BPDFamily.com

Hello All,

I was on undecided for a while then on the staying side, but after boundaries and therapy and letting myself trust him again my BPDH again lashed out at me. At first he was raging which I successfully ignored and avoided. Then I was on the phone with my family (something he always tries to dictate the direction of the call since they dont like him. When I asked him repeatedly to stop interfering with my call and he continued, I expressed to my brother that I couldn't do this anymore. At which point my BPDH stripped the phone from my hand and started becoming physically violent toward me. He threw soemthing at me and it hit me in the face. Now mind you during a calm and level period after a recent incident with similar circumstances, I said that I was leaving and going to the police (walked there at 3 am in a bathrobe because that was all I had on and he pushed me out the door) got to the police station and banged on the door only to have no one answer. So I begrudgingly came back "home". I set an emergency plan in place this time so that I would have the nearest and dearest of my possessions in a safe place where I could get to them without him being able to force me away from them. Well after being struck in the face, I went to gather a few things so I could go stay at the shelter one of my safety plans. He then placed me in a hold with my arms pinned to my back straining my shoulders. I hit him in the testicles to get free at which point he punched me in the throat. He then put me back in a hold and demanded that I ask him nicely to let me go. Somehow without being really nice I was able to get away. I then started walking to the police station. He got into his vehicle and drove up the wrong side of the street after me, yelling, pleading and demanding that I get in the car with him (he was also intoxicated at the time). When this did not work he proceeded to pull into driveways to block my ability to proceed down the walkway. When I would try to go in front of the car he would put it in forward and attempt to run me over, when I tried to go behind he put it in reverse. He nearly hit me multiple times and this went on for a block and a half. Eventually he pulled into the wrong driveway. There was someone outside who saw what was happening and asked us to take it elsewhere, until they realized what he was doing at which point they invited me to come into their home and demanded that he leave. The police were then called.

He was arrested for harrassment and unlawful imprisonment. I currently have a temporary restraining order and am using this time to plan my escape. My problem is that while I have been ready to leave in the past (although my resolve and resources were not as good then as they are now) I feel drawn back to him. He was bailed out of jail a few hours ago by his father, despite there being a no contact/ stay away order I feel that I want to contact him. It is very difficult emotionally for me to give up on him and the hopes I had for our future, but I have my health to think of and my daughter's overall well being to consider. So now I am faced with the choice and a tough one it is. My family lives multiple states away, my daughter has only met my father and brother once in her lifetime. I have limited resources in this area and no real outside his realm friends or family here (he has been the totally focal point of my existence through control), he is a good father (but a bad husband), and his family has been the only ones she has known and trusted. If I stay near I know that she will be in her comfort zone and not have her life completely disrupted, however, I also know that if I dont break completely free that this will toxically recycle (and has more times than I care to count). So I am torn between packing up and moving halfway across the country while my resolve and NC order is in place or do I stay and do a trial seperation or seperate but stay local so it does not disrupt her more but leaves me with less support.

Any and all advice is requested and needed at this time so please reach out to me I need someone who truly understands to give me wisdom and strength in this trying time.

I'm glad to hear you are safe, so sorry this happened!    Do you have numbers for your local Domestic Violence shelter just in case?

I applaud you considering your daughter and her well being emotionally. Witnessing physical violence can have long lasting effects on a child, even as young as 4. Do you feel you can put boundaries in place with him to protect both of you staying put? You say you know there will be a recycle if you stay. What will make this time different from the others? 

Hi OAC,

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through, what you have been through.  First, please acknowledge the strength it took for you to take the steps that you have taken.  The threat or actuality of physical violence always makes things much more difficult, and it sounds like you handled tough situations with a lot of poise and self-respect.

I understand your concerns about your daughter.  You probably feel a bit torn between her needs and yours, and since she's so young, of course you want to protect her.  My instinct is to suggest that the thing she needs above all is for you to be as stable and secure for her as you can possibly be.  I cannot suggest whether that means moving closer to your family or staying put - but you probably know which feels safer and more secure for you.  She would benefit most from sensing that you are ok, and you will be best able to care for her if you are ok and feel that you are both safe.

Do you have other resources in your current location?  You mentioned a shelter - do they have any support services available?  Most cities have programs to help DV victims, and that might be another place to seek shelter and solace.

My heart goes out to you.  I'm sure others here who have been in similar situations will offer further suggestions.



My heart goes out to you.

Suzn,

I have no resources here other than my in-laws which are currently blaming me and trying to hold my daughter over me to stay with their son. They have always rescued him only to have him treat them like crap over it. I know that if I stay in the near area but with seperate housing he will do what he always does talk his way back into my life about how he will change, try harder, stop abusing and so on. I have set three specific boundaries during calm times: Do not take phone/ keys/ money, do not physically prevent me from leaving (ie holding me or blocking exits), and to not physically harm me in any way. These boundaries have not helped and the consequences for this behavior was that I would be gone PERIOD. Love however is a powerful thing and despite an order of protection, I want to know how he is doing and am genuinely concerned for him something he doesn't seem to get. I know that by distancing myself further and getting my family support to help me rebuild myself is best, but is it best to pull my daughter from everything she has ever known and throw her into a new and different environment? This is what I am torn over, more support and a healthier life vs. next to no support (other than the system) and trying to do everything on my own while running interference from him and his family. Hope this explains my dilemna better.

