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When my exUBPDgf re-engaged me back in Feb '13 and i allowed her back into my life... . A few weeks later, she surprises me by buying me an Ipad mini and had the words "Just because... . Ironmanfalls" engraved on the back of it. (She never got me anything the first go around in our relationship)... . So when she literally surprised me with such an expensive gift(she doesnt make that much money)... . I was thrilled and happy but at the same time wondered why she had decided to do that when she never got me anything before. I remember posting pics of it on my Instagram showcasing it because no one had ever surprised me like that before.

Fast forward a few months. While at the tail end of the devaluation phase... . My birthday falls on the end of June. What did she get me for my birthday(i am not materialistic but want to show stark contrast of behavior)... . .

Absolutely... . Nothing. Not even a card.

An ipad mini just because to nothing.

Idealize. Devalue.

I am typing all of this on that ipad mini. It still hurts. A reminder of my ordeal. The words are still engraved on the back of it. The gift is real. The person who gave it to me... . was not.

The starkness of it all. More realizations that i need to swallow.

I tumble still.

Ironman... In the almost eight years we were together not one gift did I ever receive from her. Take take take nothing else.

Perfidy,

Wow... . I am truly sorry. How hurtful that must feel. 8 years is a really long time.

I am feeling every bit of it.

That is friggin' awful.  I would never have been able to accept such selfishness.  My W at least did enough really nice things to keep me happy when she was going through one of her good stretches... . it's what made the dark ones so depressing in contrast.

Used and abused. In the name of love.

I might add that... Yes utterly selfish.

My exUBPDgf told me when she left me the first time "there was nothing about you that i really liked"... . "My feelings for you were an illusion"... . (She initiated relationship with me)

She comes back to me begging and crying saying "i want my man back"... . Buys me that gift "just because"... .

Months later... . She leaves me 12 days after my birthday. Says "there was nothing about you i really liked"... . "Your love for me was fake"... . See all the contradictions?

Used and abused. I totally understand. A nightmare. All of this.

I have concluded that it was an illusion. It was so convincing. I feel like I dreamed it. Was never real just woke up one day. I was alone.

A very perceptive conclusion. I was left alone at the end of both times with her in the relationship. It was literally... . just me in the relationship. Your words are quite powerful.

Yes ironman... . I blew a lot of smoke up my own a$$. That is without a doubt the source of my suffering.

Now I deal with the aftermath. The hangover from hell.

This is the second time i am dealing with the aftermath. I thought the first time was hell.

This time... . Far worse. I invested far more of my feelings into the relationship. Her devaluation of me the 2nd time... . More brutal.

Hangover from hell. I totally get that. My hangover is freefalling from space.

Yes... We build ourselves up so high that the only way we can go is down. Who doesn't want that... . the crazy one.

My uBPDbf and I met in October online. His bday was Nov 30 and that was the first weekend we met in person. I spent a lot of money to make it a nice weekend for both of us, so I did not get him a gift. But come Christmas I gave him 2 gifts, one which was meant for his bday. 2 shirts and a picture I drew of him and his mom together (he idolizes her). He said thank you and accepted the gifts, seemed a bit uncomfortable about it. He had mentioned prior to Christmas that he got me something, I think he felt obligated to say that because I mentioned giving him his Christmas gift when I see him after Christmas. When the time came, he gave me nothing. My bday was also the week before Christmas... . it was barely acknowledged. I gave him a gift for Valentine's day as well... . I spent a lot of time looking for it and had it shipped from Mexico (his country). He was happy to receive it. I got nothing. I went on a trip to Belize that I would have loved him to come on but he couldn't. So I bought him some souvenirs and also took a picture of every sign that I saw his name on (I thought this was cute and he would appreciate that I was thinking of him). To this day he has never given me anything. Oh wait, he did once. He bought 10 keychains as souvenirs on a trip we took together... . he planned to give them to his friends in Mexico when he went back to visit. He decided to let me pick one out of the 10 that I liked and I could keep it.

