BPDFamily.com

Following on from my thread the other day about my ex uBPDbf suddenly getting contact after 9 months of NC,

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=209079.0

my head has been in overdrive all weekend, trying to work out what it all means and dealing with all the emotions and feelings suddenly flying around everywhere... .

In that thread one of you asked what I wanted from that contact, could I be just friends and that has got me thinking... .

Part of me holds on to that hope that since I am so much stronger now and I have dealt with a lot of my self esteem and other issues that allowed my to disrespect myself in the first place, plus he is in therapy and telling me he is determined to work through his issues, that maybe, just maybe, we could have a shot at making our relationship work.

I know that I still love him and care about him - despite everything that we have been through and it seems wrong to not explore the possibility that it could be different now... .

I thing one thing that has always stuck with me, is that I know he has a mental illness and that if I love him, part of that is loving him faults and all and sticking by him. I know if the situation was reversed, I would feel like I had been abandoned if someone walked out on me because I was struggling. If it was a physical illness, you just wouldn't walk away, so maybe his claims that I didn't support him were right on the money. It is getting the balance right between recognizing and accepting that much of his behavior is due to his illness and being able to help him understand that just because he is ill, doesn't give him the right to hurt me, that he does need to take responsibility for his actions.

I also recognize that my stuff no doubt contributed in a big way to our volatility and downfall and I know from the staying board, that some people are able to successfully use the many tools to help improve their relationships. Perhaps this could be an opportunity for me to learn better relationship behaviors as well?

So confused right now, I thought after 9 months I was doing pretty well with this all, but this contact has made me realize that I'm actually doing a great job of burying a whole lot of it rather than dealing with it... .Might be time for me to see a therapist to figure it out 

And what is the difference between rescuing someone and genuinely wanting to help and support someone you love, when they reach out to you and tell them they are struggling?

Maybe I should just stay NC or LC for a while and see how that pans out, to try and figure things out more... .Maybe my tending to be someone who sees the world through rose colored glasses is my undoing and why I got myself into a situation with someone that involved countless make-up/break-up cyles :/

You ask good questions.

"I thing one thing that has always stuck with me, is that I know he has a mental illness and that if I love him, part of that is loving him faults and all and sticking by him."

Unfortunately, this is a cruel illness whose sufferers make life difficult for the ones who love them most.  If you can set boundaries for getting back together with him, and make them specific and clear, then it might work.  Including telling him to get the right therapy.  I would love to hear some success stories too, particularly with BPD men.

The difference between a physical illness and BPD is their physical illness won't hurt you, where BPD will continuously hurt you, in attacking your self esteem and self confidence, at least if your r/s was anything like mine.

My experience is it will be worse the second time around, and the previous breakup is just more baggage in the relationship.  Also, a BPD is triggered by intimacy, so things may sound awesome as there is some distance between you and they aren't triggered, but that will all change if you get close again.

I dunno, the feelings are definitely mixed.  BPD is an attachment disorder, and they get extremely good at attaching to us, which feels great, and then the other show drops, the push/pull starts.  And of course their is our part, the susceptibility, the desire to rescue to feel needed and significant, the poor boundary maintenance.  Marriage made in hell.

I've focused on how it was at the end of the relationship, not the beginning, and the end was 100% unacceptable,  I was just thinking about how NONE of my needs were being met towards the end, and I'm an idiot for staying as long as I did, no, more fairly, I was emotionally enmeshed with a disordered person and didn't know which way was up.

Anyway, sounds like you've grown some, in between burying stuff as you say, and he's in therapy, so maybe it will be different.  If I was going to try again, which won't happen, I would need to enforce much stronger boundaries, and that wouldn't work.  A BPD's fear of abandonment motivates them to seek total control over their SO, which includes lots of boundary busting; I couldn't see us getting through one day, but we're obviously not you guys.  Good luck and keep us posted!

Lilybear,

That is an admirable thought and shows just what a caring heart you have.  The thing to remember, however, is that our pwBPD may not always give us the chance to love them unconditionally, due to their fear of abandonment, intimacy, and everything else we already know about their illness.  I told myself this constantly, that I would love my wife no matter what, and I stuck with her through a lot of crap in a very short period of time.  And she repaid me by leaving after a year-and-a-half of marriage and recycling with an ex. 

Just be careful and make sure you take care of yourself as you navigate this situation.

No.

