BPDFamily.com

Good day all,

I am in such a bizarre spot at the moment.  I know some of you read my posts over the last few weeks where it finally culminated in me telling my husband (uBPD) that he needs to get help or get out of the house.

He now claims that he has been seeing a professional for 6 months (unlikely to be true) and continues to refer to the advice that THEY have given him (though he interchanges HE and SHE in referencing this mysterious person).  I obviously offered to make a visit to the person so that they could understand what he has to deal with but he got very angry and said that if I sought therapy on my own that he wouldn't bother to share his with me.

It all basically boils down to the fact that he says that he has 'special needs' and over the years I have promised to support him (by trying to make sure that the right food is in the house, by making sure that the house is clean, by taking on more of the dog responsibilities etc) but because I have promised to support his needs and fail in meeting his expectations then I AM SUBJECTING HIM TO VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE.  He keeps referencing these conversations that he has with various family members who tell him that I am not a good cook, I am not a good mother, I am not a good housekeeper but "THEY" all tell him that he needs to have the patience of a Saint to deal with me and "THEY" have told him that he married a professional woman who primarily cares about her job and that he needs to just deal with it.  THEY also tell him that I am an emotional child and that HE NEEDS TO CONTROL his own house by directing everything.

I do work a professional job but I work 9:30 to 4:45 and the occasional work at home at night + keeping an eye on my messages to deal with emergencies (we do business all over the world and I get correspondence at all hours of the day)... .I don't check messages after about 9pm or before about 5 am.

Now I haven't spoken to these family members but I know for a fact that they don't believe the things that he says and he seems to be projecting onto them in a twisted effort to get me on board.

He did say this morning that he feels totally unloved and uncared for by me.  It all started because he woke up and was alone and apparently had an anxiety attack because I wasn't there and the dogs weren't there to support him through it.  He says that I am a cold and callous person.  I'm not (sometimes I get accused of being too lovely dovey cutesy) I have had to put on a shield of toughness to get through the verbal and emotional abuse that erupts.  He wants my love ALL the time.  He wants me to show affection all of time.  

I think that we are finally at the root of our real problem which is that I cannot meet his expectations and I will no longer tolerate the abuse that he used to try to control me.  

He expects me to remember everything that he says and flips out when things don't happen the way that he wants.  He keeps saying that he is gravely ill and he requires my 'passing grade attention' to get better.  He does have some health issues, but this morning he told me that he is reaching from his grave for my help and I don't give it to him.

How in the world are you supposed to deal with someone who claims that he is getting help... .but references seemingly delusional conversations to try to control me.  I am becoming less convinced that there is hope here.  

PS I could be posting on either the staying board or the undecided board at this point.  I am so at a loss especially with him saying that he is getting intensive treatment.  This is just so so so odd.

Allibaba, please try to keep sight of your own reality, hold onto it dearly.  Your reality, not his

No advice... .just hi!

I have the same problems with 'meeting his expectations'

At first I couldn't meet them as they were impossible. Now I can't and won't try to do the impossible.

I know you said your husb is from another country. Do you think the native beliefs change his expections for you? While mine is not from a different country, he is from a part of the country that I think determines some of his thoughts/beliefs.

Just to clarify here. You believe without a doubt that he is making this up?

Given the dysregulations he has been through in the last 6 months when he has just hurled whatever criticism he can at you and said that everyone else thinks you are in the wrong, and you have suggested he gets help, do you think it even remotely possible he could have held this important fact back if it was true?

It would have been his first "go to" defense. Even I couldn't have held that back, it would take an enormous amount of regulation to do so.

What he says makes no difference.

It comes down to what has happened, what continues to happen. How it makes you feel and whether anything real is being done to change that. In short you need results not updates on what he is, or is going to do. The problem with using attending therapy as a boundary is that it can be countered with tokenisms

Desperation brings out enormous amounts of empty words and BS.

You have been though the talking stage now you need to base your life on changes that have been made.

"If things haven't changed the product will be exactly the same no matter the packaging they are delivered in"

Yes, given the fact that until a few days ago he claimed that he would NEVER go seek any sort of treatment... .yes I do believe that he is making this up.  Also, it costs money to get treatment and contacts and I don't think that he has the initiative to go find someone.  The person that he was seeing that I identified confirmed that he is not going there and that he badly needs professional help including time with a psychiatrist.


I guess that somewhere in this process I lost my acceptance of being abused.  I lost my acceptance of everyone in our family being abused.  

The good news is that I see a fundamental change in him.  He knows that he can't control me anymore.  This morning he pretended like he was going to hit the dog, I walked in front of him calmly and said "you don't want to do that."  He said "I do.  Get out of my way."  I said "Trust me husband.  You will not do that and if you do you will experience serious consequences."  There was no drama - he walked away.

The good news is that we really are at the root of our problem now.  

HE DOESN'T FEEL LOVED, RESPECTED OR CARED FOR IN OUR HOUSE.  RIGHT OR WRONG THAT IS HIS REALITY AND THAT IS HOW HE FEELS.

We had a simple situation this morning where I borrowed a knife from him to open a feed bag.  He had gotten the knife from his truck.  I didn't know where in his truck it came from so I brought it back to him.  He blew a gasket saying that I need to return it to where I got it from.  I made the mistake of telling him that I got it from him.  He exploded into, its always excuses with you.  He was yelling.  Our big dog was trying to scale a 6' fence to escape the insanity.  Our son was already in the car.  Grabbed big dog and took him back to daycare.

