BPDFamily.com

Hi all -- I haven't been on these boards in awhile as I was starting to feel like my situation was hopeless and getting extremely depressed about it. 

Background... . father of my 3 children is most likely an UxBPDbf. We had been living together for 7 years now and things were getting increasingly worse over the year. I have been trying to end the relationship since Oct -- prob even before that, but that's when I decided it was over and tried to end it. Then I let up on that over the holidays to make things as peaceful as possible and planned on letting things go until the end of this month.

THEN last week, he went into one of his raging fits calling me horrible names and verbally terrorizing me. I had had enough and went and filed for a restraining order, which was granted. He was served at work and in my state, the defendant has the option to request an expedited hearing, which he did yesterday, so now I have to go to court on Tuesday and I am terrified that he will be allowed to come "home". His excuse for refusing to leave when I tried to break up with him is "but I'm ON THE LEASE." Well, that might be true for now, but only through May as I've already renewed for June 2014-15 under my own name only.

I thought I had some time since court wasn't scheduled until Feb 11, so this speeds things up a lot... . I finally got in touch w/my attorney today and he's reviewing what I submitted to determine the approach. I CANNOT have him back in home. That is my absolute WORST nightmare. I finally have peace and need to maintain my home as a peaceful sanctuary for myself and my children.

Any advice on what to expect at the hearing?  All I want is a PERMANENT NC order. I cannot have him constantly harassing me. NC is BLISSFUL!

Him being on the lease is almost certainly secondary to your protection order.  It comes down to whether you need protection or he needs restraint.  How much of what occurred is documented that he can't contest or deny?  Recordings?  Witnesses?  Documentation in emails, texts or notes from him revealing threatening behaviors?

If you don't have recordings or witnesses, don't give up.  I recall my lawyer telling me that my ex could get a restraining order against me just for a vague claim of being 'fearful', depending of course on how the judge felt about it.  No judge wants to wake up to a news headline that someone he denied a protection order to was killed or injured.  So if you are the least bit 'fearful' be sure to describe the changes to your life that has been due to that fear.

In court be consistent.  If he has a lawyer that lawyer will likely try to get you to contradict yourself, perhaps trying to maneuver you into stating three are some situations where you're no fearful, then the lawyer would turn to the judge and say, "This person is inconsistent, she's not really fearful so she doesn't need protection, we motion you dismiss the case."  So ponder the various questions you might be asked, make sure you say you're fearful, if not (1) by "his presence near you" then (2) by "what you fear he would do".  If he has a lawyer, you might be grilled, even though you're the one seeking protection.  Prepare for that pressure and feeling of intimidation just in case.  Remember, be consistent in your being fearful.

On a practical aspect, this also means that you would have to have some arrangement for child exchange and communication about the children that doesn't violate the protection order.  Make sure that whatever court aid you get with an order that you don't let him weaken the order by sidestepping the terms of the order.  That order will outline an important boundary for you, if in the future he repeatedly violates it and you don't report it, it could weaken the need for an order.

A permanent order may or may not be possible.  In some places there are limits such as 5 years.  It all depends what your state law and court can do.

Also, the judge may be interested to know how Determined you are to End the relationship.  They're used to seeing "repeat litigants" seeking court help who then are back together again before long and then right back in court again - Revolving Door Litigants.  So... . Is it Over or is it just Over-For-Now?  I suspect you'll get more willingness to help if you can state it really, really is Over.

Think about the big picture - not just having him out of the house but every other aspect that will need to be worked out sooner or later.

A huge one is custody.  What do you think will be best for the kids, short term and long term?  How often should they be with their dad, and how would that work?

Also, money.  Can you afford the house?  Will you ask for child support and/or alimony?

What I found in my own case is that as long as both parties are far apart on big issues, nothing gets resolved, but when one party (it was always me) puts forward a practical solution, the professionals involved (attorneys, judge, etc.) support it and work together to persuade the other party to buy in too.

If you offer a sensible solution to all the big issues - maybe just a temporary solution but one that will work for long enough so the case can be resolved permanently - you will be respected and what you propose will probably be the basis of the court's decision.

You can say, as FD suggests, "I do not feel safe with Mr. PLS in the home, and I do not want to be where he is, without a non-family adult third party present.  But I do support him having regular time with the kids.  For now, I propose that be each weekend from noon Saturday to noon Sunday, plus dinner one night during the week, from 6:00 to 8:00.  We can do the exchanges at the McDonalds by our house since there are always people there - I'll take the kids in a few minutes early and he can come in to get them.  That way he does not need to come to the house.  I need $X a month from him to pay the rent and utilities.  I will file for divorce by the end of February and we can work out all the issues more permanently through mediation or court if necessary."

Or something along those lines - a specific, practical plan how you think things can work - not to punish him or "win" at his expense, but to get you all through this next phase while a longer-term solution is worked out.

