BPDFamily.com

I have been learning a lot about BPD and NPD lately to try and understand more about why I have been living in hell for the last 8 years. I have really discovered many things that have made me feel sad for my exuBPDbf. I have felt urges to contact him now that I feel I understand him better and I feel this renewed sense of confidence that I can help him. But logically I know that can't happen.

The grief has somewhat subsided and I think I have moved towards acceptance a lot recently. But I still have moments where I miss him and I start to panic about what he is doing and why he isn't calling me telling me he is miserable. But reality sets in and I remember he has a new girlfriend now. My replacement.  :'(

So my thought is do they ever miss us? Like genuinely miss us? Or do they just forget we exist since they aren't with us. I know the disorder makes it seem like we disappear unless they see or hear us. But he told me how he would think about me when he was at work so that confuses me. But maybe it is easier for them to move on since they don't have any attachment when we are not around?

THIS may very well be in the top three of the most bewildering aspects of these personalities. It is truly vexing and a dissonant issue for us the "grievers". Unfortunately it is a well understood and almost universal feature of the symptom constellation. It is termed "object constancy". Basically for me it means out of sight, out of mind... .literally. If she can't see me I simply don't exist as a real flesh and blood feeling person. I become for her more of a cardboard cut out, especially when she is in the arms of a new warm "object". Sorry SuperNova for being so blunt because until I was able to swallow that bitter pill not much moving forward was going on in my life, so I give you a little tough and simple "REAL-ity". But I know what helps. A teaspoon of sugar helps the medicine go down... .So here ya go... .

From my experience I would say yes. As soon we are gone the have at least moments of missing us.

Many of our SO are not emotionless monsters. Sometimes they are so involved in other things that they don't realize it. Or it won't last bc of the sudden mood swings... .

Its okay to have these moments of missing him. 8 years are quite a time. 

Supernova I wish the answered were as easy as the questions. I can understand your pain. You still care. It doesn't just shut off like a light switch. It goes away slowly. It will go away. The less contact you have the easier it will get. Only your ex can answer that question. Honesty might not be possible for two reasons. Trust and truth. Would you be able to believe anything that is said? Have you been deceived? Do you feel betrayed? Some things cannot be repaired after they have been broken.

Best thing you can do is don't care if "they" miss "us". The actions tell the whole story. Believe nothing else. Be strong. Love yourself.

So true.

Perhaps, although that does not negate that many of them are.

I've struggled with this one alot myself, especially with the knowledge that I was replaced at the end, before I was gone.

I think back to experiences with my ex, and people in her life.  Did yours ever talk about people from the past?  In a positive way?

I know my ex had memories, and it was painful for her to lose people.  Some of those she had painted white, others black.  It flittered back and forth with her mood.

The most telling thing was her last attempt to get me back in an email, which I think describes the nature of her emotional capacity.

She said she was so angry when we broke up (she "dumped me" days before when I found out about an online affair and called her on it).  But when she was left to sit alone with her thoughts, she couldn't lie to herself.

She didn't elaborate, but went on to express sadness that she had done things and that I was gone. (A behavior I taught her that had brought me back in the past).

So I know, yes, based on the knowledge I have of my ex, she does, deep down have memory of me, but she is covering it up along with her shame with alcohol, drugs, and other people.

I'm sorry I don't know your situation better.  But somewhere, deep in there, lies the truth.  Covered in layer upon layer of guilt, shame, and feelings of worthlessness.  Does your ex have the capacity to get to that? 

Likely, as IMF constantly reminds us, transiently, from pt A to pt B, but to dwell in that place for a person, and keep in mind your ex is a person, would simply shatter them.

I'm sorry for your pain.  It doesn't make it any easier. 

The more I've accepted that she just doesnt' respond the way I do, or many others would expect her to, the easier it is for me to let her go.

My heart goes out to you.   

I really feel for you, because I know I have been there and have my moments when I still wonder. I think most of us here can say that, in fact it seems this is a common question.

I spent a lot of time really upset because I thought she really just woke up one day and forgot about me. She only ever gave two very brief reasons why she left, both were total B.S but one was that she just woke up one morning, didn't feel attracted to me and that was it.

Anyway though so I spent many months suffering and wondering. Since we have a daughter, I realized though that what I wasn't hearing from her really wasn't the only way to tell for me. Her actions always did, and continue to speak louder than words. So her actions do show me at times that she misses me. How much contact she is willing to have (co parenting contact) or initiates (same) or how she interacts with me, if she is asking for things she would ask her husband to do. In fact she sent me an email about 6 months ago in the midst of her acting very nice, that she was really angry the "I feel really sad and angry that just because I have to divorce you I have to give up you building me things like the garden, cool cutting boards, fixing things... .etc." 