Overwhelmed,

Geez, that is crazy.  I'm so sorry you are going through this.  You being pulled to stay with a physically abusive man with a history of abuse is simply unhealthy.  Your draw to him and desire to keep this relationship going is not good and you are in the FOG big time.

What is the right decision?  I will tell you what I think.  I think that if HIS family "rescue" him continually as you mentioned - as well as BLAME YOU for him being physically abusive - that THEY ARE EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY as well.  SO - you need to distance yourself from them as well.

You don't leave a child in a surrounding that is extremely unhealthy (AND DANGEROUS) because they are "comfortable" there.  Poor thing - hopefully she becomes UNCOMFORTABLE real quick around these types of people.  Very bad example and model for her to see.

Yes, I think if you can get away to where you family is, that is the absolute best answer and the right answer.  Especially since you are feeling tempted to go back to (and bring your daughter back into) an abusive and dangerous relationship.

I think really sometimes the answer of what is BEST is much simpler and more clear than we like to think.  The answer is quite clear - we just don't want to hear it.

If you are still struggling with closing the door on you marriage I would say this:

LEAVE

Give yourself 6 months to a year (at least) of NC or LC while going to therapy for domestic abuse while staying near your family.

After that time frame, you could then assess your feelings with the help of a trained therapist.

GET OUT!  For your own safety - leave before you change your mind.  You know in your own heart what the answer is.  Save yourself.

Lady,

I am becoming more and more resolved. Especially since when I called the in-laws to speak with my daughter tonight and was denied that basic right. I refused to accept it and stated that it was a violation of my parental rights and I had no problem contacting the police if I was not allowed to talk to her. They have had her temporarily while I was going through serious cardiac issues and was released from the care of my cardiologist and advised to reduce stress in my life in order to prevent the issue from happening further. He is causing my health to become ccompromised and stood in my way of receiving proper care for months prolonging the time she was with his parents. Since they have a REVOKABLE power of attorney they are trying to use this against me for "getting their son in trouble" and they do not think that I am looking out for her best interests by leaving their son. I am going to seek a temporary sole custody order tomorrow via the DV channels to get her from them and break their control over me. I am very angry but in a healthy and proactive way for the first time in years. I have had enough.

I appreciate your kind and extremely poinent advice!

Got for it Overwhelmed!  Do whatever you have to do.  You are going to make it out of this situation.  Take it one step at a time.  That is what I had to do.  It all seems insurmountable at first, but if you just make your plan and start checking things off one day at a time - you will end up on the other side of this chaos.

Stay strong! 

OAC, I am sickened when I read your post, those awful things you described happened to me as well, argument, physical restraining, walking to go to the police, finding no help and having to go " home" , then the insanity with the car, driving up the curb, backing up, my uBPDx would drive past hurling abuse, laughing, then come back begging me to come " home", its crazy and im not surprised your health is suffering.Your H family have very similar attitudes too, they would blame me for getting their precious son in trouble, I suspect their motives were somewhat selfish, as long as I was around, their son would take his crap out on me, instead of them, my daughter and I were living with them, isolated also in a small town, so I know a little bit of how you must be feeling, 8 yrs later my x and I are also separated by a R.O, for me, the abusive behavior never got any better, failed therapy, circular conversations about " change", broken promises, the violence escalated, I became his trigger.

Yours and your daughters welfare are paramount at this time, you need space and time to heal and figure out what kind of future you want.

This is not an easy task, and I know it hurts like hell because you still love him.You have been badly abused, and only you know where would be a soft place for you to rest your head at this time, my heart really goes out to you OAC, you must do what is right for you, when the time is right, but that dosent mean it will be easy.

I believe you may have answered your own question. What is healthier for and your daughter? What is it that she has really known? Is it an abusive environment?

I would suggest you speak with an attorney if you decide to leave the state with your child. Since you have a RO it probably wouldn't be an issue but then again an attorney may have different advice. Cover your backside. 

So another update, since my last writing, as some of you know my daughter has been in the care of her grandparents for an amount of time due to my health issues and husbands instability over said issues. They are now fighting me and refusing to allow me to see talk to or even know the whereabouts of my child. It is like they completely condone the abuse and are protecting him by preventing me from escaping this bad situation all the more. I have involed the police and thus far they have not had the ability to contact or find my child either. Has anyone faced this issue and how can I work through this. I need to leave but have to stay because I will not give up my daughter and have her used as a pawn against me. Any advice?

