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Made another visit to DD17 this weekend.  The progress is continuing and they believe they've found a sober living facility for her in Costa Mesa.  She's continuing to do well.  jellibeans made a final post before last thread was closed about being too optimistic.  I agree completely.  I've found myself really finding time to make sure I don't get too excited and caught up in the progress. Making sure I don't give her too much kudos on her progress.  They're currently working with her on the fact she's held onto a bit of an attachment to her "drug persona" and refers to heroin as a "she" and she talked with me how she needs to stop glorifying all that and drop the "she."

Living in a RTC for 100 days with the structure and rules is very different then moving into the community in sober living where getting high and returning to bad habits is one bad decision away.

What I do know is she's doing the work and I keep reminding her she just needs to live in the moment and keep focusing on today.

I brought my girlfriend/significant other out this weekend as my DD really likes her and hasn't seen her since October.  She came away with a wow she looks really good and just has lost that rebellious nasty edge she had to her.

We attended an al-anon meeting in Orange on Saturday morning and spent the day listening to a speaker with the kids at the RTC and their families.  We also did a multi-family process group where my DD explained she had never thanked me and her mom for all we've done and all the hard decisions we've made to save her life.  She wanted me to know how great we were for all of it and how grateful she is.  We then got a pass for her and we took her shopping as we've discusssed with staff that it's common to get a "new wardrobe" for sober living as a new start.  So we did some modest shopping and was encouraged as my dd was so appreciative and had a gift card and asked very nicely if it went over by just a little would I be able to afford more.  In past she would've kicked and screamed and spent way more and flipped out if I didn't just blindly agree.

We went to dinner and then took her to an AA meeting. She told me her sponsor from NA/AA told her to make these visits good for me and not just for herself so she expressed that she wanted the visit to be something I enjoyed and asked me and my SO what we wanted for dinner not what she wanted. The meetings were eye opening as recopvery has such a big community out in California compared to the Northeast.  There were no less then 80 kids at her AA meeting and by kids I mean practically everyone there was between 15 and 30 years old.  So I'm encouraged that she can actually build a circle of friends who are in recovery and not find herself bored when it comes to finding activities that don't involve alcohol and drugs.  As stated before though, the recovery community is large because there are so many bad influences and so much drugs in that area as well so temper my enthusiasm with cautious optimism that she will continue working her program.


Didn't have a chance to get into details but looks like they found her a sober living facility in Costa Mesa so she should be moving there within a week.

What I do know is RTC has been a blessing as have been everyone on this board who has kept me going along the way and every person who in some way made a little difference on this long and very difficult road.  Today my DD17 is 104 days clean and sober and has hope.  

One of the girls in the multi-family group made a statement I've heard before and now live by.

Recovery Happens -  don't give up 5 minutes before the miracle.

---

A hope for DD16 - Today is intervention day (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=212123.0) (Part One)

Dear crumblingdad

I have tears of joy for your story today... . thank you for sharing it with us all. I love the quote at the end... . your dd and your whole family has been through so much and to see the journey you hve been on gives us all hope. It is hard to contain my excitement to read how far your dd has come.

I'm so happy for you and your daughter! And once again, you give me hope.

This is wonderful news, crumblingdad! I'm so very glad that they have found a sober living family for your daughter, and that she is seeming to be a different person from the one you brought into the RTC kicking and screaming 

What you mention about your SO saying that "she looks really good and just has lost that rebellious nasty edge she had to her" is important... . The first thing we noticed about our dBPDson36 when we picked him up for discharge from the Dual Diagnosis Program that he completed was just that same thing. He was "someone else" rather than the hardened guy (who had only been clean and sober for about 2 weeks when he had checked into that program) we'd seen 21 days before. We knew the minute we saw him and started talking with him that something was different this time... .

