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i don't, that's sad. i know who i use to be but that person was a care giver for so long he forgot what he want in life.

it's hard when you're so used to caring for another and focussing on their needs (but being told that you are putting your needs first) to then be left in a kind of vacuum.

I realised I was in trouble when I kept reading about 'sticking to boundaries' or 'setting boundaries' and I didn't even know what my boundaries were.  I was helped by an article that talked about being more aware of when you felt uncomfortable or comfortable as a way of working this out.  This could be things said/done to you or things you see on TV or hear at work etc.

For example, I noticed that whenever I heard a piano, I really noticed it in a way that I didn't notice other music.  I used to play piano a long time ago but it was something that slipped.  For Christmas, I got money towards a piano of my own.  I am still a musical person!

I noticed that I felt really small and upset whenever exH and I disagreed about money and I eventually realised that what was bothering me was not the lack of money in my bank account, it was his view of me as 'untrustworthy' with finances and the lack of respect and understanding of my situation that was really getting to me.  I found it really hard to keep (calmly) asking him to stick to our arrangement and when it eventually worked out, I had more respect for myself.  I thought I was someone who preferred to avoid conflict and 'keep the peace' (and even 'help' ex by not upsetting him about money) but it turns out I prefer to have some respect (and some money!)  :)

Not sure if this helps and I'm not explaining it very well but it's something about taking note of how different things make you feel and trying to build up a picture of yourself.  I'm still definitely a work in progress.

I've just posted on the Inventory board about not really knowing what I want just now so you are not alone 

all i really know is the years i was living with her i was so close to the r/s i couldn't really see it.

the few times i did get a look at it i lied to myself about how bad it was.

now living apart from her for almost a year i see how one sided it really was. we never really lost contact and i wanted her back for months on end.

i  got what i want a couple months ago wow was it worse than ever before total BPD r/s in high speed.

i have her blocked in every way and the lack of drama around me is so strange.

i may not know myself right now but i do know i want to be with that r/s.

im done being loved then hated two or three times a day.

It is. Complications became the norm. So many distractions that lead to pain.

This simplifying of things, getting ourselves out of harm's way, is more peaceful. We changed when we got into these messes, and we'll change now, getting out of them.

It's uncomfortable at first, feeling relieved, but I like it. I can get used to it.

I`m trying to figure this one out too. I have no idea who I am... .

I have a method that is really helping. OK, it's not helping, but it is making me feel better about myself and laugh in the midst of a storm. It might not be sane, but it does give me a few giggles: Whatever my uBPDh tells me that I am, well, I imagine the opposite of what he says.

If he says he hates my cooking, well, voilá, I must be an excellent cook! He´s the one with messed up taste buds!  :)

I have no idea at all.

I don't know if I ever wanted kids, but I wanted them with her.  The dreams we had, I don't know how we got to them and whose idea they were in the first place... .

Maybe I mirrored her?  Oh God!  Haha :)

I'm the same person, with gory wounds now which will turn into scars at some point. Have some anxiety and mood swings downwards, but I'm basically me. I don't define myself by who I am for others or my roles.(like I suspected.she does... . then I found confirmation of that in a journal entry); rather, I define myself by my core values, which are the foundations of my interpersonal.relationships and how I treat others.

What are you core values? You still have them. The pwBPD hasn't driven them from you fully.

Honestly, I'm not sure anymore. I've been so bruised by it I now feel as if I'm the ill one.  I recognise a lot of her in myself that I'm pretty sure I didn't have before I met her & that's quite scary.

It drives me insane that I can't get her out of my head even tho it's been nearly two months now since we split. I know I'm letting it affect me much more than I should.

I totally understand this. I find myself telling my therapist often that some behaviors I know I do are "learned". I've been doing a ton of soul searching and I see that I am getting better for myself but I also know that I still have a lot to learn about myself and since we have a son and are currently still living together, although separated, it is easy to feel guilt and fall back into old patterns. It sucks.

We all must be pretty good people to put up with these lunatic BPDs for so long. We'd have to be, right?

Yes, I would say so.  I've seen and received such true human kindness on the boards, such openness, vulnerability, and strength - I think we all share some combo of qualities that made us susceptible to pwBPD in the first place but that also make us pretty good people.

