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I wanted to see when other people experience the dysregulation?

I think the pattern that I am seeing is very soon after times of happiness.

I don't think it is just those times as there are triggers but I am noticing that when my fiance (long distance r/s) is in a very good mood, the acting up comes

within the next couple of days.

She was in such good form  yesterday, telling me how much she loved me and wanted us always to be happy, making me laugh etc.

You know the routine.

And of course, I was feeling great about her and our relationship as she says she is really going to change her ways.

But I was also feeling on edge because I knew it would only be matter of time before the dysregualtion returned.

And bingo, this morning it has already started. 

Constant questions about what I did last night (same thing as I do every night),

why I was at work earlier this morning (I wasn't). 

What I will be doing in work since I am in so early (working of course).

And now is going nuts over the possibilty that I might be going out tomorrow night to meet friends.

She has just said that she honestly does not want me going out because I might do soemthing stupid. 

The last time I was out was 2 months ago.

I never go out and when I do, I never do anything stupid. 

I said I am not fussed about going out to drink tomorrow night but will decide tomorrow.

Her response, since I am not fussed, she will message my friends and tell them that I do not want to go and hope they are fine with that.

I told her that doing that will only display how totally bossy and controlling she is.  She did not agree.

So, I informed her that if she did such a thing, I woudl be ending it with her.  She backed down.

I do not think this is the end of this discussion.

So, do others see this sweet to crazy pattern also?

Yes.

I'm posting for the most part in the Leaving/detaching forum as I have come to realise that any time I get close to my guy, it serves as a trigger for him to run as quickly as possible. It is one of the more prominent triggers for him - getting close to me. The most amazing times we've shared are without fail followed by silent treatment. Psychologically hard to fathom or deal with.

A very sad reality, but one that I can not change. I've tried, I have been as patient and understanding as I can but always the same outcome.

I wish you well in dealing with this discovery of a pattern and hope that it enlightens you even though initially it may make you more sad.

Unfortunately, for me, the answer is "yes".  I feel like I get "fooled" every time... .and I've been dealing with this for 30+ years. 

I let my guard down because things are going so well.  I start believing that I can actually be myself around him and not have to formulate my questions and comments in such a way as to not upset him.

But, before I know it, BLAM, back to where we started.  It's just part of the disease, I guess.

Yes, they always did. A great evening would be followed by avoidance, no calls or texts, or cheating. Or the infamous "let's start a fight over nothing so I can push you away again"... ugh...

Yes. It does come and go. However, what you also describe on top of mood swings into disregulation is paranoid controlling behavior before marriage. What's it going to be like for you afterward? I didn't even see BPD behavior until 3 mos. after marriage and then only towards other people, not me. However, over time I became a lightening rod for her angry disregulation. While she frequently suspects that I might fool around (i never have) she only objects to my going out under certain conditions ... .like when we are having a fight (which is when I want to leave).

I go out to play golf. Coffee with friends. Walk the dog. Business and social meetings, etc. if she started controlling that I doubt I could or would take it. Great that you set a boundry about messaging friends and she appeared to respect it. After the "knot is tied" will she be as compliant?

Yes. It didn't just happen many times, it was constant.

There's an in-between place where you don't have as far to fall back into the bad times, where much of the walking on eggshells occurs. Icy oily eggshells.

Those good times make it seem like you've made it, but... .

For a lot of us, we tend to go up and up and up, with our feelings and how we handle them, with some down when life throws us something negative. For pwBPD, it's up and down, up and down, up and down. They can't stop it, finding it hard to even admit it except to say it's a reaction to something outside themselves.

That yo-yo push-and-pull affects us deeply. That's where so much of the pain hit me the most. At a certain point, I didn't take it all personally, because it was apparent that we were dealing with different versions of reality. I stayed in too long, and was changed for good and bad because of it, but I didn't go to the extremes of close and far the way that she did. Like a flick of a switch sometimes, and yes, we could have just spent the best moments of our relationship together. Even before I could see the patterns clearly, I could sense the other shoe was going to drop, and it did.

As much as I've tried to understand it, this is where the disorder shows the most. "Come here I hate you, go away I love you". Is it chemical? Survival? It sucks.

