BPDFamily.com

I saw a topic like this recently.  I couldn't find it though.  So i will start another one.

Does anyone think pwBPD actually feel bad about the way they treated us?  How they know they abandoned us and how we were devastated?

Sometimes my ex would let me know in her own way that she felt bad; but it wasn't an actual "I'm Sorry"

Or Are they lying awake in bed thinking of how they can hurt us next?

It really depends in which lens/face the pwBPD is viewing you through. Before being triggered, my exUBPDgf would tell me how sorry she was in the way she treated me. Especially in round 2. Even going back to friendship she would state this before she started getting close to me in reference to her outbursts that i perceived at the time as mere quirks. After being triggered, though, all of that disappeared. Once she started looking at me through that other face, and view me as the person(parents/relatives) who hurt her back in childhood, i become that person in her eyes via that face, that hurt her, and thus she no longer felt bad for treating me so horrendously wrong. I saw how she looked at me the last few horrific days i was in her house, and i was not being viewed as the Ironmanfalls she first met but the monster who hurt her. Just thinking about that makes me so mad i should rip her parents or whoever did that to her a new one for compromising such a lovely individual which in turn has had a cascading effect on me.  I paid the bill in effect for their mistreatment of her.

Wow, Ironmanfalls, you and I should get together and go bowling.

Are we always that monster? Forever and ever?

I mean, I got a kid with this chick, and I have to be looked at forever that I'm a moster?  Crazy, her mom looks at her dad like that.  They are divorced and her dad still cheats on his current wife with the mom.

Used to think her dad was the one who f**cked her up for life by abandoning her while she was only 5 yrs old.  Yet, knowing her mother the past 14 years, I think she may have been the one who abused my ex as a kid.  Not sexually; but would give her boy haircuts, and the woman is so vindictive and bitter, she is probably BPD, as well.

When being viewed through that lens/face, yes. How long that lasts? Unknown. If you read the accounts on here, it is not forever because most, not all do return in a cyclic pattern. Mine returned 3 months later after round 1. Now after round 2, i have heard nothing directly from her in 5+ months.

Ironmanfalls stated it perfectly for me! That was my experience entirely, and to this day when she looks at me I can tell she still sees me not as her now ex husband, the loving father she always bragged about, or the great husband all her friends were jealous of. She sees me as her father, and her mother for that matter who didn't protect her and was never a mother to her. She has even yelled at me and said things like "that is exactly what my mom does to me!" and yet continues to let her mom do it while then turning on me in blind rages about anything that even resembles it. It is like she is literally gone, the look in her eyes now. It is not the same person. It is not only scary but heartbreaking. I went through a long long period where I just HATED her parents so badly for what they did to her, how they helped create this and in turn ruined my marriage (they continued to have a direct role right to the end, especially her mom, in ruining the marriage) and I wanted the worst to happen to them. I still strongly dislike them but now I pity them instead for they must be miserable themselves. I think my ex deep deep down does know how much she hurt me though because she is still so angry and puts so much energy into hating me even though we have no contact what so ever even though we share custody of our daughter. To expend that kind of energy still telling people how horrible I am, and all these things tells me she feels guilty and has to make herself feel better. In the meantime I am moving on. And she hates that.

My splits over 14 years always lasted 2-3 months.  But I have a kid with her; but I honestly want no contact with her ever again.

I am meeting with her father at the beginning of the New Year.  I am going to tell him just that.  I don't want any contact with her.  Ever.  I understand we have a child; but I only want to hear from her if it is an emergency that has to do with my son.  


I doubt she will have NC ever again because of my son.  But it's clear she has moved on with my replacement, and I need to do the same.  It hurts but I am determined.  I can see this thing with her new man not working out.  Big exec, 10 years older, never been married, eternal bachelor, prob worth millions.  Even if he does marry her, he will ask for a prenup and she has always been against that.  But who knows, her golden uterus is great in her mind.  

PwBPD feel an overwhelming sense of shame.  The core of BPD is a set of maladaptive coping mechanisms. For example, when "healthy" or "normal" people leave a relationship, there is a grieving period. You will hear of many pwBPD who jump into a new relationship the day after, or even date overlappingly.  To truly deal with ones issues and shame one must sit down and look introspectively; this is incredibly painful for pwBPD, who often have hurtful memories or feelings stemming from childhood, whether is being the perceived or real abandonment by a parent, or abuse, or other traumatic experiences.  It hurts to process those thongs, but they can dull the pain via their coping mechanisms... .Much like hoe people drink to forget.  As non's it is easy to think that when we are immediately replaced we must have meant nothing to our pwBPD. That isn't true; in fact quite the opposite.  Our BPDex's feel a tremendous amount of shame for what they do, but in order to survive and continue their narrative, they have to make it our fault. And they believe it.  If they didn't, it would mean it was their fault, and that would be too much to bear for their already fragile sense of self and self worth.