I know my r/s with my exgfwBPD was so disorienting that I lost sight of myself and my confidence in what I had to offer or was looking for.  Gradually, it is getting better - I'm finding myself again.  However, although a lot of "myself" is what I used to be, I've also learned a lot and grown as a person.   Still growing and learning, hope to never get sucked into a BPD roller coaster again.

I've mentioned before on an old thread of mine, I feel corrupted. Jarred. Shaken. Disjointed. After an experience such as this, are we ever going to be the same as before? For me, answer remains unknown.

You got it Santa!

I am a very compassionate person, as I believe that everyone here is. My therapist says to be real careful not to get sucked into being an emotional caretaker for a lunatic again.

Who am I? No idea because I was a kid when I married my BPD. I may not know who I am, but I am learning, and loving every minute that my lunatic ex is out of my life! Eat my dust lunatic!  LOL

I knew before the BPD r/s... . met her in my early 20's... I was a world beater, in a fraternity, had my own business, drove a Corvette roadster, had friends... was an athlete. Planned on marrying her, was close to graduation (did graduate with honors)... and she dumped me and showed up hanging on a neighbor... I was shattered, took 5 yrs before I dated again, I married and was very timid compared to how I had been before the r/s with the pwBPD.

Then 25+ yrs later, she looked me up on FB, I heard her voice on phone and melted... ended up divorcing my wife, losing my job and 1/2 of everything I owned... and making a train wreck of my life. Her longest screaming/yelling in my face session was 7 hrs. I ended it finally... started seeing a T and was told I had all the symptoms of PTSD... but from it all what became clear was I had no dreams, desires, or sense of who I really was anymore. My confidence was shattered... . had an interview for something I am an acknowledged well known expert on... and I bombed it, was told it was because I didn't sound like I was sure I could do the work. Managed to keep working making good money, but now I have such a small outlook/hope compared to how I once was... . hard to believe I am same person. I would have a hard time giving a summary of who I am... . my own narrative doesn't sound like I could have done all the positive things I have done. Leaves you feeling lost and searching.

I am a different person for sure.  My best friend always teases me about it.  He says " I wonder what the new "Waifed" is going to be like once he comes out of this".  He is shocked at how different I am.  I am not really sure who I am or what I want out of life.  My self esteem is beginning to reappear and my depression is lifting.  After 4 months of therapy I am making really good progress on my childhood issues.  I have accepted them and realize that most of it was in my mind.  I have dealt with my passive aggressive issues and fear of abandonment, but the fear of engulfment is still a really tough one for me to overcome.  I have looked back at my previous relationships and realized that I always dumped the healthy ones pretty early on in the relationship.  I have dated a couple of women with borderline traits but likely not full blown BPD.  At one point I was afraid that I was Borderline, but my therapist says that is normal to feel that way after a BPD relationship.  I would never treat people the way a borderline does so I know I am not!    

I look forward to the day in the near future when I can look her in the eye and laugh in her face.  Hopefully I will be so indifferent that it will never come to that. 

Hey simplyasiam and friends,

I guess I'm lucky because I discovered that there was a tiny pilot light still on after the BPD tsunami hit.  I lost touch with myself, as all of you describe above, yet that little flame remained.  To paraphrase Dante, I found myself lost in a dark wood with no discernible path out, yet I still had a spark left of my former self.  Not much, but something to start a campfire with.  Maybe others will find a similar spark, if you look closely enough.

Lucky Jim

Yes, neither would I. I started zeroing in on her moral behaviors vis-a-vis interpersonal relationships like two years ago. I thought, "what the heck is wrong with her that she treats people like that?" Even though in moments of honesty, she said, "when I am in pain, I want others to feel mine!" Are you kidding me?

In that, I--- like you, am incompatible with her. Her core values, leaving aside the probably BPD and other issues she has, are diametrically opposed to most of mine. I thus conclude a lot of it was mirroring because she doesn't know who SHE is. She fills roles, and thinks of herself like that. I do those things, too, but they do not define me. They don't define you either, the role of Broken Waifed and Turkish the least of them.  She became more of a person for a time by mirroring me. I never thought I became less of a person, despite being enmeshed in my codependency for a few years. I now leave that to someone else.