We were shopping in the mall together once. He bought numerous items for himself. At one point he said he is bad at giving gifts and doesn't ever know what someone would like but said I should find something I like and he will pay for it. To me this felt weird... . like I would just be taking his money. So I declined. I think it's the closest he's ever gotten to thinking of buying anything for me. If someone is going to give me something I want it to come from their heart and be something they think I will like... . put a little thought in. Maybe that is selfish of me to think he should give in a way that makes sense to me.

The one thing I can say is aside from the gift giving, he has been giving in other ways, like helping me with something when he sees I need help (eg carrying groceries, etc)

That's weak

I can understand your struggles, Ironmanfalls, to deal with all this. 

I just want remember that emotional instability is on of the hallmarks of BPD.


more about it here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114843.0).

This emotional instability could be also behind the gifts/no gifts.

To Perfidy

Never receiving any gifts in a rs is a  red-flag in my eyes bc there is something wrong in the balance giving/receiving.

Eternity,

I can see how invalidating that must have felt. You putting time and effort into the gift giving and none of that was reciprocated. When I didn't even get a card on my birthday, I remember wondering, but she got me a freaking iPad mini prior for no apparent reason or was there one?... . and the fact that on my birthday, my very day... . nothing. As if I was unworthy of it. I felt so defeated. My close friends, when they were actually listening to me went ballistic. I knew the discard was right around the corner at that point... . happened 12 days later. How she must have been viewing me in the devaluation phase... . Scares me.

Surina,

Thanks. Emotionally unstable... . yes, all her contradictory words and actions... . so damaging. I try and piece together, I like order, I need things to make sense to me. When I see how literally everything she said and did was so contrasted... . it drains me. Who or what did this to this woman that her entire sense of self and outlook is so fragmented? Who compromised that individual to exhibit such awful behavior towards the person who was no threat to them? I wrestle with all of this. I remember telling her on the day of the 2nd time she left me, "stop treating me like I'm your enemy. I am not your enemy."... . Her reaction... . Silence. Nothing. She couldn't and/or wouldn't comprehend what I was saying to her.

If I'm honest I'm finding much said in this thread kind of ignorant!

people suffering from BPD are not pretending when they're being loving & affectionate. They are genuinly feeling those feelings in the moment. They are as REAL as when they are genuinely feeling differnt during the devaluation!

These people are NOT pretending! That would make them healthy minded, non disordered ACTORS!

They are not healthy minded actors acting out a role to fool us!

They are genuinly conveying their true feelings IN THE MOMENT. What we struggle with is that their illness causes feelings to change, rapidly & (in our healthy minded view) without just cause. Their reactions to things seem over the top to us, but we are not living in their reality & if we did, we may act & feel just as they do!

The love is REAL, the hate is REAL, and everything in-between is REAL, (not to us, but absolutely 100% real to them) but it's all only in the moment!

Our ex's are nice genuine people who are mentally ill. They are mentally disabled by their illness & disabilities are not voluntary are they! They are suffered!

What you & I have experienced with this disability is only a fraction of what the person with BPD suffers every single moment of their life!

If that's too much to understand maybe time to look at yourself & ponder if you're stunted too!

We're talking about an illness that disables the life of somebody we love! We can opt out, walk away, go back, what ever. We have the luxury of choice once we're aware. The person we love who suffers this life disabling illness does not.

Moonie,

Interesting post. Well stated. For me personally, I like things to be logical. If her love for me was real at the moment, and then her hate for me was real at the next moment... . what does that equal in the end? Do those 2 contrasting feelings negate each other out? It literally fries my brain in trying to process it. I feel like I am on an ever shifting stretch of sand with waves coming in and I am trying to determine where I place my feet as to steady myself so I do not topple over.

Ironmanfalls

What you and many others here seing like contradictory is perhaps just one moment this feeling and next moment another one!

And I agree with Moonie here, the feelings are genuine and not with the purpose to be damaging. When they change from very loving to "I don't care" we often struggle.

Understanding can be difficult, what we can do is accepting it.

Ironman,

Logic can only work in a healthy mind, applied to view situations from a healthy perspective & access to a healthy conclusion.

Therefor, you can not apply logic to the thoughts,decisions & actions of somebody who's suffering a serious mental illness!

You will never find logic in the behavior of someone who is ill. Logic is for healthy views only!

