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These last days i'm reading a lot about "validation" and it doesn't make me feel good at myself.

During my r/s i knew pratically nothing about BPD so even less about right tools to menage it... . and thinking about the past,what happened,i figuered out that often i didn't validate her feelings in a properly way... . i tried on my way to comfort her but i did it wrong probably... . and happened,sometimes,that i was so desesperate by her incessant crying and the feeling that she was manipulating me with her behaviours that i raged at her... . or just did nothing... . i feel so awful and guilty for that  :'( i'll never forgive myself for my behaviours.

I'm a good person,but i acted very bad sometimes.

If i was a better human kind,maybe we were still together now... . to don't be aware about how BPD works it's not a guilt,but there are no excuses for what i've done anyway.

Poor her  :'( feeling really bad.

Had you given her validation would have only prolonged the inevitable; your expwBPD would have most likely still idealized, devalued, and ultimately discarded you. There is no win. Read all the accounts on here. It is not a happy read. Hang in there.

Yes, best the relationship die sooner rather than later.  In Vietnam they used to say that if u were going die it was better to get it in the first few days, the logic being that you didn't suffer as much.  My expwBPD referred to our relationship as a war.  She was not far from the truth, except she was fighting herself and I was fighting an illusion.

Starting from the point that i really appreciate the Platoon's movie quote about when would be better to die in Vietnam  :) that is exactly what i'm saying in loop to myself... . that even if i was the most powerful good boyfriend who ever walked the earth things were meant to fall apart anyway.

The problem is that i don't believe it... . what we do?

Hi Nicco, good to hear from you again.

I am going through this exact same thing, like I didn't validate her properly, and I could have made it better if I had understood. But really, how could we not have understood unless it got to this point? Have you ever had to work soo hard at a r/s before?

And here is one more thing to consider: how did she every lovingly validate YOU?

I agree with Ironman, though it is a hard thing to wrap one's mind around... . it would probably have only prolonged the inevitable, and you may have been walking on eggshells for years. Read the Staying and Undecided Boards if you have doubt. The success stories seem to be few and far between... . not that we  are exactly representative of the population of people dealing with pwBPD... . we're hear for a reason: frustration and the search for knowledge and healing. How many nons are discontent to live their private hells and suffer in silence?

Ouch, are you me?

I did the same, tried to comfort her but it was just a matter of time before she'd cry again or manipulate me with her behaviours to get what she wanted (Me on a leash basically)

I raged at the end as well (Via txt, in person she had ways of spinning things to keep me hooked) & she disappeared.

It's taken me a... . long time to forgive myself for it. I don't think I ever truly will but like me, you will in time realise that your emotions were at complete and utter breaking point & what you did was a defence mechanlism kicking in over how badly you'd been treated.

If they can't handle being told some hard truths at times then do you really want to be in a relationship with them? Someone who ignores/belittles your feelings & instead chooses to run away and start the rollercoaster with someone else?

You'll also realise that you simply could not have ever "won" and gotten what you wanted/deserved which was a loving 50/50 relationship, they just aren't capable of it. For a long time I thought... . what if I hadn't raged at her, what if I'd just carried on a bit longer... .

By getting out NOW you've saved yourself, I put EVERYTHING into it for 8/12 months & it was slowly turning me into a shell of a person. If I was still on that rollercoaster I think eventually I'd have lost everything.


Believe me, it does get easier in time. Just hang in there.

You have to have a life independent of the pwBPD for it to work. You have to emotionally detach yourself. To me, that defeats the very purpose of a relationship.

Right, or even a friendship. I TRIED that, really tried it but the only way to make that work was to invest myself almost as heavily as before. You STILL lose.

Friends don't treat me as badly as she did.

If I have to emotionally detach myself (like I've been doing) to be her friend, then she can't ever be my friend as like pretty much everyone else here, I have emotional ties to my friends & not having them would defeat the point in friendship to me.

Only during idealization. Than it vanishes. Only to reappear when the  pwBPD returns to re-idealize. To than vanish yet again. Futile. No point.


Same thing for me. As she started to get close to me and "like" me in that way, her god awful behavior started appearing. No win.