I got a call from him later telling me how horrible it feels for me to throw one of his huge triggers (me putting stuff back) in his face.  He said that I have absolutely no humility and that I should have been groveling when I realized the horrible mistake that I had made.  He said that I am stomping on his triggers when he is struggling so badly and that I am making the big dog weak by taking him out of a situation that is disturbing him (not teaching him - the dog - to self sooth).  I said listen 'the dog is sensitive.  you have abused him in the past.  This is how I feel I can best protect him.'  He said DON'T THROW IT IN MY FACE WHAT HE HAS GONE THROUGH.  I WAS THERE WITH HIM.  REMEMBER.  WHAT IS THE POINT OF REMINDING ME OF THIS.

New boundary (get out or get help has been circumvented and there is no way to enforce it).

I need a boundary around the temper tantrums/ language.  I am done with them.  The temper tantrums are now almost 100% verbal and at least today there was no abuse in them.  All yelling about how the situation makes him FEEL (he's been to therapy before with his ex-wife.  He knows how to phrase things if he needs to).

PS I have an appt for DBT/ biofeedback on Monday and an appt with the lawyer on Tuesday to draw up a separation agreement.  I still believe that that is where this is going.

My husband just called again.

He said that he has realized that he cannot control his behavior in the mornings and that he will keep this cycle up without some major change to environment.  

He says that he doesn't know where he is going to go but that he rationally cannot continue to put our family through this - me, the dogs, our son.  He said that he will not have our Saturday morning be like this.  He is also done with his own behavior.  He will not put us through another day.

He said that he feels so incredibly disconnected and lonely.  That the last 3 weeks have been pure hell in the prison of his own head.  That the only person to blame is himself.

I reiterated that I love him and that I am completely and 100% dedicated to him but that I agree that this situation cannot continue as it is.  I told him that I'll keep fighting the good fight with him but that I will not continue how we are living.  I emphasized that if he can come up with a solution (whether it be going home, going on a trip, renting an apt) I will support him in doing it.

This is actually what I have been looking for.  I removed all his ability to blame everyone else and have effective stopped allowing abuse.  Now he is looking at himself in the mirror and all he sees is him. 

Its incredibly incredibly scary, but this is the right journey and the right path and I pray that he finds his way.  I did not get the impression that he was suicidal at all.

Hold fast to your reality indeed.

He says many things. If they are how he is feeling, then they are almost certainly true at the time he says them.

If they are about how your actions cause his feelings, what you did, what he did, or anything else... .he has a much worse track record.

You are on the right track--validate him, and remember there is no need to believe his reality about this stuff.

I hope he finds treatment; As you observed, you cannot force this. I hope your guidance will help. You know the tools well, and when you can use them.

Many hugs to you.

GK

You are doing well and it is a hard slog.

Just keep in mind that once the yelling starts you need to disengage.

Good lord, alli --   -- I don't know what to say. I could have written these posts almost verbatim -- so many similarities here to my experience with my ex -- especially this part:


In my case, it wasn't family members (my ex has very strained relationships with her parents, even though they're around all the time helping care for her and her daughter), but "hundreds of people," "all my friends" -- in short, the usual suspects.

But you're handling this extremely well.   I really admire you for it. You're setting a good example for all of us here.

Hang in there,

e.

Good, let him move out and get help.  You will feel such relief.  It was smart to put the burden on him to find a solution - and you did give him alternatives.

My reality is very clear to me the last few days.  Thank you everyone for continuing to support me.  

On Friday he packed up his things and left.  lol  and came back 3 hrs later.  He was crying and he said, "I don't know where to go.  The only place that I want to me is at home with my family.  I am so scared."

I told him that if he was staying for the night then I was going to a party lol and he could keep our son and make sure that he is ok but that I would be back before midnight.  :)riving out of the driveway... .I thought... .man oh man am I going to pay for this one tomorrow.  Well I didn't.  He asked how the party was.  I said it was great.  I really appreciated the time out of the house.

We had another talk about things.  I told him that I can't control his behavior but I can decide what behavior is and is and is not acceptable in our house.  I actually told him "I will be damned if 30 years from now.  I look back with regret that I did not protect our son.  It is not going to happen.  He will not get stuck in this dysfunction cycle."  I reiterated that I love him more than anything but that we will not have tantrums/ melodrama/ swearing in front of our son.  The adults in our house will set a good example for our son (family members, guests, etc).  If we (the adults) cannot do that, we will remove ourselves or be removed.   I was basically telling him that house rules apply to all of us not just him.  If my behavior sucks, same rules apply (now I don't have much of a temper so my behavior very rarely sucks... .but when it does, I also have to take a time out).

I told him that I am not in charge of his recovery.  If he wants to be a part of this house - he better figure himself out.  

Holy moly I feel empowered.  Its not unusual for me to speak my truth when he's off his rocker... .but its totally new for me to speak my truth consistently - no matter where he is at.

He's still here... .but I feel another turning point within myself and it feels so so so good.

I just realized what the difference is... .For the first time in many, many years... .my primary focus/ goal is no longer to SAVE my husband or my relationship.  My primary goal is to take care of myself and my environment.

WHOA

Hey Alli 

I also want to say that I think you are doing really well here.

The thing that complicates your situation is the difficulties around food and the reactions he gets when he eats certain foodstuffs. I have read somewhere that when people have a mild allergy to a certan food that it can make them "crave" the food - something to do with the adrenaline the body produces dealing with the allergy side of it I think... .I know your H is not helping himself with the food side of things.

I am so pleased he had that moment of clarity and saw the situation in it's true light. That's good news. He seems to be fighting a horrible battle with himself and it's lonely in there so he's dragging (or trying to drag) you in as company.

It's so frustarting to read - I just want to say to your H "stop eating food that disagrees with you" and "book some dbt" he will feel so much better. I really hope he can sustain his insight.

Hugs to you 

Simply awesome.  I have been following along.  I'm glad for you.  Gave me goose bumps. It surely seems things are getting to a better place.

Good going, Allibaba!

