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I hope you guys can forgive my wishy-washiness and honestly I feel like I am going crazy right along with him. To recap, I caught him in a lie last Friday night about where he was. He was not at the bar he said he was at, at that given time, although he did eventually go there. I did hear from him the whole night via text but was still weird that he did not tell me he got to the bar, M's, until way later after he really got there. I suspect he has something going on with the bartender at M's (emotional or other) and that is why I figured he didn't tell me. She was working that night. To his credit, he did text me the whole night, when he got home, etc... . but he DID lie several times about his whereabouts.

The following day, I went to his house to confront (very maturely I did, I was nervous, had a hard time talking, I never raised my voice or anything, i was really a wreck) to ask what was going on, etc... and also express some other concerns I had with the relationship (instability, he keeps breaking up, etc... ) It did not go well, not at all. He got VERY defensive, turned it all on me (as I was warned), threw it all in my face, ranted, etc... and so I left. I then got a string of pretty nasty texts.  Then that next day, Sunday, he comes here and acts like all is fine, takes me to look at homes to move into, cars to trade for him, and we game plan for our future. Silly me thinks he is over it and I just "forget" he lied   and am happy that he seems to have finally seen the light. All of the good continues until Tuesday morning. He proceeds to message me that I "messed him up", no one has ever accused him that way, I made him feel terrible, etc... that he gets why I had concerns about our stability, but that he doesnt understand why I questioned him about where he was/when, when he was texting me the whole night.  Then he says he is not right for me, he cannot commit and give me what I need and deserve because he is not normal and that he feels he is abandoning his small kids 500 miles away, by moving on with me, so he breaks up.

On Wednesday he sends me this message saying we can still talk, be friends, communicate, etc... and not much else is said. Then yesterday he messages me "Good morning luv, I miss you"... . then reaches out several times during the day and I end up caught in a conversation with him. He calls me to ask if I can make something for his work (business I own we make signs, etc... ) then gets off. Then he messages asking to see me this weekend-he wants to come here to see me, then us to go to the dress up event we had planned on Saturday. I guess in my broken heartedness, I got excited and accepted... . then he calls me again (this is odd bc he does NOT call me hardly ever) Well on the phone we have general chit chat, then he brings up last Saturday night again and this time he rages at me. First time he has ever yelled at me like that. He says he wants to know "WHO or WHAT motivated me to confront him on Saturday" He said "That is not like you, I know you very well and someone or something caused you to do that and I want to know what it was" "I no longer trust you until you tell me why you did that" ":)ont give me any BS answers... I want to know why" "We are no longer progressing until you tell me the truth as to why you did that"

I don't know what to tell him? I can't tell him I was suspicious bc I have no proof of anything, just suspicion based on the weird stuff he was doing on FB for the past 2 mos (which ironically has stopped). I told him that it made me feel weird that he said he was in one place but was at another and he said he was drunk and got the times wrong and wants me to tell him why I did that.

I am confused. I thought I was done, now I want to fix it?  What do I say? How did I get back into this place again? This is the craziest situation ever. I hate this and how it feels. I don't know what I can say to him that will quell his questions without it being turned on me anyway. I don't want to say I had a suspicion about "her"... . but what else do I say or do?  I don't know what I can say that he will accept-I dont know what he wants me to say. Please help and I am sorry I am non stop about this. I want to fix it all. I feel like I should have never went down there and that I ruined everything.

hey Sadinc, you dont have to answers those qeustions. There will not be an.answer that will satisfy him, that you can provide. It feels, from what you wrote, that he is cornering you and building up the pressure. There is a chance that the answers you will give him, will backfire on you.

It  feels as if gou feel guilty for not answering his intrusive questions, you dont have to answer, really!

You are on the leaving board; are you leaving, staying or undecided?

I was pretty sure I was leaving... . now I am confused... I dont know  :'(

I know this is going no where. I dont know where to post or where I belong bc I am so torn.

Wow!  If that wasn't the one of the best performances of push, pull, deny, blame, accuse, turn it around to you, don't you ever question me, you need to walk on eggshells around me, I am always right, I tell you what to think and feel, few days, I don't know what is.

