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I ran across this quote on the Do Something Different thread and I didn't want to hijack the conversation, so I thought I would start a new topic.  It was about unhealthy vulnerability Want2know found:

"Over sharing is not an act of vulnerability, it is a manipulation of it.  Over sharing is a means of self-victimizing.  It is a cry for help you may not even realize that you are making, with the subject matter leading the breadcrumb trail to your deepest shame."

I think this is me.  I always thought that I was just being honest.  I just never know what to say when topics about family come up.  Questions like, "Is your family close?" or "How was your holiday?"  I used to answer with details and sometimes people would get these looks on their faces like they thought I was making things up.  Am I supposed to be hiding the fact that my family is unstable because people won't understand?  When do you bring these types of topics up?  I guess I'm just confused as to when it's okay to talk about my dysfunctional past and when I'm supposed to play it down. 

Think of their being levels of closeness... .

Most people are acquaintances... you say hi/bye, smile and keep things pleasant/upbeat with them as much as possible, show some sympathy if they are having a hard time but that is about it, you don't share deep anything with people you barely know.

Closer level are people you work with, people you live next to and others that you are in clubs with, that kind of thing, you can be a bit more open with them, ask how they are, remember their folks, BF/GF names, animals, etc, as you have spent more time with them and expect to have ongoing brief conversations, working relationships with them, still you don't typically share deeply with them... .especially at work.

There are people you consider friends... .if you have spent the night with them, talked all night, been on trips, call each other whenever anything comes up, are very open with them... start sharing with lesser stuff and over time as its natural... if it is natural you can share with them.

Close friends are people you can share anything with, call at any hour and ask anything of and not worry about repercussions, you are available for them and vice versa.

Family should be even closer and more supportive, but if you are on these boards... .you have to deal with family as you have found appropriate, some of the worst people to share important stuff with are disordered family members (like mean ones with NPD.)

Sharing too much/too soon... puts healthy people off (as it implies a norm of reciprocity that hasn't been earned... so the excessive sharing is seen by many ... appropriately... as a con artist's trick to get too close too fast, making your motives suspect.)

Vulnerability is different from over-sharing. You are vulnerable with your spirit and intentions and how you interact... .in the moment. Over-sharing usually means getting out of the moment and going back to something you have issues around or you wouldn't be considering it something that can be over shared... so learn to be honest with your vulnerability and in the moment... rather than doing a secret dump.

Wow that is food for thought. I am a chronic over sharer. :-/. An example would be like when someone at work asks if I am going to see my mom for Christmas- my reply would be "-no, I haven't spoken to her in many years. She is a meth addict." Which is true but perhaps a little too much info to just throw out there. I guess that could be me tryin to victimize myself. Codependency issues rearing their ugly head. Thanks for the insight. :) I am going to go ponder this now. - pecia

Yeah, me too. Mr. Direct. 

But with charred's great summary and pecia's example, it's suddenly clear to me that usually my 'honesty' merely meant that I was showing my own internal loops and problems -- the things I was still stuck on.

I think what confused me was that I had a right to be stuck on those things; they were real and important. But the place for them was on this site, or with therapists, or in my own thoughts and journals, or occasionally with a close friend. Not with new friends that I'm meeting for dinner for the first time.  red-flag

Thanks people, good thread.

PP

I learned to stop sharing because when I would tell co-workers about things happening in my life or with my spouse at home, they would pretty much go into shock. LOL

People who have not had the pleasure of knowing a BPD, can not comprehend anyone acting that dysfunctional. They can not understand why anyone in their right mind would even be around someone who acts that dysfunctional.

It was the look of horror on my listeners faces that made me stop sharing.

I have the tendency to over-share; or have had most of my life. I see this as a sign of my codependent behavior.  But I also see this as part of my conditioning having a BPD mother and a NPD father -- I didn't really have any good models of "appropriate" behavior when it comes to closeness and familiarity at home.  This is why for most of my life I had always gravitated towards people with characteristics similar to my parents.  