I can't help but think, in light of your husband's football-playing past, that a lot of the stories coming out of the NFL recently regarding traumatic brain injury sufferers sound as though they're experiencing similar challenges. And they are some pretty manly men . . .

www.msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/mark-duper-miami-dolphins-latest-to-reveal-cte-symptoms-concussions-brain-damage-110913

Added: Would he find it way too threatening to see a clinical psychologist to find out how much of his suffering is related to purely physical problems and how much is more complex in nature?

Good, keep us updated!  Hard to know if his tears are geniuine or manipulation, but he does face losing everything.  So did my husband.  That was why he finally got help.  He made several false starts.  Stick with it.  Make sure it's a therapist who insists on getting him to take responsibility for things he has done.

|iiii You got it, girl! I'd also say that you know how important it is and aren't going to let it go either.

I ran into this elsewhere, but it sounds very close to where you are right now:

Good morning everyone.

I went to my first therapy session with someone else this morning (does DBT and biofeedback).  The guy I had seen for my husband seemed to really focus on my husband and his issues rather than me and where I am at. 

It was just the intro session, but I am fairly confident that I blew her mind.  Whoops... .

My goals for upcoming therapy are as follows:

Come to terms with the 2 most painful things in my life

*  what happened with my dad and my role in it,

*  going through the major legal case with my husband *as in together, not against* and the emotional effects that it had on me,

And personally getting to the point where I can open up on a less intellectual more emotional level with those close to me.  My coping mechanism has been to analyze/ attack things.

The psychologist suggested (rather unusual) that in future sessions, she will identify DBT skills workbooks for me and that since my husband is in a place where he knows there is a major issue (with himself) and he's bull headed about fixing himself without professional intervention - she said that I can at least give him the workbooks and explain that this is what I am working on.  Someone also suggested that we try reading the 'High Conflict Couple' together.

KateCat, I'll look into the head injury stuff.  My hubby also used to do martial arts and boxing... .he's convinced that he has brain damage that is physical.  Maybe he is right.

I think the poor guy has about 12 different things going on (including food allergies and a chemical imbalance).   Can't imagine being in his shoes.

Grey Kitty, You are correct.  While I accept the fact that I don't have control over the destiny of my relationship I'll keep trying... .because it is important to me and that's just know I am.

WOW.  I just read that article. ... .the depression and panic attacks... .it does sound a lot like what my husband goes through.  Like I said, he's convinced that he has physical brain damage.

I think you are doing your best, and doing some very good things.  In the end, you will have no regrets this way.  You are trying more than most people would.

Just make sure the dogs and kid are ok!

Most importantly you are staying centered and this is important for healthy evolution. You are reforming the direction of your future.

Hi Allibaba,

I just wanted to chime in and say that I am so impressed and inspired by reading all that you have done and continue to do in your situation with your husband.  You are an incredibly strong and loving person.  Thank you so much for sharing your struggles and successes. 

AnitaL

|iiii

Im pretty sure if I had BPD, or otherwise, I'd be wishing you were around and on my side.   Your insight is so very spot on and comforting, dare I say validating?  lol.   :)

I'm quite grateful for the time you spend here.

I realized yesterday what is probably obvious to everyone else ---

just like the pwBPD using the non as their outlet so that they don't have to look in the mirror - the non often uses the general chaos around the BPD relationship... .trying to fix the BPD (codependent tendencies) as a distraction not to look in the mirror.  (Cartoon lightbulb appears above Alli's head)

And by working the lessons and truly separating his stuff from my stuff - I start to see my own inability to be comfortable in my own skin and I have to ask myself WHY.  And I realized yesterday that by doing some horribly hard work in my BPD relationship then I am allowing myself a shot at being comfortable in my own skin (maybe not immediately but through some further really hard and painful work on myself).

WHOA

And thank you all for the positive and validating comments EVERYONE and I actually got a little teary eyed.  (Seashells, Anita, Momtara, Waverider, KateCat, Grey Kitty, eyvindr, 123Phoebe, connect)  that is kind and thank you - I see every one of you providing such thoughtful guidance and direction and challenging me when I need it).  

I spoke to the therapist yesterday and she asked me 1. how I had survived what I have been through (pure stubbornness) and 2.  what is driving the need for change now -- answer -- having my son and not wanting to continue the cycle of dysfunction and having bpdfamily in my court (one gave me the desire to change, the other has given me the guidance for change).  

We have had 4 very sane (almost normal) days in the house Sat - Tues.  I am excited that the therapist said that I should bring home some DBT skills workbooks for my husband.  

I had this same idea back in March and Grey Kitty told me that it would like be perceived as invalidating (good call at the time), but I have now gone through a necessary process of working on myself and speaking my truth at home and he clearly sees his mental illness staring at him in the face and wants to get better but does not want to go through the stress of adding another medical professional to his life.  My husband is an exceptional human being and though he's very broken, he's very strong. I wouldn't put it past him to do work on himself as long as I continue to enforce the 'new house rules'.  Which really aren't rules at all but are rather boundaries.

Hi there Alli,

Glad all is calm in your house  :) :)

This spoke to me:


I have also had the same thoughts about myself! Sometimes I think if I spent even 20% of the energy I spend trying to figure out my uBPDbf , on figuring out myself I would be all the better for it. In fact my bf has said as much to me a few months back! I think though that working out why we choose to stay can be the first step in looking at ourselves.

Glad your dbt is good. I now have cbt and that's pretty good too :-)

Your "house rules" remind me of a TV programme called "Three Day Nanny" where she goes into a house full of unruly children and sorts it all out in three days. She also has house rules and she says to the household (as you have) that they are for EVERYONE in the house, the kids, the adults and her. Nice idea - no-one is targetted.  :)

Allibaba, you are impressing me.