They will only hurt you.

Again.

And again.

Each time a magnitude more then before.

I am still reeling from my foolish decision to let my exUBPDgf back into my life that second time.

I had been well into my healing when I got that text that night after 3 months if NC... .

Which I initially ignored... .

Followed by 17 more texts the following morning.

Which I ended up responding to... .

Which ultimately led to the pain that I am in now.

They will only hurt you.

The analogy between a physical illness to BPD is inaccurate because we are talking about a relationship, and BPD is an attachment disorder that causes chaos in all close interpersonal relationships. Would you choose a person with only one arm and one leg to be on your tug-of-war team? Yes, if they worked hard at it, they might possibly become a great tug-of-war teammate, but they start out with a huge disadvantage to overcome.

As for a therapist, my vote is yes! As long as they know you are simply trying to figure things out without a specific goal of either permanently detaching or trying to get back together with your BPDex.

If you do decide to make a go of it, the Staying board should offer a lot of tools, advice, and support.

lilybear, only you can decide what you want and are prepared to do. I hope you figure it out. 

I went to that trap more than once or twice. Mind you, my ex was dry alcoholic and had adhd, the fact that he  has personality disorder is buried under that and he will never be diagnosed, so I had good reasons to delude myself and being altruistic, do-dependent fool and by the way, narstistic too, because you may not realize now but thinking like this is narstistic. We are actually not thinking about what is BEST for the other. Best is to leave them to be and find or not find their way out of the sleepwalking. We can't wake them. I know I was so full of how sacrificing, loving and understanding person I was it is sickening.

Nothing changes better, no matter how much you bend, understand and love. It get's worse. You will be so tired you don't know how you will go through yet another day in PD-hell. You will be full of resentment because you will be tired of your meets never met and the other part of so-called relationship having endless needs. You will be full of his/her entitlement and emotional immaturity. You can't love for two people, nobody can. You will be pushed and pulled more than you ever thought would be possible, and you obsess about it more than you ever thought would be possible.

Don't go back. Nothing has changed. It is all wishful thinking.

I could have written this post. I sure think about those things and ask myself those things a lot. What I have found helpful is being painfully honest with my select few friends (who are women coincidently) who I have really been able to share what has gone on, that way they can smack some loving sense into me. They have known me for years and her through me and they are quick to make sure that I would only get treated as bad if not worse. They remind me of the bad times, in fact just last week on Thursday I texted one friend who lived with us at one point, and told her I was missing my ex. She then said to me "do not forget this is the same woman who just 2 days ago acted as if she was going to keep your kid away from you on your night" and I was able to be snapped right back into reality. But I have to be willing to be that painfully honest, because part of me likes to sit in the fantasy.That is what helps me a lot because deep deep down I know it can not work unless she got serious help, but I can easily loose sight of that feeling lonely or sad.

No two experiences are the same.  We hear a lot of negative stories.  The positive ones won't be on this board so much.  I am just as confused as you about all of this.  It seems to me that if you consider taking him back, you have to set really strong boundaries up front.

I dated my exBPDgf originally for 18 months... and she abruptly dumped me. Then some 27 yrs later... contacted me on FB and we tried it again and again... .7-8 recycles... .each worse than before. Some of the time apart I missed her and thought "how bad could it be"... .and underestimated it by 10X at least.

Keep in mind... they start by idealizing you ... thinking you are wonderful... then when it comes apart you are horrible to them. They don't forget ... anything from what I can tell. So the next time... they miss you but have conflicted feelings from the start... and are watching for your "old bad behavior"... which over time is redefined to be more and  more absurdly impossible to avoid.

The last go round... I didn't bother actually going to see her... I just talked/chatted and she went from thrilled to get back together to flying off handle... in about 2 days time... .she was upset that I wasn't sympathetic to her plight... .she had laser surgery for an STD she caught from the guy she ran to 3 days after we were supposed to move in together. The insanity of that sank in with me.

Would like to say your mileage may vary... .but I don't believe that is true... if she is BPD... .it doesn't get better automatically, or over time... if anything it gets worse each go round... .and my pwBPD got much worse over the long period of time... .many years ago she was at heart a sweet girl with issues... .as a woman she felt empowered... and I had the issues ... .and it was issues like "not being understanding to her"... .she had no problem with getting an STD ... from a guy she picked up to get back at me for nothing I did... the projecting of blame in particular became worse and worse.

