BPDFamily.com

Mod: Thread continued from this thread here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=219567

it is so hard because it is not mood swings... it is literally every day all day pissed off.  Calling my work, at home, everything.  She is angry about everything

1. angry we have debt.  We did not have debt when I had complete control of finances and she seems to think that $25k in credit card debt is nothing to worry about.  That it is no big deal.  In fact, when I did have savings because I never believed in debt, she thought i was crazy and that everyone had debt.  This is coming from somebody who lived alone for a total of 6 months in her life and declared bankruptcy

2. Angry over everybody around her having one or two things better than us.  She forgets that we have a GIANT amount of medical bills ALL from her.  She forgets they all have two incomes, or that they do not travel or eat like we do.  We eat out EVERY meal.  When I say eat out, it is also talking about $100 meals for two.   We have constant renovations on a house she hates.  So she wants a new house a new car etc.  She considers her 2008 vehicle an outdated piece of .  

3. Angry over her degree.  She is now pissed she has a degree in Art and cannot get a job since she does not want to teach, but she does not want to make art cause she is scared of failure.  She has a decent cleaning business but does not want to expand that past the part time.

4. Angry at my mother beause she blames her for pushing her to art since that was want my wife wanted to do.  

5. Angry at me for not telling my mother off and cutting her out of my life because she feels my mother didnt show up at an art show, and that my mother did not properly thank her for a gift she gave my niece.  Angry cause my sister said something my wife said to her at Christmas and my mother asked her to please do not cause trouble.  Wife then took her to garage and told her to but out of our business, and my mother stated she better not ever physically abuse me again.  Wife says I should have shut my mother up on that.  Angry that I have not provided more things for her.  Angry I have not been something... i do not know what

6. Angry at her family

I do not know anymore...  She is on the phone asking me if I am coming home tonight or moving out.  She seems oblivious to how this is killing me and she said she does not care at all.

she is once again calling me at work berating me.  

She will not talk to the kids with me about what is going on.  She seems to think they are oblivious.  

I do not know what to do.  She wants a new house or else that I have no idea how to afford.  I have no clue how to make it through a divorce.  How to fight her, how to take the slings, how to take the guilt... see the pain she suffers, see the pain the kids suffer.  I gave everything I thought I could and then some to this.  

Is it normal for a BPD to be literally 22/7 pissed off and angry and mean?

I do not recall it being like this before... .  the kids, everything might set her off.  It is literally 22 hours of every day if not all day.  What if it is me?  What if I am killing this marriage?

I just do not know...  I just want it to stop.

Hi hurthusband,

it sounds like your wife is continually dysregulated. This is not your fault and you can't control her with much what is under your control. She is not angry about everything she is simply angry and anything the catches her eyes is being blamed for that.


She is not asking you she is angry and transfering her anger on to you by using provocative and insulting questions.

She is also afraid that you are moving out. Do you know how to validate abandonment?

  - First of all it is very important not to invalidate it. It is very easy to invalidate abandonment by simply claiming to stay forever. Such "reassuring" statements are poison.

  - Validating abandonment would be "You are afraid I'm moving out." or "We have a crisis and our marriage is struggling. You are concerned with being left alone.".


Waayy too much phoning - can you stop talking her calls in some ways? Her behavior is abusive and you need to protect yourself here. Your sanity and your job are at risk if she is allowed to continue to bug you 24/7. What about: "My work is your castle!".

Set

S: Do my best with the money problems

E: there is tremendous unbearable pressure on you and everything is bleak

T: I need to do my best at work to continue to move us forward. These phone calls are too disruptive and during work I can not afford to take them for the sake of our financial stability.

When call comes:

Hi, ahh it is you. ... . As said - I will not discuss this right now. Talk to you in the evening. Until later <hang-up>

There will be an extinction bust (more calls and a little crazier behavior) but what can you loose?


Has she been checked out for hormonal changes? Cysts can change the balance of hormones for a period of times.


Can you reach out to a T for yourself. You are certainly not killing the marriage but you may need more than a hug   to help you through the crisis. 

Wow, that sounds really rough.  I know that feeling of heightened anxiety over everything far too well, where you think there is no safe place left.  It sounds as if she has invaded ever corner of your life.  I don't know how exactly to accomplish it, but somehow try to find some time for yourself, switch the phone off.  When she calls and asks you if it is over or not, are you really tempted to say "yes"?

I am really tempted to say its over. 

