BPDFamily.com

I am trying to ease my pwBPD out of the house, since I know she is still lying and carrying on with her current love obsession. I own our home, but she threw out, "what if you leave?" I don't think so! Besides, she couldn't afford the mortgage payment... .In any case, I am wondering if I should sit down with her calmly and come up with a Parenting Agreement? The one attorney I talked to said that she and I should and could do so for the best interest of the children (very young), be flexible, but stick closely to it, and document everything. That way, when we finally settle custody legally, there shouldn't be problems (famous last words). I am meeting with another soon, of whom I will ask these questions and many more. The first threw out that my diagnosis of BPD was irrelevant as far as the law is concerned, but we all know how these things go south with BPDs.

I know that having one contact her will trigger intense anger at her, a point she is not at me with right now, being obsessed with her love interest. But I don't want to get caught responding to something she starts legally (the first attorney advised me, and that makes sense). She actually flat-out refused to leave the house if I didn't pay her off with thousands of dollars in "seed" money, something I am not averse to (and will probably do... .documented and signed), but legally I don't owe her anything, other than to her possessions, which I said, "no problem, take them." If I have to evict her, this could get messy... .just trying to help her out and ease her out gently now. I fear for my kids due some things she had told me about her flame (in perhaps the most open and honest conversation we've had in years), but that was before I told her it was my decision, too, and that I wanted her to leave instead of treading water.

Though any advice would be appreciated, my thought now is to ease her out, pay her off, write up a draft of the plan, alter with her as necessary. Then have an attorney on standby. I really think like someone else said that she could get one to work for her pro bono, due to factors I won't go into here. -Turkish

There are many other more experienced members on this board, but my suggestion is this make sure you talk to an attorney that has experience with high-conflict divorce. 

Being nice and playing fair is rarely reciprocated.  If you give an inch, they go for the mile. 


Do a bit of research through on-ine public records (your county and/or the county the new bf is from. Also check surrounding counties)  Most county-based sites are free.  You can also Google his name in quotation marks--you might be surprised what pops up--like mugshots.  Also write down to the best of your memory what she told you about him. Ask if it is enough to have something put in place so the kids never come in contact with him?  It won't prevent it, but gives you actionable cause.

So true.  Get the confidential advice of multiple family law attorneys.  (Talking and sharing information with your spouse is good when the goal is to maintain or recover a relationship.  Sharing confidential legal advice when contemplating separation or divorce is correctly called self-sabotage.  Even giving a "warning" can sometimes trigger obstructions, delays and - worst of all - false allegations meant to sabotage your ability to exit with parenting intact and make you look as bad as or worse then the spouse.

Getting an informal agreement together in writing sounds nice and may very well be helpful but... .

• Your spouse may ignore it later



• Your court may ignore it since it doesn't have the weight of a court order



• You may mistakenly give her more custody/parenting/support than is advisable

A few consultations (free or inexpensive, you don't have to pay a retainer until you choose to hire one) will give you an idea of typical outcomes in your county regarding custody, parenting schedule, child support, temporary spousal support, short term alimony, splitting marital assets, splitting bank accounts and property, splitting credit accounts and debts, etc.  Give the child-related issues the #1 priority, the rest is usually fairly straightforward.

Remember, temporary orders generally have a tendency to morph into final orders.  For that reason, try to get the very best initial orders possible, right from the start.  (My lawyer told me, ":)on't worry, we'll fix it later."  That was a hugely expensive misstep!)  Once the lawyers have given you an idea of what usually happens in your area and some strategies to get a better outcome, then you'll know whether making a deal, even if she later reneges on it, is helpful or self-sabotaging.

She told me a lot. I know who he is, where he goes to school, she told me his age also. I didn't snap a photo of him on her phone (she has since locked it), but I know in general what he looks like, too.

The funny thing is the other night, she was checking the county court page. I thought this was to get something against me, but it was to obtain criminal background checks. So she is up to her old tricks... .she told me she always ran background checks on potential boyfriends (I was ok, since the way we met, I had already gone through that for something else and she knew it). I may still tell her that juvenile records are likely sealed. I doubt this will last, but her comment that he wanted to meet our son (not our daughter?) struck me as WEIRD, and disconcerting, considering his background. Some kind of attachment thing... .

This is good advice. I already had a phone consultation with one, but am meeting with another in two weeks in person with my list of questions. We are not married, so that makes it a lot easier as far as property (mostly mine, with most of the furniture and stuff hers... .I told her to go ahead and take it, no problem). She still wants a few thousand dollars of seed money or she will refuse to leave. So I am going to pay her off to get her out, with some document in writing, signed, as to what it is for, and the disposition of her property in our house (like one month to get it out, or I consider it "abandoned".