It hurts like hell to lose a pwBPD that you are convinced you are in love with... believe me I know. And getting over the hump of all that hurt was the first big hurdle I had. After that I wanted to understand everything about BPD and figure out how I could do something different and get her back. But fact is she was toxic and horrible for me... cost me my self respect... a business, a career and best paying job I ever had... kicked off a divorce... moved to be away from her... etc... .went through wringer. And it accomplished nothing. Worst hurt I had was years ago when she dumped me she showed up hanging on a neighbor guy... I was homicidal/suicidal... and just barely avoided mega-stupidity... .moved 1500 miles away. So to me... I was devastated, to her, years later... ."Oh he was nothing... just one of my friends... " ... she wanted to make me jealous... .I nearly killed the guy... or myself... and for what? She was engaged 7 times... married twice, had an abortion from a prior guy, and two STD's... .that I know of... close to times I dated her... and to hear her version ... .well... .she "thinks she would make a good nun".

It took that kind of nuttiness for me to finally ask questions like "Why do I want her?", "Why after over 25 yrs was 100% of feelings still there?", "Why was sex great but off somehow?", "How can she be great/horrible and so inconsistent day to day?". The questions led to answers and I didn't like them;

After all that time... no other gal still had my heart... I was idealized/mirrored/love bombed... .and it seemed like unconditional love. She moralized constantly... which is bizarre, given her utter lack of integrity... and I listened and seemed drawn to it... after much research in to attachment theory... concluded that I put her on a pedestal and thought of it as a primary r/s... .like with a parent. When she dumped me it was like losing a parent... horrendous sense of loss... .yet I lost a beast of a GF. Normal r/s is over and fades... after 25 yrs your feelings for parent are still there... and feelings for her were undiminished... so that is my theory... we put them on pedestal and ignore reality because we want them to be the unconditionally loving parent figure. (And that isn't a good r/s dynamic.)

My stress level was insanely high near end of r/s... .and I went to a T and he directed me to mindfulness ... which helped as it stopped the ruminating... it also made it clear that the issues and emotions were egoic in nature... that my pwBPD... was not genuine, or honest, and that I had to have some really strong need to be attaching to this disordered person so strongly. So dug in to my issues... and found I indeed had issues,... like most people... with attachment... .getting close with people. I put up a wall, kept people at arms distance to keep from getting hurt and my pwBPD ignored boundaries and got close, then pulled rug out from under me a lot of times.

Good luck... I don't think there are "positive ones that are not on the board"... .unless the BPD was a misdiagnoses.  BPD isn't a disease like mumps or chikenpox, its how the person organizes their personality... starting in the first couple years of their life... .that is why it doesn't suddenly just get better or go away. It takes a lot to change the deep seated dysfunctional ways they deal with people. Add in blaming everyone else, flipping people black/white... .lack of stable self, etc... .and your not looking at things getting better with them. You have a great chance of making things better for you and being in healthier r/s yourself... that is the direction to pursue, in my opinion.

Good luck.

In bold.

That.

That is what will happen.

Over and over.

Whether they have someone else or not.

If they know that they were able to successfully get you to let them back in before... .

That is their in.

Great post Charred.

Does it ever work if you retry try trying again and again, over and over, again?

Well, in some cases, (like practicing shooting free throws) your free throw percentage might improve.

In the BPD recycle, cycle, recycle, cycle... .when you are feeling at your worst and wondering how did things get so twisted and flipped flopped as your sense of self, self-esteem, and self-confidence erodes... .you'll recognize that ol familiar feeling... .and then perhaps out of resiliency you may try to bounce back and make things better (the hook that keeps hooking), until the whole dang cycle starts all over again... .  IT IS THAT - which a therapist can help you sort out and figure out if THAT is what you really want... .because THAT is what you will wind up getting over and over again.  What's up with that?  THAT'S on you.

In the mean time, I very much agree with Fromheeltoheal.  Words of wisdom.

Also there is something to be said about the chaos-flipflop-chaos-flipflop cycle that brings about feelings of comfort, calm to the BPD which comes at your expense time and time again.

When is enough, enough?  A question for your own boundaries.

Great posts and words of caution.

I have been doing much bet, and my BPD ex has moved thousnads of miles a way to live with her new lover.  She has been there a week and has been texting about what a mistake she made, and that I am still the love of her life.

