BPDFamily.com

I started seeing a therapist two weeks after the b/u with my BPDbf three months ago.

I am not sure if this therapist is helping me. I've been going to her almost weekly for 2.5 months, but I don't feel like there has been any progress.

She does a pretty good job of helping me connect the events in my life to my current state of unhappiness and loneliness and allowing me to express myself, but it still feels like I have to say and direct everything. She doesn't do much guiding or provide much insight. Every session begins with whatever I want to say that day. The problem with this is the conversations are usually on a loop with the same topics: I'm heartbroken, I'm exhausted, I'm lonely, I'm lost. For two months that's all we've talked about and while that's a lot of territory to cover, it seems like the stories are the same. Sometimes I want her to take the lead and ask me more questions. I want her to help me do more digging. It feels like the sessions are not going anywhere. Maybe I need to give it more time. Or come more prepared with stuff I need to work out.

Also, I get the sense that she is rooting for me to have a happy ending scenario with my exBPD guy. She knows how devastating the b/u was, she knows I was in love with him and want badly to move back to the town where he lives (with or without him I miss that town and want to be there regardless), she knows I want to marry and settle down, and she knows I suspect he has BPD because he shows all the classic symptoms and I've given her details of how he treated me. She knows BPD is very tough to live with. She feels bad for me.

But it's like she doesn't get it that the r/s is dead. Dead because he rejected me after leading me on about marriage. Dead because he is an alcoholic. Dead because I moved away for a job. Dead because he doesn't love me anymore.

Today she asked to see a picture of my exBPDguy. I thought that was strange. At first I hesitated, then I pulled up a pic on my camera that was the best picture of me and him in happy days. It's a flattering picture of both of us. We are embracing and looking at the camera. She looked at it and said, He's handsome and you look so happy. I left the session feeling worse.

I've also dropped a lot of hints as well as outright said that I am severely depressed, yet these conversations go nowhere. I said today that I wake up every morning not caring about anything. Her only reaction to that was a sound like, "Oh, that's not good."

I've been in therapy before, years ago, following a painful b/u from a non-BPD guy. I saw that therapist every week for a couple of months and I thought she was excellent. She was a good listener (had amazing recall abilities) and she asked the right questions. She made me think. She was firm and sharp. I can't see her because I moved since last going to her and I had to find a therapist in my new city.

Any advice on how to approach measuring progress in therapy? What to look for? I feel it is unfair to compare my only two therapists with each other because I know each person has their own style. I just felt I got more out of the one lady than the one I see now.

Maybe it's me? Maybe I'm not listening closely to my current therapist. Maybe I don't know what I need out of our sessions? 

I found psychologist in www.therapists.psychologytoday.com/   looking for my zip code and found descriptions of them. Was looking for someone that was a life coach (whatever that means)... and generally sounded right... .one guy stood out... I had a session with him (asking him questions mostly and found he had been in a r/s with a pwBPD and had treated a few pwBPD... and we had other things in common, so I felt hopeful.

Up front... I think you need a goal when you go in... its pricey for nebulous talk. I was being torn between my pwBPD and my wife I was divorcing... and the stress was intense, so my goal #1 ... was to de-stress somehow. My therapist had me get Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth"... and pursue mindfulness. Was most skeptical person possible on it, but tried and was delighted... after about 2 weeks of trying it... my stress level dropped by about 90%. Keeping at it after a few months, I was far less stressed than I have been most my life... that mindfulness victory... was the main one for probably 3 months. Started questioning if I needed therapy... .but I hadn't had much.

Digging in to things... I went from viewing my problem being the breakup with this "disordered sick woman"... who I still felt deeply for... .to realizing that my problems started way before the r/s with the pwBPD. Our uprbringings do have a big effect on us. Eventually it became clear to me that... having a mother that lost her mother when she was 5, who later married my dad (a malignant NPD person... truly horrible... whole family has been estranged from him for last 14 yrs.)... then divorced ... after moving ever few years (meaning I lost all my friends over and over)... well I thought I got out of it all "unscathed".

