BPDFamily.com

Hi there,

So I have a 16yo boy with BP, still technically undiagnosed.  School started this week and it's been pretty touch and go in terms of whether or not he would even go the first day.  Well, he did go the first day.  I suspect he skipped a couple of classes the second day and the third day he skipped all together, had told us he'd be home by 3.  He never showed up until 8:15.  No call, nothing... his phone supposedly died.  We asked him for his phone and took his laptop etc.  He gave them up with little fight, though did ask why.  He's been getting rides to and from school with friends so this is the first year that it's happening.  I can remember not wanting to take the bus when I was a junior in hs so I understand that.

Friday morning, I get him up for school (because he has never been able to keep an alarm clock and use it... . which is getting to be an issue).  He gets up, comes down, uses the bathroom, goes back upstairs.  It's about 630 now and if he were taking the bus (he has no phone to contact his friends), he'd have to leave now.  So I go up and knock on door and he's not dressed yet.  I ask why he says 'How am I gonna get to school?'. I said I'd drive him.  So he got dressed and I took him.  Missed the entrance he wanted me to use and he began screeching at the top of his lungs about how stupid I was blah blah blah... heard it all before, thanks for the reminder :-) 

I drop him off, see him walk toward the school... or stomp in anger... and that's the last either of us saw him.  Never came home after school yesterday, it's 9am on Saturday and still no word.  It SEEMS like he went to school yesterday... theres no absence mark on the online school page for him, but I don't know how quickly that's updated.  I contacted one friend I know he hangs out with yesterday and he said he wasn't there.  I told him to have him call me if he hears from him. 

It feels a bit like he's just being defiant.  Certainly his friends have phones he can use to call even, but he's not doing that.  He has no money, no phone and just the clothes he had on.  We didn't go out looking for him at his normal haunts, though I'm sure he visited them.  I think we are doing the right thing here, but it naturally feels weird to kind of 'do nothing' when your child is missing.  I keep thinking about how we will handle it when he walks in the door... which I'm sure he will eventually... I hope... It'd be good to try and prevent it from happening again.  I'm sure we will hear 'you took my phone so I couldn't call'.  It definitely feels like he's in that mode where he's seeing how much we care/do when we've had no communication with him.  I don't know if we should go about our normal routines and go do the things we need to do, or if one of us should stay home in case he arrives... at what point, if any, do we call the police? I figure 230 will be about 24 hours that he's missing... Any advice? I know some of you must have dealt with this.

Hi,

I'm sorry you are going through this. It is very scary.

We took an approach of that our job as parents was to keep our d. safe which meant we'd do whatever it took to ensure her safety. We also had contracts and boundaries in place. Thus, our d. knew that every time she didn't come home we would take action and she'd pay the consequences. If she didn't come home, we would call the police, if she threatened us we would call the police, if she was a threat to herself we would call the police. It was important to let her know that every time, we would take action and then never move off of that, enforce it each and every time.

Being Mindful

BPDteensmom -

Certainly can relate to the situation as I've been stuck in that spot, as have many here, well... . more times then I think I care to count or could count. Truly sorry you're going through this - it's a sad, trying and exhausting situation.

I think many will agree boundaries and safety are critical.  Like Being Mindful has mentioned in previous post if there is any doubt on safety we have very black and white boundaries in place.  Our DD16 lives with me half the time and her mom the other half.  We both are consistent in that if our DD16 disappears or even so much as leaves either of our homes when we've said she can't we will call the police immediately and report her as a runaway.  It's a big step and we found it to be embarrassing at first, her mom still struggles with it but does it anyway, sometimes calls me a bit torn for my usual urging to do it anyway.  However, she is well aware when she steps out the door without permission, day or night, the police are being involved. Rather then us chasing around to all her "hot spots" or "hell spots" as I refer to them, we provide the names of all her friends she might be with as well as vehicle descriptions (mom has been known to photograph the license plate when she takes off in someone's vehicle).

Sometimes this works as a deterrent sometimes it doesn't.  Police department in Mom's hometown seldom does much and Mom feels somewhat embarrassed when it sometimes happens 3 or 4 times a week and she's being defiant and returns home in 4 hours.  Police in my hometown do react and usually call surrounding towns to notify other departments of spots she might be and she usually returns quickly after getting the word that a friend or two has gotten a visit from the police looking for her. My local police department also requires when she returns that I take her to the police station so they can "insure she is safe and with us" and question her to be sure she wasn't kidnapped by anyone against her will and usually have a few words to say about her actions.

Some other boundaries we put in place:

If she threatens or attempts suicide we will immediately call authorities and begin involuntary commitment to hospitalization.

If she "runs" or leaves without permission we call police.

If we find out she's using drugs or illegal substances and know who is supplying it we will provide the names of said "friends" to authorities.

Not sure if any of this helps or if it's right wrong or indifferent.

A great resource to read that was suggested to me here on the board and I've digested it over last week or two is a book called:

"Boundaries, when to say yes, How to say no and take control of your life" by Henry Cloud and John Townsend

Hope you find your son quickly and safely and sending thoughts and prayers for you and your family.

ARGH! I just wrote this whole big post and was timed out.  I'll try again...

Thank you both for the advice. I particularly like crumblingdad's ideas about taking license plate pics and turning in the dealer.  My ds usually refers to his friends by last name or nick name, but some of them I know their whole names... bet facebook would tell me :-)

Latest update is that I was able to get in touch with a friend I figured he was with... he confirmed he was and I asked him to have my ds call me.  Well, he called me about ten minutes later and I told him we'd been worried about him and didn't know where he was.  He replied 'That's GREAT'... read sarcastic/overjoyed tone.  I said it's not great and I wish you would have at least called to let us know your plan... expected response 'well you took my phone so I couldn't call'.  To which I reminded him that he was calling me now from someone elses phone so... it was possible to find a way! Not much response there... he told me he'd be home 'sometime today'.  I tried to tell him to come home soon, but he was distracted by whoever else was there and hung up... or appeared to be distracted. So... after 2pm and still no show.  At least I know he's 'safe'.

