BPDFamily.com

How do you bring up the topic of leaving and still be heard?

Been Been married almost 33 years... .things aren't too bad right now but have made the decision to leave the next big blow up.

He was warned about this after last big blow up a couple years ago.

I've told him that I feel like a dog that gets kicked every time you walk by... or ignored and tied out in the yard... warned him that like the dog all it would take is someone being nice to them and it would be gone.

no telling if he remembers any of these conversations. Never had a real conversation that didn't end up in a fight... .and I'm so done fighting.

Feel guilty thinking about leaving when things are relatively even right now... but I know a big blow up is just around the the corner. .even the kids feel it.

A hard place, I feel with you. 

Difficult to say, Froggy, I was thinking about leaving a lot and than it came another raging situation where I told him to move out... .

How about information about separation/divorce, all the legal stuff? For me it was a huge step before to go to a Helpdesk about divorce to get facts about my situation.

Did he ever get physical?

Froggy, sorry to hear you're at this point.

I struggled for a long time with the decision to leave my wife. She's uBPD/NPD, and has cheated on me on 3 separate occasions that I know about. And even then, it was a difficult decision. She has all the raging traits that you describe.

In the end , I made the decision to leave, to force the issue, because eveytime I tried to discuss it peacefully, she would rage, blame me for all of our problems, including her cheating. In reality, the problems were predominantly hers. It sounds like you're in the same place.

I planned my exit very carefully. In the end, it left her with no avenue to recycle me back in like she had done so many times before.

For what it's worth. I have no regrets. I won't pretend it has been easy. And I'm only in the early phases of divorce.

But trust your instincts. It sounds to me like you've exhausted all other avenues.

Good luck.

From what I understand of BPD, you will 'be heard'. Deep abandonment fears will be triggered, then dysregulation, then panic and acting out, arguments, possibly aggression. The emotion will be so extreme that what happens right after may be forgotten the next day.

You didn't mean this, I think. Rather, you meant a calm understanding of the logic of the situation, remembered by both of you and incorporated into the mutual model of your relationship.

But I don't think the latter is something you'll get with BPD people, in most cases.

Most successful 'leaving' discussed on this site seems to involve private planning and unilateral action, by the non, once the decision to leave has been taken.

Whereas using 'leaving' as a bargaining tool -- in the sense of letting the BPD know the future consequences and hoping that will change them -- doesn't seem to work very often.

Maybe it does sometimes? I don't know. I do know that in my relationships with uBPD people, I had the first experience: bad reactions when I talked about leaving, no changes in the behaviour, and finally I made my own plans.

PP

Have an exit plan ready to implement - just in case it gets ugly.  Money, clothes, accommodation, spare car keys, etc. all packed, stored elsewhere and ready to be used for when you drop the 'L' bomb.  Good luck.

froggy,

Aussie is 100% correct. Have you an exit plan?

If/when you do leave, what are you hoping to accomplish by it? Send a message that his blow-ups will not be tolerated in the hopes he will seek treatment? Separation? Divorce?

These are all big questions that you need to answer for yourself.

You have been married 33 years, so you are well aware that time is precious. It was in my 9th year of marriage that I realized I didn't want to be married to my ex anymore. It was the 18th year when I learned about BPD. The 20th year was when the first mention of divorce was uttered (by her). Three more years went by full of mind-numbing recycles and other assorted craziness before I filed for divorce, and that was almost three years ago.

My biggest regret was that I wasted so much time where you are right now - undecided. Whichever was you ultimately choose, I wish you happiness!

this is a tough one, married 33 years, i am sure that makes it even harder.

One thing you can do, is if you want to leave, do that leave! and if you want to be separated do that... .I think the only times we can get "reeled" back in, is if WE allow it. This comes with firm boundaries and sometimes enough is enough.

I know of many times, not holding my boundaries and saying i'd leave, then the next day my uBPD would just forget everything and act like nothing happened, he has HUGE abandonment issues.

So I truly believe if you want ot leave you can, and just let. Seems like 9 years into the relationship, you had your second guesses, then

18 years; learned of her BPD, then 20 years her wanting a divorce... .and yes, this can just keep going in a vicious circle, and being stuck in the same situation.

If you want to leave, just tell her how you feel, and have a backup plan cuz you know she will most likely not let you go or make you change your mind.