Everything escalated even more yesterday.  After being here, I avoided going home.  I went to my sons Boy Scout event.  Saw him get some badges which was cool and paid some dues.

Then went home to drop him off.  when I got there, I checked on my other son who was sick.  I asked if he wanted medicine to which my wife said "why didnt you ask me?  i already gave him medication and double medicated him last night cause you did not tell me about it"  I did tell her about it last night, but she was sleeping all day and night.  She kept on saying that I did nothing but "sit around eating ice cream".  I finally snapped.  I said "I did tell you that I did give him medicine, but you had taken my xanax and were out of it"  She got really angry and called me a liar and everything was fine.  It then hit me that after the kids went to bed, I had taken a xanax before bedtime after I got all the kids in bed to sleep.  I asked her to hold on and checked with oldest kid if he happened to be up and remember me eating ice cream.  He said "no, but you were eating something out of a bowl".  I then promptly went in and apologized to my wife about the whole ice cream thing and saying she did not remember correctly and that I was eating something out of a bowl and that it was my fault that I probably did it half asleep on the xanax.  She then went irrate blaming me for being a pillhead and everything else.  Just blasting me...

I said I was going to leave, and go to my parents to stay.  She followed me out to car even yelling how I have ruined everyones lives.  I got to my parents and she had already called my parents house to inform them I was coming and possibly unsafe to drive from xanax.  I should state that if I do take a xanax it is the prescribed amount and it is maybe 1 time a week.  I went in... ate a few oranges and then got ready for bed.  My mother was out with some friends.  Keep in mind that my wife blames my mother for basically everything bad in her existance.  I work with my mother in our family business, and she had asked me what was wrong I just started crying.  She has known many a days when my wife will call all the phones and wreak havoc on our business by tying me up berating me.  I told her that things were rought and I might need a place to stay.  When I get out of the shower and get into bed it is about 11:00 pm.  My wife calls and says that my mother called her and threatened her.

I call my wife back, as my mother is not home.  My wife explains that my mother called her and told her to "leave my son alone, stop hurting him or else".  My wife hung up the phone which I aplaud her for.  I am sure my mother had a couple of drinks and I hate that my mother said anything.  My mother then texted her saying that "sorry about the lost connection on the phones.  I am sincerely concerned about your mental health.  Myles as at my house. I sincerely hope and pray you can work it all out.  Much love"  then "I have been so concerned since Myles had a black eye before the holidday and I talke dto you about it"  Then was when my wife physically abused me.  My wife never responded thankfully, but it was a low blow by my mother to bring this up.

I apologized and told my mother to not contact my wife under any circumstances.  I go into work and am here now.  My wife contacts me saying that she has her therapist tommorow and I am welcome to join her, but for us to continue I am going to have to quit my family business.  That also means I am going to have to close my business because I do alot of my business while at my family business. 

I have no clue where I am going to find another job near 6 figures which is still not enough for my wife with my expertise and experience.  I have looked and still looking.  She is spending so fast I do not even have the funds to pay our taxes this year.  She had us change some of our taxes so we could qualify for a bigger home that she wants but it raised my taxes $10k.

Am I wrong?  Should I quit my job and work?  Is she wrong?  I know its not an all wrong or all right, but I do not know if I should just run and start a new life in a new city away from everyone.  My wife now says she wants what I will give in a divorce and she has to go find a job now... that sure would have helped alot of problems while married. 

What do I do?  Is my mother some psycho that my wife keeps telling me she is?  I certainly see her being overprotective sometimes.  My wife gets ballistic cause she didnt thank her for a gift my wife gave her granddaughter while at same time my wife never thanked my mother for a gift that was given to her son... I have no clue...   I just feel insane

Hi hurthusband

Normally I don't tell someone what he should do. Don't quit your job just because of her demands. If you would do so, she would bring the next. A new car, a new house, whatever. Is a obstacle race you will never win.

I think you did the right thing about being with your parents. Now stick with your boundaries. Its not about right or wrong, its about your needs.

Hang in there, HH.  

she says her therapist says my mother is crazy and a problem... If that is true, I do not want that influencing our life, but on other hand, my wife sees things very strangely and I have no clue what she is telling is accurate or just in her mind.  sometimes what she sees seems waaay off on people

Please, please, please don't quit your job.  It will put you in a complete hole and make things worse than they are, and as you know, they are pretty bad.  She will even deny that she told you to do it!  She is setting up impossible circumstances.  There have been a few of us here who have been in a situation in which our spouses kept telling us different things to do, and we did A, B, and C, just to have the relief from them nagging us... . but eventually there was another thing.  You need your job.  It is probably the one place you can have peace, but more importantly, you need to pay for things - shrinks, doctors, maybe stuff for your kids, maybe a lawyer if she ever makes a false charge against you.  Do you want to not be able to afford those things? 