If you take a minute and think about your BPDEX'S history, on many cases it isn't a happy one.  I have listed off mines past many times ... .But she has nit had a happy life.  In large part because of choices she has made, but all the same.  They don't feel good. Dont think they get sick pleasure from hurting us... .It isn't an intentional thing, even when they do things intentionally to hurt us. There is always an underlying reason that has to do with their self worth/how they perceive things. Remember, although they may look like adults, emotionally they are stunted. And you wouldn't expect a ten year old to reason clearly when it comes to hurt feelings or shame or feelings of inadequacy.

I agree, Octoberfest  |iiii  I think that in many cases, people who hurt others are hurting themselves.

As Ironman said... I noticed her face change/looks over last weeks...

Also couple of months after I asked her xplain somethign she said... when i tried talking to her after breakup, she became stressed and somewhat really childlike and typing in caps she said she "just wants to shout it and at me" I asked shout what, i said shout scream what you want but... she said she doesn't know weather scream or cry, and I am a bully. It was an eye opener... although i felt it was maniuplative because she didn't want to answer question I asked... but was scary feeling for me.

Then when I bumped into her as I told before,  nearly 1year later (2months ago) ... .I seen her face and she looked straight ahead, eyes wide open, scared, terrified...

Broke my heart. I'm now her mother in her eyes I feel.  And I hate them for it.  They were nice to me, but I'm sure she would not be in this position but for them.

So she still talks badly of me... so I assume I'm hated... I hope to think she knows I'm not bad one, I even said to her I am paying for mistakes her mother made as a child... that she was in therapy before I met her. But it seems pointless, or maybe she might know her lies are so far there and smear campaign, she can't go back. Who knows

= all makes no sense!

(As oktoberfest said, we grieve... .(although this has  been the longest time after relationship ever, i still don;t feel ready for a relationship, so only for this board i would have thought there was something wrong with me not being able to get involved with someone else)

But it's best to work on yourself.

I do not believe they feel at all... once the devaluation starts.

I saw my ex husband do it. Stuff his feelings away. And they were pretty intense feelings, about his son. If he can do that with him, I've no doubt that he has done it with me.

It's the only way he has to protect himself.

Hopefully someday, I will not care about him either. That day will come.

And then, I will be free.

L

Love4me, thanks for the input. I can see her coming back into my life who knows, maybe several yrs down the road bc we have a son. Scary thing is, I don't trust myself to NOT go back. I think after doing all I could, and getting nothing emotionally, I need to be able to start validating myslef. I have no clue how to do that?

Since she moved on so fast, will the lack of processing and grieving affect them later down the road or do they sub-consciously continue to stuff, stuff, stuff, until there's a 10 on the Richter scale?

Hi, my exEC with BPD told me many times what it felt like. He said that everything is going great then theses thoughts of not feeling like he is worthy of love and caring I showed him. He said he would then start thinking that I am going to leave him any day.even tho all is good. He had no reason at the time to think I was going anywhere. He said that he would think that I hadn't reinforced that I was still attaracted to him lately even though I was loving and caring to him.He said his brain would tell him that I didn't love him anymore and it was just time before he was going to blow it and make me leave him. So he said that something dumb would make him angry and he wouldn't be able to even think and his filter would let him say and do mean things that he can't help it. He said that he has been like this for 51 years. And he can't change he told me he has tried. UGG most people would think I need help, but he says he feels normal being this way. He shared that he has tried meds, church talking to his doctor was in a mental hospital years of councillors, nothing helps. I think he likes being this way it's like being addicted to drugs. He gets a high off of the drama. It's a sad way to live, the problem is that there are so many woman in line to do just what I did try try try. Then give up.

I don't think they feel any guilt or remorse. I think they just project whatever negative feelings they have onto you.

Good topic

Is this not what "normal" people do when they no longer have feelings for someone. Not talking specifically about you Love4. When I left my 14 year marriage to my nonBPD ex wife I was ready to move on and because my expwBPD was already putting the screws on me almost immediately afterwards I never truly grieved my marriage. The thing is I had checked out of the marriage a year earlier because I was tired of our constant fighting. My ex was devastated. I was not sad but ready to move on and honestly didn't think about her much.  

Do you think that some pwBPD lose feelings for us during devaluation and basically keep us around until they find a steady replacement?  I could tell when the ex started devaluing me after I had a lengthy illness. Things never got back to normal and it was obvious that she wasn't into me like she was before. It changed when I caught her cheating. Her fear of abandonment kicked in and she latched on tight. At the same time I knew she was starting to see other people (I told her to do what she wanted).