I was wrong. The hole left from my cold as ice mother, and everything else... left me needing something, the kind of unconditional love people are supposed to get an infant... so I was unsecurely attached and kept people at a distance and had trouble trusting anyone enough to be genuinely intimate. What is the relevance you might ask? A pwBPD ignores boundaries, like the ones that keep most people at arms length. My pwBPD got past my defenses, came in and got close/initimate and love bombed, mirrored and blew smoke ... and I ate it up. Thought she was the one... in fact accepted her as the primary r/s... loving parent I never had. Then when her fangs came out, and she became a hater... I took it, and assumed it was me in the wrong... then she dumped me and it was like having a parent die... the suffering was intense and followed by depression.

Figuring all that out... took a lot of time... I needed someone to talk things out with, someone with no dog in the race. And my T gave me that. My sister was supportive, but didn't understand why I didn't just bounce back and date other people... my T had been through it and really understood. This site bpdfamily.com/bpdfamily... has been wonderfull... being able to ask questions, read others in same situations observations... organize my scrambled post b/u thoughts in to complete sentences and get feedback... helped to understand what happened... why it happened and more recently what I need to do about it... .my conclusion was that my problems go back to childhood, I don't connect well enough with people. Brene Brown's book ":)aring Greatly"... was very helpful in understanding the problem and solution. When you have been hurt a lot you compensate... you hold back, disconnect a bit from feelings and avoid being vulnerable... thats keeping people at a distance. Disconnecting from bad feelings only isn't possible... if you unhook from bad... you unhook from good too... and end up feeling disconnected, numb, and like life is passing you bye. That was my state when I ran in to my pwBPD again and she turned my life upside down. The pain was intense, but I felt alive. She forced me to be connected... but it was hellish bad. After the r/s... I want to feel connected and alive, but not at the cost of being with her. So now I am working on learning to be vulnerable and connect with people.

I think its possible for someone to get quick results in therapy... .if they need something simple and are clear about what it is and go to the right therapist... but if you don't know what the problem is, blame it on someone else or vacillate a lot (which I did)... they have a hard time focusing for you. A lot of what a therapist does... .is just listen. And that can help if you solve your own problems... .but if you don't... .you need to have a goal and be on them as to what you do to get there.

Your comments on your T... .doesn't sound like she is seeing your outcome as moving down the road from the guy... more like reconciling. Few people would want you to reconcile with someone with BPD if they fully comprehended the situation... I would ask what your T sees the outcome your working towards as, and whatever other questions you feel like asking here... .and if they are way off of what you want, discuss it, and consider a different T if your not compatible enough. They go by what you say and do.

Yeah, I agree with Charred that having a goal in therapy is essential.

What type of therapy does your current therapist practice? It sounds like she has a very non-directive approach i.e. listen, validate what you have to say, let you make your own decisions. What qualifications and training does she have?

I think that going to a therapist with a directive approach would be a better option for you. A therapist with a directive approach means that they give you advice, ask you direct questions, push you towards change more.

What issue do you want to deal with in therapy at the moment? If it's the depression itself, then I'd say going to a CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy) therapist would be a good option. A CBT therapist will give you homework each week and will make you set therapeutic goals.

If you feel that you have severe depression, then I would say go to your doctor asap and look at your options medication wise too. A doctor will also be able to refer you onto a psychologist. Psychologists have the most qualifications and training so I'd say opt for a psychologist.

I gave the link only because its the only thing I know where you can find descriptions of what various therapist specialize in and that kind of thing. Tried angieslist for a bunch of stuff and in my big city... only 6 reviews of ANY kind... pretty worthless. So... that might help a bit.

