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After finding out last weekend "mommy didnt come home last night from a x mas party" from my son.  I called her every name in the book.  told her mom and dad what she did and told her dad I was gone for good... .done.

I have had NC since Tuesday of this week.  well "hitler" calls my mom today and invites her for coffee tomorrow after my s (8) basketball game.  she told my mom (the same woman she hated soo much te past 2 years and tried to isolate me from), that she needed to get some things off her mind... .

what the heck is going on here?

It's most likely an attempt at punishment for talking to her parents.  Along with trying to turn those closest to you against you.  My exBPDgf messaged my mother after we broke up with stories of my deep depression and her fears that I might hurt myself or someone else since she was no longer in my life along with a number of other lies.  It's a really sick game they play.  If I were you I would ask your mother not to go.  Nothing, nothing, good will come of it.

i see.  we are ALL just really worried and walking on eggshells before x mas.  we think we need to cater to her so we will be able to see him wednesday... .that's all

Sounds familiar.  I have been separated from my husband with very little contact for 4 months.  He still comments on and "likes" things my family members post on Facebook, many of them he has never even met.  I've noticed the ones he's drawn to the most are religious posts about being a good person and how to forgive someone who has wronged you.  I have no doubt if your mother agrees to this meeting she will hear all about how your wife is trying to do the right thing and support you but you've been so mean to her lately and she doesn't know why and can't understand it.  

I didn't realize she had control over that, my apologies.  That's a very terrible place to be in.  I can understand you having to bend a little for the sake of your son and being able to see him.  If your mother does go, you need to make sure she is very informed on BPD and the possible actions someone with it can and will do.  My guess is that your ex will lie and attempt to manipulate your mother.  This could take any number of faces.  Crying, playing the victim, playing the concerned second party, anger, etc.  The tactics depend on the person, but I have no doubt the end will be an attempt to punish you and turn your mother against you.

i will let her know.  but i don't know how she could punish me any more now than what she has done in the past

god, i hate fer f in guts

She may or may not be able to hurt you anymore then she already has, but she will sure as hell try. 

Forewarned is forearmed.  The more you can explain the situation to your mother and the disorder that your ex has, the better.  Basically, your mother needs to go into this knowing the most likely everything that comes out of your ex's mouth will be a lie and/or manipulation.  You might point your mother to these boards so she can see some of the experiences others have had when dealing with pwBPD.

thanks, ya'll.  at work right now.  so can't talk much. could this be her chance to try and leave the door open for the future... .if so, i hope i get really strong for when that day comes

thanks everyone... .i really appreciate ya'lls help

A very tricky situation. I feel for you, arn131arn.

Mr Fox sums up the context and likely outcomes well, I think. If your mother refuses to see her then xmas will probably turn into a battlefield, but if she sees your mom she will blacken you and paint herself as the victim, and sprinkle a few twisted half truths/lies into the conversation for good measure. Lose-lose, unless your mother can handle it with diplomatic detachment and see it as a means to an end. Does your mother know about your wife's disorder? Understand BPD? Can she cope with all the cr@p that will surely come out of the meeting?

Best wishes to you, your mother and your son.

Time to be strong arn. I'm with you. Listen... You should play this cool. You are in a struggle right now. She isn't your friend anymore. The sweet little lady is not at all what she seems. She is trying to place all blame on you and make you look like the crazy one. It is of the utmost importance right now at this very moment that you make no reaction or communication. She will attempt to smear you to anyone who will listen. Any overt reaction to this by you will give her huge amounts of satisfaction and will let her know how to hurt you even more. She is trying to produce a reaction from you. If you don't react it will send her into even more devious thought. Trust me, your best response is no response. Your mother will consider the source. This is where it starts to get real sporty. The best way to win the game is to don't play. Please remember that you can wrestle with a pig in mud for a little while before you realize that the pig actually enjoys it.      

This is her chance to f@ck you over again. You might think about setting a boundary here... .Your family is all yours and her family is all hers and never the twain shall meet.

If your mother is determined to go because she has given her word, I would be taking time off work to go with her. Remember that pwBPD are capable of doing things that you and I can't even think of.  Hope it works out.

Thanks everyone.

