BPDFamily.com

Dear all,

I'm confused and hurt and in love (I've posted so much about my situation, I won't repost all the background to my situation, however, let me know if I should explain something or if in fact I should repost relevant info). I drove 8 hours to go see my exBPD a few days ago. I wanted to talk to her, I wanted to hear her explain how she could leave me like that, why it made no sense to me, I wanted to tell her I was not sure about her, basically I drove there because I thought that would help bring closure and free my mind up for starting a new academic semester. I wanted to tell and explain the hell I had been through during the past months and see if she could understand. If yes, good, I would get at least some sympathy. If no, good, I would know for sure she is crazy and be able to move on.

However, when I got there, to my surprise she let me into her apartment (when I went to see her in July she did not let me in her room and said she did not love me and did not know if she even cared about me). After we spoke for 1.5 hours I said I needed to go get a hotel... . then she said 'no, you are staying here tonight' and she meant in the same bed. Not everything happened but somethings... . the following day we had a nice relaxing day... . she spoke with maturity, depth, asked how she had hurt me, asked what I wanted to say, seemed so sane and interested. Then that evening she brings up the future... . and I say something that I'll probably move to Europe to be closer to my kids if she rejects me. She got quite upset, that I would consider another option, and that I had not thought of plans that include her. When I leave she writes me a email saying she got hurt because I had been so inconsistent and hesitating.

Mind you, this is the same woman that wrote me in April that she has no feelings for me, ignores my calls and emails for two months, tells me in July she does not love me, writes a person at the festival I'm at badly about me, tells me via email several times I'm not the person that she needs, etc... .

However, I felt during this visit that she really does love me.

My first question is... . how is it possible to go from 'I'm sure you are the one for me' (March) to 'I have no feelings for you and won't' (April) to 'I don't love you' (July) to 'why am I not included in your future plans' (August).

And how could I not be inconsistent and hesitant?

But honestly... . I really love this woman. I think. But mostly I'm so, so so confused.

Has anybody else experienced anything like this?

Yes.  It's always about their feelings and whatever they need in that moment.  And those feelings change like the wind.  It's similar to what i'm going through with my X.  He may not want me but all hell breaks lose if he thinks I might want something other than him.  They are like little children emotionally. 

Thanks Emily. It is that sudden change... . I was just stunned when she was upset about my inconsistency and my not thinking of future plans with her... . it was like she expected me to change just like that.

Another thing that happened... . I asked her where she went during the end of July, start of August. She did not want to tell me, but she said it was not a big music festival. However, through other sources I know for a fact she went to one of the biggest festivals in the country. I was more testing her (as bad of me as that was) to see if she would tell the truth.

Hi Jhensohn

Pertinent post this!

So sorry to hear of all your pain, but also affirming to find so many others here who know and have experienced exactly what you are going through.

My exuBP was one of the most confusing people I have ever met... exasperating, heartbreaking, and soul destroying.

But OH I loved him so, still do actually... (shows just how crazy I am supposedly because I do/did)... .

Somehow though, I don't believe so, (whilst I realise I have my own issues and am not perfect of course).

I just believe that I got conned by a Borderline, (ironically he used to joke about being a conman) when he got money off me...

This makes the heartbreak of unrequited love, that much harder to bear, because you thought you saw it, you felt it coming from your beloved other, and they told you they felt the same way too... Obviously there was positive reinforcement intermittently enough for you to really get hooked on believing.

When I heard about my exBP's past relationships, he said they all left him for 'better blokes', and implied that they had been cheating. When I asked if they were, or he thought they were, he got all angry and defensive, and defended the relationships, (very bewildering).

For me, there was no question that I had been cheated on, every partner I had tried to have a relationship with, were cheating the whole time, (my longest was with the Father of my two grown children and that was on and off for 10 years). Looking back, he had all the red flags of being Borderline too.

I know being with him all that time, almost sent me crazy, and I developed a defensiveness that never went away... . and I began to act in ways that really weren't nice... (arguing and swearing a lot).

As far as recently exuBP is concerned, I just believe that he had no luck with the women he had been pursuing his whole life, they all left him and usually quite quickly too. His longest relationships never lasted more than 2 years, and he never had any children, despite sowing his seeds everywhere when he was younger and more popular, (he is now almost 46).

He even was violent with a female friend who had known him 25 years, and used to date one of his best friends when they were in late adolescence. This incident happened only weeks before he met me, (of course he didn't tell me about this event when he was courting me and lying about courting me).

This friend of his, said something that he didn't like, (a criticism) and he reacted very badly, grabbing her by her arm and other stuff, (he really scared her, and she also had a young daughter of age 6). The whole incident resulted in his friend calling the police so she could remove him from her house at the time. She never saw him again, apparently.

3 weeks later, he was acting on advice of his brother, (unbeknowingly to me) and trying to make friends with me at the Shopping Centre I work at.

This worked, he went all out to meet me, and put himself in my path, and we became friends, having a conversation for an hour or so, (since I had just finished my morning shift). He was keen to meet up with me again for coffee, so the next day, (since he had mentioned he was short on cash) I suggested he come to my place for coffee and biscuits. He agreed to bring the biscuits.