Is this what you want for the rest of your life?

I've gone through all of this.  He is now putting you in the spot of justifying yourself, which you can never do, because no answers you give will be ok.  When I went through this, I realized that I needed, wanted validation.  You do know that you don't have to justify anything, and that if you do not feel good in a relationship that you can leave it at anytime.  He does not have to agree with you, you don't need his permission.

I'm a newbie here, so take what you can and leave the rest.

My best to you.

Sad... . Change your name to happy. Make the split. You know you want to. The r/s is dead. The body hasn't hit the floor yet.

I have to agree with what jynx said.  The pwBPD has turning things around on us down to an art form where we REALLY start to believe it.  I am really starting to feel for people with BPD as it has to be a horrible way to live.

What worked for me is to do something radically different; I went on a road trip with some friends and got 800 miles from home.  It's difficult to think straight, to see the forest for the trees, when you're stuck in it.  If you go somewhere, do something different, and definitely don't talk to him, leave the smartphone at home even, for at least a few days, your focus will change and you may be able to be more objective about your decision making.  We look forward to updates!

^^^ They turn it around so we feel bad for them, too.

They know what they're doing, that they lie, cheat, and do whatever it takes to get their way.

Sadinnc98, fix yourself first. That will help you make many good decisions.

Hey Sad, so sorry for your anxiety and confusion.  

I think Jynx pretty well summed up what has happened here.  In reading your posts, I think you would agree, as you have been saying so along the way.  As to "why" you feel confused right now, I would offer my experience and observation of people on this board.  Your SO is very conflicted, confusing, contradictory in his behavior and thoughts.  No need to comment on BPD or anything, just his pattern of behavior and conversation is intensely confused.  When I am vulnerable to my ex, and when I read about others here in the same state, I engage their logic and try to move with them emotionally.  And, as a consequence, I get dizzy from the spinning confusion.  It is like talking to someone on one of those little playground merry-go-rounds, realizing you can't have a conversation while they are spinning and you are not, so you jump on the merry-go-round yourself and start talking.  When you get off you are so dizzy you cannot stand up... . and then you ask, "What happened?"

Lots of good comments on this post.  May I suggest that you pause, look inside and determine what you need in the very next moment.  :)o you need silence?  Exercise?  Whatever it is, move in that direction.  Look within, seek calmness and insight.  You did not ruin anything.  You do not need to fix anything.  You do need to do what gets you to a place where you are less confused, a bit more at peace and have a sense of control over your own life... . and all of this is achievable in short order.

Thank you guys-you all help me so much. I went out and took a drive to clear my head... . stepped back and looked in. This is not a r/s... not an adult mature relationship. This is a man who tells me often that he is "punishing me"... . for trivial things and he does it for months on end... taunts and torments... .   I am thinking about taking a little getaway this weekend just to think. 

Very nice metaphor winston, totally applicable.

There you go!   |iiii

People with BPD argue to engage you in their chaos, and as an outlet for their internal conflict.  Not to resolve an issue.

Don't JADE.  Justify, argue, defend or,explain.

This sounds like an attempt on his part to offload his conflicted feelings.  

Not about you.

Detaching is a process - many people get on the merry-go-round more times just to make sure they really are done.  IF you are going to be in communication with him at all, I strongly suggest reading lessons (not posting there, but the lessons) in staying so you can truly understand what you are dealing with and do your part to make the situation better.

If you are done - really done; look within (going away is great) to get a very honest inventory of your emotional space (look to the right on the 5 stages of detachment).  It helped me  a lot when I accepted that I was way too vulnerable for contact with my ex for a while - I was too raw and I couldn't stay balanced so I had to take care of ME.

Hang in there, it really is a process.

Peace,

SB

Sad, I don't like to call you sad,

Trust is a must. Without trust there is only emptiness. I really feel for you. You want to avoid the pain but it just keeps coming. It hurts, I know this. I've experienced it. I often wished that I could just flip the switch like pwBPD are capable of. I know I'm not built like that. I know I have feelings and I'm capable of loving and caring about others. I know that I can be vulnerable. I know that I can hurt and suffer. The only way for me to heal is to detach completely. Enjoy your getaway.