I just wonder if they lose feelings for you and don't think about you if they get into a relationship that they think is the"one". I also wonder the criteria they look for in a person. Do they care about about attraction, personality, etc. of do they latch on to anything that pays attention to them? Do they feel like they are instantly in love with anyone who wants to be with them or are they into some more than others?

Mine I believe was talking/triangulating with my replacement for a while. Even during the time when she told me a month ago she wanted to ty again. I need to trust my gut on this one. My replacement is very successful, bums me out that I think he is more worthy of her than me. But as soon as she knew she had him in her grips, she was gone. Than lied to me about it for weeks. I think she enjoys knowing she devastated me, showing off her new shiny prize!

I think this is what they do but many people do it. Basically people blame their partners for the relationship failing. How often have you taken the blame for ending a relationship? It is easier to convince yourself that the other person is mainly to blame, that way you don't have to feel as guilty for leaving.

Is this not what they do?  How often has that come back to haunt you?  Rarely because you convince yourself it was not your fault?

thank you for that, nevertheless.

To respond to Waifed-  I believe if the victim has the sexual organ the BPD is looking for, along with an ability to listen to them and compliment them some, and in general have a high tolerance for bull$#@! then that is everything they need,    I think honestly that if a mop or garbage can had these qualities they would latch onto it at some point if they could.  

Arn,

I was the older, successful replacement that you talk about. Look where it got me :)  Initially it may be about the "status", but once you are devalued it is just like any other BPD relationship. It won't last.  Rest assured. I was in love with the ex and treated her like a princess. It didn't matter.

They are chasing their perception of love. They love the idea of being in love. Once they realize their partner is flawed the devaluation process kicks in. It is just a matter of time before game over and the cycle repeats with the next victim.  Money, status, looks etc. just don't ultimately matter.

I couldn't have been more different than other guys she's dated (including her current paramour). All were narcicisstic man boys of varying degrees. I think the fact that I approached mer made the.difference, and paid.attention to her. I only shared two hobbies with her one x, the Love of Her Life. I guess we were both smart too. I was the only adult, the.most well.adjusted, self made, and most mature (except for my codependency) by far. Basically, the biggest challenge to have a mature r/s. I used to think she wanted a father for her children in me, but she tried desperately with the LohL, a guy younger and less along in life than her, but it never took. So I really don't know why she chose me. She used to get on me about having low self esteem when I would bring this up occasionally. Since she now left in the worst way possible, I dont know what to think... .maybe I was right in the beginning. She was just a fluke romance, and I got a pretty woman due to her low self esteem rather than mine.

unfortunately you are probably right ... .And I thought it was my looks and charm  :)

Turk

I read somewhere that they will often alternate between older men (father figures) and younger "bad boys" (less threatening in terms of wanting a lasting relationship or figuring them out). The ex used to comment about how she liked the fact that I liked to take care of her.

I don't think its that exteme.     Truly there are Nons on this board that come from every facet of life.   Like what Waifed said, he was the more mature, protector, provider type, similar to myself while others on here are the younger, risk taker, see the world, go gamble types.   Really it doesn't matter what 'type' a Non is in the end... .as long as they give the pwBPD what they are looking for-attention and caring. 

My ex triangulated with a man 30 yrs older than her. She is now with someone 10 yrs older than her. Def something to consider yet we were the same age

That totally makes sense. It may be a while before she finds another "me" being so traumatized by a father figure now. But she told me again the other week, that she's looking for someone to "lead her" and "guide her" I told her that was the definition of a loaded r/s. She said that was why she needed to leave. She didn't quite get that I was saying she was searching for the very definition of a dysfunctional r/s. I let it slide because I don't care anymore.

No waifed, that is not what normal people do.

Normal people do not go from one day loving their partner to hating them the next. The night he attacked me verbally and emotionally I kept saying to him "you are killing me, you are killing me, stop please just stop". Did he stop? No. What kind of person does that to someone they love? Someone who is bent on hurting the other. Someone who is ill, someone who thinks you deserve this... .he is your jury and your executioner.

That was my experience, I'm not saying it's yours.

His fears ruined our marriage, nothing more, nothing less. That is the truth.

He is mentally disordered, and has ruined every relationship he has ever had, and will continue to do so until he dies or gets well. He clings on to anyone who does not trigger his fears. This would be anyone who has a normal 8 to 5 job, puts him first in all things, and drops everything and anything they want or need in life in order to be with him. These are his qualifications.

At this point, I have to stop focusing on why he did what he did to me and my kids. This is no more about J, this is about me. I have got to survive now.

l

Love4

My ex did basically the same thing but didn't rage. She would love me, hate me constantly at the end. I think her fear of abandonment was extreme so she would be very clingy but I think she was trying to find a replacement (dating) and when she was doing that I was nobody to her. My anger towards the end was a huge trigger I'm sure. I didn't know about BPD at the time but I knew she wasn't right in the head. (Neither was I at this point).

