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i fist ask this a few weeks ago and was wondering if some that posted on the topic have had change in thier feeling ? for me ive have some change in my feeling and the way i see myself and the r/s

i can see now that i did love her but love dies a little everyday and to much time alone can keep it alive for no reason.

I think I will always have some feelings for my wife.   Together for 12 years and 4 kids.   It is hard because it was never returned in a normal way.   When you pour so much love in it would be nice to get some back.

So love yes, wanting a relationship of hell for the rest of my life not so much.

The hardest part of it is not feeling compassion for them still and being used when they need "something".   They know it and abuse us to no end.

Love... .no.The feelings died after realizing he is too sick to love in the real sense of the term.

Might help him if he ever needs anything needs anything without letting my emotions get ruffled.That's just about it.Nothing more.

are you still in love with your ex?

Of course.

Does that make any difference?

No.

She still has a disorder that only allows her to love you only for moments in time.

And those other moments... .that disorder allows her to hate you... .

Detest you... .

Want nothing to do with you... .

Loaths you.

And only you.

My exUBPDgf once put a status on her fb that i happened to come across after i let her in my life that second time that dated to the NC time in the interim... .

It said... .

"Sometimes you need to love people from a distance."... .

I never forgot the sickening feeling i got in my stomach when i read that.

What a cruel paradox.

Her affair and her being in a commited relationship with her affair prtner put a nail in the love coffin for me.

I'm two years out and how I think I felt about my ex changes from day to day. Sometimes I feel that I was in love with him, some days it was simply a toxic bond, and some days it simply felt like deep enmeshment.  Some days I think I fell in love with myself due to my ex's mirroring and idealization.

I personally think love can wear many faces. There's no one canned definition. Love can be deep or shallow. Love can be broad and love can be narrow because it means different things to different people. I can't say that my ex didn't love me because of his BPD. What I will say is that my ex loved me as much as he BPD would allow. BPD love=need. And my ex certainly admitted to needing me on more than one occasion.

Most of us on here have triggered our ex's (and they have triggered us) and it wouldn't have happened if we didn't get close so there's are certainly aspects of love involved to evolve to the deep pain that many of us on here currently feel.

My ex's face of love was unhealthy and toxic but I certainly won't say it wasn't love because it sure felt like it. And I'm going to trust what I feel. No one on here can tell me what my ex felt for me because they weren't in the room when my ex and I were together. What I shared with my ex was real; but it wasn't sustaining.

What matters most is making peace with the fact that staying in that relationship would have destroyed me; love or not.

At the time of the relationship it feel like deep "he's the one" love. Now my ex is more symbolic of my original loves: my parents.

Spell

I responded to this first post that I did love him.  Was still in love with him.  Despite the bad there was a lot of good in our relationship.  And I still do.  Sadly.  But I know I can't be with him.  And I'm pretty sure I'll never have a relationship with that kind of emotional connection and intensity again.  I know that in and of itself is part of his disorder and our little dysfunctional dance.  But I miss it.  I miss him.  Honestly?  I think there will always be a part of me who yearns for him.  For the good stuff we had. 

This is how I feel, and it hurts like hell... .

We have to stop thinking this way. I've thought this very thing too and it brings on a hopeless, sad feeling and doesn't do anybody any favors, except our BPD exes because we are giving them power to dictate how we feel in future relationships. We walk around all sullen like Sinead O'Connor: Nothing Compares 2 U.

I told my uBPDbf once when we were dating that if he has the capacity to love me, then he has the capacity to love someone else. The context was he was complaining and guilt-tripping me about what I couldn't give him and I proposed to cut him loose to find someone who could give him what he needed and he would be fine without me. 

After the b/u three months ago, for too long I thought about him moving on and loving someone else the way he loved me. Then I thought, wait, I need to live by my own words. If I had the capacity to love him deeply and feel that spark, I have the capacity to find that with someone else.

Why do we believe we are doomed to have less than fulfilling and exciting relationships in the future? Maybe the pain and emotional challenges of of our BPD persons kept us excited on an unhealthy level. And why do we have that narrative that says they will be happy and we'll just keep suffering? To answer my own question, it's because they conditioned us during the r/s to suffer and sacrifice. So we are still carrying around the suffering and sacrifice.

Our problem today is we are still not far enough away from the BPD b/u to feel alive again or see clearly. But I have confidence we are getting there. I'm trying as hard as I can.