So another update,

My BPDh was able to get full custody temporarily of our daughter despite having an order of protection against him for said child and myself. None of the court people, advocates, DSS or police can even comprehend how this was allowed to happen. The eptition is filled with lies and fabrications I am awaiting Public Attorney to help me decide what evidence to serve as a counter to his order and see if I can get their custody order revoked. My daughter is NC per court protection order with BPDH (however, no way of knowing this for sure) and the grandparents are ordered to retain physical custody and dictate my visitation rights what happened to DV victim rights? Any advice or support on this would be appreciated.

O&C

I was hoping someone with more legal experience would chime in.  Id like to suggest posting on Family Law with the specific situation.

This sounds like a nightmare tho.  Him and the parents both. I'm glad you reported him.

Sorry I saw this too late. What I would have told you to do immediatley after him being arrested is to go to the courthouse,file for exclusive use of the home,an order of protection from him,and sole custody of the child,ex parte'. That would have avoided all of this.

He probably,or his parents,filed ex parte' at the courthouse.This is basically a ruling without a trial or hearing.You ask,and you're usually given this,until there is a court hearing.

If they haven't done this,YOU need to immediately!

How did the gp's get power of attorney? Because,the rule is,parents rights aren't trumped by grandparents,school,friends,etc.,,

Well, this will work out in the end, but for now it is frustrating and scary for you, I know.  I am sorry that this happened.  Right after I filed a restraining order from my husband, I felt bad and wanted to take it back, etc... .but I also felt like I could breathe.  And slowly I realized i needed to be away from him.  And slowly he started feeling sorry about what he did, too.

Your hubby sounds more physically violent and more extreme.  You need to stick to your guns, hold on to all documentation and for now not get sucked back in.

How DID he get temporary custody?  What court did he go to?

You should call lawyers for consultations, and also post on avvo.com for FREE.

Momtara is right, O&C. This will get sorted out. Basically, your H got to the legal system first. Now you have to undue his stuff, and that means you need to know how the court system works.

If you can get a copy, read Splitting:Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. I know you aren't set on divorce, but you need to understand how the legal system works with BPD, and Eddy has decades of experience dealing with high-conflict personalities in the family court system. He's both a therapist and a lawyer. That book will help ground you -- it's a safety plan.

Next, find a lawyer and ask for a free 30-minute consultation (sometimes they are $50 or $100). The DV shelter will probably have a list of attorneys who deal with DV cases. You'll need that expertise, but also ask them if they have experience with personality disorder cases. High-conflict cases are different than normal cases, and it helps to have someone who understands how these things work. Before you go, put together a list of questions you have -- abuse really messes with your thinking, and you're in a crisis right now. You can get friends here to help you think of what questions to ask, and then take those in with you. Bring someone that will take notes. It's easy to forget what lawyers say when your heart is on fire.

Do you have a therapist right now? If you plan to leave, and you know that you are susceptible to recycling, you need someone now. Unfortunately, now that your H has involved the courts, it's not likely you can just up and leave with your D to another state. That's one of the questions you will want to ask a lawyer. But in general, once there is an active case, parents need to stay put.

One thing you could try to do with the grandparents, depending on the nature of the order, is to assure them that you have no plans to go anywhere, and do not plan to stop your daughter having contact with them. They are acting out of fear. My ex was also very afraid that I would leave with S12 and take him to my home country, across the border. My lawyer and I wrote a letter assuring him and his lawyer that I would not take S12 across state lines, had no intention of doing that.

The biggest thing right now is to make sure you have therapeutic support. Deep stuff. DV advocates are good, but you need individual counseling with someone who can help you deal with the love/abuse cycle. Especially if your support network is not close by. But I'll be honest with you -- therapists will work hard for you if they know you want to leave. It's heartbreaking for them to watch a battered woman return to her abuser  :'(

If you aren't in a position to get a therapist, one of the books that helped me was Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. He also wrote a less popular book about the effects of domestic violence on the kids. Your D, if you stay, is at high risk of ending up with an abuser too. If you leave, you break the cycle. If you stay, she's in trouble, not just you. Even if he's a good dad.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Your strength is coming through, O&C.   

Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome, where the hostage/victim/target begins to emotionally care for the abuser/controller?


No, no, no!  Would you seek out or make friends with a mugger, with a road rage driver, with a bar drunk?  Of course not.  Then why is this so hard?  Because he's got you into a pattern, an unhealthy one that right now seems like 'love' but it really isn't.  Keep your distance or before you know it you'll be right back with him.  The longer you are away from the abuse the more you will discern that freedom and normalcy are not possible in close proximity to him.

Can you move to your family's area?  Not until you get the current legal issues resolved or at least stabilized.  You need to find out your legal options and limitations.  Get advice from a few family law attorneys ASAP.  You likely need an experienced lawyer to help you navigate the traps and pitfalls of family court.  Common sense does not rule in courts.  There are arcane rules, policies and procedures, you need help.  We here in peer support can help to some extent, we've "been there, done that".  So we can provide insight, our hard-won experience, even what generally works and what generally doesn't work.  But we're not local and we're not lawyers.  So the first thing to do is get some legal advice ASAP so you can make as few mistakes as possible.