My mom is an executive at a major Fortune 500 company.  Probably a top 5?/ Who knows.  She's know idiot.  She hates what she has done to me and what she is doing for my son.  She is no fool, and has been telling me for years to watch her actions, don't listen to her words.

I cannot believe the anxiety this has caused me all day. The second I got out of work, I left, passed by her house (she was not home), hoping to see a glimpse of this "new" guy. 

I then fell into a depression the whole ride home, wondering who she was with on a Friday night, who she will be spending the holidays with, new year's, how long will it take for her to marry this guy, he's probably not in school and has a nice car, and makes MILLIONS of dolars, blah, blah, blah.

I hate this feeling more than anything right now... .I really do.

Arm, before I start i want you to know that i truly understand all this you going through,it is painful,stressful,overwhelming... .it is just an unbearable moment in your life were little or no issues can be think straight, you may feel you see life through tunnel vision and thoughts of all this ordeal keeps playing in your mind over and over, I know and this is really baffling.  This is my objecting feedback to you .

After reading your posts it is clear that you are dealing with a lot of pain, but is also clear that you might be of impulsive nature like many of us here, I myself tend to go there but I have acknowledge this and cope pretty well but been in stomps before were I just thought it was the way to deal with life

In order to go through with your life there is a great deal of maturity and respect that you must acquired. Mind yourself that it's your desire to end this relation. These are your words. Remember  I told you that now its about you, BPD or not. Your recovery is about you and not your BPDex, going at her, calling name because of so and so and so won't bring anything positive here, these are impulsive behaviors that can only set you back. How come your son gave you this information? Its really tempting to interrogate our kids in an early phase of a break up thought it's nasty for them, they must not be in the middle of all this. Remember that ,from what you say, mommy is BPD, if so her lack of emotional immaturity might lead her in those type of behaviors and someone has to protect their boundaries and teach them healthy behaviors ... .Daddy,this is your job... .you know she can't cope with this, i mean she is punishing you by not letting you see your son. That's no knowledge of respect for other and an absence of maturity . Telling her dad and mom !what the heck are you in preschool ? You need validation from them?even thought the behaviors have fu£ed with your mind, you know the facts, what did you tell them ?that your son told you mom so and so? About  the name calling, tell me that the kids weren't there! You've got to relaxe Man look at all this from a perspective analyse and weight the importance of situations,words, feelings name calling, especially to a BPD won't make a god danm difference . Sometime its better to stay quiet, take a deep breath, and go ppffff!an not engage in an aggressive manner, this is self awareness  and those kids need a role model who can teach all this. One thing at a time, you can't rush happiness by impulsiveness. And please, Chanel those cheating though and presumptions

Please take the time to read every article here and understand BPD fully so you might start healing. The new guy is not your concern. Yes, he might be a millionaire, he might not.  So what?  Maybe it was a drunken one night stand but why bother yourself about it?

Your concern is maintaining a positive and healthy relationship with your child.  The only way you can do that is to start working on you, understanding BPD and not worrying who she is having sex with or how much money they have. 

Once you rise above her you will not have that horrible feeling of depression you had today. Good luck.

Arn... I just want you to know... .Everything that you've done so far is exactly what myself and a bunch of others here did too. This crap... Depression,anxiety,stalking,comparing, all this is part of a process that has begun. There is not much that you can do about it. The only real thing that you can do to change anything is change the way you look at it. It isn't easy when its fresh like that. It's like having open heart surgery and getting up and running a marathon the next day. It can't happen overnight. You a correct and I concur. It does suck. Believe it or not... that's ok... .For some really beautiful reason,the pain is mandatory. You can't do anything about the pain. Good news is it will stop. It takes time and even therapy didn't stop the pain for me. It really helped but it did not stop the pain. I still suffer. I am way better. It's not as intense and I don't cry every day like I did for about three months. I haven't cried in quite a while. Yes. I understand.

