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My mother made sure that she was never diagnosed with ANY mental issues - as far as I know - so labelling her uBPD is just my own idea.

However, many decades ago - long before I'd heard of BPD - I had figured out that Mom was an extreme Narcissist. That concept has been coined since at least the days of the Greek myths. Yesterday, I was surfing on the Net and discovered a whole lot of websites, and a whole subculture, around "daughters of Narcissistic mothers".

A couple of years ago, I read Lawson's book about Borderline mothers - and found it helpful and validating. My current thinking is that dear Mom was both a Borderline and an extreme Narcissist - surely a very common combination.

How do others at this Forum feel about distinctions between BPD and Narcissism? And does it matter?

I am pretty sure that my uBPD ex and dBPD mother had both.

I think that borderlinetype narcissism does seem markedly different from 'true' NPD in that true NPDs appear to be less emotional and unstable.

I've heard that the narc type of borderline is more common in men, perhaps because gender stereotypes make it more likely that male emotional instability will be expressed as grandiosity.

My ex was highly narcissistic as well as unstable, projective, demanding, etc. Thought he was a music genius, promoted self constantly, lectured me morally (with nil justification believe me :)), was quite astonishingly hypocritical. On occasions he would rage at the worldthat failed to recognise him. He demanded a sort of worship from me and would deliver long boring speeches I was supposed to sit and nod at.

Mother was less directly self-aggrandising but utterly insensitive, status obsessed and self obsessed. Also very greedy and materialistic. All my achievements were taken as her own while no praise was given. I was expected to be perfect at all times and denigrated, mocked and punished heavily if I was not. She still completely lacks any empathy or real sense of the boundaries between herself and others, despite being a counsellor now!  lol

Hi Delusional

I totally empathize with what you say about your Mother - and how she claimed your own achievements as her own.

Did you also get that mixed message that a lot of Narcissist parents send out: they want you to be perfect, but they also don't want you to be more successful than them? I was reading recently, that such competitiveness will often manifest when the child becomes an adolescent. In the most severe cases, the parents actually sabotage their children.

There's a lot of cross-over between BPD and  NPD.  I'm sure my mother, who has refused counseling, has both.

I've about halfway through a book that might be of interest to you.

Its called "Trapped in the Mirror" by Elan Golomb. The Lawson book was tremendous, this book is on par. My uBPDm is a narcissist and so was the author's. Lawson's book was a revelation to me, Golomb's book has had a different impact. She blends personal feelings and memories with professional experience and uses several case studies of different kinds of "children of narcissists". I pasted a link for you.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0688140718

-Cheshire

Yeah, I've also read there seems to be a lot of crossover.

Mental health is not black and white like physical health. It's not like you broke your leg or you didn't (well, even in that case, you can break your leg completely or just a hairline fracture, etc).

I've read that personality disorders are on a spectrum (like they often say of autism). It's not that you have one or you don't, it's that some people have one more severely than others and some have it more mild, some don't actually have the disorder but have tendencies (like, unfortunately, those of us raised by PD parents often do) and some have multiple personality disorders at the same time.

My old therapist did tell me that my mother sounded NPD but she also said it's very rarely black and white and just one PD. And she also said there's some overlap between NPD and BPD

My mother certainly is. I also have a sib who is.  I'm going to buy that book.  Thanks for posting a link.  

Here's a paragraph from "Trapped in the Mirror - Adult Children of Narcissists in their Struggle for Self" by Élan Golomb PhD

"We can use techniques to become our selves and to develop the self. Techniques are different from the roles our narcissistic parents assume to cover their footprints so that no one can follow and evaluate them. If recognized as they really are, they expect further damage to their egos. Only a perfect image is safe. Roles help them avoid detection but a role will not help the self to grow. Their roles depict greatness but hypersensitivity to the smallest sign of nonappreciation reveals profound and unadmitted doubts."

Good stuff... .

I am speed reading the book and amazed by every sentence. Wow.  It all makes sense now.