While all this chaos is going on, still... .Give yourself some time to breathe.  Give yourself time to recover.  Recovery is a process and not an event.  A month apart will find you so much better.  Two months, even more recovery.  Six months, a year, two years, you will keep on noticing you're feeling better and more time passes.  So right now take the time to ponder various scenarios and make Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc.


No, no, no!  He is not two people in one.  He is not a good father and a bad husband.  Repeat, he is not two people in one.  It's his 'normal' to treat those closest to him abusively.  You were his focus until now.  If you're not around, his focus could shift to anyone else within reach, such as your child.  Ponder that.  Ponder that very, very hard.


I agree, it sounds like he or they rushed to court to block you.  Yes, he was arrested but the judges can act only on what they've been told.  So an ex parte order was granted.  Likely it is in effect only until a hearing where both parents (or other interested parties?) can appear and state their cases.  Generally a date is set to appear in a week or two.  Have you been served the paperwork?  The papers will hold additional details, probably too their claims.

For the separation, divorce, legal traps, allegations, custody issues, parenting time issues, chaos, obstructions, delays, etc... .

Bill Eddy & Randi Kreger:  Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47078.0)

For the parenting, validation skills, insight, alienation, etc... .

Richard Warshak:  Divorce Poison (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=59950.0)

Life happens, we are peer support we don't expect you to know all of this.  (But before this is over, you will.  Sadly.)  Something like this happened to me too and I didn't act quickly either so don't feel you blew it.  My story... .My ex threatened my life and when I called 911 she even grabbed the handset, threw it in my direction and broke it.  Police came.  Our preschooler was sobbing quietly in my arms.  Because I couldn't pry my son out of my arms to hand him over to his mother like the police asked, they left.  I will never know for sure but I think my son saved me that day from arrest.  A few days later I filed a police report along with a recording of the incident.  Yes, I recorded it all!  She was arrested and I had a TPO and possession of our home (until it was dismissed nearly 5 months later because judge decided her threats we not "imminent" according to case law).  Soon-to-be-ex had to start living in a battered women's shelter.  Yeah, that's right.  Anyway, I had protection, I had the home, but as soon as she got out (and while I was basking at home in the thundering silence of a peaceful house) she rushed to family court and got an ex parte order against me for both herself and our son.  I even had CPS contact me to investigate her allegations against me.  At the hearing the CPS investigator stood up and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  Sadly, he didn't comment about her, probably because court didn't ask CPS to investigate her.  What a missed opportunity.  Well, the magistrate said the allegations weren't serious and set up a parenting schedule.  How did he decide it?  By looking at her arrest (subsequently released on OR - Own Recognizance) in the Threat of DV case?  No, magistrate asked one question, "What are your work schedules?"  I said I worked a regular 5 days per week schedule, she said she "worked from home".  So my ex, who had just gotten out of jail and had a Threat of DV case pending against her, got custody and majority time.  Yeah, I was in the right but got ambushed.  Around here in peer support, it happens.

I see you are concerned about your daughter being torn away from her environment. However, are you aware that it is actually child neglect/abuse to not remove your child from the home which abuse is occurring in? This is a slipper slope.

Also, I saw earlier in the post you mention that he is a good father, just a bad husband. If he physically and emotionally abuses you the way he does, what makes you think he wouldn't (at some point) do the same to your daughter?

This is a really important point -- if there is a CPS investigation, it's super important that you make it clear that you know you understand your H is abusive. It's ok to say here that you tend to forgive your abuser and still love him, but be very careful about saying that to professionals. It's a classic frame of mind for DV victims, but it can raise red flags in the court system. And understandably so -- because feeling love for someone who tries to run you over is not healthy.

But you are trying to heal and get better, and have self awareness. There's a really good chance you can break this cycle. The key is to do healthy things right now and not sabotage yourself while the court stuff starts up. After you get stronger and heal, you'll be grateful for doing things with guidance during the early stages, so you can benefit from healthy decisions.

We've been there before O&C  :'(  That's how we know. People here are sharing advice based on a world of collective pain going through this. It does get better. Leaving my n/BPDxh was the best thing I've ever done in my life, other than giving birth to a son I love. I didn't know how good it could be. But it's hard realizing that the only person standing in the way between a good life and a life of abuse is you.

O&C

If you don't have an attorney here is the National Directory for ProBono Domestic Violence Attorneys.

www.probono.net/dv/

You search by your city and state.

Mango, does that work?  The site says:  "Are You Looking for a Lawyer?

Lawyers are not listed on this site. We recommend that you try contacting some of these resources:"

Did you try putting in city and state, and did it work?