I have a question for crumblingdad and Being Mindful... if you are calling police 3 or 4 times a week and your kids are still exhibiting the same behaviors, is it really very effective? It gives them more attention/drama and maybe reinforces to them that they are a bad kid.  I'm not saying they don't have bad behaviors... certainly mine does... but is it helpful to continually remind them/reinforce the 'I'm a bad kid so I must do bad things' mind set?  Maybe it is the right thing to do... I'm just trying to figure out if the impact is enough or if it's just more work and agony for us.

I actually may call the officer at the high school that we have met a few times.  My ds was being bullied quite seriously by one kid freshman year, and this officer was a 'safe place' for him.  He then came to our house one day after school when my ds had destroyed our house in a rage... shocked that such a 'nice kid' could do such things.  That was his first hospitalization.  Maybe he can direct me to some support for the truancy issues at school etc. Maybe will have some advice. Worth a shot!

Thanks again for the help... To be continued...

In my opinion it has been somewhat effective.  She never runs from my home.  She throws fits and rages when I refuse to let her go do things with friends when I think it's dangerous but she won't run from my home because she knows the police here will look for her and stop at all her friends house.  She says she hates dealing with the police.

At her mom's it's a different story because they really do nothing to look for her - the one time they did they found her and she was furious.  Since she believes they don't bother to look she will walk right past her mom out the door, climb out window at night etc.  The stigma with her circle of friends, who are all trouble and involved in illegal substances, when police show up at their homes is something that really bothers her.  She's said more then once we are "ruining" her reputation with her friends because cops show at their homes.  Since these friends are trouble (and the few that aren't she doesn't run to their homes when she's taking off) I don't mind if they choose not to hang around with her because we are a giant pain in the butt trying to keep her safe.

Also feel it's  liability issue as a minor and as parents we are responsible till 18.  I 'd much rather the police be fully aware we are taking every step we can (even if they don't always help)to keep her out of trouble and safe then have her doing something illegal and get a call from police where we tell them we haven't seen her in 24 hrs and didn't do anything about it even though she was roaming the streets with her friends at night.

In my opinion whatever the reasons she may be "rebelling" or running or whatever if she's roaming streets at night it's not safe and if I don't know where she is I can only assume she could be in danger and so therefore this is a boundary I will not compromise.

I willl say it's exhausting and certainly don't know if I can define "effective" with anything we do since she's struggling with heroin addiction and hospitalized but at the end of the day all we can do is make the decisions we feel are best and love them unconditionally while trying to support them positively and keep them safe.  That may not seem like it's enough sometimes but it's all we have.

Hope to hear that your son is home safe soon.  Have you spoken to the parents of friend where he is to let them know what he's up to?

Thanks for the reply crumblingdad.  So sorry to hear about what you are going through with your daughter.  It sounds like maybe she's getting some much needed help though, so that's a good thing.  Those are some really great points and things to think about.  Still no child home. This sucks. I'm seeing some hospitalization in his near future. I'm sure that'll fix the problem with not wanting to go to school.  Great timing.

Just an update: He called this morning from a friends phone and asked me to pick him up.  As I was doing so he called again and asked me to give a friend a ride home.  I should have said no... or taken the car that didn't have room to do so. I didn't. I took the friend home and I was silent the entire ride home.  I told him he should take a shower, he ofc ignored me and went up to his room.  Told his friend as he was leaving that he'd 'probably see him tomorrow'.  Said friend doesn't go to the same school... always amazes me that they think they can do anything... gonna be another fun week.

I'm wondering how it makes you feel when your son does this?

I know when my son was this age I was too afraid of provoking an argument, or of him getting in a rage to set boundaries and insist he did certain things like call me if he wasn't going to be home that night etc.

I wish I had done more to convey consistently to him that his behavior while living in my house had to conform to certain basic rules not just for him but for everyone. I was just avoiding an issue that wouldn't go away and just got worse as he had no respect for me at all.

The first time the police ever showed up at my house, he called them on us... .he was 16 and was in a rage, threatening me with a kitchen knife and hurting one of his brothers who tried to intervene. I ended up sitting on him (sounds ridiculous I know) just to stop him hurting himself  so he called the police to report me. I was Mortified that the police had to come to my house but in a weird way it was a good lesson for me to realize how used to dealing with adolescents the police are, and how it set up a precedent and a record with the county mental health people about my son's issues.

Now he's 22 and I have no hesitation if I see him and he gets in a rage about saying I will call the police. He needs to understand that he can't just walk all over me and his dad.

Is there anyone you can talk to about how to put some boundaries in place with your son, or is it just something you're not comfortable with yet?

Kate4Queen

I obviously don't like calling the police, however, it's not because I'm afraid of what he will do.  I just don't want to use valuable resources if it's unnecessary.  The first time I did call the police, he was in a destructive rage in my house, and I was alone with him.  I called the police to come as he was doing property damage and out of control.  There was a time prior to that when he was raging on a smaller scale, but did end up pushing me... and then stopped.  At this point, we told him that if he ever starts destroying property or is physically harming someone, we will call.  So, when it happened again, I followed through and it led to his first hospitalization.  This weekends situation was a new one.  We have set up boundaries in that if he's out on a school night, he's to be home by 10, weekend it's 11.  We've enforced this right along.  Over the summer he basically hermited in his room and didn't go out with his friends... one of them had stolen something of his and so he was 'all done' with them.  He went back to school, saw them again, and decided to see them again I guess.  Last week was the first time he has ever skipped school, he then wouldn't answer calls or texts so when he returned we took his phone and told him that behavior was not ok and that he needs to let us know where he is... and obviously he can't skip school.  There was very little time for a calm conversation between Thursday night and Friday and to make our expectations clear.  Then he just never came home Friday. I had a general idea where he was, knew he had no money and that he'd be home eventually.  I don't want to put ideas of things he should do in his head, that he's never done before.  So, I wouldn't say something like... 'if you don't come home, I'll be calling the cops'.  Because he'll test that limit... it's part of what our kids do.  So yes, in some ways it's a delicate line to prevent things from happening.  He's calm now and apologized for skipping school and not coming home/contacting us all weekend.  We let him know it wasn't ok and I asked if this meant he won't do it again.  He said yes... of course I'm sure he will do it again, and we will have further discussion about what the repercussions will do.  I think those discussions need to happen in spurts though... and sometimes it's good when it happens with the family therapist present.  I know we will talk about it when she comes this week.  In general, yes, if he doesn't like what he's hearing, he yells and screams and swears and calls us names, but it doesn't mean we don't say it because he is listening... even if he doesn't want to hear it.