Thanks ya'll.  I guess I needed that

A few things:

1.) I NEVER questioned my son about where his mother was.  I asked how he was doing, he said "good. I slept at maw maw's last night bc mommy fell asleep at the x mas party"  I will NOT drag my son into this nor make him feel torn.  I won't

2.) I DID HOWEVER, call her dad and told him.  I DID go by her house tonight.  AND I DID call her a no good baby killer.  AND when she woke up in the morning she was still going to be a BABY KILLER! AND that EVERY mother___ing morning she awoke, she was still going to be a MOTHERF***IN BABY KILLER! And no my son was not there

RIGHT? Hell no!  EVIL? Hell yes!  That's where I was at the beginning of the week, I am NOT proud of it.  I even feel ashamed, and it will take me a LONG time to forgive myself for that one, but hey, my P told me I can meet with him on JAN 10th... .maybe then the healing can begin

btw, what the hell is ppppffff, Nechi?

Pppfffff... .letting the air out of your mouth.


Don't feel guilty ! Realize,learn,move on!

Its done, in the past.  You my friend, stay in the "now"

None of this is easy, then it becomes  |iiii

I sent u a PM, Nechi

she hurt me ya'll.  Each and everytime she hurt me.  And it's the holidays, and she hurt me, for god's sake. And I am alone. and Im hrtuing

Yes she did, no doubts about it... .she did.

it hurts, proves you are alive and have feelings, there are ways to cope with this .for sure they are going to rumble in there but you must not add up like i said assumptions, that's unnecessary,futile, if this and that happens deal with it then. This all part of being in the now. Not reminiscing that night 2years ago when whatever, not when what if next week  so and so. I'm an industrial tech. Though i have an SA in cognitive behavioral therapy and been to therapy... few weeks ago, i was here, in a wreck, until i reinforce positive thinking by just talking to myself , for example, : marinro7 there is no going back, it always come back to the same outcomes.nothing you can do about it you will never be with her again.this when i would have little fantasies going in my head. I had thoughts of her with someone else then tell myself :marinro7, doesn't matter you are never going back.

Made myself sad but I'm not being a BPD and gas lighting myself lol!just keep reminding yourself .in a sense we are lucky because the only thing we have to realise is they are sick BPD and we know were we've been through.

arn... .check your pm

Left out that people here have been of great help and put my trust in them

they no crazy and they know crazy

I know. She will hurt you if you let her. And she will derive pleasure from it. My x smiled when he saw how he was hurting me. Smiled.

This is how I got through it... when I had to bite my tongue and get him out of my house before he caused any of us further harm.

I became completely boring. I left a room when he entered it, I did not speak unless spoken to, and then I responded politely. I gave him no personal information. I'm sure I bored him to death, and since he loves drama I was not very much fun, was I?

I had a plan, I had to keep to it. It was life or death to me. My kids, my home... .you leave. You have no right to be here and treat all of us the way you have.

In the end, he escalated his violence because I was not responding to the usual bullying. I had to call the police, they came and talked to him, and he left the following week. I was dead serious, I will not have that violence or anger in my home. MY HOME, not yours.

I did it, and I'm a woman who was alone and very afraid. Afraid that the next time he went off he would hit me.

Be smart... use your head... .this is a crucial time.

L

my mom met with her today.  she said that my ex said she was done…wanting to move on with her life (i'm sure there is a replacement.

she doesn't want to live her life like this anymore.  said she was reading and going thru "co-dependency no more" with her counselor.

yet, she wants to have an amicable relationship with me for the betterment of our son, where we can be in the same rom and not want to kill each other.

so, i'm the one who has been crazy all this time, ya'll.  she's been co-dependent on me, and therefore, i'm on the wrong board and need to find somewhere else to deal with my problems.

she wants me to go to her dad's x max am to watch my son (8) open up his presents from santa.  i should man up, ignore her, and go for 30 mins and leave.

arn

is this her leaving a door open for future?

i have no idea what to do

If so, would you consider going back?

You believe she at one point "get it" "realize "?

not strong enough right now…so probably

can anyone interpret this?

i take it as she's done for good…so now i can start a new life without her.  need to get on the horse, i guess

More than likely, she is done for now.  Relationships with pwBPD are often times need based- in fairness, for both parties.  She may have a replacement lined up, she may not.  But for whatever reason, RIGHT NOW, she feels like she is done.  pwBPD's perceptions of things and wants/needs change with the wind.  There is an active thread, I don't recall the title, on this board at the moment in which the OP talks about how he heard from his BPDex out of nowhere, because she isn't getting the attention she craves from somewhere else at the moment so she turns back to him.