So I wanted to update you all on the situation and where I am at now and also to THANK all of you for your advice and warnings. Firstly, let me say that as a result of this everyone I have interacted with in the system has been fully supportive of me and have given me sound advice, support and additional confidence to stay strong in my resolve to be done. Due to H getting an ex parte order, without family court knowing the facts of the actual situation, he was granted sole custody temporarily, while his parents retain physical custody, especially since he has an RO forbidding him from all contact, including third party, from both myself and his daughter. As part of the evidence gathering to determine whether this order will stay in tact, DSS has to investigate and my daughter has been appointed a law guardian. Everyone including the law guardian who is now aware of the full situation is baffled by how this all happened and how it circumvented all protections in place for victims of DV. The DSS worker assigned to the case read all of the paper work associated with our case and knew in her gut that something wasn't right, she has been doing this for thirty years. In spite of normal procedure, which is to make contact with the person with physical custody of the child first, she contacted me. We had about a two plus hour phone conversation, explaining the relationship, all the things I personally have tried to do to keep the family unit together, my health issues, my background, my H background and diagnoses, and everything else. We arranged a meeting for Friday afternoon for her to come to my home, we met for over two hours here and she only cut it short so that she could go to my in-laws to persue that avenue. Apparently from what she explained the family court is already regretting the decision now that the full facts of the case and long standing domestic violence (that is documented in numerous police reports) and that it is likely to get overturned anyway with me getting custody and the ability to leave the state and be with my family support system. In addition, she was adamately enraged by the fact that it took me two days to get a return phone call from the in-laws to arrange visistation as set forth in the order. I requested daily phone contact and at minimum twice weekly physical visits. I was informed on Thursday by them that they will allow daily calls, but not until Sunday (because all parties need a cooling off period), that there would be limitations as to what I could talk about with my child and that any "leading" questions/ comments would result in immediate termination of the phone call, also that they would not be held hostage to these calls and she may be unavailable on some days. I was further told that I would not be allowed physical visitation until there was a time to observe the phone visitation. The DSS worker also informed me that they were trying to dictate her interactions with my child as well, something that she was not happy with and does not bode well with their abilities to keep physical custody since an investigation is required including full access to the child without dictation. I will find out on Monday how their contact with her went and if they don't have anything "damning" on me that would prevent me from being a mother, she was going to call legal aid in our area and demand that they get me an attorney ASAP to contest the order. This has all given me hope and allowed me to have peace and sleep somewhat decently at night.

I am thankful however, that this has allowed me time to HEAL THYSELF and work on me so that I can be a better parent for my child. I am doing the things I was passionate about before my BPDH entered the picture. I am laughing and having fun again, enjoying the freedom to reunite me with me again. It has also allowed me time to reconnect with my family that has been astranged because they couldn't deal with him meddling in conversations and dictating what I could and couldn't say to them. I have an appointment with a therapist later this week to help me process everything whom I was with years ago dealing with another family memebers mental health derailing my life. Apparently being raised with someone with mental illness opens you up to being more accepting of those with faults which often are beyond their control. Not to mention I truly have a passion for helping others and my minor was sociology/psychology based. The DSS worker thinks this set me up for the perfect storm and explains why it took so long for me to take off the rose colored glasses and get out.

Some of you posted and I wanted to respond to your posts:

LNL: Sought counseling; NOT GOING BACK. I have been detatching for a while just didn't realize I was technically doing it, I utilized and enforced boundaries and with this fight fo rmy daughter the resolve and empowerment continue to increase daily. BTW I am also borrowing the book you suggested.

ML: I went to family court the day before he filed and was advised to get out and then file for custody in the jurisdiction/ state I was fleeing to. The reason for this was so that I could make a clean break and not be tied to this state anymore. Unfortunately that advice cost me dearly.

MT: I have my journals (when I had the ability) to document the abuse ove that last seven years (ALL DATED!), emails between his psychiatrist and I explaining what was happening with our relationship, and all of the endless "med changes" trying to get him stable. Our state has legal aid and I have already filed for an attrney just waiting for one to be assigned to me. Hopefully  early this week. NOT GOING BACK, my family is back in my life and I couldn't be happier save for having my daughter.

FD: I do know Stockholm hence why when he was initially arrested I refused to press charges and it took some pressing for me to get the RO. I have since had time and space and contacted the DA to let her know that I now want to persue any and all charges that can be brought against him. Now that I have cleaned and rearranged my external environment (soon to be ex couldn't be bothered with cleaning) have doe the most I could to purge, am making counseling arrangements, following court orders, however, DSS worker stated that the court may reverse custody decision now that they have the police reports and my statements. She is trying to get an attorney for me by Monday. Happier now than I have been in years, may God grant me my wish of having my baby for Christmas. Paperwork is complete BS, in-laws dictating visitation and I have to have his written permission to remove her from their home. It is ridiculousnees, his family has more money than brains.

gain, I thank all of you for reaching out and hope to have good news soon. In the meantime I am taking care of myself and every battle is making me stronger. I have my health back so that is one thing I can be truly thankful for.

Love you all I will close for now.

Okay, it looks fairly certain - as certain as these topsy-turvy cases can be - that your ex has a long laundry list of issues and poor behaviors.  With all that against him, it will be difficult for him to be in charge of parenting.  However... .

