BPDFamily.com

Happy Christmas?

Well, I think I speak from the heart of the majority here that the festive days are something we look forward with expectation - often uncertain and fearful ones too. Even in the best of times with healthy people there is a potential for drama. As drama is our often daily companion for us these days are even more special   How we wished it was different.

One way to make it different is employing validating communication. It simply boils down to careful listening. But we humans are prone to stumble, particularly as we are blind-sighted for our own follies.

So this festive clinic deals with all questions around validation, invalidation and SET.

• What do you dread to talk about - but feel you need to voice raise regarding planning, relatives etc.?



• Where are you uncertain how to react - but know your partner will prompt you to respond to?



• Discussion topic always running in circles - do I run or do I talk my way out?



• You take a risk and you happen to say the "wrong" thing? It is not liked at all! - How can you recover?



• The Christmas tree is burning - Is it invalidating to interrupt him when he is unwrapping his present?

To break the ice let's start with:

     "My wife is getting more and more agitated. When coming home with the food to stock the refrigerator she has even thrown peppers on the ground. I have supposedly bought the wrong colors or size or shape. How do I stop her?"

What do you think is going on? Or just share your bigger or smaller communication worry pressing down on your chest?

I have at least 3 family functions scheduled during the festive week.  Myself and my uBPDbf are off of work for the 2 weeks.  One of the functions is my extended family.  I enjoy attending these events and would like him to join me. 

How do I approach these topics without causing stress/confrontation?

Do I offer a choice of attending, specifically the extended family?

If he chooses not to attend, which I am okay with, how do I respond that I will be attending without him?

Hi Ycul,


you got a lot of the basic facts lined up here nicely. |iiii So let's try to look at the finer details... .

The catch-all answer to how to avoid distress during information sharing is S.E.T.  :). But are you simply sharing information or do you want to do something else here?

  - SET - share info that this event is happening. Using SET in that way is ok. but unless you also share that you want to attend it would be passive aggressive. So when using SET your intentions which are critical facts must not be withheld.

  - DEARMAN - not applicable as you are not looking at pushing for behavior changes driven by past behavior.

  - TOOLS: Being Assertive (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206736.0) would be another option. Using that would ensure you avoid being too passive (SET) but might be too pushy in some cases.

which pattern to choose depends a bit on where he stands with respect to your plan.


Do you have full control of his decisions? If not is it up to you offer a choice?


Well, it seems it is his choice in your mind eventually. This is an important aspect as one needs to demonstrate respect of his decision making to avoid invalidating him.

It is excellent that you put some thoughts on his choice down |iiii. It is quite important to be clear what sort of situation you are going into. Based on what you said it is not going to be a negotiation where a compromise is sought but it is going to be a black and white decision by him which you seek to influence. It also sounds like you have made up your mind what you want to do and you are not seeking input from him on your past decision. A decision he still needs to be informed of and which might cause a surprised reaction.


It helps to be clear about your own emotional side. The more clear you know what you feel the easier it to avoid assuming the emotions on the other side and truly see them.

How do you feel about approaching him? What EXACTLY makes you reluctant to ask for it? What do YOU fear?

And last and not at all least - this is the heart of the matter - one needs to see where he is standing:

What is your current best understanding of his biggest fears and doubts with respect to you approaching him and your plan?

So I said something today how we have stuff with his family on the 24th, mine the 25th, then my sister is coming in from out of town, that is the 26th (cuz my daughter is gone on weekend), then the extended family on 27th.  I told him I know it is a lot and frustrating and that he doesn't have to go on the 27th. And that I won't ask him to do anything from the 27th to after Jan 3rd which his end of vacation. That didn't seem to matter.

He was upset stated "I don't understand or know how frustrating it is... ." I said I tried to get things spread out, etc.  He said "oh, but I'm gonna go to the extended family... .which I said  possibly, but he doesn't have to go." I tried to validate I know it is a lot.

I don't have a problem doing all this, but he does.  He even tried to claim he limits his family stuff, which is BS. And I sort of called him on that. I said "your mom doesn't say anything to you." 

Because my sister lives out of town we are sort of dictated by her schedule.

I hate that he is trying to restrict me and make me feel bad. And then states I don't understand because of being an educator and have school holidays off. 

BPD husband brought up yet again a recurring major issue with him, that he feels the need to tell his daughter the truth about his marriage with her mom, mainly he wants to spill the dirt he held in for her whole life now that she is adult. (26)

He tried to a few times this past year and she stopped him. She told me she is setting boundaries with him. Doesn't want to deal with his negativity in her new marriage.

So tonight he brings up few days before Xmas (no surprise here) that his life is ruined because he can never tell her the truth.

I try to listen yet again (for the zillionth time) and say to him what if you can never tell her what you want?  Do you think you can find a way to live your life without it? Answer NO

I once again try to talk into counseling to which he says I tried that didn't work.

I don't know what to say to him. I empathize that I know he feels hurt but that he needs to find a way to live beyond her.

I didn't have a clue when we retired here 8 yrs ago he would spend his days ruminating over and over about her.  I didn't know what he had in the city and thought it was his job he was angry at so I encouraged him to retire. I thought he would be happy but instead he has regressed to wanting to die. (No plans ever so I am thinking it's mostly for attention)

Part of me thinks I am getting codependent and overly mothering him and part of me wants to know what to do?  I am starting to resent my life with him, hard to find joy living with such a Debbie downer all the time.