I have read peoples' stories on here, Charred being one of them I believe, who recycled after 20 YEARS.  Didn't hear from their BPDex's for 20 years, and then for whatever reasons began talking again and got involved once more.  I don't think you can ever truly rule out hearing from your BPDex again unless they are dead.  It has been 7 months since my split, 5 months of NC, and while I can't imagine a reason I would ever talk to her again (or see her hopefully), I still have to acknowledge that it may happen one day.

I understand the bolded part.  What I have ultimately decided is that I had (and frighteningly still have, at least a little) a vulnerability for my BPDex. I always had this lingering sense of "unfinished business" with her... .like things were not supposed to be or have ended the way they did.  I think it is part of the reason I recycled so many times... .I figured that, logically, the more times I tried the greater the chance for a positive outcome, the greater the chance that I could improve that narrative... .but no matter how many times you try, you cannot erase the past.  Having had sex with a close friend of mine, making out with my best friend, dating 3 guys at once, cheating otherwise the entire time we were together, those things cannot ever be undone. 

It is hard to admit that we are powerless to change something or someone.  It is terrifying.  But we truly are powerless to change or to fix our BPDex's.  I believe it was Earth Angel who in the last day or two posted the relationship history of her 42 yr old BPDex.  It was a mile long and read like a soap opera that you would walk out of saying, "Like THAT could ever happen".  But it is true, and my BPDex, at only 22 years old, has a narrative that is on par to match, if not exceed Earth Angel's BPDex's.  They do not ever magically get better.  It does not ever magically go away.  Even with lots of therapy, where the pwBPD is actively engaged in the process and working to learn and heal, they are attempting to re-wire their brains, to fundamentally change the way they perceive and understand EVERYTHING, in the present AND the past.  It is a hell of a task.  It isn't something like strep throat, where you have it, get treated for it, and you are all better.  It isn't a black and white thing.  They will always have BPD; therapy just makes it better.

that's the thing…not knowing that kills me…

but from everything she said, her counselor and her are working on her codependency issues and how I am the villain. 

just confused and don't know what to do other than try to pick p the pieces and move on

pwBPD are master manipulators- they get very good at manipulating and lying because truly it is how they survive.  They cannot keep things together long enough and in a reasonable enough manner to live any other way. 

It can be very hard to see, and I wouldn't expect you to believe me at this point, but the loss of the relationship with a pwBPD is in some ways a blessing.  It frees us to live better, to be happier.  Ultimately it doesn't matter what your BPDex or her therapist think (the concession being when it comes to custody/a court of law).  Your BPDex is going to repeat the same destructive patterns over and over again.  You don't have to.  You can break free, you can choose something different, and that is a blessing; even though, again, it may not seem like it now.

I think picking up the pieces and moving on is exactly what you need to do.  Realize though that "moving on" does not necessitate jumping immediately into another relationship- "moving on" can mean many things, and in some ways it is more about leaving things behind than moving forward to news ones.  If that makes any sense.

October  |iiii

Well, she admitted to my mom that she started talking to someone in early December.  And how she wants to be able to go on dates and dinner with other people. 

It was all my fault, the drinking, the verbal abuse, she is doing therapy with her therapist, learning soo much about how she has been the victim living with a destructive alcoholic like myself. 

She does want me to go over by her dad's house and x mas morning so I can watch my son open up x mas presents. 

She does want to have an amicable relationship with me for our son's sake and future. 

She related my mother's relationship with my dad, and how they were able to get along after their divorce.

I mean I guess I'm the crazy one here, I guess it was ALL my fault.  I guess she has found someone else and moved on already.  Bringing up how she is thinking about how scared she is to go on dates, and maybe a restraining order is needed.

I guess I just wish that whatever relationship she is starting is going to fail... .I want her to be miserable for the rest of her life.  I know what she did to hurt me.  I know how she vomitted all over town about me and how I abused her.  I want her to fail in every relationship she ever has... .I guess I'm pretty bitter because I know now she is with someone.