My son has been clean and sober for almost 11.5 months now, and is doing better than ever. I know what you mean when you say that though your daughter is sober now, that she needs to stop personalizing heroin/her addiction. My son also was a heroin addict, and it had taken him many of those 11.5 months to get that persona out of his head... . he's way farther than he was the day he was discharged from that program, and he realizes the damage his addiction did to himself and others. But it takes time for the self-image as a junkie to totally dissipate.

I used to panic when he seemed almost wistful when talking about his using days, early on after his discharge. But that wistfulness has gone away, and his statements now about those times are very cognizant of the horror of it all, and he is serious and not cocky and joking about it. It just takes time, and taking it "one day at a time," and as a parent our job is to be supportive of it and not panic-stricken as our child works their new sober persona out in their minds. I'm so happy for you and your daughter 

crumblingdad - good to hear the hope. thanks for the update. qcr |iiii

Tomorrow is the big transition day finally.

We've secured a sober living home in California (which was a more difficult find for us then we anticipated since she's only 17 and most require them to be 18)  for our DD17 and she graduates from Newport Academy's dual dx program tomorrow.  What an incredible road this has been from a juvenile detention center and heroin addiction to where we are in the last 115 days of treatment and sobriety for her.

So a big road ahead.  We've set up bus routes for an intensive outpatient program with a one year plan for that - she'll be in IOP 5 days per week from 4-7:30 pm every day for 10 weeks, then 4 for 10 weeks, 3 for 10 weeks, 2 and then 1 per week.  The program seems promising with a mix of dbt based group therapy, process groups, individual therapy, yoga, mma, recovery meetings and more.

Also have her set up to take a class at a local community college starting in fall and while they help her to find a part-time job she will be attending 2-3 meetings a day.

I'm cautiously optimistic but know the challenges ahead are giant since she still needs to learn to live outside the bubble of RTC, with roommates, and busses, and temptations, and bosses and potential employers.

Thank you for updating. Your story is very inspiring and I hope your dd continues to improve. 

crumblingdad -- keeping your DD in my thoughts and prayers that she will have the perseverence and courage, and well placed support surrounding her, to make it through this challenging time. You are a great dad and she is so blessed to have your love.

qcr |iiii

I am so happy for you all.  Your story is an inspiration to all.  Thinking and praying for continued success.  She has alot of people pulling for her, including all of us.

crumblingdad---

Fantastic! My BPDSD22 hasn't resolved all of her issues by any stretch of the imagination but the truly insurmountable problems dissolved when she got sober. Now SHE has the ability to see her own stuff (sometimes) and she no longer has to repeat the same problems to infinity before she can see that there is a problem and now (sometimes) she actually looks for a workable solution. She sees that the world isn't here strictly for her own benefit- (again, sometimes). She is (sometimes) almost like someone that seems real and authentic

It's honestly more than I hoped for... . and I hope the same and more for your DD and your family.

Thursday

Thank you all - without everyone here there's no way I would've found the resources to help guide and navigate the journey - today's graduation was a beautiful thing.  What happened afterward was unexpected yet amazing.

She was given her cell phone back and laptop.  With that comes social media, and probably my biggest fear for a trigger to relapse and set her back since all her old friends are lurking.  We discussed a lot of it as part of her discharge plan and her contract for sober living.  She assured us she feels she can handle it - her promise to me is if she feels any of it is really triggering she will call her sponsor before doing anything else which seemed like a reasonable deal.

So within minutes of her return to Facebook a mother of an "ex boyfriend" (quick background is said ex boyfriend was sleeping with my DD, punched holes in my walls while sleeping in my home with my DD while I was traveling with work back before RTC, and was helping fund her heroin addiction by having her sell his suboxone prescriptions and making exchanges for dope and money with them) commented on a photo of her she posted that she "still looks like an a-hole and she hopes she never sees her again after she did what she did to her sons girlfriend who is now engaged to her son and will make a great daughter-in-law and told my daughter she was just a dirty disgusting excuse for a human being who will never amount to anything."  yes this came from a grown adult to a 17 year old kid. 