The added complication of our family situation is that we are not his bio parents.  my dh is his Guardian and uncle and I am 'the b**" my guardian married'.  His mom passed away when he was a year old and his dad took off when she got sick.  My dh has raised him and I met him when he was 6.  So respect as 'parents' is hard to come by in a normal situation... add this and there really isn't much there.  Abandonment issues and the push/pull of that is abundant.  We know we have to be very clear about the boundaries, and we are. We really try not to 'threaten' that 'if you do x, we will do y'.  That doesn't really work in all cases... in some cases it does... for example... 'if you break x, we will not buy you a new x'.  He's broken several phones purposely because he wants a new one... we don't play that. So no, not afraid of setting boundaries, just wasn't sure we were at calling the police yet.  We likely will if this happens again though.

It's really tough, isn't it?

I have to say that I had to end up doing things that I never thought I'd have to do to a child I loved. We spent one summer with my kid home permanently grounded at age 15, we'd taken away everything, and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference because at that point, unlike you, we didn't know what we were dealing with.

You're right there is no point being confrontational because they just panic and my kid would just do the worst thing he could think of in that moment of terror which just escalated all the conflicts.

I've just had to learn to detach his anger from me, which is really hard and just be calm and firm and keep saying the same thing. I did find my son was at his worst at 16/17 and then it got a little bit less violent and more on the verbal evisceration.

It's a bit of a tough learning curve. :)

Hello,

Just a few comments that I hope are helpful... .

You and your son are important and are not a waste to the valuable resources that the police have to offer. In fact, your son is worth it and so are you. It is important that your son know and firmly know that you will do whatever it takes to keep him safe. He is not safe when he does this, it most probably is against curfew laws and it puts incredible amounts of stress on the rest of the family. You may want to check your local laws too for not calling and reporting a missing minor.

Can I ask what consequences is he currently facing for not coming home?

If you set the limits and tell him that you will call the police if he doesn't come home, you said you are afraid that he will test that limit. Yes, that is what all teens do, especially our BPD teens but that doesn't mean that we don't provide structure, rules and expectations. Life is learning boundaries, rules, and expectations. Teens test that and they need to feel and experience the consequences.

I hope I don't sound harsh because I don't mean to. I think I recognize myself in your posts here. A few years ago I was here too and being so afraid of making any moves or decisions. I was afraid to enforce boundaries because of the consequences for my d and for me. I lost valuable time in this stage in helping my daughter. As soon as I started to consistently enforce boundaries, rules and expectations, things got worse at first but that was the turn around with my d.

Being Mindful

Hi,

Looking back over the school years, I wish I had been more understanding of dd. I wish Id let her stay home more, I gave her a hard time instead. School treated her like she was a rebellious teen      

It never got us anywhere.

Age 16 was probably the worse time for her, she started a college, she would get on a bus and cry all the way there, then she would realise she couldnt go in like that, so she would wonder the streets, I never found out for 3 weeks. She tried to cope in her own way and it didnt work.

When I think about it now, she must have felt so alone even so unloved.

Hi

We definitely have supports in place for him at school if he's feeling overwhelmed.  There are a couple of professionals he trusts and has carte blanche to visit at any point in his day.  He's allowed to go to guidance and just sit and chill out if he needs to.  This has been helpful in the past for him.  Our family therapist has already been in touch with them this year to ensure this is still available and encouraged.  Additionally, he used to have the family therapist visit him once a week at school, which he also seemed to find helpful... at least for a good period of time.

What consequences would you all suggest besides calling police... again, I'm not ruling it out.  Just curious what has been helpful.  At this point, short of handcuffing him to me and walking around with him all day, I'm not really sure what else we can do.  He's sly and seizes the opportunities he sees... such as getting a ride 'to school' with friends and then not actually going to school.  I'm not even sure that skipping school is a planned event for him, or if he's doing it because the kids he's with are leading the charge.  The school doesn't let us know so I don't find out until it's too late.  Or getting a ride home from school with friends, but not actually coming home.  These are also new behaviors this week, so I'm sorry if I didn't act as quickly or as hysterically as maybe I should have as I really had no idea what the best course of action was... He seemed 'sorry' yesterday and said this wouldn't happen again and was looking for hugs etc.  It's definitely that roller coaster thing and I didn't believe he was truly sorry or wouldn't do it again.  I'm not sucked in that easily anymore.  I didn't let on that I didn't believe him. 

This morning I asked him what his plans were after school and what he needed to do.  He promised he'd come right home.  We reminded him he needed to follow the rules before he could get his phone and electronics back.  He has a new gf that lives an hour away and that's how he communicates with her so it seemed like a bit of motivation.  Obviously not.  At this point, we are actually thinking of having him hospitalized again. 

Thanks for listening (reading?)

I don't think you have any reason to apologize - clearly you're doing everything you can to love and care for him. 

You note he "seems" sorry and was apologetic.  I have little doubt he is as this is the typical BPD cycle.  They make irrational unsafe decisions and do so often impulsively.  Once they've done it they're apologetic and typically feel tremendous guilt and truly are sorry but the guilt often torments them feeding into their self hatred.  Unfortunately they often then act out, act impulsively again, self harm etc as part of their feelings of guilt, rage, self loathing and the pain they feel as a result.   It's an exhausting painful and frustrating cycle for all.  One of the great opportunities for relief for myself has been reading and reading and reading all the materials on BPD both here on this board and resources recommended here to try to understand my daughters behavior so I can best react in the most supportive and structured way possible.  It seems by your presence here you are doing everything within your power to help him as well.  Keep up the dialogue.

Your son is fortunate to have someone in his corner providing the love and support you are giving him.

Hi BPDteensmom,

I'm late to the discussion but wanted to stick my nose in.

