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Last week I got the I miss you text.  Now this week I get the "I've thought about texting/calling but I have the impression you're seeing someone and I don't want to bother you."  What the hell?  Now if he said "i'd like to talk... .but I don't know if you're seeing someone" I'd understand.  This was a guy who was always pretty straight forward. 

What does he want?... .

To hurt you again in x period of time.

Do not reply to his contacts.

Emelie

Ironmanfalls is right.   :)o not reply.

What does he want? Everything and nothing.

What he wants doesn't matter.

What do you want?

Self-honesty is important. Have you accepted that he's mentally ill? Are you committed to detaching or are you still on the fence about the reality of being with a person who has a severe emotional disorder?

It bears repeating: what they want doesn't matter. You can only control what you want.

You ex is possibly testing the waters to see if the hooks are still in. If you let him back in he'll know that you still want him.  This is what our ex's do: push/pull, recycle, abandon... .rinse, wash, repeat. They're mentally ill. They want you when they can't have you. They devalue you when you want them. You can't win for losing. They devalue you to others and they'll flip you off their radar when they're in the idealization stage with someone else.

It's the real them. And it's BPD. They cannot give us what they don't have.

Mine's texted me tonight will passive aggressive messages. I don't take the bait cause I don't want a mentally ill man. I'm done. Finished. Kaput. It's over. He can't make me happy even if he wanted to. He's sick in the head and heart and I was too. I'm better now. Wiser. Stronger. And I love myself enough to know that my ex will never have the keys to my happiness.

Again. What do you want?

Spell

Whatever it is, its an immature way to reach out to someone. And it has had the desired affect of you not knowing what it is about - he is wanting you to probe, inquire, ask questions - if you ask questions of him/about what hemeans it could show him you still care, want to communicate, reaching out.

Immature way to communicate and passive aggressive - reach out with little effort and it leaves you wondering! Does this ring bells of how it was in the relationship?

A response is as good as saying "you are forgiven, I dont hate you"


Yep and again we need to keep coming back to us!

Em, from this & your other posts, I don't think there's any mystery, nor is it pernicious or badly motivated.

I think he regrets the mess he made enormously. He does miss you. Yet, he has an enormous fear of rejection & can't straightforwardly ask for what he wants.

The downside as you know is that all those things can be true & yet he can lack all insight into how to make it better, how to avoid the cycle that led you here.

Well I did reply. I told him a few things I've wanted to tell him and that yes, I was seeing someone, albeit casually, but while I still have strong feelings for you I could not risk this again. It was too painful. And you know what he said?  Basically "you misunderstood me. I just wanted to see you but not if you're seeing someone else. And since you are I don't ever want to talk to you again.". I get that he's f'ed up. But he breaks my heart every time. And I let him. Please God don't let me EVER contact him again. NO ONE has ever been able to hurt me the way he does.

Hang in there Emelie.

Now you can sort of predict the kind of response you would get if he decides to contact you again... .

And again.

Your best defense... .

Do not reply.

I know its hard.

But it is for your well being.

What is most important about this latest interaction with your ex is that you told him the truth.

You are sweeping away the eggshells and that is big.

Now that you told him you're seeing someone you can be sure he will contact you again, since you probably triggered his abandonment fear again, the biggest hot button for a BPD.  So knowing that, have you said what you needed to say?  I don't know your story or if you've begun detaching, but you just went back to square one; you probably will be contacted and it probably won't be as 'pleasant' as the last one.  The best thing to do is have a plan, the best of which would be to delete whatever you get unread, because it will escalate, but whatever you do make sure you're centered.

Emelie, I am so sorry for that interaction.  That was awful.  His response was appalling, really appalling.  And so very, very undeserved given the honesty and clarity of your response. 

Your response was so clear and healthy, and as a consequence his issues were exposed so very clearly.

I hope and trust the memory of his irrational response and the pain it caused you will bring you wisdom and inform your future actions and reactions.

My heart goes out to you.  I also respect and am inspired by our candor, your pain and your growth.

