BPDFamily.com

I´d like to know something - and I coming from a woman´s point of view here. I was tyring to tell my uBPDh that I don´t feel alright some days about our sex life... .About why sex for me is laking an intimate factor - and he go this really wild puzzled look on his face and told me he had no clue to what i was talking about. As far as I understand a person with BPD has difficulty with interpersonal relationships. As a woman, sex is always more than just a physical act, there is an intimate factor here that makes all the difference. Now, for a man, I know it is more about visual/physical and the intimacy isn´t really that important. Now, for a male with BPD, can there be no intimacy what so ever? I know I´m being vague here, but I really just don´t know how other way to put it. Can I just expect no intimacy whatsoever and just take life for what it is? Or as a woman am I asking too much - even for a normal man? So, to all you men out there, exactly how much intimacy is involved - or is sex just no intimate non or BPD? I hope this thread doesnt´get interpreted the wrong way... .

I think you have a lot of misconceptions about men in general. Men enjoy intimacy sexually through physical connection. It's still intimacy for us. Now a lack of emotional connection you may feel has more to do with the disconnection out of the bedroom.

Out of my 5 closest male friends, maybe 1 of them feels the way you described, and the other 4 and myself take intimacy to be quite important. My uBPD gf can have very impersonal sex. Sometimes I'll have been fairly vocal during it, and after she'll say "why didn't you make any noise or say anything?". I'll tell her, "I said hit and hit right in your ear!", and she'll say "I never heard/noticed that", even though I said it very loudly and clearly. If I have any complaint, it's that our sex is not intimate enough. Sometimes I will try to kiss and say romantic things during it and she'll pull back or not respond. She also calls me sometimes and says "I want your dick" or things of that nature. If there wasn't a separate intimate part of our relationship (talking, kissing, taking care of each other, back massages, etc), the sex alone would make me feel very disconnected from her and probably leave

My uBPDh is the same way... .been complaining and asking for more of a connection since 6 months into the marriage. .32 years later no affection what so ever. I can't get him to kiss me during sex or any other time... he refuses to hug me back when I hug him and when we do have sex it's only for himself... not sure why he even involves me as it's on average 5min tops.

If I could go back in time I'd tell my 17 year old self to run when when I had the gut feeling getting married was a mistake

I'd agree with Justadude and dotSlash that most men like to have intimacy as part of sex. I know I do.

My guess is that this need is more or less normal and would be equal in men and women, and what you're experiencing with your BPD is not the norm. Whether it's part of the BPD or not I don't know, because other things could have caused him to avoid intimacy. But anyway, if you need it and he doesn't know what you're talking about, there's a serious problem.

Another possible aspect of the issue is whether you and he -- or any of us here -- are talking about the same thing when we talk about 'intimacy'.

For instance, when you tell him your sex "is laking an intimate factor", what do you mean? If it didn't lack this intimate factor, what would be different?

It might be that he does like intimacy, but expresses it differently than you do, and needs to be told what it is that's missing for you, which might be something that he doesn't think of as intimacy.

Of course, telling him will likely be tricky; he's likely to be super-sensitive to criticism of any kind. So you'd have to somehow get the information to him without it seeming like a criticism. It would have to be couched in a positive way. Does he ever do sort of almost intimacy (in your terms?) Even 10% of the way there? Maybe you could gradually train him with positive reinforcements.  :)

PP

I'd agree with PrettyPlease, Justadude and dotSlash that most men like to have intimacy as part of sex. I know I do.

My stbx uBPDw would always say, "lets have sex" or "do you want to have sex". It was always about having sex, not making love.  She lacked intimacy, avoided kissing and ALWAYS had her eyes closed so I could have been anybody. Given what I was seeing and what she told me of her past (she called herself a sexual predator, always chasing sex) I often suggested she mistook sex for love, hence having made so many "mistakes" in her life when looking for love.

I think what you describe about men is the attitude we have when it's just sex and we have no intention of entering into a full relationship with the woman.  Being married or in a committed relationship though is different, and men yearn for intimacy as much as women do. 

When I read posts like this I feel confused about BPD.  My bf is full on with me, he says it's all about the intimacy.  We have been together nearly 2 years. He says he feels bad because he can't stop touching me.  I honestly do wonder if he is a sex addict as well.  He also he needs the fairy tale love story.  I just don't want to be graphic, but I've never had a man want me so much.  It seems to be all about me, is that normal with BPD?

I've got no-one to share this with, most people do not understand the extremes of the highs and lows i am going though.

I feel like I'm living the opposite to you.  My bf is full on, with love, kissing, touching, adoring words etc... .but I have to play the same game as him... .I need to be adoring him as well. Praising him all the time.

I can never, ever, not be in the mood, no excuses! He loves touching my hand, my body, my face, or kissing me.  He has said how hard it is when we go out somewhere with other people because he knows he looks odd how he can't stop touching me, but he says it's because he loves me and has never felt this way before. 

So, I guess I have the opposite problem. 

Redrose15

My husband was the same way before we got married.

2 months in to the marriage I asked why he hardly kissed me any more?

His reply was "it's too much like work... we're married... I don't have to do any of that any more"

I on the other hand had to keep things up on my end ... always reassuring him... complementing him. We still had sex 4 times a day or more... but it had changed. He wasn't so interested in how he could please me... just what I could do for him.

33 years later. ... the only thing close to intimacy I get is when he sometimes puts his hand on my hip when he's sleeping.

Hi RedRose,

I also have the same problem as you. My dBPDh is incredibly tactile and constantly wants sex. At first this was exciting and flattering but 7 years in to our relationship (and 2 small children) it is actually a part of the wider BPD behaviour he has.

It's hard to explain but my BPDh uses sex and physical contact with me to soothe himself. He has described himself as a sex addict and a 'highly sexual' person. It's taken 7 years to see a patter but when he is displaying highly disregulated behaviour in other areas of our life this is a time when he wants more and more and more sex... .he is constantly touching and cuddling me not because this is a nice thing to do for me or to show his affection... .it is because it makes him feel better and confirms in his head that I still love and care about him... .that I am not abandoning him.

The problem is that all of this leaves me feeling in a way used. His constant touching and wanting sex and the constant demand that I reciprocate drains me.