An interesting thought on roles I just had... . she says she wants to be a better "friend, lover, mother, daughter... . " etc. If I don't meet a standard in something, I say to myself, "I was not as good a friend to X as I have been, I need to work on that," or, "I said something not right to my mother, I need to rectify that." In no way would I ever say "I need to be a better 'friend' [to anyone in general]" because all of my friends think I am a pretty good one. Perhaps she thinks that she fills those roles to anyone (as we all do from a top level perspective), but she is looking to be that for anyone. To fill a void. I prefer to think of myself as not having a void inside of me; rather, I have room to accept more. Not sure if I explained all that correctly... I had a thought, and it was fleeting.

I know who I am - same core values; but 3 years ago, I was lost, scared, angry, emotionally fragile and very much felt like all I knew to be true was a lie.

Pain - any sort of deep pain - will change someone... . it is supposed to, we are supposed to change, evolve - part of the human experience really.  At the same time my boundaries are stronger, my heart is more compassionate now - this happens with pain.

Change isn't a bad thing and while lost in the process, can seem like it lasts forever.  Balance will happen and when it does, the steady feeling is like none that I have had before.

Peace,

SB

This is the one thing I will work on as a priority. My mom, from whom I may get some "rescuer" traits, according to my T (makes sense, in addition to her being disordered), still tries to rescue waifs and children... usually checkered people. She's almost 73 and told me the other day that she needs to erect boundaries and that she is getting better at it. I said, "good for you." Finally.

Nice post SB.  Boundaries... . I forgot about those.  By the end of the 3 year relationship I had pretty much lost all boundaries.  It was not just in the relationship.  I was flying off the handle at work too.  Some of the things I said to her were horrible.  I told her she was just a piece of meat for everyone to ___ (Her response was "OK".  I told her she was just a trashy slut and more.  I am ashamed of some of my actions towards the end of the relationship.  I am very aware of boundaries now.  I catch myself at times with thoughts that are outside the normal.  I am aware enough to change my course of action before I cross it.  I have better boundaries now than what I had before this relationship began.  I am improving myself. 

That is a good reinforcement that boundaries aren't about others, they're about us.

Bingo!

Falling apart, rebuilding ourselves for real - not based on what others think or on who we should be equals authentic self worth.  With a real sense of worth, boundaries are an extension of love... . love of self and love of another.  We cannot love truly unless we can be honest with who we are and know what we need to be our best selves - boundaries give us the best chance to be authentic and show love... . unconditionally.

I do not... I feel lost, empty... . like I am just floating through the days... not even with much thought anymore... . I used to be a vibrant ray of sunshine... no longer...

I am fuc_ing loveable!

I am beautiful, kind and generous. I am strong willed, stubborn and defiant.

I am still me only more "informed".

If anything this experience led me to realize serious changes need to be made or I will never have a tender, loving and true relationship. I will keep attracting Borderlines.

This truly has been the gift of the borderline. Am I happy I went through this? Wouldn't say it's been a highlight of my 40 years but it hopefully will positively affect the way I live the next 40.

we probably are mostly good people, but i'd say it has less to do with that  and more to do with how we fit together b/c of the needs we BOTH had, that drew us together like a magnet. 

there's always a pay-off, conscious or not, when we do anything ~ especially when we do something with someone that causes us pain over and over and over yet we stay and stay and stay.  many of us stayed so long that we have built up toxic venom that is proving very hard to get rid of... . but the only one it hurts is us.  the pwBPD is probably fairly oblivious to our on-going pain, especially if we are NC.

PS:  if Nons are 'good people' then by default the pwBPD are 'bad people'?  in what beneficial way(s) do you find that line of thought serving you?

I have no idea why my uxhwBPD picked me to marry.

He said that I was his answered prayer, but now I see that meant different things to each of us.

I thought it meant that he loved me, for me.

He thought that he needed me in order to feel normal.

Didn't work, did it?

Now #4 can be needed. And frankly, it's a thankless job.

L

Maybe, but we need to remind ourselves that although we may have some emotinal maturity issues, they are effectively children at that level. Mine idealized me as the perfect man less than two years ago, then abandoned and cheated on me. Even last month, after a forced confrontation about her and her X, she admitted that she knew I was the 'perfect guy', but that she was just not ready for it.

What does that mean? I could speculate on it. And I wish she had decided that before 6 years and two kids... . but they feel in the moment, while playing out a script from their past. It is something frustrating to try and understand, and sometimes we need to take it as it is, and them as they are and try to move on the best that we can just being ourselves.