It seems to me you have a calm response to the situation you face, congratulations. I would have been tearing my hair out. You obviously understand your son rather well, I think having the family therapist must be a great support to you.

I was a teacher, year level co-ordinator etc etc although way across the seas in Australia. In my experience attendance issues are very important but a pain in the proverbial to deal with for a number of reasons. Nonetheless, I think you could ring the school and ask them to keep an eye on your son's attendance and to ring you before lunch if he has not turned up to class. If you ask them to do this for a 2 week period only and emphasise the importance to you, then you may have some help there. You can then monitor his attendance more rigorously.

See, you have a window of opportunity while you son is your legal responsibility. The teen years are so important for brain development and because we can see that BPD is possibly a deficit of neural pathways between the amydala and prefrontal cortex, the teen years are a chance to lay foundations for a better future. Of course they are the years when everything really seems to go haywire too... .

I think your dilemma is what do you do to meet your legal and moral responsibilities and maintain a realistic sense of control. It is a tightrope.

Being Mindful offered some wise advice that is worth considering.

For what it's worth, I would like to point out that the boundaries you set depend on your values; a key to understanding what your boundaries mean is to understand what your values are. If respect is a value for you, then it seems to me that your son has treated you with considerable disrespect. The consequences of a boundary should relate to the value underlying that boundary, your responsibilities and the consequences of not enforcing that boundary.

You did not call the police, so your son knows nothing of that as a possible consequence. If you removed his phone and electronics as a consequence for breaking that boundary, you would have needed to spell out the relationship between the boundary and the consequence so that he could understand the relationship between the two. The purpose of a consequence is not so much to 'punish' but to show the natural consequences of an action - our BPD kids simply struggle to accept responsibility for their actions and have great difficulty understanding how their behaviour affects others, we need to spell it out while we can.

It seems to me that your lad will do the same again because there is no reason not to. I am not sure that hospitalisation is the answer either. The hospitals are a great place to learn bad habits from others in the hospital. Is your son in any form of treatment?

crumblingdad advises reading up and 'studying' the material and resources we have... .and engaging with us in dialogue. Excellent advice I think. This is how you will come up with the answers you need.

Hope I haven't added to the confusion,

cheers,

Vivek    

Hi BPDteensmom,

I am also coming to this conversation late. It's good to hear he was safe... .

I think you've got some great advice here already. Validation and boundaries are the basic and most important tools for us to use. I just want to pitch in and say that I agree with the approach of consistently enforcing clear boundaries through consequences. If the consequences make sense, and are an incentive for improved behavior rather than presented as punishment, there's better chance for cooperation.

Example:

Calling the police presented as 'We are responsible for your safety. When we don't know where you are, we don't know you are safe. The police will be called if we don't know where you are to ensure your safety.'

The phone can be an incentive/privilege based on fulfilled responisbilities. 'It is your responsibility to let us know where you are and come home as agreed. As long as you can do that, you can have a phone of your own.'

Your son is 16 so you still have a chance to set some new patterns in place before he can walk out of the house and self-destruct as an adult.

On the other hand it's a good thing to educate yourself first and have your boundaries and consequences well thought through before putting them in place including strategies for when he will push back against them.

Here's a couple of links that you might find helpful (they are from the ":)iscussions" that you can find at the top of this board):

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries)

BPD Behaviors: Extinction Burst and Intermittent Reinforcement? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0)

And - don't be too hard on yourself, you are a loving, caring parent!   

Thank you to all who have weighed in on this.  The advice has been helpful and has helped me to stay grounded in this.

Last night, we had a serious discussion when he came home.  My dh let him know that he would be going to school in the morning, and that he would be taking the bus and not getting a ride with his friend (who is a chronic skipper of school which doesn't help).  He further told him that if he goes out and does not come back or we don't know where he is, we will call the police, and we took crumblingdads advice and let him know we'd be letting the police know who the kids were that provide him with weed.  My husband then named a couple of them so it was clear he was serious.  He also told him that if he refuses to get up in the morning to school, we would also call the school officer, and that regardless, we would be letting the school officer know that he's been skipping school. Even though he appeared and said he didn't care, he got the message.

The morning played out as such: I woke him up, he grumbled and swore, my dh gave him ten minutes to get out of bed and called him again.  He got ready for school... slow enough to miss the bus... but in time for us to be able to drop him off in time for school.  The goal was get him to school and since he made forward motion, and was willing to go with us, we didn't feel calling the authorities was necessary.  Us driving him isn't ideal, but it seems the lesser of the evils.  Maybe it even relieves a little pressure for him. 

Additionally, I called the school and spoke to the aforementioned officer and explained all that had been going on and asked for his assistance in at least keeping him in his sights and on his radar.  He's a great guy and was sad to hear what had been going on, and happy to help.  I also called the guidance counselor to give her a heads up about the skipping school and what has been going on as she has been quite involved and supportive.  The officer had already spoken to her, and they are both separately meeting with him and making sure some supports are in place that should have been already.

We talked about some other options from a legal staNPDoint if he continues to skip school... something called a CHINS agreement... which is actually now called a CRA.  I'm not sure its the answer, and hope it doesn't come to this.  Because he is 16, it means that we would have to file it instead of the school... and I can't really see that being helpful.

Also, Vivek , thank you for the perspective on the boundaries... I hadn't quite thought of it exactly in the way you put it. Also, what kind of treatment do you mean? He does have a psychiatric prescriber of meds, a 1:1 therapist and a family therapist, so that's where we are currently in terms of treatment.  The family therapist has been a HUGE support for my dh and I... not really sure we could have gotten through this past year without her... I think we'd be in a much worse position.  Thank you for the links, I will read them.  I have been doing a lot of reading, but sometimes have to stop as it gets a little overwhelming.

Thanks again!