If I described physically the way he behaves I'm sure many women would compliment him on his physical care and attention and tell me to appreciate what I have. However I know that all of this show of intimacy towards me is not for my benefit or to make me feel special, it is to make him feel better about himself. He can then say he is a 'great lover' ... .If it was as much about my needs and wants as it is about his then it would be ok for me to say 'I love you but I really need to sleep right now' or 'please don't touch me this way while the children are nearby' but he takes these kinds of statements as though I no longer care about him and no longer feel attracted to him.

I think it's the underlying motives behind touching, sex and the NEED for intimacy rather than the DESIRE for intimacy which make it a BPD type behaviour.

Just wanted to acknowledge that there are all kinds of intimacy / sex related issues with relationships in which BPD plays a part.

Best wishes,

PT x

froggy - that must of been really hard for you, going from being so desired before marriage, to the other end of the spectrum.  I'm not sure if mine will follow that pattern, we are still fairly new still, we're just coming up to our second year anniversary.

PeppermintTea - Wow, the similarities are amazing.  I also feel really drained at times, with all the physical touching and constant attention and mine is also much more clingy when he is feeling disregulated.

Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean when you say "If I described physically the way he behaves I'm sure many women would compliment him on his physical care and attention and tell me to appreciate what I have".  You have to be living it, to understand it. 

I love the times when my boyfriend actually acts a bit like a normal boyfriend.  I find it's better when we go out places, as he tries to act much more normal, and doesn't seem to maul me as much, but as soon as we are alone, ie: in the car, at home, anywhere, he is all over me, without any boundaries. 

If I say no to him, then he acts very rejected, no matter what my reason.  I'm not being graphic, but most even at that time of the month, he is still full-on.  I feel like my body is his possession.

I totally hear you!

My now exBPDh and I lived in different countries when we met, so before we got together, I'd noticed that intimacy was missing, but put it down to the distance and cultural differences, figuring it would happen in time.

It never did.

I have had relationships with guys who I've shared that intimacy and that connection with - it does exist!

In the last few years of my marriage, I always felt I was just a receptacle; I could have been anyone. We still cuddled a lot and I savoured that, but the emptiness of the sex was awful. Like Froggy, he just didn't see why he needed to make me feel special, desirable, attractive, anything. Just that I had to give him sex or he'd go get it elsewhere. When I talked about that intimacy and that connection - I may as well have been speaking Chinese. He just didn't get it.

Or they get in a huff and cut you off completely.

I find it funny that if I say not now or he even thinks I don't feel like it... .he threatens to go find someone else... .but I mention it's been 8 weeks... I'm making it up... .heaven forbid I aak him to pit the book down... I gave up asking a  few months ago... not like I feel like I'm needed in the process any ways.

Guess I'm just too "sensitive" like he's always telling everyone else in the house.

I hear you.

I think it is because a pwBPD has this empty hole where 'self' would normally be (because they seem to have no stable sense of self). That means that they want to try to fill this hole to stop it hurting. So he 'needs you' in his head. A non BPD person would desire you and desire to be with you intimately and this desire could be very strong... .but it isn't the raw NEED that a pwBPD feels.


Not sure I explained that very well.

I am starting to set some boundaries aound intimacy. It's a very hard area to set boundaries in though I'm finding because I don't want to come over as not desiring him anymore or that I don't want to be intimate... .it's a fine line.  My husband has accused me of becoming frigid and needing a sex counsellor. Hmmmm. However we have talked about this and also he is in therapy so together we have reached a compromise of sorts. It's a work in progress.

I feel less like a possession now and more like an equal person.

best of luck

PT

PeppermintTea - You make a lot of sense.  I smiled when you said about him calling you frigid and needing a sex counsellor because it sounded so familiar!  On a few occasions, when it's been totally inappropriate for him to be groping me, and I move his hand away, he says I'm frigid, which makes me laugh, it really does, considering the amount of sex in our relationship.  I swear I have had three lifetimes worth already and we are only in our second year together.

I'd love to hear how you are setting some boundaries.

I feel the same as you ! I can't be interested without intimacy, which has been eroding...

12 years into the marriage we have gone from kissing, hand holding to barely touching. Two yes ago he lost total interest in sex. Then I kept trying to work on that aspect in therapy , to no avail. I don't know what happened but the switch was turned off. He doesn't even seem interested. I've gone from being insulted, to hurt, angry , to total indifference. To feeling totally disconnected. It's just awful. I can't understand what happened.

Now I feel there is such a wide gap I can't imagine crossing that bridge again...

I'm relatively young , and I feel like I lost that " sexy" part of myself through this relationship...

My BPD wife complains about the lack of physical intimacy too. But when I try to touch her she's obviously annoyed. When he have sex she want me to touch her only during selected parts of the act (penetration being one, obviously). Me touching her spontaneously breaks her concentration. I think you can fígure out how this works... .

She's goot tools and stuff which is fine with me, but she's allways been a bit too self-centered, and as I've encouraged her to "let herself go" when it comes to focusing on her own satisfaction she's almost excluded me from the act altogether.

As with everything else in her life, reciprocity is a problem. If there's something she doesn't want 100% herself, she will let the world know she's not happy. Consequently, me telling what I want in bed is basically pointless because she will sigh, complain and ask me if she really will have to "put up with it". And I don't want to do stuff that hurts, I promise... .

I'm having the same issue... .My wife tells me I want sex too much and that I'm too intimate. Whereas when she wants it it's ok. But she is far from intimate always says it's too much work and unnecessary... .She gets what she wants her way then rolls over n goes to sleep... .No cuddles or kisses or anything once she is done. Where I like to cuddle and feel her close to me afterwards. Some days I just feel like a sex toy the whole "get off and get off".

Do BPDs struggle with every aspect of emotion? Or is it just me thinking wrong about the issue?

I'm glad this thread popped up, as this is on my mind today.

First of all, I am a man who is not interested in sex without some kind of emotional connection.  I actually physically can't perform.  I really need that emotional closeness in order to feel aroused.  I am not sure whether that is typical for a man, but I am glad to read there are other men like me on this message board.

My previous girlfriend was probably more NPD than BPD, but she certainly meets both criteria.  And in that relationship I felt completely used sexually.  She had many demands, rarely touched me, and I think my body was basically an object or trophy to her.  I still feel weird about that relationship.  

