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I don't know what has happened but I have woken this morning to tears and shaking ... I cannot stop the tears, the grief, the pain ... .it has all fallen down around me again.

I was just outside on the phone to my son and he came out to make a call ... obviously to a woman, and, I think maybe a new woman ... he has stopped checking the dating site for 24 hours which usually means he has located a victim ... .

I feel ashamed and humiliated all over again that anyone, ANYONE is better or more desirable than me ... .

Right now ... I just want a big red button to push to make myself evaporate ... I don't want to be me, I don't want my life ... I don't want any of it  ... and the idea that I will be 'over it' at some point holds little comfort.

He saw that I was upset ... I had to walk past him to get to my room ... he was on the phone but he looked directly at me ... did he come and ask what was up? ... of course not ... he is now pursuing this woman, whoever she is, behind closed doors ... .nothing matters but that pursuit ... nothing.

  DC 

talk it out here if you want.

Thanks Maxen ... but I don't know what to say ... I am hemorrhaging and I can't seem to quell it ... .

I hate him right now and I hate myself for giving s toss what or who he is talking to.

I know all these awful things about him and yet ... I care that he doesn't want me.

I am acutely aware of his need to collect and use women and yet ... I take it personally that he doesn't want me ... it's a sick little game my mind is playing on me ... .I see him, his illness and the buffers he has created to protect himself with perfect clarity ... .but I cannot make that last break necessary ... I think part of me believes that having false hope for love is better than turning away from it altogether ... .I am not even making sense right now

Not sure if I am having a breakdown or a breakthrough - also not sure if I could or can tell the difference.

Damage Control

The person he is talking to is not better than you. That person is just the next victim. I guarantee you that if he thought you were seeing someone or he left like he had lost control over you he would be working to recycle you. You don't want that. He is a piece of ___ who doesn't care about anyone but himself. He will never think of anyone but himself. He is a bottom feeder, the lowest of low life forms. You are so much better than him. He isn't worthy of you. F*ck him.

Thank you Waifed ... I needed to hear that.

I cannot help but think some of his 'calls' or the times he closes his door (he knows that I know that means he is in 'private' skype with someone - because, he did it with me) are designed to affect me ... then I begin to think that he probably doesn't even give my reaction much thought at all ... .and then ... just to keep up my own crazy internal monologue, I realise that it doesn't really matter.

He is a piece of sh^t  ... he can be superficially nice, but NOTHING excuses what he did or continues to do ... I don't care how much eye fillet he feeds me ... .every mouthful was like eating bullcrap...

And, he is a bottom feeder - he preys on socially isolated women - he even told me that - well, he said he 'was attracted to' socially isolated women but that is just self-denial talking ... they are easy targets to him ... and he has no shame in reeling them in.

He's an arsehole, a user, deceitful, manipulative and has little, if any self-awareness or empathy of the damage he does ... .and yet, I keep asking myself today - if someone who is so below me emotionally and socially cannot love me, what hope is there that someone who is whole and healthy ever will? I know it's a skewed comparison, but my thoughts have been polarised again (his speciality ... .polarise and confuse so the person doesn't see what is really going on).

You will find a much healthier person than him. You need to really focus on yourself and why you stayed in a toxic relationship as long as you did. It is really hard when you are addicted.  Self worth went down the tubes during the relationship but it will work its way back into your body. Mine is slowly starting to creep back and I have flashes of looking forward. I am also much more aware of people and much better at reading them. Life is good. We have just been brainwashed to think otherwise.

You will eventually come out of this and you will be happy again. He won't. He is stuck in this cycle for the rest of his life. How miserable is that!  You need to look at him with a ___ eating grin and just shake your head. He is not worthy of having you.

Waifed ... I am lost today ... my boundaries are absent, my need is apparent for anybody with a sense of smell and I am at the mercy of hormones, endorphins and the rather base sense/s of sexual heat ... .and, oh yes ... I a drunk

He came into my room a couple of hours ago for a chat ... after he left I went to the front yard to answer a call and he came outside and spent about 2 hours with me ...

I am so confused ... .

DC,

I am so sorry that you are feeling so low.I think we have all been there... .part of the joy of BPD.I am not normally in a position to give advice but I wanted to say this:I could have written your post.I have been on the receiving end of callous awful behaviour.My expwBPD behaved in the same bloody awful way.He never once had empathy for me.But in one "moment of honesty"(hahahaha) he stated that he enjoyed watching me in pain.It made him feel better about himself!You ex sounds so like mine... .a lying **** who is not worthy of your love.For so long I fell into the trap of craving any attention from him,any interaction that I could take as him caring.He fed off that and used it to continue his vile abuse.He could speak to me on a totally superficial level but once I introduced "adult" he would flip and turn everything round on me.They are sad,weak,pathetic people.All of us on here are worth more... .I guess we just all have moments of relapse... moments which are entirely understandable and come from the fact that we are normal so love and feel normally thus we expect to get those feelings reciprocated.Except,through no fault  of our own, we fell for sad disordered emotionally stunted people who fear intimacy so much they have to turn it into something to be mocked and abused.Hang in there.I know how hard it is... .I slipped today bigstyle... .all part of the horror I guess... .sending you my love.xxxxxx

Thank you NearlyBroken

I needed to hear that.

he has been in an out all night ... I have just comefrom the latest interaction.

Me: Are you happy?

Him: If I could get past the fear of fear i could be I think

Me: I mean, are you happier without me?'

Him: I fear emotional dependency, I fear living with somebody ... I tell people this and they don't seem to hear me ... .[I think he was talking about my replacement here]

me: We have never lived together

Him: yes ... but the constancy is ... it is just too much ... people expect other things ... it's just layers

Me: People often expect very little  ... .

Him: The fear is real

Me:No ... .actually, it's just a cop out. You are a cop out

Him (walking away) ... no ... .it's real

I was so disraught tonight that I contacted my (kids' Dad) ex of 12 years ago ... .he is still not 'allowed' to speak to me but told me that no matter what, he is here for me and gave me some times to call him ... every single ex - bar the current one, still had love and empathy for me ... but the current ... he takes what he needs and is in contempt of real emotion ... .he is emotionally bankrupt ... .a ghost of a ghost ... .

DC, please stop checking the dating site he's on. You've been doing it since you've been posting here, and it isn't healthy for you. You make assumptions based on it, that you don't know are true, and it's plain unhealthy.

I know you can't go NC, but to keep tabs on what he is doing online is just torturing yourself. It will be hard, but I think you'll feel better if you can stop yourself.

excellent choice of words, bankrupt. i think of my w the very same way.

DC -- I'm glad you shared parts of the dialogue you had with him.

I think you're making a couple of analytical errors that are making this feel worse for you.

First, you are assuming he knows what he's doing.  It is so clear from this distance that he is spinning and spinning & doesn't know what to do.  No configuration is making him happy.  It's like you want a final report card ("are you happier without me?" and he couldn't possibly give one because he is just trying different things, all of which feel bad.  He's still trying them.  Which includes coming to talk with you for hours on end.  You are also still something he is trying, if that makes sense.

Second, I'm certain that what he told you is NOT a cop out.  He IS afraid of emotional dependency.  His on someone else, someone else's on him.  When he said the fear is real and he's having a hard time finding someone who can understand that ... .I think you can take both of those things at face value.

If you were "staying" in this r/s, what the advisers on the Staying Board would say is that things would go better for you both if you could not take that personally and could validate his feelings.  Here, he served it up on a platter.  You could just say "I hear you that the fear of dependency is real for you.  I don't think I'd have done anything bad to you if you'd allowed me to come close, but I get that for you, the fear of that is real."  See?  You've lost nothing, but you two then haven't done further damage to one another by further failure to understand important emotional information.

That doesn't mean that validation will fix it or make him more able to deal with him fear.  But you two may do less damage to one another, given that he does have the fear.

