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... . and I was ok. She had previously said she wanted to keep taking the kids to Sunday school even though we started switching off weekends (starting this week). Part of me thought it was just her mirroring, but she actually showed up today. During a break, I went to look for my kids. I think she expected me to ignore them. They saw me an aisle over, but did not approach. I'm hurt, but that immature. Need to "man up" so to speak, and realize that I will have a r/s with her for the better part of the next 17 years.

I found them at S4's classroom. Walked with them to a "family" room outside of the church sancutary, a place set aside for family whose kids don't do well in daycare, or who just want a little solitude with the sermon broadcast in. D1 was cool. Let me hold her for a while, then fell asleep in her mom's arms. We sat together. Kind of uncomfortable, but I survived. The message was one of the blind seeing. I'll give the kids' mom one thing: that she is a seeker. We went and got S4 afterwards. One lady whom I've talked to previously said, "is that your wife?" I said that it was our kids' mom, but that she had moved out, though I was glad she showed up with the kids. The lady looked sadly at me, but seemed glad she was there anyway.

The kids' mom asked me if I wanted to go eat lunch with them. I said it was ok. It was uncomfortable to be sure for me. But dealing with the kids kept me grounded. Their mom asked me, "so how are you doing?" Yes... . I expected something like that. I know she still cares about me in her way, but I deflected. Told her a little of what I did yesterday (hiking, laundry), then didn't offer more. We talked a little about S4's preschool and such. Then not much more conversation. During a lull, she offered that she has a new appreciation for our kids, that they are healthy and don't have major behavioral issues. She realized this going to a class where a lady was talking about her special needs daughter. I nodded and said, yes, I was special needs also in a way when my mom adopted me (maybe this was slightly invalidating, I don't know). She then said that she was working on being a better mom and realizing this helped her step back as well. Then telegraphed some guilt about working on her own issues at the same time and that it was hard, but she was trying to be good to the kids. I replied that there was nothing wrong with her working on herself, as the kids need her strong (implying that she shouldn't feel too guilty). I didn't pry further on what exactly her "working on herself" meant. Not my business, though I think she is still looking to me for some kind of validation. I certainly won't INvalidate her, for my kids' sake. And at the end of the day, our pwBPD are still that: people. Sometimes we may forget that through all of the pain, but certainly understandable for those here who have been at the receiving end of the more extreme behaviors and actions.

That was it. Kids were ok. I pick them up tomorrow (I thus need to clean the house). Then get them for a 3 day weekend next week when I will take them out of town (their mom has my blessing... . I think in a way she misses those trips, too. It's very relaxing getting out of the city).

Before some senior member sees this and chimes in,"so how do you feel about all of that?"

Uncomfortable, but not as much as before when with her. I still mostly avoided her eyes at lunch, but we did talk. Strangely, it kind of defused the anger I'd been feeling this past week. Appreciative, that she is trying. Whether or not it's blatant mirroring (and it would be if we didn't have kids), or whether she is seeking my approval is irrelevant. Better than mirroring the clubbing, womanizing, narc man-boy. Maybe that will die down sometime, or blow up. Who knows? Not my business. My business is making sure that the kids' mom is emotionally stable, though I ultimately have no control over that, I can certainly contribute to making things worse. So as much as I can, practicing kindness and decency (with clear boundaries), I will contribute to what I know is right, rather than what the hurt Turkish says on the inside.

Maybe she was right in a way, when she said months ago: "Maybe this had to happen!" Though I still think it's unhealthy for her to compartmentalize like she does, if the father of her children is not around triggering her lack of self worth, then she can work on being a better mom when she is with the kids.

I still don't know what the future holds. I will plan, but I know that I can't control it. I can't control her (certainly not), and I can't control the kids, ultimately. I can, however, control myself. I also accept that feelings of anger will still cycle within me, but that it is ok. In time, this too will fade. One day at a time.