As I was reading this on her Facebook ready to explode I had yet to see my dd's response I was furious and sat there saying "how do I not respond" but I remembered that it's not my place and better not to engage as my DD is in the real world now and has to deal with such things (but really -  god sure is funny with how he works with a test like that within 10 minutes of discharge from 4 months of RTC!)

I then scrolled down to my DD's response which followed all her friends retaliating against this women and my DD wrote "it's ok everyone it's just xxxxx's mom and I just got out of rehab and I'm so above all this stuff - but thank you all for your support I love you all"

As I was reading that she texted me and said "did you read xxxxx's post on my Facebook? dad I think I'm cured because it didn't upset me I just looked at my recovery counselor (who drove her to sober living home) and told her I would pray for her (meaning the lady with the nasty comments).

I guess she's now challenging me on not becoming overly optimistic about things which is fine with me.   |iiii

I am going to stop reading your posts because each time they bring tears to my eyes... . truly wonderful to hear about your dd and how far she has come... .

Awesome  |iiii

qcr

Dear crum, Excellent news good for your dd

Got the dreaded call tonight - she slipped and relapsed this evening.

Looks like she readily admitted it and is safe and director of sober living is taking her to a detox for 72 hours and because she admitted it so quickly will allow her to stay once she gets out Monday.

DD spoke to me crying saying she was sorry and she didn't even like it and doesn't want to do it so hopefully will be just a blip on radar but certainly a disturbing one this quickly.

crumblingdad - my heart is with you today and my prayers for healing for your DD. This transition to more freedom is a scary one for her. It is so good she reached out for help.

qcr

dear crumblingdad

I am sorry to hear that your dd has had a relapse but that is okay... . I am sure you were instantly transported to a time when things were not well with your dd but remember the progress she has made... . it is just like that... . two steps ahead and one back but she is moving forward and that is what is important. I am hoping she can recover and begin again on her journey... . sending a hug your way... . hang in there

Thanks qcr and jellibeans - unfortunately I don't have all the details but she didn't necessarily come forward on her own. Someone told on the girl she was with and they knew our dd had been with her so they confronted her.  At that point she readily admitted it so there are some positives but it sure is frustrating since detox will be expensive and it's impossible to know if this is first of more to come or if this is bottom and it's up from here.

This board and the resources on it along with 12 step meetings have been very helpful dealing with a setback like this.  Last night at 3 am i had to remind myself numerous times of the need to remember the step work with nar and alanon and not get worked up but I'm keeping faith that my higher power will sort this out too.

She's a strong kid and she will come out the other end stronger.

I'm tremendously grateful that both she and I have support here and across the country - I've already had calls first thing this morning from one of the staff where she graduated asking if she could get involved personally (not as an employee) in helping us sort out the next steps.

I only hope that over time I can give back all the support we've received.

Dear crumbling

I think it may be as simply as finding that neutural place... . not the I am so excited she is doing so well it is a miracle or the her life is over and she will never get out the hole she is in... . try to find that middle ground which I know is hard. I think what is so important for me is to have hope... . when you don't have hope then all is lost... . so believe this is just a  bump in the road and things will improve for your dd. I don't think her addiction is an easy one to beat but she seems to be committed to her recovery... . here is a post I have seen here many times and it is a passage that has helped me through some hard times... . I am not a very religious person but this story really helped me see things in perspective... .

There is a story of a small German village with two churches on the two ends of the town. Each year on the feast of Corpus Christi (which we celebrated on June 10th and I went to mass at Notre Dame on the 17th anniversary of my ordination), the people gather at one church to make a journey to the other.

They begin early in the morning and they take the whole day to make a journey of only two miles or so. Why does the journey take so long you might ask? Because for every three steps forward, they take two steps back. There is a method to their madness. For they know that in the Dance of Christian Life there are moments of great joy and much peace and happiness, but they recognize that there are also moments which that us back a few steps and sometimes we lose our way. Some days we feel as though we've taken ten steps forward and other days we feel as if we've backtracked so far that we may never find our way out again. That's life isn't it? We have to remember that we must work on moving forward and not give up when we've fallen behind.