This is where we need to learn how to put logic down for a while & learn acceptance. Sometimes in life we must learn to accept what we do not understand. We do not understand because we can't find logic in it. But just because we can't apply logic to understand something, that does not mean it is not real!

Well said, Moonie. I do agree with you.


I think this is a very insightful and compassionate outlook on BPD. The challenge for me is that, when I am able to get to this compassionate place, I almost immediately start to feel like a failure -- for NOT being able to maintain my perspective. For failing to manage my emotional responses to the chaos. For not being able to separate the person from the illness, or my responses to the feelings "in the moment" from my feelings about the r-ship overall.

It's very, very confusing to me, in the end. I struggle to accept that I'm just not equipped to be able to pull it off. And, more -- that I simply don't want to have to work that hard. It feels unfair. What about the millions of other couples who just get along? Who love each other, and are supportive of each other, who don't tear each other down and let their own insecurities eat away at themselves and their entire relationships?

I want to be in one of those relationships. Does that make me selfish? emotionally limited, or lazy?

Moonie, if they are not pretending then what are they doing when they are sucking you dry financially? I feel that once they see the dollar signs they put on the act ie : the pretense that will give them a good chunk of your hard earned money. Funny how they don't get hostile when you are dishing out the money.

I am so sorry... . I totally get it. When uBPDexbf started dating me, he showered me with gifts (I didn't ask for nor want/need any of it)... . They were extremely expensive... . then they all gradually tapered off... which is fine because I really didn't need anything. It is just interesting because when my birthday came about this year, he broke up with me the night before (he had supposedly planned this big weekend... I think it was all a lie)... then came back to me right after the weekend... so I guess he got out of giving me something. I honestly think that one reason he detaches is because he tried to wine/dine show me this extremely affluent lifestyle, thinking that I needed it/he needed to impress me... but he really couldn't afford/maintain it. He spent $26K on my engagement ring (which he took back 13 days after giving it to me)... and I found it interesting that on the way home from buying it, he mentioned it had a 30 day return policy...

Did you at any time have a gun pointed at you by a BPD in order to obtain your cash? I suspect not!

Entitlement is something some BPD's suffer as a symptom of the illness. Maybe you saw that the giving of things to her helped quash the troubles in the relationship & so giving became a bigger deal?

Receiving gifts, shopping, getting something new etc, all have a feel god factor to us (disordered or not). When you suffer from this disorder the 'need' to quash the mess inside is greater than we can understand. It even overpowers their ability to control themselves at times, & I suspect that's driven by deep desperation.

If you think you were the victim of a carefully executed plan to take your money from you... .

1, It seems to have worked.

2, Such a plan could only be kept to by a non disordered person, so you're on the wrong site coz you were conned by somebody capable of controlling their emotions & following through with their carefully planned operation. That would make them a healthy minded professional actor using their skills for the purposes of a con!

If your view & understanding of this mental illness is blinded by your wallet, I'm so glad I live the day in my shoes & not yours.

To all,

I totally respect your different point of views. I know I have to accept this. Currently, I struggle with even swallowing it. I seem to just vomit it all back up. I just feel like the aftermath leaves you with having to process so many things to the already giant pile of pain that was also left for us, intentional or not by our SO's. My iPad mini, given to me "just because"... . reminds me of how fleeting all of this is in the end. My logic was about as useful in trying to understand this as trying to draw diagrams with straws on a windy day. Futile.

Moonie is spot on.  Their feelings are real when they are experiencing them--they aren't actors.  It's what makes things so difficult to detach from, and why we chase the idealization phase so madly... . because those feelings are so warm and satisfying to us. 

