she is in a new relationship.

I understand being indifferent and not being whipped, but should I answer when she calls or just plain ignore her?

The only way to survive a relationship with a BPD is set extremely firm boundaries and don't waver from enforcing them; a BPD is like a little kid and will continually test you, and if your're strong enough you will prevail.  I found that out late in my relationship, and it did work, in fact she was grateful that someone was showing up in control, she was literally screaming for it, but it changed my perception: a healthy relationship is a 50/50 partnership, and personally I didn't want to date a little kid, I wanted to develop a friendship and partnership with an equal adult, and she was not that person.  Why I went so far down the path with blinders on has been the biggest question I've been asking myself lately, and I'm thinking the pain it caused will teach me that lesson, and oh boy did I learn.

I'm thinking of just asking her outright "are you happy with the breakup?"

It's because of some of the things she said on the phone. It doesn't make sense.

you can't make sense of the senseless... . we need to except that :)

Should I jus text her 'are you still happy with the break up?'

Eric... .

This is "whipped puppy"... . she may respond, but there is so much weakness and in this approach you are inviting a relationship where you will be a "doormat" until the next whim takes her off.

Let her come to you.  That door is open now. Be receptive but cautious when she does. In the meantime work on building yourself back up into a strong and confident man again.

From my experience Eric, the only way to get a BPD girl to come back, if that is what you really want is to be there in an unconditional way... . Don't chase, don't fuel it. You are most probably a trigger for her at the minute, and nothing productive will come out of any contact you make. I learnt this the hard way... .

If you want her, you need to accept her as she is. You can't change, or control her. You can only change and control yourself.

If you really love her, don't make the mistakes I did... . And believe me, I made them all.

What you need to do is really work on yourself. That takes time in itself. I'm 5 months out, and I still am. Its an on going process, and something you will always have to if you wish to maintain a relationship. If you chase, she'll lose respect for you, once that happens there is almost no going back... .

What I'm starting to realise is that yes, there is stuff I dislike about my ex as far as emotional abuse, but beyond that she was perfect. Now I'm in a situation where I will probably never get her back. Now I have to work on myself and accept my situation... . There is stuff I hate my ex for, but I unconditionally love her, and that means letting go :) Use this site, it's a great place to vent, but don't do anything until you have thought it through rationally.

Everytime I speak to her, it gives me a sense of hope. I can't keep doing it. If she is s happy with the break up, I can tell her that we can't talk anymore.

I bumped into two of her friends at the gym. They said they've seen her once since we broke up, gone of the radar. She does this when she gets into new relationships. I don't know for def that she is. If she is, she is still contacting me. I'm not being a dog and a lead the she can tug when she feels like it.

How do I find out without looking needy or desperate if she is happy with us being over.

If you think she is happy with or accepting of two being over, then take it for face value and don't project any "what ifs" into the situation. Don't think for her. There's is no way to avoid the pain of loss from anything, let alone an intimate relationship. Live and fight through the pain. Don't prolong it. Let fate do it's thing. If she is meant to be with you, she will be with you, just like when you two met. But that doesn't mean you were meant to stay together.

Follow this woman's actions and not her words. I learned that the hard way in my BPD relationship. I put way too much weight on his words and empty promises and didn't face his actions, which told a different story.

I'd ignore her. Remove yourself from her drama.

I don't know if she is because of what she said on the phone. This is why talking to her doesn't do me any favours because i question what she says after. If she is seeing someone, i'm sure as ___ they don't know she's still talking to me, and i'm not comfortable with that. If she says 'I want to be friends' i would say, are you happy hearing that i've been sleeping with someone? because i know that i don't want to hear that you've been. Untill a time comes when i am indifferent to it, is the time we can be friends.

I'm just gonna ask her if shes happy.

I've asked her. I'll post the reply.

I've lost the plot.

In all likelihood you will not get any clear response to such a question, since in all likelihood she doesn't truly know... . That is the result of having an unstable sense of self... . She doesn't operate on logic or intellectual reflection, but from whatever gives her the most emotional relief from fear of pain... . Therefore she cannot be expected to give you a stable answer to such a question, no matter how desperately you need that answer... .

Loving you won't change the way she is or the way she acts... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

Thats very much mirroring. Its part of why we resonate so deeply with someone. This can and does also happen with healthy people, maybe not as intense. BPDs are just very skilled in intensifying it

Still no reply. I first said "can i ask you a question", which she replied to. I've deleted her number now anyway. I can't be bothered messing about anymore. She knows i still harbour feelings for her, but can yet ring me for an hour chat. I can't do it.

Question for you.

She's seen the message & it's a simple question "be honest,are you still happy with the break up?"

Why can't just reply, Yes, i am still?

Why would she ignore it? Is it to keep me geussing and thinking about her?

Because to her that is no simple yes or no question... . She has an unstable sense of self... . That means literarily she doesn't know what would make her happy or not. She may think one thing one minute, and the total opposite the next. That is what it means to have an unstable sense of self... . She cannot give you an answer that you can hold her to. since she can't sustain it herself... .