Nice use of the merry go round example.  In all my other relationships I have had I simply waited for them to get off the merry go round.  Usually it was a short ride, and we could then talk things through.  With my pwBPD she never got off the merry go round so i had to get on if we were to "talk" (if that is what you want to call it).

He just sent a Facebook message telling me he is going to miss all of our favorite places in my town. UGH.  :'(  What was the purpose of that? Im going to try to go out tonight on my own.

The purpose of that was to make sure you stay available to him.  Under his control... .

Go away - think about what you want.  I cannot tell you how many times I have been DONE but then wound up back with my ex - it's wildly difficult to break the bonds when I work with the guy... .    but time to yourself can only do you good... .    Here's hoping it helps!

Just as an update, he messaged me to check on me about 1 AM... . and I kept it very simple, one word answers... . but then he threw in the comments of me "confronting him like a cheater"... which I assume was to bait me for a fight... . I just ignored it. I think NC is going to have to be the way to go bc it messed me up and I was up all night... again. :'(  I cant believe it, ut I actually feel sad that he seems done for good this time.

I think you did real good. 

I saw where you said that he "punishes" you.  My ex actually said that to me the first time he ran away from home.  It was over something really stupid that he twisted around to blame me for.  I was going to get a haircut this day, and my ex just walked in with the mail.  He opened up his bank statement and saw that the check he deposited from our son had bounced, he went into a rage, I asked him to calm down, that there could be a reason for this, that I had to go out then, but when I came back we could discuss this.  It was Labor Day weekend.  He left while I was out on Friday, came back Tuesday night, and told me he had to punish me because I was irrational when I was raging about our son being irresponsible. 

I no I didn't have to add in that little tidbit above, I just want you to know that I know how irrational they can sound and how they twist things around. 

So, you did good.  Try to do something for yourself today, and shut off your phone.

Yes, he tells me verbatim that he punishes me for things... little insignficant things that he will hang on to for months on end... .   That type of activity you described is exactly something my ex would do too... . you are calm/rational/sensible and he is not. They can't be it seems.

Me too... . it's gone on for years - the punishments.  He doesn't forget any instance of his alleged mistreatment.

Mine was busted lying to me for the Nth time last week about someone new he is dating - apparently exclusively.  Yet he lied to me for the month prior trying to get back together with me.  And when I found out and called him out?  Yep, he raged and blamed me and blocked me on his phone.  He sent me abusive accusatory instant messages on work property (which our HR has access to) accusing me of totally made up lies to make me appear like I am a horrible person (actually accused me of threatening a small child!  complete absurdity.)  My shocked responses only made me appear equally crazy because I was so stunned and he got the outraged response he was looking for.  Ugh.

Not responding is the best policy... .  

I went through 27 yrs of this stuff, it wasn't that bad in the beginning, probably because when we got married we lived with my mom because my dad just died and she couldn't afford the bills.  His "mask" came off when we bought our house.  There were flags there the whole time, but they weren't that frequent back then.  From the day we moved into our own house all h3ll broke loose.

I wanted to tell you that since I also noticed you are looking at houses together.  These r/s aren't r/s, they are a one way ticket to h3ll.  I wouldn't wish what I went through on anyone, even my worst enemy.  It just sucks the life out of you, you keep doing and doing and doing for them to try to get them not to explode, but they explode anyway.  They are emotional vampires.  By the time they are done with you, you have nothing left to give them anymore, and you have less then nothing to give yourself.  They just sucked you dry.  

It's hard not to pick up the phone, or to read an email, or a text.  You are always hoping that they came to their senses, and that they love you.  If you get one of those, it is because he is trying to suck you back into h3ll.

One thing that I did whenever I got an urge to call him was to play old vm's from him, or read old text.  They were all the same.  Angry and blaming, then with shaking hands, I would put the phone down and walk away.

 

The most painful punishment for a borderline is to be abandoned.  Just sayin'... .