I hate myself for STILL feeling this way about someone who intentionally tried to hurt me.  I hate how she doesn't anything anymore about me and has moved on in 2 weeks!  I hate how she played the victim (which my mom did not buy) to my mom.  I am sure she is playing one for the new guy.  Can someone please just promise me that this new guy is in for the ride of his life?  Can someone please just gaurnatee me that she will be back one day, so I can close the door in her face for once?

Thanks, guys... .not doing too good

I mean right now I am REALLY feeling that I am the one who is f*!cking crazy.  That maybe she was right about me.  That I am everything she told everyone about me.

   

Arn


No!  That's what they do.  They are so so good at twisting things around and making themselves the victim.  They will accept just enough of the guilt to make it look plausible and then lay on the "poor me, I've been victimized/ traumatize" bs like smooth sweet honey. 

Arn, I feel your pain, I share the same feelings almost exactly and often feel I'm the crazy one and wish her to feel as much pain as me. You are in a bad place right now, but so#overit is 100% correct, and her opinions should be taken with a huge pinch of salt, they serve her purposes only.

But, Arn, here's the rub - she might have been right about some things. Nobody is perfect. Everybody has some 'issues' and traits that need addressing. My ex took great pleasure in pointing mine out to me (to get herself off the hook and find someone to blame for her myriad problems mainly), and threw in many others that she conjured up/projected. Because she only brought them up when she needed to avoid responsibility or when she wasn't getting what she wanted or when we were arguing I dismissed them as self serving garbage. All of them.

But she was right about my addiction and it's destructive consequences(despite functioning well and running a successful business and being a single parent to a teenage son) , my anger, my self righteous outbursts at her, my moodiness and apparent lack of commitment. It has been so painful to face these facts and take responsibility for my actions and emotions, and not to blame her for my problems. Really painful. I've spent many dark nights literally howling with pain at the realisations. In a messed up way she has helped me grow and reassess.

But I am not crazy. And I am not responsible for her craziness. And I have tried to address the problems and move forward. She cannot do this. She blames me for all her woes, including her suicide attempt. Her next guy will have a terrible ride, and have a twisted view of me thrust upon him. So will yours, be assured.

Arn, you are not crazy either. You are judging yourself based on her warped views rather than being honestly self critical.  Be easy on yourself. Don't take on board her judgments. You know the truth for yourself.

Best wishes.

Arn, Arn, Arn... .I thought I would check back in to this topic and see how the meeting with your mother went.  I wasn't expecting that you would have messed up so badly. Now she is going to tell your mother you went by the house and raged at her like a pwBPD. Great.

I understand your pain. You put up with crazy for so long - longer than you should have - gave up your happiness for hers, made way too many allowances for her, were betrayed many times over, etc etc and you got nothing but grief in return. It's the usual story and your reaction is quite normal under the circumstances.

But... .You need to be smart. You need to be the perfect gentleman here in order to come out of this on top, or at least smelling like roses. It will reduce the damage to you and allow quicker healing. Your goal right now is healing  - it's not proving that she is a slut or a baby killer. This is not your concern.

I know it's hard but I would suggest you find ways to cope and manage the stress until meeting your P on January 10. The festive season might be a hard one to get through so please find something to keep you busy.  If the weather in your location allows it right now, take some long walks. Go to the gym and lift weights, do something. It helps to clear the mind and get some sense of balance.

Why do you say you're alone? It doesn't sound like your family is too far away if you're mother is meeting with her. Connect with people you need to re-connect with. Focus on what is going to reduce your level of anger and act like a gentleman at all times. I know that's hard. I've been there and I didn't heed this same advice but if I did I wouldn't be where I am right now.

Your job right now is for you to start healing and coming out on top. Please at least think about it.

Aussie, I didn't go over there and rage on her after she spoke with my mom.  I did send her mean text messages last weekend and called everyone I knew and told them she slept with someone.  This was before I went NC

Hey arn-

Merry Christmas!  And I truly mean that for you and your son.

In hindsight my borderline ex was workin angles and manipulating from the very start.  She's got decades of failed relationships and being left, her fear of abandonment is a self-fulfilling prophesy, so she's gotten very good at setting psychological hooks deep to affect an attachment, convinced he will leave anyway, but she might as well try as hard as she can, the shadowy way mind you, since she's worthless in her head, and no one would want her in an open, honest relationship.

