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Title: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: trying to understand on November 30, 2013, 03:21:28 AM I have a question that I'm hoping you all can answer. I've read in a million places that borderlines have a fear of abandonment. What I don't get then, is why they are the ones who sometimes do the abandoning. That's what happened to me. I also know that borderlines tend to idealize and then devalue people. Once a person is devalued, the borderline doesn't want to be with them anymore. What if that person then goes online to read about BPD and reads that the person with BPD fears abandonment and may be taking a pre-emptive strike to abandon someone before they can be abandoned and so that person decides to try to stay with the BPD person no matter how much the person with BPD says "I hate you. I don't want to be with you. Go away!"
See how that can be confusing? How do you know if they are just testing you to see if you will stay or go or if they really honestly want you gone? In my case, I was definitely idealized big time and then devalued. I was seduced for 3 months straight, slept with her twice, and then she completely ignored me and treated me like a stranger without any explanation at all. That, of course, made me angry because I felt like it had all been a trick to get me into bed and that she never really liked me at all. I told her how upset this made me and then, since she was my boss at work, she attempted to get me fired. I ended up quitting instead. Anyway, do borderlines really want people to stay with them no matter how much the borderline tries to push them away or are they seriously done with you forever? How can you know? I've read that while they're pushing you away, they're actually hoping you won't leave. What if you want to try to prove to someone with BPD that you won't ever abandon them but they abandon you instead? Do you go away when they say to or assume they don't really mean it? Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: zordon11 on November 30, 2013, 03:27:43 AM I think the problem is you will never know and they don't know either. And the tests? they will just become harder and harder every day to the moment you finally break. So if you have read histories of people on this forum there is only one solution - RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: laelle on November 30, 2013, 04:13:09 AM You are everything they need or everything they hate depending on the phase in their BPD cycle. Need / Pull Hate / Push - Value / Devalue
This stems from their CORE issues. They are internally making decisions about your relationship based on these "feelings"... . WHILE ... .their script is running that must end in abandonment, as they were abandoned at a critical moment in life. Their is no happy ending for them because they have in place a complicated array of faulty defense mechanisms along with a stunted executive control system that guarantees that failure. They internally "know" that abandonment will happen and that is a fate close to death. Must avoid the pain of abandonment at ALL costs. IT is a reminder of the initial abandonment that they have not dealt with! So they must... . They must begin to store dirt on you... .so it will not hurt them so bad when the abandonment happens. faulty defense mechansims They will use this against you when they are triggered (stunted executive control system) They will form "emotional" and sometimes "physical" relationships with one or many people to "prove their worth to themselves so you can be the villain", as well as use those people as garbage dumpsters and future replacements. This will all help when the abandonment happens. As your separate self you are idealized or normalized, ( where there is no intimacy) when you become enmeshed with them (intimacy), you become them and they hate themselves. They hate you! They blame you, they dump all of their garbage on you. You are a good target for the garbage because as they are Judge and Jury in their world, abd they found you guilty. YOU DESERVE IT. If it were conscious maybe they could see it and stop it, but they cant... .They are hard wired to do it. It would be easy to think that just telling them that they would not be abandoned and promising them the moon would take the fear of abandonment away, but it doesnt. They know there is something "fake" going on with themselves so your assurance means nothing. In fact, nothing is really about you. You are the object that they lavish love and hatred on, but in the long run, you as a person are not very important outside of how that affects them. They will however accept that slice of the moon that you promised them... That will help to keep the "dark passenger" at bay. The idealization makes you think your special, and even they believe there is something good about you, but the other side of the coin is always there, waiting its turn, and they will believe it as well. Their feelings are not sustainable, and such is the torture and pain of someone with BPD. They can not be grey... .they must be white or dark... .and with all that self hatred and shame, it is a struggle to keep themselves on the side of the white, while your soul is being pushed down in to the abyss so they can keep their heads above water. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Changingman on November 30, 2013, 04:59:55 AM You are everything they need or everything they hate depending on the phase in their BPD cycle. Need / Pull Hate / Push - Value / Devalue This stems from their CORE issues. They are internally making decisions about your relationship based on these "feelings"... . WHILE ... .their script is running that must end in abandonment, as they were abandoned at a critical moment in life. Their is no happy ending for them because they have in place a complicated array of faulty defense mechanisms along with a stunted executive control system that guarantees that failure. They internally "know" that abandonment will happen and that is a fate close to death. Must avoid the pain of abandonment at ALL costs. IT is a reminder of the initial abandonment that they have not dealt with! So they must... . They must begin to store dirt on you... .so it will not hurt them so bad when the abandonment happens. faulty defense mechansims They will use this against you when they are triggered (stunted executive control system) They will form "emotional" and sometimes "physical" relationships with one or many people to "prove their worth to themselves so you can be the villain", as well as use those people as garbage dumpsters and future replacements. This will all help when the abandonment happens. As your separate self you are idealized or normalized, ( where there is no intimacy) when you become enmeshed with them (intimacy), you become them and they hate themselves. They hate you! They blame you, they dump all of their garbage on you. You are a good target for the garbage because as they are Judge and Jury in their world, abd they