Yeah! We'd have a few weeks of lovelyness but as soon as she realised that she was getting close again and actually enjoying herself, I started getting the awful behavour & lies again. I should have told her to get lost. I tried, I really tried but then I'd get pulled back in again. It was so, so draining.

I *told* her this. She just didn't care.

Even without knowing that my ex had BPD (she withheld the diagnosis from me), I did a decent job of handling it.  When she would cry (which was pretty often) she would then apologize for it.  I always told her that she had a right to her feelings.  I also did good at remaining detached enough that I was pretty good at not being manipulated by her.  When she would start to get worked up I would calmly tell her to take a second and take some deep breaths and she would settle down a bit and we could talk about things.  All in all i think this is why we lasted a year and a half without any major blow outs.

In the end she still lied, still tried to manipulate, still cheated, and still ended up discarding me.  Don't beat yourself up.  The reality is that you really could have been the greatest partner ever and she still would have left.  You say you didn't have the right tools, well how could you?  Unless she came to you, told you she had BPD, and then asked you to attend therapy together to learn how to be in a relationship together, I can't see you are truly to blame for not having those tools.

BPD is a minefield.  What can be a trigger one day isn't one the next.  What isn't a trigger today is one tomorrow.

As did I. My words were never registered in the proper form. Lost in the forever neverending whirlpool of destruction that swirls around a pwBPD.

Nicco,

  I can say from my experience (17 years) that no form of validation makes a difference. It minimizes fights, but does not create a healthy relationship. You could have validated her the whole time (I did) and the fights and rages would not have been any different. There would have been fewer, but still enough to NOT be normal.

   At least in my relationship, validation did not avoid the harm. They more you validate the more they control you. It becomes all about them. Nothing is about you.

   I had to be there for him 100% of the time. He was never there for me.

   Validation only works if you are on the staying board and if you keep three steps back emotionally - the whole time. You would be listening to what the pwBPD is saying, telling them you understand and care and that their feelings are being heard, but you really can't let them in... .

So even if you validated and tried harder, yes, it would have avoided a few fights. But it still would not have been healthy relationship.

 

 

hi nicco plz learn to be compassionate with yourself... . forgive... . you did the best you could, we all did?  we were not armed properly for this enemy called BPD!

my exBPDgf however WAS armed.  heavily.  she had a degree in social services, had been Dx'd BPD and so had taken DBT classes, so she knew all the buzz words and was highly skilled at not only manipulating me but also validating me.  it's probably the main reason it's been so long n hard to let go of her emotionally ~ because she validated me in an awesome way that no one else ever had.  OTOH, she was also capable of cruel INvalidating at times.  it was, as they say 'the best of times and the worst of times"... .

during the Final Hour when my stbxw revealed her betrayal, she said she hadn't felt "cherished." but the whole history of our relationship, back before the marriage even when we were friends or acquaintances, was marked by her endless attempts, her infinite capacity, to feel hurt. and so after the end, when we met twice, it was a broken record. me: "don't you remember any good times?" she: "yes, but the bad times... . "; me: "we had such fun that day!" she: "yes, but the day before... . "; she "you took me for granted by leaving me upstairs!" me: "i was downstairs doing our laundry!" (yes, we had that exchange). etc etc. in my last communication with her (an email in which i poured myself out and she said she wasn't going to read), i said she'd never feel cherished as long as she was looking for ways to feel hurt.

how do you validate someone like that? nicco i too am mortified by how i reacted sometimes. i got impatient, i got sarcastic, i got JADEd, i ran out of the house to cool off. but even if i had validated her on the most non-patronizing possible way, and even if i had asserted boundaries in the calmest and maturest fashion, i don't know if it would have mattered. the sense of rejection may have welled up inside her and overflowed at some point anyway.

also:


it's a measure of my co-dependency, or depression, or something, that it didn't occur to me to ask myself this question explicitly during the marriage.

I've been feeling this way too. The more I learn about BPD and the techniques for managing it, the more I wonder if I could have made it work. But... . many of the things I was doing were correct according to the recommendations - I even tried validation (I remembered it from a conflict resolution class I took years ago). But very 'episode' was slightly different, almost like she was evolving to evade my best intentions. 

I really appreciated the feedback from those of you who *did* try validation. I feel less guilt, hearing your stories.