When I said that would be invalidating (back in March) you had some things to learn that you have absolutely nailed by now. One of those lessons is that you don't do something invalidating when it is easy to avoid. So many invalidating statements or actions are completely unnecessary.

This time is so different. For one, you are doing them yourself. For two, your H realizes (at least some of the time) that he really does need help and really does need to do things differently. And lastly, you have the communication skills to pass a difficult message along with the minimum level of invalidation.

I'm also blown away that you are handling your H's major dysregulation, and at the same time, digging deeper into your own issues.

Keep it up!

 GK

Hi there Grey Kitty,

You got me started on this journey and I so appreciate it.

I always knew that it would be stressful once my husband finished his seasonal job (about a month ago).  Instead of racing to fix things (get him busy) I just let things happen as they were supposed to.  I suppose I have been attempting not to control the outcome in a hope that we could finally see our issues for what they are.  I therefore expected the dysregulation.

Crazy scary process, but I am hopeful for the future.  By continuing to enable him and trying to avoid conflict at all costs - I now know that we'll just end up in a vicious cycle.  So I am letting go of my control and seeing how things play out (while carrying my toolkit with me to protect me in the process).

If this isn't too odd a thing to say, I envy any therapists you will be working with.  :) What a pleasure to have such a client. (Almost like that old Fantasy Island episode where a defense attorney is able to live out his dream of having a client who is truly innocent.)

Also thinking you may expect to have some healing sessions regarding any feelings that you failed in attempts to help either one of your parents with their on-going problems . . . .  It may not be super duper difficult for a counselor to identify some core issues for you, and for you to begin to move beyond them.

Hi KateCat you're funny,

My main end game here is to try to heal some of the huge pain I feel in my heart for what happened to my dad (wonderful, intelligent man, the guy who sheltered me from my BPD mom, and also an alcoholic)... .I was in my early 20's when his drinking got really bad (he was divorced and alone and I was one of his only contacts). I think that I am in my BPD relationship because of the abusive dynamic in my house and my role of always trying to 'save' the situation (a codependent who walked on eggshells).  Well I don't believe in life that we are given more than we can handle and maybe my BPD relationship is my opportunity to overcome my issues.

I was in a different country when my dad's drinking got heavy.  At the time I idolized him as a person.  We talked frequently but I never bothered to find out where he was at.  It was very superficial.  I was too enabling and codependent to even notice what was going on with him.  He had people in the same apt complex stealing money from him and using his phone to call their relatives in other countries.  He was short on money and ended up declaring bankruptcy (only learned about it after the fact).  He was living in pure filth.  The kind of filth that would blow your mind.  He was driving... .he could have killed himself.  I had been there 6 month earlier and he had been sober for 6 months and then he went back to drinking and everything blew apart.

Long story short - I convinced him at quite a late stage that he needed help (detox) but even then I was too selfish to get on a plane and take him there (partially because I was busy enabling my BPD husband, partially because I was too focused on my work), he listened to me though and tried to quit on his own, he was alone in his own apt started having hallucinations - called the police (who fortunately realized something was wrong and called an ambulance).  He had done some serious brain damage by that point and doctors told me that he needed to go into hospice to die peacefully.  My brother and I just didn't believe it.  Through research and persistence we found out that he had a treatable condition which the doctors had glazed over - we got him into a brain rehabilitation and after 6 months of treatment he was able to live on his own (sober) for probably 3 yrs.  Over the last 2 years, he has gotten alzheimer's and he lives in a happy fantasy world in a locked unit.  I talk to him a couple of times a week and visit once every 6 months (finally really taking time to be part of his life - good but feels like too little too late).

Despite the fact that I did a lot to try to help my dad, I still feel primarily responsible for what 'happened to him' because I was the one closet to him emotionally (even though in my mind I know it can't possibly be my fault that he is an alcoholic and he made decisions to drink). 

I think that if I had better boundaries with him and hadn't been completely wrapped up in my husband - things might not have gotten so far.  Probably true but something that I clearly need to let go of.

I have a history of trying to 'save people in my life with half @ssed attempts'.  Through this situation with my husband I am learning to stand up for RIGHT in a kind way and not be afraid to lose the thing that I love the most.  That way maybe I can lose my demons of not doing things properly in my history... .lol and obviously its a good chance to really use therapy to make myself better and have a good shot at being a good model for my son.

I don't think that the therapist quite knew what to make of me.  In the visit to the therapist we only talked about my husband's current situation and our recent journey.  She was like 'well having your background in advance I was going to recommend STOP WALKING ON EGGSHELLS but that's kind of stage 1 and this whole bpdfamily site has you well past that stage'.  lol 

Going through this with my husband is a real true growing process for me... .and separating my stuff from his stuff is finally allowing me to see 'my stuff'.  And again WHOA... .no wonder I was hiding in the chaos of my BPD relationship.

Ah . . . so you had a brother when all this stuff with your dad was going down. I look back at the period, following my mother's early death, when my father seemed to be drinking himself to death. The three of us siblings were in the 18-24 years old range, and man did each one of us handle it differently. I pretty much took off; my sister did the caretaker role; and my brother yelled at him, a lot. I'm now pretty much sure there was no "right way," but I know having an astute therapist to process all this with is a terrific thing.

My father finally quit drinking and smoking all in one fell swoop, years later, when he decided his health was beginning to suffer! (I'm not sure he ever noticed the effect any of this had on his kids, either. After all, he was drunk... )

My brother is an even more extreme case of a history of trying to 'save people in my life with half @ssed attempts'.  He just talks about doing good things for people and doesn't do any of them and spends all of his time keeping his time busy so that he doesn't have to look at himself.  We are exactly the same in our issues... .difference is that I can see them clearly and he can't... .and he had a heart attack at 39 yrs old.