That very next week she asked for something, and she did this a lot for a while. Until I told her that I wasn't able to keep doing things like that if she was going to treat me badly. If she wanted to be friends that was one thing, but if she didn't even want that I couldn't help her anymore. She still tries once in a while, and it is the genuine woman I knew... .that consistent woman I knew the minority of the time. The most real of her I know. So I know she misses me. Even if she has never directly said it.

I think a lot of them probably do, they are people with emotions. 3 year olds can miss something even if they throw it in the trash... .

I think BPD would love to love if they could. It's just so terrifying for them. That closeness.

I bet deep deep down somewhere he does love and care about you. But he can not show, or tell you or take in love from you.

I think that will be with anyone, unless you heal that.


My therapist put it this way for people with attachment stuff (myself included ) " It's never going to be enough for you ever because you have a hole in you're heart, all you can do is recognize it's there "


You know what I mean? I really think sometimes that is all we can do. Be aware and act accordingly.

They don't miss us - not really - imo.  They can't truly connect/attach to us to miss us.  They miss what we can do for them.  Whether it's comforting them, being around to distract them or make them feel needed/wanted, being around to ward of their loneliness and give them someone to mirror so they don't feel like they don't exist, to provide for them financially, fix things, run errands, you name it.

It is a need they have.  They reach out only when they have a need that they look to us to fill.  If they don't feel this need towards us, then they are not missing us at all.

Again, my opinion.

I'm sure if they come back for a recycle after a period of NC, it means that they started "missing" us in some sense. But, as Lady31 says, is that just because they have a selfish emotional "need" and we come to mind as someone who can fill it? I think very possibly.

My guy reported missing me intensely during previous breaks, came back for the recycle, only to not be able to follow-through, freak out, and end it yet again and again. So much for what his "missing" meant... .

Supernova... I'm not sure at all one way or another. There is no way to be sure - even in healthy relationships there's no way to ever really know for sure what the other person is thinking.

But... it is helping me at times to think he does. There's no reason why they can't miss us... most especially in moments of clarity or quiet alone times.

It's nice to allow myself to feel missed whilst staying no contact and putting one step in front of the other n moving forward.

I had the same experiences. Over n over.

Well, let's look back to "normal" relationships. In cases where my partners left, there were obviously some reasons for leaving that were greater then reasons for staying. For sure, even "normal" people do not miss their exes in strict sense.

Now, we can rephrase the question from ":)o they miss us?" to ":)o they think/remember fondly of us?", which makes more sense (for me) to ask. Surely I sometimes think fondly of my "normal" exes. And I know they remember me sometimes. But it is a positive memory, no missing/craving/anger involved.

Now, about borderlines:

":)o they miss us?" - yes and no. They don't because I think it is anyway "normal" not to. But they might eventually, and that might lead into unbelievably hurtful recycle/re-devalue/re-discard, which is disordered.

":)o they think fondly of us?" - again yes and no. No because you were and still are guilty of everything bad about your relationship, and you remain the bad guy. But if needed to bully or triangulate their next victim, you will be remembered as a saint.

It's a mess.

remember that the borderline sees people as black or white, good or bad, and it flips back and forth.

so, you break up and dont see each other... .and so you are painted black... .and she does not miss you... .and the new guy is painted white and becomes her focus of attention... .and as long as he is doing a good job and not letting her down in some way that is the way it will remain... .until... .he disappoints her... .which will happen... .at which point he will be paintred black... .and because she always needs somebody... .she will then run to the next poor dope she has lined up... .or if she is all out of fresh prospects... .she may decide to give you another chance and contact you and take your pulse and see if you will play ball or not.

so, miss you? remember that she suffers from constant emotional pain. she needs things, constantly, to feel better. some borderlines use drugs, alcohol, risky sex, etc to relieve that pain. some borderlines use people. maybe she will reach out to you to relieve the pain. is that the same as missing you? seems more like using you... .

borderlines are hurting... .and hurt people hurt other people... .and that is why it always ends in tears... .and each reconciliation results in worse pain for the non when it ends... .which is why these relationships get worse and worse with time.

they can't do relationships. and they don't miss us in the normal sense... .because they aren't normal.


b2

Amen

Very true! They miss, but it is another missing, and it is easy to do it with analogy of kids or spoiled teenagers.