He messaged me this morning telling me that he was going to miss our fave breakfast place... I did not respond so then he asks if I am ignoring him. I guess that makes sense. I just responded back that I was hurting and then of course he didnt reply bc I guess he got what he needed to hear? That i am sad over him? 

The core of the disorder is a fear of abandonment, and a borderline attaches to people to feel whole.  If you're 'hurting' he still has emotional hooks in you, the attachment is still there, the abandonment fears are soothed for the moment, so he's good.

It will never be about you, you're an attachment object.  Did you say you were going somewhere different this weekend?

Don't even try to think about what he might be thinking.  It can make you "nuts".

In my situation I found out that yesterday was yesterday, today is today.  He couldn't understand why I might be upset or sad about yesterday.  He took it as rejection, and I was painted as a b!tch.  He was only trying to be nice to me, and look at what he gets for trying to be nice.  Then, and how dare you accuse him, he is the one that is hurting, you should be kissing his @ss.  

He actually told a therapist that if I say that I'm upset, that just makes him mad.

So there's a lot of things that he can be thinking, and like I said, it will make you "nuts" trying to figure it out.

Think about yourself today, (if you can remember how to do that)  lol  :)o something nice for you today.  Get him and his voice out of your head today.   One day at a time.  

Instead of playing these head games with him, perhaps think why you might want to spend your life playing head games that you will never win.

((hugs))

Yes, I am planning to go out of town tonight-hotel with a spa, etc... . I am forcing myself-Ive had a really tough day though. This stuff sucks the life out of you!

Thank you--this sounds like excellent advice. I am sorry you had to deal with all of that.

Yes it does, and I found the only way to deal with it at this point is to break free.  Enjoy your freedom, and maybe leave your phone at home?

If I didn't have kids, I would do that!

Tell them where you're going and give them the phone number?

I am alerted to something simple that is profound, it caused(s) me great pain and its reversal is a source of great relief.  It is embodied in this quote from Jynx, ":)on't even try to think about what he might be thinking.  It can make you "nuts"."

The subtle shift in focus from self to the other, when the other is so troubled, is devastating.  And it keeps pulling us into pain and frustration.  The shift from other to self starts to bring wholeness.  So simple, so profound.  I have been and still am oriented to trying to understand my ex, to make sense of the non-sensical. 

Sad, another thing comes to mind that helped me.  I came to view some of these interactions as injuries.  The conflicts were so painful and destructive that it impaired my ability to function.  I was injured.  I was slow to recognize it.  I would treat myself better if I had sprained my ankle.  If you are injured, you stop trying to use the joint, muscle, whatever and as a first priority you give it time and nurture to heal.  You would not even try to rehabilitate the injury until you rested it.  It seems to me that you need to rest and recover before you try to act in any way toward this relationship.

Please keep us informed.  So many people are rooting for you.

Thank you guys for all of the support, I don't know what i would do.    I try to help where I can too and promise to pay it forward when I am in a better place. I am struggling so bad today.  I decided this week that I am going to look for a new job and move about an hour from here-I have been wanting to do it for a long time-get a fresh start. My nickname in college was Sunshine... and I need to get that girl back again... .

Yes!   |iiii

He just texted: "By the way: I was able to sell our tickets for the art benefit tonight. Im not going"

I waited an hour and just wrote back: Ok

He did that to be mean in my opinion. He knew I was very excited to go-it was going to be a fun, dress up type event.  I knew he just wanted to get under my skin as there was no reason for him to have messaged me that.

Oh no:

"I know its tough. Hard to let go. We had a love and passion that most don't ever have"



HELP ME! WHat do I say to this?

Say nothing until tomorrow - you are spinning Sad - let yourself breathe for 24 hours so you can think clearly... .

That is what I was thinking too-because my first impulse was to react off of emotion and I know that is not right.

Say Nothing.  It isn't a question about business. It's a fight picking statement to alleviate guilty feelings about behavior or conduct.

Sad- I'm with others on trying to trying to figure out what he's thinking.  My guess he's not he's reacting impulsively looking for something to fix the bad feelings he's having.