"Over-sharing" for me was a little bit like the "splitting" behavior I was so familiar with in the familial setting.  It  was always either "tell all" or "tell nothing."

In time I developed more balanced relationships with acquaintances, friends and good friends.  But "over-sharing" or clear distance/acquaintance level distance was my tendency.  Navigating that space in between has been my learning experience.  And in those cases where I feel I've "learned" how to find the kind of familiarity, closeness that I desire and find comfortable ... .and more importantly that the other party also finds comfortable and favorable, those are my triumphs.  But I still endeavor to improve myself at finding these appropriate boundaries; the trick is to realize that these lines are different for different people.

I try not to spend to much time on people I feel have little potential to "grow" in our relationship.  But then again, I need to put in sufficient time before I can make the judgement that one person has little or no potential.  If I don't practice making new friends or building existing friendships, I get rusty at it.  It is too easy to be hermit-like for me.

I think that "over-sharing" can be just an expression of a strong desire to build close relationships but without having had the practice to know how to access when a specific relationship has developed sufficient intimacy where that kind of sharing doesn't scare the beejeebus out of the other person.

Good topic!


This certainly is me:


Never really have had any, but I certainly have wished for a close friend I could share "anything with".

I am very glad I four years ago found a good psychologist, male, my age and good chemistry. Can´t get a better substitute :)

So glad to see this discussion - good points made by all.  

I agree with Schwing that "over-sharing" can be just an expression of a strong desire to build close relationships, and charred's summary is excellent.

My early tendency in life was to be introverted, and sharing, for me, was done only after a long time of knowing someone.  I am thankful that I have some great friends from my childhood that I am still close with... .those relationships were built over time, with trust and caring.  Now if I could just be patient enough to do that with a guy, I'd be set.  

The thing is, if we do have such strong desires for intimacy, sometimes we can rush things.  I think that's where being ok with yourself being single is so important.  It's just as important to be 'connected' with yourself, as it is with others.

Brene Brown is the person who came up in the other thread... .here is a link to one of her book reviews on this site:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200082.0 if anyone is interested in pursuing the topic of 'daring greatly'.

Love this quote from her:  "Love is not something we give or get; it is something that we nurture and grow, a connection that can only be cultivated between two people when it exists within each one of them – we can only love others as much as we love ourselves."

As a fellow tend to over sharer one piece of advice I found helpful was, share a small thing, wait for the other to share, share something a little bigger, wait for the other to share. In a nutshell spend at least as much time listening as you do talking. Escalate the level of sharing as the other shares with you. I believe the idea came from Brene Browns, Daring Greatly book mentioned above.

I definitely have developed that all or nothing trait - which I'm working on breaking.  I think I feel closer to people than is probably normal.  I seem to have a sense that I shouldn't share those details with a stranger in line at the store, but I do think I tend to move friendships faster than they are probably ready to.  Probably my desire to fill the void of close relationships - but compared to my parents, even strangers have been nicer to me so I think that's why I have a hard time judging how close the relationship actually is.  I think, these people actually want to spend time with me and not just the time they have to spend with me.  And then I jump far too fast into the relationship. 

I spent a period of time just talking.  People didn't stay long.  I spent a long period of time just listening.  I felt unappreciated and used.  Now I need to learn moderation.

This thread has been on my mind since reading it yesterday. I'll try to not say too much about it,  lol  For awhile now, thanks to talking with a good T, I've been seeing it is a pattern of reaching out in a truthful yet cry for help kind of way. It feels kind of phony to answer 'Fine' when someone asks how I'm doing, when inside everything is being questioned, I feel sad, whatever. There is a time and place for expressing these details, though. Gradually discussing more personal things, with those who reciprocate, instead of just all at once, is a good idea. Have been working on it, and it's working. It helps give new relationships a better chance.

|iiii

Just a quick 'funny' note to when people ask how you are and the usual response is 'fine'... .some of my friends came up with the acronym for fine, which may make when you say fine feel more authentic (even though the other person won't know it).

F - effed up

I - insecure

N - neurotic

E - emotional

:)

Thanks for starting this thread, Sitara.