My ex had a pattern of missing his exes. He made his ex overly jealous because he talked about the girl before and contacted her, and while being with me - missed his ex. What was common - his missing was always associated with hurting them and feeling guilty, being terrified that they were hating him (projection of his devaluation/idealization?).  The pattern would be - he contacted them time after time, then they contacted him, and if he was persuasive enough this is what we call here "recycle" happened. But it was not an actual readiness to go back to the relationship, it was more him getting another validation, feeling that he was not hated and distancing himself again. The last thing was discarding and devaluing.  He met this year with his ex-ex and came to the conclusion that whatever he admired in her he did not like anymore.

But with all that I am sure he is not missing me. For him I was more like a tool, not a person whom he loved, as soon as I became difficult - he stopped any contact with me.

I suppose I'll answer a question with a question here.    How do they miss us when they never Really wanted us for anything but to fill their Need anyway?    They are not capable of a normal adult loving relationship, so the only time that we ever cross their minds after it ends is when the New relationship they've latched into/onto is No longer filling their needs and comes screeching into reality.    And when that happens You can bet money that if they have the gawl to contact you that it will not be "I'm sorry for the pain I've caused... ."   or "I'm sorry about how I acted,   what I did... .etc, etc"     rather it will be more along the lines of ... ." Have you thought about me any?"    "I think about you all the time"     "I never quit loving you".   Absolutely no ownership or responsiblity whatsoever of their past. 

They do not miss 'us'?   They merely miss a feeling that they had while they were with us and associate that feeling with our presence. Their whole existance is based on feelings. Above and beyond that they are merely a holagram. They are hollow and empty (zombies if you will) and we made them and allowed them to be real for a brief instant. Thus when they have that urge to feel real, or the feeling they had while in our presence, they again think of us.

Its not real. They pretended to be real, like normal humans, but it was an act.

My biggest regret with having known mine is that I saw our relationship as 'real' for her it was merely her soothing herself with the sex we had. She has now triangluated with numerous guys after me. Each one was her 'soulmate' but then she would once again see her real self in the mirror for a brief minute and would run away again (to the next one)

Do they miss us? I don't know. More importantly, I don't care.

This is how I know I am detaching and healing. I might entertain a question like this. Start going down a quick run down of potential answers give the nature of the disorder. And suddenly I just stop and ask myself... .does it matter? Do I care? Will an answer help me at this point?

What I know is these folks are different. I know I cannot trust anything she said or even did. I know I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to make sense of things and get answers. It just doesn't matter anymore.

It feels so freakin good to say that!

Yep, you know, you're right because who cares? Why should we devolve our feelings of hurt, anguish and hate for these people by diluting it with Qs like ':)o they miss us?' It's irrelevant to be honest - in the long run - ok, it may be thought about when we're trying to survive as we all are now, but the reality is that their behavior, their actions blew a hole in our hull, it's for them to suffer the guilt of that, and whether they do is really unimportant to us as we can't really get involved in 'their' feelings, we have to divorce those now from our own, keep them separate - the oracle has spoken and they paint us black and blow hot and cold and finally, if we're lucky, we're away from all of it. I am saying our feelings are superior  *) and that we shouldn't feel anything secondhand to their inevitable feelings of guilt! They should feel shame, guilt, self-hatred because their actions invited that.

I think you missed my point. I don't think about what she is thinking or feeling or what I would like her to feel. I don't feel bad or hurt or angry.  I am not being flip when I say I just don't care anymore. I just don't. LOL.

I have better things to do with my time, energy, and thoughts.

Totally agree. Maybe he can't even tell himself that he's in love. Maybe it's just that 'feeling'.

I think there are several subgroups on this forum. On subgroup desperately wants to say BPD people are just leeches etc... Basically giving them the 'all evil stamp'.

I wish I could believe that as well. That would make healing much easier. The truth for me is what makes it all hard:

They are not evil. They are not leeches. Their behaviour can be leech-like though, and a lot about them leads to confusion and hurt. Unfortunately (!), it isn't all their fault. We shouldn't let the BPD be an excuse for everything as they are still resonsible. But they ARE ill.  And they're still human beings.

There are qualities to them as well. And therefore some people still care. Therefore I still care.

Doesn't make the healing easier, but to me it's the truth.

This comes up a lot, along with ":)o they realize they were partly at fault."  I think that no answer or internet example applies to everyone.  Some people will give you an answer of "no" but that's not correct.  Everyone has a different level of dysfunction.  I know from my experience, my husband was horribly verbally abusive and blamed me for everything and was very distorted, but once I left, he admitted to everything and wanted me back, and brought up all the good things I had done.  It's too bad it took five years for him to do that.  We all try very hard for them, harder than anyone knows.  So yes, they miss us.  They can't cope with what their disorder does to their lives, so they may bury the thoughts or feelings, or distort them into something they can accept.  I believe they do miss us and miss the relationship.