We only have one common bank account, which I said she could liquidate and have. One car together, which we will hopefully take care of this weekend to get my name off of it, after which we will have no ties financially except for her name being on the title of an old bike of mine. It is not worth much, so I may just leave that... .but it may be good to get her to sign off on it just the same.

Talked to our therapist yesterday, and his opinion (he met with her for a while until she stopped going) is that given all of this, and the stuff I read to him which I caught her writing to her "love", even with a 50-50 agreement, I will end up having the kids more. She basically wants to live the teenage life with no responsibilities, though on the surface she is a good mother and loves the kids a lot. It is still strange to me that she sleeps on the couch, whereas I sleep with the kids in their room for now. I keep hoping she will ask to stay with them, but on that, she is still disconnected... .sad. Right now, she is not mad at me, and cordial. I know I have been triggering the arguments, so I stopped doing that. Trust nothing, I know, but for now it is detente, until she is out.

So not married.  What about the home?  Whose name is it on it?  And do you own or rent?


Each state has abandoned property laws.  You should check into that to see when something is considered abandoned.

Also, if it's just your name on the home (whether on the deed or the lease as applicable), and she's not on any of the paperwork, then she's most likely considered a "Tenant at Will".  That means she has legal rights to live there until she moves out voluntarily or is evicted.

In your case, she's threatening to not leave unless you pay her.  Another option you have is to evict her.  You can do some research and learn about it yourself, but basically you'd file the paperwork at the magistrate (or applicable authority in your area), they'd serve her, then there's hearings as to whether she should be evicted or not.  If it's approved, then you go get a Writ of Dispossession, take it to the Sheriff and they show up and put all her stuff out by the curb.  It's a lot cheaper and if done right, can be faster, than paying her off, then having her still refuse to leave.

With kids involved, have you considered evicting her, and then also filing for primary custody of the kids?  It's their normal home, and making the argument that they should get to stay in the home they are used to so they are less effected by the split is a strong one.  They get to keep the same neighborhood friends, same schools, etc.  Maintaining consistency is key for them.

I know it's tempting to try to make things as easy on the pwBPD as we can, and to us, it even seems reasonable and fair, but a pwBPD will just take advantage of your good will.  You can always cut a fair deal sometime in the middle of all this, but at the same time, I'd advise you to initiate a harder stance for firm boundaries that you're not going to be manipulated or pushed around.  She likely won't engage in fair play unless she's backed into a corner.

Document and document. Write everything down. Make copies of important papers and take them else where for safe keeping.

I take it you have kids between the two of you? You are correct that she wants to play the teen life and if you maintain your parenting and she does not see you as a threat, she will relent with time and allow you plenty of kid time. They love their kids but not like a normal person does. When they are in the throes of the 'new guy' they wont even remember their kids and the kids are the last thing on their mind.

Not always though as there are horror stories out there and thats why you should document all the things you do and what she does. Not for any other reason but in the event you need it.

This is like a built up to war except you dont want war. But in the meantime collect all that could possibly be usefull to you should it come to that. In other words collect your ammunuition and do NOT allow her to know what you have as far as evidence goes. That s why you want it out so she cant find it should she become vindictive and look for ammunition of her own.

One thing is pretty much gaurenteed, she will not make it any easier going forward. So if you do have an agreement try to at least get it on paper and 'negotiate' with her while she is still in her honeymoon stage with the new flame. She is distracted and enthralled at the moment so you want to move forward stealthily and swiftly before she starts to see things for what they are.

I have been in your exact shoes. I gave mine tens of thousands of my retirement account in order to settle with her and finalized things. The money becomes the least of your concerns. If it takes a bit of seed money to get her out thats good. Plus I take it she is leaving the kids... Thats a plus for you because the first one that leaves the kids is usually the one giving them up in the eyes of the court

If you havent, I would strongly suggest reading 'Splitting'. It is invaluable in laying down your plans and moving forward while protecting yourself

-slimmiller

That is very weird in a very creepy way.  Check the sex offender site for your area as well.

If possible, get the kid's birth certificates and Social Security cards stashed in a safe place, as well as immunization records, income tax returns, etc.  Documents tend to go "missing" or are destroyed to delay things. 

I own it, my name only, I've been making the mortgage payments and all applicable upkeep and improvements. She has contributed some, but no where near the amount she says.



That is interesting... .I think I might lose the goodwill of her family (which I have at this point) if I file for primary custody, She is adamant about getting a two bedroom apartment. I know for a fact that she will not be able to keep that up long, even if I pay half the childcare (and medical, 529, etc, which I have been since the beginning). I have some of the messages she was sending to her beau, but nothing that would stand up as "evidence" that she wrote them. Our therapist believes me, but that is about it. I asked him yesterday if it looked bad that I am continuing to go once a week (twice the week previous). He said no, the opposite, as it shows character, and the fact that she abandoned it after two sessions shows the opposite for her. I also have an email requesting her that I see her HMO therapist, which shows me wanting further to work it out. After out conversation where I said I think she should leave, she hasn't mentioned it again, and won't, though I suppose I could do some digging and find out.