My current girlfriend - obviously she has in her past had many, many sexual relationships without any kind of emotional intimacy.  She revealed to me this morning that she slept with or made out with almost all of her friends (male and female) in high school and college, including her own step brother.  She claims that was in her past when she was using drugs, but even in the decade she has been sober it's pretty clear that behavior has continued, up until the day she met me.  She told me this morning that she was thinking of going to a rehab camp for sex addicts in the months before she met me, and that meeting me "stopped the wheel from spinning".

this all makes me really uncomfortable, because I can't believe that one person will completely change because they meet another person.  So I am not convinced this behavior or thought process has stopped at all just because she met me.  And now when we go into the bedroom, I will wonder if she truly is dedicated to me, or if all previous exes were the same - she thought that person was the last one until she moved on to someone else.  I fear that she and I don't share the same intimacy - and even though she says she loves me deeply - does she really?

All so confusing.

Before the whole BPD thing was brought up I used to speculate that my wife had asperger's syndrome - mainly because of her apparent dislike for physical intimacy and her need for routines and procedures in inadquate situations - like sex. Sex with her is zero interplay. You have to learn her "thing" - which is quite complex.

Oh man, I feel like re-visiting the "Why do we stay"-thread... .

Another issue is birth control.  She had an abortion about 8 months before we met.  She got pregnant by some guy whom she didn't even know where he lived, and then afterwards wanted to get pregnant artificially, and I think may have slept around for the intent of getting pregnant (She hasn't told me that specifically, but she implied it numerous times, and has also told me that she considered it but didn't do it because she decided it was unethical)

And after I met her, her friend jokingly referred to me as my girlfriend's "future baby daddy".  But even if that was a joke, it definitely says something.  And she still talks about babies all the time, and for 6 months fought left and right against using any kind of birth control.  She didn't want to use pills or any method on her end, and if I reached for a condom she cried, complained, complained she lost sensation, that she had allergic reactions, said that I didn't trust her, etc, etc.  basically the whole emotional manipulation routine.  And I felt used sexually in that she was only wanting to be with me sometimes in hopes of getting pregnant.  I asked her about this, and it brought on a huge rage.  

The more I think about this and her, the more I realize she has very huge issues that have to be overcome in order for me to feel comfortable moving forward

Maxsterling: It sounds like you feel she is manipulating you.  She very well might be, I hightly suspect she is, and you need to look after yourself.  Take as many precausions as you can and stick to your guns about using condoms. 

Froggy

BPD= Fear of abandonment and carve to be in a relationship but they can't handle intimacy.

Sex is never about us or making love. Is a way to CONTROL. Wether they are hyper sexual or not, everything is about them. Either they need validation from us or to give us enough so we don't leave them.

My husband was non sexual and always was my fault because I was a very cold woman! I really don't think so. After 13 years when I talked to the psychiatrist, he told me that he punished me all these years!

Hyper sexuality is a coping way to deal with their emptiness is nothing to do with their partners!

Pearl55

I've been in this relationship for 34 years learned about BPD about 4 years ago been reading as much as I can about it since. I've learned to detatch and not let anything bother me... I expect nothing from him... it's just easier that way. I'm working on setting boundries. Only took 6 months to get him to say please to me for anything... oi!

Fun thing is now there is a new girl at work he's fixated on and as predicted he now has some use for me


[quote author=Pearl55 link=topic=211310.msg12350648#msg12350648

Sex is never about us or making love. Is a way to CONTROL. Wether they are hyper sexual or not, everything is about them. Either they need validation from us or to give us enough so we don't leave them. [/quote]
I wish I got some validation! He doesn't feel the need to validate. ... no one else would want me... .why would I leave?

My wife has gone completely frigid.

It's affecting my on every level - emotional, mental, physical and even chemical.

On the positive side, when we were having sex I caught her sabotaging my birth control. Yep... .poked holes in my condoms like a strange highschool nightmare girl.

So, in a way, better not to have sex at all. When you are having sex with someone you don't trust there can't be any intimacy there. I still benefited from the physical release quite a bit, but compared with how it used to be and how it should be? Pretty pathetic.

I am new here and aside from my introduction post haven't posted anything yet.  I have spent hours on end reading through old posts, getting the lay of the land, and reading through each board to see where I belong. 

This post caught my eye because it has been an ongoing issue in my marriage.  I constantly say we have no connection.  I feel used every time we have sex.  I feel like there's nothing there.  I feel like I could be any woman in the world that he's having sex with -- that he's not doing it because he loves me particularly but because I'm available.  He initiates the same teenage-boy inspired way every single time, does his thing, and in two minutes flat it's over... .leaving me with nothing gained at all but losing so much each and every time we have sex. 

As a result of this and so many other of his behaviors our intimate life sucks.  I just can't make myself WANT to be intimate with him because it leaves me feeling so empty and dirty and used up.  I have explained to him a million times that I need foreplay, that I need a connection outside of the bedroom to want to be intimate with him, that I need something more than, "Wanna do it?" and yet it falls on deaf ears. 

We are currently in a cycle of him raging because I won't be intimate and me digging my heels in the sand and refusing to continue doing something that makes me feel so bad, so used, and so empty.  We can't find a middle ground.  He honestly has zero clue what I'm asking for from him, even though I've written it down and explained it 100 ways to Sunday.  He insists that my wanting a connection is abnormal and asking too much and is what fairy tales are made of, not real life relationships.   

Those of you living like this, how are you dealing with this issue so that everyone is happy, or at least feels comfortable with the situation?  I am just tired of feeling like a prostitute that he uses for his release with absolutely nothing in it for me, and not even money on the table, and he professes not to understand what emotional intimacy is and why it's important.  This is an every week argument for us and it's getting ridiculous. 

I'm not at a point yet where I've decided what to do -- to stay or leave -- and so this is an issue I need to find a resolution to in the meantime. 

Karma_gal:

What happens when you initiate sex? Does he agree to have foreplay or does he get down to his business straight away? My BPD wife has wants full power over in bed and that's kind of the problem. Everything but her rigid "routine" or a forceful quickie "bores" her, and she even tells me so when we're in bed.

hergestridge:

Whether I initiate or he does, it's the same routine:  Grab a boob, touch my genitals, do the deed, all over in two to three minutes.  It's like he has no idea what foreplay is or why it's important.  Ten times out of ten I am taking care of myself, and so sex just seems pointless to me because I literally get nothing out of it. 