One more thing to add... Vivek , you said that I was calm during the situation, and I think you meant while he was gone? I definitely acquired more gray hairs for sure... just got me thinking about it and I think one of the reasons we weren't pulling our hair out is that despite the fact that his friends are not great influences in terms of school skipping and seemingly have a 'long leash' or 'no leash at all' from their parents... they actually do seem to take care of him and I actually have kept a decent relationship with a couple of them... you see my ds is a bicycle racer, and the friends he has all ride bikes... not race them, but ride them... and during last school year, they used to go ride bikes after school around town together... and my boy didn't like to ride his bike home in the dark (tho they'd all been doing it and didn't care that much) so he'd usually call me before his curfew and ask me to pick them up at one of a few places they hung out (my car has the bike rack to fit the bikes and the boys).  Yes, I picked them up when he called just about every time as at least I knew they were getting home safely and now I know where his friends live... .  I became 'second mom' and inevitably I got a couple of their phone numbers if my boys phone died or something and they had mine.  SO to make a long story longer... one evening my boy was having a particularly difficult time... had stopped taking  his meds and it had come to a head this one night... His friends called me and told me he was not doing well and they were trying to calm him but were worried.  My dh got to him in 5 minutes and found the boys standing by the side of the road with mine in a crumpled, crying mess on the ground.  Not hurt... just 'done'. 

I continue to drive these kids home when asked and when I can... and they know how to find me.  It's not foolproof, but it helps us feel comfort knowing if he ever takes off on them and he seems unsafe, they'll let me know.  In fact, he's called me for rides other times and when I've shown up for the 'crew', something might set him off when I get there (his friend wants front seat... etc) and he's taken off on his bike towards home... and I ride his friends home anyway.  and they have shown me nothing but respect.

Obviously I'm responsible for him, not them, but it's an extra comfort that he's with them

hey BPDtm, it sounds like you are doing really good. Having the contacts with your boy's friends is so helpful and that they are respectful of you is so good. Well done!

Also it seems your ds has some good therapeutic resources in hand. Do you know what sort of treatment they are tending to use? DBT? Mentalisation? I assume the family therapist sees you, dh and ds and works on creating the home environment that is supportive, yes? That's sounds so positive. I don't know if it's of any value to know what sort of treatment is being used, but I would want to know so I could study up on it... .My rationale is that I expect my dd to change her thinking processes and her behaviour, so in order to appreciate what she has to do (so I understand more), I would want to undertake the same sort of process, and then we are on the same page. I am not saying that you should though, I am just thinking out aloud.

You appear to have done some good work on boundaries... .these things are practices and they require practise   it's a case of learning by doing ... .and a way for you to change your own thinking and behaviours to have a beneficial effect on teaching your son how to manage for himself also. There is much we can all learn about boundaries I think.

It's good to see you working closely with the school also. When there is a co-ordinated approach, a lot can be achieved.

I said you sounded calm because many of us in situations such as you face, find ourselves tearing our hair out and struggling to keep a sense of balance. Obviously you have put in lots of good work with the therapist and this has helped you keep a sense of perspective. Keep up the good work and keep in touch, let us know how the boundary stuff goes.

cheers,

Vivek      

Thanks Viv... it's an ongoing process as we all know.

His new therapist will be doing DBT with him.  We requested it when we learned the old therapist was not going to be able to see him anymore... starting her own practice and doesn't take his insurance... plus... not really effective anymore.  Our family therapist has been trying to do some mindfulness with us and other techniques I've since read about here.

In terms of calm... I've worked in Human services for most of my adult life... so I'm used to remaining calm in a crisis... this, contrary to popular belief, does NOT mean I have the answers when it comes to my own child.  However, I think it helps in these situations... sometimes... sometimes I feel like I'm the irrational, out of control one... and other times I wonder if I have become numb to it all... I don't think I really have, but I certainly think I shut down if it all gets too much.  Thats when I have to find the things that make me feel centered again. It's a huge struggle for sure. 

One of the things I teach is the three states of mind emotional, logical and integrated.

Apparently,  when there is a crisis, we go into logical mind, well most of us do anyway. I thought that would be a good thing, I didnt even realise I was doing that until I thought of it.

But the best thing to be in is integrated mind so that you can have the empathy and the emotions you need too.

There was me thinking I was really so level headed just going into logical mind when dd was falling about all over the place.

I know this sounds a bit weird but BPD has taught me much about how to be a better person. Yes, it's a huge struggle, but it's worth it for our children and for ourselves. And here at bpdfamily we can do it together 

Take care

Vivek    

I agree with you Viv, but, you know, I was ok the way I was, I didnt want to learn haha :)

Now, it seems that I am so understanding I have a lot of followers of people with mental health problems, haha

Seriously, I speak to so many people then they tell me they have depression or something like that. So sad how common it is. I think I would have been unaware if it wasnt for my dd.

Hmmmm not sure if thats a good thing

Hi BPDteensmom!


You are doing great! We do need to take it one step at a time - there is a lot to absorb. It takes time.

|iiii

Your startegy in knowing your sons friends is a wise one in my opinion.

It sounds like you have put some good starter boundaries and rules in place with your son, and it's good that he has a therapist.

All in all it looks like you have the basics covered, and it is just a matter of time and working through it all.

Hello,

You mentioned your son's therapist will be doing DBT with him. Will your son be in a DBT skills group also? When my BPD.d was in DBT, my dh and myself participated with her in a DBT skills group. This was hugely beneficial for my husband and me. We learned a ton.

Being Mindful

I know I am coming to the party late but I think you have the right track... .my dd has run away several times... .we started calling the police and very prepared for her to go to juvie... .she did finally stop and hasn't run in some time but always seems to replace one bad coping skill with another.

Have you considered online school? A different kind of school? Does your school district have another campus that focuses on kids who are at risk of dropping out. I hope he comes around... .

I think that if they cannot replace a bad coping skill with a good one, then replacing a bad one with one that is less bad/harmful is a victory of some sort.

How can we subtly influence their choice of coping skills and help them to choose better and better each time?

Being Mindful... I'll ask about the skills group... I'm not sure but great tip!