You have to be strong about that. 

I think you have lost a lot of perspective to the point where you are blaming yourself for COMPLETELY normal reactions.  In a normal relationship, you are allowed to say things without thinking once in a while.  You are allowed to sit and eat out of a bowl or take one pill a week without someone exaggerating it and making you feel like you can't breathe without having it scrutinized.  A normal spouse would hug you, offer to help you with your stress, not tell you that you are a pill popper.

I know that you love her.  But you can't let things go on like this.  It is making you believe you are at fault when you are not.  It's giving you constant anxiety.  You can't be there to help her in life or to help the kid(s) or at least help yourself if you have a heart attack or have some other breakdown due to stress.

So what can you do if someone is destroying you, but you love them? 

Maybe talk to her therapist - or send a letter?  You may fear that she will find out and see it as a transgression.  The T can't tell you what your wife is going through, but if she feels there's a serious problem, maybe she can give advice?  I don't know... .

Maybe, as someone said, talk to your own therapist - but this is hard bcause it takes them a while to know the situation, and some of them are passive, and you find out too late.  Maybe one who specializes in BPD or domestic violence?

Talk to a lawyer - google to see who in your area handles domestic violence and restrainign orders and mental illness. 

Here's another idea - Bill Eddy, who wrote the book on this sort of stuff.  He gives consultations.  I did one over the phone with him.  Costs a little less than a lawyer (which he is) and while he says he can't 'advise' you, you can phrase it in a certain way (what would a person do in this situation?)  You can find him on-line.

Your wife harasses your workplace and accuses you of stuff.  This isn't something that can happen forever.  She may make a false DV accusation against you or something else one day.  Please tape her and keep a secret journal.  Tape these episodes.  Just to protect yourself.

If she wasn't always this bad, perhaps there is a stressor that triggered her.  Maybe the debt.  Maybe her kids getting older, who knows what else.  I don't know what you can do about that.  Quitting your job isn't gonna help any of that, though!

It sounds like she is trying to isolate you from people.  This is typical abusive behavior.  SHE IS TAKING AWAY THE ONLY FEW THINGS YOU HAVE OUTSIDE OF HER - family, a job.  If you think you are in a bad position to save your marriage, your mental health, and kids now, when you lose the other supportive people, and/or lose your source of income, you'll really be at the end.

I finally had to divorce my husband who I loved more than anything.  He still thinks we'll get back together and is finally in counseling.  I can breathe now.  But there are downsides.  I don't like sharing the kids.  Divorce is expensive and hellish and scary, and so is figuring out custody.   If he'd let me alone I might be able to thrive, but when coparenting, you are always in each other's lives to some extent.  I say all this only because legally leaving may not end your relationship with her, it just helps you try to protect yourself.  Of course, it also strains your relations.  I guess I'm just trying to give you a little picture of leaving - lets you breathe, but you have new issues to deal with. 

There are options available to you should things get worse - a restraining order, a civil restraint (specific one) forbidding her to call your office (different from a restraining order), sending her a lawyer letter saying she has to stop the harassment (I did that to my xhubby a year before things finally got to a head... . it did help for a bit, but this can also tip your hand, not sure I recommend it in your case).  There may be creative things I'm not thinking of.  You can also report some of what's been happening to the police and have them make a report, and not have her arrested or anything. 

I know you love her.  You love someone who is destroying you to the point that you don't even realize what she is doing to you.  Many of us know how that feels.  I guess my conclusion is that you have to do something - not sure what, but something.  Talk to her T, send her T a letter asking for help, go to the session with her and only bring up things that are ironclad, get a consulation with Bill Eddy, talk to a lawyer about how to stop her from calling your work.  My mom has mental health issues and used to do that with me. 

You are a GOOD PERSON, you did NOT cause this, and you are not a miracle worker.  All you can do is keep loving people around you (including her if you want), realize you are a nice guy (no one's perfect) and that you are trying to do your best.  Things can only get better.

pwBPD often do not tell the truth about what their therapists say.

Do you REALLY think a therapist is going to tell her your mom is a problem?