I realize that she is hedging her bets, and on some level realizes that moving in with someone you dated only four times, who you slept with three days after a breakup is imprudent and tenuous.  But thanks to this site, and a good T, I am not encouraging her to come back etc.

Yes, I still love her.  But I accept that she is unstable and not good for me.  Of course I wonder what getting her like would be like, but I have a very healthy fear that she might return one day.  That tels me all I need to know.

I have my life back, and need to stay strong.  As for the poster here:  Be careful and see a t.  While it is true that most who post here see this BPD thing in a black and white sense themselves( it is ironic that it is a form of splitting),  the illness is quite specific to the person.  If they agree they have an issues and see a T with you, who knows.  But as Elmer Fudd liked to say:  "Be vewry vewry caawfull."

HB

Great posts and words of caution.

I have been doing much bet, and my BPD ex has moved thousnads of miles a way to live with her new lover.  She has been there a week and has been texting about what a mistake she made, and that I am still the love of her life.

I realize that she is hedging her bets, and on some level realizes that moving in with someone you dated only four times, who you slept with three days after a breakup is imprudent and tenuous.  But thanks to this site, and a good T, I am not encouraging her to come back etc.

Yes, I still love her.  But I accept that she is unstable and not good for me.  Of course I wonder what getting her like would be like, but I have a very healthy fear that she might return one day.  That tels me all I need to know.

I have my life back, and need to stay strong.  As for the poster here:  Be careful and see a t.  While it is true that most who post here see this BPD thing in a black and white sense themselves( it is ironic that it is a form of splitting),  the illness is quite specific to the person.  If they agree they have an issues and see a T with you, who knows.  But as Elmer Fudd liked to say:  "Be vewry vewry caawfull."

HB

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom, going back for one more round after 30 + previous rounds certainly seems like it is like walking into a cauldron of fire! But as always, I remain hopeful.

I am going to make an appointment to see a therapist this week and try to work through some of my stuff. I have some pretty major issues with abandonment and the related insecurity that goes with that myself, so i do wonder if maybe, my personality is not a good personality to match with someone with BPD. Maybe I even have high functioning BPD myself, as I certainly am not good at handling anger and have had my fair share of raging during our time... .But I just can't help but wonder if he is making progress with change, and I am committed to changing the way I react and respond, then maybe we could make it work.

Anyway, I will take things slowly and carefully, just a friendship at first, ensuring I am strong enough to enforce my boundaries which I hope will give me enough time to evaluate whether the changes I have seen in my ex as a result of his work with his therapist are something that is here for good. I'll keep you updated :)

Does it ever work if you try again? What would be different? The same two people would be involved!

If the same two people have learnt better communication skills and how to relate to each other, as well as a better understanding of what drives their behaviors, then it would lead to a reduced change of dysregulation would it not?

I agree with you lilybear14 - its a long road - we each have our own healing to do independent of one another.  Once I healed from my childhood trauma that got me into my relationship to begin with - I would never dream of dating a Borderline and I would not dream of dating my ex regardless if he healed or not - we were grossly incompatible despite our own issues.

It certainly is an interesting conundrum... .I feel like it was our issues that forced us into incompatibility, so if that was resolved/resolving, then perhaps things could be different... .I guess time will tell.

If only there were medication to treat BPD.  It would change so many of our lives.  (Of course, in some cases we wouldn't meet the person because they'd still be in an old relationship.)

I think there's a better chance of things working a 2nd time if you don't have kids.  It's harder to expose kids to such issues.

lilybear14, you sound intelligent, that you would like to ends first before exploring if your relationship could be more than that again in the future. That sounds like a good idea. In my opinion if you decide to travel this route, you have to be nonattached, both to the man and to the outcome. If you secretly have high expectations, then the suffering will be greater if these expectations are not fulfilled.

Can you accept that he might never change? Would you still want to be friends if he doesn't change at all? And can you walk away at peace with yourself if at some point in the future you decide that you can no longer be friends? It is just as important to be realistic as to be hopeful, so as not to live in fear nor feel the shame of failure if it doesn't work out. Best wishes to you. 

I think there may be a few success stories over on the staying board, and those did not come without war wounds.  Also, the two individuals involved (even the BPD) have had to put in amazing amounts of effort.

I think this is were it becomes important to really be clear on what you want and expect out of a relationship.  I think for most of us, in this age where we get to choose our partners, a BPD relationship will leave us pretty well bankrupt at worse, just barely tolerable at best.

