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hi, thought i should post this on the Leaving and Detaching Board, but could only find a "post here" option here.

my intro is here on this board and i've been posting on the Detach & Leav Board... .   i've been NC from xBPDgf for SIX MONTHS.  in this time she has continued to call my friend - that's the only way she knows how to reach me b/c i changed my phone # to avoid her (after i went NC the first time).  my friend ignored her calls and eventually had her blocked.

my ex got sent to prison (still there) for drunk driving and probation violations so she could only call my friend collect and she could not reach me at all.  so, after all these months, 6 months NC, i thought it was finally over.

BUT today friend calls and says she rcv'd a LETTER from ex.  <gasp>  OMG how dumb am i?  i tell people here all the time that the BPDx will probably show up, randomly, FOREVER and now it's happening to me i'm surprised?

so, i've seen it suggested to just return the mail unopened.  not sure i can ~ or even want ~ to do that.  i want to open it!  i want to read it!  i might even, in some little part of me, want to re-engage! 

see, even after all i've seen here, read here and learned here, i still cling to some beliefs... . that she is special, that we were special together, that we could still have a special life together, that she was my soulmate (her words & she convinced me), that i loved her and she really meant it when she said she loved me, that i never found love like that before and never will again.  i feel there's unfinished business.  i fear i might be losing the best thing that ever happened to me, just for being too stubborn, too set on NC, to read the letter.  maybe she's lucid and normal after being sober for 8 months.

see, the thing is, she knew she was BPD (she even told me pretty early on, i had never heard of it tho), she struggled with so many issues BUT SHE WAS GETTING TREATMENT she was trying, she's not in denial about that.  but is it enough?  i always hoped that her alcoholism was creating many of her BPD-like symptoms and that when she got sober things would get better.

but when she got sober (she didn't really get 100% stay sober yet) i realized i'd been living a fantasy.  that it would take a long time for her to "normalize" just from sobriety alone, AA suggests no new love r/s for at LEAST 1 yr, and i kinda gave up hope for us.

but then she got sent to jail and prison for the drunk drivings and probation violations.  then i started getting hopeful AGAIN (secretly) that if she was locked up and FORCED to be sober for 2 yrs that she could really kick it and once again we could be special together.  (yes, i know how stupid all this might be sounding to you, hehe,)

but damn it this is my heart, my future, my life (i only get ONE), and WTH yes i was unhappy with her abt 40-50% of the time and downright miserable another 25-30%, but that remaining %?  pure bliss, joy, union ~ i've never known such love.  why can't that part grow?  and hey even if it doesn't grow, i am pretty dmn miserable without her, NC, so what have i really gained?

damned if i do, damned if i don't.  can't live with her, can't live without her. (except that, in many ways, living without her seems WORSE)... .

sorry this got so long, if u got this far thank you.  Thoughts?  Comments?  Lashings with wet noodles?

icu2

Hey icu2,

Why is it up to your Ex to determine whether the relationship is over?  You thought it was "finally over" yet now that your friend received a letter from your Ex to you, it's back on again?  Why are you giving your Ex all the power here?  You have the power to choose, too, whether this r/s is right for you, and it seems like you need to give it some serious thought.  Good luck!  Lucky Jim

Well, you seem undecided and this is the leaving board - that said, let's try a different approach - what is it that you have learned about yourself in the past 6 mos of NC that makes you capable or not of being a partner to someone with BPD?

hi lucky jim thanx for writing.   sorry if i wasn't clear ~ what i meant was "finally over" was her contacting my friend (or me through my friend).  i have never felt like our r/s was over... . even tho "i" ended it!  even tho "i" enforced NC!   i mean, i ended it b/c there was too much dysfunction.  but have always been hopeful that she would recover enough to be in a healthy, mature love r/s.  whether that would be with me or not i didn't know but i held out a lot of hope that it would be me.

basically, i wasn't giving her power but the ball was "in her court" so to speak.  to get sober and healthy or i'd have nothing to do with her.  that's why she went to the 2 alcohol detox/treatment centers b/c i firmly told her you can have me you can have the bottle but you can't have both.  she TRIED to choose me, i believe, but she needed more treatment and she wasn't getting it.  we all agreed that people in her shoes need like 90+ day in-patient treatment, 30 days just isn't usually enough.

thanx again,

icu2

i am so sorry if i posted on the wrong board.  dont even know how my post ended up here b/c on my screen i was on the "new members" board... .  <shrug>  i've only been on this site abt 2 wks, are u saying i should post on a duf board... . the stay/leave(?) board?  could you tell me how to post there?

i DID leave the r/s and i HAVE BEEN trying to detach.  not very successfully, apparently.   :'(

the question you ask... .  deep.  i'll be thinking abt that today ~ have to run out to appt soon.  but i think it has to do with narcissistic tendencies, core trauma, bonding issues, making the BPD a primary r/s, stuff like that i am JUST beginning to get an inkling of in these past 2 wks here.  

and an article i read last night that was posted here, i think was saying that i was not in love with HER, but in a FANTASY of her i created in my mind.  but isn't that what all love is, on some (lesser) level.

thank you SB,

icu2

Only qualifying what your goal is -if you want to totally detach and move on, this is the correct board and you will get advice accordingly.