This man is highly emotionally manipulative and abusive.   I'd like to urge you to continue to look at what you want and need.   Your values for a relationship and to compare it to what he's offering.

Do they align?  

Sometimes listing this out in print helps to show us where things aren't right and gives us the permission to let go.

Sad, I am not sure you can emotionally here what GM is telling you in this - but he is triggered and he is putting his hurt on you - this is classic BPD behavior and the ONLY way you can stay sane is to back away and regroup.  You have the power over your own life - I know it is hard, but back away for a bit so you can stop the insanity.

What do you mean he is triggered? Like because I am not responding the way he wants he feels abandoned and wants me to beg him back or something?  I have been very short with him, have not initiated messages with him, etc... . I have tried hard to detach.  You are right-I am not totally clear on what GM was saying although I have reread it several times... . but maybe I am getting it now? I have noticed he keeps logging in and out of Facebook to see if I have responded to him.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I don't think there is a gentle way of saying that you're playing right into his hands. You're letting the dysregulated one--dysregulate you. He's got you jumping emotionally left and right, like a wound up jack-in-the box. You're taking every little thing he's saying seriously, like it's gospel. Half of what they say doesn't matter, and the half that does will change anyway. Only their actions matter.

You cannot let the pwBPD get the upper hand this way, because they will run with it forever unless some sane authority is established--and that means consequences. If you really want to be with this guy, you have to get a handle on this sooner than later. This is bullying, manipulation and just being an ass. It's about respect for you, and him not playing these silly mean BPD games.

The methods of communication he's throwing at you, are totally within his bag o tricks and no relationship with a pwBPD can work if they don't respect you enough to stop that. Sorry, but you have to stand up to him, and change this dynamic. It can be done calmly, without anger (on your part), without shaming him--but you have to speak your core truths to him. The whole eggshell game, is only about surviving with a pwBPD. If you want to try thriving with him you have to be willing to lose the relationship. I wish there was another way but there isn't. He has to be called out by you when he is playing these games. Children are taught discipline, and it's the same here. It's not about shaming, but establishing functional order. Just my opinion, hope things get better for you.       

I have an idea.  Log off of facebook, get out of your email, shut off your phone.  Stay here and tell us about "you".

You mentioned before that you were thinking of moving, guess also a new job.  Tell us about that, get your mind off of him.   

It means he is feeling abandoned already, he's re-experiencing the trauma that created the disorder to begin with, he's panicking and driven by emotion, and needs a scapegoat, you.  There is no making rational sense of what's going on with him.

You are caught up in it and the only way to stop it is stop communicating with him.  I thought you were going somewhere?  I know you need that phone because you have kids, but you need to find a way to turn it off, block his texts, whatever, or this will continue.  Total disconnect is your only option right now.

I can't say for sure, because no one can, but my guess is this is what I call the "bait" and "trap".  He tried to get a reaction from you since the morning, you really didn't give him one, so now he tries this one, expecting you to call him and scream at him.  If you do this, you know it will be all your fault, because he couldn't get in touch with you all day long, (poor him), and he had to sell the tickets.

So he baits you for a response, if you give him one, he got you in the "trap".  You can't do anything about this to make anything any better because the tickets are gone, even if they are not gone, and he really didn't sell them, then out of guilt you would probably go.

All around ---- you lose

Sad - I am saying this not to be unkind, but to show you how spinning you are - how is it any different that you are checking him as he is checking you.

Hon, he is triggered (because he is, nobody here knows why) and you are just as triggered and obsessing  yourself - you cannot change him, but you can work on you.

Can you stop with Facebook - go for a run - I thought you were going to a spa or something like that?

You need to rebalance yourself so you can make decisions not based on your triggered emotional state.

I apologize for being unclear.   I wasnt trying to be cryptic.   Seeking balance and others pointed to what I was meaning.

Any kind of uncontrollable emotional upset that sparks unreasonable and inappropriate responses.

It could be angry trigger, shame trigger,  or rejection trigger.   We can't really know what's going on in his head.