found you guilty. YOU DESERVE IT. If it were conscious maybe they could see it and stop it, but they cant... .They are hard wired to do it. It would be easy to think that just telling them that they would not be abandoned and promising them the moon would take the fear of abandonment away, but it doesnt. They know there is something "fake" going on with themselves so your assurance means nothing. In fact, nothing is really about you. You are the object that they lavish love and hatred on, but in the long run, you as a person are not very important outside of how that affects them. They will however accept that slice of the moon that you promised them... That will help to keep the "dark passenger" at bay. The idealization makes you think your special, and even they believe there is something good about you, but the other side of the coin is always there, waiting its turn, and they will believe it as well. Their feelings are not sustainable, and such is the torture and pain of someone with BPD. They can not be grey... .they must be white or dark... .and with all that self hatred and shame, it is a struggle to keep themselves on the side of the white, while your soul is being pushed down in to the abyss so they can keep their heads above water. Bingo! There it is for all to see, this is so precise, now stir with all the personal stuff... .hello realty. The quick answer I was gonna give... . Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Yes they really want you to go, they are ALWAYS testing you No they really don't want you to go, they are always testing you Push pull Push pullPush pullPush pullPush pull act out Push pullPush pull Run Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: trying to understand on November 30, 2013, 06:29:26 PM Wow, these are really great replies. Thank you so much. I will go back and read them a few times to make sure it sinks in. I wish I had found this site sooner. The interesting thing is, I realized early on that it wasn't about me but I couldn't make sense of it. She would act like she was madly in love with me and even wanted me to meet her family, but at the same time, she didn't even know my middle name or my birthday or favorite color or anything that you normally know about someone you're in a relationship with and are in love with. I knew all those things about her and more. I knew the names of all of her family members, her favorite flower, etc.
Next question,even though it ended badly, do you think she ever thinks back and remembers the good times or wish things hadn't ended the way they did? Do they go into relationships knowing it will end badly because it always has before? Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: emotionaholic on November 30, 2013, 11:51:43 PM You are everything they need or everything they hate depending on the phase in their BPD cycle. Need / Pull Hate / Push - Value / Devalue This stems from their CORE issues. They are internally making decisions about your relationship based on these "feelings"... . WHILE ... .their script is running that must end in abandonment, as they were abandoned at a critical moment in life. Their is no happy ending for them because they have in place a complicated array of faulty defense mechanisms along with a stunted executive control system that guarantees that failure. They internally "know" that abandonment will happen and that is a fate close to death. Must avoid the pain of abandonment at ALL costs. IT is a reminder of the initial abandonment that they have not dealt with! So they must... . They must begin to store dirt on you... .so it will not hurt them so bad when the abandonment happens. faulty defense mechansims They will use this against you when they are triggered (stunted executive control system) They will form "emotional" and sometimes "physical" relationships with one or many people to "prove their worth to themselves so you can be the villain", as well as use those people as garbage dumpsters and future replacements. This will all help when the abandonment happens. As your separate self you are idealized or normalized, ( where there is no intimacy) when you become enmeshed with them (intimacy), you become them and they hate themselves. They hate you! They blame you, they dump all of their garbage on you. You are a good target for the garbage because as they are Judge and Jury in their world, abd they found you guilty. YOU DESERVE IT. If it were conscious maybe they could see it and stop it, but they cant... .They are hard wired to do it. It would be easy to think that just telling them that they would not be abandoned and promising them the moon would take the fear of abandonment away, but it doesnt. They know there is something "fake" going on with themselves so your assurance means nothing. In fact, nothing is really about you. You are the object that they lavish love and hatred on, but in the long run, you as a person are not very important outside of how that affects them. They will however accept that slice of the moon that you promised them... That will help to keep the "dark passenger" at bay. The idealization makes you think your special, and even they believe there is something good about you, but the other side of the coin is always there, waiting its turn, and they will believe it as well. Their feelings are not sustainable, and such is the torture and pain of someone with BPD. They can not be grey... .they must be white or dark... .and with all that self hatred and shame, it is a struggle to keep themselves on the side of the white, while your soul is being pushed down in to the abyss so they can keep their heads above water. In the 6 months I have been healing and growing from my 3 year relationship with a pwBPD all the books I have read the therapy sessions I have gone to the process of moving from the staying board to the undecided then the leaving and currently doing will in the building new relationships board. I have not seen anyone describe the BPD mind so incredibly well. YOU NAILED IT! Next question,even though it ended badly, do you think she ever thinks back and remembers the good times or wish things hadn't ended the way they did? Do they go into relationships knowing it will end badly because it always has before? Yes I think she remembers the good times but must hide from those feeling because of shame. And yes they know that they kill relationships and are incapable of sustaining them. None of this was you and you can not do anything about it but learn from the experience. Count your blessings that it was a relatively short relationship that you went through. If you go back and experience years of that treatment you will not be the same person who went into it. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: laelle on December 01, 2013, 05:15:33 AM I am certain that they have "missing you" moments. Someone suffering from BPD is human with human feelings. It is their faulty defense mechanisms and stunted executive system that defends their fragile, broken inner core that drives this illness.