As far as online school is concerned, our district doesn't offer it.  Additionally, we can't see it working all that well.  Last year he was failing his science class... basically he just refused to participate... even though he LOVED the teacher and is good at science.  So, they offered to let him finish the class online.  He thought this would be a great option... he'd missed a lot of school due to hospitalizations and manipulated his way to not having to do any work while there so that when he returned, he reportedly felt overwhelmed... and I think he probably was.  He was told he could drop the class, or do the work online.  He didn't want to drop it because of the teacher, so he agreed to the online thing.  I think he logged on once.  He'd go to class every day, but basically just sat there for half the semester doing nothing.  He ended up failing the class.  So, he was offered this for ONE class and I can't imagine an entire year of school with all of his subjects would be super helpful.  He's just focused on finding ways to not go or just not go to classes. 

He hasn't skipped school since the school officer spoke to him, but he's visiting guidance and the school social worker a lot during certain classes and basically missing them.  I see the pattern reoccurring all over.  The school hasn't been super helpful with other options, and he's not on an IEP, so the schools that would benefit him, he doesn't qualify for... and I'm not sure that he'd be successful in an environment where the kids have more behavioral issues... although, I'm told that finding the 'right' school would be helpful.  We are kind of between a rock and a hard place.  At 16, he can't drop out without parental consent and my dh has been very clear that dropping out is not an option.  He was quite adamant about it and believes this is a tool our boy needs to move forward.  I think this is one of those things where it is a value he's enforcing... .if I'm understanding them correctly.  If we had other school options besides online, we'd definitely explore... and have looked into other things, but most places require that IEP. Just taking it a day at a time at this point.

One other thing... we spoke about the school issues last week with the family therapist.  Our boy was ADAMANT that he needs 1 on 1 attention at school and that if the teacher isn't talking directly to him, he's not going to listen.  He's good with the material up to the point that he doesn't understand something, and then he feels he can't do it.  I suggested after school help to get the 1 on 1 attention he feels he needs and his response was 'I have to go to that school and sit there all day... do you really think I want to spend extra time there AFTER school?'.  Part of me feels sympathetic as I'm sure it's not easy for him (though school was never a problem for him in terms of the work... rarely had to study for tests to do well).  Part of me feels like he is just making excuses to not go to school and has decided he can't do this and will prove to everyone that will listen that he's not paying attention.  All. or. nothing.

Hm... .you might be onto something. Do you think there is a way for you to figure out if there ARE real difficulties, or if these are just excuses?

Perhaps if he understands that you are trying to help him, but not going to school is not an option; And also if he ends up wasting time and failing, he will still have to go; he might decide to cooperate? I am not sure, just putting in my two cents... .

Hi BPDteensmom,

When I was teaching I often saw boys like yours - and they didn't have BPD that I knew either. They are able to slip under the radar easily in a classroom if they present no discipline problem. Calling them to account with homework or classwork not done is almost impossible. It's classic situation of dragging a horse to water and the horse although thirsty, not drinking.

Your boy does not value learning or school and that it perhaps what is underlying this attitude. I assume that's so, because he doesn't seem to have any learning difficulties. I wonder what his friends perspective on school is... .

I believe the answer to this situation lies in boundaries... .but I can be persuaded elsewise. What I am thinking is that you value education and learning so you expect your ds to attend school, participate and fulfil his potential. Personally I also believe that it is better for your son to have the structured environment that school provides. Your ds it seems is engaged in a 'power struggle' his attitude to school is 'anti authoritarian'. He wants to do what he wants... .but of course, he would have great difficulty in articulating what he wants.

So, I am wondering... .can you ask him what he wants out of life? Does he want to travel the world? Does he want to marry and raise a family? Does he want to be looked up to as a strong man living a good life, with a good job? Does he know what sort of career he wants? I expect that he will say, 'I don't know' to much of this. If that's so, you can say that when you do know, you can work towards achieving those goals, but while you don't know how you will be a strong independent young man with a future, you will make the decisions for him. And the way that you know he can achieve his goals later in life is by taking advantage of the opportunity school and education provides.

The problem with this is that it is all logic. Somehow, so in order to do it so it makes better sense, you need to recognise the emotions eg 'do you think it would be exciting to travel the world? Having a family of your own is a great source of pride and happiness, do you want a family of your own? Going out into the world and earning a living helps you feel so in control of life, doing a good days work helps you really feel proud. Have you an idea what sort of career you want? Being a man in todays world is a real challenge, when we see a young man who is strong and living a good life, we can admire his achievements. How can your life be a good life, have you thought of that?'

As I say, I am not sure of this, make it makes sense to me... .

Finally, I would be seen as often as possible at the school, so the teachers and administration knew me and my concerns... .Or perhaps it would be better if it was your dh who did this?

cheers,

Vivek    

Thanks Viv

Lately... .well actually for a long time... I've felt that this school doesn't really care whether or not their kids graduate or drop out.  I don't feel like they follow through with their own rules consistently, and I'm sure my boy knows this.  I've seen him work the system like a fiddle.  He's clever in how he plays the administration.

It's true, in class he doesn't cause a ruckus if he's not paying attention, he just puts his head down and sleeps.  At least he reports he does this... but I know he doesn't cause a ruckus in class.  I get frustrated because we've met with the school so many times, and there are people that have been good resources for us, but others that seem to do the exact opposite of what they say they will.  I emailed the guidance counselor... one of the helpful ones... this week and told her I notice by looking online that he's skipping classes, and perhaps he's bouncing back and forth between the school social worker and her... and if so, if they could work together to get him back to class, that would be good.  He's done this before, so it's not a new concept and something they should be aware of.  As it turns out, the teachers weren't filling out a report when he wasn't showing up to class and weren't dealing with him... so he was just not going to classes.  Well, it so happens that he skipped a class that morning and the assistant principal (who has been in all the meetings but is completely clueless and really hurting the situation) caught him so she then apparently had seen my email and finally decided that this was an issue and called me.  Today he got a detention for skipping classes. So, she must have spoken to his teachers.  Finally.  How can they not notice a kid not showing up to school or class consistently? Schools been in session for 3 weeks and he's been to his history class ONCE!

Anyway, some of what you've said we've actually spoken to him about along with the family therapist.  He doesn't have goals because he doesn't think he'll be alive long enough to fulfill them.  It takes 'too much effort' to achieve anything or try to accomplish something. It's hard for him to see that far ahead. 