Regarding routines and such as you described your wife, I would say that is my husband.  It's like he only knows one way to have sex, and that's it.  I have tried to introduce a bit of adventure, new positions, et cetera, and it's like he has no clue how to act if the sequence of events isn't exactly what he's used to doing.  It's like it throws him off or something and he is lost as to what to do next.  I saw reference in another thread on this board -- I've been reading for days and the post was like two years ago -- that it's like having sex with a teenage boy -- it's clumsy, quick, and not at all fulfilling.  I don't remember this being an issue when were dating.  It seems he was more open to being a satisfying partner sexually then; after we were married, it was like all of a sudden he acted like he didn't know what to do anymore or something. 

I suppose if I were more like your wife -- and I'm only saying this based on your post -- and didn't find sex exciting, was frigid, this wouldn't bother me so much.  But I've really come into my own sexually and I'm at an age where my drive is higher than it's ever been.  I WANT to have sex... .just not with him, because it leaves me feeling so empty that I lose part of myself every time I agree just to end an argument. 

Karma_gal

Think we are married to the same man.

He just doesn't get it... .I tell him what I want and need... .it's like I'm speaking a foreign language.

He'll warm the car up when it's cold.

He can't seem to be bothered. He use to make an effort but like yours it's exactly the same thing and like you fedl like I should at least get some money or something.

I've told him I don't get anything out of it but also get belittled for taking care of my own needs.

I've given up trying... starting to go to bed way after him ... just avoiding having sex because it's gotten so bad. Tired of being left frustrated.

I'm not sure at this point if mine doesn't get it or just refuses to do anything that I ask, quite honestly.  He is terribly passive-aggressive and is constantly "punishing" me for something or other.  Lord knows as much porn as he watches, he should've picked something of use up... .but I still get the bare minimum, "all about him" sex, and I'm sick of it.  Like you, I stay up into the early morning hours, just to avoid him.  That works, but he still makes it a huge issue every week.  I keep trying to appeal to him by saying, "If you would work on meet my intimacy needs, I would be more inclined to have sex."  Of course, he has no interest in doing that, but I'm still the evil one when I won't give in to his needs.  I can't win either way.  I get belittled for taking care of my needs, as well, but he sees no issue with his porn addiction.  The constant double standard.  I give up. 

I've come really close lately to considering having an affair... .but I refuse to compromise my integrity.  I still haven't figured out which board I belong on here, because as much as I would like to stay for now -- to get some financial things taken care of, get through a surgery, and secure my own health insurance because ours is carried through his job right now -- every fiber of my being just wants out of this mess. 

Do you guys have much of a relationship outside of the bedroom, or do you just kind of live in tandem?  We have this weird relationship, where he does his thing, I try to do mine... .but he b!tches and moans any time I try to do something without him.  One of my best friends just found out her husband was cheating on her.  I said earlier tonight that I thought I was going to fly in next weekend to see her and be there for her.  He threw the biggest tantrum ever, saying that he couldn't hold down the fort for "an entire weekend."  Mind you, this is the same man who in the course of the last year has lived somewhere else five months because he throws fits and leaves and refuses to tell me where he is or answer calls.  For me, I think it's the totality of things that has me beat down -- the constant manipulation, subtle control tactics, being financially reckless, and zero intimacy.  Not much there to work with or want to stay for, you know? 

I laughed when you said yours will warm the car up when it's cold.  In my intro post, I posted about how my battery died in my car.  I called my husband and asked him to pick me a new one up on the way home, and he came home with a gallon of windshield washer fluid.  Really?  I asked him why he bought that instead of a battery and he told me "it's best to be prepared for winter."  Um, yeah, you moron, I get that... .but I kind of need a battery so the car will start before I give two hoots about a clean windshield. 

I am seriously glad I found this board because I have wondered often in the last year or so whether I was the crazy one who was just expecting too much.  I can't tell you the number of threads that I could have written over various issues.  It saddens me that so many of us are living in these chaotic, empty marriages.  I get that BPD people think differently than we do, but I guess I just can't make myself believe that they are this clueless to the damage they're doing.  I can't imagine for two seconds what it would be like to act that way. 

Sex to my exBPDGF was so unemotional & purely physical it was unbelievable. When she wanted to have sex she'd say one of two things; "I'm horny, do you want to stick it in"? Or "would you tell me a story"? The 'story' was her favorite. I'd talk dirty to her while she'd used her vibrator & watched porn. The grosser the story the better. The minute she'd climax she'd just want to stop & do something else. It was gross... .Hated foreplay & after play. Of course it wasn't like this at first! At first it was 'porn star sex'! Towards the end she got so control crazy & self centered it was unbelievable. If I wanted to be inside her she'd even want me to get it hard. Ask her to get on top? You'd thing I'd of asked her to run the LA marathon. Yep, how romantic can you get; ":)o you want to stick it in"? And after two strokes it was; "Would you cum now, I'm tired"? I used to tell her it was to bad she didn't just have a button she could push to climax so she didn't have to go through all the hassles. She'd look at me with a straight face & agree. Guess she didn't realize I was kidding... .It got to be easier to just play with myself. Of course, I couldn't let her know. She considered me playing with myself as cheating on her. Oh, I never cheated on her but caught her cheating on me... .I've been with two other women since I left her & oh wow! I'd forgotten how good sex could be! I was lost in the FOG for years!  zzz

Tried to 'edit' my post above & it wouldn't let me... .Should have said; "I'd forgotten how nice it was to make love again". Candles, incense & music, kissing & hugging, laughing & joking. Just lying there talking... .This disease is a bad one. Thank God for this site to remind me of where I don't want to go back to, because from time to time I think about it... .    zzz

Hurbyborderline,

Haha it was really good explanations. She had her vibrator and her HUMAN vibrator. My husband treated me like a prostitute, actually free prostitute. Mechanical sex, always how he wanted, when and where!

During first year of our marriage I wanted to give blow job to him and he refused. How f#€# up is his mind?

