BPDFamily.com

Fellow non BPDers, I am on a downer right now. I shouldn't be, because I have a lot going on professionally, enjoying teaching, tutoring, writing books, the possibility of a TV screenplay, and giving workshops, most of which I would give up to be with my BPDw. So, how may you ask can I be depressed? My BPDw feels really happy about being a student and being away for 3 days a week, working 2 to 3 days a week, and studying the rest of the time. Also, last night, after her work and us doing an errand, we were going to have dinner out. Well, the dinner date fell through, because she was too tired. Mind you, we haven't gone out on a date of any kind for at least several years. Our communication is usually restricted to morning and evening chit chat with no bonding together otherwise.

Today, she had to study for her classes. It turns out that one of my students needed some help, which I was glad to do. Then, I went to a movie which was okay. Yet, I feel emotionally empty.

My BPDw who is in her 50s said that she's going through a midlife change and doing her own thing. If it makes her happy to do something she wants to do, that's fine, but in typical fashion, she has gone to the extreme. I feel like I am a standby SO.

To repeat, I feel depressed while she is happy and out of touch with our relationship! Thanks for letting me vent!

Hi Samuel


It sounds like you value the idea of how you'd like your wife to be more than the things you have going on in your own life?  I don't know if that came out right.  Anyway, as hard as it is to comprehend where we're feeling down and out, happiness really is a personal choice. 

Acceptance of our reality is a giant leap into finding meaning and peace for ourselves.  Sometimes we have to make hard choices on where to go from here... .

While you're free to vent, it will only get you so far... .   What kind of actions could be taken to improve this situation?  Does anything come to mind?

I have made many, many compromises with her, and we have helped each other quite a bit in the past. She told me that she was my ideal mate, that her family loved me much more than my original family. Slowly but surely, she tried to compel me to think I was no good at anything. Then, she and I started counseling of all kinds both individually and as a couple. Now, she gets individual counseling from a woman who was abused, who hates men, but also has given her some ideas to follow her dreams exclusively, without any regard to our marriage. Is this so-called counselor hurting our marriage? You bet she is. That is why she started this career path. My BPDw has said that things probably will be better when she completes her degree in 4 years, and I suspect not. In the meantime, I am pursuing some things which have been fun. When I have gotten counseling myself, it has been to accept what is as much as possible. Yet, when I have accepted how she is, she invariably will be verbally abusive both at our house and even at the hospital when I did not know I was going to live or to die. She told me that I was going to cause a big hospital bill with my hospitalization. She had absolutely no regard to my health. That's when I cried and confessed to a nurse and a social worker who were supportive of me while I was there.

You ask if I would like her to be like I want her to be. Well, 123Phoebe, if she wants to continue being independent like this where we have virtually no time together, what's the point of being married? Am I just a live-in person taking care of a good portion of the bills around here? It seems so. If I wish to accept my reality with her, there is no marriage - just an occasional live-in.

Yes, happiness is a personal choice, and, yes, marriage is a personal choice and a commitment of having quality time with one another where there is love and respect.

As far as what kinds of actions to improve this situation, your guess is as good as mine! All I know is any happiness that I am experiencing is not because of her. Her happiness of being apart as she has been has been her personal choice without any compromising, without any discussion whatsoever. Ironically, 123Phoebe, she complained about her first husband doing exactly what she is doing. When I brought that up to her several years ago, she said she realized why he avoided her. HMMM! So, in a way, when she was so angry at him for doing what he had done, she is getting even by doing it to me.

Hi Samuel S.,

the problem with people suffering from BPD is that in some ways they tend to recover very quickly. Oh wait, maybe the problem is on our side 

Seriously, her having some space and with that stopping being in an enmeshed relationship is good for her regulation and frankly for all sides. At same time having a structure in the week that is on the one hand solid and on the other hand gives her change sounds ideal. Good for her that she is feeling better.  |iiii

Being jealous and feeling somewhat abandoned is the other side of the coin  . It seems unfair. To some degree very understandable but it is you who has to change now so can't blame her. Turning the focus away from her on yourself and the rest of the world is a big change and takes time. Maybe head over to the personal inventory board?

Keep in mind prolonged exposure to stress can cause changes to the way you think and feel and it would not be surprising if you are somewhat depressed - a lot of our members are. Drama now being past ruminations can set in - worth keeping an eye on it. If your problems persist seeking professional advise may be an effective way to end this blues.