One day I was writing back and forth with my ex via instant messenger, and she said, I NEED! in big letters like that.  It sounded odd (and juvenile) to me at the time, but after hearing people discuss how BPD love= need, it made more sense.  Her love for me was real, I believe, but in a childlike way.  It was always very intense when it was activated, but it was also fleeting.  They have trouble regulating their emotions, and I don't believe they are capable of sustaining that love feeling in a consistent manner like we are.  It's either really hot or really cold, not much in between.  That is also why when they get upset, it's best to disengage or validate because I'm sure they feel completely out of control, as they can't regulate what they are feeling.  It is probably an 15 on a scale of 1 - 10.

Also, the relationship dynamic seemed to work backwards.  By that I mean the love intensity was strong in the very beginning, almost immediately, like we were destined or soul mates.  This type of feeling should take some time, I believe, in a normal relationship, whatever that is.  lol

And as we know, the idealization phase quickly subsides.  Once the devaluation begins, I'm not sure if it could ever be the same again.  They don't seem to have a good capacity to resolve negative feelings and hurts.  So their resentment is just slowly building.  I'm not sure what goes on in their heads, but I don't think a mature love is possible with someone like my ex unless she decides to really hunker down and work on herself.  I believe I loved her, but I also feel I was becoming locked in a trauma cycle.  It is still confusing to me.  I also think that part of it for me was based on need as well.

Peas... .I like the way you put that:  "Giving them to power to dictate how we'll feel in future relationships."  I remember when I first split up with my xHB.  I swore to God I was never getting married again.  But then I realized that was stupid.  I was letting my relationship with him influence any future relationship I might have.  Should stop doing that in this one too.  Good advice.  Hard work.

Oh Phoenix, I know those "NEED" conversations too well. They are excruciating. My ex did the same, but on the phone. Probably every other week it was "I NEED you here!" (it was a long-distance r/s).

As for hot and cold, yep. On the alternate weeks of I NEED YOU, I would hear a detached: "I'm used to you not being around."

Huh?

And yes, BPD people do work backwards. After six weeks of dating and one recycle behind us, during an intense anxiety attack my ex pleaded on the phone to see me RIGHT NOW and then asked me to marry him and that he NEEDED ME. This was over the course of about four voicemails in a span of 30 minutes. I texted that he needed to chill, sleep on it, and I would see him in the morning. I knew this was not normal and I knew I couldn't indulge this behavior. I wanted so badly to get in my car and drive to his house that minute (I was in town), but I refused to let him control me that night. It also saddened me that he asked me to marry him in that context. I knew it was out of desperation and not from a healthy mindset.   

The next day I saw him and reminded him that he asked me to marry him during this heavy anxiety attack. He said he meant it. I also explained that I didn't run to him the night before because I had to set boundaries.

Six months and three more recycles later he broke up with me for good.

It's how I feel about my uBPDexgf... .It's been almost 2 months since she cut me out if her life and refused to acknowledge my existence. It'll be 2 weeks Tuesday since I stopped trying to contact her... .It's insane how it ended and got to be like this. Never thought it could happen like this.

Those are some practical points to ponder on peas.

Thank you for sharing them,appreciate it.

My T. was telling me lately that I should use more "I" word, instead "he"; talk about my feelings more rather about his feelings, motives, reasons and etc.  I think it is a very good advice because I get so much preoccupied with the quest of what and why happened, with thoughts  "did he really love me", "does he feel sorry for the hurt" that I lose again the connection with the present, with the reality and dwell either on the past or think about the possible future scenarios with his involvement.  It takes a bit of willpower to focus on myself and face the reality, but I find it very important and rewarding.

I was reading the posts and saw that not only I struggle with that - many answered not about their own feelings, but their exes. 

I love him, but this is other type of love now, I understand him better now, I don't feel so much hurt, betrayal or a feeling of being a toy in someone's game, I feel less shame and guilt.  It is not a masochistic type of love, when I was ready to give whatever he wanted, when forgiving anything was a right thing to me.  I did my share. It is not giving love, because there is nothing I can give him. I feel I am hurt but also I know that I let the situation to escalate. I also feel that I started loving myself more and I hope I will come back to my real  self.  I want to believe that the love I felt for him will continue transforming into non-attachment love, just wishing him the best and peace. The same to me. 

1+.'I need you today evening.Drop whatever you are doing and meet me,even if it is for 30 mins' he would say.Being declined resulted in child-like sulking and even a pout at times .