As the people walk they say the great words of St. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians--"Faith, Hope and Love." And with the two steps back they say, "Pain and Suffering." We must acknowledge that along with faith, hope and love; life also brings us pain and suffering. To ignore the fact or live in a fantasy land that looks at the world from rose-colored glasses, sets us up for failure. I know that this journey will bring me much joy and hopefully a deepened sense of my own vocation, but I have to know that I will face difficulties as well.

Those who are too old or too young or infirm to make the journey go up on the hillside above the village to eat lunch and watch the procession. What they have discovered, is that from a distance the procession never seems to move backward. The pilgrimage down below appears to be constantly moving forward. From a distance all of our failures and set backs appear to be smaller than they are. We must take the long view. We must work on getting some perspective in our lives, so that we never allow ourselves to get caught up in the failures and fail to see the forest for the trees.

jellibeans - thanks for sharing this story. It gives me what I need right now - that to procession is always moving forward across the day. Otherwise they would never arrive at their destination.

Keeping faith, hope and love. The greatest of these is love.

qcr

Thanks jellibeans I agree it is about finding the middle ground.  I've been fortunate to recognize that this last month or so realizing her hardest work wasn't graduating from RTC but the work she'd have to do after and the realization a relapse is not just possible but more common then not relapsing.

So I was able to be as ok with it as I could be.  The fact remains the journey has been a gift and I'm grateful no matter what the next step brings in it.  I can't set expectations for her journey, only my own.

I am glad you can look at it that way because are so very right... . have hope and I beleive all things are possible.

Sometimes we need to fall flat on our faces to realize it hurts more than we thought it would. 

Relapse can be part of recovery that re-enforces the fact that this is NOT how we want to live. A valuable lesson that gives us strength to move forward.

All is not lost.

crumlingdad, I'm so sorry to hear that your DD had a set back.  But very happy to hear that she was honest when confronted. To me, honesty goes a long way especially with kids like ours. And she sounds like she has remorse as well, which is really good too.

One day at a time. You are doing great and your DD is trying. We all slip up now and again.

Well the twists and turns continue.  Great news is the "relapse" has remained a one time slip last Friday and a week has passed and she hasn't slipped again.  She's really struggling with staying out there and has been begging to return home saying she's homesick. We've had a few very long and very good conversations though when she's been regulated and she's really listened to the possibility it's her disease of addiction that's calling her home not her recovery.

Yesterday one of the directors from her program called me and decided the sober living home she was in wasn't appropriate as it's new and no other girls were in the home other then the girl running it.  She felt the idol time was making my DD rot and that their IOP program wasn't getting through to her.  So she reached out to a sober living up near the hollywood hills and managed to get her accepted into that.  In the span of about 2 hours she had her moved to this place in LA and is now getting her into a different IOP up there.  She felt this home had a lot of women who were very arts oriented and positive and that my DD really needed a more structured and active sober living home so her recovery doesn't "rot."

Amazing people really… at one point I said "so you understand you are a director and you are driving my kid 90 minutes to a different program out of your own?  How's that going to go over with the owner?"  She said "I don't care how it goes over we are humble enough to know we need to do the right thing with our kids and sometimes it's a great fit and sometimes we need to admit when there are better alternatives and so I'm doing what's best for your daughter and I don't care what anyone thinks."

Then pointed out she lives closer to this facility in LA and one of her sponsee's is the program director so she can continue monitoring and helping with her progress and treatment.

I'll tell you what - this process is a humbling one when I am blessed by so many who are willing to take such lengths for no other reason then to help out someone who was a perfect stranger 4 months ago.

I don't think there is enough gratitude in this world that i could ever express.  

So another day and we will take it one day at a time.  My DD is ok with the move and said "Ok Dad I'm going to recommit for a few more months instead of insisting I go home within 3 weeks." She also admitted her contact with old friends that were using with her prior to going into treatment is really making her want to go home and said she knows it's bringing her down and she needs to stop.  I just said you're probably right and you need to sort that out and do what's best for you as I can't tell you what is best for you - it's on you to decide what you need to do.