Thanks for all the responses guys.  Yesterday was a tough one after my night out, got a barrage of questions about who I was with, who I talked to etc.


I have huge concerns about this Theo. She has said things that have implied to me that her attidude towards marriage is that I will be like a possession to her.  Things have deffo got worse after we got engaged, more demanding.

There's a dynamic in the walking on eggshells book called "recycling." They are deathly affraid of abandonment, so when you say you are leaving they suck you back in with whatever it takes to get you back. Actual examples: " I love you more than life itself. I'm having a breakdown and I'm affraid of what I will do. I'm going to throw myself off the balcony. I will ruin you at work (or) your children will never want to see you again!" note: that last one resulted in an apology the next day with the explanation: I was out of my head with fear you were going to leave or I would not have said something like that. ( But she succeeded... I'm still in the marriage.)

It's tough to separate but if you are going to end up doing that it's got to be easier before marriage and children.

The walking on eggshells term is recycling ( like a vacuume cleaner) not recycling. The iPad sometimes changes words like that. THEO

Yea, I have hadsome of this alright.  I have been presented with opportunities to escape but never fallow through because of guilt and love.  Things are fine at the moment, especially since I bought her some flowers.  Normally after I buy her something, another demand will soon follow.  Be interesting to see if that happens given that I have highlighted to her about her extra demands.

She is due to come stay with me for a months. Nervous about how she handles being out of her comfort zone.  I am 90% sure that if we end up married, life will be very tough for me.  I am even feeling guilty writing this stiff because she is in a good mood at the moment.

I would say 99%. But knowing what I know now about my situation and I did have chances to get out I should have bailed at any one of those chances. You at least know what you are dealing with. I was married 11 years before I had something to name what is going on other than me just being at fault for breathing.  I to struggle with the guilt of wanting to end the relationship and leave when things are good. And find myself almost trying to look for the bad just so I don't have to feel guilty for that feeling. Like it needs to bad all the time for me to justify feeling liek I wan tot leave or the guilt piles on.  But I don't usually have to wait too long. Last night she grabbed me for soemthing and it pinched and I pulled her hand away. Well who cares that it was hurting me (unintetionally I knew but hurt non the less). I was rude to do that and the fact that an apology didn't come before she could say "I'm wating for you to respond." Which if I calculatd was about 5 seconds or so.  Then the fight turns to I never apologize and have to be told. Again if there isn't any time between the allegned incodent and the responce of "You need to apologize" how the heck can I? And if she says I need to I can no longer becasue she brought it up first and no I am only apologizing becasue she said I had to.   

So my advice to you since you have given me a lot is that you do not get married at least not until you can handle how things go. Therapy helps but I found it can only go so far. If there were ways that truley worked in letting pwBPD understand they have this problem and could get help then I think I could even see success and happines for me.

Good luck.

Many thanks for the reponse Cipher.  I know you are going through a very tough time, so I appreciate you having time to offer advice. 
I have often said to myself that I cannot get married to her until she changes her ways and keeps them changed.  But that is easy for me to ask and for her to say she will.  I don't know if it is the same for you or others here but she will admit that there is something in her that makes her the way she is and that she is nto sure she can change it.  I appreciate that she admits it, though I wonder if she just says it to keep me reeled in.   As often she will just say this is how she is and I am another way (i.e. that the problem is also with me for not being able to handle it and that there are others that will be willing to accept it) and hence negating any previous admission that might have a problem.

Have things always been bad for you Cipher?  Were your early years of marriage happy? Or has it always been the same but with more intensity as the years have gone by?

When we were dating things moved pretty fast. There were some signs I missed. Like breaking up about every other week for reasons that didn't seem that rational... .The real sign was 3 weeks before we got married and I wanted to spend a weeknd with my Dad and Grandfather at the cabin. She through a fit. Started ripping up pictures of us and our engangement photos and stuff.

So yes it was always like this. For the next 10 years I didn't know what the heck was going on and thought how can it always be my fault. They I found out about BPD and now I have some help. Not enough some days and possibly too late but help is help.  I am so glad we did not bring kids into this. The fact that she even admits anything to you is a bonus I do not have. You might be right that she is just saying that to keep you reeled in but use that if you can. That is something I do not have nor think I will ever get. Never been able to get her to think it is anythign less than 110% my fault .