Hi Ycul,

good you tackled the conversation head on  |iiii. It is tempting to delay for too long and ignore the elephant in the room. Such rooms are never cozy.


Can you see how he voices frustration and you try to fix it? This is not really validation - this is being helpful in a practical manner, exploring compromises etc... Being helpful when not yet having a grip on the emotions can backfire as it signals you don't hear the overwhelming frustration but want to argue the frustration away (which would be invalidating). A more validating reaction would have been to acknowledge (again maybe) that he does not like to go, does feels forced to go that he feels controlled by the external schedule. It may be even ok to take side in that a schedule from your relatives imposed on you (as a couple) is not great situation (even if it is a fact of life that sister has harder constraints - and it is no biggie - one does not have to like that).


Sounds like he has a lot less vacation and is more constraint - that is true and validating it makes sense. He probably needs to hear it often to feel you heard it. He may well be a bit envious of you - whether justified or not.


So the leaving time is now approaching. Do you have a clear and communicated schedule when you leave?

If he is coming along - do you know how he feels when going to meet family?

If he should stay - do you know what he fears when staying back home?

Hi nodoover,

my pwBPD is ruminating - that is  a new one (but I suspect a quite common one). Sounds like you have a grasp off his emotional state  |iiii


That is not validation, this is problem solving. I know, it is SO hard not to do it. We codependents are all soo helpful and it is working against us... .


Your H is obviously stuck. He has a problem (wanting to communicate something) and an unreachable solution. This of course is a situation which is distressing keeping him from thinking clearly and selecting another workable approach to deal with the core problem - feeling not so well about his past and the relationship with his D. The past/relationship problems are projected into the "get it off the chest" solution. The fact the the solution is unreachable is frustrating and the feeling of frustration is dysfunctionally comforting the pain at his core.

Tough situation. What options may there be to ponder?

We have this workshop TOOLS: Dealing with ruminations (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103396.0). You may want to take a look at it whether anything useful is in there. It is however more aimed at people trying to deal with ruminations while your H sounds more fixed on a particular solution that is out of reach. Another relevant workshop may be: Are you holding on to fantasies about someone who has hurt you? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=157309.0) which may be helpful to get some feel for rumination underlying thinking. Last but not least it may help to take a look at the LESSONS OF THE LEAVING BOARD (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0) which outlines the detachment process from a past relationship - a process which possibly has not been fully concluded for your H yet.

I found this book quite useful to deal with my own ruminations. The Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook - Glenn R. Schiraldi, Ph.D. (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=213669.0) If he is a reading type he may find some approaches that will help him in the self help part of the book. And if he is ever considering therapy while it does not cover BPD therapy it does cover a range of choices which helps to formulate some opinion. PTSD has some overlap with BPD in terms of symptoms and underlying mechanisms, is less stigmatized and he may relate to it as he is struggling with dealing with past trauma.

He could also try to write things down. That way he communicates it to paper but she does not have to read it. Or does not have to read it now, maybe she has some interest to read it in the future. Both sides get their choice.


It is clearly bothering you so thinking about how you limit the support for his quest may be in order. It is an unsolvable problem and of course a little attention to it is needed. But it is also his quest (bottomless hole) and you can't problem solve or validate his way out of it.

When validating it may help to focus more on the core of the problem - him feeling depressed, relationship to D, feeling old, past pain bubbling up - to raise awareness rather than his solution (indiscriminate dump). Establishing smaller, intermediate and reachable targets for e.g. relationship interactions with D may be also an option.

Faced with intractable problems we need to take a step back and think out of the box. Your current approach is tiring you out  . Suggestions above may or may not help but all require energy. What is critical is proper self care and boundaries/limits. Even if you can support a change it will take time. So for these festive days maybe do something good for yourself first  

So I compromised and said we didn't have to go to the extended family. But he has been a complete Scrooge to me.  I cleaned the house & cooked & cleaned up for his family on Xmas eve and he was an ass to me that night.  I cooked breakfast Xmas day for him and I before our kids came over. Still an ass. I left him alone till leaving at 3ish for my parents and he was a whole other person there. Then today again silent until 10 minutes before leaving and how I didn't do enough, I don't understand... .oh and the clincher "maybe if my parents are alive next year we can do things with them twice."  Which in all honesty I'm fine with... .he is the one with the issue. I love christmas and he makes it horrible because the focus isn't about him.

I would do all the family stuff by myself but then he has a problem with that too. He wants to sit and stare at the tv or sleep and I should just sit and watch him.  He doesn't even pay attention to the dog when I'm not home. The dog goes in a whole different room when he's home alone with him, to wait for me to come back. And it's a lab who loves people!

Sometimes one has to compromise. But it is good that you did not let him isolate you.  |iiii Often it is the insecurity and fear of going out that is worse than being there for the pwBPD - so when faced with reality he was just doing fine - which may be useful to remind him off in a similar situation.


Lovely clincher   He sure got the point across that he feels dragged to an execution.


There may be more behind that not being in the middle. He showed at least some concern about his parents. Making a fuss when leaving the house and not wanting to meet other people are often signs of anxiety and depression.


So he does not like you doing family on your own, he is watching TV and this is holding you back? Understandable to some degree as he is demonstrating his dislike but still... .Maybe think about values and boundaries - what you need and want to protect and what is less critical. One is otherwise tempted to forgo valuable experiences up for short term peace.