I do have deep sympathy for my W... . she suffered terribly as a child, and still likely does.  It's why I can't paint her all black despite the suffering she's inflicted, and which I've allowed to happen to me.  I can love the person and still despise her actions at the same time--the two aren't mutually exclusive.

moonie thank you very much.  i think what you touch on here is what has caused me so much pain:  always doubting and/or vacillating, on whether my xBPDgf's love was real or not... . caused me great suffering.  it felt so real, how could it have been fake?  i felt it!  i loved her and she loved me, that was real.  i reject the idea that the one time i felt most loved/understood/seen/heard/etc and the one time i felt the most emotional intimacy and physical/sensual arousal was a fantasy on my part.

however, i do have to keep in mind that i clearly have a lot of my own baggage  folie and also that it was a highly unhealthy r/s that i had to get out of.  that is called dialectical, btw, when 2 things that are opposite are both true.  BPDs tend towards black/white thinking and have a very hard time with dialectical thinking.  apparently us Nons can have problems with it as well so perhaps we have more in common with pwBPD than we are comfortable admitting/accepting.

it's so much easier and healthier to accept the reality of the situation and move on by looking at it the way you framed it.

icu2

if i'm understanding you correctly then no you're not being logical, ie if i have one foot in ice cold water and the other in super hot, then do you experience comfort? 

no, they do not cancel each other out.  her love and her hate were as real for her, at the time, just like everybody else's love and hate were real for us at the time.  but we all have our own special set of limitations, compounded or brought about by our perceptions and interpretations of those perceptions.

icu2

Well stated, Moonie. I’m having a tough time remembering any of the in-between stuff with my ex, but I'm thinking that it was all real, but to that moment.

Ironman,

Hey, I know what you’re talking about with all the frustration of trying to make sense of those two extremes. I went on about it in another thread. It can seriously feel like the worst kind of wipeout where you have no idea which way is up or down. And I can totally understand how frustrating it is trying create a logical sequence of events. I had a somewhat similar experience like that with gifts. On my birthday, let’s just say she showered me with gifts and a whole day planned out. The contrast for that day? The same day I learned about her webcam habit that supposedly started in her previous relationship, when her ex wasn't showing her enough attention (she had body image issues). She did it mid-day while I was running a quick errand! Anyway, I just wanted to share my own gift-related incident.

You're so not alone in the frustrating confusion of trying to make sense of 2 conflicting actions: expensive impromptu gift vs. no gift for your birthday. What you're feeling is totally understandable. And what's helping me in this particular confusion is to read up on the disorder. In my last thread (Hypervigilance residuals from relationship), Scout posted some good insight on the confusion resulting from conflicting behaviors. In that thread, I focused on lies, but I think it's related. I'm a firm believer in using repetition to learn something well. The more examples that I see that this is truly a disorder, an illness, the more I can reconcile with myself. Hang in there, Ironman.

deretour

Icu2,

Trying to understand this disorder for me... . is like trying to give a precise description for a fuzzy mechanism.

My brain splits the 2 personas, the 2 contrasting personalities that she exhibited emanating from one source... . 1 person.

I am trying to understand.

It isn't easy.

DerRetour,

I can definitely imagine your frustration and hurt that you experienced too.

I am so sorry.

The differences she exhibited in behavior from idealize to devaluation is jarring.

If I took snapshots of her behavior from say any day in idealize and then of one in any of devaluation... . you would think I was describing 2 completely different people.

Just like that gift she gave just because vs no gift on my birthday... . Such a vast chasm... . My mind sees this... . Attempts to build a bridge between the 2... . and has no connecting points.

Ironman and all --

Very interesting... .


After one of our first major blowouts, which had degenerated to the point that I told my ex this needs to change or I'm out -- she shared with me that years ago, while she was in college, she'd been in T, and had been dx'd as having dissociative identity disorder -- ! Imagine how I felt to have that little detail dropped on my 8 months into our r-ship! AFTER I'd made a point very early on to have the "so, I really like you, you seem to really like me -- is there anything I should know before I let myself fall completely in love with you?" conversation!

She eventually agreed that she would see a T who specialized in this PD (always refusing to refer to it as a PD -- "we're all on a spectrum" was one of her favorite phrases) -- but only if we went to see the T together. It didn't make much sense -- to approach T for a PD in the context of couples therapy, but I agreed -- and used my own health insurance for us to go -- hoping against hope that the T would be good enough to pick up on the cues, and recommend that she begin her own course of T, in addition to our couples counseling, if we wanted to continue that.

Made it to two sessions together before the first break-up. Learned a lot. But, just wanted to share that your feeling that you were dealing with two different people/personalities (at least) isn't at all unusual, imo.