Nice point, Turkish! My SO *never* validated me. It was like my emotions didn't exist for her - especially during a rage episode.

 yes, maxen, " you were more concerned with painting the house than me!"  though I  tired and tried to get her involved.  no matter.  it wasn't meeting her needs.  what about the needs of our household?  childish.

it's extremely stressful when we centred ourselves around constantly navigating and trying to meet the needs of an empty person.  we lose ourselves in the process.  it isn't and wasn't healthy.  time to focus on ourselves.  we have every right to,  and that is in no way selfish at all.

You know, I think we all do this to ourselves and it's not good for us. In a normal relationship if someone is not feeling validated usually they can express this.  Mine would never say anything until she dumped me... . and she always dumped me with someone waiting in the wings.

It's not you. Yes, it takes two but again, there is no communication with a BPD, just projection and blame. They feel so miserable about themselves and if you validate that you are painted black.

My last words to my ex were that she didn't love herself and she would never be happy.  She emailed me back: I'm fine, thank you.

to which I answered, "At least someone is with you".

Mean, yes. And I did email an apology but in the greater scheme of things, no matter what was said, this was never going to work. They cannot successfully have relationship and each one they pick tends to be worse.

Had to laugh at that one.  My favorite was when I came home from work for lunch JUST to talk to her about something else I had 'done'.  I told her at the beginning - I have a meeting at 1:30.  I have to leave at 1.  Of course, an hour later I hear " I can't believe you would choose your JOB over me. After everything I've done for you!"   Yeah, that silly job that provides 100% of our income. 

Sad part is... . I think I actually stayed and missed that meeting, only to have the same conversation a half hour later.  This time I left mid sentance and made it back for my 2 pm meeting.  See where that initial validation got me?  Nowhere.  Boggles the mind sometime.

Nicco,

I understand how you feel. I was very kind and compassionate toward my ex, even when she was devaluing me and destroying the r/s. They don't think the same way we do. It doesn't really matter what you say or do. Either they are extremely happy or extremely not happy. Mine was probably as kind as she could have been. During devaluing she told me that she didn't always tell me what she was thinking. How was I supposed to know who she really was? Also that she was pissed that everyone said I was really nice and we looked good together after they found out we postponed things. She said it took more than nice to make a marriage... . which is true... . but it also shouldn't be a war. A close family friend of her family told me that I had a very kind and gentle spirit. So, just thinking about it, how could she find a mate who was much kinder than I was? It was pretty much the consensus among others that I was a good dude. I took care of her and her child... . a lot of stuff! After we broke up and she revealed a little more of herself, I told her I hoped she got better. I sensed that she was very hurt when I was with her, and I recognized that. I was being very genuine and compassionate. But she accused me of being very condescending to her. I can understand that to a degree, but you know, how can you have peace with someone who is always second-guessing?

I saw a post recently when someone suggested it's just false to think the Universe or other people will treat you well simply because you are a good person. I think that's one of the best lessons I've learned from this. And that you can't change who people are... . and that people rarely ever make a change unless they hit rock bottom.

It's taken me a few years but I've reached the point when I know it's best for me to move on and let her deal with herself. Validating her may have prolonged the r/s longer, but I don't think I would've stayed with someone who created so much unnecessary drama. I'm not sure there's much more to be done until/unless she was very mature and in therapy... . which is also pretty rare.

Mine's family knows that about me, too. Her mom several times called me "a good man" to her. No matter. She will never meet someone as kind, gentle and mature as me, given her track record. She thinks she found someone kind and gentle... . the love addict who is all into proving himself on the ball field... . obviously a dude with latent anger issues, can't wait to see that one blow up in her face... . but he sure as heck isn't mature, responsible, nor been through the wringer of life as I have to give him any kind of bulwark against the storms of life. She threw away the best thing she ever had, in one of the worse possible ways, like yours did with you. Like most of them did with all of us. Their loss. As Ironman says in his .sig: "Congratulations, you lost me."

I find this thread disgusting, not sure who is asking this question but it feels wrong.

You're asking us if we were not thoughtful enough?

I think most of us here put heart soul finances emotions into our relationships with these demons and they lied to us from the beginning. They a used us physically mentally emotionally and financially. Your question seems to suggest that we didn't give enough or we could have changed the RS if we were clever enough to know something we didn't ?

