BPDFamily.com

After both participating in and reading a previous post about the possibility/probability of going contact forever vs. reconnecting and after reading the other responses, it has really drawn to mind some questions for me.

We're currently NC with my husband's parents (mom uBPD, dad possible NPD) and sister. We just found out there will be a wedding for one of my husband's cousins next summer. We love this cousin and want to both celebrate her marriage and support them by being there at the wedding. We know his parents and his sister will be there.

Obviously, lots can happen between now and then. Today we received an anniversary card, very simple, signed 'Love, Mom and Dad' and I also received a birthday card signed a similar way. In the past, they have glossed over that we aren't talking and instead said things like 'We're so glad you're doing so well. We're so proud of you' that had my hubby and I both chuckling and insulted at the lack of acknowledging that there had been no communication and therefore an obvious problem with the relationship. So things have changed a little and she put forth effort into sending simple, nice cards. We've taken the effort (before receiving these cards) to send them both birthday cards.

So there's some communication, but not much. So here is my question for all you NCers, VLCers, and LCers, what has been your strategy in doing what you've done communication-wise? Do you just send cards for special occasions? Do you participate in emailing back and forth? Do you talk on the phone? If there is a family event, how do you personally navigate that... . do you talk to them? Essentially, how far do you let them into your life and exactly how did you go about constructing boundaries through your limited communication?

Wow you are having the same thoughts I am today. 

I have currently been NC with my UBPD sister for 5 months.  ZERO contact and today is her birthday and I did not send her a card, text, e mail or anything. It has been very hard for me but NC is Clearly NC unless she seeks some kind of help which is extremely unlikey.  We were NC for about 6 months 3 years ago and then I had a limited contact and things were "OK" so to speak.  I had sought professional help 3 years ago and learned of her condition.  At that time difficult as it was it was explained to me this will never change and even if things are "OK" they WILL get bad again and 3 years later they sure did.


I am not sure if you have young children or not but that is my major reason for NC.  I refuse to have my kids at ages 4 and 6 ride this emotional train and observe her behaviors and the extremes in attitude and how she treats all of us and my mother.   

The hardest part of all this was best described to me by a social worker I have seen.  You may be able to relate with the cards.  Family  members of BPD's ride the circle of abuse.  At the top of the circle is one extreme (they are super nice, super fun, they would give you the world, YOU WANT TO BE with them because they are SOO nice.  As you round the circle the niceness gradually decreases then something happens and they totally are vicious... . then they look for the "crack" which is sending cards, trying to be nice... . ect... . once they find the crack then they can be all nice again and the circle starts over.

This description fit my life so well and over the last 12 years I have rounded the circle in this very way about 4 times.  Each time more hurtful and dramatic and now I have my own kids to look out for.   

In my situation I know if I go back it WILL happen again.

So if any of this sounds familiar you need to decide if you risk it and get any involved are you sucked in weather you want to be or not?  or is NC all the way best. 

This is awful and I feel for you and your family.  Best of luck with your decision

Thank you, enough abuse, for your insight!

I just realized a few minutes ago that I'm feeling pretty triggered by the card... . the pretend nice, just like you said about the circle they set up nice-viscious-nice-viscious---ugh! His mom is passive aggressive enough that I know she'll pop over during the wedding and coyly pretend as if things were okay, to 'see how we are'. His sister loves to stir the pot and it wouldn't surprise me if she kind of cornered us during that time to ask questions, demand answers, and overall just start crap. I'm over it and it hasn't even started yet.

We don't yet have children, but we're wanting to start a family. I'm very much like you, enough abuse, in that I don't want my future children around the bad behavior. If I can't trust her with my heart, why would I trust her with theirs? My husband feels the same way.

I know it'll start all over again if we were to go back to any kind of verbal communication. I'd much rather keep it to simple, superficial contact if there HAS to be any, such as a card. I don't want them calling. I don't want the emails from BPD land. I guess I just feel emotionally lost when it comes to the whole contact, no contact, limited contact thing and I'm scrambling for ideas on how to support my hubby's cousin while not going to the wedding. Then the thought of not going to the wedding makes me feel like heel. I just don't want them to get away with the fun of attending events and us having to stretch around it all just to avoid the inevitable confrontation, you know? This sucks.

That sounds like a very difficult situation.  If you want to go to the wedding, the best way you can respect your husband's cousin is to refuse to be part of any drama.  Perhaps if you remember you're doing it for her, it will make it a bit easier to stick to your boundaries and refuse to be baited.  It sounds like, at least on the surface, your mom will not start anything.  I completely understand how being surface nice is so infuriating, my mom also likes to pretend nothing is wrong (especially in public).  So just politely give short answers and cut the convo short.  As far as your sis goes, just stick to your boundaries and refuse to talk to her about it.  "I'm not willing to discuss that right now.  This is cousin's wedding and I really just want to spend time celebrating it with everyone."  Best of luck to you though.  It's not easy.  Maybe you can just keep yourself busy with other guests so they aren't given the opportunity to interrupt your good time.