Anyway, she first used her sexual wiles, and then started in with the belittling, condescending, disrespectful comments, many of which I let slide because I was trying to make the relationship work, silly me, but after a while they started to get to me and I started to doubt myself.  The reason I bring it up is IT WASN'T YOU!  I was mired in self doubt after I left her, analyzing and reanalyzing what went down, and when I was thinking with my heart it was my fault, but when thinking with my head, I was fine, better than fine, flawed as all humans are, but I did and said the right things, I AM the right thing.  I am more than enough, I gave it my best, it didn't work, and the serious mental illness on her part made sure it would never work.

Lighten up on yourself this Holiday season.  It's early and you have healing to do, and the growth that comes out of this will make you that much more valuable to the lucky, normal girl you meet one day.  Too early to think about that I realize, but true nonetheless.

Would she deny ever saying them if you brought them up?  That was mine... .if I didn't have a witness he would say it never happened.  If I did have a witness he would say he was just trying to be funny and I needed to lighten up.

Good one... .One I forgot about.  When something she said hurt me to my core, she would always be "joking".

Over the years my weight has fluctuated.  It has always fluctuated but I admit I need to drop 20 to 25 pounds this coming year. 

One of the meanest things she said to me when defending her love and hard work she did for this relationship was

"Arn, It was me, I was the one that would have to move your big gut out of the way to give you blowjobs."

I mean what a queen, huh?  The girl I broughthome to my mom said this.  And the girl my mother hates... .:light:

Arm, not to be mean or anything, but your momma seems to take a wholla "o" space in your life ?

She would do whatever she could in the moment to keep the chaos going. It was as if she was allergic to calm and mellow, always had to stir sht up, which worked to keep me on edge, and I think also made her feel at home; chaos is where she lives. Why did she do that? Oh yeah, serious mental illness. Why did I put up with it for so long? I knew where I was going, and was in complete denial that I could never get there with her.

Yah!why,why,why... .oh!yah!... .but why?... .oh!yah!

process we must go through to see clearly, it happens but sslloowwllyyy!

My dad passed 2 years ago.  All my family and friends are tired of hearing about her and don't want to anymore after 14 years of living in Willy Wonka Toxic Land of Sludge.  

So, right now this website and my momma are all I have to keep my sanity until I can meet with P on Jan 10

Fine by me,fine by me... .

Take care 

It is a figure of speech where I am from, "Not the kind of girl you take home to momma."  was all I was trying to say really

BUT... .Maybe I never made it thru the Oedipus stage fully... .LOL! Maybe a topic for Jan 10th and a reason I attract woman like this! 

Hi Arn sorry to hear how rough things have been. How are things going with you son?  A breakup like this can bring a lot of collateral damage.

Have you had a chance to speak with an attorney?  If you guys are going this route try to reign in those texts messages to her if you can.  I know you are hurt its just that those might go on the record for custody.

It's hard  because treating any interaction like a business transaction seems contrary to the relationship - it can be helpful in safe guarding your with your child.

Thanks, Mango.  I understand the full consequences of my actions in regards to the mean and terrible texts I sent her about the abortion.  I am strictly NC from here on out.  part of the convo with my mother and her pertained to visitation rights and both families think we can handle it amicably.  I will offer a fair sum for child support or offer we split everything 50/50 in terms of support for our son. I will be the best dad I can be, I will validate him and let him know this had nothing to do with him.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't ever want to hear from her again unless it is an emergency that has to do with my sonn.

It's good to hear you have some support.  No contact is very difficult - almost impossible if you have kids - I'm sure you've noticed.

You may benefit from the coaching on legal and parenting boards (in addition to leaving) to get some advice on controlled contact.  No contact could backfire a little in that she/courts may interpret it as stonewalling or as a disinterest in the welfare of your child - even though you are just trying to make an emotionally safer space for yourself.  It's not a fun or easy situation to be in for sure.

The senior members on those boards have lots of practice keeping any contact about the kids and not engaging in more conflict. 

Just some thoughts.  Hope you get spend some quality time with your son and family.

Happy Holidays.