Funny thing, my xhusband told me during our first year of marriage that his therapist said the same thing!  My mom is mentally ill but she didn't bother my x at all.  The fact is, sometimes I had to deal with her, and that meant less attention to give my husband, and also, everything stressed him, so the idea of her being mentally ill stressed him too.  So he claimed to me his therapist told him that she was causing tension and a problem in our marriage.  I had been dealing with her problems for 20 years and never let them get in the way of any relationship.

But... . to stop my (now x) husband from saying that, I told my mom to call me only at work and never at home.

Isn't that ridiculous?  What if she had died?  Then how would I have felt?

Anyway, xhubby still said she was causing problems.  All that walking on eggshells for nothing.

Turns out he wasn't even SEEING a therapist!  After we got divorced he told me he made the whole thing up.  For a year he would say his T said this or that.  It was allll made up.

So - he wanted to get my mom out of our lives.  He wanted all the attention.  He wanted someone to blame. 

If something doesn't pass your smell test, you are probably right.  Your therapist may be HOPING you call to talk to him/her!

Hi hurthusband

I agree with momtara that a good therapist would not say things like "your mom is a problem".

Another approach would be some thoughts about right or wrong. The decision about your work is something beyond right or wrong. Its based on what you feel and think is good for you, for whatever reasons. Could be the money, the people there, whatever. None of this reasons are better or worse. They are based on your personality.

Does this makes some sense to you?

yesterday, our anniversary oddly enough...

went to therapist.  I spent 4 hours preparing... had a 7 page document expressing everything I felt and why I felt different ways based on track record.  I tried not to bring up one time stuff like the drug addiction or cheating, etc.  just stuff relevant to now like the spending

Therapist let me talk about the whole time after my wife started out trying to throw my mom under the bus.  My mom totally fell into the trap Monday which really screwed me over.  My wife called them telling them I was pilled up and I needed to stay there and not let me leave.  My mom was at an event with friends and heard about it... with a few drinks in her.  My mom is still upset that before Christmas Eve my wife gave me a black eye cause she was pissed my mother brought my neice to my wife's college graduation.  So when my wife called and said I was pilled up, my mom says she thought she had done something to me (my wife also asked for a suicide pact on that same night).  When she said I took them and my script is what I took, my mom said "ok, then things should be fine"... unfortunately... she did not stop there... she said "you need to stop hurting my son and family or else.  you do know who I am and that I will not tolerate you harming my family", my wife said, which I could see my mother saying.  Wife hung up on my mom which was completely appropriate.  My mother then texted wife backtracking saying that she is concerned for her mental well being and she does care for her... etc  still inappropriate.

basically reinforced the idea that my mom is against her and plotting.  I know my mother was trying to defend me, but i am grown, and i told my mother that i know she was trying to help, but that only made things worse and that I am grown and whatever happens happens.  My mother explains she cares of my wife and even asked if my wife wanted a job with her, but at same time, my mother does not understand why my wife hates her and after suicide pact is a bit concerned she might do major harm to me.

So its all hited up and that is how the session started.  I figure my wife's goal going in is to get the therapist to side with her.  if that is right, I want to do what is right.  So therapist had me read my letter.  Wife I can tell acts differently around therapist.  She does not go off or get bombastic or angry.  The thing I have to say about my wife right now is that her rage is not cycling.  Her rage is literally 24/7.  She is a spinning ball of hate right now for about 10 months.  Instead of raging episodes that make no sense, she literally is calm and cool with me for about 2 hours out of a full week.  Half the rest is cold and hateful, the other half is telling me how I am a peice of hit.  She is living on pure emotion and whatever she feels at that moment and with no job, no career, a house she has destroyed, kids upset over her behavior, kids just beein teenagers, losing control over me, the emotion is nothing but bad

I tried to make sure the manifesto... sorry it really was long... 45 minutes session just got through 4 pages/half of it.  I tried to apply some skills to it all.  first page and half was just how much I love her, how I wanted her happy, how talented I think she is, and things I am proud of her about.  I did not mention things that are not pertinent today... the cheating, the drug addiction, suicide attempts... I only mentioned patterns that are still going on such as spending.  She started getting angry, but did hold it together. 

The weird part is the thing that set her over the edge is when I said that she "hates" religion and that me saying i do not go to Church now to instead take her to breakfast spend time with her to be kind was me saying I gave up religion for her.  Therapist did stop her and say it sounds like he is not saying you are preventing him from going to Church, but that he is taking out time for you.  Ultimately, it is about showing that I am sacrificing for her.  It clicked that she never appreciates me and what I do for her, but maybe its cause everything I do for her she sees as her forcing me to sacrifice for her... me trying to be a martyr.  Well, that totally means nothing I can do will be right, but interesting.