With my ex: I gathered quickly & intuitively that he was freaking out about having a r/s with my kid and the engulfment associated with all that.  I told him we could have had all kinds of other arrangements, we didn't need to plunge into that as quickly as we had been because he seemed so enthusiastic.  But by that time, he was so freaked out that he couldn't hear or accept my offers to do it more slowly and incrementally.  He just needed to get away.  It's a panic thing -- it's so beyond reasoned choice that there's no way to call it a cop out at that moment.

The guy you're dealing with can be faulted for continuing to pull more women into a cycle with a very predictable ending, but he probably cannot be faulted for not just snapping out of it.  It's a lot deeper than that.  If you can let go of the idea that, if he liked you enough, he'd snap out of it, that would be good.  It isn't about whether he likes you, wants you, or whether you are the most compelling of all the women.  It wouldn't solve his fear.  In some ways, the more he cares about you, the greater the fear.  So "liking" or "wanting" isn't going to fix it.

The problem you have is that nothing at hand is going to fix it.  But you can stop making it worse for yourself by letting go of the idea that this about attraction or value.  He's in a closed loop where attraction & value cause emotional chaos for him.  They don't solve it, they cause it. And you can stop making it worse for both of you by practicing validation, which is healthy & calming for both parties.  If this comes up again you can say "I get it that you are really feeling bad in reaction to closeness.  That's got to be hard, especially if part of you also really wants closeness.  Sucks for us too, since I wanted that, too."  Again, you haven't solved anything, but you've made a safe place for both of your real feelings.

I too was checking in on my soon to be ex-wife's social media.  And I made all kinds of assumptions that would bring me much pain. Very often my assumptions were just that and I felt like an idiot for even imagining these things. I haven't looked at her "stuff" for almost a week now. I know, it's that "big red shiny button" that you just want to push. Don't do it... .please! Don't beat yourself up unnecessarily! Get that button out of your sight and mind. My curiosity about what's going on in her life is finally starting to subside, and I feel much better for it. My best wishes to you. Keep strong! Half the battle is in our own self-control.

Wow, I cannot believe you wrote this because it is exactly where I have been and probably where I will be again in regards to my BPDbf.

I felt this same exact way when he broke it off with me the last time. The night before he said he was in love with me... .made all sorts of promises... .and then the next day, I get a call from his number... .from a girl. She proceeded to state that SHE was his girlfriend and that I should just stop calling. All the while, he was next to her while on the phone with me. And, may I add, that this girl was legit "white-trash" and was known to be the "slut of the town." I was considered the fragile "good girl" who was gullible, niave and sweet.

I keep relaying this scenario in my mind, even to this day (I'm actually dating him again... .what was I thinking?) This time around he became enmeshed with me, I think due to the last girls who probably ditched him due to his behavior. But, all I can say is, don't be the woman to let men like this use you. They will seek their prey and you better believe that their next partners or victims will not succeed. Believe me. But if, and when, this happens with this "skype" girl, DO NOT allow him to come running back to you with proclamations of love, regret and promises. If one doesn't cater to his ego, then he will soon go back to the "good" one who actually gave their heart and soul to them.

Please be strong and learn to love and respect yourself. I still feel i'll never find anyone either, but we will. We just need to love ourselves first before we can expect anyone else to love us in return.

They all have the same color faded behaviors it floors me ! There actions don't reflect the least bit the promises that comes from their mouth, I just witness this with enormous pain this summers end after a come back filled with promises,love and the work over to top it all but sad to say that to this day I believe in a real breacktrough, that is my feelings overwhelming my cognitive thinking. Today when I was referring to this she twisted the whole emotional image and it hurts me so much, every day is a different emotion, feelings. I am really tired of having feelings. I am tired of crying all the time but have to make a schedule to hide. And some time I just can't cry. And I'm so afraid of falling for someone like this again one day. When I wrote to her today she wrote she stopped grieving in August, webroke up in July,? I'm still hereballing my health out .  Pfffff

what a selfish disorder

Jbt + TincanMike:

I am not trying to be defensive here, truly ... but just wanted to say that I check the dating website for the following reason only: to reassure/soothe myself that he is still actively on there even though he has a new woman ...

He leaves for work 2 hours before i get up every morning and I have access to his computer in that time if I want it ... I could actually log into the dating website as him and see who he is mailing etc ... but I don't do that, nor do I have any desire to. Not only that, but I could check his emails and browser history etc ... .again, I don't (well, I did check his email about 2 weeks ago admittedly) ...

I am not saying that checking his 'fishing' activity is healthy or that I shouldn't stop ... .far from it ... but knowing that he is still trawling was giving me relief.

To be honest, I am not sure it still provides as much relief and sometimes, such as the other night, it was a bit painful to know that he chose to go there over being with me even a minute longer - in fact he must have ran and jumped on the site - I felt like I had pushed him there.

I DO know I have to let this go ... I am less sure of how to.

Thank you both :)


P+C:

I feel a bit like a grateful apprentice every time you post ... and I am always looking for new ways to say thank you for the time, thought and energy you spend responding to my 'emotional soup'.

First of all ... I sent him an email this morning apologising for dismissing his feelings about the fear he feels. I simply said that I had no right to diminish his feelings and that I understand that it is very real for him (TY P+C).

I also explained that the reason I asked if he was 'happy' was because he has been telling me for weeks how UNHAPPY he is and how he is struggling to find meaning/purpose in what feels like a bleak landscape. I also said that I am sorry that the world is like that for him.

Second (third/fourth:P) ... you are right ... .I should not have said what I did ... but I have never, ever said anything to him like that ... not even on the days following him dumping me ... I was and am tired of hearing how tough/bleak the world is for him and how nobody understands his fear, no doctor, no psych ... and no medication is ever enough ... he is a black hole. It may be very real for him but he is a vortex that takes down everything around him into that black hole.

I was also drunk ... not extremely, I don't think he even realised to be honest. But, after the emotional roller-coaster that was yesterday, I am surprised I didn't say more (and grateful).

He came to me constantly yesterday, all day and all night - we all had a late night. He sought me out over and over - came into my room and sat with me on my bed when I went there, came out the front yard to sit with me (we both usually use the back yard for smoking) ...

You see this as part of his spinning. I am not entirely convinced. Sometimes, he seems to be really struggling with everything ... .sometimes I wonder if these 'struggles' are put on as part of his WAIF/PA manipulations - not just for/to me but to all women - you cannot ask anything of a man who keeps telling you how bleak and fearful he is about life right?

I don't know P+C. I'm not an expert, I don't really have that much experience and obviously, my point of view is skewed by my proximity ... .

I do know that I feel better this morning ... I got only 2 hours sleep and I have a massive day ahead at work ...

For some reason the post I wrote this morning (above) didn't 'post' until after I got home from work ... so, apologies to those who responded/answered ... i didn't see you posts until a few moments ago ...

P+C ... .just to let you know ... he didn't respond to my email ... lol ... why do we even bother trying to be reasonable? I should have let it go ... ppfftt ... f^ck it.

Weird thing: ... On the way home today, I kept getting this overwhelming sense of good/fun/light ... I actually stopped and said to myself that I was /am no longer in love with this man ... I am less certain of thatfact now ... but I knew, with every fibre of myself for at least 2 hours that I no longer Loved him ... perhaps it will grow ... perhaps falling out of love won't be as scary as I thought ... perhaps ...

Well ... I got up this morning to a reply to my email ... nothing wonderous or amazing in that but because I had posted that he hadn't replied, I just wanted to correct that.

His email once again paints his victimhood ...

It’s fine DC - everyone has trivialised my phobia at one time or another.

How can one understand something that one has never experienced?

And yes, everything is still grey and meaningless…

[insert stuff about the house/mates here]

This place and work are doing my head in, though I doubt it matters where I live... .