I wouldn't underestimate the value of being active on these boards... the tools and articles and postings are very helpful. Mindfulness for me was a critical first step... because it stopped the endless ruminating ... .and that was driving worry and depression. Once that stopped I was seriously relieved... but still pretty depressed. I wanted to understand what happened and why... .T was not helpful, this site was very helpful. Trying to put the explanation in to my own words... very helpful as well. There was a lot of hurt and anger and confusion from the b/u. As I said... to me it seemed that my pwBPD got past my defenses... and was put in the position of a parent (psychologically)... and that primed me to take a lot of abuse when I wouldn't normally... and when we b/u... .it felt like the death of a parent. What I didn't mention was that there was a 27 yr gap between the first time we dated and this set of go-rounds... .yet despite that long time... ALL the feelings were back when I heard her voice... it confounded me. So my explanation... the pwBPD became like a primary r/s... a substitute for a warm/unconditionally loving mother. YMMV... .but it seems the same for many people, and explains deep depression over a breakup instead of the typical brief funk and move on with little lingering anything.  Consequently... reading on dealing with the death of a parent... while morbid... addresses the sense of loss better than most typical things on a b/u.

Asking to see a picture of your exBF... .is odd, but could be done to see your triggered reactions to it/him... .as it would be a strong trigger for feelings. If it were a normal b/u... then seeing you still care and hearing he still says he did would make a T want to work you towards being back together. Understanding how toxic an r/s with a pwBPD can be, the T should be helping you work through recovering from the trauma... .as that is what a bad BPD b/u is.

Its hard to think or have any goals/ambition when you are devastated... .been there. Ending the current pain was first goal... .mindfulness stopped the ruminating that was hurting/depressing me... its pretty well recommended, see if your T can help with that perhaps. Once I was stable ... .had to understand why it happened. That was all consuming goal for a while. Understanding helped my head a bit, did little for my heart/feelings/motivation... .and it didn't stop my rationalizing/wishing/considering doing it again. In fact I recycled a total of about 7 times... .but only once after getting a T... and I never even saw her duing it. Had made the decision to give reality not wishing the upper hand... so I talked and was pleasant and she started going down path of craziness... saying things that were not true, blaming everything... and she went from nice to hater without ever seeing her... and trusting the  red-flag , and verifying things... .finally got me to fully accept reality... .that she was not the dream girl I illusion-ed her to be. So another goal became... to stop rationalizing/wishing/reconsidering and accept situation for what it is. That was truly helpful, and hard... .and might be another good goal to pursue.

Once I got it was over and I needed to move on ... .people on board ... via posts... .led me to realize the issue didn't start/end with my pwBPD. I had my own attachment issues, in that I keep people at arms length and avoid being intimate/close with people (everyone... family, friends... when I used to have them, and significant others)... digging in to attachment theory explained a lot of why I am like I am... (the negative parts in particular)... there is a thing called schema therapy that is based on attachment theory and was originally developed for addressing BPD... it isn't a cure for BPD... but it is very good at nailing down your own attachment issues and fleas that bother others and keep them at a distance... and its not very painful... google it and take the online tests and see where you fall ... .there is a lot of discussion on these boards on schema therapy and it is helpful for identifying minor stuff and working on it... more goals... but not really a cure for my issue. What finally clicked with me was that ... connecting with people is what people with attachment issues have trouble with... in fact a whole bunch of problems of a psych nature ... go back to how we handle being insecurely attached... and learning to attach better seemed the obvious solution... but changing my ways is HARD... not scared of most scary things... but getting close to people ... oddly hard. Brene Brown's research and book... pointed way... as she concluded that cure to not attaching well is learning to attach well... .and trick to that is being vulnerable... so how do you learn to be vulnerable? That is where I am and am working on meeting and making new connections.