Amazing what communication skills and validation skills I've learned here have done to help with our relationship and to have discussions like that at this point.  

Anyways - not getting too excited - not worrying either - Letting go and letting it happen and realizing it's just a long twisting, sometimes painful and always rewarding journey.

Crumblingdad

It is wonderful what happens when someone really cares. And when our kids get that someone really cares - other than mom and dad. I am hoping my DD27 gets this about the two women that are probation officers putting in so much effort to find a good fit for her in recovery. Of course, DD has to accept that she needs recovery.

I will remember "idol time making her rot".  This so applies to my DD over the past several years.

Hang in there.

qcr

Dear crumblingdad

Looks like you found the middle ground... . I think things are still going in the right direction for your dd and she really had done remarkably well with her addition problems. I agree they are better when they are busy. If my dd16 has nothing to do she will spend it in bed watching TV or sleeping. It there a chance she might find a part time job? My dd16 just got a job and I see new energy in her and it gets her out in the public. Not sure if your dd has anxiety issues but my dd does and it is good she can face these fears and try to overcome them. I am thinking about you and I hope things continue to go forward... . I really think your dd17 has come a long way

yes she's been searching for a part time job although it's been a half hearted effort.  I think she's going through motions and frightened of actually getting one and the possibility of failing at it since she's never been able to hold on to one.

It was a requirement of the first sober living - not sure if it's required with this one as they have a very structured schedule but I'm thinking they will require it and push her to get a job as well.  I agree it would be a benefit to feeling she's accomplishing something.

What about a volunteer position at a food bank or old age home? Something like ttha might not put too much stress on her but I do think a job that paid money would be good for her self confidents... . but then I would worry what she was doing with the money... . I hope she finds something... . busy work will keep her from thinking of drugs etc and give her some new people to associate with. Please let us know... |iiii

Wish I could give hope and say this whole road was having a happy ending but it really isn't.

I'm fine and I'll get through it but I've been away a bit dealing with fall out from a pretty tough week.

The short version is our DD17 got homesick she said and needed to be back at home from California.  She went out and smoked pot early last week and purposely got herself kicked out of sober living home.  As a result I refused to go get her and said she would have to deal with it.  The sober living spoke to me and we decided best bet was call police rather then turn her to streets and try to have a 5150 placed on her saying she's a threat to herself since she told director she planned to use.

The police took her in custody as she was given alternative of another RTC where we found a bed at.  She refused the bed and said arrest me then.  Police took her and put her in protective custody out at Los Padrinos Juvenile Detention Ctr in L.A...  They called me and said either I get her in 48 hours or she goes in front of judge and gets ordered home with deputies since she's a minor and I'd be stuck with paying for the transport of her.  In a corner I flew out and got her given I had no choice last week.  She got home friday.  Weekend went ok with me at my home and offered her another RTC to get back on track and she refused.  Said she needed to do this on her own and she'd stay sober.  

She went to her mom's on Sunday afternoon since I travel for work and yesterday was her first day home alone since her mom had to go to work.  Within 2 hours of her mom leaving she had found a ride to a dealer and she was in an ambulance on way to hospital from a heroin overdose.  She's fine, fortunately they used narcon to revive her from unconscious and luckily the kid she shot up with called the ambulance.  I had two more beds secured for her at two facilities yesterday and said her choices were to go to one or I was not going to be a part of this anymore and she'd be on her own.   She's refusing treatment and her mom took her home last night and didn't have heart to kick her out because she felt it would be a death sentence.  I told her Mom I'm done until and unless she calls and says she wants the help.  Can't chase this anymore so my boundary is set and hopefully she makes the right choice.

Dear Crumbling dad:  No wisdom here, but I want to let you know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.  Your devotion to your dd and your persistence in seeking help for her are amazing.  Please be kind to yourself as you deal with these new boundaries.  Sending you     Swampped

crumblingdad, I am so sorry for this setback 

What has been your daughter's stated reasons for this whole thing? Just to come home and leave California?