AnOught, her having some space is good for all of us. We need some space so that we can feel personally fulfilled for whatever our hearts desire. The operative word is "some". In my BPDw's situation, it has not been "some". It has been 90% space by herself. She goes to school out of town 3 full days. She studies 1 or 2 days by herself in her room. She works for 2 days. While we say hi and bye and while we may chit chat just for a couple of minutes in the morning and in the evening, that is all there is to this relationship. Indeed, out of necessity, I have had to change, focusing on myself out of necessity. Yet, what you need to realize is that this kind of behavior on her part was even before her current trend. She was more outside the house than in. When I mentioned that her first husband did the same thing to her and how she was so terribly upset by this that it was one of the main reasons why they divorced, she now understands and has rationalized her own behavior. I am not jealous, but I definitely feel abandoned. If I were to do the same kinds of things she was doing and if she were here instead, she could very easily say that she would want to divorce me. Yet, anOught, we got married, and that means that we have quality time together at least once a week. That, anOught, has not happened for the last 5 years! Indeed, I have the right to be somewhat depressed about this situation. As I said, she is happy because she has all the space and escaping our relationship. She says that will change when she is out of school. I think not. It did not happen beforehand. It's not happening now. She's like an addict who wants more and more. While pursuing your goals is important, she has freely admitted that she has gone to the extreme.

There is also something else to consider. You talk half seriously and half in a joking matter how a BPD changes. Well, indeed, they do. In my particular case, she started to be very loving, very caring, and very sincere. She then molded herself into being very emotionally, mentally, and verbally abusive. Now, she neglects. So, she has gone from being loving to abuse to neglect. While it may seem unfair, it out right is unfair. I have had no other recourse but to change away from her, but it is not because of anything that I have done. I have only loved, supported, and cared for her. Also, she comes from a very abusive family situation when she was younger, and she is now playing that same part. Unfortunately, too many abused people make that choice to do this. I for one who has been abused refuse to stoop to that level. I believe that where there is life, there is hope, and I believe and practice that everyone deserves to be treated with love and with respect.

Samuel S:

I thought you were starting to come out of the fog in June 2009 when you wrote:

"I have come to the realization why I have been staying here.  First of all, I am hurting myself, because I hurt my two daughters and their families.  It is almost like I deserve the daily, harsh verbal abuse that my BPD wife gives out about me and so many others.  That is extremely hard to admit, even on this website, but that is the root of my emotional stagnation."

Do you ever get the feeling that you have since turned away from the pain of this thought and fallen back to a more comfortable position of indecision? I confess I don't see you embracing thoughts of change based on your responses to the suggestions of this board's advisors.

I think you're in your late sixties, Samuel. As you enjoy teaching others and acting as an example, wouldn't it be kind of exciting to blaze a trail and offer a new example to the discouraged and exhausted "seniors" who struggle with similar stagnation? Like the ones who think they have to continue in an abusive relationship because it has already lasted decades? I personally will find it quite depressing if I log on to bpdfamily.com in 2018 and read more threads like this one. I'll be thinking, ":)ude! You're now what, 73, and I remember when you were 63 and in this same place. Bummer!"

I think the choices you make now, this year, really are your choices. It's harsh, but I think it's so. And if you choose it, you will need to accept suggestions of ways to reduce resentment.

KateCat, indeed, those were my words then, and you are right about my age. Yet, while I understand and appreciate what you and others have suggested for me to do, it is so extremely difficult to get out of the FOG. Indeed, it is a fear, a fear about the BPDw who changes with the scenery and their mood based on their circumstances. Even saying that I would leave my BPDw to her, she would begin to incriminate me for abandoning her and her daughter emotionally and financially. Indeed, it is an obligation, an obligation to commit oneself to another. The guilt involved can be tremendous to overcome, the guilt that I feel and the anger I definitely would get from her and from others. Along with this FOG, what makes it so terribly confusing and distrusting of her is that she will be nice for a while and then become moody and angry and isolated the next.

Unless you and the others who have shared their ideas are in my place, it is easy for you to say what you do which I do appreciate, but it is definitely very hard and twisting by her. Just one slight example. Tonight, she told me she doesn't want any Valentine's Day presents, because we have our expenses. If I don't give her anything then, then, she will become moodier. If I do give her something which, by the way I already have bought, then, she may or may not get angry. For past Valentine's Days, I've been told the same thing when I already had bought her something. Then, on Valentine's Day, she would thank me. That is what I mean by her twisting things around.