Actually, anger and irritation gets in the way of our sex life. My BPD wife is very fixated on technocal aspects of her orgasm (faster! slower! more to the left!) and after a short while she starts to worry that it takes too long and that all of a sudden she's annoyed and in a bad mood. Then she starts too "check" my erection, making it clear that it has to be a little bit harder in order to turn her on (of course it's failing after 25 minutes of "faster! slower!... .". You get the idea.

The most enjoyable sex I've had with her us when we've watched sex movies together. The interaction part seems to be the problem.

Strangely, apart from her rigid sex routine, my wife sometimes claims to be bi-sexual and wants us to try swinging. The bi-sexusl part id something she doesn't want to talk about for months, then it comes up again.

Hurtbyborderline:

Yep, you get it!  That's exactly what I'm trying to convey:  Sex is purely physical on his end and he sees no reason to change things.  If I cave and agree, he gets what he wants, and that's really all he cares about.  I was drinking a cup of coffee when I read your post and when I got to the point about, ":)o you want to stick it in there?" I literally spit my coffee out in shock.  Do these folks have a book with lame initiation lines that they use?  I get, "Wanna do it?  Want me to stick it in there?"  Where in God's name did they ever get the idea that that was sexy? 

I am so glad you got out of the relationship with the BPD in your life and have moved on to healthier partners.  When I read your addendum post about how sex is with "normal" people I felt myself with conflicting emotions:  Sad because I'm missing out on that -- and what you wrote is exactly what I want my sex life to look like -- and angry because I've stayed here for so long tolerating the emptiness.  I want you to know I'm truly happy for you that you have found an awesome relationship and sex life with normals post this craziness... .but I'm so incredibly jealous right now! 

I hope I'm not making excuses, but it seems soo hard to get out of this relationship.  I mentioned before that in rages he leaves, and at times has been gone two or three months in a stretch.  I always let him come back, and I need to figure out why.  I need to figure out why I keep putting up with this instead of going out and finding what it is I'm looking for.  I think one of my biggest fears is I wouldn't know how to act/deal with a normal partner after so many years of this craziness, let alone get to the point where rocking sex enters the picture. 

Pearl: You, too, nailed it when you mentioned feeling like a free prostitute.  That's exactly the feeling I'm left with.  Are you guys divorced now?  How did you live like that without completely shutting down and letting it affect every part of you?  I have so many feelings of worthlessness out of this that I don't know how to deal with them. 

A twisted sexual relationship would be correct in the light of the disorder, SM acts ( domination/submission ), multiple partners, no intimacy, intensity of the pathology ( mistaken for passion ), hurt, pain, no limits on what they would do, revenge, punishment, fridgidity, object orientated, fantasies... .to control, both their own inner turmoil and you.

Oh and forgot sex with other women, just for fun. They do all he work.

This does not sound like its going to end well does it... .CRAZY

A really really interesting thread here. I'm glad someone brought up the subject. I do have to say that I disagree about guys and intimacy. Most guys I know, really need/want intimacy. This includes my BPD to whom I believe intimacy is even more important than sex.

As far as our sex life is concerned... .well, my presence is optional. It's all about him. But for intimacy... .it's lovely. He always holds my hand before he falls to sleep at night. We dance in the kitchen. Kiss on the street. He hugs me, holds me, pats me, regularly buys me gifts, and he has the touch of a god (which kills me sometimes because if he could only only touch me like that during sex). To outsiders, they must think we are the most romantic couple on the planet. For me, I've given up on the idea of actually "making love" ... .but maybe this is love (with out the "making love" portion of the program). I have no clue ... .but this is something I'm willing to work on 

Hi Karma Gal,

I don't have the answer, but that is exactly how my marriage was. My ex simply refused, point blank, to do anything to make me feel desired or wanted. His argument was 'if you give me sex, maybe I'd be romantic'. ('Give me' - not share with me... .Smh). He simply didn't see why he should offer me love or intimacy or make me feel like I wanted to have sex with him, when his need wasn't being met.

It degenerated to the point where he would regularly pick a fight at bedtime, scream that he was going to find someone who did want sex with him, remove his wedding ring and stay out all night.

At the start of my marriage, I had hoped that our emotional connection and intimacy would grow. It never did. I used to be a sexual, sensual woman. A decade of feeling like I could have been anyone has left me feeling as though I switched that part of my life off, and I don't know when or if I will be able to switch it back on. I'm not sure I'd know how to be truly intimate with someone again.

JBT:

I am so sorry that you too had to live through this.  It is the most degrading way of living ever.  I have never felt so down and low about myself, because if my husband didn't want me, who would, right? 

Mine tried the, "You go first" tactic, and it worked for him for a while.  Then I realized that I was always the one holding up my end of the bargain while he "forgot" what his was and I put a stop to it.  I in no way believe that marriage should be tit for tat, but I got to the point where I just couldn't make myself do something I was so uncomfortable with just to fulfill "my wifely duties" as he calls them and make him happy with absolutely zero reciprocation on his part.  I think for us women it's a hard pill to swallow since we thrive when our emotional needs are met.  What these men can't understand is that there's a natural flow to things:  If I, the woman, feel sexy and desired, my sex drive skyrockets, and as an organic result his needs get filled.  Like everything else in life, though, mine wants to skip the hard part that involves him giving something and skip to the part where he gets what he wants.  He does it with sex, respect, and every other area of his life.  He honestly feels entitled and "owed" for simply being him. 

Like you said, I'm not sure I will know how to be truly intimate with someone else, but I'm determined to get to a point where I have the chance :)  I go through spells where I'm afraid that "normal" will scare me, or I will scare them, because I don't remember how to do the normal dance.  The one I'm doing right now is based off the old Twister game, with me ending up tied in knots by the end, and that's my normal right now.  I have been where you are -- with that part of me turned off -- and I still have moments like that.  I am doing much better, though, simply by reading, therapy when I need to reinforce something or learn how to handle something else.   I also have decided to start investing in me this last year, and the difference in me is astonishing.  I got a new haircut, got my nails did, read more, became a much more interesting person.  I put myself out there and started meeting people, including men.  I had my first post-marriage crush this summer with a guy that had a similar hobby to mine.  It was strictly fantasy -- like I didn't profess my love for him and ask him to marry me or anything -- but it showed me that all those feelings and desires were still part of me... .just not with my husband. 