I was in the Schwing camp of over-sharing/no sharing with FOO origins too.

What I have learned - appropriately sharing with those that have earned the right to hear my full story.  Brene' Brown talks about this too - it was part of my "seeking balance" when I came here.

If it is something that can be used to "push" my own shame button - make sure I dang well share with someone trustworthy.  Trust comes from time, consistency and respect - not just because I tell you my deep dark secrets or you tell me yours.  I had a knack for trusting untrustworhty people - because I didn't have proper boundaries, didn't know how important they were really.

Fantastic Topic!

I love this.  I've had it all backwards!  It's not that people need to hear my whole story to love me, they need to love me before they deserve to hear my whole story.  I think I needed to hear that.  It's my low self-esteem coming into play there. 

I also hate the whole "fine" thing.  I've never really understood the meaning of pointless conversations like that.  It feels like you're just talking for talking's sake with no real point.  If you really don't care how the person is doing, why bother asking?  It's just always struck me as a bit silly.

Me too!

I just can't say "Fine", even if that is the case. In the past I have been prone to overshare, but I have tried to moderate it a bit. 

Today, I usually vary my reply between "really good" and "have been better". If it is a person i trust a bit more, and I feel really bad, I may ask in return ":)o you really want to know?", if he/she does, I say " Maybe later". If they care for me they will ask me later, and then I can tell them, if they don´t, it is probably not a good idea to put it all in their lap anyway.

Maybe not the best strategy, but seem to work decently for my.   

Is over-sharing really a codependent trait though? Or is it just that some people are more emotional than others? Everyone is different so I don't think it's a good idea to pathologize everything. Is this really a big issue or is it a bit neurotic to worry about stuff like this?

I was wondering when someone might chime in with the thought of worrying too much about over-sharing.

Worry, I don't think so.  Discussion about the topic - yes.  Too many topics may not be approached because it might seem like worrying or that it might not be worthy of discussion.  This site is for the purpose of working through dilemmas. 

Should this topic not be discussed? 

Of course this topic should be discussed Want2know. I think it's good that there's a diverse discussion-a variety of opinions. Personally, I feel that risk is just a part of life- that if I go on a plane, there's risk involved but how else am I going to get from A to B? Same thing with relationships and friendships... they involve risk too but surely it's better to take a chance than just be on your own and feel lonely? I feel like being too risk averse is just as much a mistake as over-sharing but in a different way.

I think it's the subtleties that are being discussed here.

Yes, there is always risk.  Nothing is certain, that's for sure.  I'm not sure that the discussion is black and white - over-share or be alone.

Is that how you see it? 

I agree - diverse perspectives are imperative.  Can you elaborate?

Yes, I can elaborate.

I met this guy that I liked the other day. He started talking to me about politics which I saw as a  red-flag I was being rational and thought "politics is a heavy subject and we should be talking about something light since we just met each other". I basically acted like I wasn't interested in talking about politics and the guy got the message and basically lost interest in me. But when he lost interest, I felt a bit disappointed because the thing is, I LOVE talking about politics! I just thought "oh I shouldn't"... just set myself a rule basically but did I really need to set myself a rule in that situation? Even if we had disagreed on our political views, would that have been such a bad thing? And where did obeying all the rules get anyone either?

I was talking to someone who knows me well recently who just told me that I was an opinionated person and that it'd be boring if everyone was the same... that I should just be myself and not take any notice of what other people think. I was worrying about whether that guy would think I was too argumentative/combative over the politics issue so I just acted like a bimbo instead.   After that incident, I just thought "no I'm not going to worry about this... I'm just going to be myself and screw what anyone else thinks". Because that's the thing- not everyone is going to like me and that's fine. I'll find people that I click with by being myself as opposed to what I think they want me to be... as opposed to people pleasing.

Ah yes, the rule about not talking politics or religion upon a first meeting.  Yeah, I get it. 

I think that if the guy was adamant about his view of politics, and was looking for a debate on the first 'date', then it should raise a red flag.  If you were not interested in him would you have engaged in that discussion?

