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The lies and omissions are destroying our relationship so we've agreed that we need to tackle the issue head on but I don't know how to help him without triggering him.

Does anyone have any advice or know of any articles? I've used the search facility but can't find any useful information to help us deal with it.

In their mind, they dont lie. They just dont tell you the truth and if they omit things its not lying. So to try and appeal to them, is tough.

But on the flip side if you omit and just dont tell everything you are a liar. (to them)

I found the only way with mine is flat out set boundaries and when it come down to it, I tell her her words are just words, proof it. Its the only thing that has worked to some degree.

Hi Ryyder,

I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing this.  Your partner has agreed that the lies and omissions are destroying your relationship?  

Have you had a chance to read the Lessons on the right sidebar of this page? --------------------->

There's a lot of really good info provided there :)  When you have a chance, please take a look; it's helped a lot of us understand what's going on.

In the meantime, how are you doing?  Are you finding ways to fulfill yourself outside of your relationship?

Hang in there... .

Thanks again Phoebe

I fear we are cross posting between this and my introduction now ... oops

I'm doing ok now, we've separated and live 4 miles apart. Close enough to continue the relationship without being at each other all the time. It's help enormously to have our own space.

I'm still very confused though, I feel like I'm trying to unravel a spiders web. What I thought was just a toxic relationship for 3 and a half years turns out to have been something very different and both of us are having a very hard time coming to terms with his disorder and how to deal with it. I'm having to learn a whole new way of looking at and reacting to things, learn new skills and help him at the same time.

I'm exhausted, my head is spinning and there has been no-one to guide me.

I've read every damn thing I can get my hands on, I've been all over the internet, trying to learn how to cope and I'm drowning in information, while learning very little practical skills.

Oooh, where did all that come from? 

It felt good to get it out anyway  :)

Hey Ryyder, I noticed that too :)

I think that one of the hardest things to do is to let go of an outcome, let go of thinking that we can "help" them to see the error of their ways and to instead, get in a lot better touch with what drives us to believe these things, i.e. that we can somehow change them.

What happens inside of you when you know he's lying?  What kind of feelings come up?  If I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I was being lied to, I would probably be inclined to shake my head and walk away, hang up, just get away from it to clear my head.

I value honesty.  So I am repelled by lies.

Does this make sense?

Do you have a boundary around lying?

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries)

I'm being referred for counselling myself as I believe I am co-dependent and need to deal with my own issues as well.

I cannot abide lies and every time he has done it I have left, which triggers the downward spiral of suicide attempts and or threats from him. Then promises of change etc so I take him back.

I don't know how to break this pattern   

I'm a nagger

I ask him not to lie to me, I tell him not to lie to me, I teach him how not to lie to me. I Left him for lying to me.

He still lies to me.

He says he wants to be with me and wants to change so I try yet another way to 'help' him.

We're stuck in this pattern... .help

I searched around and found these two links that might be helpful, Ryyder.

How to take a time out (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=84942.0)

This next one is about Extinction Bursts and what we might expect when our boundaries are being pushed against

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

You can find loads of information in The Learning Center; Workshops and Tools, Book Reviews, Questions about BPD and BPD Resources.

It's a lot of information, I know.  It's a lot of GOOD stuff that can help to find a clearer pathway through all of this :)

You are not alone in learning about your codependent tendencies   You're in good company *) 

It is difficult, they dont have any boundary themselves between truth, twisted truth and outright fabrication. They use what ever is necessary to best convey their feelings and perceptions. It is not always a deliberate transgression.

You can impose boundaries between you and them, but you can't successfully impose boundaries in  their own way of thinking. So any success is likely to be limited, and you will just have to accept that what they say is "interesting" and used to express how they feel, but not necessary your reality.

We did it! We had a conversation about our issues without it turning in to an argument!  :)

All it took was validation and listening and trying to really see where he was coming from and he finally explained why he's lied... .and I get it!

I'm so thrilled.

Wow Ryyder, this is great news!  Is it too nosy for me to ask what his reasoning was behind the lies?  And how this will help your relationship going forward?

Woo hoo!  Validation works wonders  :)  I'm so happy for both of you!

The lies have been around him seeing female friends behind my back.

Before I discovered he has BPD he behaved like he was having an emotional affair, sneaking off to see a woman, texting, ringing and wanting to be with them all the time. He knew that would make me 'kick off' as he puts it so he covered it up.

I had to take a massive leap of faith and actually listen to him when he said they were just friends and now I know more about BPD the obsessive behavior makes sense and I can see his friendships for what they really are. He craves acceptance and validation so much that when he finds it he becomes obsessed with getting it and nothing else matters.

We've agreed that he won't cover up his friendships any more and I will work on not feeling threatened by them.

Hi Ryyder,

it sucks not knowing whether one is lied to or not. 


You are obviously not succeeding at controlling his lying... .


He may not be able to control it either as facts are often subject to emotional distortion.

What you do however control is how much you trust him. Can you think of trust in NON B&W terms?