I don't thin I need to point out how utterly self-involved these are ... I have a bunch f these from over the past year - they used to end with him telling me that I was his only friend ... and they used to wrench my heart ... I'm still not immune

Amja:

Thanks for your thoughts ... I try not to think of being reasonable and understanding as being a doormat ... I approach things with the attitude that if someone is going to walk all over me because I refuse to put up emotional barbed wire fences then that speaks more about them than it does me ... most people (OK, men) don't get past the initial phases with me as I rarely meet men I am attracted to ... I guess that is why this one feels like I have been hit by a semi-trailer loaded with cement ... .I never saw him coming.

marinro7:

I agree ... I know that they are supposedly 'stuck' in emotional hell all the time and doomed to replay the same story over and ever without resolution etc ... I know that they supposedly suffer all the time ... but honestly ... my reaction to that is good! I hope you die alone and miserable ... I just cannot find the sympathy... perhaps if they looked, even for a short while like they were/as miserable as they and everyone else claims I would feel better ... but telling me that he is miserable all the time while moving on to my replacement immediately (and possibly already setting up her replacement) while I can barely look at another man ... where's the fairness factor in that? ... .why shouldn't I feel ripped off, pissed off and hope that he is forced to confront his own selfish behaviour?

Hey DC--I hope you didn't read my earlier comments as suggesting that you were unfair to him when you said his fear of closeness was a cop out.  I just meant to suggest that if you accept the truth of that problem for him, it might help to kill the malignant hope concept that if he wanted or desired you sufficiently he would cross the intimacy threshold again. He has a real barrier to that.

That said, I think your email to him was awesome & you can be proud of that. His reply is remarkably graceless (yeah, others have trivialized it too--not gee, thanks for bothering to clarify that & to validate my feelings). But that's OK, you can feel good about your piece, like you were explaining in the above post.

I can't see any reason to doubt that he IS spinning. He DOES value you & need you. That's very different than love, though, & his behavior is horrendous, destructive, unprincipledn reckless, unforgiveable.

YES! It will dc, it will grow. And 2 hours is quite a long time. Especially since you are still around this guy. I remember getting these small nuggets of reprieve, and initially it wasn't for hours, only a few minutes maybe where i felt this good, this detached. So having a few hours with this strength is a godsend.

The next time this happens--savor it. And remind yourself that this is the reality that you will be born into full-time. It will be, but you also have a lot of darker stuff to live through also.

For me I think the scariest thing is feeling that I was *always* going to feel terrible about it. And this can work you into a panic--like, it's really going to be this bad forever? It's really scary. But, because you are now going through cycles of feeling terrible, perhaps more often than not just feeling bad but it's manageable, and then having a few moments of full strength, light and happiness--well, just know that it's a cycle.

So, when you feel terrible--ok, recognize this and use this to practice being the best you can when you feel terrible. It's going to happen again, you'll feel terrible but hopefully will be a little less terrifying because you are now aware that this was going to happen, that you've been through it before, that you will also feel good at some point. And, when you feel good, then savor it. I used to thank myself, thank the spirits, hell thank everything when I felt these moments of bliss. And just promise yourself that you will remember this moment. Tell yourself "I won't try to hold onto you blissful moment, but I know you will be coming back!"  :) Corny, eh? But I talk to myself often.

damage control, are there things that you are doing, like meditation or working out or listening to music, anything to help with your emotions? do you have any mental or physical exercises that you've found helpful?

the reason i ask is because i will try as much as i can to dust off these exercises for myself as soon as i realize that i'm in a sh**y moment. right now i'm further along, so i have this prayer thing on forgiveness that i do in the morning time, or whenever i catch myself ruminating on my ex---but this is grad level stuff only b/c i haven't seen my ex in the flesh in over a year, see? so, well, i didn't want to mention forgiveness for you yet this is kind of a dirty word for you at this point. don't try this forgiveness stuff yet, though perhaps reading some theoretical stuff about it is ok though.

but, if you do have things that you do to help process your emotions--then try changing your perception when you feel terrible as an opportunity to practice. Practice letting go, practice channeling your anger, practice self-love or whatever it is that is needed at the time. ultimately this practice is not about making you feel better in the moment, so don't judge anything by if you feel better or not. really what you are doing is strengthening some mental muscles, strengthening your own self awareness, so that you'll be able to catch yourself before going too far and getting lost in these thoughts.

many times i would catch myself having terrible thoughts (good! i was becoming aware), and still i would allow myself to ruminate and sit completely in and with them because damnit i just wanted to be mad! and that's ok too, but each time you can practice at least being aware and choosing to do this, rather than allowing these emotions to choose for you. hope this makes sense, this at least has helped me a lot.

Damage Control,

THERE!  You have it!  Give this anger some energy.   USE it to detach.  And get free!

Here I'll help:

That sunnob*tch is a mudderfraking player from hell.  I'll Skype his computer right up his bass.  Calling him a piece of ___ is too good for him.  And as for preying on socially isolated women, that is so fracked up that he should be put in a mudderfraking trash masher along with the vomit of 1000 rabid dogs with ticks that are worth more than this arsewhole.

I promise if you repeat this to yourself 13 times, you'll feel better.   But you have to scream it out loud!  Otherwise it just doesn't work!

And when you're done, put the crap aside for a bit and tell yourself that you will be healthy after you kicked the sunnob*tch into the street! 

Be strong.  We're here with you!

d

P+C

No ... I didn't read your post as suggesting I was unfair - not at all.

He does have a barrier there - and he especially has it for me I think ... whether that is because he and I are recently split, because unlike his other exes I didn't/don't 'hate him' ... or for another reason, I don't know. I do find the switching off of sexual desire bewildering - I cannot get my head around having ANY control of that - being able to switch it on or off ... foreign concept.

Thank you for the comment about my email ... .I resisted replying to him even though I think it would be easy for him and I to slip into emailing regularly on top of seeing each other - we emailed and skyped every day for so long ... .

His behaviour is all that you say ... taken in context (ie: remember what he said and did to you DC) ... .his everyday behaviour is completely different ... well, by that I mean the behaviour he exhibits when it's just him and me hanging out talking and laughing ... .this week I have found myself having to remind myself sharply that he goes into his room to connect with my replacement/other women ... .his pathology is not visible through outward rage or drinking etc ... it's a malignant core that is sustained via secrets ... .it's very nature means that the surface is in direct contradiction to what is going on behind the scenes ... but I keep forgetting that and that is dangerous for me.

P+C

I did savour it ... I do savour it ... I will savour it.

I don't do any meditation etc ... mainly because my mind will just not shut down - no matter what I do, how hard I try ... that is just me.

BUT - my current/new job is such that I absolutely have to shut down for periods in order to function - some of my work is in live TV and you just cannot make a mistake or the whole country will see it ... it is the first time I have ever had something that forced my mind to stop .

I have a teaching background and even when lecturing to hundreds of ppl, my mind would be skipping around in the BG ... so, every day, I have pockets of hour-slots where I am out of myself at work ... it's a godsend and it helps me to find peace 90% of the time I am at work.

Practising emotions is good advice ... .I need to (re)learn to be me ... apart from the obvious stuff, I have no idea what I want or what it feels like to 'be me'.

Who am I without this relationship? Obviously I am still me. But, my identity was sutured to being adored by this man, this person who looked and felt (and still looks and feels) like my perfect match ... .as you say, I think I still have that malignant hope ... .that he will realise this and make the decision to be step over/around/through and reach out ... .

Thank you.

I tell myself this stuff and it helps.

I read about BPD and it helps.

I read about PA disorder ... and yeah ... it helps.

I KNOW this stuff ... I just need to internalise it  ...

I am not sure what is going on with him/me ATM.

Over the weekend, as I posted, he sought me out over and over ... I don't know if he was having a weekend off from my replacement and just needed company ... I didn't give it too much thought. He was actually calling out to me when he would come over

":)C! ... "

And, he would come rushing over ... a far, FAR cry from the man who could not sit still near me last week when I was trying to ignore him ...

Last night when I got home (late) from work, he came outside to seek me out again. We are having roommate issues ATM so, he began to discuss that and his paranoia came out to play for a while ... that's always a fun ride.