Just looking at how this all played out we do know this:

-he lied

-he got confronted on, if nothing else , an inappropriate emotional entanglement with someone else

-he did not take responsibility

-he applied the guilt, shame and bullying on you instead putting you on your back for to justify your action instead (this is called projection - Sometimes is transference)

-he then applied more pressure on you to take responsibility for his poor behavior and is effectively punishing you for not trusting his untrustworthy behavior.


Sometimes we need other people to confirm things.   I'm going to confirm that he's being abusive.   At this point even if you were on the staying board, the seasoned stayers will tell you you don't stick around for abuse.   You give yourself a time out and when thins calm down then you can try to iron things out.   You don't validate abuse... . It's not the time to have any type of discussion because abusive people don't think.   They react.   That's why they get into trouble and do stupid stuff.

Here's the deal... . I'm with Conundrum on how he's got you emotionally jumping around responding to his screw up.   My guess is he's been pulling this for a long time and you've apologized probably for a lot things you've didn't need too.  He's used to you making this better and soothing his crappy feelings, whether it's guilt shame whatever.   It really doesn't matter. What matters is what his behavior tells you about who he is.

His desperate emails are an extinction burst.   They are meant to have you cave in and do what he's used to you doing.   Soothing him and allowing him to feel okay about his conduct.   If you've changed how you react recently this is a shock to him and he's going to pump up the volume. This is the loss of control.  

It sounds like you doubt yourself.  Most people would develop this sense of self doubt when faced with a person like this who's consistently blame shifts, accuses and demeans them.    As nd then end up apologizing to him for his behavior.  This is classic abused partner reactions to quell the conflict.  It's a really awful place to be.  It's very hard to get out of this dynamic workout help.   Do you have a therapist?

Sad do you want to try and have a relationship with this man?   If you do the leaving board isn't the best place to work the program.   It's works better on the undecided or staying board and giving some of the tools a fair shot.

If you want to detach.   And from what I've read about him,  he's been cycling around this abusive behavior quite a lot.   I'd suggest in your case some time no contact while your emotions get settled because seriously he's very good at the old bait and switch. ... and you sound very vulnerable.  He's a mentally ill guy in the drivers seat.

Is telling him you don't feel well and need some time alone a possibility for you?

Thank you for everyone's responses and GM thanks for clarifying... . and I will be honest with what happened last night, and its not good and not pretty. I am going to try a counselor this week because I think I am so wrapped into this I don't know how to get myself out of it... I see, hear and listen but can't take action (which I really need to) and I think I need some help  I recognize that this situation is bad, really bad. I was hurting last night and made a poor decision.

I got weak last night and agreed to meet him for a drink as his texts were making me really sad and I felt like I was hurting him by being cold.

Last night went down in flames BAD.  Everything was ok and we were having a good time. it was a little awkward but in general fun. He kept bringing up lil comments about the confrontation last Sat PM and I ignored them and it was fine.

We went to a second bar after I met him at the first and we had a couple of drinks (he was planning to stay, he even brought stuff, I realized later) Well at that bar the crowd was weird and he told me to stay tight to him and not to really dance or anything. The bar wasn't crowded really, good band and we live in a small town, nothing scary. I didn't even realize it I guess but I danced a little bit (right by him)... . the music was going and I don't even think I realized... but anyway apparently these guys were behind me. I never saw them. Next thing I know he is LIVID and says "OK WE ARE GOING"... I was like "what?" I kept asking him what was going on and why we were leaving. He was like "STOP ARGUING WITH ME!" by the time we get in the car he is screaming at me in a full on rage-I have never experienced that from him in person. He screamed at me at the top of his lungs from that bar till we got to my car. He said "THE ONE TIME IN TWO YEARS I ASK YOU NOT TO DO SOMETHING YOU EFFING DO IT. I TOLD YOU NOT TO EFFING DANCE AND YOU EFFING DID IT ANYWAY." He said "You didn't even realize it but you backed into one of them and the guy said he was going to "HIT THAT" and the other one said, "That is her dude" and they said "Who gives a eff" and he said there was about to be a scene and that they were laughing when we left. I only had a few drinks and was not drunk or anything. I did not see or witness any of this! I don't know what happened!  He screamed that same stuff at me at least 10 times.