- areas where it matter to be 100% on a factual basis

- areas where you can afford more time for a decision to figure out his deeper feelings around the topic at hand

- areas where it does not matter

- effort you expend to validating the story

- risks you are willing and are not willing to take

- where on the scale of "snake oil salesman"  to "saint" you believe he is when you need to base a decision on him

123Phoebe gave you a link to Boundaries. This is a really important topic for your situation.

This makes sense. He says he doesn't see it as lying. He says he is NOT having an affair and to him he isn't. In his mind they are just friends.

I'm confused around how to enforce my boundary of not lying to me about seeing 'friends', without being forced to leave the relationship.

Ryyder,

How often is he seeing his 'friends'?  So much so that it's interfering with the time the two of you spend together?  Does he work with these women?  Old pals?  Have you ever met them?

Do you think he likes making you jealous?  Getting a rise out of you?

Sorry for all the questions

when he becomes interested in a new 'friend' he gets obsessed. He wants to be with/ring/text them all day, every day. This usually lasts around a month or so (I say usually, it's happened twice) before I found out.

When it happens he looses all interest in me and I become the enemy, someone stopping him from getting what he wants.

The first one was 2 years ago, when we'd just moved in together, to a new small village. He met her while taking the kids to school. They started texting each other all day, every day, meeting for coffee etc and him having a good old moan about what a bhit I was, how he couldn't breathe, go anywhere, see 'friends' etc. He put all his time and attention in to this new 'friend'. I insisted he cut all contact with her as soon as I found out as it appeared to be the start of an affair.

The last one started in Sept, just gone. The same thing

can't edit posts?

I have met both of them a couple of times.

I don't think he's doing it to make me jealous because he's gone to such lengths to keep the friendships from me finding out about them.

He says they make him feel good about himself, he doesn't have to worry about anything when he's with them, he feels safe. It appears to be more about acceptance than anything else.

It might very well be about acceptance.  Question is, can you accept this?  We have no control over what somebody else chooses to do, or who they choose to do it with.


The modify ability is for 30 minutes from the time of your post.

The modify button is located at the top of the reply box on the right side, next to the title of the thread.  Hope this helps!

I think you raise a very interesting point. It seems like they are more into the 'chase' or the seduction of another person. (not necessarily in a physical sense, it could be just a friendship... .at first) Because when you think about it, the core disfunction of BPD is rejection of those that they are closest to. Almost like once the 'chase' is over and its time to love and enjoy what they have (us nons) they reject it and start the 'chase' all over.

So in that sense, once they have the acceptance, they once again have to validate themselves by seeking the acceptance (approval) of another and we become collateral damage in the process of the cycle... .And they seek someone new to 'soothe' them

A lifetime of dysfunctional behavior which is always met with invalidation and criticism by those around them, causes an ingrained behavior of privacy and covering up. This becomes simply a way of life, even if the subject itself does not need covering up. Secrecy is their comfort blanket. Your desire to remove that blanket is seen as a threat and increases the need for the blanket.

To be completely honest leaves them feeling naked and vulnerable.

It takes a lot of therapy to override this, boundaries will often only lead to them shifting the subject elsewhere, hiding something else.

but why lie and cover it up if I've said it's ok to see her?

I haven't reacted badly the last few times he's mentioned going round to her house for coffee so why all of a sudden does he start covering it up and lying about it again.

Because it's what he does, unfortunately.  Sounds like this is a pattern of his.  Could be a control issue; he's not going to let you have a say in how he conducts his life.  Who knows for sure.

I guess the bottom line is how it makes you feel and how you decide to handle your emotions around it.  If it's okay with you if he sees her, is it necessary for him to tell you when he does?

I'm not saying that what he's doing is right or wrong, Ryyder.  It bothers you   How can you feel better about this?

[/quote]
but why lie and cover it up if I've said it's ok to see her?

I haven't reacted badly the last few times he's mentioned going round to her house for coffee so why all of a sudden does he start covering it up and lying about it again.[/quote]
Two things, first he never lied in his mind. Its like a computer that has an operating system and no anti-virus so it gets a virus and malfunctions (lies) and yet it will fight you when you confront the lie because it has no baseline (distorted moral compass) to compare itself to. Thats how they can lie so vehemetly and lie about the lies. And yet they can see 'your' lies (or their lies mirrored into you) Then they complain when others dont mesh properly (the computers dont work together because the others, the nons, out of self preservation, withdraw to protect itself) and thus we become the bad guys for rejecting them when in fact they ARE the problem


Number two, he lies because he needs you to keep a certain image and believe about him so that you can still be useful to him (possibly) in the future. If you saw the plain truth, you would reject him and or his actions. Untill you are completely painted black, theres still hope in his mind that you might, in some distorted way,  in the future be useful to soothe him again.

In the end the distance and your emotional health can only be determined by you. He is incapable of regulating even his own, let alone so much as respecting yours

I am stuck similarly. My BPDbf lies to everyone, me, friends, his boss, but never admits they are lies.  Also, when I have omitted because it avoids some blow up or accusation, then I am accused of lying and hiding stuff, etc. It feels like you are in a no win situation.