You were more than likely similar to a nurturing mother who made them feel safe. (We all love to be nurtured, I know I do) As children we take from our mothers with no thought of giving back, as we have not developed those skills. A child cries out with "need" and the mother provides it. A child learns intimacy and trust from their mother during these times. If the mother figure is not there or is "not present" emotionally, they do not have a clue what true intimacy feels like, or how to trust. You cant give what you haven't learned. Their love for their mother figure is a love / hate relationship. The love they "needed" / The love "they did not get". They need both for the script to run its course. You are the surrogate "parent" and you become the object of love or hate. You will experience them both if you are one of the actors in their play. All of their available emotional energy is used to control their pain. There is not much left for anyone else. It is not that they do not want to love you, it is that they can not. As much as we want to "heed their cries, and take away their pain" we can not. You can not love them enough. I have heard it called faulty hardware... you cant simply run a "loving" program and it be fixed. They need to be reformatted and all the applications, need to be re installed. Only a trained professional can do this. For me, it ended up being a fight between my needs and his. He spared me little empathy, and constantly criticized and devalued me. The consolation that I got was a few crumbs he was emotionally able to throw at me. It wasnt enough, but I understand that he gave me all that he could give me. If those crumbs were enough you and I would still be there... .Our very souls begs us to let go of this, but our "own issues" prevent us from doing so. If you manage to let go, you have won a huge victory indeed. You fought your own "faulty core script" that made you stay in a relationship filled with mayhem and lies. What will you do with this victory? Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Findingmysong723 on December 01, 2013, 09:28:05 AM A child learns intimacy and trust from their mother during these times. If the mother figure is not there or is "not present" emotionally, they do not have a clue what true intimacy feels like, or how to trust. You cant give what you haven't learned. All of their available emotional energy is used to control their pain. There is not much left for anyone else. It is not that they do not want to love you, it is that they can not. I remember my Ex telling me in an email "I want to fall in love with you so bad." I love you as a person etc. He told me that I hadn't given him my heart etc, however I think that was projection. I do admit that I've been told I wasn't as open in my relationships before, but I met someone who was ten times more closed off than me! I also remember him asking me if we were friends or lovers, because it was either or to him, the black and white thinking. To me significant other is supposed to be your friend and lover, that's always the best thing! I always felt bad hearing from most people on here, their exes going on about how much they were in love with them etc, my Ex would use other endearing words but never "I love you." So, maybe he was actually being honest then since he doesn't know what "real" love is! Now that I've been out of the relationship for awhile, I'm happy he never felt "true love" with me, because it wouldn't of been the healthy love that I want and need! Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Ironmanrises on December 01, 2013, 10:17:55 AM After what I experienced with my exUBPDgf in both rounds, followed by 2 discards, the scary answer is/most likely both/neither. How to make sense of a conflicting answer like that? Unknown. It hurts nonetheless. Mine told me when she came back in round 2, "I was watching you from a distance the entire time of NC. I needed to see what you were doing." Testing me after she banished me, I remember thinking to myself. Why? Is she doing this now after I have been banished again? The scary answer is yes. Why would it be any different this time? Round and round my mind spins.
Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: .auto86 on December 01, 2013, 11:29:23 AM Next question,even though it ended badly, do you think she ever thinks back and remembers the good times or wish things hadn't ended the way they did? Do they go into relationships knowing it will end badly because it always has before? I am a person that sufferes BPD and the answer is probably not, once a person leaves even if we pushed them away we move on very quickly and shut the door on that chapter and in our minds we are always the victim. Therapy is the only key Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Waifed on December 01, 2013, 02:50:51 PM Next question,even though it ended badly, do you think she ever thinks back and remembers the good times or wish things hadn't ended the way they did? Do they go into relationships knowing it will end badly because it always has before? I am a person that sufferes BPD and the answer is probably not, once a person leaves even if we pushed them away we move on very quickly and shut the door on that chapter and in our minds we are always the victim. Therapy is the only key I think pwBPD may move on and not "want" you anymore but they don't forget about you. My ex spoke about all of her exes. Many "normal" relationships end the same way. One person is usually more hurt than the other. Usually the one who wants to move on has a much easier time and ruminates much less than the hurt person. She never spoke badly about any of her exes. I don't know what she will say about me but I don't ever expect to hear from her again even though I ended things. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Mutt on December 01, 2013, 03:46:31 PM I think pwBPD may move on and not "want" you anymore but they don't forget about you. My ex spoke about all of her exes. Many "normal" relationships end the same way. One person is usually more hurt than the other. Usually the one who wants to move on has a much easier time and ruminates much less than the hurt person. She never spoke badly about any of her exes. I don't know what she will say about me but I don't ever expect to hear from her again even though I ended things. My ex spoke bad about all of her exes. All of them were abusive. Alcoholics or drug users or a combination of both. I'm a part of that club now. I used to be the Knight in Shining Armor and I told myself, not on my watch. There was only one ex that she spoke of fondly and never badly. I can't figure out why, but maybe he left her and she left the others. At the end of the day, it's inconsequential. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: trying to understand on December 03, 2013, 11:59:17 AM Yeah, I guess I can assume that she didn't forget about me totally because she used to talk to me about her exes all the time. She would tell me embarrassing things about them. She wasn't saying they were bad people or that they were good people but she told me things like how one guy used to make a funny noise when he got off and another girl she was with who liked it from behind would fart on her and how she didn't like the smell of another guy and a girl she was with made a huge wet spot in her bed. She would tell me embarrassing things that the other people did during sex. Now that I know that she lies a lot, it makes me wonder if those people even really did those things or if those are things that she has done that embarrassed her. Who knows. It just makes me assume that now she's going to tell the next person something embarrassing that I did during sex. I don't know what it would be but I'm sure she can come up with something. I asked her if she missed any of her exes and she said maybe one. The one she missed was a guy who used to lay in bed and talk to her for hours. So I don't think she has forgotten about me, and I think she's probably checked up on me a time or two, but I'm certain that she's had a few replacements since her time with me.
Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: santa on December 03, 2013, 12:00:38 PM Both... .LOL
Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Johan on December 12, 2013, 08:09:55 PM Wow, these are really great replies. Thank you so much. I will go back and read them a few times to make sure it sinks in. I wish I had found this site sooner. I had these same words on here and in my head, months after I read letters she wrote to me and i decided google it because i was in turmoil... . I will not lie I probably read 80pages of threads in shock, stopped blaming myself and realized I'm not crazy, SADLY, cos i found diagnoses i delved further and felt bad for her and continued to try help... .and in end now a year out... .I am the bad one, who pleaded n begged... .and worried about suicide, but really... there is a picture I seen many months ago... . this creeps me out, as i seen it through my phase of blaming myself, and now i se her happiness. and my sadness... and i struggle... www.25.media.tumblr.com/12016ee1e722f015b9dcb2404285977e/tumblr_mjqp3buY0w1rpkjqho1_500.jpg as some said push pull push pull... RUN! Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: Iwalk-Heruns on December 12, 2013, 11:22:15 PM Next question,even though it ended badly, do you think she ever thinks back and remembers the good times or wish things hadn't ended the way they did? Do they go into relationships knowing it will end badly because it always has before? I am a person that sufferes BPD and the answer is probably not, once a person leaves even if we pushed them away we move on very quickly and shut the door on that chapter and in our minds we are always the victim. Therapy is the only key Thanks for your input auto86. Can I ask from your point of view if they close the door on you why do some try and come back? Have you ever had this situation if you can talk about that. Thanks. Title: Re: Do they really want you to go or are they testing you? Post by: pecia on December 13, 2013, 03:54:56 AM My BPDh tried to get me to leave initially. I refused because I didn't want to leave and I knew that if I ever did - he would never let me forget it, and maybe not let me come back. I told him if he wanted to separate bad enough - he could uproot his life and move out. It took months and months of threatening but he finally did it. Once he left he kinda latched back on. In the past 3 months of him being gone - it seems to change ever couple of days. His lease is up in March and he is supposed to decide if he is coming back home or not. He says things have to be different, that he has to be certain it is going to last forever because he will be too old to start over again soon (he is 35 - geez). I honestly don't know if he will come back or not. Depends on the day. He has been told that if he doesn't come home then, that I will file for divorce. I am finally ready to put my foot down on that. Otherwise - I am certain he would jerk me around till the day one of us dies. Kinda sad that I truly do love him so I stay. Now that he moved out so he can cheat all he wants (and he is), he frequently says he sees vehicles outside of my house (when there are none). Sometimes I catch him driving by the house when I am at home. His guilty conscious is always checking in on me. Test test test. lol - pecia
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