" If that's so, you can say that when you do know, you can work towards achieving those goals, but while you don't know how you will be a strong independent young man with a future, you will make the decisions for him. And the way that you know he can achieve his goals later in life is by taking advantage of the opportunity school and education provides"

I like that a lot. We've been talking about control with him in family therapy... .well... talking... he's pretending not to listen... but he's definitely trying to be in control and make the decisions and be independent.  He doesn't ask if he can go out, he just says, I'm going out or don't make plans for me saturday because I'm doing xyz.  So I like this take on things. I'll see if I can try it.

Pessim-optimist... he's been evaluated for an IEP, and his scores were above average on most of the academic/learning things.  He had a neuro-psych eval not too long ago too... didn't really talk about the learning piece, but basically there don't seem to be any learning disabilities in the traditional sense.  My feeling is that he's always been very bright and learning and taking tests/remembering things always came very easy to him.  At some point, the material began to get more difficult and required him to work a little bit to retain the information, and he would just give up at the slightest difficulty.  In fact, he admitted tonight that if there's something he's trying to learn and he doesn't get it right away, he just gives up.  This means he won't work at it... if he doesn't get it, he's all done with it and won't go back.  It's been an interesting journey with his bicycle racing too... .he enjoys it more so he will get back on if he falls off... but he doesn't push himself most of the time.  The internal motivator is not there...

Hi there,

The problems at the school I am familiar with. I would say there is very poor leadership - the teachers are hamstrung with poor leadership and with someone like your beautiful boy, it's just too hard. Is there a school that could be a better alternative? If so, that might be worth investigating.

It's your boundaries that need a bit of focus for you. Have you read this?

"Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend

It comes with excellent recommendations.


Vivek      

Dear BPDteensmom:

Here in Canada, there was a major issue with a young lady, Raetah Parsons, who committed suicide after being cyber-bullied etc and then changing schools several times.  :)ebra Pepler, a globally-renowned academic in the field of bullying was asked to formulate recommendations for the Nova Scotian government as a result of the public outcry.  She said succinctly that lack of consistent school attendance needs to be a red flag for emerging mental health issues.  Period.

The school is dropping the ball.  I like Vivek ananda's idea of your husband contacting the school.  Perhaps even better would be your husband and you meeting together with all school personnel involved to make sure everyone is accountable.  A physical meeting with simple agreed-upon strategies.  How will the teachers be informed of the plan of action?  Your child doesn't appear, the teacher contacts you and your dh right away.  Consequences... .if your son misses ONE class.

IMHO, your son needs to be home after school on school days.  If he is smoking pot with friends, he will find it difficult to do school the next day.  Your son sounds highly intelligent.  He is used to learning being easy. He is probably more advanced in his thinking than many of his peers.  Nonetheless, he has to do the boring, jump through the hoops of high school.  It is his job until he has finished.  He needs to gain full credits each year.  This loosey-goosey approach in many schools of gaining less credits than expected is wrong because teen-agers need very strong structure and expectations.  They question enough, without this additional slackness.  

He doesn't need a hospital.  He needs to go to school and stay away from his drug friends, who don't go to school.

Pine River Institute in Ontario helps kids who become de-railed: school attendance is always an issue.  Isolation from family, then friends... . These are very seriously ill kids.  They give them old-fashioned limits, help them complete high school and feed them well and make sure they exercise tons.  Ages 13 to 19.  80% success rate.  Old-fashioned, kind expectations.

Your dd's biking is awesome.  I bet you make nutritious meals.  He needs to be there every evening to eat them.  Then, he needs to be at home all night to do his homework.  If he can't do that or won't, he needs a residential treatment facility where they will provide the support he needs to get his work accomplished: completing each school year successfully.  

Looking back, it was de-railing from school, which was the beginning of the descent for my son.  Sorry if I sound opinionated, but I trust Debra Peplar's expertise.  I am an educator and it makes total sense.  The highly-sensitive, brilliant ones can out-trick many, but they can't out-trick themselves when they start using substances.  They get caught.  They don't have the common sense to do the ordinary boring stuff.

If your son was bullied, he is very afraid and he is covering by avoiding.  He looks nasty when he acts out.  He is probably very terrified.  He needs to feel safe at the school, so that the bullying will not happen again.

The brain isn't hard-wired until 24.  He isn't capable of being mature.  He probably looks like he is and he may have lots of insight, but he needs to be sheltered from the crazy high school and friends.  The counsellors keeping him out of class are not showing much judgment. What do you think?

Sorry to go on... .

John McKinnon's books on failure to mature in adolescence may be helpful: An Unchanged Mind and To Change A Mind.  

Just painting a picture... .

Reality

Please understand that I brought up the Parsons case only to contextualize who Debra Pepler is.  Not that I think your son is suicidal.  She says red flag. 

Reality

They can give an IEP for emotional disorders as well as poor academic performance.

My eldest who is an Aspie didn't qualify for an IEP just passed everything.

#2 son with the physical disability and BPD got one in kindergarten

#3 son who had to deal with all the fall out of being the younger brother of the two above was given an IEP for emotional issues and auditory issues=so I wonder if you could push for that? Although it sounds like your school district just doesn't care either way.  (our school district was so high achieving that they were desperate to get any kid who wouldn't score well of their stats)

My son was convinced we were out to 'control' him too. He was also excellent at manipulating the school system to his advantage.

It's hard to know what to do when your kid looks at you and just states what they are going to do , isn't it?

I really admire your calm and composure.

I think it might be a combination of his high expectations of himself, fear of failure and some laziness as well, resulting in discouragement and low self-esteem. (I don't mention the lazines to put him down - I used to be really lazy at school and in general, as I was bright, and had to build my dilligence later in life   )

Maybe the therapist could come up with some strategies to slow building of confidence & self-esteem through activities that are interesting to your son and mildly challenging, so your son can experience that empowerment that comes from mastering something he did not know he could do, and also slowly build the attitude of perseverance?

Look into an IEP under OHI (Other Health Impairment). An IEP isn't solely based on academic functioning.

Wow... haven't been here in a bit... things have been a little crazy... we got a new puppy... I've decided taking care of a new puppy is way easier than taking care of a teenager HA!