It was weird though... she literally has said she hates religion.  She denounces it all the time.  She said its a way that powerful people control the masses and that it is disgusting how intelligent people are so stupid when it comes to religion.  So I do not see how she can then say "i do not hate religion" and play all of that off.  I should state that there is a bit of I do not go to Church because of her.  When she wakes up in the morning, she wants to eat and is hungry.  She will get pissed off and pissed off fast if she does not eat.  She wants a good meal and my wife refuses to eat alone.  So going to Church means she would stay at home in bed, getting hungrier and more pissed off.  It is a guarantee that the whole day will be hell if I do when she is like that which is 95% of time.  If i do not go to Church, I am sometimes able to head it off at the pass and redirect the day.  I did that last week.  She woke up pissed.  Got her good breakfast, calmed things and had a day off where I actually enjoyed myself for the first time that I can remember in 2014.  This week skipped, Church, took her to brunch, she got pissed off over no thank you note from a relative for a Vday present she got for my niece, and everything turned into we will never work and we need divorce

It just feels alot that this is a sinking ship... I could abandon ship, leaving my children and wife behind to sink, or do I stick by them in thick and thin.  This is an illness, not cheating or anything.  Although a wife that cheated might be easier to deal with.  Even gone, I would be riddled with guilt, my heart broken...   or do I go down with the ship.  It is messed up but maybe, she will finally appreciate me if I show I was willing to give up literally my life for her... .

maybe its I do not want anyone to say I didnt give it all my best

Here is the really bad mistake I made.  The first and only relationship I have ever been in is with her... at the age of 23 i got together with her.  So I have no clue what a real relationship should be like or if she is normal... . if I am the crazy one because I have no base to compare it too.  I know my parents are both twice divorce and I certainly cannot use them as examples.  Just makes you question yourself as a result

Interesting T session with your manifesto.


Was this all your T said?

I'm proud of you for just getting a little something off your chest and out into the air.  It's up to her now to decide what to do with it.  I am hoping for your sake this is a means to an end, whatever it may be.  I can empathize with your feelings.  It's a crappy position to be in.  Sometimes I wish my girlfriend would cheat or become violent again just so I could have that concrete reason to break it off.  But as it is now, I feel like I would be abandoning someone I care deeply about at the time she needs me the most.  But then again, that is a distorted thought process on my part.  I am putting her emotional needs in front of mine.   That's okay for a short time, but not forever.  It sounds like you have the same guilt feelings about giving up.  I also have the same problem as you - this is the most serious relationship I have had.  Had I had more relationships prior to her, I think I would probably have been able to end it a long time ago.  But of my 3 semi-serious relationships prior to this one, one was abusive, one was very long distance, one was semi-long distance.  So I certainly understand that "regret" of not having more relationship experience.  

I also had a similar experience regarding the religion issue, but the angle by which she was upset is different than you describe.  I was raised catholic, but have not been to church in over a decade.  But recently, I have had the urge to go to church, either to explore my spirituality or bring some kind of closure, or just find peace again.  I mentioned this to my girlfriend that I was thinking of going to church with my mom on Christmas.  And she flipped out, and worried about it for DAYS.  I eventually didn't go (mainly because I knew she was freaked out).  She did tell me that she was worried that if I "became Christian again I would view her as a bad person and dump her."  She is Jewish (non-practicing), and commonly says negative things about Christians.  Maybe that is the real issue with your wife and religion - she thinks that if you are involved at church you will view her differently and leave her.  Just a thought.

my husband was my first real long term relationship too.  i was shy.  but you don't really need to have experience breaking up and getting back together, like other people, to know how to be good to someone, and to know that they shouldn't treat you badly.  still, i'm sure our inexperience played a part in my thinking things were my fault when they were not.

so what did the T say?  I think reading a letter is GOOD.  gives you time to think about it, not get emotional, get everything out there.  Then the ball is in her court.

too bad she fixated on one part.  but you know what?  I've found that people with BPD eventually, when they calm down, remember all of it and know the truth. 

My husband said the letter I read was "mean" when I did that. Two months later he said he knew everything in it was true.

the session had to stop before I could finish letter... it was 7 pages and did get emotional for me reading.  Talking about the letter at towards the end was a bit harder because it was more about calming down my wife who was basically saying its all lies. 