Man... .I think that statement is true for most everyone here. It is INCREDIBLE how one person has so much power to get to us, even when they aren't trying.  When they are trying? Multiply the hurt ten fold.  It sucks that we committed so much of our happiness to them... .we put our happiness in the hands of people who never should have had it in the first place.

He has a fear of rejection, you rejected him (again), he (like many of us honestly) cannot concede that he wanted something you are telling him you will no longer give him.  Whence "you misunderstood me."

Honestly, on a weak day, I'd probably cover up my embarrassment in the same way.

And on top of turning him down, you confirm his fear that you are seeing someone, which hurts.  However irrational that is given that he ended your r/s.

I understand completely why it hurts to be told he doesn't want to speak to you again, but it is highly unlikely to be something he follows through with -- and in any event, I hope you can see it as his hurt feelings, which is written all over this exchange.

You were honest, that is great. He is hurt and sad.  I know it's confusing that he is acting like you did something to/took something from him, when the real chronology is the opposite, but when you consider that he ended things because he feared you would, you can see the the chain of hurt recedes infinitely ... .

You two are so obviously both sad about losing one another.  Yet you have decided, probably wisely, that you cannot go back given how he handles things in the r/s; and he isn't committing to any path of change or showing any insight.  That's just super hard.

This is a classic BPD "no good answers" scenario.  Em, if you are going to be in touch with him, you've got to anticipate that hurt and avoidance of hurt are his main preoccupation when it comes to you.  He is going to preemptively reject you if he thinks you are rejecting him.

I know so very well how much it hurts to have him put all the weight on you for a decision you didn't choose and a path you didn't want, a path that is making you very sad.  When in fact, it is his ... .inability ... .or unwillingness ... .to deal with his emotional dysfunction that sent you down this path.   

Emelie, do you want to have ongoing contact with your ex?

What he wants is to hear you say that you are available and willing to put up with his bad behavior. That you'll allow him back in to treat you like crap. You've done it before and he's hoping you'll do it again.

History tells you how this goes... .you know the drill.  The promises - broken.  The claims of love - false.  You have the opportunity here to make a new history.  A history that says "you don't get to treat me like crap and keep me in your world."  Are you ready for THAT history?

turtle

Except he won't be as straightforward and say that he's going to behave badly for you to be willing to put up with it.  It's more like he's hoping you'll be so lonely that you'll take any crumb he puts out there. 

So true.  Nothing worse than feeling alone when you're WITH someone.  I'd rather just be alone.  At least that's honest.

I've never felt more lonely than when I was with crazyx.  Lonliest time of my life!

turtle

I was at the point where I really didn't.  Well that's not quite accurate.  I did but knew it wasn't helping anything.  But this whole situation has gone from bad to worse.  After the "I never want to hear from you again" text they just kept coming in last night.  "What the heck!  All I'm trying to say is I could use a friend but if you're seeing someone it will hurt too much to see you.  Stop reading so much BS into my messages."  I finally snapped and replied that I was sick to death of this BS.  I wouldn't have to "read into" anything if he just said what he meant.  I was done being criticized by him.  So please just leave me alone.  Continued to receive messages this morning.  "Some friend you are.  I'm really hurting and you just pour it on."  "I can't be a civil grown up."  Then we move to plaintive.  "I was't a bad boyfriend was I?"  "I never did anything to intentionally hurt you."  And finally "I hate this and I need to talk to you.  I'm in a bad place.  Would you please call me."  I replied that I had lots of fires burning at work, which I did, and I would call him tonight.  Most BIZARRE conversation ever.  He wanted to know why I was so angry with him.  I said because you broke my heart.  I'm am very hurt.  I dealt with all of your issues and I tried to love you and support you and be there for you in every way.  And you walk away anyway.  And I felt used and discarded.  He said I walked away because you walked out on me that night. I said really... .let's be honest here... .the weeks leading up to it you were expressing a lot of ambivalence about the relationship.  You weren't sure.  He said you're right.  I wasn't.  I just didn't see it going anywhere. You weren't going to move into my house and I wasn't going to move into yours.  (What?)  Then he's sobbing his heart out and telling me he doesn't have anyone.  He's so sad and lonely he can't function.  He doesn't see a reason to get up in the morning.  That I was the only woman who ever really accepted him for who he was.  He needs me to be his friend.  