I went through all that... because when I first went in to my T... I just wanted the stress gone... couldn't take it, was getting hives and was miserable. Then I was depressed and had no direction, no sense of purpose, no goals, no drive. Read up on codependency and thought ... .well my self is so beat down I don't know what i want or who I am... but while codependency describes the symptoms... it wasn't really what was the problem. When you deal with trauma as a kid you can process the feelings, or try to avoid them, or disconnect from them like you were not there. The disconnecting/disassociating works, and blunts the feelings... but it is a poor choice for how to deal with situations in general. Over the years, I got better and better at not feeling anything, being numb... and that disconnecting from good feelings... .also disconnects you from bad ones... and from feeling alive. The r/s with the pwBPD... .brought back all the feelings I blocked good/bad... and was like going to technicolor 3d/sensaround... .after being in a small B/W existence. Having that feeling of being alive/emotional drop off with the b/u ... .has been the proof I needed to understand the problem was not just my pwBPD... it was me, it went back to my FOO, and my real choices are to stay as I have been (numb/disconnected/cerebral/alone mentally)... .or reconnect ... I want to reconnect. So being vulnerable, meeting people, changing my habits, overcoming my skepticism enough to trust... .those are things that are so foreign I need a T for help, and if mine doesn't get me there, I will try another.

It all comes back to what do you want/need from therapy to be where you need to be? Talk with current one before you toss her to curb... they don't always tell you all that they are doing/thinking/up to. Just having someone to hear you out is very valuable... took a long time before I trusted mine enough to get very real with him.

You have gotten good advice thus far - a therapy goal is important.

Specifically, what is it you want from therapy at this point?

I've seen three different therapists during the course of my BPD relationship and in the aftermath. They were all different in their approach, focusing on different things. The one I stuck with is very good at explaining AND giving me tools and/or things to try. In fact, the T that I stuck with is the one who gave me the ideas to try in my relationship that made me finally open my eyes that I needed to end it, but he never suggested ending the relationship itself. He does start out sessions simply by asking me what's up, but he is very good on zeroing in on what he thinks are the things to discuss and work on. I am also not afraid to redirect the discussion if I think he is mistaken about my concerns.

The first T that I had was one I had a limited number of free sessions with through my employer. During the 2nd session she was somewhat surprised that I hadn't broken up and/or wasn't 100% committed to detaching from my now-exBPDgf after doing my "homework" reading "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" (but the T did work with me from the staNPDoint of I wasn't yet ready to make a decision once they understood where I was coming from). And the last session when I expressed my thoughts about what if I met somebody who seemed great for me but I'm still with my BPDgf, the T point blank told me to break up with my BPDgf and go with the new woman. T's exact words were, "Then you dump [BPDgf's name] and date the new woman!"  lol

In my opinion, if I am paying a health care professional, then when I don't understand something about the treatment, I am entitled to ask for clarification. Why should I mindlessly pay money and simply accept their opinions and advice if I don't understand, or even worse don't think I am getting what I am paying for?

You are correct in recognizing not all therapists work in the same manner. At the same time, you should be willing to speak up about your concerns; have you been assertive about them? Is it possible that you have some "aftershocks" holding you back from doing that simply because it's possible that you were "walking on eggshells" in your BPD relationship for so long that you find it hard to be "confrontational" or at least assertive for your own sake? If one of your goals is to detach from your BPDbf, then maybe write it down on a piece of paper or in a notebook and write down any other concerns or things you want to hash out and bring that with you to the next session. I always bring a little pocket notebook to take down notes to my session because I know I will likely forget important things otherwise.

Thank you Charred, Music Fan, Seeking, and Learning for the good advice on therapy.

I have been putting off going to the doctor for anti-depressants for the sheer fact that I have had no energy to take the extra step in finding a primary care physician. I'm glad I found the therapist, which is a start. I do think about how nice it would be to have a prescription for anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication. Not only am I going through emotional pain from the breakup and general life curve balls right now, I am also stressed out from my job. Life and strife is coming at me from all angles and it's difficult. 

I will take the assorted advice and talk to my T about being more focused and identifying goals. My goal is to stop hurting, but I know that's nebulous. I also am aware of the other factors in my life that made me vulnerable to putting everything I had into a fantasy r/s. I bet the house and lost. Which stems from my own major attachment and abandonment issues. And all this during an early mid-life crisis. Lovely!