I totally get 1000000 percent how living like this can leave you feeling worthless and broken.  I still do sometimes.  But although he drug you to that low place, don't stay there.  Start doing something kind for yourself every single day -- whether it's a bath, a phone call with a friend, a walk in the neighborhood, a massage, a new pair of shoes, whatever makes you happy.  Go out in the world, smile, and strut your stuff.  I found that by feeling good about myself, people started talking to me everywhere I went.  That boosted my self-esteem.  Now, I know I'm worth way more than this; I just need to figure out how to coexist until I can get all of my ducks in a row to walk out the door.   

Pearl55, That's it! I was a free prostitute! Actually, not free, she'd spend her check in a matter of days & then I':) have to support her for the rest of the month! So I paid her!

Karma_gal, LOL, you don't have to be jealous! Both ladies (actually one now. All good things must come to an end!) are/were just friends with benefits type of relationships. Not at all what I'm looking for. I prefer one partner that I'm truly in love with. BUT, it sure reminded me what good sex was! You know, with a partner that participates! That tries to make you feel good!  :)... .   

I just chuckle as I read through this thread. For the most part all I have to do is change the names & it's my old relationship to a 'T'. Reading reminded me of some things. How she always wanted to have a 3 some. With another woman? Ah, no way! With another guy! In fact, she even had a guy in mind. The same guy that used to sleep with her & her ex! Needless to say there is NO way this was ever going to happen... .zzz

This post is kind of insulting, do men have feeling? Do men have problems with intimacy? Do men not understand their own feelings?

I have a son and daughter and they both have an emotional life. I worry more about my sons emotional life than hers if I'm honest.

We have all here been stripped of our dignity and humanity by this disorder. Men commit rates of suicide far higher than women. Men have an emotional life like yours.

Men with BPD are far more dangerous physically, women with BPD emotionally. Though a bit sweeping, we must come together as brothers and sisters to help each other.

Good Luck everyone

Thanks KG.

Unfortunately, my husband was 'tit for tat' in absolutely everything. Except he got quite a lot of tit, and I got a hunk of worthless BPD tat.  I do try and do stuff for myself. I'm in better shape than ever, and I know I look pretty good right now. I've gone out and made new friends and do socialise. But the notion of dating still scares me and a part of that is that I know dating (assuming he's the right guy) will one day lead to intimacy, and I don't know how that works anymore. I guess I'll get there, when the time is right. But it's not yet.

Changingman - I don't think anyone means this thread to be insulting to men. I know I for one don't judge all men that way. I know they aren't all that way - but my experience is with my disordered male ex. I do think many men are able to split sex from emotions far more easily than women, and the inter-relation between the two isn't as complex as it may be for a woman. In fact, many guys here have described how great the porn-star style sex was in the beginning, and then it was them looking for the emotional connection that never materialised, but they enjoyed the sex anyway.

As you say, we're all here for the same reason. 

I am super busy today but wanted to hop on and comment and apologize to you, Changingman, if you took anything I have said as being insulting, either to yourself or other men.  I want to reiterate what JBT said:  My experience is with ONE person, one man, who seems to have a constellation of issues that may very well be BPD.  Because of my experience with him, and him alone, I am seeking assistance from others who are more objective than I am about my own situation.  In other words, I'm not painting all men with the same brush and assuming every man is this way.  In fact, I think I've said that I can't wait for the day when I can find a man who is the complete opposite, because I am convinced they are out there. 

I am fully cognizant of the fact that my husband has feelings, but unlike your assertion that men with BPD are more dangerous physically, mine is the complete opposite:  He is extremely emotional, very emotionally manipulative, and has never and would never lay a finger on me physically because that he can't hide as well.  He is so in touch with his emotion of anger, actually, that it permeates every aspect of our lives... .through non-physical means:  Gaslighting, lying, projection, passive-aggressiveness, learned (faked) helplessness, et cetera.  I wish he would hit me; that I could deal with.  This soul-sucking emotional manipulation that he employs is what has beat me down and caused me to doubt my own sanity many times; it has left me feeling like a shell of the person I was once because I had no idea what he was doing to me for years.  This has affected every aspect of our lives, including our sex life, hence my post on this thread initially.  If I thought for two minutes that his emotions were real and heartfelt, he would have every ounce of compassion I have in me.  But that's not my reality.  My reality is that he has learned somewhere in his life that women are emotional creatures, and has learned how to play upon and manipulate that to his advantage. 

So again, I apologize if anything I said has insulted or offended you.  Trust me that was never my intent.  As you said, we're all here for the same purpose, and I have learned TONS already just from going through old threads.  I can't believe a resource like this exists, and am so incredibly grateful for it.  Unfortunately, this disorder manifests itself in different ways in different people, and sometimes those subjects aren't sexy (no pun intended) ones to have to discuss with an internet full of strangers.  In fact, I hesitated to post because this is a hugely personal topic, and especially personal to me since it has and continues to affect my opinion of myself, and is a pretty raw subject for me.  I wasn't sure I was going to be able to tolerate the momentary humiliation of putting it all out there in order to get some objective advice.  I'm glad I did, though, because the posters who have commented have been immensely helpful and I needed that. 

So if there was something in particular that I said that has insulted or offended you, by all means, please PM me and I am more than happy to talk to you further.  Sometimes in the midst of my own pain, the words flow from my brain to my keyboard without a lot of thought before I hit "send."  I want to be mindful of others' experiences as I settle in here as I make my way from undecided to choosing a side, and certainly didn't intend to upset or anger anyone. 

Changingman, I don't at all find this thread insulting towards men & I'm a man. I could insert my exBPDGF's name in place of EVERY man's name on EVERY woman's post on this thread. She did the same things & acted the same way. It's not a male/female thing, it's a BPD thing! Read my posts... .Plus I think more female's than male's have posted. My posts were directed at a female & the female's that posted here directed their posts towards male's cuz that's the gender they were with.  just sayin'  Oh & the 'porn star sex' I was referring to still didn't have any emotion. It was 'porn star' insofar as anyplace/anytime/anything... .   zzz

Hi everyone

No insult taken, none intended. Good people are out there, everywhere. Let's not let these demons put us of our path. Let their tears dry by themselves.

Love to everyone who really needs it.

Might start a dating site for non BPDs

Ha

Just the best people, you all know that.

I think as far as emotions go pwBPD are more emotional than most people. ... they just don't know how to process them and feel them more intensity and are easily frigtened and overwhelmed by them.