Putting all that aside, it's about relationship building.  Perhaps he was over-sharing, and not appropriately getting to know you first before engaging in a conversation like that.  Had you gotten to know him, and built some level of trust, would that conversation been taken differently?  Maybe not, maybe so.  I would think it would be about his ability to acknowledge your views, and come to an understanding vs. a feeling of debate.

Mutual feelings and connection.  No more one-sidedness.  Doesn't mean we can't have differing views.  It just means respect for the other, and not letting it be a barrier to being connected.

Over-sharing, too much too soon... .they are  red-flag . The idea that someone needs to earn your trust is a very valid one... it takes time to build any r/s.

There is a very good book specifically on trusting and sharing... ":)aring to Trust" by David Richo.

Would look at table of contents on amazon or B&N or something... it is excellent and dead on topic... I have read Brene Brown's books, they are excellent as well, but don't go in to this topic to the degree that ":)aring to Trust" does.

______________________________

From B&N's overview;

Most relationship problems are essentially trust issues, explains psychotherapist David Richo. Whether it’s fear of commitment, insecurity, jealousy, or a tendency to be controlling, the real obstacle is a fundamental lack of trust—both in ourselves and in our partner.

Daring to Trust offers key insights and practical exercises for exploring and addressing our trust issues in relationships. Topics include:

   • How we learn early in life to trust others (or not to trust them)

   • Why we fear trusting

   • Developing greater trust in ourselves as the basis for trusting others

   • How to know if someone is trustworthy

   • Naïve trust vs. healthy, adult trust

   • What to do when trust is broken

Ultimately, Richo explains, we must develop trust in four directions: toward ourselves, toward others, toward life as it is, and toward a higher power or spiritual path. These four types of trust are not only the basis of healthy relationships, they are also the foundation of emotional well-being and freedom from fear.

Publishers Weekly

"Trust is not a feeling. It begins as a belief about the other," explains Richo (When the Past Is Present), a longtime therapist and author who transforms his kindly advice into an easy-to-understand "bible" of trust. The author introduces the concept of the "Five A's" he deems pivotal to trust in any adult relationship: Attention, Acceptance, Appreciation, Affection, and Allowing. Especially helpful is a point-by-point checklist to aid readers in determining if someone can be trusted. While some guiding principals may seem self-evident (":)oes not lie or have a secret life" others are more nuanced, such as "May operate on the basis of self-interest but never at my expense or at the expense of others." Filled with informative quizzes and fact-based assessments, the slim book offers a great deal of real-world advice governing adult relations, especially regarding modern romance in a shifting world. Richo's greatest ambition focuses on readers' ability to self-nurture, and he devotes the book's most enjoyable chapters to this subject. The take-away? The most important person to trust is yourself.

When something is impeding my ability to create and maintain the close friendships I so very much want but can't seem to do, yes I feel it's important to discuss and analyze what might be going on there.  I don't know that it's a co-dependent trait, but I do think I was trying to move the relationship too fast because I was too desperate for someone to care about me.


It's not that I wasn't trying - the problem here is that I was trying and still feeling lonely.  I was trying far too hard, and it scared people away.


I'm glad you know who you are and you like who you are.  That's not a place I can say I am at yet - I'm dealing with some enmeshment issues from my parent and am having to learn who I am and what I like as an adult.  I don't think you need to be a people-pleaser and make people like you.  My problem was for a very long time nobody liked me, and who can blame them - I was a pretty miserable person to be around, having nothing but bad things to say.  And as for the people I was attracting?  Very, very unhealthy people who were dragging me down more.  I know at least I am not talking about people-pleasing here, just trying to figure out how to get to where I want to be and which unhealthy habits of mine I should work on.

Having grown up in a dysfunctional family, I have a hard time with a lot of things that people learned as small children, things that come naturally to most healthy people.  I can't tell you how many times I wished people would just tell me when I was exhibiting behaviors that bothered them.  I would get so frustrated when people didn't understand that interpersonal subtleties don't come naturally to me.  That's why I find this place so great - people here understand why I struggle with these seemingly simple things.