So it depends on your definition of happiness and your definition of a relationship that works.  There are some relationships that work forever on drama and yelling and furrowed brow.  For those individuals, that may mean 'success'.

I would say, that trying again (and again and again) with someone that has a proven track record of even having the capacity to hurt someone they claim to love so deeply... .it's like betting on a penny stock. Odds aren't good. I'm one of the negatory statistics :)

It gets worse in my experience.

Hi dear Lilybear!

It feels like a good idea for you to seek out therapy! However do not fear you have BPD... .You don't, however I think many of us here can testify to doubting ourselves at times in these intense and sometimes over the top crazy situations we can find ourselves in when being in a r/s with pw BPD... .Some call it flies we attract from being in the environment of their disorder... .However that is a joke!

Fear of abandonment is often a trait we as partners share with our pw BPD and can explain a lot of the passion and intense idealization that takes place in the beginning of our encounters... .Their fear is however often more intense and also travels together with their companions, fear of engulfment, fear of intimacy and fear of being lovable at all... .

Most of us non's don't have the same problem with all of those things too... .We do however often harbor a co dependency trait and a rescuer or helper trait that comes with having huge amounts of empathy, often stemming from not really believing we are good enough as we are, so we just have to be more, give more and so on... .And those traits can make us attractive to pw BPD, since they are looking for something that will take all their fears away... .But that is not something we as partners can ever do for our loved ones... .We need to know we cannot change other people. Only they can do that. And only we can change us... .

Working with a therapist is a really good step for you to take... .But it is important that you do that for you. Not as some training to get you strong enough to be able to cope with his problems! Therapy for you is about you not him... .

Just a reflexion of mine you don't have to take into account at all is, when I read you do fear abandonment and you do harbor a hope for you once getting together again... .I know how hellbent we all can get when we have a lot of feelings of love and hope going on... .And the hope beyond all hopes is shining stronger than ever... .And then our sensibility and out mind have a very hard time of being heard at all... .But do you really want to be in a r/s that will constantly trigger your fear of abandonment? Because it will... .Since he has that fear too at the core of his being... .So he will always ask himself if he wants to be in a r/s that triggers his fear abandonment. And that will cause him to break up over and over, and you since your fear looks different will try to cling on harder and harder... .I know these are tough questions... .But it is now you have the golden opportunity to actually ask yourself for the true answers to them! The more truthful and honest you can be with yourself, the better you will look after you... .And paradoxically the greater the chances are of having any success in building a relationship with this guy!

I think you know by now I like us all here wish you the very best!  

Scout99

Sorry but I agree with all that Ironmanfalls says.

Having been in and out of the relationship, Having no contact, limited contact, getting back together and separated more times that I care to remember I can only guarantee one thing... .

It hurts. It hurts more and more and more.

The boundaries are pushed harder and harder.

I guess that we should never say never but for my own preservation I have to believe that I will never get back with her. As much as I would like to try again for that family unit, the dream of us all living together again. My happy wife and our small daughter. Reality check kicks in and I realise that I need to grow myself again alone.

It hurts to be alone, but, when I think back and really remember the past being alone hurts less than having the torment, the anger, the destruction, the accusations, the mind games, the demands, the rejection, the selfishness, the worry, the police involvement, the ambulances, the upset neighbours, the rumours.

If you do try again, well, good luck.

You will need it.

We are all here waiting. 

DO please keep us posted.  This is a question many of us ask.

Clearmind,

I have been in therapy for a couple of months and I am totally aware of my "issues" during childhood which involved my dad and me always believing he did not love me.  I know now that he loves me very much but I don't think I have figured out how to totally "heal" myself to a point of being considered a healthy person.  I asked my therapist how to get there and he basically say by talking about it like we are doing.  I know my issue, I know my dad loves me so what next?  How did you learn to love yourself and heal from your trauma?  It is like the $1,000,000 question for me.

i think clearmind said it well in the posts above... .

from my experience, i would say no it will never work no matter how much time you spend away from each other. i may have improved myself, but that doesnt change who she is and nothing i do can prevent the inevitable from happening... .

unless my ex was in therapy for years and acknowledged she had BPD and tried to live her life in adjustment to that, i wouldnt try again... .

and to my own selfish accord, i wouldnt want to be in a relationship that requires so much work and where i have to give so much constant attention and walk on eggshells... .