His parents the in-laws have tried to take over parenting decisions.  Maybe in the past, while you were entangled with abusive ex, they were significantly involved.  But in most states grandparents have only limited rights and in some virtually none at all.  So they've taken the stance that if their son is a bad parent, then you must be declared a bad parent too, leaving them in charge.  It sounds like they were the ones to file the ex parte petition?  So grandparents versus a parent in a custody struggle would mean they would have demonstrate being substantially better than you.  Let's hope the DSS and other professional all do their jobs well.

For his parents to have done what they have done, they probably have some PDs as well.  It's not all "we were just trying to protect our grandchild".  Even so, the system may not want to call them out on all their overreaching actions, so stand up for yourself at every opportunity.

OW&C, do you think your in-laws have retained an attorney? As shocking as their actions are, I have to admit it sounds eerily similar to what I was advised to do when I fled with S12. My attorney told me in advance that if I had to flee (I didn't disclose where I was, and I had S12 with me), to put S12 on the phone with his dad as soon as possible. My L emailed N/BPDx (and his L when he got one) that N/BPDx was not to have inappropriate conversations with S12, not to ask leading questions, he was not to try to figure out where we were living or ask questions about me, and that the conversation would be terminated if N/BPDx did not follow the protocol.

The only thing different is that my L said to make sure S12 had daily contact with his dad.

You have DSS and DV involved, so maybe it is different. But it sounds to me like the grandparents have already received legal counsel (sorry if that was explicit in your post and I missed it).

Just saying this because as shocking as it must feel to have this happen, your in-laws are in many ways behaving as the court might expect them to, and lawyers might counsel them to. In other words, they are acting in the best interests of the child during a chaotic, heated, uncertain time. They don't know what emotional state you are in, and are acting out of fear. If, as FD, they have PDs, that's a whole other story. But I don't think their actions during this tumultuous week are going to appear too suspect to the court. If anything, the culprit seems to be the court itself.

Also the fact that you can see that this is an opportunity to connect back with yourself, and your family -- is wonderful. Getting out of these relationship is not for the faint of heart. It takes a tremendous amount of courage and self-awareness. Leaving my marriage was the hardest thing I've ever done, and the last 3 years have been the most amazing period of self-discovery. I learned that no one can break me. I'm tougher than I ever knew, and so are you.

This will sort out. Everything sounds promising. 

This all sounds really good, especially that the guardian ad litem type person sees their bad behavior and understands the situation now.  Just keep diong what you're doing and be strong.  :)on't take anything for granted, though, until you have your child back.  Some other person could tell the court some other weird thing and mess everything up (I have no idea what, just saying you have to keep your eyes open in these cases.)  This all sounds great.  Stay vigilant.  Hang in there!

If you go into the Womenslaw.org link you can search by state for dv attorneys.

So an update:

I now have an attorney who with exceedingly limited information is cautiously optimistic. The DSS worker and I have nearly daily contact, she is seeing where H got some of his controlling behaviors from, as he has dictated to her on several occasions and been downright rude. He is blaming me for their having to take my child to a therapist and also to have DSS in their home although it was their supporting petitions to the court for their son that created the mess, but I am being blamed. After being told I would be able to have daily contact that has since been changed, now Father in law dictates once or twice a week, I started calling daily and recording the conversations as well. My F-I-L has also been threatening although not directly that if I don't get the order of protection dropped for their son that my visitation will significantly suffer, until "their son has the same rights as you". The hid the fact of her caroling at preschool from me because their son could not be there and my daughter was hurt by this, it is so horrible to hear the disappointment in her voice but I have directed her to ask her GPs why such things have happened. The law guardian is also on my side.

Another positive is that my state has the supreme court hear "integrated domestic violence cases" in which one judge decides not only H criminal fate but custody as well, so him sweeping things under the rug and downright lying about the situation can't happen anymore. Everything must be heard in one court so this works in my favor as well as the DSS worker is getting reports detailing long standing history of DV, mental instability and is also contacted his ex in order to establish a pattern with her (together 6 yrs similar abuse pattern, 2 kids, poor parent then, substance issues as well then, not much has changed). He will not get to keep custody, the DA is not going to drop the order of protection and is persuing all charges possible against him at this time and GPs due to their attempts to control and manipulate those involved in our case have been not well received and seem to only be protecting their son and his rights rather than protecting and working in the best interests of her. FIL actually yelled at me in a very threatening manner earlier this afternoon accusing me f causing all of this undue stress on them and their lives, putting my daughter through "enough", and basically painting me black. I have kept my head held high and have not let them get me down or intimidate me. My FIL thinks if he throws enough money at this (the only thing they have over me) that it will go away and they or their son will get our child, either that or they are hoping that by making me jump through hoops to have contact with my child will wear me down so that I can be open for their son to try to get back in my life. Unfortunately he has never supported himself and they don't want to support him or at least that is what they have claimed the last 7 years. I am not sure of their true intentions but it is definately not in the interests of my child it is of their own and their sons.

Another positive is that my brother drove up and is staying with me for as long as possible before beginning a new work project in January, so it has been great to spend time with him, he has always been my rock, even as kids. Dily contact with my family has also been great. My father is working on gettin gme a job as a safety officer with his and my brother's company so if it works we can get on the same long term projects at least until I get on my feet and this will prove to the courts that not only do I have an active support network but also plans, a better job than I have ever had and truly just need to be allowed to leave this bad situation. Oh and court is December 23rd so hopefully I will have my baby back before XMAS!