Then, we got onto film/TV etc which we always do and he had me in stitches recounting something he had watched recently ... this always happens - then I suggest some texts for him to watch and we get babbling and before i know it, it's been hours of talking ...

However ... .at one point he stopped and asked me what I was planning for Xmas ... I am pretty sure he was going to suggest I go with him to his parents' house for the day ... but he pulled back at the last second ... .no doubt to consider the invitation before he issues it ... .I could be wrong but, I got that feeling strongly.

As he was leaving to go to bed, he patted my thigh and said, "see you tomorrow" ... .as if both the patting and the expectation of meeting up were perfectly natural ... .I should have found the patting patronising ... .I don't know how I feel ... nobody 'pats' me ever ... I am not the patting type ... .it's like the slip up of calling me 'm'dear' the other day ... for some reason, he is more comfortable around me ... maybe time, maybe knowing that I won't explode or want to 'talk about' the relationship ... maybe because things are going well with my replacement/other women ... who knows ...

Luckily, I am back at work in a few ... and a tough day today ... while I am at home, these thoughts/ruminations/obsessions haunt me ... when I am at work ... I am free for the most part.

I long for indifference but feel it is far, far away ... .I also fear that my little trauma that plays out in this dynamic is sneakily thinking/hoping that she will 'seduce' this man again ... .I can barely let myself think that this thought is percolating in the background, but I think it is. 

DC -

Perhaps it would do you more good to post on the staying board.  Reading all your actions in different posts coupled with the fact that you are not wanting to leave the situation really points more to staying.  At least currently your decisions are that of staying.

I have asked you a few times about your plans for leaving. (And you have responded.) Pay close attention to your responses - it seems to be painted as not even an option. (There is always an option if you want it bad enough.) From what I can tell - that is the MOST IMPORTANT THING you should be working on.  That is the first step.  From what I can tell from your responses you have not even attempted to find other alternatives.  This speaks volumes.  You also haven't mentioned a plan after the few weeks left (I'm guessing still a few weeks and then you will have a SOLID answer from work?) at work.  Have you made decisions (aside from living there) as to what you will be doing in a couple weeks either way things go with work?

When pointed to the most important thing for your health (leaving) you seem to skirt around this entirely and choose not to spend any significant time to look at all to see if it is an option - you THINK it isn't an option.  You simply say leaving isn't an option for you and go back to posting about all that he is doing. It really looks more like you don't want to leave - you want to stay. 

There really isn't any help on the leaving board for this - at least not in the way that you are seeking in imo.

There is absolutely nothing that will help you at this point but you.

It is as simple as this - until you take time and make it a priority to leave (over anything else) and spend the time and effort focusing on making this happen - THIS WILL BE YOUR LIFE.

He is treating you like crap and you are not ready to leave.  You are putting your own hand in the fire and burning yourself over and over again. 

With every post I see at this point the only answer of help I can post is - You need to leave but you are not ready to leave him.  You are choosing this for your life.  You should post on the staying board imo.

I pray you stop burning the hell out of yourself.  Also, don't say there is no way out of there if you haven't even put significant time and energy trying to make that happen.  I think you know this is true in your own heart.

A true friend will tell you the truth.  I stayed WAY TO DANG LONG AND I BURNED MYSELF OVER AND OVER.  There is nothing wrong with you that you are struggling with this.  It's hard as hell.

BUT - don't fool yourself.  The only help you are going to get for yourself is to start putting all your energy and time to get out.  Until you are ready to do this - this is your life.  And there is not going to be any other answer that will make it better for you.

Hey DC... .lots of good posts here, from you and the responses of others.  I am being challenged and enlightened in many ways as I read them.

I would like to highlight one comment you made.  I struggle with this myself.  It is so curious to me because I say the same thing to myself.  In my case, my assessment of my ex is just completely wrong!  She really is not my perfect match because she is/was an ongoing source of pain and frustration.  And, might I say that your relationship with this man sounds like one that is unsatisfactory.  So, why do I, and why do you persist in the notion that this is a perfect match?  In my case, it is not even a good match, let alone perfect!  It is something to consider, challenge, question, examine.

But, my identity was sutured to being adored by this man, this person who looked and felt (and still looks and feels) like my perfect match... .

DC--I have really strong reactions reading about how your ex is acting toward you now. Reminds me so so much of how my ex was last year, when we spent a lot of time together as friends.  He was oh-so-slowly, oh-so-tentatively, trying to be intimate with me.  Like, sneaking up on it.  He introduced me to his daughter (girlfriends never meet his kids).  He met my dad & wanted to be introduced to a close friend of mine I was talking a lot about.  He gave me his favorite book growing up & was anxious to hear my reactions to it.  And so on.  All very important, significant gestures and hard and scary for him.

And then ... .

He suddenly moved to another city.

And then ... .

After a few months of continuing to communicate the daily details of his life by text like we were used to, he suddenly stopped that.  And now he's seeing someone else.

And in all of this, there is nothing I can say & no way I can object because the terms of our connection were "just friends" and he'd made clear he was deathly afraid of being "captured" and controlled.

I have no doubt your guy is exploring significant gestures like bringing you to his family's for Christmas.  But it's equally clear that he's terrified and squirrely and that there is no reason to feel you can count on anything in particular from him.  He'll come close when he feels like coming close, and you can't grab him or keep him.  He's a feral cat.

Can you do that?  Do you want that?

I thought I did, and I thought I could.  But that's when I thought it might build to something other than him just using me for the perfect closeness-distance cocktail before moving on.  Which, it turns out, is all it was.

I really feel like I know what he's doing.  It's a very dangerous place for you.

Hi Lady31

Leaving isn't being not painted as an option - it simply isn't one right now. I have only been working for a few weeks - have only had 2 paychecks and I arrived here with nothing.

I have to fly home to collect my dog and moving out - with the next paycheck will leave me another few weeks until I can get a flight ... .

Although making something a priority will indeed help, it doesn't wave a magic wand, nor does it make money or time appear magically - I wish it did.

I'm sorry that you think I am wasting mine and everybody else's time by posting about things that cannot be helped ... I also happen to disagree  - well about my own position anyhow. I have been helped immensely by this board - that doesn't mean that I am in position or frame of mind that I want to be ... .but, it has only been 6 weeks this coming Monday and I am reaclimatising to new job, new city and new state as well as the stuff with the ex.

I find what is happening with him confusing ... and I am struggling with how to deal with it and my conflicting feelings around it. When I leave, I don't imagine he and I will have much contact ... but that isn't the reason I am still there ... .this week, I am at work from 8am until 7:30pm as I am being raced through some training - which is the other thing - I am not just in a new job,, but a new career really and every single day is training from beginning to end ... it's not just 'going to work' ... it's ongoing learning all day every day.

No - I haven't made decisions about whether i am staying in this city (well, I will be but not sure ho long for) ... but, like many here, the breakup has knocked the stuffing out of me and I am not running on all cylinders ... .

I did want to add that saying 'there is always an option if you want it bad enough' is a bit simplistic ... .

Thanks

@Winston

I think that my other thread about 'not being special' relates to your question about why we persist with thinking/wanting it to be a 'perfect match' ... it's hard to think I was so very wrong about the relationship and him ... let alone my own perception judgement.

Plus, with my ex, on the surface things were good - we don't argue, we laugh etc ... his stuff is all hidden and P/A ... .

It's a hard thing to shake ... well it has been for me ... :)

P+C

Yes ... it does sound similar ... it seems linked to the idea of (us) being replaceable - I also think that, at least for mine, he doesn't 'get' that some things are intimate and private and that most people don't share them around with everybody ... so, he doesn't 'get' that moving on and sharing with the next woman is hurtful to me (or whoever it is) ... he feigns intimacy because he doesn't experience it in the same way ... he says he can 'really, really like' but not love, and i think that translates into this stuff ...

Mine to - deathly afraid of being 'controlled' or 'owned' ... it's just tedious right?