And he was in IRAQ while all of this went down with my dad (he once told my poor mother that he'd rather be in IRAQ dodging bombs than spend Thanksgiving dinner with her... .as a BPD she didn't take too kindly to that) but I'm still laughing because I'm a little twisted.  lol

I'm not sure it's always obvious to everyone else when we're doing it, but I surely can relate to it.  I had to face up to what I was avoiding myself as well.  And am still working on being aware of it.   It's a good feeling (and empowering) when we to start to see these things and start tackling them.  When I saw this in myself, it also made me finally, finally, finally truly comprehend the idea of how we make choices to be where we are, and the idea of not viewing ourselves as victims.  I could read those words but couldn't wrap my head around them completely until I reached this point.

It also repeatedly amazes me how much we all have in common.


I can relate to this too.  Perhaps it will help to let to if you can realize at that point you weren't really equipped to do any better at that time through no fault of your own.  And so it may not have made an effective difference earlier even if you had. (our own Radical Acceptance?)

I guess we have to learn to forgive ourselves and accept our own imperfections, especially the ones caused by not knowing any better.  I don't think any of us (or very few) have treated ourselves with as much compassion as the disordered person in our lives, as well as others we care about.

It seems to me you already are a good role model for your son, and after this you may learn to just be a healthier one.   

I hope the progress has continued.  Wish you strength in staying the course.

Perhaps it will help to let to = Perhaps it will help you to let go if you can... .


Keep us posted when you can Alli- 

This is really neat stuff and I am so grateful to have found a community of people struggling just like me


I think that this is completely spot on and its so hard not to go back and say if only, if only, when the price was so high.  Yes our own radical acceptance is necessary here.

Thank you for this!

We often attempt to compensate for our own perceived shortfalls by saving others instead of ourselves. As we can't completely control others, so we also fail to save them, and hence increase our own sense of failure.

It is a cycle that is hard to break. It is a self protective form of projection.

That's really interesting.

On a positive front, I have had 6 straight totally sane days at home... .which has been a nice change.  Another nice change is that I am not trembling at the thought of another round of inevitable BPD insanity (for once).

Complete sanity in my house for more than a week now.  Dogs are calm, balanced and happy.  Our son is having a normal well balanced life with both parents totally participating.  Even through some stressors (preparing for a large training exercise for an activity that he participates in that is life or death - (rescue operation which involves law enforcement))... .

Could all of that nuts behavior have just been one massive extinction burst?  So strange.

I think that's wonderful.  It's too bad it takes so long before we can get the confidence to set our foot down.  Please keep updating!

I think most people here would be cynical that it will continue to be exactly like this for very long.  No one can change a lifetime of behavior in a few weeks, no matter what they stand to lose.  Yet, it's a good sign and I think if the counseling continues, you may get to a point where it's like this most of the time, and maybe eventually all the time.  Just keep your boundaries clear.

I am so happy for you!

 INCLUDING ME




My educated guess is that early/ mid next week he'll get squirrely again.  After the excitement of his big exercise wears off.  Then again he's got work for a few weeks... .so who knows.  Man I miss the days when I thought if I held strong on boundaries that it would FIX HIM.  I am grateful for the break though.  That 3 weeks was EXHAUSTING!


Maybe!  I appreciate the encouragement though!  :)

By the way, two good things have developed recently.  

1.  I am no longer responsible for my husband's breakfast and lunch (just dinner) nor do I have sole food responsibility - I used to get so much flack regarding there not being enough food in the house etc etc etc.  I made it quite clear that he's welcome to visit the supermarket should he feel that there are deficiencies in the way that the house is stocked!

I have come a long way from waking up at 4 am to prepare breakfast and pack lunch for my husband when I didn't have to be at work until 9:30... .(all the while being verbally abused) lol  This new situation has been ongoing for a couple of months and boy is it a relief.  I don't mind being in charge of dinner.

2.  I was actually able to explain to my husband last week that I need space sometimes - without him going off the rails.  (I spend almost every waking moment on the go either to and from work, at work, errands, or spending quality time with my husband - sometimes I just want an hour to myself - and long term I need that).  Less dysregulations in our house lead to less 'me' time and I need more healthy 'me' time.  He agreed (begrudgingly) and yesterday I went out and got my hair done and went to the store while he stayed home and watched our little boy  :)  And he grumbled a little but overall they both enjoyed the (momma free) time.

4 am!  Egad!  You know, that reminds me of all the things I used to do to keep my husband from getting triggered.  Including giving him massages almost every time he asked, even when I was exhausted.  Once you get into such a pattern, it's hard to break out.  GOOD FOR YOU!

My husband had trouble accepting a lot of responsibility for things, too.  He would put it on me, and then it was my problem if I did it wrong... .and yes, he said that it had to be this way because of health issues.

I think there are probably other dysfunctional things going on you haven't changed yet, but they will change in time.

I heard that "marriage is a compromise" so many times that I wondered if I was just not compromising enough.  But it has to go both ways.  And not result in verbal abuse when you try it!

I know!  I know!  I used to be really nuts... .like I'd sign into my husband's fantasy football team during the week to rearrange the players so that if he went off his rocker on the weekend then he wouldn't lose his match-up.  SO SO SO TWISTED... .I mean who really cares if he loses his fantasy football match-up lol


Yup.  But Rome wasn't build in a day... .lol

Good work Alli!

I think the old style you who desperately tried to avoid his triggers is seeing that the new style you still has to deal with his triggers sometimes. This helps to show us that we didnt have the power to stop the triggers by eggshell walking and trying to pre-empt their stuff anyway. The difference is that the new you gets more sleep, is happier and more easily able to deal with the triggers without going off the rails yourself. And of course long term the r/s is better as you feel better and he takes more reponsibility for himself.