This feels a bit turning the mirror around, transference, projection.

What do you really want to say!

It was our faults?

Please!

Pay some respect to the disorder and to the abused broken people trying to scramble some semblance of hope, self respect, love, physical health and trust back.

God bless everyone here.

Nicco, it's okay to have the feeling that you didn't work hard enough. That would make anybody feel bad in the aftermath of a breakup whether or not BPD is involved. You must also look at the facts: a relationship is a bond created by two people. You are not powerful enough to make her love you, solve her problems, or cure her BPD. That is a simple impossibility.

A person with BPD is NOT a jigsaw puzzle to put together where if only you knew what the entire picture looked like then you could solve it. They are mentally ill people, not a problem to solve or a broken machine to fix. If you have any doubts, please go read the Staying board stories and see that there are plenty of people who are in failing relationships. Communication tools are not solutions and cures.

I  feel like I've solved it,  and it's more like that puzzle box from Hellraiser.  it helps me keep in my mind to never let her recycle me,  never... .   though I  think there is a good chance of it  later. T  asked me that today,  and I  instantly said NO!

Nicco, your post are the same thoughts that I had a few months ago. I wished that I had validated her feelings and perhaps we would of still been together and I would of understood her better. I wished that I had found this board earlier and learn the tools.

I may of pushed the yard-stick out further for the inevitable end. I did the best that I could of done in a situation that I didn't understand. I wasn't the perfect husband and I'm not going to project myself on the ex, even though she can't defend herself. The fighting I did with her in the end was because I was defending myself, my psyche and my core beliefs. There were a lot of times that I wish that I had taken the high road, but this woman knew how to push my buttons like no other person. I got sucked in like many professionals, friends, family etc... .

Let's not be hard on ourselves for not understanding, trying to make something work that just can't and something that has an eventual demise.

I'm glad that I know what validation is now, I do use it on STBX from time to time to keep things smooth, but I use it more so on my kids.

I think one problem on our non-BPD side is denial. We are in denial that we are powerless to change our pwBPD. We do have power, but it's only the power to change ourselves and our reactions.

And another thing that many of us deny is that our pwBPD is both the "good" and the "bad" all rolled into one, not just a "good" person with "bad" habits. That somehow if we managed their "bad" habits we'd just be left with the "good" stuff.

In some ways it's a lot like being in a relationship with an alcoholic. You can take away their car keys, throw away all the alcohol, try to keep an eye on them 24/7, but you can never work hard enough to cure them or fix them because that's not in your power to do. The same is true of a person with BPD.

This is a little different to the "good" and "bad" balance, but I recalled until the very end, hoping, yearning, missing and wishing that the pwBPD that I had met at the very beggining, idealization was going to show up again and give me attention, adulation and love. I think that I was denial in that context as well. I was ignoring all of the really bad behaviors and treatment and focused on that "good" fantasy to return. That wasn't realistic.

you know i never felt bad or had an ounce of regret about anything i said or did to my ex, and for that i am grateful. i just realize that the 'bad' things i said were said because i was defending myself and trying to stay above water. honestly i feel my ex *wanted* to hear this stuff. she *wants* to be treated this way to justify being who she is at her core, where there's a lot of dishonesty and toxicity.

after leaving the r/s i was a bit shook up and i thought that perhaps i had anger issues. and, well, i did have anger issues--in the context of being around an abusive manipulative woman. listen, getting you riled up and doing bad things is sport for pwBPD, they thrive off of it. so you have to give yourself a break.

as i got more seasoned dealing with her behaviors, i was able to deal with things more calmly. i was able to walk away more and not participate in arguments -- boy did being respectful on my part piss her the hell off! the whole point of her talking at that point was just to get me to react. so if i didn't react or even tried to be loving then she just got worse and worse to try and get a negative response.

me feel guilty? please :) she's gotten worse responses from plenty of people since we broke up. and i haven't treated anyone that bad since, even when arguing. i think the guilt you feel right now may be lessened if you think about how many men she's duped into feeling guilty like you--how many other good guys are out there thinking they could have done better by her? so many we don't want to think about it.

that does leave the fact that perhaps you said/did things that were out of character for you. and rightfully so you want to examine this stuff and forgive yourself; this is healthy. but guilt on her part? that's for the birds my man. to me it sounds less like guilt and more like the last stages of detachment where you may be clinging to the idea that she isn't what she is. she is.