Believe me, I am not counting on him to build on this or thinking he will - he isn't just acting or being squirrely, he is squirrely ... or like a feral cat ... I like that

Contrary to the evidence on these boards (:)) I am not a total idiot ... I do realise that he cannot be trusted ... but I do have conflicting emotions about all of it.

Your time with your ex sounds horribly painful and drawn out and I just don't think I can do that ... every single weekend that he goes off to see my replacement floors me all over again and I want to get beyond and past that.

It is dangerous ... I know that - it doesn't feel dangerous, but he never really did, unsettling yes ...

I am not pinning hopes/dreams/wishes or anything else ... my mind kinda 'goes there' I have to admit ... but ... it's fleeting.

Thanks :)

Hi DC,

I’m not entitled to give advices, and I am ashamed to write about myself, but the 2 Waif guys seems to be soo similar, that it may help you if I share some of my experiences.

I cannot keep NC, and I cannot avoid meeting him. We live in a suburb near a town, it is a village where everybody knows everybody. He is our family’s friend, and we are connected in many aspects. Of course he depends much more on us, than we, he is a WAIF.

I’ve been recycled 3rd time last Friday.

I experienced that there were 2 periods of 6-7 weeks, when we had no intimacy and sex at all. Not a touch, not a kiss. Not even any kindness.

These periods were preceded by nearly-abandonements, arguing, telling him I don’t want to see you while you are dating with that girl, all because I recognized that he is chasing somebody new.

The 2 periods showed very much similarity.

He tries to get closer to me after a few days. I’m too deeply wounded and furious, so I reject him.  Through FB and and a very limited access to his e-mails I can usually figure out what’s going on, and as I told, it is a village. Plus, my husband meets him everyday.

2-4 weeks of cold silence.  After then he comes more often to our house, organizing mutual activities, spends more time with us, comes for dinner, etc. At that point I pretend that I don’t care too much.

During that time, the actual girlfriend is being seduced. The girl visits him as often as she can, they are continuosly chatting on FB,  speaking by phone (from MY kitchen, f***u).

After 6-7 weeks of no intimacy I recognize that his habit has changed a bit. He is joking with me. I joke back. He touches me a bit. He stays longer. The phone doesn’t ring so much.

And I find myself to be recycled.

After the first period, when we had sex,  I was too emotional because I missed him so much... , he frightened and dissapeared for further 3 weeks.  It was the time when I discovered bpdfamily. Then 5 weeks quite good.

The second no-intimacy period has been finished last Friday. I don’t know what would be the next step. I just listen and watch. And don’t show too much love…  He is much more comfortable this way.

As I see, he uses me to detach from the actual girlfiend, when she gets too close to him emotionally, they love each other too much, and the situation triggers his abandonement and engulfment fears.

He wants to keep me as an emotional backup. It can be a long time run. Not too close, not too far. Always there, when needed. Feeding him up, cutting his hair, talking until dawn, f***g, supporting him, only when needed by him.

And I’m always sick from jealousy, having pain in my stomach, drinking too much, working in full time and looking after the household.

Please don’t judge me. You cannot censure me more than I do myself.

Sometimes I feel some bitter satisfaction that he comes back to me from time to time.

Sometimes I feel some bitter satisfaction that nobody knows in the whole world that he has this disorder.

DC, I just wanted you to be prepared for this situation.

Your decision.

i am so sorry you're going thru this and i truly can't imagine how  painful it must be!

but, well at least he's meeting them on dating sites.  guess where my exBPDgf meets hers?  12 step meetings!  talk about people who are easy targets!  guess where i met her?  12 step mtg!  i thought it was kind and caring of her to approach me after MY FIRST(!) mtg.  after going thru 2 yrs of hell, i found out, from one of her previous ex's, that that her MO... .thats what she does!  she picks people up at 12 step mtgs!  he told me she did it lots of times.  he told me thats how THEY met!  talk abt twisted.


oh, spot on.  i asked myself the same thing. over and over.  i was in excruciating pain until, one day, i realized she didn't not love me because i'm worse than she is/sicker/etc, no quite the contrary, it was precisely because SHE is so sick that she couldn't love me the way i deserved to be loved.

i'm sorry i dont know the details of your story, but hope you are working on getting OUT of that house with him?  you are extremely strong to be to keep seeing him like that, but putting yourself thru hell.

DC -

I don't think you are wasting anyone's time on here.  Only that it seems like you are not really leaving or ready to leave the relationship.  That you are still trying to find a way to make it work and stay. 

I am basing that on the fact that you are still living there and not seeming to search for alternatives at all - as well as the decisions to stay engaged with him while being there.

It makes me sad to see this.  I lived with my exh for a time after we "split" because he wanted a divorce (again) and tortured myself too.  I am saying that if you are in that frame of mind (where you really want to stay) - you will receive a different kind of help on the staying board.

You appear to be beating yourself up on some level because you keep reengaging with him.  When I see those posts - I think - REALLY?  Why are you being so hard on yourself and why are you expecting anything different?  OF COURSE you can't stop that while living there and being in that situation.  I wonder what % of us leavers here that could have done that.  Betting slim to none.  You are fooling yourself if you think you can keep that up consistently on a long term basis - and you shouldn't beat yourself up that you can't.

So basically I am saying that all that is happening with you and to you is expected in your situation and it will not change until you leave.

I don't know if you realize with the state you are in how much of a toll this situation is actually having on you.  I know I didn't.

What is the long term plan for you? 

What will the options be with work and how soon will they come through? 

Can you not look for other house shares in the mean time? 

How much time will it be before you are thinking you will be leaving this house? 

Will it be 2 months, 6 months, a year?

If it's more than the very short term (couple months max), is it really worth your sanity & emotional health? 

If it's not, is there really no friend anywhere or family member you could go stay with to get out of there and start over and get on your feet away from there?

WOW girl - if you were my sister I would seriously drive across country if I had to and get you out of there and I wouldn't take no for an answer!  This guy is poison to your soul and you are doing so well trying to redirect and find a new path with new opportunities for your life... .time to cut him out!  Phew on him!

DC,

I read all your post on this thread. I had not read your story before. I have to completely concur with lady. I don't think you realize how much of a toll this is having on you and the longer you stay the more damage that will need to heal.

I usually wouldn't be definitive but your story sounds very much like mine down to how you describe your feelings toward him. Although my ex did these things on the down low.

I am going to be blunt. He is using you! And he is more then willing because you are letting him and he figures if you don't respect yourself why should He respect you.

Yes he may have fear issues and all that... .But that is no excuse for what he is doing right in front of you no less. It is downright cruel.

I'm with lady. I would come and drag you out of there if I could. I don't think there is anything more important than getting out of there. If the house burned down where would you go. Just pretend it did.

Lady31 and Iwalk-Heruns are keeping it very real. And I 100% agree.

DC, it's easiest for me to understands things in terms of emotional poison and transfers of energy. You want to know why you feel hatred, then depression and despite yourself you still feel a longing to this person? Because you are around him, and he's emitting this vibe and you are resonating with it. Have you ever swam on the beach in chest-high waves close to the shore? It's kind of like that. You can stand in waste deep water and I could say ":)C, don't move", and you could stand still while it was waste deep. And some waves could come and hit you and you'd be able to stand still. Other waves would sway you. Others would knock you off your feet. But i don't think I'd have to worry about you drowning, you seem to swim pretty well. However, this is what's happening to you emotionally -- this man's crazy energy keeps rolling in and it's moving you through all these places emotionally. Sometimes you can stand strong for a second but eventually a wave is going to knock you under till you're gasping for air. You've got to get out of the water.

I think these boards, this thread even could be a good place to start actualizing some real plans on moving out. Just like Lady31 said--can you give us a time line? 2 months *max*, i would drag you out of there too if only i could. and i might give yer ol' ex a taste of my specially spiced knuckle sandwich too

Does the idea of moving out bring up any fears? I know you're good at recognizing these things in yourself so just trying to see where you are at... .

p.s. damage control, I wanted to point out that sometimes I think you may be mixing my responses up with that of another fine patron of these boards named patientandclear -- we both have cheetahs as avatars and both enjoy helping you out :)


p.s.s. to understand why i like the cheetah, please refer to this video of Reno 911 cop explaining why he wears short ass shorts:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRCTk5GhSAU

 

Waver:

Thank you so much for sharing your story and your thoughts, it means a lot that you were compassionate enough to do this.