I have been trying to wean myself off tying myself in knots to avoid triggering my SO. Being aware I am being eggshelly helps and I have started to introduce things I need to do into our time together. Slow process but you are an inspiration!

Spot on there connect!

So just a quick update... .

Things have been ok.  No verbal abuse.  No physical abuse.  No throwing things.  He's really really really down.  He's trying to put his negativity onto me... .but I am just allowing it to roll off me like water off a duck's back and have been saying things to put responsibility back onto him.

This morning unfortunately he started in on me in a verbally abusive way "you go to your stupid @ss f easy p @ss job."  I simply responded ":)on't speak to me that way" and walked into another room shutting the door (quietly, no slamming, no locking)... .so like any sane person, he smashed the door down.  I said "you don't act like that in this house. Ever.  Its unacceptable and left for work."

He called me on the way to work.  He said "everything is messed up.  We need to talk."  I said fine.  He said "not over the phone, in person"  I said "great. over the weekend."

I have a feeling that its going to be another one of those "you're not doing enough for me" conversations.  To which my reply is going to be "I'm doing everything that I can for our family.  If its not good enough.  Please leave." 

One thing that worries me is that over the last week - he's making little comments.  I believe that they are the first suicidal comments (though no normal person would interpret them like that). 

I have spoken to his dad and we have agreed that if the comments continue, I am going to have him forcefully committed (I have already spoken to the doctor on how to do this).

I really have a hard time believing that its come to this.

I will not sit idle and let my husband contemplate killing himself though.   :'(

I've now read up on the suicide protocol/ suicide prevention workshop. 

Man this stuff is heavy.

Good thing that I have been taking really good care of myself of late.  No drinking/ minimal sugar/ no skipping meals/ lots of water/  walks in the woods with the dogs.  Play time with my little boy.  Going to events w friends about 1 or 2x a month... .

Yeah, the suicide stuff is crushing.     But you've dealt with so much already and have done so amazingly well.  It sounds like you are using all the resources at your disposal plus your healthy outlook to help you through it. 

I just want to say I wish you well, and keep up the good work! 

I want to say that you're doing great and that "a decisive crisis" type event was/is inevitably coming for your husband one way or another (kind of like that moment of religious conversion where a person is expected to "break" and then be reborn anew). But . . . you know, a man breaking down the door to get to his wife. Yikes!

What would be a truly decisive event for you at this point? I'm just worried that if what that is for you is being directly physically attacked again, then that is exactly what may be coming when his frustration builds and other things have not "worked" for him.

It's not really a good gut feeling that I get regarding your safety. I'm sorry.  :'(

Hey Alli,

Although I haven't been participating much around here recently, just wanted to chime in.  I'm one of the many here who are very impressed with how much you've grown and improved, for yourself, your son, and even your husband.  Keep it up, you're doing awesome!

How has your weekend been going?  It sounded like you might have quite a conversation ahead of you.

Would you believe that my / our weekend was absolutely amazing.  One of the best of my (10 yr) relationship with my husband.  Our 'big' discussion on Saturday was actually really healthy.  My husband said that he is watching me get better (developing my personal and professional life) and that its terrifying to him because he is so stuck in a rut.  Poor baby is worried that I am going to leave him in the dust.  I got the opportunity to reiterate to him that I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE COMMITTED TO HIM.

He poured his heart out (over the course of about a half an hour before I had to leave for something at a friend's house) and shared his pain and why he acts the way that he does in certain situations.  He was able to acknowledge that he is mentally ill and that he knows that his thinking is twisted but that he deserves to have his feelings HEARD.  I agreed and I was able to reaffirm to him that I AM LISTENING but that I won't stick around for abusive or unhealthy interactions and that I walk away because I LOVE HIM and that behavior isn't healthy for either of us.  I told him that I am getting better for US AS A FAMILY.  He explained that right now he doesn't want to go to a stranger (professional) and talk about what is going on in his head when he can't talk about it with his wife, his brother, or his father.  I was able to explain that all of us would listen but his discussions about how he feels are often very aggressive and difficult to be on the receiving end.  He told me that that was good feedback and something that he can work on.  I did not push my own agenda on getting him professional help.  That could wait for another day.

I interacted with my husband this weekend, together, open and honest, kind and loving.  I told him NO regularly and was able to communicate why I needed to do things a different way sometimes and then other times I did things his way because they made more sense.  I actually saw a lot of compromise on his part which is somewhat new territory for us.

I helped him get through something difficult (calling the construction boss and telling him that he had made a mistake saying yes to the temporary work offer) and was able to explain that I support him and tell him that I support the decisions that he makes as long as they conform to the morals and values of our family and that basically I don't give a rat's @ss what anyone outside of our family thinks as long as we stick to our agreed standards of our family.  Oddly that was a huge relief for him (totally obvious to me... .I think that relates to how he perceives what people think of him... .and I told him that I support him not other's perceptions of him). 

We were also clearly able to allocate some responsibilities across the two of us as a couple... .so there no minimal gray area regarding certain things in our house (for example what he eats) and that I won't tiptoe around trying to guess what he wants for dinner etc... .if he is in a picky mood he can go somewhere else but that I'm not responsible for figuring out what satisfies his moods.

Overall it felt really good.  This model is so simple but its so NOT EASY.  I went to my second therapy session this morning and she reiterated that all empirical evidence suggests that this is how to manage dealing with someone with BPD as long as you can take care of yourself doing it.  She said that she is amazed by the journey that I am on at the moment (he he that was good validation) and that it would have been so much easier to just leave him, but that she respects the fact that I love him enough to fight for him (and for me).