No is a powerful word!

I wish you the best... .

Thanx for all the input.

Surnia... he was physical in the he beginning. .still punches walls and throws things... 12 uears ago when he lost his job and I had to go to work full time his frustration switched to our son who was 13 at the time.

They still have issues. .seems they need to compete for my attention or my son thinks he needs to defend me... funny they seem to get along when I'm away

AussieOzborn... exit plan has been started

Walrus... the first time I thought about leaving was 2 years into things... he cheated and brought me home an std... .I was 19... grade 10 education. ... didn't think I could survive on my own and there was no way I was moving back home... so suckes it up and stayed... .next time was 7 years later... 2 babies... 1 and 2 ... living a thousand miles away from family and no where to go  ... .He really didn't handle having kids well... funny he wanted them right after we got married.

Again just before our 20th... 25th... sent him to live with his parents for a month.

The last big blow up was a couple years ago and for the first time I reaaally lost it... said everything I'd always wanted to say... yes it WAS his fault... I be came him... the screaming monster... I was just so angry from holding everything in just so he doesn't escalate... took the kids off guard lol(yes they still live at home. They both have health issues)

I've stayed because I am a firm believer of till death do us part... .sad thing is I wish one of us would die just to get it over with.

I did say last fight I would be gone the next one.

My kids are grow... I've proven to myself that I CAN support myself if I have to... .I even have a place to go... .it's just getting over the moral issue of leaving... especially right now things aren't too bad right now... .but it's coming... .I'm taping the next blow up on my phone.

I'm just so tired of giving emotionally and never getting anything in return.

Worked on the body last year... .the mind this year... working on getting out of the fog.

Whereas using 'leaving' as a bargaining tool -- in the sense of letting the BPD know the future consequences and hoping that will change them -- doesn't seem to work very often.



PP[/quote]
I know he won't change or go for treatment.

He doesn't think he has a problem... .won't go on any meds because he can't drink with them... .refuse to quit drinking. .it's the only thing that gives him pleasure.

I've always told him it's a good thing he didn't have my childhood. ... He'd really be screwed up.

I'm dealing with my own issues for now... learning to stand my own ground with out being confrontational. .but also preparing to leave.

Been reading and learning a lot here :)

This is frightening, isn't it? My ex had to ability to pull the worst of the worst out of me. I look back now and cringe because I was so out of character.

I was like you... til death do us part. My ex was a health fanatic and ten years younger so it looks like it had to be me. So the thought was, am I willing to spend the rest of my life waiting and hoping for death? Maybe hurry it along by eating bacon three times a day?

The FOG can and does distort our thinking much more than what we think it does when we are in it. I use the word "cringe" above. I also cringe when I think of the so-called life I was going to settle with. When and if you get out, you will be shocked at what you allowed yourself to undergo.

  froggy

In my unhappy marriage I started to think also about getting older. Which can be anyway a challenge. And most of the traits people have are getting worse with age.

It was clear for me I don't want getting older with my raging, controlling, not working h.

The other thing is perhaps, to allow yourself to make your life better. Thats easy said and not so easy done. 33 years are a very long marriage, so you did your best in it more than many other people did.

Do you know the books of Brene Brown? This could be a encouraging thing to read.

"The gift of imperfection" or ":)aring greatly"

(https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200082.0)

I prefer the first one, both are good.

Good work!


Yeah me too. Great place to discuss great pain.   :)

PP

|iiii

Nicely said. I remember being in that cringing state, a prisoner of both of our beliefs, and being shocked looking back.

Makes me think of William Blake's "mind-forged manacles".

That term seems so appropriate that I just went and looked it up, and it's from one of his great poems, London (http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/172929). It even seems like he might have been describing some BPD people in it, and that last line, "And blights with plagues the Marriage hearse" could be the BPD-non relationship we all know so well... .OK, I'm stretching things a little there.  :)

But of course pwBPD would have existed in 1790, even if the name didn't, and we all know that it's a subject worth writing about... .  :)   

PP

I did not have a good childhood... pretty sure my father was BPD with a lot of other issues... he was abusive in every way possible... .my mother was very busy with 9 kids and not the most affectonate person.

That set me up for other predators in life.

And for the relationship I'm in now.