In the days that followed, he admitted that his brother had told him all about me, (his brother was a regular shopper at that time). He told me the things that his brother had said, (about what I looked like) and what a great cleaning job I did there, and how friendly I was, (note somehow to him and his brother a friendly female must be a stupid female).

When I later was painted black by him, (after a month or so of friendship and we became involved) he denied saying about his brother etc, and said he was merely there to use the toilets, (rewrote history by saying he only told me his brother mentioned the clean toilets).

I took note of that lie, as I did the many that followed over the time I was involved with him...

Honestly, the only time I lied? Was to protect the lives/privacy of other people... . his death threats and violent unpredictable behaviour made that so unfortunately... .

Meanwhile, almost every day, I was accused of being a liar a cheat, and a SLUT, (this he had no qualms about shouting at me on my front lawn, or at my workplace, or anywhere in public actually).

What he didn't realise way back at the beginning (is that I took note) that if he was there to use the toilets, then why didn't he get out of his car to go and use them then, he had after all sat in his car watching me for half an hour, and even when we sat and talked he didn't go and use the toilets for an hour or so, (until after he had two coffees).

That is what he failed to recognise about me...

Yes, I might be slightly gullible at times, and yes very friendly, but I am not stupid, and part of my job, means being vigilant in public, noticing things and being protective towards both myself and the general public, (to protect them from members of the public that are NOT friendly).

So, the confusing aspects of being involved with someone BP, is a roller coaster ride of fear, laughter, shock, pain, tears, and absolute betrayal and unrequited love...

I cannot believe that I still sit here in hope, that he will one day return to me, and tell me he is truly sorry, really did love me and want to be with me forever, and commit to getting that help he said he would, and making it work with me... That was the dream I held onto the whole time, and he helped me believe in it. I really hate him and his stupid illness for that...

I would much preferred to never have met him, never been 'conned' and never fell in love with a hologram...

That hologram wasted 3.5 years of my life, and gave me one hell of a hard time... The only reason I went along, is that he conned me into believing I should and that he meant it.

Jhensohn, you sound like you are having a very hard time, your head is spinning from seeing your BPDex and then from what she is saying and what she is doing.

So many people here have experienced the BPD push/pull. There's a book about BPD with a title that encapsulates this perfectly: "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me".

Have you ever read this article about how a BPD love relationship evolves? https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

This article was exactly what happened to me except that the "rage" was manifested not in shouting matches and physical fights, but by her privately raging and her cheating with other men.

If your ex is truly BPD, then you should realize that she has a great fear of abandonment and a great fear of engulfment. That is why a pwBPD experiences chaos in all their close interpersonal relationships. They are afraid to be alone, but at the same time they are afraid to get too close. These opposing fears cause the behavior that nonBPD individuals find confusing, unless you understand BPD. Then it is perfectly clear. To understand what she is doing, you have to be able to understand what she is thinking and feeling, and a pwBPD does not think and feel the same ways that nons do when it comes to emotional situations and close relationships.

Even if your ex does not have BPD, look at the facts. What she tells you changes from month to month, one month she loves you, the other month she has no feelings for you, the next month she cares deeply about you. Then look at her behavior, one month she has sex with you, one month she won't even let you into her apartment, the next month she wants you to sleep in her bed with her. Is this really a person you can have a long term relationship with, not knowing whether she loves you or not, not knowing whether you can see her in person or not, not knowing whether she will even return a phone call or text message or not? Do you really love her, this person who is wildly inconsistent, not to mention a liar? Or do you really only love the feeling of being loved by somebody? You owe it to yourself to look at her and her actions clearly, then look at yourself and your wants clearly.

I thought you were seeing a therapist? It is well worth seeing a therapist who understands BPD, and if you haven't told your T that you suspect your ex has BPD, you should consider mentioning it to your T during a therapy session. Good luck.

Dear all,

Thanks so much. Yes, I'm seeing a therapist reguarly. My T is convinced my ex has BPD... . T even said once if she were to write her PHD she would write it on my ex.

However, my T also keeps telling me I should have no contact and that it is toxic for me.

But then I think that my T has never met my exBPD (or whatever she is now). She seemed so normal this time, she spoke well about other people, she asked me questions and was willing to listen, she told me she spoke highly about me to another colleague of ours (which I do believe) she spoke with maturity, she seemed stable and so sweet, etc.

When I finally had the courage in April to tell my T about my BPD person, there were many factual issues I brought up and my T said right away I was in a abusive relationship with a BPD. But now I don't know... . now I think again maybe I misunderstood her because how she was now... . this was after all the person I fell so in love with! But then I also think how do I explain all the things that happened (pressure for sex, pressure giving up job interview, being able to suddenly shut me out, no empathy last year, beyond friendship emails with third person, making huge deals out of small things and not letting anything go etc... . )

I'm SOO confused! Even about my feelings! I don't know if this is the love of my life and she is normal and I should just drop everything to be with her or if she really is a BPD and this is all part of her push/pull act and she will drop me or be mean to me once I commit to her?