Waifed, there is a good personal inventory thread started by Phoenix.Rising many of us contributed to which describes the path we have taken to heal from our childhood “issues” – it is really worth taking a look and it is different for everyone. However, I do believe that there are some real similarities – in how an invalidating childhood can impact us as adults.

Dating a waif, who carry the facade of helplessness need a strong partner who is "capable" of fixing, care taking and taking care of matters. Unfortunately our efforts to save are met with resentment on behalf of the Borderline because the power shifts way too much. Its not an equal relationship. I was taught to save and placate as a child so its no wonder I dated a waif.

Healing Childhood Trauma (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=209786.msg12315255#msg12315255)

For me personally, having grown up with an alcoholic and likely BPD parent, my value and belief systems (about myself and others) were completed screwed up. As an adult I hid much of my anxiety (shame) by switching off my emotions and numbing them with a variety of things – but mainly avoidance, shutting down, being the “good girl” – rather than changing the thinking, behaviors and emotions that created the anxiety.

I masked it by also dating a Borderline! My “issues” faded into insignificance compared to my ex’s! It provided me with value and worthiness being able to fix him. When we split my worth went with it.

If we connect worthiness with good boundaries – I would never have dated my ex. I was not taught boundaries as a child because my parents had none for me to model them from.

We need to believe we are enough just as we are and relinquish childhood conditioning that may have told us otherwise.  Some of us were not raised with the skills and emotional practice (in a safe environment) to lean into discomfort – instead we run from it.

Being vulnerable is part of living – work on not equating vulnerability with shame. Love, love, love Brene Browns book “Daring Greatly” – buy the e-book so you can highlight passages – it really is an eye opener how an invalidating childhood can cause shame based behaviour and lack of worthiness. Makes sense though huh?

Waifed, try not to see your healing as a huge feat but rather a journey that takes practice, some work and mainly awareness of your emotional state through the day – check in with your emotions and your needs constantly at first until taking care of your needs begins to come naturally.

Hello LilyBear - After our first breakup (which was awful) I was in so much pain and I felt I just had to try again.  I hadn't discovered this board yet but my few friends who knew what had gone on thought I was nuts.  I told them this was something I just had to do and asked them not to judge me.  It didn't work out for us the second time around.  And as difficult as it is not to be with him I wouldn't go back for round three.  However it's your decision to make.  I do want to share with you something my T (who I started seeing after this second break up) said that really resonated with me.  He said you need to understand that you're the problem.  You're the one triggering all these feelings and subsequent reactions.  This disorder manifests in relationships. 

I wish you all the best whatever you decide to do.  And whatever your decision we're here for you.

With BPD, once you go black, there's no going back.

Sure, there may be good times in between, but a pwBPD will never forget the things that made them split you black.

In bold.

The pwBPD does forget... .

In a sense.

It is why they return to you.

You are painted white.

They have forgotten... .

Why they hated you.

(Feelings = Facts... .Irrespective of the concurrently occurring reality... .)

Now they can only remember... .

You in the white sense... .

In the all good view... .

Until... .

The inevitable... .

Happens again... .

Which is... .

The day of trigger... .

And the start of Devaluation... .

Where they begin to view you as bad... .

Until you are discarded... .

And viewed as... .

All bad.

Until... .

Time passes again... .

And their dysregulation... .

Returns to a baseline normal... .

And they start to... .

Remember you as... .

All good.

How many cycles of that do you wish... .

To undergo... .?

I went through 2 rounds... .

Of that.

A third round... .

Would kill me.

I want to live.

No further rounds.

She hurt me enough.

I allowed myself to be hurt enough.

In this thread, I did not see a definition for a "working relationship" involving a person diagnosed  with a cluster B  personality disorder such as BPD.  Inability to regulate emotions, lack of impulse control, absence of object constancy and a history of unstable relatioships, should equate to what form of relationship exactly? The one we desire, or the one that is?  Where does the assumption come from that these extraordinarily maladapted people with their intense relational quirks, will like performing seals, somehow get it, and be all that we want them to be?  They are uniquely different, which becomes self-evident to even the most obtuse over time. Let them be. Love them, or leave them, or love them in limited doses, but stop yearning for an ideal that they are incapable of living up to. They are alien, and forever will be. All things change.