I certainly won’t judge you on any aspects of the story ... but you have my sympathy and empathy for what you are going through.

Like P+C’s, your story resonates for obvious reasons. I have never been recycled in the sexual sense and, given that mine shuts down people sexually (falls out-of-lust you might say) I am not sure that this would ever happen irrespective of what I do or do not want.

This is a pattern with him … get too close – lose desire for the woman. With his ex-before-me, he said that after 3 months he no longer wanted to touch her – they were together for 3 years with lack of sex being the main thing they fought about – he ‘punishes’ (very PA) women by withdrawing sexually and he also protects himself from being engulfed – it’s a win/win for him …  but not so much for the women in his life who go from being sexually worshipped to unwanted at the drop of a hat. His disorder/s play out in the field of sexuality for the most part – and this is because apart from work, he IS his sexuality … no friends, uncomfortable in social situations, doesn’t like going out etc ... he is left to his online fantasies for all of his spare time – it is almost his entire identity.

I certainly don’t want to end up spending months/years in this awful limbo … it’s easy to be ‘friends’ with him at the moment and as we are living in the same house, it makes life more comfortable during the week – of course I pay a price for that on the weekends when he goes off to stay with my replacement/s …

Thanks again … and please take care …

WOW Goldy, thank you for that.  I love our cheetahs even more now.

DC ... .I have a nauseous feeling reading these various stories of men wBPD tucking women away in this fall back caretaker role.  The guy I'm here about did it with my predecessor for about a year while he messed around with another of our mutual co-workers and then with me.  When things got painful and anxious for him with me, he went right to her & reignited their romantic/physical r/s, but she ended up being horribly misled about his intentions & commitment (she said she wasn't up for re-engaging with him unless he was willing to have kids & adopt her faith, and he hemmed & hawed about that for a while & then made it seem as though he'd make those commitments, only to pull out shortly after she was again "all in".  Now I'm in the place she was in (or I have been ... .I'm pretty definitively disengaging from my intimate friendship with him).  It's all just a big ball of betrayal.

@ucmeicu2

Wow ... 12--step pickups are a pretty low MO to have!

Mine isn't 'better' due to finding women online ... he uses the internet to put his best self (his written self) forward ... and to manage (read control) how often and when he is in contact ... and he only goes for women who are emotionally thirsty (and that includes me) and socially isolated.

You are right about them not being able to love like we want due to illness - I KNOW it's not about me, but it feels so personal ...

I think what he and I had was different to other relationships he has had - not because I am in any way 'special' ... but because I wasn't physically here so he could pour his time/energy/effort into me safely ... .I think had I not come here, we would still be in our 'relationship' (he was planning on coming to me for 2 weeks over Xmas. For that reason, I am very glad I came here and got my eyes opened ... .

Lady - I may not have been very clear about my 'staying' here ... I have no intention of being here for months ... and I am looking every day for share places but being able to navigate the city means this is a process ...

I have to do 2 things - get my dog and move out ... I found out a few days ago that I will be offered a permanent contract at work on the 20th of this month if I pass all my training OK and if I want FT work ... .I will most probably take it ... .So ... even though I don't always post about my plans/intentions ... believe me, I am thinking about them, I am just drained and finding it hard to know which way to go - get my dog and bring her here or get a place and then the dog - it sounds simple but my dog needs to come over as she has been in a foster home since I left my state and it is becoming urgent ... plus, I miss her. Thing is, I need to pay for flying to get her and the costs of moving out and I am trying to negotiate those funds ... it's a juggling act. But, believe me, I do not see staying here as an option ... and that is for a variety of reasons.

With these posts, I have this lovely fantasy of a bunch of folks from here in a large van running inside brandishing fists and knocking the ex out of the way and dragging me out of here ... it made me smile ... hehe :)

Hi ... thanks for taking the time to read the thread and chime in - it's appreciated :)

Sorry that you went through something similar ... it really sucks doesn't it?

I refer to the 'being dragged out' fantasy in my reply to Lady's post above ... hehe ... still giggling on that one.

Yes, what he is doing is cruel ... I agree ... flaunting the fact that he has a new sexual relationship/s was one of the worst things I have ever gone through ... my disbelief is still quite raw on that ... .I still don't really 'believe him' that he is 'no longer sexually attracted to me' ... don't get me wrong ... I am not in hope here ... I just cannot wrap my brain around the complete turn-around there ... blows my mind ... our RS was so sexual that it is a joke that this is how he chose to end things ...

As for using me ... you may be right ... I am not sure that I show a lack of respect for myself ... perhaps I don't but ... if I hadn't been., I am doing much better at it ... he has NO idea how I feel about him, how much it hurts me when he goes to see my replacement etc ... none. I act as indifferently as possible and I am as upbeat and 'friendly' as I can be to give him the sense that I am over thinking about him ...

It's not easy however.

WOW Goldylamont ... i completely did mix you up with P+C ... I am so sorry ... lol ... what a ditz!

I like your wave analogy and it fits very well ... right now I am just going with the tide ... not swimming back to shore, not even treading water ... .just floating I guess. I kid myself that it's safe water but ... if I can push your analogy - I do remind myself that there is a shark out here somewhere and just because I cannot see the shark's teeth, that doesn't mean he doesn't have them ... I still have the scars from my previous attack.

Does moving out bring up fears? ... Abso-friggin-lutely. Fears about taking that final step away from him ... fears that I will just be swallowed up by this huge city and become a worker drone ... fears that I am making the wrong decision to stay here ... fears that I will be completely alone every night ... his company may be contingent and problematic ... but it's company.

You also are invited to the fantasy I have had ... such lovely and caring people here ... we should all start a commune ... and grow stuff ... and ... uhm ... make clothes.

@Goldy ... ha! ... love the video ...

P+C ... I am worried for me that something like this will happen ... then I remind myself that he was very clear about his 'lack of desire' for me sexually ... and seeing that he is very self-sufficient in finding new sexual partners ... I can't see it ever being something I have to worry about.

That doesn't means that I am not in danger (I am) ... one of the things that worries me is that I have latent fantasies of re-seducing him ... it's not huge, it's not based upon a real desire/need nor do I think it is ever going to happen ... but it's there ...

If I could get rid of the sexual feelings, the others would be much easier to deal with.

He came and hung out with me again tonight for a few hours ... we even went back to his room to watch an episode of a TV show we talked about the other night ... I did an AMAZING job of keeping it light and disinterested in anything more that friendly chat (no easy task when he is lying down next to me on his bed) ... he kept up the engagement while we both made dinner and he made his lunch for tomorrow ... but, he went outside to the bin and I took the opportunity to come to my room. I didn't say goodnight or act like it was in any way weird to just walk off (and the Oscar goes to ... .)

My bedroom is right by the living room and I have leadlight windows in the wall that faces that room ... the other housemate has a terrible habit of turning the light on in the lounge at night and leaving it on - my room gets flooded with light through the windows and i keep getting woken up or, can't sleep ... .

The ex knows I cannot stand bright or overhead light in my room ... tonight, after I left and came back here ... he came into the lounge and turned the light off for me ... and didn't say a word ... .this was a 'caring' gesture ... letting me know that he was doing something kind and thoughtful ... and no, I am not reading too much into it - it has been going on for about 2 weeks with the housemate - and the ex knows this ... he sending me a message.

He is so very much better at playing mixed-signals/cat and mouse stuff than I am ... this caring 'friend' that I have can't do enough for me - cooking me meals, asking about my day, offering to do things for me ... .but underneath, for me anyway ... it's all very strange and disconcerting ...