I am a new member and read your post.  Up until I stumbled onto this forum I was completely overcome with pain, confusion, as well as cycling through various emotions.  I know how you are feeling.  It is the uncertainty and unpredictability that just leaves you unable to go about your daily life without having it consume your mind.  I spent 2000 bucks on the MCAT Princeton Review course, which was suppose to be 2 months long.  With 3 weeks to go I let my exBPD back into my life only to find out she has been hiding some guy at her house that she knew 15 years ago and lives in another state.  After her son told me she would look me in the eyes and straight out lie without skipping a beat.  Just a day earlier she would use the pregnancy entrapment game, wanting to move in with me, and wanting me to marry her.  We have had sex when that guy has been in town and she would have the balls to look me in the eyes and say she loved me and that I had better have sex with a lot when she's pregnant because she would horny.   What the heck... . trust me I know how ya feel... . you just don't what to believe.  In reality you have to keep in mind no "normal" person acts and behaves in this manner.

Hi Jhensohn!

I can so relate to your feelings of confusion and how hard it becomes to distinguish between what they say and do and all the shifts back an fourth... . We have all been there, who have ever loved a pw BPD!  


Posted by: Jhensohn


This is a very good description of a typical borderline behavior... . I have gone through exactly the same things with my ex bf, and he still goes through these cycles now, after we split. He desperately sometimes still tries to hold on to any form of contact, and sometimes he would want to rekindle and sometimes he just wants to be friends... . And again, in other times he claims we will never talk again and he wants nothing to do with me... .

Learning_curve74 has given you a lot of good insights into the push and pull behaviors and the conflict between on one hand fearing abandonment and on the other engulfment and intimacy... . That contributes a lot to the core of the borderline disorder.

The other side of it is the unstable sense of self that all pw borderline have in common. And with the unstable sense of self comes also the unstable mood and the intense difficulty most pw borderline have with sustaining emotions... .

They form in a way a very here and now mentality and don't function through a lot of retrospect, which is why they often don't learn much from past mistakes or relationships gone bad, but instead recycles the same behavioral pattern over and over again... .

With the unability to sustain feelings and emotions comes this to us flipped behavior where onde day they can love us to bits and the next day it is as if those feelings never existed... . The problem is that to them both those total opposites makes complete sense to them... . in the moment... . That is, when the one feeling is occupying their mind, there is no recollection really of the other. Or at least they cannot act on the knowledge of for instance; yes I loved you in march so perhaps I should still feel the same now in april... . ?

Instead it to them becomes: yes I did love you in march, but so what... . I don't feel a thing now! Both of those statements are true... . Because it is only the feeling that is consuming them in the here and now that counts... .

"Normal" people (oh how I hate that word really... . but in lack of a better one), have learned from childhood that we don't need to listen to, react to and give presidency to all thoughts and feelings that enter our minds... . In fact we do a lot of selection, without even really thinking about it... . And we put things on different shelves so to speak in our minds and in our hearts... . A pw BPD lacks knowledge in that department to some degree, so to them all thoughts and feelings more or less floods their minds, hence the engulfment... . And a coping strategy becomes to just listen to whatever feeling, thought or voice happens to be present at the moment... . And that is what makes it possible to act in the way you describe so well here!

Posted by: Jhensohn


All of these behaviors, that stem from their fears and their unstable sense of self and their unstable mind, does make them shape shifters... . And it is a disorder, and not technically an illness, (unlike bipolar, or schizophrenia just to name a couple of mental illnesses), so they don't normally behave in a crazy fashion... . A pw BPD can seem completely "normal" at times... . But usually mostly when we sort of like the mood or the feelings they are displaying at the moment... . If you want to have a relationship with a pw BPD you will have to learn how to both love and radically accept them as they are... . And that means accepting also the mood swings, the temper tantrums, the lack of empathy at times, the shutting out, the flirting and or cheating (if that is part of their coping strategies), and all the other things that don't seem apparent when she has a good day or during the idealization phases of your r/s... .

BPD is a serious mental disorder affecting the personality, so it defines who she is, and is part of who she becomes... .

I am not saying it is not possible to make a r/s work with a pw BPD, after all there are many examples of it right here at this forum... . But I am saying that it can not work if we as non's hope for unrealistic changes in our BPD loved ones. Or we harbor unrealistic hopes that our love sort of will make them come out of their disorder and make them be more normal... . Because that is disordered thinking on our part... .


Posted by: Jhensohn


I think I am not alone when I say that pw BPD have a way of evoking the inner child in us and sort of amps up the volume of emotions and passion and connection in a relationship during the idealization phases, due to their sort of transparent feelings... . They are just more of everything it seems in the beginning... . But that cannot be sustained. Because they are not stable and their lack of self esteem and self boundaries makes them seem more open and vulnerable to us and that makes the love feel in a way super real... .

But it is not... . It is just a side effect of having a seriously disordered mind and a sign of mental unhealthiness... .

The thing is, as long as she feels she cannot really have you, she will try to pull you closer, but the minute she feels you mean business... . then she will begin to try to push you away... . It is just the way learning_curve74 quotes from the excellent book: I hate you Don't leave me... .

You could also say: I love you - Please go... .

Best Wishes

Scout99