As Forest Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your going to get". Run Forest RUN!

Re-reading my own post here, would make we wish she would actually read the stuff I write down here. And somehow learn that I care, that I have some understanding and that I would like closure.

But even if she would read it... she would either freak out and just snap back in her Silence Treatment. More accurately: stay in her Silent Treatment :-P

In the end, it wouldn't make a difference :-(

Ahhh Forest Gump, I love that movie. I would like to imagine my exBPDgf things of me, maybe she does, probably with disdain sadly, however i realise that i would wish her to think of me partly due to my own narcissistic traits, I want to be wanted, need to be loved, need to be able to rescue, but now Im conscious of my issues I can change, however I don't think my ex will as her near fatal suicide attempt didnt force her to change - ah well what can one do but look after oneself?

Exactly! I am going through a separation with my uBPD wife. One day I looked back at all of the things I've been doing for her and realized that she is a taker. We live apart and I would drive two hours to see her twice a week, provide emotional/financial support, drive her places, and many other things, but she would not put much effort into the relationship. There was little emotional connection from her as she appeared numb to the world (or to me at least).

They need you like a oven. If you are doing what they want and cooking pies, great. If you don't provide some kind of function in their life (or if you get tired of the emotional roller coaster), then it's easy to move on since they have very little emotional investment.

Exactly my thoughts! |iiii

The apologists have not lost as much as some of us and thus can somehow show more empathy. I wish at times I could show more empathy. Although there is not a human alive that I know personally that would have or would ever continue to put up with what I already have when it comes to BPD

Life can be hard and we sometimes cope using antisocial or unproductive behaviors.  We all do, though certainly some of us do so more than others.  Our exes don't have a monopoly on dysfunction, nor do they have any superhuman powers to not feel.  Believing they didn't really care or don't feel seems mostly a way to resolve the dissonance between how we perceived they felt and how they treated us.

I have asked myself this very question every single day since the day she walked out on me before I got home from work. I haven't seen or heard from here since. That was 1 year and 9 months ago. I still care. I still care quite deeply for her actually, and there isn't a second of my lonely days that go by where I am not missing her. And you know what supernova? In all of the soul searching, and pleading to God for closure, I am no closer to any answers than I was the day she walked out. The miserable fact is that I have accepted this pain to just be part of me. It no longer cripples my ability to have fun or function but nonetheless it is still there... .very much there... .I just have learned to put it in the vault. So here is what I have come up with for myself... .they are human... .broken,  but human... .(heck we are all broken in some way aren't we)... .and yes they miss us. Maybe not like we miss them, maybe not as often, but you can't tell me for one second that when she hears "wonderful tonight" by Eric Clapton that she doesn't miss me. And you know what, maybe I'm completely wrong about that, maybe she never even thinks of me, and maybe he never even thinks of you, but since I will never speak or see her again, thinking that she misses me makes me smile, so I go with that.

   I still have no idea how to completely heal from this, but everyday I try a bit more, and the people here are a big part of my healing, or whatever you want to call it.

Posted by: slimmiller

Insert Quote

Quote from: BlackOrWhite on Today at 12:30:44 AM



I think there are several subgroups on this forum. On subgroup desperately wants to say BPD people are just leeches etc... Basically giving them the 'all evil stamp'.


Exactly my thoughts! Doing the right thing

The apologists have not lost as much as some of us and thus can somehow show more empathy. I wish at times I could show more empathy. Although there is not a human alive that I know personally that would have or would ever continue to put up with what I already have when it comes to BPD



Just as there are varying degrees of those that suffer from BPD, there are varying degrees of how Nons suffer.   There are some Nons on here that have spent the majority of their adult lives trying to live with a person with BPD and some on here that just had a little more than a fling for a few weeks.   The point is that for Nons having empathy for BPD's varies with how much human capital they have spent/wasted of your life trying to cope  with your SO/ loved one who suffered from it. 

If you spent nearly twenty years of your life, like a few on here have done,  with a BPD or around a family member with BPD only to loose the battle and the majority of your sanity in the process I would guess it is much more easy to endorse with the

"Evil Stamp". 

Do they miss us... .?

Yes.

But with a catch.

It is only between 2 points... .

In time... .

From point A... .

To point B... .

Hard thing to grasp... .?

Absolutely.

Does it make sense to us... .?

No.

The pwBPD is disordered.

That is why... .