Hang in there.

Eyvinder,

I can imagine how hurtful and unfair it must have felt to have her inform you of her condition 8 months into the relationship.

I can also imagine that 8 months into your relationship... . you had already developed major feelings for your ex.

I am so sorry you experienced that.

My exUBPDgf, even when I was just friends with her, hinted that she was very complex and difficult to deal with.

She repeated this to me constantly.

Warnings went off in the back of my mind... .

I didn't know anything about BPD at that time.

I ignored the warnings.

Thought she had really bad experiences prior to me.

When I had already started developing feelings for her... . and she left me and then came back 3 months later... .

It reignited all my feelings for her.

I already knew about her disorder at that point.

Still let her back in.

Even warned her, "don't do this to me again"... . "Please communicate with me what it is you are feeling in the inside"... .

Foolish... . I know.

That was my compassion.

Made no difference.

She left regardless of that warning I had issued.

She left regardless of the fact that I knew she was disordered... . And that I accepted her back into my life even with that knowledge.

She was aware that I knew.

Made no difference.

I wanted to scream at the end.

Ironman --

Again, all very common in this realm of shared experiences.


Yes. Thank you. It was the only true, major deception that my ex engaged in with me, as far as I know. A doozy, yeah. When I confronted her about how she could justify keeping that a secret, she swore that she hadn't -- said she pretty much hadn't thought about it for years, because it hadn't caused her any problems, so she felt she'd moved past it. (Like PDs can apparently resolve themselves like the common cold... . )


Same here. She even said, a few times -- "I'd understand if you wanted to get out now. It's got to be pretty scary for you. No one should have to deal with this." But I stayed. I thought we could work it out.

You're not alone.

For my birthday. She emailed pictures of her getting fitted for a wedding dress after dumping me at lunchtime! Not one of the best

My birthday was within three weeks of dating my uBPDbf. We were still getting to know each other, talking, hanging out. Already sexually intimate. Had daily communication.

On my birthday he went silent. I wasn't expecting a gift or any grand show of celebration, but I thought I at least merited a happy birthday text or phone call. I got nothing and it really upset me. Making him look even worse, I was given a surprise birthday cake and was sung Happy Birthday to You by some friends I wasn't even that close to. That warmed my heart but made me even sadder about the BPD guy.

First of many red flags.

i saw her have those wild swings but i also began to wonder if my xBPDgf had multiple personalities, something beyond just the standard BPD version of dissociation.  ie, it was creepy, sometimes out of the clear blue sky she'd start talking slow with a Valley Girl accent and it might last a minute or hrs but it would disappear just as quickly as it came.  and there was lots of times that she wouldn't remember something i was referring to from the past, but then again maybe she'd just been in an alcoholic blackout.  (initially she hid it, and i didn't recognize when she'd been drinking)

regarding presents, another  red-flag i could not stop buying her presents/trinkets/jewelry/clothes/art/etc/anything, really ~ almost like i got high from it ~ even tho she very rarely reciprocated.  i mean, she'd say she had bought me something but wanted to wrap it really special and then she'd never get around to it, so i don't know if the purchase was a lie or not.  

towards the very end we were shopping together one day, i admired something, she bought it for me, then back at her house she tried to keep it so she could "wrap it really special" for me! and i was like   :light: "that's ok i'll just take it now" b/c i knew i'd probably never see it again.  now i can't stand the sight of it anyway.

icu2

wow, another creepy similarity!  i learned early on that what appeared to be a small issue was gonna be a huge issue.  my xBPDgf  flaked out on everything.  started w/thanksgiving.  then 6 wks into our r/s i couldn't reach her the couple days b4 x-mas to finalize our plans.  then on x-mas day, on facebook, a friend wished her happy holidays and she actually replied "i'm all alone here on christmas.     plz call me!"  WTH?  red-flag    red-flag 

she flaked out of 100% of all holidays/special occasions and probably 90% of anything we ever planned.  why?  why do they do this?

icu2

 

Because their brains don't work right.

My heart goes out to all of you.

the simplicity of your answer made me chuckle lol .  thank you for my ":)OH!  :light: moment".

icu2