May I ask why you want to stay with her? This seems like a very unfulfilling marriage.

SamuelS,

I fear greatly for your future if you can't begin to think differently about your situation. That scene you describe where your wife treated you poorly recently when you were in the hospital, and you were crying, and the nurses noticed . . . .

I fear something in you is driving you to choose this as your fate.

Thank you, Unicorn2014 and KateCat, for your responses. I truly do appreciate them a lot. I have read your responses several times, and I have been doing a lot of reflecting today about them and what's going inside my head about my situation. I have come to the conclusion that I am angry with my BPDw with her previous mistreatment, abuse, to me. Granted, now that she is studying, she is feeling better about herself and not being negative with me. So, it's a question about forgiving her for her past behavior. Also, speaking about forgiveness, I need to forgive myself for not being assertive. I need to learn to stop being angry with myself as well, which I feel is going to be harder to overcome. So, if you have suggestions as to what to read or ideas to consider, I am open to anything you have to suggest.

Nice work on recognizing some of your own emotions here!

I would recommend you read every single post by "waverider," who is an advisor on the Staying board. He's got a nice, jaunty style about his radical acceptance, if you're open to it, and you ain't seen nothin' that he ain't seen.

I would suggest seeking out some al-anon literature. Borderline is a lot like alcoholism.

Just wanted to say that I'm in a very similar situation. My wife has also made a lot of development the past years, lots of different projects of which some are successful. She was indeed very miserable before when she held a "normal" job, and a lot of that misery was taken out on me. She's a very different person now from who she was back then, in many ways. Difficult because it's like dealing with a moving target.

Forgiveness for me is hard also. In a way I feel like forgiving past abuse is like condoning it. And it makes me angry that my wife now puts the blame on me, without any insight in her part in all this. She wants me to get treated for depression. But she's (probably) the main cause of the depression. In a way it's a form of deadlock that I'm not sure how to break.

Samuel,

I also think that for now you might want to post and participate on the "Staying" board. I would suggest this (unless you disagree) because 1) your posts haven't yet shown signs that you're presently considering leaving, and 2) the advisors on the "Undecided" board can't really help you if you're not in a decision-making mode of thinking.

On "Staying," members share powerful ways to free their own minds from situations that aren't readily susceptible to obvious resolution. They have some ingenious ideas.

Keep looking in that mirror . . .  |iiii Over on "Staying," they will force you to, heh heh.

Samuel,

while your wife is doing better the way you describe it there seems extreme behavior but of different type. It almost sounds as if she is keeping herself busy deliberately to stop herself having to reflect too much. There is no question that this is highly irritating, invalidating, triggering abandonment and is unfair to you  .


an important point. One can either work in the staying direction or towards leaving. If you do neither you are stuck - you learn more but are not putting enough to practice and that tends to breed frustration. (<-- this advise applies to most posters who are longer than 4-8 weeks on undecided)

Does being mainly on staying mean you will succeed staying - no. But with members who gave it a real shot on staying the break-ups tended to be less dramatic. It seems to me the risk associated with working on improving a relationship is limited while there is a clear upside. It is totally ok to post once in a while on undecided then if you are wondering whether it would not be better to give up and leave or even move over to leaving. In any case having a direction and consistent support in that direction helps making changes in one direction that add up.

The personal inventory board may also be a place to post some times. It is a quieter place though and staying tends to be a lot more supportive and generally not so tough.

You asked for material:

For depression someone suggested to me: Feeling Good - David D. Burns, M.D (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79768.0) . I found the twisted thinking bits quite good but then I also had a lot of the basic concepts already on the board so not that much was new for me. Check it out.

For dealing with unprocessed past pain from extreme events: The Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Sourcebook - Glenn R. Schiraldi, Ph.D.] (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=213669.0) . I found it very helpful explaining the mechanisms at work that link past memories to triggers and dysfunctional coping. A fair part of the book is dealing with de-stressing to get to a point where therapy can work on the painful memories. The author was working a lot with veterans but somehow I could relate to this quite well

When asking the question "how did I end up here?" read what has been posted on personal inventory board (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=27.0)(visible only to posters with 50+ posts). Maybe read some on the [L5] Coping and Healing in a Family with a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=7.0) as parents play a big role in how we deal with conflicts and often also how we select our mates.

Or browse the other book reviews here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=33.0).