Thanks all for the answers.

I'll just a lil bit of time to read everything and reply... . plus since i live in Italy so in a different time zone we live,work,sleep,whatever on different times :D

very helpful post.

This is where I'm at now. I was defending the way I was being treat by her. I never raged at her in person, all our arguments were via txt. We'd meet up and mutually agree on boundaries only for her to act completely differently afterwards. This went on for months

I even *told* her in the end that it felt like she wanted me to pop/rage so she had an excuse in her head to make me out as the "bad guy" when all I'd done was be the perfect friend to her. I felt terrible at the time but I was left with no other choice.


This is also true. As it gets longer and longer since I last spoke to her I think... maybe she wasn't ill... . maybe I did wrong, ignored what she was saying & wasn't caring enough.

Then I realise that it wasn't possible for me to care anymore than I did, it was breaking me as a person.

I also remember that when I first came here, EVERYTHING matched her up to a letter & still does.

Hi Turkish

indeed this was absolutely the most challenging r/s i ever had... . foundamentally was a challenge under every point of view,i don't remember a REAL relaxed time even when things with her seemed quiet.

And you pinted on a point i didn't thought about indeed,i had an a ha moment right now... . did she validate my feelings,needs?I would love to reply "yes" but i can't... . for example i'm thinking right now about how much she tried to force me to be the "perfect" father of her son since the early beginning... . i mean,i'm 27 and i passed from university life to family life in one step... . it's a process that require a lil bit of time i guess... . especially to build a r/s with a child... . i tried to explain her that i really wanted to take care of him too but that i just needed time to take the habit and build a connection with him... . she was upset by this cause she was dreaming a "wonderful family time" (when i met her she told she wanted just to build a lovely family... later in time,during devaluation,she told me the contrary) while me i just asked time,nothing else,cause i wasn't able to become the perfect father from today to tomorrow... . as result asking this i got her upset,raging and after harming herself... . and me feeling guilty for everything.


Brilliant thought too... . absolutely agree with you Ironman.


I'm sorry to read that you done so much to get so few.

Even avoiding EVERY trigger i guess that the stress load would be just unsustainable... . and plus there's the risk to see everything go to hell just for a wrong word once in a while.Terrible.


That's something i'm still not able to deal with.Maybe i will in time,maybe i'm just still in the FOG,but i find out myself thinking about this pretty often for now.For sure i made something wrong... . happened that i said i would have done something and than i didn't... . even simple things... . she told that she hates people who say something without act suddenly in that way... . sometimes she was right probably,especially for simple things... . i didn't knew it could have such a terrible effect on her.


Hi Changingman

sorry if i offended you with my words,wasn't my intention and plus english is just a second language for me,maybe i didn't explained well what i meant.

Off course everything i write belongs just to my PERSONAL situation and r/s... . i'm not suggesting nothing about how other people here could have menaged their r/s... . and for nothing in the world i could think that is OUR fault,i know that ALL people here gave everything possible to make it work... . i just feel that if I knew something more about BPD maybe things could have been different for MINE r/s... . probably not anyway.

Why you talk about transference and projection? I find it very interesting and would love to get an explanation.

I apologize again with you if i wrote something offensive for you.


Another very good point... . i'm just praying to leave those kind of fantasies as sooner as i can too.Rationally i know everything... . emotionally,i'm still totally blind and focused on her.


Hi there

me i still feel in the early stages of detachement... . actually i feel a big mess in my head and heart... . i'm just moving forward and backward inside all the stages... . every single day... . i wake up thinking and feeling at something,i go to sleep thinking and feeling something else... . every day,in loop... . i'm feeling totally destroyed and splitted in thousand of pieces and i don't find a way keep the same feelings and thoughts for more than one day... . sometimes in the same hour too... . is what is exhausting me the most... . i'm not able to keep the same feelings and thought about her or the r/s or my will to have her back... . i'm really tired.Ruminating strongly.

Peace to everybody.

I get it.  I do. 

She used to blame all her over the top behavior on her having a BIG HEART... . which is another way of saying she is WAY over the top emotionally. 