Wow, that's a lot of low contact.  Impressive.  I wish I could do that.  Too much hurt and anger for me to do anything more than grab the weekend bag from him when he drops the kids off.

Were you ever able to express your anger at her?

Thank you for sharingp, Turkish. When I read that whole thing I felt inspired by your obvious growth and it gave me hope.  I am approaching my next move of telling my uBPDH that we are through. I will council with at least one more L this week and my moments have been filled with anxiety. I know that I need to defuse and distract my obsessive thoughts with healthy actions... . Kindness to others, swim, yoga, reaching out... . Etc.  However, this is a big move a after 22 years, 4 children and the realization that my illusions about a healthy marriage are just that... . Illusions.  I feel fear and sadness.  Fearful of the imagined resistance that is to come. Sad, like hearing that a loved one is terminally ill.  I did read in Sarah Ban Breathnach's book "Simple Abundance", the following words:  "... . We're often more upset by the loss of the illusion than by the reality of the rubble... . "  These words help me to accept my feelings in the moment and try not to project what I will feel, rather,  just allow for how I do feel right now.  As you suggested... . One day (one moment) at a time. Good work, I'm sure it was not easy.

Oh yes. Quite a few times. In nov. when her boy toy called her phone as we sat down to eat with our kids. That was quite the conversation. She cried during that one. I accused she and him of being by zeros and morally bankrupt. No matter, it continued. Then in early Jan when we were burglarized a second time, she posted pics of the mess right away on FB, then he started texting her. I saw his name come up, big tough guy! That was more of an argument, pretty childish on both our parts. I realized this quickly and ended it. She was smug at first, then some tears came. At that point I actually felt a little bad. Other than our big breakup argument in early Oct (where I "technically" ended our r/s, though it was unsalvagable by that point), that was about it.

As my T said, things like that I say, she won't hear, so its a waste of time to say them. There was one time I did go off on her in early Dec calling her on her abusive nature. She kind of collapsed on the bed, and I felt bad, like hurting a child. I recounted the conversation here, and one member said I was being verbally abusuve (others thought too easy, go figure), even if my tone was conversational. I don't know, but that's why I went NC as much as we could while ,living in the same house with this going on for the past five months.

In the end, none of it mattered. She still fell in "love" (need) with the dude. She still left. She is sorry on some level for it, but it changes nothing. It is natural for us to seek validation of our pain, but during the r/s, they constantly invalidated us, no? With the worst invalidation being the cheating. What can we really expect from people with stunted empathy and poor morality?

I still imagine very acerbic conversations with her in my head when my anger cycles. I say very hurtful things in my head to imaginary Ex. Things that while maybe correct, are horrible. I know I need to keep them to myself, because my pain is toxic. Like she once told me when explaining her rages, "I want everyone else to feel my pain!" This is diametrically opposed to my values "do no harm" "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That's what differentiates us from them: a solid understanding of who we are, and the freewill to say "enough!" Enough pain. Enough suffering. The generational cycle stops with me.

That's over three times my r/s and twice the children, Landslide, that is so much tougher, but congratulations on valuing yourself and taking control. Good quote! Yes... . perhaps the toughest part emotionally, validating our own feelings. Accepting them, and knowing "this too shall pass." I wish you strength in doing what you have to do, and protection for your heart, and the hearts of your children.

Thank you for that, Turkish.  Sadly, I just didn't know, thought I was crazy, owned more than I should have.   When I dug deeper for answers and came across the description for BPD, my jaw dropped.  It may not have eased the fight but FINALLY there was an explanations and relief, and anger and a whole slew of other emotions.  I read recently "When the student is ready, the teacher appears". I love that because it helps me accept that we are all ready in our own time and that nobody's time can be forced. And also, that my time was not wasted, I just wasn't ready, until now. I love reading your words, and I am grateful for your inspiration.

Thanks, Landslide, and thank you for your support. That's what healthy relationships of any kind are about: reciprocity.