Thank you for the reply and I have absolutely looked at the big picture. I am the breadwinner and he is a financial drain on the family with expectations that I SHOULD support him since he has been the daytime caregiver. The kids and I will be far better off without him from a financial as well as emotional perspective. He works nights as a bartender and constantly complains about his job and I've offered to find daytime care so that he could find an alternative position. He has consistently refused, but instead remains angry and unhappy about his job. I have no idea what he does with his earnings, because none of his income is contributed to the family and he often asks me to pay his one and only obligation, which is his car payment. With him out of the picture, I am saving more than $500 / month in bills that will no longer be my responsibility, which will be helpful in going towards childcare.

In the time that he has been gone since last Friday (1/17), I have been able to secure a permanent daytime childcare solution that I can afford, so his services are no longer needed. His childcare was quite poor and I feel horrible for allowing him to care for the children as long as I have. On more than once occasion, I have come home unexpectedly to find him sound asleep to the point that I had to shout or gently shake him to wake him up while my 2 yr old met me at the door and his little brother is screaming in his crib. What if that was a stranger coming in the door? Once my landlord was met by my oldest son, who was 4 at the time, when he came by to check something and came in after ringing the doorbell and assuming that no one was home.

I am very torn about visitation, because after reading my incident log of the past six months, there are times where he has acted very inappropriately with the children and I am fearful of what he could say or do when I am not present. At the same time, my children love their father and it is important to me that they have a relationship with him. I feel that supervised visitation is the only solution and I am positive that he is going to fight me for custody. Not because he wants the responsibility of being their full time parent, but rather because he wants me to pay him child support.

I never delete texts, however there have been times where he has snatched my phone and purposely deleted the thread between him and I, but it's been awhile since that's happened and one of the reasons that I upgraded to an iPhone 5s for the fingerprint locking technology so that he couldn't watch me type the code and break into my phone. Within the last few messages before the NC, he said, "I pray something happens" and that's was on the heels of a death threat the night before. Ambiguous, but I know that he meant that he prays something happens to ME. I will also have plenty of evidence of him frequently asking me to pick the oldest child up from school despite this being during the time the children are under his care and I am working. If he cannot be responsible for them when I am in the picture, I am not sure how he would manage on his own. Not very well, I suspect.

Now to come up with a plan that will be agreeable to both parties... . great suggestion. Thank you!

There's a great site - posted by Bill Eddy, who wrote "Splitting", about divorcing someone with BPD or NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) - with a number of articles on negotiating in these situations:  www.highconflictinstitute.com/articles/mediation-a-negotiation-articles.

One of his big ideas is that, in high-conflict situations, we tend to want to tell our stories - we tend to feel hurt and victimized - whether you have a personality disorder or if you've been living with someone who does - whether the objective facts support your story or not - the more we keep telling our stories, the more we reinforce our feelings of victimhood and hurt, and the harder it becomes to resolve anything.

His solution - and he coaches mediators to do things this way, but many mediators may not be prepared to deal with such high-conflict situations - he says the solution is to skip the stories and go right to proposals.  This is contrary to the way many of us have been taught - we should listen carefully to the other party's point of view and show sympathy - and that's not entirely wrong, but his idea is that if you start with proposals, then you may be able to focus everybody on solutions and not get bogged down in endlessly re-telling stories about the past.

This may be especially hard in your situation, because your separation is recent, so it's understandable that you are both reeling, and probably needing to vent your feelings and experiences.  You can do that here, and with friends and family - and I hope the other party does that too.

If you come to a meeting with the other party, and both attorneys, prepared with a really well-thought-out proposal - and it's a good idea to go over it with your attorney, and send it to the other side before the meeting - then that proposal may be the focus of the meeting.  No doubt it will get marked up a lot - you can't be too defensive or be hurt by lots of changes - but at least the focus will be around practical matters and not things from the past that can't be fixed.

Maybe you can use that method to get temporary orders in place, which will establish that you have possession of the home and the kids are with you most of the time.

Then you can all turn your attention to longer-term solutions, which might include finding a smaller, cheaper place to live, and long-term custody-sharing in some form.

Great advice - thank you!

I already have the temporary order of protection in place. The upcoming hearing is to determine if the order should be made permanent.  THAT is my concern. I am working on putting together documentation to support my position in that he should not be allowed in my presence or in my home.  At this time, the order includes the children, so there are decisions that need to be made in regard to visitation.

My life is in order with the exception of a visitation plan and if there will be child support. I am fully capable of maintaining our current lifestyle level. No need to uproot the children or move from our home.

I think the key now is to envision what our future will look like and try to come up w/the best plan to ensure that the children have the opportunity to know their father in a safe and loving environment while being fair to everyone involved. I would assume that this should be the starting point of the negotiation process.  Although, my question is, is there a possibility that IF the temp order is converted to perm that it could include the denied visitation as it does now?

I will definitely check out the site that you've posted above.  Thanks again!