One thing that my son now admits was a trigger for his relapses after the first 2 Rehabs he completed (within a 3 year period, prior to his success with the Dual Diagnosis Program he completed almost a year ago, now) was a fear of success. Once he was successfully clean and sober for a length of time, he panicked that everyone would expect him to be "fixed" and "normal", and he was scared to death of remaining sober and on-the-ball in the outside world. He was afraid of failing, of letting everyone down, of trying to live a "normal" life.

In his particular case, he has Hepatitis C from heroine addiction, and needing treatment for that, by wrecking the 6-month clean-and-sober requirement for the dreaded treatment for it, he could also circumvent that outcome. In his head, if he voluntarily started using again then it was his decision to mess up, and not a personal failing (go figure!) if he couldn't make it sober in an outside world he feared.

We've actually had this discussion: he feared not being able to make it in the outside world long-term (besides fearing the Hep C treatments), feared disappointing everyone if we got our hopes up because of a long-term sobriety, so he decided to mess up on purpose. He is amazed at the logic in that, now that he's been clean and sober for more than a year, but at the time it seemed like a good idea to him. 

Maybe you can have a serious discussion with your daughter at some point to figure out what motivated this relapse; my son was able to overcome this fear of success/failure dichotomy when we could let him know that we gave him one day at a time to recover, and we didn't expect him to be "normal" with a "normal" life until he was ready for it. He is still not "normal" in his own mind (though he is now the most normal he's ever been in his whole life!), and we are letting him get used to the idea of success without undue pressure to perform.

My heart truly goes out to you CD. You have really put a lot of effort into this. As we've dicussed, we can only do so much and it's up to our kids to continue on the path we are trying to set for them.  Take care of yourself and take comfort in knowing that you gave it your all.  

T

dear crumbling dad

I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am to read your recent post about your dd... . I do think heroin is one tough drug to kick and your dd is tired of fighting... . I agree that she has to want it but at the same time I feel she needs to know that she still has your support in some way. I think it is good you have that boundary in place and I know you are exhausted from all you have been doing... . I just wish there was a way to help her... . there has to be a place for her somewhere. I just don't understand why she has taken this turn and has given up... . I am so sorry

Crumblingdad - this boundary is so painful. The powerlessness of not being able to compel our child to seek help to stop the self-destructive behaviors.   

I can hear my DD27 saying over and over to me as she is starting to find more calm from her meltdown at detox - waiting for the police to come take her back to jail:  Mom, I only take drugs because I WANT TO!... .

There are ways to show you love your D and keep to your boundary. You have been inside-out with these - validation, mindfulness... . Take a break from searching for solutions.  Please find ways to be kind to yourself. What does your support network look like? Seek it out.

qcr

To say she's committed to her recovery when she is sitting in an ER with tubes in her arms after being alive only thanks to some narcon and a quick ambulance and looking me in the eyes saying "no dad I'm not going back to any sort of rehab."

Is not someone committed to her recovery.  I get that it's difficult and I have plenty of empathy for her disease(s) and will always love her.

I've been in the middle ground and avoided highs and lows of expectations for her for quite some time.  

I haven't lost hope but I won't be a part of it and she's not welcome in my life until she comes and asks for help again.  She will always be loved and always have a place to go if she truly wants help.  But that help will not be some version that her disease is demanding it'll be help that is what she needs and is based on her commitment to recovery.

I am sorry for what happened with your dd.  Heroin addiction really sucks!  My son(32) was doing heroin when he lived in my town.  Now, he lives about 8 hours away.  I am not sure how he is doing, but he has not been asking for any money.  I am taking that as a positive sign.  He had an enabling grandma.  However, she had a stroke and in a nursing home.  He no longer has an enabling grandma to help him out.

I think you are right in taking a firm stand.  I hope she will be ready for help in the near future.