Over-idealization+my co-dependence resulted in ^^^.Felt surreal.That in itself should have been a  red-flag.


True that.

I'm sure I mixed up some of my own codependence with love.  :light: 

This means my conceptions of love have been warped as well, as part of codependence is the need to be needed...

I love who I thought she was.

I love who I was when I was with her.

I love the times we shared, feeling so safe and loved.

I will always love her, the "her" she projected to me... .but I do not love this weird, selfish individual she turned out to be.

I'm getting to the place now (10 months on!) where I can smile at some of those happy memories we shared.

I still feel love for what we had, because I'm not a heartless b*tch who can just switch off her feelings like my ex seemed to be able to.

So yeah... .there will always be a little piece of me who is still in love with what we had - but I now realise that "us" as we were existed in a time and space vacuum.  Ouch, it still hurts.

It's confusing and heartbreaking, but I'm getting there.

 I love my 2 exes from long term relationships before my current soon to be ex uBPDw. How I feel about my wife right now, no idea if ill even see her ever again, but I love her 50 times more than all my prior exes combined, I love everything about her, everything. I know for a fact ill never feel anything remotely close to this ever again, about to turn 40 here and never had feelings like this before, in 22 years as an adult, no reason to assume ill find it in the next 22.

Its the friggin behavior that I don't love. Amazes me that I'm practically an expert on BPD now but I still can't separate the person from the disorder, I still take the behavior personally. Funny, before this woman, I didn't really know what it was to miss someone the minute you leave them, or look forward the entire work day to getting home so I could be with her again. In the past, what was normal love for me definitely didn't include counting the minutes till I could see that person again. This was something totally new for me and I'm gonna miss it.

I used to get mad at guys who acted like they were in a hurry to get done work to see their wives or girlfriends, now I actually discovered that feeling myself and BPD has to wreck it, I really think its gotta be karma coming back to me.

Yes. Love doesn't seem to change as much as Life does.

I will always be in love with the man who played the piano so beautifully for me while I took a hot bath, the one who brought me warm biscuits in bed, and the one who made me laugh with his quick wit~~like in a snowstorm when he wanted to pick me up, and I texted, "Please don't drive up here; the snow is horrendous." And he texted back, "My sled does horrendous." I have come to accept that the other half of him ~~ the cruel, biting, lying, cheating, addict of many things, was the real person. I will always be in love with the facade, but it was never reality. That's what took me forever to get over.

I love her, and probably always will. Having poured so much of myself into the marriage, it's not possible to shut off. Wish it were so easy. It's not. The good was fantastic and the bad horrible. The betrayals, lying , abuses and cheating numerous and I cannot take the pain of that. I choose not to be the whipping post of her disorder. My emotions will take a while to catch up to my head. Logically I know what she is , emotionally? It will take time.

Yes, I do. I love him very much, till this date.

I have known him for 32 months, been in r/s for 18 months including 6 months of recycling and broken up for 3 months now. 

I love the person I had known when I fell in love with him. I love him for all the happy times we shared, because that's still a part of him. Over few months, I have seen the facts more clearly and have accepted the fact that I cannot be with him. But he will always be a part of me.

Love him? Yes.

Like him? No, not at all. He's not a very nice person, at his core.

Want him back? Only the idealised version of my marriage, and I know that's impossible.

I want to pick up on that idea that you'll never love someone again with the same intensity, or be loved with the same intensity.

This is NOT necessarily true, but you should approach anything resembling your BPD relationship with EXTREME caution.  I actually went from one BPD breakup into dating the next girl with uBPD after less than 3 months.  Remember those words from the very first article on this site?  'In some ways this relationship saved you.'?  Bingo.  That's exactly why I put up with it all again, and frankly, worse behaviour too.

HOWEVER, I know that *I* am capable of loving with a deep intensity that is true, and not fleeting.  Yes, part of that is taking care of the other person, and being taken care of in turn, but not exclusively.  It's also about enjoying each other's company, reveling in shared jokes and thoughts, and valuing their existence in your life above all else (but not to the expense of all else). 

So, if *I* am capable of this, and all of *YOU* are capable of this, then of course we are capable of finding it with people who are not severely mentally ill.  We are, if anything, better equipped to handle relationships in the future, knowing what we now know about setting boundaries and not engaging in co-dependent behaviour. 

I reckon I'm going to be ok, because I think positively about these things.  I hope you guys will be ok too, but think you need to get off the negative lines of thought before you will allow yourselves to be ok.  Hope that makes sense.