If your view is that the kids should not see their father at all, I think that will be seen as a very extreme view, unless you have very solid information that the kids are at risk if they are around their father.

If you can show that their father's behavior has harmed them, and that being around him puts them at risk, it might make sense to find out what options there are for supervised visitation.

Some cities have places for that purpose, with trained supervisors.  Usually the parent who is seeing the kids in a supervised environment pays the cost, or it could be shared.  The idea is to move from that toward unsupervised time with the kids, when the parent has shown he is ready for that.

If you have reason to believe he has some psychological problems, or drinking or drugs, or something else that can be treated, you can raise that subject too, but be careful not to seem like you are making unsupported accusations or being unfair to him.  You could say, "There is a behavior pattern I am concerned about - stbX has done such-and-such a number of times - so I think it would be best for him to be evaluated to see if there is some form of treatment that would help him change that behavior."

Or... . you could ask that both parents get psych evals.  That's what I did.  Takes away the "blaming" vibe and makes it more about getting all the relevant information out on the table.

Unless there is very extreme behavior, and you can show that the kids are at risk, it's probably best to propose some way that they can see their dad regularly, and some path toward a more normal schedule over time.  If you make a proposal that sounds moderate and fair, you will be seen as a problem-solver and not someone who is out to win at any cost.

YES!  I would be happy to participate in a psych eval.

I definitely want the children to have time with their dad and was attempting to make those plans/arrangements over the past few months, but he was uncooperative and not willing to participate in the process.

I just don't understand the legal process that we are now involved in, because the temp order denies visitation, so I have no idea what to expect at the hearing. If the temp is turned into perm, what happens w/the line item that states "visitation denied"? 

This is a big problem that most of us face - we don't understand - in detail! - how the legal process works where we live.

The big issues are similar throughout the US, and pretty similar to other countries like Canada and the UK, since our legal system came from the English one.  But there are a million details - even what terms are used - that are different from place to place.

You can ask your attorney to explain exactly what is happening right now, and how these hearings work.  Who will speak first, and who will speak later?  Will you have a chance to address the judge, and what will you probably be asked?  Will the judge look at your proposal in advance?  Who knows!

The answer is, your lawyer should know, and she can probably explain it to you if you tell her, "I really want to understand how this process works and how this hearing will be done, and what options I have, so you and I can be completely prepared."

Some attorneys would push back - ":)on't worry about it, I'll take care of it." - but you are the boss and you are right to find out enough to know that the approach you are taking is the best one.  Don't assume, "My attorney must know what she's doing!", because she can't possibly know what is best for you and your kids - that's for you to decide - so the best approach will come from the two of you working it out together - her knowledge of the process and your knowledge of your situation.

Putting forward a proposal may take some of the risk out of it.  Instead of just two outcomes - the temp order is made permanent or the order is ended - neither of which probably represent the most sensible outcome - you introduce a third alternative - your proposal - which has been thought through carefully so it's going to work out well.

If you and your attorney are both very familiar with the proposal - she should know it inside and out - you should be able to support it with your own perspective, and she should be able to support it with the kind of stuff the judge may want to hear - legal issues and how it can be administered practically.

There are typically three general behaviors that could be seen as serious parenting negatives - substantive abuse, neglect and risk of endangerment.  So try to describe his patterns of behaviors in that light.  Generally there are high hurdles to be met to set long term supervised visitation.  For example, falling asleep by itself may not be seen as a huge issue, it would have to be combined with other problems such as not responding to a crying child, not feeding or not changing diapers all day, etc.  It's possible the court may agree to supervised visitation or other restrictions in the short term while a psych eval (usually pretty basic) or a more thorough custody evaluation is made.

Even if you can't get the court to agree to supervised, you need to make the case that your parenting, supplemented with daycare services, is far better than his poor parenting.  Generally, when trying to get that initial parenting schedule, try your best to make it as favorable for you from the very start because it may be a difficult and expensive uphill struggle to improve it later on.

And the longer the children are in daycare, the more likely the court will be willing to see it as the 'new normal' not to be undone.

After giving the situation a lot of thought and consideration, I've come up with my best possible outcome.

#1 Most importantly, keep him out of my home; I cannot live with the madness and chaos - it's a hostile environment & not a healthy for any of us, especially the children

#2 Provide a temporary visitation plan which will be dependent on his living arrangements. If he's chosen to move back home with his parents, which I hope that he does as he needs their support, then I am fine with an every other weekend plan as his mom will be around to assist with the children and it's a few hours away, so anything less than an overnight is impractical; if he's staying in the area, I'm not certain what I would be comfortable with as it depends on if he's living with roommates or has been able to establish a home for himself

My requirements are that he doesn't get to come home (THIS is my biggest fear. No no no), the kids are primarily with me, AND he's no longer the daytime child care provider; other than that, I can be flexible within reason.

Thanks guys for your feedback.