Hey Peas!  I must say, your most recent post was succinct, clear and insightful!  Whatever you are doing is working! 

Seriously, being able to define your questions, identify your needs, know your shortcomings is huge... .and having perspective on yourself as you do is terrific. 

Sometimes we are the last ones to see how much progress we have made.

This was a great conversation, by the way.  The comments from everyone were incredibly helpful to me.  Thank you all!

You are right Winston, sometimes we are the last ones to identify our own progress. Thank you for the encouraging words. And I'm glad this thread has brought you some ideas in your healing journey.

Peas,

Your far from alone... .I am 51, mid life crisis(y) ... and was stressed beyond belief.

Mentioned a lot of it.

Been on anti-depressants before... .but the mindfulness worked far better, with no medical side effects. Anti-anxiety meds... .made me feel weirded out... very odd, hated the way those were... .they did quell the anxiety, but it doesn't need quelling... it needs to be dealt with. Mindfulness can help stop the ruminating and make a huge difference in your stress level and well being. I just cleared a year of N/C post breakup and am starting to finally get motivated... .but it started out with me barely functioning. During my divorce (to be with the pwBPD... big mistake)... I didn't deal with the stress directly... and got to the point that the best thing I could do was housework... it was mindless and at least left me feeling like I was able to do SOMETHING right. You have to have a prescription for meds... not for mindfulness.

Sounds like you are having a hard time making decisions, feeling certainty, doing basic stuff... .that is how I felt... and I think it was deep depression... .and that came from putting the pwBPD deep down as a primary r/s... .and then experiencing the end of the r/s as super brutal, like the death of a parent.  That kind of hurt is debilitating... keep active, keep whatever support system (family, close friends, a T)... available till you have gotten over the hump. For me mindfulness stopped the worst of it... and I started to barely function again and slowly move forward. It is intense... and people that haven't been through it, typically don't get it.

Posting helps a lot... .just forming the questions, putting coherent thoughts together... .considering possibilities... .those things are what grinds to a halt when you are devastated... .I found it hard to make any decisions on anything... .was too apathetic to care... .and ruminating too much to function. Mindfulness amounts to being in the current moment... experiencing what is going on now... not worrying about future, or having trouble digesting the past... .it is worth a try.

What do you mean by this charred?

Charred, this:


That is exactly what I'm going through. I made the BPD guy my primary r/s. My family and closest friends are spread out across the country. I was easily hooked when my ex picked me out of the crowd and reeled me in. I made him my family immediately.

Also, I'm 42. I have always been independent, a free spirit of sorts, but around 40 I started to feel this hard pull toward settling down. I was never one to watch the biological clock, but that started to kick in too. And guess what? BPD guy wanted kids! He wanted to marry me!

The economy destroyed my job and my savings. So now I'm suddenly hit with being single again, broke and starting over in a new career that took me to a new city (amid all those setbacks I got lucky and landed a dream job with good pay and benefits; but it's still stressful work). So there was all that recent transition while I was trying to maintain a long-distance BPD r/s and subsequent b/u. I'm still working through all that.

Hi peas

A lot of good things are said here.

I would like to add this:

Trust your guts. Being more assertive about what you want is a good plan, and lets see, what she is doing with it.

Anti-anxiety/stress drugs... .which I have had prescriptions for... and which had side effects(like making me feel woozy and like I was not myself). They did numb/quell the anxiety, but they didn't address the problems.

For me, mindfulness was very effective. If it has a downside it is... .stopping you from wanting to do anything as you just are enjoying the moment... .which is very pleasant... .and which I spent most my years not doing.

I have learned to enjoy being alone and enjoy my own company... .that was an unexpected pleasant surprise.

My life is chock full of accomplishments that I planned/worried about while frittering away my present time... .and most of the accomplishments were hollow victories... .diversions from facing up to my real problems... which are mostly wanting to be close to people.