God help you. I know my fiance is just trying to keep me around with the half admittance of a problem but at least I do get something.  Though that may change if we get married as I expect her beliefs on how a marriage should be is not what I or most other people would think.  I know that your wife has driven a wedge between you and your family and friends, which I think is absolutely terrible.  My fiance has often said things like how much my famliy hate her and asking me if I would choose her over them.  So, I am fairly sure that she will try to do the same.  If I get any hint of that when she comes to stay with me, then things are not gonna end well.

If you value your family do not do what I did and allow any wedge to be driven. Set boundariers and se the often, and reneforce them. I am fighting from way behind here. She got be to beleive things that I normaly wouldn't have about them and about myslef. Thats is also why I do not have any friends. She got be to beleive that because they had some other commitments that they were not really my friends.  If you can find away to put up the wall of not chooseingbetween faimly and  her and that even suggesting that is off limits as they are 2 different types of needs. A close relationshipf with a significant other and a close relatiosnhip with family are booth essential and compeletly separate.

The sooner you get to "I've had all I can stand, I can't stands no more!" then the better off you will be my friend.  No amount of spinach can help you change her.  But she will change you.  I've been dealing with this for 20+ years and I can't say it's changed.  She was like this before I married her and she's like this 20 yrs later.  Not much change.  She's more subtle now but the intent is still the same.  Just because she say something masked with a smile doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt.  Take my advice:  go find a healthy Olive Oyl to enjoy your life.  I don't want you to get where I am 20 yrs later and realize what a waste of life and energy.  My friends and family told me not to marry her either.  I ignored them and figured I knew better.

Thanks for the advice Cipher.  I fully intend to make sure that she does not play up and try to drive a wedge between me and my family.  I will be living with my brother and his wife when the fiance comes to stay.  She wanted me to go get a place sorted for just us, I point blank refused because I knew what her game was.  She huffed and puffed about it for a good while but has said she will accept but as soon as someone says something about her we are to move.  That is never going to happen.  I made sure that I was going to be living with my brother because I knew she would have to try and control herself.


My famly also have great concerns about this overcomer.  As I do myself.  So, if I do end up married and things are the same or worse, then I iwll have myself to blame.

Marriage only makes things worse for a Borderline.  The best advice is: RUN.

This is the best advice you will hear. So very true.

Things just not looking too positive for the result of marriage.  I did notice the behavior get worse after getting engaged, which is when the real alarms started to go off.  I hoped all the red flag warnings before that had just been insecurity over not being engaged.  But  part of me knew that was not the case.

So just let the situation I am finding myself in at the moment be a lesson of what you might be in for.  If she starts to control some things and gets comfortable with it you might as well cash it in. Its no way to live. I hate my life and mostly how I let it come to this. I can still do something about it but it is so much harder when you wait until you are married.

popeye,

I would echo Cipher and be very cautious about marriage. I was "head over heels" and was talking marriage within a few weeks of meeting my exfiance. There were some red flags, arguments, situations, and inappropriate reactions that just didn't make any sense coming from someone who otherwise was showering me with romance and affection. I was a 30 y/o bachelor so I chalked it up to me needing a little bit of polishing and learning listening and relationship skills, etc. Really I'm probably one of the better listeners and compassionate guys out there. Possibly one of the worst things I heard was "It's really pissing me off how everyone says you're so nice and we look so happy together. It takes more than nice to make a marriage." I mean, what do you want people to say, that we're awful and look miserable? Sure, it takes more than "nice" to make a marriage. But who wants it to be a war? I believe a lot of the unhealthy behavior was learned from her parents. That comment wasn't too long after we postponed the wedding and she wanted me to stop going to church with her. The fall from the pedestal was sudden and destructive. It's been almost three years and I've spent most of that time in a major depression. I'm lucky I didn't lose my job or worse. Diabetes is very hard to manage when emotions are so out of control and negative.

At first I really did like how she wanted to spend time with me and all of the affection. But she did suck the life out of my social life. We spent 4-5 days/nights together until she postponed the wedding. I trace the end back to just after our wedding shower when she went out with one of her co-workers. She didn't even like for me to go to my Bible study group, though she claimed to be Christian.