Well goodnight all I will close for now. Thanks for listening.

Thanks for the update.  Often we tell new members that our custody and parenting struggles are a marathon and not a sprint.  However, as emphasized in your situation, it a sprint now that will blend into a marathon.

Beware of making deals in the short term that damage your long term efforts.  Making deals with an uncooperative and obstructive parent (or grandparents) may seem to resolve things quickly but cases like yours probably requires professional evaluations and judicial decisions.  For you, the typical mediation sessions, negotiation attempts and settlement conferences won't work and would end up sabotaging yourself on long term issues, best to seek professional evaluations and judicial decisions.  Most likely the professionals and the court will give far better results than any 'deals' you can get from the difficult ex or in-laws.

I'm so glad this ship is turning around for you, OW&C -- and thanks for posting the update. I was wondering how you were doing. When I brought a parenting coordinator into my case, my ex did the same thing you described: He started dictating how things were going to be. He wrote long (and I mean long) letters with instructions on what information I had to share with him, right down to the kind of router I needed to buy so that S12 could Skype with him from S12's bedroom. That kind of controlling behavior doesn't go over well with professionals.

More of his behavior (and the grandparents) will come to light. But keep in mind what FD is saying -- short term deals are very, very difficult to turn around. Once you agree to something, the court doesn't like to see it change. No one will tell you that, but it's how it works. Once an agreement is made, it usually requires "substantial change in circumstances" to get it changed. You see things very clearly with the grandparents, that they are not acting in the best interests of your daughter, and they aren't going to change.

Great to hear that your brother is there to lend support, and that you'll be able to start a good job soon to give you a fresh start. I hope you get your daughter for the holidays 

So, another update. I spoke with the DA today who is livid at this entire situation, she stated unequivocally that she would be dragged kicking and screaming from the court if I were not granted sole custody. The llaw guardian appointed to my child is also recommending that she be returned to me and the DSS worker was able to get reports not only of the long standing physical abuse in our relationship, but also reports from his previous relationship and two children with whom he has had no contact with since 2008.

I have not agreed to do anything the GPs have demanded, I have remained strong in this for my child. I am currently undergoing treatment for PTSD as a result of the trauma suffered at his hands.

I was not even permitted to drop off holiday cupcakes to my child's preschhol director earlier this week, so I again took the moral high road and took them to the DV shelter to brighten the spirits of those there.

My attorney put together an awesome petition that we submitted to the court today, so they will have had sufficient time to review it before Monday afternoon.

Any prayers and well wishes gladly accepted at this point as while it looks like everything will go in my favor on Monday, I am still worried.

I love all my BPD Family and wish all of you the best of holidays!

Like everyone here, we hope it gets resolved in the next few days.  But we also have to be realistic, it might be a slam dunk, or maybe not.  So anticipate that the in-laws will contest whatever is said.  But you need to keep the facts front and foremost.  Unless you are seen as an unfit parent, their claims should have minimal weight.  They may try to piggyback onto their son's rights as parent, so be prepared to detail both son's poor behaviors and history and also their own pattern of blocking without basis.  If they claim they did it only because they were "following the order" they got due to their motion, then make sure the court knows they used it to unreasonably block you rather than reasonably protect the children.

However, often I've seen my own case - where I did nothing wrong and my ex did multiple things wrong - be turned into halfway measures and partial fixes.  In my case, my ex started out in full control of temp custody and parenting and years later I'm still trying to get the court to issue an appropriate order, each time the court has only settled or order baby step improvements.  So right now your in-laws are in full control, be aware the court may be reluctant to do a full reversal but that's what you need to do if at all possible.

So if the court wants you to 'settle' for in-laws having significant involvement in parenting, such as being 'stand-ins' for absent or incarcerated dad, then beware.

Many have commented that it seems courts don't want either side to walk out feeling they were either a winner or a loser.  Some judges have even commented that if both sides are displeased with the outcome, then the judge did a good job.   I have concern that the judge could grant you reasonable parenting but yet still let the in-laws have some sort of foot in the door, so to speak, more than they would have had otherwise.  If the judge might try to get both sides to make a deal halfway in between with the in-laws getting far more involvements than they otherwise would have gotten.  If you can, avoid such an outcome or 'settlement'.

It's great that your lawyer is fired up and everyone is stunned at what happened, especially given the evidence. But keep advocating for yourself. Don't let down your guard right now, not when the stakes are so high. Pay close attention and ask lots of questions. Make sure they know they work for you, and not the other way around. Tell them they are not to make any decisions without discussing with you first, not matter how trivial the item. It's a good sign that your L is outraged, but don't trust any lawyer 100%. Lawyers cut deals all the time. It is their ethical job to represent you, and they perform that act well. But they also want to resolve their cases, and they may negotiate things on your behalf out of earshot in ways that aren't in your best interests. "I'll let Mr. LnL have this if you tell LnL she has to give up that."