I have been working on my childhood issues for the last 25 years to help raise my children with less issues than myself.

I take responsibility for my part in this dysfunctional dance. I just have to decide if I'm going for the life sentence or early parol.

WISHING you the best in your decision.

I know you have been thru alot and this can and will be a major change... .leaving... .take the time to think things well over and keep posting here, you have a huge support system!

Hi froggy, I am another long time married (30 yrs) one to a uBPDh also contemplating the same. I have rehearsed, written, planned to have "THE TALK" with him for quite some time. It seems simplistic enough, but the challenge I foresee, is timing in order to be heard. When the verbal rages are in full bloom, there is no listening going on by him at all, and then when things are calm enough to technically be heard, I am reluctant to bring it up, in anticipation of the triggering another verbal rage. So I can for sure understand the concern. Rationally I know that it doesn't HAVE to FEEL GOOD to have this conversation, nor does it really need to be a full conversation, but I think having lived for so many years ( decades even) without being heard, we long married Non-BPD's are truly just wanting one last time to be validated & heard about WHY we are leaving, rather than an information only statement, that we ARE leaving. In my own logical mind I know it is unrealistic to think that the validation would ease the emotional turmoil that the split will cause us to feel. I know that I need to separate in order to safe guard my own diminishing self respect, for allowing myself to be verbally & emotionally abused for all these years, but a small part of me, hopes that either the threat or the real separation would trigger UBPDh to acknowledge the need to seek treatment, and diligently work in therapy, and come out on the other side, a whole new person! Just typing this makes me see that this is not a logical expectation, and the reality is that whatever improvement that MAY result, will never make him be able to consistently display the caring, loving, emotional support that makes for a balanced marriage.

At present I am just trying to come to grips with the fact that I have done all that I know to do to improve the relationship to an acceptable level, long term, all to little avail, so now I must simply take care of myself, I cannot change him, I cannot force him into DBT counseling, nor can I force him to acknowledge he needs such help. I am dreading the finality of it, but also dread the alternative. What I know for sure,is that I no longer want to suffer like this, emotional & verbal abuse is awful, even though it leaves know visible scars. I will let you know how the initial split goes, and the following months as I am able. If you have some insight into making the transition easier i welcome your thoughts as well. I send you a big hug, as well as my prayers for the courage & tenacity that you & I will surely need to actually go through with it! We can do it!

Nurse

Nice to know I'm not the only one out there thats hung on this long.

Sad when you read of all the pwBPD who just walk out and all you can think of is... .wow... wish that would happen... would make my life so much easier!

I have come to enjoy the silent treatment lol

Always joke if I'd killed him in the early years I'd be paroled by now!

Turned 50 this year... lost 50lbs... stopped letting things bother me years ago.

I expect nothing from him... not help with anything. .not affection... now... not even sex... the only thing I expect is s meltdown or an argument.

The thing that has really changed is ... a longterm friend brought to my attention that maybe it was a bigger problem that I couldn't see that I had worth. .than he not seeing it.

Then started noticing... he is willing to alter his behavior for others... but when asked doesn't think it nessesary to make any changes for me.

He refuses to say please for anything because he thinks it's begging... but will use it with others.

There are no honeymoon phases to draw me back... .just less crappy ones.

I'm just tied and emotionally worn out.

He will not go on meds... can't drink and take them... won't quit drinking... it's the only thing that brings him happiness.

Won't go for therapy. ... he doesn't have a problem.

I'm tired of the double standards and changing rules.

My kids are grown... I don't want to have to emotionally parent a 56 year old man... his mother has early onset dementia and I can see it happening with him... so things will only get worse.

Working on getting myself stronger so the fog will clear... the airport can open and I can take off ... .took along time to get here... might take some time to get out.

Hi NursemyBPD,

I looked through your past posts and note a progression, and this seems to be a pivot point to deciding that you're going to leave, and wanting to know the tools for that. So I'll just remind you that you haven't yet posted on the Leaving board (which to this point is appropriate, since you've been undecided); this might be the right time to start a thread about your plans. There you'll find many people who have already done the break, and information about what tools work and what don't. Personally, I found using that board helped me when I needed to move away from my pwBPD.     