The challenge being that a borderline, compelled to attach, is expert at presenting themselves as the one we desire, on the way to becoming the one who is.  In the harshest sense they present a lie tailored to their current attachment subject, who usually knows nothing about cluster B disorders, and the fallout can be profound.  If a borderline presented with "BPD" tatooed on their forehead and an instruction manual, we may choose to go to crazyland voluntarily and fully aware, a very different scenario.

FHTH, I empathize with that scenario. To be blind-sided. Yet, even under those circumstances, it is too black and white to state that one never glimpsed the being beneath the mask. In a month, a half-of-one-year, maybe so. Anything longer if not a LDR, I think not. We are for the most part empathetic and perceptive souls. We know what we saw, we desired it and believed we could rescue the being beneath the mask. They are alien, and the folly to tame is on us. They captivated us and we desired to capture their essence in a box, wrap it in eternity, sealed with a kiss, and call it our own. Folly. They are the wind, ever changing direction, and all too often the swirling storm. All things change.

Yes, to rescue, and to be rescued in return, but from what?  From loneliness, from lack of love, from solo preferring partnership, and finally finding an enthusiastic playmate who hung on our every word, a dream come true.  Until the dream turns to a nightmare.  Sure, an existential stance is plausible, if we can detach while immersed, develop a fascination for that which is other, tolerate infidelity as part of the fun, take sustenance from the vibrancy yet guard against the crazy.  Mundane, no.  Boring, no.  Supportive, no.  Reliable, no.  Yes, these things are possible, but what the fck for?

In bold.

I let mine be... .

After she left me... .

In round 1.

I was trying to heal.

Move on with my life.

As I was healing... .

And... .

Letting her be... .

That is when she came back... .

Like a force of nature... .

A hurricane... .

Back into my garden... .

Only to... .

Uproot... .

Everything... .

I tried... .

So hard... .

To replant... .

And nourish... .

And sustain... .

For her... .

To discard me... .

Yet again... .

With the parting words... .

Let me be.

I get what you are trying to say.

I do.

IF and that is a big if, he accepts responsibility for his actions, and goes into therapy. It will get worse before it gets better.And IF you work on yourself and boundaries and validation, it will get worse before it gets better. And eventually, you will find that you have mostly been alone in the relationship.

It's a very difficult decision you make, no matter which way you choose.

Ironman, I truly feel the depth of your hurt. I cannot alleviate it, while at the same time I do respect your calculated defense perimeter. I learned some time ago, that even the worst relational transgressions are never a reflection upon the party who maintains their integrity.  The transgressor always transgresses against their own being. To violate well accepted values is an act of submission. To say, I am lesser, not more. That my inability to control desire will subsume my integrity given the chance. What we deplore, is that their needs are so vastly different from ours. That is the illness, and I believe it makes them less culpable than the sane. People come and people go, and sometimes, they go and go and return and return--the things that will not be--as imagined--but sometimes as is--in one life--this chance, and no other.

FHTH, "what the fck for"? Why do I eat ice-cream if it makes me fat and causes cavities?  But in moderation and with proper brushing it tastes so good and is worth it. I know a trite answer but it's late and I don't feel like elaborating on my beliefs about possessory interests in these relationships.

No offense Conundrum, but I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. While not all pwBPD are the same, there are many who wish the same as what you characterize the non BPD partner wanting, to keep us boxed up eternally as a source of soothing, to never be alone but perhaps never be truly together either. There is a flaw in both parties' thinking.

And I believe from the available writings, as well as my own experience with my pwBPD, that many pwBPD do not desire to always feel like a victim of the winds of life but they feel no ability to alter or author the narrative of their own life. They may not want to be weird and alien but cannot grasp how to be any different.

If two people want to be like ships occasionally passing in the night, that is their business and fine if they both accept the reality. However, I don't believe the majority of partners,  both BPD and nonBPD, desire this scenario. Therefore even this most tenuous "relationship" is subject to possible "failure". On the other hand, the less you have invested, the less you care about losing that investment... .

No!

I agree learning_curve! Borderlines are hard wired and it stands to reason that if childhood trauma between the ages of 3-13 is a major cause of BPD in adult life then they cannot operate on any other level.

Now that we are aware our partners are likely to be BPD - and that the relationship dynamic was not helpful - why did we stay? That is the golden question! We got something from this too and we all brought our own issues and relationship skills, or lack there of to the union.