There is an undecided board that perhaps the MODS will move your thread to if that is what you wish.

It might not hurt you to really spend some time on the staying skills and lessons so you can know what is required of you if you make a choice to be a partner to a pwBPD. 

Since you thought alcohol was the main problem - were you attending Al-Anon meetings to learn how to be support for this issue as well?

well i guess i thought that from the Detach/Leave Board i'd get some good doses of reality about the dangers/consequences of breaking NC so no, i would NOT like it to move to Undecided at this point.  for all i know her letter is just a bunch of BS with absolutely nothing substantial enough to even begin to consider going back.

BTW i still dont understand how it showed me as posting this post in L1 but it ended up in L3.  how that happen? no other board shows me a "post" icon except for L1.  why is that?

<<It might not hurt you to really spend some time on the staying skills and lessons so you can know what is required of you if you make a choice to be a partner to a pwBPD. >>

thank you SB, i haven't  been to that board at all b/c i've working on detaching.  but i'll head over and check it out.

<<Since you thought alcohol was the main problem - were you attending Al-Anon meetings to learn how to be support for this issue as well?>>

no.  frankly i didn't think i needed to learn how to support her for that b/c i've been sober almost a decade and have gone to many al-anon and AA mtgs for myself.  <shrug> besides, when she came home from alc detox #1 i moved out the next day.  that was 1 boundary i refused to bend on, and she knew it.

Dose of reality?

Leave her alone - end of story.


This is your quote... . if you really and truly feel like being without her is worse - then you should look at that and all that goes with it.

If you are venting and want a reality check -leave the note alone.  The emotions you will experience by reading it are 1.  angry  or 2.  guilt/missing her.

I would be freaked out by a letter too - but I in no way shape or form think that going back is the answer to my own happiness. 


So, you were unhappy or miserable 65 - 80% of time?  Do you really think she is the key to your happiness?

ucmeicu2, I can't appreciate the fact that you want to open her letter. The temptation must be gnawing at you.

I don't know what to say or do in that type of situation. Maybe open the letter carefully, read it, copy it for archiving and send it back with RETURN TO SENDER written on the envelope. I'm sure her getting the letter back and seeing RTS on the front will driver her nuts!

Of course the smarter choice would be to just wrote RTS on the front and let the mailman pick it u and it'll get to her without you having read it. That way, you can honestly say you didn't read it.

Don't take what I typed as advice. These are just suggestions. Whatever you decide to do, you'll know your decision was the correct one.

yes i was unhappy/miserable most of the time ~ an active alcoholic can do that for ya.  nothing good, including honesty, mature intimacy, connection, reliability, etc can happen during active alcoholism ~ add BPD to the mix and it's like spontaneous combustion.  happiness is elusive under those conditions.

so i always wanted to try to see it through til her sobriety, to see what was left of us/for us in the ashes.  but after detox i found out AA says you need like a year of sobriety to normalize.  that's why her letter interested me so much, b/c she's presumably sober during this 7 months in prison.

her letter sounded sober, lucid, honest, genuine, authentic, and sincere.  but what i read here on these boards is daunting.  sounds like the general concensus is that you can't trust them, everything they say is either a lie or a distorted version of the truth, or the truth of a terrified 5 yr old.  can i believe what she says in the letter?

icu2

Hmmmm... .   So you opened it. Would it be uncouth of me to ask what she wrote?

My BPDw stopped drinking for a year - only got drunk maybe four times in that year and I thought our problems were over. Unfortunately  BPD is not just present when they're drinking, it's there forever, alcohol or no alcohol.

