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 My wife is in rehab many states away.  She wants me to speak to her and her counselor via Skype, "So that you can tell me all the bad things I ever did to you. I know you hold back. I need to make amends, and I need to know exactly how I have hurt you."

She wants my 11 year old  daughter to do the same.

This sounds like her typical manipulative games, but she says her counselor wants it and thinks it is important. I don't care to speak with her, and  am not interested in her making amends or her recovery. I wonder if she is playing her counselor. I told her I would think about it, but only if her counselor called me and spoke to me in private first.

Questions-

She is in a dual diagnosis facility (rehab/psych). She has no diagnosis other than anxiety/ depression. Will they respond to my descriptions of her behaviors?  Or are they doing typical AA stuff?

We haven't done any divorce paperwork yet. Can not participating in this be held against me? Could I record it?

I'm  tempted to agree, but only if I can record it and describe her abuse/neglect of our  daughter.

This whole things sounds like a bad idea to me.

Yeah DaddyO, bad idea. And yes of course she is playing off her "counselor". She is a pro... . right? The rehab environment is a super charged emotional mish mash of "feelings" and personalities... . enablers seem to be drawn to careers in rehab work. Lots of excitement and drama there.

Skype for ya to dump all the bad poop she has dropped on ya!... . yeah riiiight!... . what kind of therapist would cosign and implement that kind of structure is beyond my grasp... . recovery is about "personal responsibility and ownership"... . this whole idea of skyping is an obvious manipulation of intent. She knows full well what she has done... . unless of course her emotional amnesia is kicking in.

Maybe it's time for everybody to get honest... . you say your not interested... . maybe it's time to tell her where you are really at. As in ... . "no... . I'm not interested... . if YOU need to make amends... . send em in a letter".

But then again... . I'm justa fool onna hill.

I'd have her shrink prove himself to you first, qualifications, integrity, private conversation with him first.  Standard rehab "help" are usually recovering drunks themselves, with sometimes sketchy resumes and minimal qualifications.

And really the bottom line is you don't have an obligation to, unless you think you have an obligation to her personally.  Or maybe you think your daughter would benefit from it.

I'm in accordance with Heel about the therapist qualifications and intentions although I do not think it appropriate to get an 11 year old child involved with that crazy idea under ANY assurance or condition.

I'm looking at this in the perspective of "hitting rock bottom" If you don't care about making amends or speaking to her. This could be a chance for her to hit rock bottom and she may seek treatment on her own for BPD.

I wouldn't expose my D to this.

I won't expose my daughter to it. My wide has already leaned on my daughter too much for emotional support.

I'm curious enough to talk to her counselor.

Thanks for your opinions. It really helps.

This sound like part of the 12 Steps?


The problem is, it is so easy for this to turn into a blamefest.  Would your recounting of history be used to let her have an excuse to shift blame claiming you're so negative, exaggerating or worse?

You cannot fix her.  Nor can your children.  However, if she is improving you could support her in limited ways.  Only time can reveal that.

Hmm... . What is the difference between a counselor and a therapist?  Sometimes I almost use them interchangeably but maybe that's not right?

Would counselor be a word more appropriate to describe helping you deal with your circumstances and situations, to cope better with more skills?

Would therapist be a word more appropriate to describe helping you deal with your own issues, to improve yourself with more mindfulness and skills?

  thanks Foreverdad.

I don't know the twelve step thing too well, I get that there is a need to make amends for her to heal. If she can heal, that's great. How do I support her if what seems best for me is to not get sucked in?

Part of me wants to make a list three feet long so I don't leave anything out. Part of me wants to get involved and help. What sounds best in my head right now is to explain to her counselor why I don't trust this idea, and that my wife knows very well what she could make amends for.

Do you think making a list 3 ft long will make a difference?

I think you already know the answer, listen to your intuition DaddyLonghair.

Hi DLH-

A couple things about 12 step work.  The caveat to the 9th step is 'except when to do so would injure them or others'.  A twelve step amends is a one-sided conversation where she would be making amends, apologizing, atoning, however you want to put it, basically owning her crap, taking responsibility, expressing humility, remorse and a true concern for your feelings and wellbeing.  You know her and know if she's capable of that, but what it isn't is a conversation or a fight, like marriage counseling or an airing of grievances.

Also, the 9th step is 9th for a reason.  It's important to work through the 8 steps before it first and get a foundation in recovery and sobriety before you set about 'fixing the past.'  I don't know how long she's been in recovery, but it's common to want to blow through all the steps early, in a compulsive burst to 'fix' one's self in a hurry, which is really just an offshoot of the active addiction that got her into recovery to begin with.  'Time takes time' is an AA mantra, and attempting a step before a drunk is ready won't work and may cause more damage.  There is no timeframe, but it's common for someone in recovery to really get to their 9th step a year or more into the program.

Take what you need, leave the rest.  We've all had mixed feelings towards our exes, a deep caring and compassion for a beautiful but damaged soul, along with a fck you btch to go along with it, a normal response to abuse.  I say take care of you and your daughter first and decide if talking to your wife will help the two of you or not; time to get selfish.  Take care of you!