They only miss us... .

In fixed points in time.

And then... .

They stop missing us.

Until... .

The cycle restarts itself.

Does this hurt us... .?

Yes.

Beyond.

Do we do that... .?

No.

We miss them in a continuous... .

Fluid stream in time.

Until... .

It gradually trickles... .

To a drip... .

Almost like a leaky faucet.

My exUBPDgf told me... .

That in the NC period... .

After she left me in round 1... .

That she missed me... .

And tried to reach out to me... .

(Private calls/silent voicemail... .)

She showed this "missing me"... .

Until she was triggered.

Then it vanished.

Now in the NC period... .

After round 2... .

Based on above behavior... .

Is it a far fetched assumption... .

To think she is missing me now... .?

No.

A pattern of behavior.

I think we all need to be careful not to confuse each other by pathologizing every aspect of our ex's behavior or by trying to simplistically characterize the thinking of the entire the population of ex's at bpdfamily as acting in the same mindframe.  They aren't.  As much as pwBPD, addictions, depression exhibit some characteristic behaviors, every relationship here is unique and many of the behaviors of the partners are human behaviors that we also experience.

If we are going to understand what has transpired in our life, it really helps to know where the pathology starts and ends.

Do they miss us?  

Well, if no BPD, addictions, depression or HSP were present the answer is probably something like this... .

• if our partner let the relationship, and we wantd to contine they are probably not missing us as much as we miss them.  Vis versa is also true.

• if our partner is i a new environment, and we are in the old environment they are probably not missing us as much as we miss them.  Vis versa is also true.

• if our partner is in a new relationship, and we are are not, they are probably not missing us as much as we miss them.  Vis versa is also true.

• if our partner is in a new relationship that is floundering, they are probably missing us more than if the relationship was doing well.  Vis versa is also true.

• if our partner is rebuilding their hart, body, and soul, and we are they are probably missing us more than if the relationship was doing well.  Vis versa is also true.

You get the idea.

So how does BPD, depression, insecurity, or high sensitivity personality affect the above?

If a person has higher than normal rejection anxiety, they will cope by doing things that keep them from getting into that dangerous place of being deeply attached to someone and being vulnerable to being crushed by them. When this happens, there is great pain -  even suicide, or, ironically, the seeking treatment.  Most pwBPD have had a crushing or near crushing heartbreak and live a life that keeps them away from that darkness - it's self reservation. It can debilitate them.  Rejection anxiety or sensitivity is at the core of this disorder along with impaired executive function (impulsiveness).

How they avoid and the extent that they avoid is very individualized.

In general, while as a group, we tend to be on a road of healing by grieving and introspection (as members of this support group), a partner with BPD or traits, will more likely be on the general road of avoidance of the emotional pain that could bring them down.  The degree varies in each couple/person.


Object permanence, object consistency, and object relations theory is confusing as they use the same word to explain three very different things.  Sometimes the definitions get intertwined.

Here is a experts take on object relations theory which explains 3 emotional relationship modes typically seen in BPD.  In this definition, the word "object" means "relationship"

Level 1: When a major object/relationship is present and supportive, the depressive, bored, and lonely features predominate. Here the borderline person is at the first and best level of function. It is characterized by considerable conscious longing for closer attachment but considerable passivity and failure to initiate greater sharing within the context of the relationships. There is a capacity here to reflect on past failures and to identify conflicts and resistances realistically. There remains, however, considerable concern about the object's fragility and concurrent fears of being controlled by becoming dependent. More (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.msg579575#msg579575)

Level 2: When a major object/relationship is frustrating to borderline persons or when the specter of their loss is raised, a second level of psychological functioning and a different constellation of clinical phenomena are evident. The angry, devaluative, and manipulative features predominate. Although the affective tone of anger is pervasive, it is only occasionally expressed as open rage. More frequently, it takes a modified form such as biting sarcasm, belligerent argumentativeness, or extreme demands. The anger is modified to alleviate fears of losing the object (in reality as well as its mental representation), while it still communicates the wish to maintain a hold on the person. More (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.msg579575#msg579575)


Level 3: When a borderline person feels an absence or lack of any major object, then a third level of psychological function becomes predominant. The phenomena during such periods include the occurrence of brief psychotic episodes, panic states, or impulsive efforts to avoid such panic. These phenomena each represent efforts to ward off the subjective experience of aloneness and, I would add, total badness. Under ordinary circumstances, this aspect of the borderline around - even if without any evident emotional contact, in using radio and television as hypnotics, or in heavy reliance on transitional objects. More (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.msg579575#msg579575)