No, you can't trust what she wrote. The only truths in that letter are the full stops and the commas. Everything else in between is a lie.

hi aussieozborn (cute name there), no i don't mind sharing what she wrote. 

in 2 handwritten pages she said:  she misses me, she loves me, she thinks abt me and us and our moments together all the time, she cuts things out of magazines that remind her of me (she included a few in her letter), a large part of her is ashamed/guilt-ridden/etc at how she treated me/compromised what we shared, etc, that even tho we both had our own personal struggles going on at the time that something beautiful was born between her and me and she'll never forget it, i'm precious to her, she'll always love me, she wants to resume contact and reconnecting if i'm open to it/feel safe/comfortable/etc, asks that i call and/or write b/c "i'm letting you know that i would really enjoy for us to start communicating again & reconnecting as we establish getting close once again", she never meant to hurt me or abandon me/us the way she did but it was b/c of her struggles (*i guess she means all the BPD n alcoholic stuff)

but if you believe everything she said is a lie, then what purpose/value in asking/knowing what she said?  i rcv'd her letter a little over a week ago and have not responded.  i'm scared.  scared it's true.  scared it's lies. 

icu2

ucmeicu2, I can only imagine what type of confusion is going through your mind right now. If I were in your shoes, I'd most likely not know what direction I'd want to go, either. For the time being, maybe thoroughly searching your feelings my help you come to decision.

Her emotions in the letter probably are real to her in the moment.  If not, then she is acting.  I believe that is part of it at times, too.  But her emotions are like that of a child.  Intense, yet fleeting.  Her 'love' for you cannot be sustained.  It will always wax and wane (push and pull), unless she gets serious treatment.

Part of her probably wants it to be just as real as you do, but it cannot.  Her disorder prevents that.  There's nothing you can do to change that.  You do not have that in your power.  This is where the radical acceptance comes in that they talk about over on the staying board.  Can you live with that? 

Excellent post, Phoenix. As hard as that is to accept, it's all truth.

Your top post gave me the idea to ask this:

As quickly as their intense good emotions fade, do you think their intense hateful emotions fade just as quick? Perhaps they don't let those feelings of hate go as soon because they utilize them as a barrier to keep from feeling those good emotions for someone again - be it an ex or someone new. Is it possible their abandonment issues are also reasons to hang onto the hate?

Helps to really dig deep and find who and what you are missing. More often than not its not the ex per say we are missing its what it symbolises.

If we change our perception of who our ex's are rather than who we want we want them to be - we detach in a healthy way.

Right now we can bank a lot on one letter... . lots of promises and omissions - think about the reality of the r/s - past and future. Actions for the length of the r/s is what we need to be mindful of.

Thanks, LoneWolf.  I don't know the answer to your question but I wonder if the hate also has to do with their difficulty or perhaps inability to forgive on their own, which breeds resentment.  I read a post recently where someone said the pwBPD who was sexually abused, for instance, possibly sees us (probably subconsciously) as their abuser on some level.  How can a child forgive someone who abused them without proper help?  Just a thought.

Clearmind, Your post helped me.  I had to really think about what you said.  For me, I'm seeing that my ex symbolized my mother in a lot of ways.  I believe my mom has BPD, and on some level I was always trying to get a type of love and validation (often unaware that's what I was doing) that was unattainable.  And with my ex, I was trying to fall in love with someone who was emotionally unavailable.  I was also emotionally unavailable to some extent. 

Tough situation, wish id just wake up one day and not care anymore... . I've been where you're at and I'm fairly positive ill be there again at some point. My PWBPD has recited the contents of that letter to me many time in the past, and I always bought it hook line and sinker.

That letter, they really should make a copy of it so all our BPD loved ones have a form letter that they can just copy and paste to us at the beginning of each recycle. Then they wouldn't have to waste their breath or any ink with the false promises and lies.

Well Icu, you have had some great answers to your questions. Having been recycled myself I would urge you to answer every question put to you here before proceeding. I wish I had received the above advice and suggestions before I let myself get recycled.

Just so you know how it works, I met my exBPD wife online. She invited me to her home and being the perfect gentleman I shook hands with her. As soon as I walked into the living room she went to kiss me on the lips. I turned my face, the wet kiss landed on my cheek and I gave her a polite hug.

Over the years I joked about how she tried to jump me within the first 30 seconds of seeing me that first night. She playfully denied it ever happened. On our last night when the devaluation phase was under way, she raged about me turning my cheek and not kissing her that night, not pressing her up to the wall and "giving it to her hard" and this further proved in her mind that I never loved her. An hour later she calls the new guy, tells him "its time" and warns me to get out of our house before he got there. Knowing how crazy and dangerous she is and never accepting responsibility for her actions I got out of there fast with the assistance of the police.

So when you get recycled you hand all your power back. You hand them your weapons and even load the ammunition into those weapons to be used against you.

If you think its hard to detach now, wait 'til you have handed your power back to her.

I recycled several times, and I was losing myself more and more each time.  My boundaries had become almost non-existent, but that is on me.  I would not recommend it, but then again, it takes what it takes.  I do know for me that I am done.  And to make it easier, I think, she is already married again after dating the new guy like 3 months or something.