For my husband, no contact means no contact. So long as his uBPD mother refuses to have a psych assessment with her children speaking to the physician sharing historical patterns, etc. he will have no relationship with her. This has not been easy and she has tried repeatedly to break this no contact. All of the kids have brought up the rules when she reaches out and she simply denies she has an issue and then says we are the ones with issues (directed at some or all of us, depending who was re enforcing the boundary).

This is not easy as her attempts at contact are quite aggressive and nasty and leave us upset. My husband won't reply to any of her attempts but his siblings do, which likely confuses her but he prefers to stick to his game plan as he sees no point in attempting to fix things without professional guidance.

To be honest his approach leaves me somewhat uneasy as I am worried about what she will do next to get his attention. She is too vain to harm herself but she has a history of accusing abuse and stalking... . not fun at all.

Heal from your childhood wounds

Develop good healthy coping skills

Good boundaries

Thank you Sitara, tryinghard2012, and Clearmind!

Sitara, you are absolutely right. Not letting them bait us is going to be key and I think it will be easy enough to focus on the wedding and other guests. After sleeping on it, I've decided that I'm going to stay in an attitude of happiness for the couple while there. My hubby said last night, 'Honey you love to plan everything but those kinds of things you just can't plan.' Gotta let it go.

tryinghard2012, wow, it's so hard to be completely NC and I totally understand the uneasiness of what might come next. It's like we remove ourselves from unhealthy situations, but we're almost always looking over our shoulder. Initially, my hubby was all or nothing about it and now he's changed, willing to send cards, but no other contact. I think that's the most comfortable I will get with the situation. We too, have discussed it and we also want his mom to have a psych assessment. And until then and based on the results and what she and my FIL are willing to do about that, we may adjust communication stuff at that time. Until then, it seems VLC to NC for us.

Clearmind, thank you for the reminder. I especially worked hard on boundaries before we left the state almost a year ago. I guess NC kind of gives you no practice dealing with the crazy, so I'll probably review the things I've learned before dealing with MIL, FIL, and SIL in the future.

Hi Up In the Air,

Well my case was that BPD never made the effort so I made less. I then moved from the area. To be honest though there was already LC.

Biggest change before I moved, I started emailing instead of phoning. Now I have it to the point that birthday cards are sent and obligatory mothers day card - which is cringing. Then I mail to say thanks or she does and a bit of news, she tends to be more forthcoming to tell me stuff now, whereby I don't disclose much. I have to, because she can trust me not to be nasty but I worry that her comments or lack of care to things that are important to me will hurt me. So it's protection.

I don't send gifts for christmas and I asked her not to so she doesn't now. I just said I don't 'do' christmas anymore.

The first year I did this it didn't go down well at all and second but better now.

It's the least contact there's ever been but she is waiting for me to see her soon. So a couple mails in the last year, but occ. visits are on the cards. So VLC with once year face to face.

Family do's; try and avoid all of them, weddings have been difficult I have to just bite the bullet. I was tempted not to go to the last one but without me announcing NC I had to. Nobody knows that she is what she is. Very isolating. You get 'down' after for the next couple of days then after about 2 weeks one starts not to think about all the comments, gestures, body language. Some of them do add to the list of weirdness catelogue.

I'm unsure of the correct or most popular way of describing but I would say for me 1) VLC, is birthday cards, odd email - a couple times a year. 2) LC birthday cards, odd email, phone call, odd visit - a couple of each of these a year.

3) Seeing them with no restrictions - inviting horror into your heart :D

PS For clarification, I should say my BPD MOM - is the 'witch' type

I'm no contact so I don't send cards to my uBPD father but he sends them to me for holidays and my birthday. For awhile he would write messages like your in-laws, now he just signs them. It still annoys me because he signs his current wife's name, too (she was his most recent mistress and despite my very clear requests to never have anything to do with her he keeps pushing a relationship with her on me - also, the one time I had to deal with her at my cousin's wedding she was just an unpleasant person).

As for special events, you have to decide what you can put up with. I thought I could handle seeing my dad so I went to my cousin's wedding. I had a horrible time and was so emotionally messed up by the interaction that I decided I wouldn't attend any family functions that he was attending. So basically, I miss out on a lot of family weddings and other functions. It's frustrating because a lot of my dad's family doesn't like him but feel obligated to invite him. But ultimately, I feel better and am less stressed out. My father won't respect my wishes and quietly ignore me when we are at the same function. He spends the whole time trying to act like we are happy to see each other and everything is normal. I find it very stressful so that's why I don't go to things. You may feel different and be happy with polite and strained interaction. I think you and your husband need to figure out what your boundaries are before you go and at what point you will leave. It helps to have a game plan, such as "If they do x, y or z we will polite give our goodbyes and leave" or if you have a trusted family member who is willing to intervene should things go south or get heated you may want to ask that person for help.

You are very right! NC does very little accept sweep it under the carpet.

there are some great books and info on the net about boundaries. We need strong ones.