Hey Turkish-

Yes we can speculate all we like. But the difference here (?) is that I mistakenly thought my uxhwBPD felt towards me the same way I felt towards him. This was my fatal error. And one I won't make again.

But, if I had any questions about what I want from a relationship in the future, I sure as heck don't have any now! I know exactly what I DON'T want, anything or anyone like my x.

I hope that is "moving on" because that's the closest I can come to it today.

L

I've discovered that I am a happy person. I've even identified moments of joy since the split. I remarked to my s22 the other day that there has been no yelling in the house since he left, so what was all that yelling even about?

this makes me wince ~ i have it on pretty good authority (an experienced clinical psychologist) who says that people choose partners who have the same emotional maturity.  it sounds reasonable... . but if it's true, and if it's also true that our pwBPD have the emotional maturity of a 5 year old... . then i don't like (or understand) what that sez abt me.   


well put and beautifully said.

I think there is some truth to that. However, most of our partners played out abusive behaviors which we would not. Leave aside the possible codependency issues on our side, and what does that say about our emotional maturity compared to theirs? On the outside we are all adults. Maybe we are child like people pleasers, but it does not excuse abuse. Maybe that is more of an adult moral judgement... . I fully acknowledge the father-daughter r/s with mine... . immature, sure, but at the same level?

well, i surely wouldn't say that 'nons' are all good people. i don't think having been in an abusive r/s necessarily makes you 'good'. however, absolutely yes i do consider pwBPD bad people--at least in the context of their relationships. doesn't mean they have to stay bad, that's not up to me. i call a spade a spade though.

I haven't lost my identity at all. Probably bc my previous divorce though amicable involved very young children--consequently the stakes were higher. This 7 year experience with my pwBPD has left me curious, baffled and introspective in a number of ways. I definitely define myself as a father-first, career-second, and relationship-third. I've had over 25 years in two relationships, so that's my context. I'm ok with silence. The bizarre part has been the rengagements. Unlike anything before, we seem to hook up every so often, and when we do it seems like we should still be together, granted she's impossible. Still we remain sort of fu@ked up family. She's just not relationship material, whatever that means.

We do find our own level... . we grow up looking for the kind of experience we had as kids... but we deny we are doing it.

We respond with electricity to someone that matches our model of love... and it comes from our early FOO experience. 

When people are not developmentally perfect... they get stuck at an earlier stage of development... . and they use ego defenses to turn their fears in to justifications for why they do stuff. Instead of being afraid to meet people or get close... . they are rugged individualist... the cowboy that rides alone. We have been badly hurt in our r/s with pwBPD... and gladly will blame them 100%... and they are at least 50% of the problem... and we are the other 50%... . has to be, we are the other one in the r/s.

It is our ego that keeps us stressed out and ruminating... . we really don't want to accept bad news... . and the idea that our dream person that we thought was wonderful... is disordered is hard to accept, idea that we have our own issues that drew us to that person... . to many is beyond what they will accept. The idea that you grew up in a disordered family... had lots of bad experiences... . and came out of it unscathed because you are special somehow... . we can accept that. Only our pwBPD seemed to recognize how special we are in that way. Everyone else looks at us and either doesn't get why we are so bent out of shape about a breakup... . or they think we need to get help ourselves.

If your pwBPD is outgoing type... rants, raves... be sure to read about waif types... and NPD... as you very well may find that one or both of your folks had PD type issues. My dad I knew was NPD... no missing it, but mom just was passive-aggressive... . didn't seem like my pwBPD... . but now I see she was just like her... only turning everything inward not outward.

I am still wondering who I am ... now that I see my FOO differently... . and realize how much of what I did was ego defense driven... whats under it all?

See... . he gets it.