Drugs have a place, and for some things they are the best choice... .but my issues go back to how I thought and dealt with problems/emotions/feelings... .and I mostly dealt with them by disconnecting/numbing myself and avoiding the feelings and situations where my feelings might get hurt. The result was feeling less than alive... being disconnected.

Stopping the worrying and ruminating was critical... .and being drugged to numb my anxious feelings... while it might help the current feelings, was not the way to go for me, I don't want to keep being numb... I wanted the stress to pass, and to process the feelings, do the right things and be a more normal loving person.

I went to see a T originally, because my medical doctor told me I should see one ... .when I asked about getting something medicinal for my stress (that was causing hives, and lack of sleep)... .I have thanked her for sending me a few times.

That was all I meant about not needing a prescription for mindfulness... .it was kind of a non-sequitur where I said it... .I did say that posting was helpful in part as it helps to string thoughts together in complete sentences... that kind of thing... I didn't say I editing was unnecessary or that I was fully lucent all the time... still a touch scrambled.

Hey peas, this is a really good thing you've decided. And to say that your goal is nebulous is where you can lean on your T's guidance, otherwise you'd just do it yourself without them!  :)

I am similar age to you and similar temperment (free spirit, independent), though as a male, I don't have any biological urge to "settle down". I did feel that upon meeting my BPDex that she was somebody that I'd be happy to settle down with. It took me a while to realize that was a fantasy.

I had two Ts like this and for whatever reason, it wasn't the right fit for me. I did much better with someone who was action-oriented and not afraid to call me on stuff. She also gave me all these missions (my word) for things I had to do in the world. That let me link my FOO to N/BPDx to new situations that I could practice on, so that some of the biggest breakthroughs I had were on my own.


I wonder if making a plan might help? I felt so dithery about making decisions during the worst parts of my divorce from N/BPDx because I felt so overwhelmed by everything. It was advice from friends here who suggested I make a plan for myself and stick to it.

Something like

1. I will tell my T that I feel at loose ends about our sessions, and have these thoughts about her based on these observations (like the photo, your suspicion she wants the r/s to reconcile, etc.).

2. I will continue to see her for x number of times before I decide to find someone else.

3. I will contact 3 other Ts and ask them how they would work with me given the issues I am working on.

4. I will research other therapies to see if maybe that is the right approach for the issues I'm trying to work through.

That kind of thing.

It's hard when you feel depressed and stressed. Working through post BPD r/s issues felt like quicksand to me. It felt like there was nothing to hang onto, just pieces of self, not sure which ones to trust, which ones to use in the rebuild, which ones to chuck. I tried to create a plan for myself so there was some rope to help me through the darkness. It was so hard just making simple decisions, much less big ones, and I needed the rope.

Livednlearned, thank you for the excellent feedback. I do think it's a matter of going into my sessions more purpose-driven. I also need to feel okay changing therapists. I need to remember this is about me and what's best. I worried about hurting this therapist's feelings and being awkward telling her I am not feeling any progress, but I have to confront that and put it all out there.

I also like the idea of forming a plan to assess this therapist and make a possible switch.

If she's not the right fit, she's not the right fit. Or maybe she is and a correction is in order for how we handle my treatment.

Hi, update:

I saw my therapist today for the first time since posting this thread about whether she was the right fit or if I was getting anything out of it. I appreciate the feedback and I went into the session feeling like taking charge. I asked my therapist about measuring progress and she gave me some feedback about what she has been hearing from me, my story and her observations. She was correct.

This was a very productive session, but besides me asking about my progress, a big variable in the productivity was on a whim I changed the conversation style. I chose to lie down on the couch with her taking notes behind me rather than do face-to-face discussion.

This was huge! I had never done the lying down thing before -- it's what you see in the movies -- but this was good for me because instead of looking at her directly, which may throw me off or make me guarded, I just looked up at the ceiling tiles and talked and talked and talked. And the topics flowed together and were making sense and were deep.

So now I'm all about the lying down style.