This is just crazy.  I said I was there for you.  I did accept you for who you were.  But you ended it with me.  I said do you understand how difficult this is for me to hear how alone you are when I was there for you?  And you decided you didn't want me anymore?  More sobbing.  He needs me to be his friend.  I was his best friend.  OMG.  At this point I'm sobbing.  I am so emotionally drained I can't see straight.  And I am seriously worried about him.  I said okay.  How can I be your friend?  What is it that you need from me?  He said just call me once in awhile.  Check in on me.  See how I'm doing.  Nobody cares about me.  It's too painful to see you but if you'd just call me once in awhile.  It broke my heart.  

I asked him to please consider getting some help.  (He knows it's BPD but he hasn't sought treatment.)  He won't.  He's read a lot and believes it's so hardwired into his brain that there is no help.  Said so someone can prescribe drugs (which he won't take) and I can go to therapy for ten years and not get better.  He said there is no hope.  Anyway I was getting nowhere with that.

He finally calmed down and I said tell me what's been going on with you?  How's the business?  How's your son etc.?  So he talked.  And things lightened up.  It's his 50th birthday next week so I asked what he was doing.  He said nothing.  I said why don't you go out with your son and his fiancee?  He said I'm not asking them to dinner on my birthday.  I said okay, mentioned a couple other friends.  No.  Finally I said how why don't you go have dinner with your Mom?  (She's 90 and fabulous and he adores her.)  Tell her you'd like to spend it with her.  He finally agreed that might be a good idea.  He said I just miss talking to you.  I loved you and I still do.  Of "all his ex-girlfriends I am the best."  What the heck?  I finally said hey... .I am just exhausted.  This has been an emotional day (he said for both of us).  I need to go to bed.  So he texted thank you for talking to me.  And followed up with "Thank you for making me feel the best I've felt in a long time.  That's what friends are for."

My head is freaking spinning.  He really still wants me to take care of him.  As his "friend".  I'm supposed to put aside all the hurt of his dumping me as his girlfriend and be there for him.  He truly doesn't get it.  And I know I should go NC with him but I do care about him and I'm worried sick about him.  I don't know what to do anymore.  

Emelie --

I know this is hard, but it seems that you DO know what to do.  You said you should go NC.  Your words.

It's a hard thing to do. I know that.  Many of us know that. They make it seem like their world/life will end if we don't continue to function for them. However, isn't it harder to remain in contact with someone who will only bring you pain? History proves that this is true. And... .have you really considered what's best for HIM?  Do you really believe it's in HIS best interest to have you as a safety net?

And are you even a tad insulted by the "friend" thing? It's so manipulative. You are NOT his friend and he is certainly not yours.  Do you have any other "friends" who treat you this way?

turtle

Emelie,

He will hurt you again.

It is why you need to go NC.

Further exposure to him is toxic to you.

Hey Ironman - He even used that word with me tonight.  Said "I am toxic."  (Referring to himself.)  And Turtle yes I am a bit insulted.  I can't believe it really.  What he's asking of me.  I was thinking I can't even believe how freaking selfish you are.  But he is in a bad place.  And the one thing he can't deal with is me thinking he's a "bad guy".  So fine.  I can give him that.  Doesn't cost me anything.  He is just so immature and emotionally damaged.  And believe me I know he'll meet someone else soon and won't "need" me anymore. 

Are you sure about that?

Why do you say it doesn't cost you anything?  Seems like it's cost you quite a bit.  Contact with them is ALWAYS expensive - in one way or another.

turtle

He wants you to soothe him.

Once he gets that from you... .

You know what will happen.

I know it hurts being in the position you are in.

The hurt will multiply if you stay.