This is totally understandable KateCat... .and unfortunately I am intimately familiar with what 'violence towards me' feels like coming from my husband.  This did not 'feel like' violence towards me.  It 'felt like' the pure and utter pain and frustration that a small child must feel when they can't communicate what is going on with them.  The whole thing lasted less than 10 minutes there was no dyregulation following it.

To answer your question:  any act of violence towards me, the dogs, or our son results in him being kicked out.  That includes grabbing me (even if there is no after sign).  He is quite clear on this point which is why he took out his frustration on the door 

Truly new territory for both you and your husband. (But that makes it unpredictable too, no?) Does your therapist have DV experience and the ability to assess risk, do you think? Does the therapist know that he broke down the door? I worry that you write that this did not "feel like violence toward you." And think a professional might have a different view of this.

I'm willing to accept the risk of the new way of doing things.  The old way was pretty damn unpredictable too.  In fact it was far worse.

Yes, she has DV experience and yes she knows that he broke the door.  The door wasn't locked.  It wasn't about 'coming after me' it about him not liking the fact that I told him NO.  He didn't even bother to follow me.  He broke the door and then turned around and told me that he would break every door in the house.  I said GO AHEAD but you will not continue to live in this house if you behave like that.  At which point he walked away.  I was already in the car by the time he broke the door... .I actually came back into the house to tell him that his behavior was totally unacceptable.   :)

Sounds like he was afraid of being abandoned.  Sounds like he was expressing himself and showing typical BPD fears.  Which is NICE.  He admits it.  He tells you his feelings instead of acting.  I think that is wonderful.  Keep doing what you're doing.  it's a lot of work, but it sounds like you guys will be one of the ones who succeed - largely because of your tenacity and love, and his ability to finally open up a bit or face losing you.

You have just made me very happy.  |iiii Thank you.

 hi allibaba i ran across your post and started reading them,i don"t have much to comment on them except that i wish you well and your family too,it touches me that you took the time to comment on my posts(with all you are going through) and it has been a real blessing to me thanks again, i understand the alcoholism thing with your father, i have been in al-anon for many years,but its hard to talk about BPD there, but i try to use the principles i learned there to help me deal(help) with my BPD friend but the hurt is a different one,but i feel i will be allright, and partly i can thank you.

 |iiii Great weekend, great progress. I'm delighted to hear it!


Q: Did he share some of the horrible feelings about himself that are so common with BPD? With my wife, it was progress when she started to share more of those feelings instead of blindly reacting to them.


She ain't the only one! This is one of those times where I am looking on in amazement. I really don't know that I would be able to do what you've done if I was in that bad a situation!

If you keep this perspective up, you will thrive, no matter what. And you will improve your H's odds 500% or more too! (His results are still up to him, but you know that already :) )

Very glad to hear your weekend went so well!  |iiii

Thanks Momtara,  I think it was KateCat that mentioned in another of my posts that those who are able to stay "face their worst fears" and I believe that that is what I am doing.  I really don't know the outcome right now.  Some days, I feel like my husband and I can take this on and nothing can stop us.  Other days I just want to bury my head in the sand.  I do know that regardless I have to keep the boundaries strong.  Its the only shot for us - and I know that in my heart now.  


He did.  And its not the first time.  This is the 'normal' model of how things play out after a round of strong boundaries/ extinction burst.  Its a good feeling and a good break.  I generally don't expect it to last but I try to stay in the moment and enjoy the peace.


I really feel this in my soul.  I am starting to thrive as a person again... .and its such a relief.

I should mention that my husband did not drag me down (in our relationship)... .he found me broken... . he has added so many positive perspectives on my life... .the morals, the values that he holds dear/ that I hold dear, I learned with him.  We started dating when I was in my early 20's.  I was just a kid.  I'm glad that we had a few years to get to know eachother before the mental illness really set it.  It gave us the opportunity to forge the bond that is keeping us together through this difficult time.  

And a quick PS I am really taking care of myself physically and man does it feel good.

great!

when DID the mental illness set in.  was it when you had a kid?  i think that's common.

i

I think that his mental illness was triggered after a serious of quite nasty attacks by his ex-wife in 2005-2007 (she's a diagnosed delusional narcissist who has now been married 4x in 5 years).  She had married a multi-millionaire and had unlimited resources at her disposal for 1 yr before the new guy realized what was going on (that she is completely insane).  :)uring that year, my husband and I underwent a siege.  Three legal cases (including two criminal), break-ins to our house, blood left on our front door step, listening devices under the living room table, my husband's former employer had evidence that would clear his name and as soon as we found out that the evidence existed his ex-wife immediately showed up at the location where it was stored and tried to destroy it (later found out that she had listening devices in our home).  It was a really twisted time and if I hadn't lived it - I wouldn't believe it.  It was horrible.  We didn't feel safe, we could never relax.  We were stalked and harassed.  

Fortunately he hadn't done any thing wrong and she's not a very intelligent woman so ultimately (with the help of an exceptional lawyer) we were able to disprove everything... .but it cost my husband his sanity in addition to more than a $100,000 in legal fees.  His ex-wife had teamed up with another seriously mental ill woman during their crusade against us and the other woman was ultimately convicted of fraud and imprisoned for 5 yrs for her role in things.  That was some vindication but it didn't bring my poor husband back.  He had serious anxiety + PTSD.  To make it worse he saw some really, really incompetent mental health professional during that time who told him that nothing was wrong with him.  Just a regular guy going through a stressful time and he'd either get better or be permanently broken (which is why he now refuses to get help).

What we went through glued us together in a lot of ways... .we really trust each other, I had to be a legal witness for him and I stood by him when a lot of people didn't.  We spent a couple of years in our old country, cleaning up the wreckage, paying off bills and trying to get back to a normal life and then moved to Canada to start fresh (old country was a small island so he couldn't go anywhere without being haunted by 'what happened'.  Up here his mental illness developed and I was alone as he became more abusive (previously he was quite high functioning).