How did I not know any of this went on? I was mere inches from him with my hand on his leg.  He said... "that part I can get over, that you danced, but what I cannot is you effing arguing with me!  I wasn't arguing with him. I had no idea what happened, why we were leaving and what was going on so I was asking him. That is all.

I was truly so confused! I didn't see any of that, I had no idea what he was talking about. I wasn't arguing, I was asking. He was in a RAGE. He told me that I am turning into ex-wife, he doesn't know who I am anymore-two weekends in a row I act out of character. He says you didnt listen to me, I am so sick of this. We pull up to my car, I ask him to come to my house, lets sleep on it and talk in the morning and he said "NO EFFING WAY" and asks me to get out of his car and we go back and forth a little more, he is continuing to scream at me.  So I get out and get in my car. I am crying by this point. I get in my car and sit there just processing what happened and then hear a car honking-its him. He wanted me to leave so he could follow me home to make sure I got home ok, which he did, then left. I tried to call him to talk and he would not answer and I have not heard from him. I am sick to my stomach over this whole thing. I really didn't mean to do anything wrong-I don't even think I realized what I was doing. I wasn't doing some kind of provocative dance, I just moved along to the music-not even really realizing it? I was right by him... .

I can tell something is "off" with him... he didn't seem right the whole night-couldn't put my finger on it.

This message makes it sound far better than it was-it was a  nightmare. I have never experienced a rage like that, not ever. I am shaken up. He was so angry, so mean, so loud-full of rage... . I think he is a really scary guy  

Hi,

You did nothing wrong last night, and you have nothing to feel guilty about.  You were just standing, moving to music, everyone does this.  YOU. DID. NOTHING. WRONG.

I only joined this board a few days ago.  I am already divorced 4 years.  I think I needed that long away from my marriage to clear the F.O.G. out of my head, so that I could look at things clearly, and without emotion. 

I can understand things a lot better now, but even if I knew then what I know now, I still could have not dealt with the behavior.  I would never have been able to be me, to act spontaneously.  I would always be thinking ahead to the next 5 minutes, next 10 minutes, what can I do to prevent another rage?

What you wrote above may seem to you like you minimized things, and I don't know, maybe you did, or maybe I can read in between the line, with my own experience.  Sometimes I think that there are no words to describe the terror of it. 

I know it is hard to get out of these relationships, look at me, took me 27 yrs.  What happens is you begin to develop Stockholm Syndrome, PTSD, anxiety, and panic attacks.  You only existence in life soon becomes planning on how you should act just to survive a day with him.  You try to go to sleep at night and your can't, your mind is just constantly running around trying to think of other ways to say things to him, so that he could understand that you are hurting, but without hurting him as you tell him.  Please understand that there is no way to do this.

If you breakup with him now, it will be hard for awhile, but it does hurt less and less each day.  You know, you are entitled to happiness in your life.  You can move on from here and find your calmness and happiness.  You won't find it while you stay. 

Read back over your threads here, remember each situation, how often they occur.  Is this what you want the rest of your life to be?  Then think that for every tactic of his that you are able to deal with, and not react to, he will find new, more torturous ones to replace them.  He is not going to get any better. but you can!   

I do know and understand what you are going through and how tough this is on you. 

We go round and round in circles trying to find the right way to say that we hurt, but you know what, they aren't listening. 

Do not try to contact him.  Last night wasn't your fault, and it was already twisted around to being your fault.  You'll only hear more of the same.

Sad,

I have also had the experience of having my EX tell me that things happened or were said in a conversation or a situation that I question.   They were not what I experienced or remembered occurring.   BPD is a serious disorder and a component of it is distorted thinking.   Its was very disorienting for me and made me question my own reality. I know how hard that is to process.

You sound like you are still badly shaken.  As you should be.  That was a lot to go through.  It also sounds like maybe his behavior is escalating.

Just for an alternate opinion,  I want to say that if I was out in a bar and some one or something threatened the person I was with, my reaction would be terror that some one I cared for might be hurt, and protection to make sure the person I cared about was okay, both physically and emotionally.  That's not what happened in your case.  You were (perhaps) threatened, and then blamed for it.  Can you see how that isn't okay?