She did sit through it, but i could see her fingernails digging in.  It was hard for her and certainly an improvement just to listen.  It was hard to discuss the letter because she was so upset and fixated on religion

I do not understand my wife and religion very well.  It is a strange mix we have.  My mother was raised in a home with a Catholic mother and a Baptist father.  Basically, that was settled by taking kids to a Lutheran church.  Eventually though my grandmother who was Catholic ended up liking a Pentecostal Church.  Go figure on that one.  My mother eventually went from Lutheran to Pentecostal.  So the schism of Protestant vs Catholic in my family was handled in with my mom then.  My mother though married a Jewish man and so my father is Jewish and mother Christian.  Honestly, my parents never pushed me one way or the other.  I would consider myself more Lutheran, but I think denominations for the most part in Christianity while different all focus on what is important... . Jesus as Savior... so I do not understand why there is all the bickering over procedural stuff and some of the other disagreements.  That being said, I do find strong bonds to my Jewish heritage.  I mean Jews were God's Chosen People.  Early Christians viewed themselves as Jewish reformers or just Jews who believed the Messiah had come, not as a different religion.

that being said, I only accept what is real for me which is Christianity.  If somebody else believes in Islam, Hinduism, or anything else it is their choice.  If they want to know more about what I believe, I will tell them.  Otherwise, believe what you want.  All religions generally teach the golden rule of do unto others as you have them do unto you.  All have pretty solid social interactions.  All have people who perverse messages of peace.  So I have no expectations of anyone believing anything.  I seek out knowledge on all religions too.  I believe that testing my faith and learning others, only tempers it and makes it stronger.  (Now the test of a BPD is a test that I can honestly say exceeds all else.  why would anyone be allowed to suffer like this?)

My wife was raised as a non-practicing Christian.  Never religious per say and pretty much gained all knowledge on religions was pop culture which tends to concentrate on the faults of all religions.  Eventually, in AA she did become religious for about 6 months, wanted to go to Church.  Listened, but something happened.  She just turned a hatred for all religion.  Thinking it was just controlling.  While she did go to Church, she never studied on her own.  I think the messages can be perversed not on purpose by people, but because we are flawed.  You need to look at it your own

As a result she is not religious...   It is a shame because just from a psychological standpoint... . even fi you believed a block of wood was watching after you, it is more comforting and takes stress off you and allows more peace rather than thinking you are all alone, and meaningless.  Knowing a God that forgives would be more peaceful for somebody with BPD i would think.  I think that makes the BPD worse not having any sort of spirituality, but you cannot force faith

hurthusband -

My GF is  also active in AA/NA.  But she gets hung up over the religion thing, especially when other members talk about how they "found Jesus" and are now living good and happy lives.  I think part of her hangup is a jealous thing.  She's jealous of people who claim to be happy, and to her jealousy=anger.

I agree with you on spirituality/religion.  Even though I am not a practicing catholic anymore, I think that upbringing helped me have a positive outlook towards life and the universe.  In other words, the universe is good and people are good, just that bad things happen sometimes.  My GF is not like that.  She thinks people are out to get her, the cards are stacked against her, that most people are evil or bad, and that life stinks.  Whatever you call it, God, Gods, the universe, mother nature, the Force - she doesn't believe in anything good. 

That means, when I have a bad day, or something bad happens, I may be sad, or frustrated, or angry, but in the back of my mind is faith that the world is still good and things will work out, even though they may be tough at the moment.  If my girlfriend has a bad day, she has no foundation for which her to know that things will be okay, or can go on.  It seems her biggest fear is of the unknown future.  Whether I will stay with her or leave her.  Whether she will find a good job or stay disabled.  Whether she will have a new car or the same car.   All this stuff that is either out of her control, or things that are not practical to think or worry about in the present, because they can be handled when there is a future need.  I think if she had some kind of spiritual connection or faith that life and the world is good, much of her worry would go away.

^^^^^^^^ exactly

I mean I do not care if it is Buddhism or whatever.  Just something for her to lean on would be great.  I know alot will say "you are Christian so you know she is going to go to hell not believing or being part of a different religion".  Who am I to judge... I certainly am not capable of understanding God's plan and certainly not capable of judging who is going where.

I just do not understand how 100 things can happen in a day. some major things even.  The one thing they will hyper focus on will sometimes be something meaningless.  They will use that meaningless mistake or bad analogy to sabotage everything else you come up with.  O, and the irony of them not wanting to be invalidated, but invalidating EVERYTHING you do or say

This is really hard stuff.  You think they are turning a corner... then out of no where you can get "you really irritate me" or "i do not like to be around you"

At what point do you keep using all the tools like SET and validation and all the other things and you just stop and go do your own thing for the day or go to sleep because they just keep putting you down and basically abusing you as you are trying to help them

Hurthusband, I wish I had anything more useful to say than please take care of yourself, but that's all I can come up with. From your postings it seems you are living under very difficult conditions.