I have a really good lawyer, but she has done things without my consent and I had to have a heart to heart with her early in my case. "You told me that this was going to happen, and it didn't. I came here expecting x but then it was y, and that threw me off my guard. Why was I not consulted about this change?"

Everything may work out great, and it sounds like things are all heading in the right direction. Just want to be that little voice in your ear that nudges you to assert yourself so no one takes advantage of you while you're in a vulnerable situation. You've been through enough.

   MERRY CHRISTMAS!  

So I went to my court hearing today and was very nervous. Initially, I was officially served divorce papers today. Thank God as far as I am concerned. So once my case was up, the judge called the attorneys for all parties into his chambers. Let me tell you that was one of the most intense fifteen minute periods of my life. When my attorney returned to the court room she winked at me with a smile. When the judge began hearing the arguments, he maintained that the order of protection remain in place as is, demanded the return of my daughter to me within two hours (with all of her belongings and at the police dept in my home area), and in open court chastised the in-laws for acting in "not the best interests of the child, but I don't know whose best interests you were acting in". It was a huge win for me. While I have to temporarily remain in state, I do have the window to present my case for leaving at a later time to the court. For example, when I get the actual offer for employment, presenting that to the court and being able to leave. The judge is more open to the idea that I be able to leave on the basis that the DSS worker recommended it due to his family's hostility.

So I am in a good place and now am dealing with some of the emotional fall out with my D having been confused by why I didn't see or talk to her more, the lack of her F being in the picture and confusion over what she felt was "unfair" time with the grandparents.


  AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS  |iiii   

  I GOT MY XMAS WISH   

Merry Christmas  

Congratulations O&C that's great news. 

Merry Christmas, O&C. This brought tears to my eyes! I'm all choked up and so glad you'll be with your D! Thanks for letting us know how things went, and that you're ok. Did your H appear in court? Be very safe and extra careful right now, the time right after an unfavorable court ruling (for him) is usually the most volatile. Your brother is staying with you, and coming to the police station with you?

Big   to you, and let the healing begin.

LnL

This brough tears to my eyes too!  Judges are largely good and fair when they find out what happened, but you never know if the right evidence will be presented properly, and whether you actually will get one of the bad judges.  I am so glad justice was served.  So did you get your daughter back?  Even two hours makes me nervous. 

This news has made my Christmas merry!

Love to you, your daughter, and everyone reading this.

She is back with me and we have had a great few days. Now getting into the unforeseen issues of daddy returning, missing daddy, sudden return and upheaval, not to mention the excitement of being home and for Christmas no less. She remembered my brother from the one time she met him over a year ago and has since fallen in love with him as a person she can count on. We did include MIL and SIL on XMAS, as they requested to come over and see her and give her gifts, while they were absolutely nasty to me, I am not willing to do this, although, I am going to consult a child psychologist to see if this is in her best interests to continue a relationship with them. Also, it was brought up casually that H should be able to be in her life as well, but that is for the courts to decide for now, not me.

Christmas and the surrounding days have been wonderful, it is still a dream to me to see my baby in her bed at night and I cant help but kiss her little head softly over and over before I go to bed, I have missed it so much.

Anyone have any good advice on how to broach the subject of daddy being gone with DV and RO in place, I am trying to tread very carefully here, but if there is anyone who has gone through this and understands the inquisitiveness of a four year old will understand what I am up against. She talks about him returning and how he "is gone for the winter", but I am not sure how to respond to her questions other than "it's grown up stuff honey". Very conflicted with this idea.

Lundy Bancroft wrote a book that might help you answer your D's questions about her dad: When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping Your Children Heal the Wounds of Witnessing Abuse.

Bancroft defines abuse as physical, psychological, emotional, verbal, so even if your D hasn't seen her dad hit you, if she has overheard him yelling at you (assuming he's doing the yelling, and not both of you), she is probably aware that there was abuse, even at age 4.

It changed how I parented my son, and made me feel stronger about leaving. When you end the abuse, it's a very clear message to your kids that you don't allow people to treat you like that. My T referred to it as "changing the script." Your D is less likely to get in an abusive relationship when she grows up. My son once said, ":)addy is probably lonely living in the house by himself." He said that a few months after we left. My response (not thinking) was, "He should have thought about that when he was being mean to us." It's hard to describe that moment in text, but it was one of the most honest conversations we ever had about the abuse. If someone is mean to you, there are consequences.

The trick is to send your D the message without having her vilify her dad. Some dads are able to restrict their abuse to the parents, and while their parenting might not be award-winning, they don't abuse the kids per se.

Anyway, Bancroft goes into all that. I'm sure there are other books about the topic, but this is the one I read and it helped me figure out how to talk about things with S12.

At least what happened might be good evidence to use in the future when you are working out a parenting plan or setting boundaries or whatever you need to do.  It is definitely hard with kids and their questions.  My older child is three and a half and asks to see daddy, etc.