Why do we believe we are doomed to have less than fulfilling and exciting relationships in the future? Maybe the pain and emotional challenges of of our BPD persons kept us excited on an unhealthy level. And why do we have that narrative that says they will be happy and we'll just keep suffering? To answer my own question, it's because they conditioned us during the r/s to suffer and sacrifice. So we are still carrying around the suffering and sacrifice. [/quote]
So true. Already Im conditioning my mind that there will not be another like. Defn food for thought... .

I'm not still in love with my ex. I know now I was in love with who I thought she was and what I thought we had together. Despite a fair amount of red flags, I charged ahead in the r/s and I placed more value on her romantic gestures and words than I did my gut reaction to the red flags. Now that I know, I wouldn't put myself through a r/s like that again. I'm more worried about high-functioning, but even then I believe I've learned the value of protecting myself and having strong boundaries.

Blurry, don't make this a self-fulfilling prophecy:

Love is a strange word.

I don't think I ever really loved her.  I honestly believe when I said I did I was lying through my teeth.

I loved who I wanted her to be, who she promised she wanted to be, who she "showed me" she was working to be.

But I didn't ever love her.  Shoot, I don't even know if i liked her.

She was a multiple addict, with no self respect, and no integrity.

None.

It's a nasty fact that I have to admit to myself, that I lied to myself and to her for that long.

Ours was a relationship built on broken promises. 

Like a house of cards, it tumbled when the weight of those finally bore down.

I feel bad for her.  Very bad.  She had a terrible childhood.  I took on an unhealthy father figure/therapist role that she liked alot.  She "NEEDED".

I have no doubt she needed it, until i started pulling back and deciding i wanted something back from the relationship.  Then I became "demanding, controlling, etc. etc. etc."

I'm the least controlling person I know.  I can't count the number of conversations we had where I said, "I want you to do whatever you want to do.  I accept it."

Is it controlling to want to know where your gf is after she cheats on you?  Is it paranoid to not believe her when she lies constantly? Is it controlling and demanding to ask questions and continue to ask them, until you get "truth" which is probably still only 1/2 true?

I don't know.  I don't care.  I was never dating the person I thought I was dating.  I was dating an image she showed me because she really did NEED me.

Can that be classified as love? Sure, but I'm not her dad.  She's got to get over that before I can ever even think of talking to her.

I think that I still love him or perhaps the longing is I am just jealous that he is with another woman. In my brain that makes me a loser. I know that I could not stand to be with him 5 minutes because of his lies and threats.  I fluctuate between feeling sorry for him and extreme anger.  My goal is to get to neutral.

[quote author=QuestioningFaith link=topic=209610.msg12321562#msg12321562 date=1380743252

Then I became "demanding, controlling, etc. etc. etc."

I'm the least controlling person I know.  I can't count the number of conversations we had where I said, "I want you to do whatever you want to do.  I accept it."

Is it controlling to want to know where your gf is after she cheats on you?  Is it paranoid to not believe her when she lies constantly? Is it controlling and demanding to ask questions and continue to ask them, until you get "truth" which is probably still only 1/2 true?

I don't know.  I don't care.  I was never dating the person I thought I was dating.  I was dating an image she showed me because she really did NEED me.

Can that be classified as love? Sure, but I'm not her dad.  She's got to get over that before I can ever even think of talking to her.[/quote]
I got the 'controlling' thing thrown at me too. Same - I wasn't jealous or possessive until he had been caught by me cheating online and was regularly taking off his wedding ring, telling me he was going to cheat on me and staying out all night.

Strange that you may want a little reassurance from them when they behave like that, and even stranger that they simply choose not to give it and in fact, positively fan the flames.

Yet I couldn't go out without him dropping me off and collecting me. Heaven forbid if I had a few drinks.

It amazes me how skewed it all was and how at the time I couldn't see that.

Good luck - you sound like you're doing good.

I feel this is key to moving on. Personally I still love my guy but I crave the sense of normality relationships previous to him had. I'd like to feel a sense of consistent love and affection in return, to be able to build a future together and know that my partner would always be there for me. I too have worried about not finding love of such intensity or chemistry beyond that I found and experienced in this relationship. I think that letting go of this thought and grounding myself by being positive and appreciating all the good in life will hopefully lead to even better experiences to come.

Imagine loving and being loved without the flip side that we experience in this kind of BPD or similar rs? This thought excites me and helps me to look into the future with wonder.