This weekend was a nightmare.  Every day is a living nightmare for me.  It is a living nightmare for my wife.  I do not know why she has not killed herself with the pain she has.  I have not said that to her, but I feel it.  It all gets heaped on me...   I try and talk to her about how this is also affecting me, how I cannot fathom the pain she is under, but I also have pain that is being heaped on me and that I have my own pain.  Begging her not to take it out on me, but she says I am selfish for saying that.  Am I not following a tool for communicating? 

Friday everything was fine... she wanted to do Bingo with family and i worked late.  I then got home to take her out to eat and she stated how she was annoyed by me.  She kept putting me down.  I kept trying to let is slide off or let her know that was a bit hurtful.  I kept trying to be cheerful.  I wore out and finally went to sleep.  She apologized later the next day

Saturday went fine all day.  We looked forward to the night...   We stopped by neighbors and she had a drink or two.  She wanted English food and a new place opened down town so we went there.  While there she hated all the food, she also said that she felt that relationships and monogomy was just something that we choose cause society says so and she was doing it cause society said so.  Not that she wanted to sleep around, but that she was tired of marriage and the life of marriage.  Of the roles of marriage.  I of course am open to changing around any roles she wants.  She says that marriage can get monotonous at times and she doesnt like it.  Basically, she felt that relationships with others and what came across as love with others and companionship would be a happier life.  This was devasting to me.  This was even worse than if she had said she wanted to sleep around.  I expressed that it did hurt to hear it, but that how she felt is how she feels and that is fair.  She then stated that "I did not feel this way until you said you did not want to have a child with me, so its your own fault".  She also said if she had to do it all over again she would not have had any of her kids.  Yes, when she was pregnant and the current and worst period of our life had begun and been going a month, I expressed that I support anything she wanted to do, and would love her and the child regardless, but maybe its not the best time.  She then let into me more.  Then we just went about like nothing happened, but I felt like my world had been shattered.  She finally wanted to go home.  when we got home and into bed, she then left the bed and went downstairs leaving me.  It really hurt, she did not want to be near me

I went down to check on her and she basically wanted me out.  I left and sat on couch.  She was crying, but I find if I usually intrude at that point she starts getting angry and she had drank.  So i stayed away. She came out and told me to go upstairs to bed.  So I went upstairs and laid in bed as she listened to music

Sunday... got up and she came back up and held me. I cried tears of joy that she cared.  she asked why I didnt check on her crying.  I explained.  I went to Church which I had been avoiding since she did not like it.  I then did the grocery shopping, trash, dishes, etc around the house while she slept.  When she got up, we watched a little television, I asked if it was already if I checked to see if my computer would run this game I like (juvenile I know, but I do like it and I hadnt done any games but 1 time this year so far) and if I could also send out invoices from my business so we could get paid.

She was a bit upset and stated that we had to be at her parents in a couple of hours and that was not much time.  I am trying to get back some of my personality and life since I really have been devoted to her outside of work, and talk to her at work all day long.  after about 20 minutes of doing work, I start to get on the game, she comes up and is angry I am on the game.  I am not sure what to do



What do you do when you try and take time for yourself and they are constantly getting angry with you and mad?  How can you enjoy something when that happens?  Do you just give in and do whatever they want?

Anyways I only was on for 20 minutes because I just wanted to test it.  I then got off, but damage was done, she was angry.  I helped her around the house and at parents.  I watched her shows and was nice.  She then wanted to go to bed at 7:30.  I handled kids and went to bed with her.  She then wanted to watch Oscars and I did, but she was cold and angry.  Saying her life was miserable

This morning, she saying our marriage is over based on Saturday.  That I am selfish and only use my spare time for myself.  I do not have much spare time cause of work which upsets her.  I do say that I cannot fathom her pain and that I understand it (she keeps saying I cannot).  When I try and talk to her about taking it out on me though, she says I am being selfish.  That therapy is hard and she is not going to change for me or anyone.  I tell her I do not want her to change, but just want her happy for herself with or without me.

She says she doesnt want to fight with me, but I am not fighting anything.  I do not want to fight.  I do not say anything about faults except when she gets angry and takes out on me and I beg her to stop. 