We've also been doing some good work with our boy.  New therapist is good and cracking the whip on us parents... which has filtered into the family therapist pushing us to set and follow better boundaries too.  So, this week, we made two lists: 1 is his responsibilities, and consequences of not meeting said responsibilities.  The other is how he can earn money/allowance.  Very basic stuff.  The consequences are a three strike system... he hit all three strikes in one day today and then didn't come home.  So, we called the police, and they brought him home within an hour.  Hopefully, it scared/embarrassed him enough.  We shall see.  Thanks for all of your advice!

Wow, BPDteensmom! It sounds like you and your husband truly learned what you needed to, and did the right thing... .Good job! Sometimes a "brush with the law" can really change our child's attitude real quick. Keep us up-to-date, would you? I'm impressed with the fact that the therapists' advice was applied so quickly by you guys; sometimes our own impulses as parents can make things hard to do, and we are our own worst enemies! Sounds like you done good 

Thanks Rapt

It took a LOT of cajoling from therapists to get my husband to agree to call the police.  When we called Friday, it couldn't have been more validating for us that it was the right move.  Previously, he didn't want to bother the police with this as he felt they probably had real police work to do.  The officer on Friday night was great and very helpful/understanding. 

My boy was brought home by this officer, given a stern talking to and the deal is after 3 strikes, it's 4 days no going out with friends and no electronics.  Saturday and Sunday, he abided by these rules.  Today, he went to school and went out with his friends after without calling to say his plans and after cutting class.  3 more strikes, essentially means 4 more days.  We called the police again today, explained he didn't come home and we didn't know where he was (plus we were expecting a severe thunderstorm and he was out who knows where).  The officer came to the house and spoke to my husband as I was trying to get home (left early) from work.  He was not quite as helpful as Fridays and said to my dh... 'I have an 18 year old daughter, she hates me too'... as if we did nothing to prevent this and this was normal.  My dh explained he had mental health issues and was likely smoking weed and the whole thing.  The officer had asked for numbers of my boys friends so they could ping their phones and track them down.  When I got home, I called them to give this info, and the officer told me that he'd spoken to my dh about a CHINS but that my husband wasn't ready to do that yet... and then he told me to call my boys friends myself and that if I found out where he was, they'd go pick him up.  So, as frustrating as this was, I did contact the friend I assumed he was with who told me where to find them.  I called the officer back, to give the info and he told us to go pick him up and 'do some parenting'.  This was the reason my dh didn't want to call them in the first place.  It was very disheartening and frustrating.  By the time my dh did go to pick him up, the boys had left the location they said they were at, and I had to get all 'tough' with his friend and let him know I wasn't messing around and he needed to bring him back.  He did and my dh brought him home.  High of course.

It really sucks. When you have a BPD teen, you work so hard to stop blaming yourself and stop feeling like a terrible parent and like you've done something wrong in raising them... only to have people like this officer and the school turn around and blame you.  Intellectually, I know we aren't to blame... not even biologically... but emotionally, these moments make me feel defeated.  We will stand back up, and stand our ground and yes, we will likely file a CHINS and then it will be a whole new level of drama... and then the state will try to tell us we suck as parents too... but if doing these things helps this child survive in the real world, then I don't see that we have a choice but to continue to educate ourselves and others. 

End rant :-)

hi BPDteensmum, you must have felt a fair bit downhearted with all that. It is disheartening when we try our best and feel as if those who are supposed to be helpful leave us high and dry. I think we have all felt that in one way or another.

Maybe that officer was having a bad day, maybe another officer would have been better. It's hard to know what to do, what do your therapists say? Any advice from them?

You are right to keep your eye on the ball. Our children need to learn how to survive in the real world and we need to allow them to learn. I am sure your ds knows that his behaviour is not a smart way to live, but needs to find a circuit breaker to get him out of this habitual behaviour.

Vivek 

I have been down this road and used the authorities as a resource for help many times during crisis situations to hold my d accountable for her illegal actions and threats of illegal actions. 

It seems to me, from my experience, that the officer gave your husband advice to get your son into the system to address the root of the problem rather than keep your family in the current cycle where the police may feel that they are being used as a taxi service.  Would it have been more productive to tell the officer what your plan is to get your son help instead of a CHINS petition.  (I considered a CHINS petition and the limitations it carries and decided against it as well). 

The last time my d was threatening me and herself the deputy (at the station in the presence of a mental health advocate) told us that he could take her juvenile detention and asked if that is the course of action we wanted to take. I told him that our plan is to place her in RTC and that we were actively searching for the right program.  He needed to know that this cycle and use of them as a resource had a long term objective and that we as parents were doing our part.  The deputy issued her a citation and when I had the RTC chosen and the date of her arrival set I took the citation to a judge, explained the situation and he dismissed the ticket.

The short term objective is obvious (safety/obedience within the law/learning from consequences).

What is the long term objective for breaking this cycle with your son and using the authorities as a resource? 

How will a CHINS petition, should you decide to go that route, help reach your objective?

Thanks guys.  lbj... I really can't answer the question about the CHINS petition and how it will help us meet our goals.  I have to explore what our goals are at this point I guess?  I don't even know anymore.  We just want him to go to school and not make bad choices... or not make every single choice a bad one. 

My dh did try to file one today ironically, but apparently has to go to a specific courthouse... it was kind of a mess.  But now he's been arrested (see my other post) so it looks like he will have some sort of authorities involved anyway.  We will likely still file a CHINS... at least the authorities will be able to help us at that point.  It all feels very hopeless. 

Hi again BPDteensmom,

You give a fair answer. When we try to help our child and our approach does not work, it is at times puzzling, confusing, and frustrating. As we cannot put our lives on pause to figure things out, we keep trying, and sometimes we don't have a clear picture of what exactly we are aiming for.

It can feel hopeless, when you have tried all you knew, and it has not worked so far. I want to encourage you to take a step back to look at the situation, and make some sense of it. Even writing down what has not helped in the past, what has made things worse can be a road to solutions... .

Also, figuring out the goals in communicating with the authorities gives you a better opportunity to be more effective with them.