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So two things combined to make my weekend fun... .

My uBPDw and I play co-ed soccer together.  One of the guys on the team invited me to play poker next weekend with some people from his euchre club.  Now he's mentioned this months ago, and every couple weeks my wife will try and engage me "why do I want to make all these connections with women, why don't I teach her how to play poker so we can go together... . "  Back when I would engage with her I told her I'm hurt that she would want to spend hours learning a game she has no interest in, only to keep me from spending a few hours in the presence of other women... .

When we were in counseling (before I knew about BPD) the counselor talked about how the strongest relationships are those where each have their own interests that they can share along with some mutual interests... . that never took hold and so even though by any standards we spend way more time together than most couples even a walk to the bar with her brother can start a fight... .

So then Sat we go out with her sister and her husband and my sister-in-law starts talking about my getting some 'alone time' while a bunch of the gals go wedding-dress shopping on Sunday.  Now we've been married 4 years (both second, I'm divorced she's widowed) and I can count on my hands the number of hours I've been in the house with her not there but that didn't keep us from fighting that night (why do you want to be alone?  What are you going to do that I can't know about?... . ) until I finally screamed "shut the F up or I'm sleeping in the other room"

OK, not my best night either  :'(

So I know I can't convince her of anything, but when it all starts I'm looking for a non-confrontational SET example, with the truth statement that makes sense to someone who sees poker (or anything really) as wanting to spend time with other women.

Hi IsItHerOrIsItMe,


Quite right, most of the relationships here are too close considering there is one party in it who does not have a clear idea what their own emotions are and another party too eager to bend over backwards. The path out of this mess is marked by boundaries that are established. It is a stony path.


you don't want to convince her but you want her to believe and accept your message  . It is not possible. I suggest you know that you can't convince her but you are struggling to accept that fact and adjust accordingly.

You can use SET and state what you believe are the facts. But you have no control over her accepting your view of the world. None. Accepting that she sees things differently and is unhappy about it may well be the only option you have.

But then do facts really matter? Does it matter what your wife believes? I would suggest it is not as important and there are other aspects that equally need attention namely her level of emotional excitation. You may not be able to get her to like it but keeping her on "dislike" and avoiding "upset, yelling, freaking out and acting destructively" is a major achievement. Think about it - your wife is jealous - and frankly she has every right to be so. Her emotions - she can feel whatever she wants.

So instead of trying to focus on facts lets focus on emotions. What emotions are in play and need validation:

 - jealousy

 - insecurity

 - change/different/never done before

 - loss of control

How could such a statement look like:

- When hearing that I could think you believe we play strip poker. <a bit risky depending on her mood. Be prepared to hear it back months later and take it with humor.>

- Yeah, not done this for a long time. Sure is a different weekend for a change. Feels a bit odd.

- You almost sound like I'm running after these women.

Essentially what you are dealing with is establishing some boundary between your private life and hers. This is going to be resented and there is a low level extinction burst ongoing. You can only manage the fallout of such events - one usually can not avoid them. Keeping calm yourself, validating her, sticking to a simple story and keeping your course will likely get you somehow through it. The establishment of this boundary alone or repeats thereof will change the relationship dynamic quite a lot in many subtle ways - mostly for the better - you'll sense it when you get there another day.

Until then - enjoy your game  *)

Why not teach her to play?

It may help her feel she could be included or have a choice to go and have a good time with you.

She wants to be welcomed.

As it is, she is cut out of the situation, can't go and feel welcome and wanted by you. She asked to be included and it would reassure her. As a result of the stonewalling on it, she thinks there is something to hide and that you want her out of the way so you can flirt.

How do you think she feels alone at home while you leave her behind and she feels pushed out and invalidated and ignored while other ladies get to be there and enjoy the game and the time around you?

You know how she feels: hurt, angry, unwanted, scared.

I agree that everyone needs their own space and you deserve yours.  You are essentially going to the party and dancing without her.

Consider teaching her the game. She may lose feeling so threatened if she knows she can go and play too. She may not want to go then. Or she may go and you will have your lovely wife there enjoying the social time and having fun. Much more attractive than her sitting at home and you walking into her upset after you were out alone at such an event.

Mainly because this is her rule for any and all activities.  If I'm there and there are women present then she needs to be there... . because anything less and I'm jeopardizing our marriage.

Do I really want to set that precedent?

Possibly this is a question about appropriate behavior in marriage rather than BPD.

I understand you are not wanting to comply with her request.

From a marriage point of view, including her is correct. If you tag this as a BPD issue and that she is horning innapropriately on your private hobby time and you don't want her there... . probably I should bow out of the thread. You are entitled to time alone obviously. On this particular situation, I actually think you will end up with a  great deal more marriage trouble by taking a stand on *this* issue.

Is there a reason that you know of for why she feels so strongly about this, ie, was she cheated on in a prior relationship, have you stepped out on her in this one, or done disappearing acts with her.

The main point I am making by asking those questions, is look at the root of the issue, rather than fighting it out over the symptoms of the issue. It will become very damaging and circular if you focus on symptoms.