He has not been on the dating site for 3 days ... I have shut down that window and I am not going to look anymore ... but he also doesn't seem to be online with women ATM ... he could be on the phone - I don't know ... it's just what 'seems' to be happening - I could be way off here. He also made a comment tonight about something he is going to do this coming Sunday - another signal that he is not going to see the replacement? An innocent comment? None of the above? ... .nah ... I cannot fathom him and I am getting better, at least during working hours of not even trying ... this is the pillow I scream into, the secret diary I keep ... the space I vent.

You all keep me sane and focused ... and I want to thank everyone who is posting here ...

hit the nail on the head here. to depersonalize it some--this is *exactly* what my ex did. we lived together for 2 months until she could find a place, it was the last month (which felt like years) where she started a new r/s and would take every opportunity she could to rub it in my face. she made damn sure i knew how "happy" she was, exactly when they were having sex, how much happier she was with him because he specifically had qualities that i lacked. we were even sleeping in the same bed until about the time friends told me she posted about being in a committed r/s (2 wks after meeting him). luckily, i bought *none* of it--and was easy to see it was all lies, especially when i met the guy (i felt then and feel now sorry for him). but at the time it hurt like hell that this person who i thought i knew, was using her sex to try and abuse me. and you know what? maybe it's b/c somebody used their sexuality against her and this is the only way she feels powerful now? combine that with being very physically attractive and you have a monster on your hands.

when i first started posting here i was using the terms hersexisaweapon and hissexisaweapon specifically to address this particular sadism linked to the illness. i'm no choir boy me-self  :), but i suppose going through this does make me realize that i do place high value on my sexuality, and i would never try and use it to hurt someone else. for them it's just par for course, ex to the next so to speak  

it feels personal now because it is being directed towards who you think you are now. but you are going to change into a completely different being and there will be nobody for him to put this stuff on as you heal.

just know that his behavior isn't even unique, or special or even as powerful as you would think. it's just cheap, and dirty and people around him pick up on this and feel weird and itchy b/c of it--same thing happened to my ex. people saying they would get nervous and shake just seeing her name. saying she was toxic and they felt dirty in her presence. and these were *her* friends, coming to me even though she already was 2-3 r/s past me.

and in fact come to think of it DC the thing that shocked me the most was hearing this from other women/plutonic friends of hers. i figured the guys she went through got abused, sure, but somehow she used her sexuality to punish both her roommate and her other friend. pulling them in and making them feel special just like with guys and then devaluing them and making them feel unattractive, lonely and dirty. it really was shocking back then -- so when i hear about your ex now, well, it's not so shocking. he's BORING--yawn. what a f*(&g dbag

oh and no problem about the mixup with patientandclear :) I am writing to you dc because you (like Turkish) tug at my heartstrings. It's because both of you are forced to live with your ex's after breaking up. and they are putting you through the same hell i was in with the lies and sexual "abuse". i keep wanting to tell you what to do--but pretty much you're already ahead of the game and doing it. so i hope that sharing my perspective will just help you out till you can get away from that shark  *)

i like your entire post goldy. there's one bit in it that goes to my situation and to yours too, DC:


i've had to face this summer/fall some of these behaviors; my T called them 'sadistic'. the term i used was 'sordid', and that's what i told my w, that what she had done was sordid. it feels painful to be on the receiving end of it (as i have experienced myself) but by doing what he's doing he's shown he's beneath you. emotions take a while to catch up to knowledge, it will continue to hurt, but anybody of normal maturation (like us here, or goldy's ex's girlfriends) who is told what is going on sees that.

[/quote]
oh Goldy and DC, i like this wave analogy too.  may i push it a little bit, too?  you reminded me of a long time ago when i lived in a tropical area.  whenever i went to the beach i always stayed close to shore but one time i decided to swim out farther than i ever had before.  i felt the sand-floor drop off under me and a few feet farther i felt it again.  i did that 3 times and stopped on the 3rd sandbar.  when i turned around i was struck with terror at how far out i'd gone ~ the shore looked so far away!  and i knew i was in shark territory.

but something worse than a shark happened:  the under tow.   it started pulling me out!  thank god i had just seen a show about it the week before. the trick to survive under tow is to swim parallel to the shore until you don't feel it, then you can swim straight in to shore.

that experience, swimming so far out, going out of my comfort zone/stretching my limits, knowing sharks were probably around, and the terror of the undertow gave me a strange mix of fear and elation.  it oddly reminds me of my r/s with xBPDgf!

many people die trying to fight the undertow, struggling against it.  but it's a force of nature not to be reckoned with.  accept it.  acknowledge it.  don't fight it.  work with it.  that's the only way to survive.  it's very zen.  it's Radical Acceptance.

i feel that's the only way to survive after a BPD r/s too.  for me, anyways.

DC,

I hope that didn't come off as harsh. Actually I hated it when people said that to me. I guess when I read your story I had a visceral response at the anguish that was kind of exploding off the page and it literally took me back to times I was in such extreme pain because of the the cruelness of his treatment to me. The person that I loved so much.

I guess because I have been out for 5 months now and have pieced together a lot of what he did that I just couldn't comprehend at the time and that is much clearer with distance and time I wanted to scream get out now. Kind of like when your watching a horror movie and someone is going to go in a room and your yelling" don't go in there why would they go in there! I sometimes forget what it's like to still be knee deep in it.

I am sure that you do respect yourself as I always felt I did but sometimes I think we want something so bad we forget about respecting ourself enough to not let someone hurt us.

I have equated some of my exes behavior as a cat playing with a wounded mouse. He seemed to get a thrill out of it. And I was letting him!

I was the same as you I could not wrap my head around the fact that my ex could have been cheating on me and abruptly discards me for someone else without a word. It was ingrained in my being that I was the one for him. He made me believe that but it ended up being all a game for him to boost his ego.

I sometimes worry that knowing about BPD actually made me accept more than I should because I rationalized that he had issues and didn't mean what he did and loved me. Part of me thinks knowing this makes us stay longer than we should. Personally I think the tools like validation... .are only for those who have to deal with someone for instance if you have kids together or it's one of your kids or if the person is actually actively seeking help and is self aware.

I tried to validate my ex and it appeared to work sometimes but I honestly have come to the conclusion that all that did was tell him I was on the hook and would accept whatever behavior he threw my way. He used it to his benefit.  It ended up completely backfiring on me and wounding me deeply.

Hope you are doing better today.

Hi again Goldy

I should say that when I say ‘flaunt’ I mean it was completely obvious when he apologised for ‘leapfrogging’ (from woman to woman … nice huh?) and because he was spending weekend/s away – obviously with her ... but he never talked about or bragged about ... not his style at all ... he wounds silently and with the skills of a PA warrior-king.

It hurts just as much because you are all-of-a-sudden not part of that intimate section of his life (etc ... we all know why it hurts).

I to thought I was a fairly amoral creature but I also value my sexuality and would never use it as weapon – actually, I would never intentionally or knowingly inflict pain or harm ... I have done things I am not proud of but ... they are the exception rather than the rule.

The sex thing makes me wonder ... he prides himself, well, his identity is actually sutured to his sexuality and he writes amazing erotica etc (it’s how he snags women online) ... BUT ... being able to or rather being driven to ‘share’ this with pretty much whoever turns up makes me wonder if they don’t really experience it like you or I do ... or if they ever will. There is no way he will ever find somebody more sexually compatible than he and I – he might find it again, hell, he may have already ... but ... he cannot have experienced the same way as me or, he wouldn’t need to change. I actually dislike the ‘new’ aspect of romantic/sexual relationships and would rather have a long-term lover I was comfy with and don’t feel the need for the-next-thing ... thank goodness.

Your perspective helps a lot - thanks :)

Exactly Maxen - sordid ... tawdry and just plain nasty really.

Iwalk ... you didn't come across as harsh at all ... I was genuinely asking myself if I am allowing him to disrespect me because I have very fuzzy boundaries and I don't always understand very well when somebody is doing that ... people will and do say to me that he is being disrespectful - and while i could see that as clear as day when he dumped me and went off for a date that night and then spent the weekend with my replacement, I am having a more difficult time seeing it now.