The arrival of our son has actually brought us together because we have similar morals and values around him and how to raise him (if you set aside the bad BPD behavior)... .and it was having our son that made me finally say 'nah - the old way isn't going to work anymore'.  

Our life was like a running soap opera for a few years.  We moved to the country - to a more simple life - and that's when the soap opera started in our own home.  He didn't start the dramas with his ex-wife but at some point in the process he began to perpetuate them and he certainly perpetuated the drama for years to come in our home.  

We are two educated, moral, intelligent, social professionals who got caught in a 'worst nightmare scenario'.  I survived my burying my head in the sand and pretending like everything wasn't happening and my husband developed mental illness (in addition to rheumatoid arthritis and diabetes in a short period of time).  

Ah, so you don't think he had BPD before all that?  And no mental illness at all?  Interesting.

It's a shame that that happened.

My husband was a sensitive guy and he had some thinking that wouldn't be considered 'normal' but to answer your question - he was a totally different person to interact with... .he didn't suffer from mental illness when I met him.

Then maybe other people are right that it's not BPD, or not strong BPD.  You'd think someone would have had it much earlier on.  Although maybe he had it mildly if his thinking was different from others.

Hi Momtara,

My husband has got all the classic symptoms of BPD and experienced some abuse as a child etc.  It was such a relief to find it because it was the umbrella that helps me to understand most of his behavior.  He's had a couple of periods in his life where he's 'lost it' and climbed his way back to a normal life (big battle with drugs in his early 20's and now this).  I think that its safe to say that he's BPD but when things are going ok - he's mild.  When he's under significant stress it comes out with a vengeance.  I'm not necessarily sure that BPD is his core issue, though (huge PTSD contingent, may be mildly bipolar, may have to do with head injuries like others have suggested).

At the end of the day, since I'm not treating him or pretending to treat him or even trying to treat him... .I don't think that it matters where the behavior is coming from as long as I am reacting appropriately to it.  Validation, boundaries, etc I think work with a whole range of mental illness as well as bad behavior from people that do not suffer from mental illness.  I know that my husband suffers from mental illness but have been able to use the tools at work with other folks too.

By the way, my husband also had Type 1 diabetes for about two years (full on insulin dependent) and now that is mysteriously going away (first off insulin, now even the pills are giving him low blood sugars).  Type 1 diabetes normally something that starts as a child too and you never recover from it.  I think that basically my husband is such a sensitive fellow that he reacts strongly to stress... . So strongly that even his body (immune system) starts to shut down.  The doctors here are still shaking their heads about the diabetes.  They initially thought that a virus of some sort stopped his body's ability to produce insulin and then out of no where - 2 yrs later - it started up again.  I just don't know - he's just one of a kind.   lol

And he's yours! 

This weekend my husband and I named his BPD personality.  I named him Juan Pablo and told my husband that I don't argue with Juan Pablo - it just makes him angry.  It was a cute joking thing.  My husband called him Generale Juan Pablo Garcia Hernandez.

So my husband is out job hunting today and its making him really, really nervous.

He sent me a message letting me know that he dropped off his resume.  I replied "Great just don't expect them to respond.  Work on other leads and then if they contact you it will be a pleasant surprise."

He replied "ok.  It was awfully nerve racking just dropping off the resume.  I'm so sick of being this new person.  I really dislike Generale Juan Pablo Garcia Hernandez!"

I replied ":)on't disrespect the General! He'll be very displeased!"

I'm sitting here at work dying laughing so hard and there is literally no one that I can share with.

I'm assuming that making light of it is a good thing and that it might be therapeutic for him... .then again maybe I've just lost the plot.

That's great!  It made me laugh too.

Naming emotions can be really powerful.  My T helped me learn that naming feelings can help us turn them into things that we can deal with -- something I had partially missed out on growing up.  So naming his BPD personality, and the fact that you and your husband were able to do so, sounds awesome.

Naming is great as long as you are careful not to make the name too meaningful. I used to call my uBPDh "Phyllis" when he got dysregulated. That was his late mother's name. I knew her pretty well when we were kids and she was definitely the genetic source of his disturbance. Obviously, this did not contribute to our getting along peacefully, so I stopped.

However, it still strikes me how much he looks like his mother when he gets "that way." His facial expressions and mannerisms become a carbon copy of hers. Fortunately, she was a very attractive, even beautiful, woman, so it is not too bad to watch, just horrible to deal with. Happy to report that I haven't seen much of her lately.

SIGH.

Two more broken doors over two weeks.

I've really been upping the standards of his behavior around our son.

I gave him 3 options this morning:

1.  Get help with me involved.

2.  Get out in a finite time frame.

3.  I am calling his dad and brother to get them involved.

He advised me that its ok for him to punch holes in walls of half the house because half of it is his.

YEAH ---- NO SIR.

I'm going to go ahead and post on the legal boards... .sadly.

Allibaba

I'm sorry to hear of this setback.  I'm concerned for your safety.  I'm glad you let him know this is unacceptable.

Please keep us posted when you can. 

He's punching holes in walls and doors because he knows in no uncertain terms that if he hurts me/ our son or the dogs... .then he's going to jail.  That's a positive at least.

allibaba,

This is just the toughest moment, allibaba. (And there was really no way around it. It was bound to come.) Things will have their one, really good chance to change for the better in the coming months. It's miserable that you have to have so much additional courage at this time of the year, but know that you are doing the right thing. 

Sigh, indeed.  You are a loving person and are standing strong for yourself as well as your son and dogs.  They are more than lucky to have you in their lives.  I wish you the best as you continue forward, whatever direction that may be.

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