PP

Hi froggy,

I'll make the same comment as I did in the previous post to NursemyBPD, if you've passed that pivot point and know that you're pointed towards (eventually) parting. Even if it takes a long time, it's still a different mindset, and I think people on the Leaving board would be happy to share the best way to work on the fog and get the airport open. You'll need fuel, the pilot has to be awake, and you'll need to know which runway to use, how to use the radio, and what your destination is.   :)

PP

PP

I've been looking through all the boards... been reading a lot.

I have a lifetime of damage to correct.

I'll get there... stay or go... I have a couple good friends to kick me in the butt occasionally. ... I leave and have a life for 2 weeks every 6 months(have since the beginning)... feel i need to leave more often now... I get back and want to leave.

So change is coming. ... one way or another... things are not going to stay the same.

Froggy it was like I wrote your i last reply, it was even humorous as I too used to use that exact term jokingly, that if " I had killed him I would be out of jail by now"  & yes I agree with you, that we have a lifetime of damage to correct .  I heeded the comment of PRETTYPLEASE about posting on the leaving board, & I know that it's been very difficult for me to accept the fact the it is I that must make the Decision  once & for all, the decision to master the techniques & tools learned here & elsewhere while trying to find my own joy & peace aside from my uBpdh OR throw in the towel once & for all. I know it is FOG  that keeps me here, sprinkled with some true love for him, but WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT? I don't want my marriage to end, but I don't want to keep living under these conditions, rationally I know that eventually I must stop the FOG & take care of me, I have the plan & the means to leave, I just hate admitting defeat, I think?

A very difficult decision to make.

In my situation I asked my BPD spouse calmly to cease contacts with her BPD family for 6 months so we could go for marriage healing as I no longer could cope with the campaign against me. The decision was made for me and after a short period of grieving I feel relief that the hostility is now over after 25 years of marriage. Ps: she left me 7 times.

The importance lesson I learned is being a role model for my children. I needed my 4 children to see healthy boundaries in a love relationship. I do not want my children to model on my unhealthy boundaries (putting up with aggression) in their relationship. This I believe was my deciding factor not to continue reconciliation.     

I hope this help help.

Well said Walrus

Yes I too became very distorted and out of character. I saw sides of myself I never knew were there. He even told me I had a PD and I was thinking he might be right. I felt so guilty for how I would react and I became such a live trigger. I thought I truly was losing my mind. Te worst part is he pointed it out and put me down. Never did he show concern for my well being even though he was obviously aware of my mental decline.

I am completely shocked with what I was putting up with and I am angry at myself for settling for someone who treated me like that. That was not at all what I signed up for. But yet there is still that little voice in the back of my mind telling me maybe it was my fault. Maybe I deserved it. More distorted thinking? How to banish the fog... .?

Yes, I went through this too. We expect empathy, a reasonable expectation. But they have a mental disorder and aren't wired to be empathetic. The hole in the centre of their being is too big to worry about anybody else's problems; to them theirs is the emergency, the life-threatening emergency.


More reading, more posting.     I find it very useful to study BPD, read about other people who've had similar experiences. Often they're so similar to mine it's mind-boggling. There really is a pattern.

And part of that pattern is being pushed into the 'blame somebody' game -- they blame us, they blame themselves (but can't talk about it), we blame ourselves, we blame them.

All we get from this is making ourselves dizzy like a dog chasing its own tail.

PP

What helped me was to know how others viewed me. Others saw me much differently than my exBPDw. I was a "good man" to them, yet I was told how bad I was by her. If everybody was telling me I was a bad person, then maybe I deserved what I got. But I know I wasn't a bad person. I treated her better than anybody else in her life ever did. Simply putting two and two together affirmed to me what I already suspected... .I didn't deserve such bad treatment.

As long as you are in the relationship, you will be in the fog to some extent, no matter what you do. It's like they have an awareness of the level of enmeshment we have with them. When you start detaching and pulling away, they can change their tactics. When I moved into the "Leaving" board, I was patient for the right moment, but apparently I had my intentions written all over me. Things got breathtakingly dysfunctional that it makes my head spin thinking about it now, yet I stuck through it for several years more. I should have just walked out right away, but I wasn't ready.

We can all tell you that you HAVE to leave, but unless your mind is there, it is falling on your deaf ears. I remember the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" incident that made my decision, and I never looked back. Maybe that it what you are waiting for.