I don't have a problem with him seeing her, it's something he needs to do. He doesnt need to tell me when he see's her, I actually prefer it if I don't know. What I don't want is, when I find out he's been to see her, when he's told me he hasn't and he bare face lies about it. What can I do about that?

hmmm, you've given me something to think about there, thanks

I'm so sorry you're going through this too 

Ugh, it feels awful being lied to.  It's something I have a really hard time getting past.

Do you mind if I ask how you've found out about the lie? 

I checked his phone.

I can usually tell when he's hiding something because he goes all weird about his phone; that sets my alarm bells off so I check what's going on and every time I have found something, either via his phone or the internet.

wow ryder! im glad I joined this forum. im sorry he is lying like this to you, but kinda relieved im not the only one! its like reading my story! except my bf used to run back to the same lady , but then would use her in a manipulative way to start arguments with me. but the pathological lying is so much! his own family knows hes ill and he lies, but yet they insist theres nothing wrong with him and he tells the truth!

Welcome to bpdfamily eatonsangel. I'm sorry we meet here, under these circumstances. 

We are definately not alone, so many of us here have similar stories, which in a way is actually helpful. When you've been here a while you might start to see a pattern, as I have done, and start to realise BPD is a pretty awful illness and our partners are going through their own private hell, 24/7. It makes it easier to understand why they behave as they do and not to take it so personally.

Ooo, the slippery slope of spying... .

I felt justified in spying on my guy, too.  I mean, he was making me feel suspicious after all... .  I didn't want to be a person who resorted to things like this though.  I had to learn to trust my gut and figure out, for myself, what was going on inside of me to warrant spying? 

Found out a whole lot!  I was expecting him to be someone he isn't.  And I have no control over that no matter how many times I dig deeper into his behavior, i.e., spy.  I have to protect myself from feeling awful, while accepting that he is who he is.

That meant, stepping back to get a better feel for what was going on while keeping my best interest at heart. 

It meant detaching.

Then I get to decide if the relationship he's offering is enough for me to continue on... .And in what capacity... .

I'm finding it almost impossible to focus on my own issues/needs and stop trying to fix/change him.

I know I need to do this but don't. I need to work out why I abandon myself this way.

He, at present, isn't capable of not lying to me, I know this and yet I am still so attached to getting him to stop lying to me. I can't change him. I don't think he can change himself either.

I feel like my only option is to leave him and that isn't something I want to do so I stay and moan and nag and cry.

You are living by default you are not choosing your life. Choosing not to spy is the first step. Suspicion is a codependent disorder associated with dishonesty. Choosing not to spy is the same as choosing to disengage from behavior that ultimately solves nothing and makes you feel worse.

Easier to say than do I know. It is one of the first steps you are taught in Alanon to deal with living with an addict. Anyone who has lived with an alcoholic has gone through the counting bottles stage. Life got easier when they stopped. This is the same. The more you spy the more it is covered up. Spying becomes an opening for projection, as now they can legitimately say they can't trust you.

Hahahah, just as I read your reply your avatar waved at me and pointed to your tag !

I know I'm the one who needs to change, it's doing it that's the problem.

so, I've been trying to get my head around boundaries and found this statement “If you (behavior), I’ll share my feelings with you. If you continue, I’ll (action) to take care of myself.”

Firstly, I don't like the sentence "I’ll share my feelings with you", it sounds wishy washy and I don't understand it's purpose; what could it be replaced with?

Secondly, how would I apply this specifically to when I've caught him lying to me again?

I took the boundary sentence you quoted and applied it more to my own internal thought processes ... .

So applying it to your situation, I might say this to myself:

Jeez, he's sometime seeing this other woman.  I feel blechy about this.  I don't like it one bit.  Is he with her now?  I've resorted to spying on him, checking through his phone then calling him out on it.  He lies about it.  This situation leaves me feeling out of control.  How can I regain control of my emotions?



By being aware of your boundaries!  Your values.  What matters most to you |iiii

Then being able to share all of this with him in a non-confrontational way

I hope it doesn't come down to this for you, but I had to be willing to leave the relationship for there to be any kind of serious change.  I had finally had enough and knew I had to get my mojo back, with or without him in my life *)  I spoke honestly from my heart.  MY heart, that I wasn't happy with this arrangement. That what I want in life matters and I'm going for it.  I'd love for him to be a part of it.  I'll also be fine on my own... . And I meant it.  I still mean it. I've detached from some of the silly stuff, some of the moods and oddball things he says and does once in a while... . The heart of our relationship is pure. I accept that he has a disorder.  I accept him.

Are you really okay with him seeing this other woman?  It's okay if you aren't.  It's okay if you are.  It's up to you to figure all of that out.  If you're staying with him, knowing that he does this sort of thing, telling him that you can understand why he does it-- Does it make sense to check up on him then get mad when he lies about it?

Is it really the lies that you're upset about?