I don't see my H as emtionless... hw cries much easier than I do but also gets frustrated quickly and is always on the edge of anger.

Reading about this disorder and seeing that they are emotionally stunted... .I see the little boy... .his mother told me he use to hold his breath or bang his head in the floor when he was having a tantrum... .he just never got out if that stage... never learned to cope with his emotions.

I understand he is disordered... .the frustration comes from living with a emotional child who thinks the world revolves around him and can't see how his actions effect not only me but his children.

Frustrating because he can hold it together for strangers.

I started this post long ago because of an argument I had with my uBPDh. We have been married for 17 years and our sex life is the reason I am going to leave him.

He told me that to make love with me was the same as having sex with anyone else - emotionally. He said for men it was just physical and only physical - so why not do something depraved if it makes you physically enticing... .

He said the he could not believe that there was any intimacy what so ever in sex and it would mean the same thing to him to have an affair as to make love with me. And if the woman was prettier, it woud even be better.

He said I was a fairy-tale dreamer and that in reality all men are this way - it´s just physical. He said I was dreaming and that intimacy was a thing that women complain about but never get.

Since he was my first boyfriend, and only one, I have never had any other experience in this area. But I know I´m not asking for too much... .So I had to post this to see if he was just lying (once more), or if that is the truth just for him, or if I am right to feel a lack of intimacy.

I do apologize to all those whom I have offended here. I am sorry. Being offensive was not my objective. I just want to be loved... .and am desperately trying to believe that I deserve to be loved and it does exist, despite what he thinks.  This is why I am leaving him - and a whole bunch of other stuff too.

Hi all!

I've read through the post- I find it very interesting and validating, especially bc I read some statements written by both men and women which stress the same aspects I

would mention when describing my current rs with my unBPD wife.

First of all- I agree with others here as I don't think it is a man/woman difference. I read once of concept of sexual intelligence - just like E.Q. or I.Q. . In my opinion many persons with BPD tend to have a very low sexual intelligence.

When I met my wife almost 9 years ago, our sex was incredible- frequent, intense, mindblowing etc It lasted just a few month (3 or 4). Then it almost stopped- in that time we had sex maybe once a month. After that (another 3 or 4 month later) we had sex every three month and soon we were down to once a year.

Though I still suffer a lot bc of it, I can tell honestly: it's not only the frequency... .Every time we did have sex, I had the feeling it was a fake. I had to tell my wife to slow things down during it, she never wanted foreplay, until 2 years ago when we tried to discuss the possibilities to improve our sex life. But it doesn't work with her - it's full action or nothing with her... .I blamed it on the low frequency, but I'm not sure about it anymore. I'm normally a very sexual man. Making love used to be for me about enjoying very intimate moments together, cuddling, laughing, talking etc Sure, I experienced a quick intercourse sometimes, but it was always an exception. I tried to tell my wife that I not only miss the relief / orgasm bc I can take care of it myself, but that I lack the intimacy with her, I miss her lust, her longing for me.

I think I'm not less a man bc I see an important difference between having sex with just somebody and the woman I love.

We experience a very bad cycle by now, I'm afraid it could lead to the end of our marriage. If I should ever start another rs, intimacy would be one of the things to look for and I mean by it more than frequent sex.

Slonzok

I have been married 10 years.

My uBPD wife and I have zero intimacy.  Even when she is in the idolization phase.  Yes we have sex.  But it is empty sex. 

I have spoken about it to her many times.  Her response"who is the woman in this relationship". 

She is supposed to be my sole mate, my partner for life.  Who else can you be this intimate with.

So yes I get whta you are saying. 

Let me say this is not a man thing.  I do not understand why she is so guarded. 

These things still cause me lots of pain.  I have never dealt well with the lack of intimacy.  And I finally realized I can not live with out it.  She is incapable of giving it to me. 

And this is the crux of a lot of their behaviors, really:  They simply aren't capable of doing "X" like a "normal" person.  For me, it makes it hard to understand -- like really get and make sense of -- because it's so... .not normal.  Empty sex is exactly the right way to describe it.  The worst part is when WE wake up, realize what we're not getting and figure out that we can't live without those things anymore, we've usually got a pretty decent time investment -- at a minimum; often there's financial concerns, kids, et cetera -- and it's hard to just walk away.  You're in good company here, Lonely.  It seems so many of us are struggling with the very same thing, and it's just sad. 

YES! The perfect description!  "Empty Sex"... .

That is exactly how I felt.  But today, I think I need to leave, no matter how painful. She'll take my son from me. I know it and it is breaking my heart

I had some issues in that direction myself.  Though married for 20+ years, I fell in love early this year with a BPD and we wound up being lovers; she is married too but her husband - she said - didn't "do" it for her any longer.

Anyway, it was great at first - we were both filling a void or two that we had struggled with in our married lives.  But after awhile, perhaps two months, the sex took on the quality of being a "transaction."  It was great, don't get me wrong.  But she was always a bit of a carnivore - let's go for it, let's do it... .let's figure out where we're going for lunch.  You can smile if you want - if our genders had been reversed, it would have been almost "normal" - but I wanted to snuggle afterwards and be close and peaceful - she was ready to do something else. 

That was OK - everyone is different - but what made it painful after awhile was that I would never - ever! - hear from her the day afterwards... .almost as if it never happened.  When I confronted her about this behavior, she was pretty matter-of-fact: "I have a busy life, that's not going to change; we're not going to wind up happily ever after.  That's the way it is."  All this delivered with the empathy of a bill-collector.

It was only much later - with the help of people on this board, among others - that I realized that she was/is just wired that way, and the BPD keeps her from being able to have "normal" relationships - as normal as an affair can be, albeit. 

As someone else has posted, even when my BPD lover was in the idolization phase, the sex was all about her - her wants, her comfort.  I went along because it was great, frankly... .but later on I can remember feeling simply empty, or even numb, afterwards.  It wasn't her fault (I realize now); she just wasn't able to BE intimate except physically.   Did that make the mini-abandonments less painful?  Not by one iota.  Do I miss her? (Surf over to First Time Posts and read "Long Journey in Nine Months" to see how it pseudo-ended)?  Sure do.  Would I go back?  A VERY good question!  Probably not... .but ask me tomorrow.