Thing I have to remind myself is... . it's a bottomless pit.  I'm sure you did your best.  Honestly.  But even if you'd added more love and validation and acceptance onto how SHE feels it NEVER would have been enough.  It never is!  That's the nature of the beast once you hit the devaluation cycle... . which you ALWAYS hit because you're not this GOD she portrayed you to be in her mind... . you're human and have flaws and eventually she starts to see them and then pushes you off the pedestal with as much enthusiasm as putting you on it. 

Validate.  I'm guessing she gave you a list of things she wanted you to improve about yourself, but when you did the same she either got ANGRY or just blew it off and gave it lip service.  Admitting any kind of flaw about themselves is simply too damaging to their fragile little ego.  They can't do it.  They have to be perfect or admit that they are complete and total train wrecks... . which goes against every survival instinct they have.

It would have ended.  And to be honest man, when she finds someone else she will NOT care.  She won't.  Because another guy will be worshipping her and saying she's perfect... . which she has to be to survive. 

My ex has a new guy.  She doesn't think about me except to hate me.  She remembers none of the good times.  None of the sacrifices i made for her.  None of the abuse she poured on me.  She doesn't do this out of malice.  She does it because she has no object constancy, incredible difficulty accessing memories, and an inability to feel remorse for her actions.  She's a case of arrested development and has been like this since she was a little girl and will be like this when she's an old woman. 

Let it go.  It wasn't your fault.  Believe me.  There was NOTHING YOU could do.  Most therapists don't even treat BPD because they go from being saints to devils sometimes in the span of one session.  These are trained PROFESSIONALS!

Let it go.  Breathe.  She was like a hurricane.  A force of nature.  And now she's gone.  You can't reason with a hurricane.  You can't control it.  You can't make it better.  All you can do is pick yourself up and rebuild.    

Thanks for this... . gave me a lil bit of peace.

Exactly

Why i should be in the last state of detachement?

I really don't understand and i'm feeling anywhere else but for sure not in a "last stage" :/    

And anyway yes,sometimes i think about things i've done that for sure hurted her and it makes me suffer.

Maybe she doesn't has empathy or a heart in the way we mean,but me yes.

Nicco,

Feeling sympathy for her was one of my strongest hooks. All of the men who abused her, her sadness, etc.? I told my therapist when I saw her profile I thought she just needed a little TLC. I was attracted by her vulnerability. She wasn't a classic pwBPD... . more like the Waif/Hermit. Interestingly enough, a lot of my childhood dynamics almost set me up for a destructive r/s. I realize now she is living a very destructive pattern. It never really had anything to do with me. If she was healthy (and I related to her in a healthy way) we would have had a healthy relationship and I wouldn't be here.

Fast forward about 3 years and I do feel compassion for her, but I also accept that it's unlikely she will change or ever enjoy a nice relationship. As time goes by I enjoy peace more and more and feel more comfortable with a healthy intimacy with a healthy person. I'm no longer trying to rescue. That was my hook!

What are you doing to move forward? It's a tough journey. I went through a lot of depression, dealing with a very stressful work environment, and managing insulin-dependent diabetes. I look back, and I'm pretty amazed I even survived. I joined some meetup groups, a flag football league, and I pushed myself to get out even when I was miserable. After a while the FOG starts to clear and the next thing you know you are living life again though the pwBPD will always be an important event. It's not nearly as destructive.

hi Nicco, perhaps i used a poor choice of words. i think "last stage" is probably wrong for you. here is what i was trying to say -- during our recovery, each of us tends to hold onto the idea that things could work out, or could have worked out with our exes. and i am labeling this "false hope". we were/are hoping for something that isn't true. this false hope can manifest in a variety of ways. it can manifest as thinking that maybe you can reconcile things, when you can't. maybe you can recycle, but it will be worse. it can manifest by people saying "i love her and wish her well" even though this person was abusive to you and will continue to be abusive to your replacement and all the ones after that -- i think a lot of "well wishing" is rooted in the false hope that this person will get better and somehow the r/s between you two could work at some point. and it can also manifest as guilt; this false hope that perhaps *you* could change in some way that would make the r/s work; but it was never about you to begin with.

when i said "she is", what i meant is that she *is* an abusive person. and there's nothing we can do or could do about it. i've read too many stories and seen too much evidence to see otherwise. there are therapies that indicate they can improve the lives of the pwBPD; and this is all and well. however it's important to understand that these therapies do not indicate that this makes the r/s with nons that the pwBPD are with any better. meaning--they may stop cutting or may be less suicidal, but in general they still lie, cheat and manipulate their partners.

there is the concept of "radical acceptance". and part of radical acceptance is letting go of this false hope. uncovering why and how we are so attached to these notions and figuring out how we want to live right now and in the future.