If I knew she suffered from BPD I could have practiced the techniques here on the Board. Have you tried those? Otherwise my best hope was probably to push for counseling and improving the relationship. I asked her several times if she thought we needed counseling and she always said we talked about everything. Even just a few weeks before our wedding shower. I really should have pushed for counseling. It may have ended the relationship sooner with less heartache or maybe it would have grown stronger. Though I ate up the sex like candy in the beginning, once the relationship deteriorated it just wasn't worth it. Relationships shouldn't be a constant stream of extreme high's and extreme low's.

So I guess you have to ask yourself what you really want in a r/s. Are you willing to risk living with those behaviors for the rest of your life? It's never too late to seize the day and change your future.

Thanks for the advice Cipher and Finding.  I know that I will be in for a miserable existence if I end up married to her. The red flags have been there since days into the relationship and have barely had a week off without them. I have had so many opportunities to walk but have never stuck to my guns.  On top of loving her for her sweetness, I feel like I will be letting a lost, little girl back into the big bad world.  It is the weekend now and actually wondering what I am in for, as things tend to get worse on weekends.

Now that I think about it, I think I experienced the same.  I was just about at the point of being able to set my watch by the cycle.  We are separated now. I am looking forward to 4 things before the year is over.  A drama free Halloween (last year --- me kicked out for a few days). A drama free Thanksgiving (last year --- I think we made it through OK there due to no alcohol, but I would like a glass of wine with my meal).  A drama free Christmas (last year we got married on 12/12/12. Two weeks later I was kicked out.  The Christmas tree was trashed not once, but twice). A drama free New Years's Eve (Lordy, Lordy. What a night. She packed and left the room at a very large hotel calling family and friends to pick her up because I wouldn't have sex with her at 4:00 AM in the morning.  I was kicked out again on our return from this trip.)

ABB

How long were you guys together before you got married?

I see you mentioned alcohol. i am guessing it was during times of drinking that a lot of problems came up?

I have found that to be a big issue, as things get worse The issue with her is that she will get drunk; fliirt with any guy we might bump into; overact; try to be the centre of attention and dramatise everything

Come the end of the night and when other people stop giving her attention, the focus goes on me.  If I am in the middle of a conversation with anyone I am considered to be ignoring her. If she cannot get me out of the conversation, either she gets physical or puts on a helpless drunk act falling all over the place. By the time we are home hey presto it is like she never had a drink.

The issue with me and alcohol is if I have any.  Especially if she is not with me because I am not allowed to enjoy myself without her and cannot be trusted or look after myself.  I have met friends of hers that are no longer friends of hers because I enjoyed their company and I am talking about other couples here.  I got on too well with her friends' boyfriends and therefore deemed to be ignoring her.

Apologies for the rant.

Not a rant. No apologies necessary.

As to your questions.  We were together about six months before we got married. There were warning signs. Many warning signs. I am considered to be a smart guy by most. I chose to ignore the warning signs and got married. What a mistake!  Did I mention what a MISTAKE!

Alcohol played a part in the insanity.  Actually it just made the insanity more insane.  Kind of like insanity on steroids.  The last 3 months (we were together about 17 months) she was drink free. There still was insanity. Physical abuse (slapping, scratching, hitting). The police were called twice.  She had 3 minor children (my step children). They pleaded with me to stay, but I could not for fear of my life.  The therapist we saw as a couple told me in a private session that the physical violence would escalate.  My finances have suffered with this woman. My health has suffered.  My mojo has suffered. My life has suffered. A separation of a few days has helped my sanity. I expect to get better each passing day.

I implore you to evaluate your situation. Ask yourself what this woman does for you if anything at all.  My guess is nothing.  Keep asking for help on here. There are many helpful people here.

My prayers are with you.

ABB

Thanks for the advice and kind words ABB.  I am just wondering what made you want to marry your then girlfriend? Did you hope the  warning signs would clear up if you did tie the knot?

My fiance has great moments of sweetness, kindness and love towards me.  She has bought me gifts, tells me constantly that she loves me and declares her love all over Facebook.

If i am honest with myself, it feels like the declarations of love and posts on Facebook are only to get the same in return. If she says she loves me I HAVE TO SAY  it back and in at least the SAME way she does (e.g very or so much).  If she posts on FB i HAVE to reply.  When you say it to each other 20 - 30 times a day, it feels empty to me.