Emelie

Be very careful.  You are about to be sucked back into BPDland.  Once there,

at his convenience... .and once he is SURE he has ruined your current relationship with another man... .he will probably find a reason to leave again.  This is typical of BPD.

PwBPD have a need to prove they CAN get you back, IF they so choose.  It is a control issue.  All he talks about is how lonely and needy HE is.  Can you not see he is minimizing your feelings into nothingness?  This is all about HIM.

No one can decide what is right for you but you.  The fact he states he just wants a friend to take care of him is honest.  :)o not believe this is something it is not, you will only get hurt again.  

YOU are being manipulated.

Can you think of some boundaries here?

1.  You will maintain friendships with people who are capable of being a friend.  If not capable they aren't your friend.

2.  You will be treated respectfully. Walk away disengage if not respectful

3.  You will not subject yourself to FOG.  You are not obligated to be his friend. You would be friends if #1 was true.

4.  You will live a healthy life.  Phone calls like that are not healthy for you, right?

Kormilda posted this thread... .in seeing your conversation all I could think was this is your guy saying Me, Me, Me.  I watched the two videos and could see how this mother was a me, me, me selfish person and how she truly wasn't capable.  It was very much an ah ha moment.  Not capable is the defining issue.  Your guy not capable either.  Now if I could just wrap my head around my own situation.  Easy to see someone else's stuff because there's no FOG.  My stuff very FOGGY.  I digress-- this is about you.  sorry.

   

Dr. Phil - Me Me Me The NPD/BPD Mother

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210210.0

MammaMia he is minimizing my feelings into nothing.  He was saying you still have friends, you still have a life, you're out enjoying yourself.  I am like DO YOU NOT GET THAT YOUR BROKE UP WITH ME?  I mean honest to God!  I told him you broke my heart.  He's sobbing "You're the only woman who ever truly accepted me for who I am."  I said and yet you decided you did not want to be with me!  He said I need you to be my friend.  I never did anything to hurt you.  This is crazy.  I couldn't sleep at all last night.  This morning I get a thank you for talking to me last night.  I just needed to talk to "someone".  Okay.  Whatever.  God he makes me want to scream.

Yes, yes it is, otherwise known as serious mental illness.  Mine tried several times to get back in my life, and having escaped the insanity and learned about the disorder, it was clear she wanted two things: she wanted validation, confirmation that I didn't hate her, since in her black and white thinking she's either god's gift or complete trash in her own head, and she couldn't handle confirmation of the latter, and #2 she really did like me a whole lot, and wanted to keep that in her life, without the 'ugliness', her word, of what shows up when she gets triggered; that continuous push/pull that is crazy-making to us, but they're somewhat used to since they've been dealing with it their whole lives.

Emelie, now that you are three months removed from the r/s, is your attraction to the exbf waning? Maybe his continued clinginess and your decision to stay broken up is a good thing. Power shift. Sure, it's driving you crazy, but maybe it's also helping you change your level of attraction to him because he's less the boyfriend role and more a self-centered friend who keeps busting boundaries. From your posts it sounds like he's become a pest you want to go away.

Or does he still pull on your heartstrings when he contacts you?

Both.  I see more clearly than ever how self centered and immature and unbalanced he is.  On the other hand... .I worry about him.  A lot.  He definitely pulls on my heart strings. 

A bunch of people from work usually go to Happy Hour on Thursdays.  He used to meet me there and we'd go have dinner afterwards.  I was there tonight and thought about how I was always so excited to see him... .so happy when he showed up.  Even a year into it.  He'd walk in and smile that sexy smile of his and I would just melt. 

When he had the big melt down the other night I asked "What do you want from me?"  He said I need you to be my friend.  I just want you to call me and check in on me once in awhile.  I don't have anybody else.  I know this is a slippery slope.  I know he gets what he needs and I get nothing in return.  I know when he meets someone new he won't welcome my checking in on him and that it will hurt.  I know even if he isn't seeing someone else he can turn on me in a minute.  But I can't completely abandon him.  I just can't.  I know I'm sounding melodramatic but I just can't.  I realize what I'm signing up for this time.  I know I can't "fix" him.  I know I'm going to get hurt.  But this guy is hurting bad.  Not just about us.  And I love him.