Totally with you there. I'm getting some of my sun-shinyness back, though dammit. It's staying strong that is difficult. I know my inner light is still there, but I forgot where I put it for a loonnnnnggggg time. 

this does seem to be the dynamic for the majority of people here. however my personal views on my r/s differ somewhat, and i've come to accept that this simply isn't the experience that many nons can identify with.

for me personally, i totally agree that i was 50% of the relationship. i totally disagree that i was 50% or even close to 50% of the problems in the r/s. take any other long term r/s i've been in, and yes i will share 50/50. but my r/s with BPD was the exception, not the rule for long term r/s i've been in thus far (and this includes a healthy r/s after xBPD which allowed me to further figure out who i was).

for all the introspection, meditation and self awareness practices i've done i just don't see any connection to wrongdoings from my parents/family or traumatic childhood experiences that made me into a sort of BPD magnet. however, i do see something that i've always felt since childhood as contributing to me really wanting the r/s to work. for me, it was physical appearance--and trust that i would never settle for a 'trophy' wife or gf. there was dedication and 'love' (if you will) coming from both of us in the r/s. however i realize that a lot of my ego was attached to how physically attracted i was to my ex; and now i'm simply working to recalibrate this need of mine and find some balance.

really i feel like i was able to overcome fears of commitment (or possibly marriage) since i had found someone who i was attracted enough to to make this kind of commitment. in a way i felt safe because i felt like i could stop seeking; so now the difficult introspection i'm doing is figuring out what truly am i seeking and is it 100% solid. and no i don't think i need to throw physical attractiveness out the window, but it needs to be examined and balanced. but none of this struggle, again, for me personally, has to do with any tragedies from childhood or issues from my FOO upbringing. i'm always open to the possibility though, but so far i feel that this is closest to my real truth.

I don't think I was 50% of the problem... maybe 20%... . my pwBPD was intensely problematic. She had been divorced twice, had 7 engagements and didn't even know how many BF's... long history of unstable r/s.  I was married 22 yrs without major issues... . till my pwBPD came back in to my life.

Commitment isn't what triggers people usually, engulfment is the big trigger. Read a book called "Healing Developmental Trauma"... . and it left me really irritated... . it had a lot of information about typical ego defenses ... . but once I found my balance and thought about it... . it nailed many mysteries of behavior. There are a lot of people that seem to have an irrational commitment to things like political parties that do the opposite of what they need in their lives... and when you try to calmly discuss these subjects... you see them tense up, voices go shrill and rationality is out the door... most the time it is some ego defense they are very sensitive about behind it. The more issues we have the more ego defenses... . if you have a long list of what makes you who you are... . and came from a FOO with a lot of issues... . your list is pretty likely to be full of items that could easily be ego defenses.

I didn't see my mom as disordered until very recently... . she didn't act horrific like my pwBPD... . but reading up on BPD... some act out and some act in... . and the acting in description met her perfectly... . and her life history of having her mother die when she was 5 and her father then dump her on her grandparents till she was 13 (basically both parent abandoning her... one permanently)... had a profound effect on her... . she is traumatized being around little kids like the little sisters she had to take care of. She is better with boys... but handles kids till they are about 5 like they are diseased rodents... or something that should be picked up with a tong and tossed out... . amazingly uncomfortable to witness. However I don't remember being treated like that... just the feeling I could never get close to her... . it was seeing her with my daughter that gave me pause to reconsider.

When you visit another family and hang out with them... . it seems like the family issues just pop out at you... when you talk to people some know and talk of issues... . others will swear they had a "perfect" childhood and get defensive. Most of us didn't have trouble free upbringings... I had issues in mine, but really thought I wasn't effected... . then that I was barely touched by it... now I realize much of what I took as my self, my personality... is directly the result of FOO issues and ego defenses... . no wonder you rarely hear this. Realizing my pwBPD was attractive to me because of similarity to my mothers disorder  Sex being creepy eventually with pwBPD for no reason... . now I see reasons   Dreamgirl was disordered with emotional maturity of 3-4 yr old   All of that is very unpleasant... much nicer to think "but I am blame free and a non"... . I am finding it is harder to be honest with yourself and accept ego deflating truths than to evade them. The truth is we have great qualities we don't accept and some issues we also don't accept... and that ego defensive part of us... is where the BPD r/s lives, its where you ruminate over how wonderful 10% of the time with your abusive partner and how you want that back... and manage to rationalize away the other 90% ... the abusive part. If you were able to do that very well... you probably have some ego defensive issues and the "Healing Developmental Trauma" book would sting and make you recoil... but it still would have some truth to it... . the painful to hear kind.

Letting down some of my defensiveness... . helped open my eyes... but so much was ego defenses... what is left... that is why I am a bit unsure of who I really am... . and I did really get a lot of abuse in the BPD r/s.