I have this thought in my head about what marriage means to her. At the the moment she is hugely demanding but I can put my foot down about some things. I believe that in her head it means that whatever she demands and wants (including all my attention no matter what), it 100% has to be met.  In other words, if you love me, you will meet all my needs and desires whether you are sick, poor, working, not working etc and that it means that what is mine is hers. Absolutely nothing should be private from each other (ie we know each others passwords etc for everything). And that anything social will involve both of us. So absolutely NO nights out with friends unless both together.  I might be wrong, but that is what I believe her thoughts on marriage are.

I have seen people talk about how sexual intimacy changes after marriage too.  It is a strange concept for me because at the moment my fiance is extremely sexual and seems to put a lot of emphasis on how much we love each other if making love (not sex mind you) as often as possible.

Is this true?

As to why we got married. We are both Christian and in turn, there was at least some guilt while having premarital sex. However, I would not say that is the main reason.  We would fight on an ongoing and continual basis about us getting married. That being my estranged wife kept pushing for it.  You get worn down through their manipulation.  At some point she said the thing we fought most about was getting married. In my brain, I am thing. Yeah, she is right. Of course I am thinking too that the $64,000 question is what we will we fight about after we are married.  I knew better. There were so, so many warning signs.  Friends warned me.

Regarding sex.  It was fantastic with this woman!  However, here is the rub. After you get devalued and devalued and devalued, you start pulling back and you start losing interest. To the point you really do not want to make love at all.  I found it amusing she would go into one of her rages and then be it 5 minutes or 10 minutes or 30 minutes later she would want to have porn star sex. And I am feeling emotionally beatup and trying to recover and would say no. She couldn't connect the dots in the respect that her behavior on the one hand over here would produce behavior on my part over there.  She was in a vacuum thinking whatever she did had no impact on her surroundings.

I moved out 2 weeks ago. I have slept great the last two nights.  My stress levels are dropping.  I completed my paperwork for my taxes.  My headaches are diminishing.  I am reconnecting with. My estranged wife is not texting me. She isn't calling me. She isn't e-mailing me. I have no desire to to the same.

My words of wisdom for you are if you have even the slightest bit of doubt about getting married, don't. And reading your e-mail messages, it appears you have many doubts.

I am paying a heavy price for the few weeks of feeling wonderful in this relationship.  Lesson learned on my part.

My prayers are with you.

ABB

Thanks ABB.

You are right about the devaluation playing havoc on the libido.  Also having it forced on you and to  be given abuse when not ready, does not help.

I bet you are looking forward to being single again?  I know I loved my freedom before starting the relationship with my fiance.  I miss it

The topic of the warning signs before marriage got me thinking about my situation. Wre there signs... .heck yeah. About 10 to 15 break ups a month. Pressure to pop the question sooner than I wanted. Example of this. When we started dating it was in January. By March we went on spring break aloen together. She some how convinced me to buy an engagement ring... "for the future". Then by May we were engaged.  Other signs were she had a security blanket while in college... .still has it. I touched it and moved it 1 time. She lit in to me like I broke a priceless vase.  Other signs were manupulating me to push friends and family away... .until I had zero. A rage that she ended up ripping up engagement phots 3 weeks before we got married because I wanted a weekend up at the cabin with my dad and grandfather. Then after we got married the coupe degrase... .flippin out at the Arm and gettign me out od basic training... .finally getting y family away from me, and cutting out sex for months at a time because she was no longer connected to me. 

I go back to the first warning sign and that being the security blanket... .that to me should have been the sign that said "This person is not well, get away, go back to were you came from and leave this one alone".     

I suppose the security blanker is probably not something you would want to see when meeting your prospective wife.  Funny that you say you were engaged by May, I know that my fiance was very annoyed when I did not purpose to her in May, following us starting our relationship in January.  Led her to start a fling with some guy, which she still denies.  I know it happened though.

The pushing family and friends away is a big one alright.  She has hinted to it with her actions and things she has said a few times.  But I am never going to let that happen.  If it does come up, if we have not already broken up, that will be the end, for sure.

Hearing about the sex things is a complete turn around.  As it is the opposite at the moment...