I agree with most of what you wrote. However, don't be so sure she does not think of you. If she "hates" you now, it is because she is viewing you through the BPD lens post trigger and is idealizing someone else(current guy). Did she bring up previous exes when you were with her? If so, compare how they were described pre-trigger(idealization) and post-trigger(devaluation) and I can bet that her descriptions of those very exes were hallmark contrasts to one another; meaning in idealization with you, she hated them, they were bad, etc and in devaluation with you, those very same exes she all of a sudden "liked" again and saw them in a new light.  red-flag  This is what I experienced with my exUBPDgf. I heard the opposing viewpoints on the same exes. Once current guy triggers her, and he will, and that relationship goes to part; it will not a be a surprise if she no longer "hates" you. It may very well be she will start to re-idealize you(or someone else), which ever is an easier mark for her(its nothing personal) because that is how she sees people through the distorted BPD lens. A ___ing nightmare.

There was nothing you could do. Honestly.

I did stuff wrong in my relationship. You did stuff wrong in your relationship. Everyone does things wrong sometimes.

It wouldn't have mattered though.

If you'd been perfect, it still would have blown up. That's just what BPD do.

I drive myself crazy with what-ifs too. It's natural. Wouldn't have made a difference though.

Ironman, *thank you*

You just explained something that happened during the last 'rage episode' I experienced with my ex. She was well into a 'devaluation' of me and suddenly expressed regret about her last two relationships. Then, out of the blue, she explained that she was still in love with *both* of those people (people who she had hated and been hyper-critical of previously). Then she said that she only felt 'safe' with them and didn't feel 'safe' with me. Then she started berated herself for feeling that way and THEN berated me for 'being with someone who would say something like that'. What was wrong with me that I could possible care about her after she said those things... . etc... .

It was a nightmare at the time and VERY confusing (I had no idea my ex was BPD when this all happened). Now, put into context, it makes perfect sense.

Each time I'm able to understand an incident like this, I'm a bit easier on myself. I've been feeling bad, thinking I wasn't enough, that she didn't love me and I was somehow inherently flawed. I had questioned myself... .

It's such a relief to finally make sense of it all.

Wow. Thanks!

I know exactly how you feel. For the first two months into a mandatory 2 year NC with a frivolous protection order against me, I wanted her back so bad and to try harder to validate her, use the tools that I didn't know about, etc. I didn't even know about BPD until the day she left me last July. Since then I have been in weekly therapy and group DBT (for substance use disorder).

One of the things I learned is: "Woulda, shoulda, coulda... . " You cannot change the past. Stop blaming yourself. As many have said here, there probably wasn't anything you might have done differently that would have changed the outcome; they are programmed that way. Especially, as in my case, when they withhold the diagnosis from you.

Keep cheerful!

Yeah. I ruminated on the "Woulda, shoulda, coulda" for weeks. What if I hadn't been out drinking with my friends when she started a txt argument with me, what if I'd turned it off and just waited until I was more relaxed. What if I'd given her a bit more space (and let her keep treating me like garbage)

What if I'd called her out on her lies in person (we never EVER argued in person, she had ways of keeping me hooked)

What if I hadn't finally snapped and told her what a horrible person she was to keep doing this to people who care for her.

I re-read the txt's of our arguments over and over until I eventually just gave up and deleted them all.

I will always have regrets about the relationship but I did what I did at the time to protect myself from prolonging the pain. If I hadn't I would have eventually lost my entire self worth to her & my friendships would have been in ruins. It hurt like hell for a few months after but I'm slowly regaining my feet. The FOG does clear in time.

I had a minor relapse this week over something she's done to try and get attention from me but instead of sulking about it I've just laughed it off. It was nice to know tho that I'm still being painted black 3/4 months after the final push.