Don't get me wrong, I know and understand that this situation is far from good ... It certainly feels like horror film - in fact, I used that analogy in a different thread ... that he is a monster who masquerades as a 'real' person ... .


Ego boosting and accepting more than we should ... oh yes ... that is my experience as well ... I am still spinning from the fact that he just does not want me anymore ... it's like going to see a Disney film and halfway through Tarantino takes over and turns it into a bloodbath ... it makes no sense.

I am not really doing better - but thank you for asking ... it's Friday night here which means that it's the weekend which means that I have to be prepared for him being over at my replacement's house ... it still knocks the wind out of me ... that he chose and chooses somebody else ... i still don't get how anybody could have what he and I had or be what I was ... .I have to work hard to work through those feelings on the weekends ... .bogus as they are.

DC

There does seem to be a common theme here, regarding our expwBPDs sexual behaviors.   They use it to hurt!

I got this text (and others quite similar to it as well):

I'm being taken to Key West by one guy, another guy has taken me out to three very nice restaurants, another guy is taking me out dancing and the 4th is planning an adventure in KC... .yes I feel the need to hurt you as you hurt me.

BPD practically codified in a single text actually!    In fact it's amazingly honest in a weird way!   1st, she IS trying to hurt me.  2.  But she is also trying to say that suddenly her fantasy world is so much better since we ended our r/a.  3.   She is clearly desperate to find a new companion as fast as possible.  Typical, it seems, of pwBPD during a relationship ending.  4.  The overall purpose of this text of course is to devalue me.  The idea that suddenly she's happy is laughable.  Why text me in the first place if she was truly happy?

I give this example so that we can all see what the pwBPD are really doing.  It's truly sad (yet also completely inexcusable and inappropriate ) that we become the objects of such malevolence!   The key to becoming free and detached, is to look at whatever communication we get and see it for the hopelessness and desperation that it truly is on their part.   Evaluate their behavior.  Conclude they have a very sad and likely hopeless situation.  Take no more ownership of the relationship even as you empathize with their plight.

Get out there and live !   You deserve it. All of you deserve more.  Take back your life and mold it to what YOU always dreamed.  

Here's my response to the holidays.  I'm going skiing with an old student of mine in Denver.  Having dinner with a friend in Boulder, visiting with a cousin that I barely know in who lives in Denver.  Then heading to my parents to have Xmas with them and my nieces.  Then driving both of them to my Aunts house to party with them and their kids who are all coming there after Xmas for 5 days.  Then I'm flying to Bermuda to stay with a cousin there for a week.  Then heading back to my first college roommates home for a few days to celebrate my birthday and to give a talk to the medical residents that he supervises.

When I get home, I'm taking voice lesson and tennis lessons.  Audition for a summer musical.  I hope to be joining a meetup group that does improv.  I'm launching a new business idea while working on a new project at the university where I work.

I'm going to live the kind of life I've always dreamed.   Instead of some psychological traumatized fantasy world my ex had me in for 8 years taking away all my time in her time sucking vortex of need and fear.  

Come on DC.   Live your life.  Embrace the you that all of us can clearly see! 

D

Thanks for your thoughts and for sharing your experience TW

Mine would never send me a text like that. He shuts down that part of himself ... in fact, he needs and takes pleasure in having 'secrets'. So while I 'know' there is a replacement, and can see him going off to her ... it is never discussed between us ... it's just 'there': the big psychedelic elephant in the room.

We also have no real communication because we see each other all the time given that we are in the same house so, again, it's different.

I love the sound of your holiday plans ... I am a bit more stuck. I have only been living in this city for about 7 weeks  ... I have no friends or family here - they are all across the other side of the country. I don't have the money to fly home and really ... I have very little family to speak of, just my sons and they always go to see their dad because that is how it was when they were younger ... .I usually spend Xmas alone - my ex had been organising to fly over to me so we could have Xmas day together - this was obviously before I came here and this all happened - and I thought that for the first time in many years... I would have somebody to wake up to Xmas morning ... but obviously that is now also not going to happen.

I cannot make plans as there simply are none to make ... I don't have the funds to fly home - and home is across the other side of the country - and no real reason to either.

It was my birthday on Monday and besides a text from each of my son's ... it was as though it never happened. The ex and I were together for my last birthday and I figured he would know it was my birthday ... but he didn't ... he never bothered to remember it even when things were 'great' between us it seems - I know his birthday ... ppl in RS's usually know this about each other ... but ... seems I was not important enough for him to file that information. And no, he wasn't pretending to forget to be hurtful ... .he didn't remember.

I cannot just up and recreate a life ... .nor do I know what that life looks like. I have always worked hard to achieve 'things' in my life ... to create my own world ... but I am so tired of that ... and tired of doing it alone.

ucmeicu2 i love where you took our metaphor and i completely agree that you can't fight against these forces but need to work with and through them, and learn from them.

DC, the way your ex is behaving is passive aggressive, but very aggressive. it's important to understand this. I, like you, would never get a text message so straightforward as TakingWingAtLast had. and TakingWingAtLast that was a terrible message and confirms what many of us have gone through with BPD's purposefully wanting to hurt us for them dreaming that we somehow were abusive to them.

DC I oversimplified things when I mentioned my ex "bragging" about her new bf while we lived together. Nothing that she said or did was ever overt, it was very passive and this made it all the more crazy making for me. but i figured it out for myself by trusting my instincts. My ex wasn't obviously bragging about having sex with her new bf--she would always mention things only when we were getting along. She was always smiling and kind (sounding). I knew they were having sex when after a friendly convo about something else, she says to me "It's weird... .", I say "What's weird?". Her: "I dunno, it's really weird... .exploring another man's body. I dunno, just weird exploring another man's body after being with one person for so long". Smiles. Kind. TOXIC. And I've concluded she was doing this on purpose. You need to reframe your ex's behavior as passive-violent-aggressive in my opinion. I would read in bed a lot, my ex and I were still sleeping in the same bed. On TWO occasions she would grab her astrology book and read through it, marking pages and giggling to herself and smiling/friendly  :) :) :) :) :) Then she would leave the book open to the page she was reading and giggle and get up and go to the kitchen to make tea or something. Of course I'm nosy and of course I can't help but glance a foot over to see that she's reading and giggling about how sexually compatible she is supposed to be with her new BF. She used the same tactic on me when we started seeing each other, and it's fine for her to do this with her new bf, but you see she was doing it in bed with me, and giggling about it, and leaving the book open because she was passive-violent-aggressive. You see? and of course I could never confront her about it, she'd already have a rebuttal ready--"why'd you snoop around and read MY book you idiot?". it was maddening.

oh good grief DC i have so many passive-emotional violence i can tell you about during those weeks with her. but i figured this out first hand. i figured out that she was faking PTSD and as if she were scared i was going to physically assault her--she would use this to 'win' an argument after she said something nasty and didn't want to hear my response. and of course i would stop and leave at the drop of a hat if i felt she were scared so i'd leave immediately and go sulk on my own. honestly i bet she was laughing at me and snapped out of the act as soon as i was out of eyesight. even after we broke up she did silly things, she'd ask me for one of my friend's numbers even though she could have easily gotten it from them. so i'd give it to her and later the friend would tell me that they were trying to help set her up with a guy, who subsequently she never even called back. my friend btw was pissed at this, they really were just trying to help her out and there was no reason to involve me in this transaction: passive-revenge-aggression. just keep this in mind and trust your instincts. forget about any internal dialogue when you are around this man. if you feel anxious, then he's up to something. if you feel like shaking or you are visibly shaking then he's up to something. forget about the smiles and niceness you have to trust your gut instincts.

you always make me write so much DC i hope it's not too long. what i mean is the way you *feel* is reflective of this man's intentions towards you. trust that feeling over anything you could try to point a finger at, he's already a master at deception before he even met you.