That is a question many of us ask ourselves continuously. With the same answer I might add!

The one in my life was hyper-sexual as well. One fine day out of the blue she said ":)on't even try pulling any making love crap with me. I want to f*** the way I want to and when I want to". I was stunned and just looked at her and stupidly said "what". She didn't repeat herself but I did hear her loud and clear. The transaction was one sided.

That fine day was the beginning of the end of our relationship for me. The statement did not so much as illustrate the lack of sexual intimacy per se but rather the total lack of intimacy in general. I began at that instant to actually LISTEN to the words that came out of her mouth. I realized that I did not much care for the words or the person who said them. I realized... .I don't even like this person. :light:

As much of a horn dog as I am, and as physically attractive as she is... .we never had sex again. I even told her I am not inclined to have intimate relations with someone I don't even like. I moved into the guest room and she got her 30 day notice to vacate pronto. She did as expected and played ALL the jealousy and triangulation games she had in her arsenal to no effect. Those fateful and stupidly unnecessary words from her cut through all the PD crud like a knife. These are the words of a child. I am not a child and I sure am not willing to be an object. That was as they say the final "boundary bust". I was done.

As she was leaving at the 30th day deadline after I packed the moving van myself, her statement was "I think I told you too much". I'm sorry to this day that all I said was "uh huh". Little did I know... .the real fun was just beginning.

Boy, I hear that one.  My BPD SO made increasingly obvious innuendos - or outright statements: "I think we should have sex soon!" - until one day while smooching on the couch she went for it.  It was great at first but became more "transactional" as time went on.  She freely admitted that her husband didn't "do it for her" after all those years; still, I was the emotional and "cuddly" one; had our genders been reversed it would have been stereotypical.   When she broke most (but not all) of the relationship off, she all but blamed me for having started the sexual part.  But that was typical - she never accepted responsibility for much of anything.   Awhile back she was in a good mood when we chatted on the phone (for once; she'd been alternately angry and distant).  I told her that what I really missed was the emotional intimacy we once had.  Her response - "Well, I miss the sex!"  Me too - but if it's just about that, that doesn't work for me. 

We started off being very emotionally intimate, but that changed after the one and only real fight we had.  I think her idolization of me ended that day, and when things finally settled down - four weeks later - it was much different; the sex became more transactional, though not always.  And the emotional intimacy went out the window.

Im glad I read this thread because I can see some things I didn't before. I have had the same experiences with my uBPDexw like rushing into intercourse and skipping past or flying through foreplay and it became transactional. 

DUDE. Stop telling me my life, guys!  lol

I actually tried to start a similar thread on the "staying" board, but nobody bit. I am having a really hard time understanding our sexual past in light of the realization that I am dealing with an uBPDh.

- Sexually the dude is up for ANYTHING and takes pride in making sure I am a satisfied customer. Has trouble performing if he thinks I am not "into" it. Wants it all the dang time. Refrains of "we never have sex" happened so  much that I began keeping track for him. 3-4 times a week is hardly NEVER.

- Has admitted that he feels no emotional connection to me when we are in the sack. I have said many times while in the act, "wake up... .I kinda feel like you are screwing a wall right now"

- After the first few years of marriage, flatly REFUSES to initiate sex. "Tired of being rejected" was the common refrain. Dude, sometimes a gal is just tired! But anytime I put him off, it apparently destroyed his confidence. Though he won't initiate or ever show enthusiasm if I request it, there is emotional hell to pay if I don't request it enough. SO much maipulation and controlling going on there.

- I feel very violated by him in everyday situations. In front of our kids, at church, at school, in public, in the kitchen... .whatever... .my body is NOT mine. It is his. SO if he feels like he wants to come up behind me and bite me HARD, or poke my boob, pinch me, fondle, grope etc - he doesn't give a frog's fat behind who is there or how many times I protest. I am his object. And if I do protest, I am punished and he does that juvenile splitting crap "FINE! I'll never touch you AGAIN!" 

- Also, I realize that sex falls into his "risky behavior" category. Luckily, and I say this with all the love in the world for him, he is not charming or attractive. If he was, he'd have had numerous affairs by now, I've no doubt.

Reading up on one of the curriculum threads about the various types of abuse. Many of his behaviors are apparently sexual abuse. Had no idea. Oh, will I ever know a normal emotional and physical relationship 

This exactly... .well only difference being my dBPDh doesn't bite.

My husband has started therapy and I see some improvements. However this area of our relationship is a real issue. I don't 'meet his needs'... .yet he can't accept that I even have needs of my own eg for sleep, time by myself, emotional support etc.

I hope we will be able to work on this. I usually post on the staying board.

PT

I am not familiar with the acronyms yet, but my fiance (BPD) had a meltdown tonight because I didn't want to have sex. See, he just says stuff like "Lets have sex" and such too. Or "can I have a HJ/Bj?" And it just turns me off. Then he goes ballistic. I told him he just needs to seduce me more often and maybe our sex life would be more active and pleasant. But, it is always the same. Lack of intimacy, excessive "let's do it." Ugh.

the first couple of times I had sex with my BPDboyfriend it felt like he was performing an act and it was obviously very important for him that I would be "impressed", I knew immediately he wasn't really interacting to my needs, but then again, it was kind of cute and I thought it came out of nervousness towards me.

since then I experienced different faces of the lover he can be, actually I must say he can be really mindblowing and caring, and sometimes even emotional (when he's drunk) but it's never (nor will it be ever) really fulfilling for me because he can't capture the level of intimacy that I long for in a steady , longlasting relationship, and I can tell it is one of the reasons why I stopped our relationship.

but still I do miss him, and I miss the sex, and most of all I miss him lying next to me, ironically , he's a super sexy and attractive man, and everytime I meet him, I struggle with myself because I'd love to touch him... .

As a man I love to be able to seduce sometimes. But the only thing that works with my BPDw is "let's ___". And that only works if she's in the mood (a few select days per month).

She holds fantasies about romantic weekends, erotic massage etc, but when push comes to shove she finds gentle touching or caressing to be mostly irritating or frustrating. Bed is one of those places where it becomes apparent she's not wired like normal people.

Good discussion of a not so simple topic. For those who have not seen it here is a link to a related workshop:

SELF-AWARE: When is good sex a bad thing? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0)