Let me ask, what can you do to take care of yourself today?  I am a little concerned by the apparent escalation.   My one and only suggestion is do something to turn down the volume on the conflict.  Lie if you have to.  Say,  "I think I have picked up a bug, I am going to spend the day in bed with a cup of tea."  Whatever works for you.  Give yourself the day off.

You don't have to make decisions that effect all of your life today while dealing with the fallout from the night before.   

Find a way to get through today without drama.   Give yourself that gift.

my two cents

babyducks

Hi Sad

I've been in that exact situation, genders reversed; it is hell and I'm sorry it happened.

But this could be the good news; have you had enough yet?  Know that it will only get worse, not better.  Like ducks said, you don't want to act while you're shaken up, but you can make a real decision that you can act on later, using the emotion as fuel. For now, avoid him, don't fuel the fire, process, rest, decide.

I am definitely going to step back today. I am going to shop in another town and get some lunch.

He texted me this morning and said he did not want to see me and to NOT stop by his house today. I guess I am still being punished?

We are technically broken up by the way... I don't know what all of that was last night or why he even came here...

I'm with ya on that.

Sad, what I notice from your reporting of these recent events, and what I wonder if you notice, is: he is the decider.  You are in the position of constantly wanting to be together, & you are waiting to see if he lets that happen.  He's a raging jerk and you invite him inside, then are hurt that he goes home instead.

Do you see that another role is possible for you, where he behaves poorly, YOU decide "that's not what I want to be around," you tell him you don't want to be around that, and YOU decide the evening has ended without you going to bed together?

When you list what he did that was hurtful last night, the list goes (i) he made you leave the bar, (ii) he raged at you and was insulting and hurtful, (iii) he went home, and (iv) he informs you he still does not wish to be in your company.

With boundaries, it's likely you wouldn't have gotten past (i) or maybe (ii).

I get why you still wanted him to come in, sleep on it, let it be better in the morning, because I spent years in that same mode (not with the man about whom I came to these boards BTW).  You want it to turn out differently, to all be better.  You want it to be fixed.

Unfortunately, overlooking this sort of bad behavior and inviting him in doesn't fix it.  It invites him to do it again, and shows that he can cow you back into behaving in what he's told you is the expected fashion -- his extinction burst worked, you've been taught your lesson about not resisting his behavior, and he'll remember to use that approach next time, too.

I'm not saying this to be critical, but to suggest a sort of thought experiment, where you go back over the events of last night & see where you could be the decider, and play that out in your mind, and see if would have led you to feel differently about the situation today. 

Sad... .     I have to add my two cents here quickly - because I too have lived thru the exact same type of rage circumstances - many times in the past year... .   in fact, just days ago... . because a man got on an elevator with me and somehow my ex thru mental telepathy "saw" that I was flirting with the man on the elevator... .

of course in reality, I did not flirt with, speak to or even look at that man... .   it really doesn't matter. 

I suspected he would come to work with a reason to rage... .   he created one the second he saw me... .   and yes, it is beyond scary.  Scary to the point that I've seen him morph into a complete stranger - one that says things so off the wall it's no longer a questioin at all who has a problem. 

And trust me... . It DOES get worse... .   while I was already in therapy, I did go to a domestic violence counselor as well because the intensity really increased at the beginning of the summer.

I know this is so much easier said that done... . but stay broken up... . stay in low or no contact... .   let yourself breathe and become clear enough to realize that this isn't what you want out of life... .

I will update you guys in a bit... . just wanted to check in. This week has been very bad as far as the escalation of the emotional/verbal abuse and cycle of abuse. I went to my first counseling session yesterday and it was very eye opening... . She had a lot of good and some things to say that were bothersome... . I am not sure where to go from here. All I know is this is situation is a mess... . a bad mess.

Maybe there's a silver lining; escalation may mean things are coming to a head so real change can happen?  Hang in there sad, take care of you, and let us know what we can say to help.

Glad to hear you are okay in this hard spot.

What did she say?