I started a log book detailing the almost day-to-day events as well, commenting on the weird things she said about the guy. Keeping it at work. I have the key to a safe I just installed, so I will store other things in there at home, perhaps. I suppose with a subpoena, they can access her email records to show her state of mind, but that might be assuming too much (I have nothing to hide in mine!), should it come to that. I get what everyone is saying about establishing boundaries. I think once we get rid of the car we jointly own this weekend, things will accelerate. In my jurisdiction, eviction is 60 days. Two months of her in the home having access to everything. Maybe I will pay to get cameras installed to monitor the door... .but that might be tipping my hand. Later, certainly will do so.

As for the sex offender thing, I already checked. But knowing her, she would have checked, too. She is gone, but not that far gone, as she is paranoid about that stuff, just blind to the warning signs in front of her because she is so enamored. It could be, perhaps, that this has made her think about cutting it off with him (too late for me!), but there will be others... .she is a very pretty woman, and though guarded, gets approached all of the time. Funny, but my first impression upon seeing her when I walked into the room was, "she is pretty, and looks interesting... .but looks like she doesn't trust people, and is guarded... ." Should have listened to my gut!

There is the off chance that she might break down and tell me she wants to stay. A few weeks ago, that may have been possible, but her continuing deception (despite the fact that our therapist said that affairs typically wind down slowly) and snapping back to all of the lovey-dovey lost soul messages means it is right there under the surface so, NO. Now, I would have a whole long list of conditions (checking her secret email account, texts, TOTAL honesty as to what's been going on, not just the half truths she told me the other day, the honesty of which did surprise me) that I don't think she would agree to. Besides, I can't "save" her, even to save my family; no one can. She needs to find that out on her own, even if it never happens. -Turkish

Many of the members here report very child-possessive, controlling, demanding spouses, not so much the wandering type.  Maybe the proportion is so high because these members were the ones most desperately searching for answers?  Whatever the reason, yours is a pattern many here would envy, that we wouldn't be automatically obstructed from parenting and sabotaged as though it were World War 3.


Odds are the court would care less about her adult relationships.  These days most if not all states virtually ignore whatever adult relationships the ex-spouses have.  These days virtually everything depends upon the parenting behaviors.  While you can document and note the adult behaviors, be smart and give priority to the behaviors impacting the children.


Yeah, but if you let her stay, how meaningful of a relationship would it be if she had to be monitored that closely?  And that surely couldn't last.  Courts today don't order people to be good, all they do is handle it with laws concerning what not to do.  Same with relationships, you can have firm positive boundaries but you can't make someone be good.  It just doesn't work that way.

I realize that I am lucky at this point, compared to many stories here... .she has never (well, not quite true, but mostly) questioned my abilities as a father, other than freak out once a year ago when I was kissing my daughter on the ear, as if I were a molester. She hasn't made any other weird accusations like that since. She knows I was home taking care of the kids anyway when she was out doing her thing.



True. I will make my concerns about this guy to some of her family members, since they see the kids a lot. They can take it or leave it.


Yeah, but if you let her stay, how meaningful of a relationship would it be if she had to be monitored that closely?  And that surely couldn't last.  Courts today don't order people to be good, all they do is handle it with laws concerning what not to do.  Same with relationships, you can have firm positive boundaries but you can't make someone be good.  It just doesn't work that way. [/quote]
You are very right. Thanks for the water in the face. I think I need it. As our therapist said, this is a fundamental difference in value systems. That rarely, if ever, changes, short of Damascus Road conversions. Even then, not so believable. It would be even more of a dysfunctional father/daughter relationship if that were so, and I had all of these conditions (check email chains, go back to our therapist, etc... .). People who know us keep saying she will want to come back at some point. Perhaps so, but from the break-up article I read here, "out of sight is out of mind" to the BPD. Despite the fact that she was still "in love" with her ex two years later, and even pining away for that guy well into our relationship (I felt when it changed and she focused 100% on me), I think she turned off to me over the course of a few months this past year quickly. As she said, she "never" (lie) felt that "emotional connection" even during intimacy (another lie, but true towards the end). Well, since the second baby, an exponential decay. The way I acted wasn't right, but it triggered these events, something I will have to deal with and think about on my own for a long time. With a healthy person, this could have been moved past. But she has said a few times over the past month or so, "why did it have to come to this?" A whole huge, twisted, messed up child tantrum, which again fits the BPD profile.