Missful, thanks for your two cents. It is amazing how if we let the boundaries down for even a second we, as you put it so well, 'invite horror into our hearts'. So true. That's exactly how I feel. I like the idea of 'not doing Christmas.' My husband and I have discussed how much his mother in particular holds gifts against people and we've said we don't want to deal with it again. I'm pretty sure if the topic comes up, my hubby plans on telling his mom that we don't want to exchange gifts with them any longer. A card is fine, but we don't want the drama.

frankief, thank you for the idea of the 'wedding boundaries', of if she does a,b, or c, we'll politely leave. I think that would work perfectly for this situation and it actually helped put me further at ease... . so thank you! Even if we attend family functions, such as last Christmas, things are strained even with both my MIL and FIL not being present. They've run our reputations into the ground and it's just plain unpleasant to be around people who treat us badly based on a lie. So I'm sure we'll be spending much less time on such visits.

Clearmind, this statement concerns me as it sounds like a judgmental generalization and I think it is important to realize that everyone's experience is different and every PD is different.

I went NC after 3 years of consistent boundary enforcement (with the help of my therapist). NC was not my preference, but my PD relative reacts to boundaries with even more extreme behavior, and she will not respect them. Many PDs are like this, as some are more out of control than others. If regular boundary enforcement works to keep your PDs in your life in a way that you can accept, you are lucky, but this is not the case for all of us.

I am concerned because I have seen this type of statement on the site more than once lately and would not want newer members to think that going NC means they are not facing the reality of the situation or 'sweeping things under the rug.' Going NC is serious and I would never recommend it as a first resort for anyone, and I think most of us would benefit (I certainly have) from the support of therapy as we work to manage our relationships with PD family members, but NC is the right course for many people.

"You are very right! NC does very little accept sweep it under the carpet"

I think any contact sweeps all the past history under the carpet... . unless you include in your dialogue prior to LC or vLC that you have not forgiven the pwBPD for the past but you are willing to send cards or whatever you decide are your boundaries.

  the pwBPD has still taken no responsibility for their actions yet they do have contact and will continue or resume their behavior at some point.

I can both understand how NC can be helpful and also considered sweeping it under the rug. NC, as all communication with the pwBPD is complicated and tricky. It's easy to lose the skills we achieve during therapy when we go NC. But I also agree that managing a relationship with someone so out of control is taxing and to some degree, is sweeping the effects and results under the rug if there's no improvement or respect.

The way my hubby and I looked at it was trying to rebuild a fence on a busy road where drivers don't respect the law of the road. They just keep plowing down the fence. So we just keep rebuilding the boundaries, the fence. Over and over this happens. At what point is enough, enough?

For us, it was simple. No matter how much therapy, no matter how hard we tried to set boundaries and enforce them, no matter what we did, my uBPD MIL was going to do what she wanted. We recognized that we only had control over how we responded and how we ran our household. She knew that we wanted a healthy relationship. She knew we were weary of the constant drama and lip service. If she didn't want to take responsibility, if she didn't want to better the relationship, then that is her full right and choice. Since we decided to no longer tolerate her abuse and manipulation, FOG, etc, we went NC.

It's actually given us what NC was supposed to give us - space and time to think and heal. But now as we're looking at the relationship from the outside, with no strings attached, we're recognizing that it's just not going to work. That to be respected and valued in this relationship, she's going to have to come to grips with her behavior, her illness, and be willing to work toward a healthier self. Only time will tell if that's possible.

This is an area I am struggling with in many ways. At this time, I would call our interactions LC although going more towards VLC. Due to boundary issues. My T is working with me on this. She put it this way. At this time, where all this is concerned, I am fragile, not weak but fragile. It is like a toddler learning to walk. when they take their first steps they are so unstable that it seems if you look at them wrong they fall. I feel like that toddler with my mother. I am just learning to start boundaries with normal people who know how to respect them.  My mom bowls me over and knocks me back yet. As a toddler learns more skills they steady themselves, I feel that is the same in this case too. I am learning skills but they are weak and fragile and easily derailed.

I guess one thing I am finding at this time, is that my whole reality is rewriting itself. Coming out of the FOG so to speak. I see the distorted reality my mom created for me. At this time, to be in too much contact with her shakes the work I am doing on myself.  If it is a good visit, it sets me us to believe I am making our interactions to be worse then they are, if it is bad, then I am picking myself up for days. It really is a no win situation.  For me, I am still figuring out the issues.  I no longer go rescue her. I can't. Amazing thing is that she has found a way to cope without me coming in, finding her next victim. Reinforces to me that I was a pawn and it was all about her and what was good for her.

Anyway, for me. I figure that I can't put it that black and white. I just have to learn to trust my gut. My gut at this time, says any contact at this time is not really good for me. With the holidays coming up, and the family still trying to play family. I don't know what I will do. NC with her a lot of times for my family means that there is no contact with the rest. I don't know if that is good or bad. it is what it is. My family lives in black and white and my world is becoming so many shades of grey.