Emelie, where to from here is completely up to you – going by your posts this arrangements is not sitting well for you yet you persist.

Persistence hoping for more may never happen and leave you spent.

Where do you see yourself in 1 year, 2 years and 5 years?

How do you define a friendship?

I'm really don't think I'm hoping for more.  Or at least I know there won't be more.  And I know this is not a true "friendship".  I hope within a couple of years I'm in a healthy committed relationship.  I know I can't have that with him.  Breaks my heart but I've accepted that.  But accepting it and healing from it are two different things.  And I'm working on the healing. 

Good start Emelie

Gosh Emelie.  I identify with your situation so much, as I think I've said before.

First, about how he is behaving.  Reminds me so much of my exbf.  The passivity.  He later said the "ordeal" of us splitting up changed him "permanently & profoundly."  But he didn't do anything about it, you know?  It wouldn't have taken all that much -- a few words of regret, doubt, indicating that he wanted to talk it through & see what we could figure out.  But he did none of that.  Just seemed to sit there waiting for me to try to undo what he had done.

So long as I was trying to undo it ... .he was solid in his rejection of the r/s.

Ironically, or not, as soon as I accepted his decision (my logic was "any r/s you are so eager to leave isn't the r/s I thought it was", he made me responsible for the breakup.  In his mind, it was my decision we weren't talking about getting back together.  Even though he left me & gave no indication he was changing or open to changing his mind.

Even as I type out those words I can feel again the mind-warping quality of these situations.  Is down up?  Your guy acts as though the last thing in the world he wants it to be split up -- so long as you seem as adamant about splitting up as he does.  If you were to try to persuade him to try again, my guess is that within 48 hours, he'd suddenly be able to articulate again why you need to be apart.  It's like he can see everything that's good between you, and is just cannot bring himself to risk and try, in the way he'd need to to continue to be committed to that.

And then, your own decision about being friends.  As someone who's spent the last year on that road, I can say -- it can be excruciating.  It's one of those things where the better you do, the worse you do, because let's say the friendship goes great, without the stress and pressure of having to maintain a romantic commitment.  You guys like each other, get each other ... .then what?  What does that mean?  In normal life it means you're in love & you move heaven & earth to be together.  Not with BPD.  The better you do, the scarier you are, because you pose a fundamental question that is very uncomfortable for him.

I am pretty sure my ex is now seeing someone else.  But not completely sure.  And it's not supposed to matter, because we are "just friends."  But it does matter, because it displaces the intimacy of our amazing friendship, except the days when he's back "with" me for some reason, when the emotional intimacy is all still there.  It is phenomenally confusing and requires you maintaining a line in your head and heart, when your head & heart are screaming that there is not supposed to be a line there.

And there is a destructive feedback loop in my head that says if I were just more valuable or better somehow, he would try harder with me, and not look to someone else.

If you are going to do the friends route, you're right, it is going to hurt.  I found writing him & us off to hurt phenomenally as well, so I realize there may not be a non-hurting option.

If you stick with the friends plan though, just be aware that there is almost a mini-betrayal every time you have a good interaction with him.  It feels like a betrayal (to me) when he then goes on his way.  You have to have phenomenal discipline over what you are doing & why, to avoid getting sucked into that confusion.  I cannot exaggerate the necessity of radical acceptance of the limits, the need to commit to reality over illusion, the need to abandon all hope that things will be other than as they are.  I thought I was up to that, but it is so hard when you are caught between your memories of things being otherwise, on the one hand, and an important, meaningful connection that you have built with this person post r/s.  It is so hard to understand that it cannot be more.

I don't think you are wrong not to walk away.  But it is going to require a lot of clarity not to get chewed up by being in such proximity to someone you love, who also in his way loves you, and not to be able to bridge that gap.