She probably has moments when she misses being with you and others when she feels paralyzed with fear of what being with you will mean, (to her ultimately being abandoned, since she will perceive all r/s's ending and not lasting).

Eric1 my friend, if you want to see yourself in a r/s with this woman, who has this disorder, you will have to come to terms with and accept her for who she is, a person with a serious mental disorder, that effects everything in her life, and especially relationships. I see you over and over again asking for a logically explainable response or course of action from her, and that is futile - since that it not something she can provide you with.

You will have to surrender to the fact that she will respond in accordance with her borderline disorder. That is the only logic to this that you will ever be able to find.

I know you are hurting and pining for this woman, but by not seeing the reality of it, you are setting yourself up for more pain... . She is an expert in avoiding pain, so if nothing else maybe you should learn something from her... . She is not engaging in this conversation with you about your relationships future, because she knows engaging in that will greatly increase the risk of feeling pain... . Therefore she avoids it... . Maybe you should exercise some of that behavior too... . ?  |iiii

Best Wishes

Scout99

This thread is gonna get locked in a minute, but i appreicate the response, Scout.

You are right about her not knowing what she wants. First she wanted to live with me, then she didn't, then she wanted to move to the city, then she wanted to move to the country, then live with me but we had to move after 2 years, to then staying where she was. Same with us, one minute she wants it, next she doesn't. Same with her job, one minute she enjoys it, the next she wants to change profesion, to then moving to a different job.

She knows me, she really does. She knows i still like her, its obvious. She wouldn't be getting upset by it. She is either is fed up and can't be bothered to respond, even tho she knows i need it to put me out this mental torture. She knows i anaylize things.

Real question should be to yourself, are YOU happy with the breakup? Look out for you and your happiness. She has already proven that she wont do that for you

She ignores it because you questioning it proves to her that she is still on your mind. In other words she has space in your head. Thats really all she needs and wants right now. If she is with someone else this fact allows her to gravitate even further towards him with her knowing that you are safely where she left you, in case she wants to run back to you for the comfort she knows she can get from you   :'(

Best thing you can do right now is do something for yourself, go out have fun, read abook. Go for a jog. Anything. Anything for you to shift your thinking

I'm not happy with the breakup. I want to be with her. It's made me take a real step back and not only learn a lot about her & relationships, but about myself as well.

It's a struggle knowing she's seen the message and can't be bothered to respond. Whether it's p*ssed her off me asking, because she does lose her ___ quickly.

If what i was doing was happening to a mate, i'd give him the best advice in the world. Only problem is, i can't take my own advice. I'm actually contemplating calling her and just saying it was inappropriate of me to ask, don't worry about it"

Eric,

Did you ever miss anybody or anything you still had?

We don't miss anything till it's gone, there's no reason to miss something we still have is there!

She WILL NOT START THINKING YOU'RE GONE & MISS YOU until you (real or acting) appear to not be there any more.

Every time you make contact you're putting yourself back to square one! That stands for trying to bring anybody back whether BPD or otherwise.

Then if SHE initiates contact, you still need to appear comfortable, as it makes you look strong. Same again, whether dealing with BPD or otherwise.

She will not miss you until you leave her to wonder where you went. You can't control her times scales so you have no choice but roll with it. In the mean time follow everybody's advice & get on with things she distracted you from.

You need to 'man up' if you want her to miss 'her man'.

It's really hard I know but you're gonna fall flat on your face every time till you get the hang of this mate.

Needed that, Moonie.

Tough love.

I've deleted her number now. I won't contact her again.

ERIC STOP! Stop everything, texting, calling up, explaining, apologizing, asking questions, just STOP man!

You're making excuses to contact her. You're gonna bollox this up hands down if you don't control your desire to contact her.

Let her come to you, in her time, when she's ready. If you try to push anything other than that, you'll push her, indeed you will... . The other way!

Good lad  


Slowly slowly catchy monkey!

And while you wait, check with yourself that it's really what you want so you can be better prepped for the return. You will need a lot of strength to manage your emotions with her so practice reading up on how best you can do this.

You need to understand yourself too so spend time looking at you while you wait for your fish to bite the line.

I think I've done too much for us to reconcile now. She's not interested otherwise she would say so. I shouldn't have asked her if she is still happy with the break up.

She knows where I am, but everyday gets easier, so I'm not always going to be here.

Eric,

I think moonie' has it right.  Before you can make any of this better, you have to stop making it worse.

There are member and tools on the staying board that will help you in this relatiohsip (or any relationship) - why not take some time to learn them now while you are waiting this out.

You will learn a lot about BPD, relationship skills, and yourself over there.  You will learn what it takes and that, in and of itself, is worth the trip over there.

We're at page four so we need to close this after your next post, Eric.

Skip

Thanks for the advice on the thread guys.

Cheers, skip. I'm sure I'll start a new thread tomorrow  :)