Maybe they can't love as many say. Mine was always so affectionate. I thought that it was for me. I guess it was all about her. Once their supply is used up, they mentally and physically move on. In my case I beat her to the punch.

our former mates were alike in so many ways... .I  loved the constant affection at first,  but if I didn't hold it on my side to some unnamed level,  it triggered her.  as a  middle aged man,  now I really have no idea how much affection I'm supposed to exhibit to a woman.  Will it be enough,  our will I smother someone new?  Maybe I'll find out some day... .

Welcome , I think you are right about planing for the next one. My ex would often tell me that I was the one for him he didn't want anyone prettier younger richer. What? I never asked him I'm I good  enough for him... .lol I work full time same job 25 years own a house car and a great family. Him 50 jobs in 51 years lives in room ex wife has cousty of the kids,he hasn't tried to see them in years. Not that I don't have problems. But Really? Well after I was gone only 1 week he went out on 3 dates ... then he texts me about it. Begging to get back together one more chance he is changed. No thanks ... .

So in no way do they have a conscious?

I lay my head down at night and think about my day.  If I owe someone an apology, I will let them have it the next time I see them.

When a BPD lays their head down at night, or is alone with their thoughts during the day, do they ever just feel terible about the way they have treated the people in their lives?

Do they have remorse, guilt, shame, conscious?

The shame and guilt is focused on their unstable sense of self. So sad. It is good to remember that BPDs have a very fragmented, dis-integrated sense of self. Thus they present different aspects to different people. We all do to some extent, but the severity of the behavior is what sets the PDs apart (disorder from the order).

Mine would feel intense shame over hurting me or the kids sometimes, and would even say she just had to leave for a while to not mete out her anger (what I call abuse). So yes, intellectually some can process it.

After the affair, I sensed intense shame from mine, but I flat out asked her is she was sorry for hurting me. She said she was still trying to process it (?). Her shame and guilt for focused on her for being a "bad" person, because deep in their core, that is what they fear, hence the unhealthy coping mechanisms like projection. I did finally get something that sounded like an apology, but she kept right on doing it, and still is. So no, try not to get wrapped up in thinking they have some kind of integrated self-awareness or developed ethical and moral code. One can drive one's self crazy trying to think about it, but at the end of the day, we probably have to realize that this is who they are.

They do, they just don't act on it to make it better, like you're saying you do. It would bring their whole house of cards crashing down. Are they going to go back and apologize to everyone they ever hurt? Admit they made mistakes, were responsible, or could be better next time? They don't think like we do, arn. They don't live like we do. They see the light but turn away.

Thanks, Turk.

She still talks/speaks with my mother bc of our son(8).  My mom tells me my ex can't even look her in the eyes.  Lost so much weight, she was 105 when we were together, and outbreaks on her face.

I assume it's the shame/stress of me busting her with my replacement and letting the "cat out of the bag".  It's funny for 3 weeks there when I would call her and ask her if she was seeing someone else, she wouldn't give me an answer. She thought she could hide it and come back to me.  I know this... . I always told her if I found out about someone else during her needed "breaks", I was done.

Now, they are moving really fast, seeing allot of each other, and I am sure this is to validate herself that she has made the right decision.

Oh, well, I start my therapy and inner look at myself Friday... . my first appointment with a P... . it's been a long strange trippy 3 weeks, I tell ya!

I'd suspect methamphetamine. The PDI's favorite elixir!

I do think that they have remorse and even feel badly sometimes for what they do. My ex would at times come to me and say that she was wrong in how she acted, or what she said etc. Rarely did she say that she was sorry she hurt me and rarely did she acknowledge my hurt feelings or anything like that. However I could tell when she would tell me she was sorry for how she acted or what not that she did really feel sorry for treating me badly or more commonly that she shouldn't have done "x,y or z" and doesn't know why she did it or wishes she had not done it etc and was really going to try better next time. I could see it in her eyes and body language and yet even saying that much was so draining for her it was all she could do. At least for me I think that my ex really did know at times she was being crazy and hurting me and did feel some level of bad about it and did what she could cope with to make it right but because she never actually addressed it I never got a true apology or even just an apology. I never got any kind of admitting that it was not all my fault she divorced me. She blames me 100% to this day and I think it will always be that way even though she has made comments to me showing she recognizes her part. That is what I find so sad, the inability to act upon those feelings of shame, regret or remorse because the shame they feel is so deep that the fear they feel probably cripples them from it. I don't know that is just my experience, I am the type who tends to try and see everyone as fundamentally good and we all have our issues and some are just sicker than others.

Exactly, I was also the older, successful replacement. All her friends even attested. Yeah look where is got me. I will never forget how often I was "the real man" for her. Now, hurt is left.