Is there any hope?  I feel like between what I said with the abortion and everything else, while she was BPD and in a bad spot before, that my choices have put her in a hell.  It is 24/7 rage and misery.  She has no enjoyment with me she says and she shows it.  I am scared to go home.  I only want to sleep.  This is not like the BPD before where it came unexpectedly even every week, but its every hour of every day.  She is in a hell.  I put her there and now I am going to suffer the consequences.  Do I deserve to because of my choices?  I sometimes wonder if I did kill myself and this is hell.  I just do not realize it.  Anyone I talk to about this ends up causing things to be worse. 

We both need help.  I sometimes think if she would die it would end her suffering and bring me peace.  I would never do anything.  I love her and would be heartbroken forever.  At same time, right now I feel that death is merciful for myself.  The heartache that causes for others though is not fair for me to do.

I put her in this place... how can I leave her and move on?  That is not fair... . Sometimes prison sounds like a better and safer place than this life

Please do not let her blame this on you. I am also in a similar situation and I chose before I met my BPD partner to never have children. I am sure this will cause a serious issue for me in the next couple of years as I know she wants to have another child. I know I am doing the right thing because I know she cannot see through her own illness to know that adding the stress of a third child would be too much for her. Your wife most likely knows she is not healthy enough to deal with another baby and is projecting the guilt over what happened onto you. An abortion is very difficult on even a mentally healthy person, much less someone dealing with BPD. If I remember correctly it was ultimately her decision, so stop taking all the blame for it. Please try to accept what is already done and deal with your own grief.


I have felt that complete hopelessness also and it is soul crushing. You are also not alone in this. You are not the only one who made these choices. She made them also. I know you do not feel like you can just up and leave her. I have been there also. Can you take a therapeutic separation? I know it is scary, but taking a step back could be good for both of you right now. It would give you some space to recover some of your energy and allow you to look at things more clearly. Obviously things are not working the way they are now. Try changing something. When I did I found some hope. I want you to find some also.

Hard part is where to go.

Involving anyone else and them knowing what is going on causes my SO to go into a tailspin.  She is embarrassed and overwhelmed alone with kids.  She thinks I am plotting with those I am with and everything gets worse

She has no means to support herself, and has me broke.  this feels alot like i let her crash and burn and try to save myself or I crash with her because I love her.

What a nightmare, Hurthusband. 

I see so much difficult exchanges between you and your wife. There is so much push and pull.

She is telling you she is not satisfied in the marriage - push.

She is not satisfied about your 20 minutes gaming - pull.

She wants you to get out -push.

She is asking you about her crying -pull.

And so on, and you are fully engaged into it. She can pull and push. This must be so exhausting for you.

Drinking seems an issue too. This could be something to think about too. One of my boundaries in my marriage was: I don't speak about our relationship when you had some beers.

it is hard because she has no real job, she has no friends, no nothing... so she is completely focused on sitting in the house and thinking about what she wants or doesnt have or our problems.

The whole thing with the abortion she is stuck on too.  She says I have moved on and she is still stuck with it.  I keep telling her i still feel over it, but... i cannot change it... i am just trying to help you

yea... i am just exhausted.  She can pick my mistakes so easily and magnify them... .   me hurting is not allowed.  She hates me and wants me to herself at the same time...   There is sucha  mess or problems too that we cannot get away from them

I really think a job would do her so well.  I mean she works some, but a steady job.  She wants one, but it has to be perfect and BPD isnt something you can just force to work.  She explodes when that happens

Last time she had to get a job, and she hated it... she attempted suicide

You said 2-3 times that you put her in this position.  By doing what?  Taking a mere 20 minutes out of an entire weekend to do something peaceful that you enjoy?  By not saying the exACT right thing every second?  By walking on eggshells 23.9 hours of every day and slipping up one tenth of an hour?  By saying you'd support her whatever she decided with the child?  Whatever choices you make, she has a problem with.  I know that we all sit there saying "If only I hadn't done or said such and such... . " but whenever you do exactly what she wants, it still ends up miserable.

If you had had the child, you might both be fighting over custody, or she might be alienating the child from you, or the child might be miserable... . you only know what happened, not what could have happened.  

I read and reread your description of the weekend and I really can't see one thing you did wrong.  I know you love her.  I know it breaks your heart that she's in such pain.  That doesn't mean it's okay for you to be treated that way.  It seems that no matter what you do, it doesn't work.  The times she apologizes, or comes and holds you, bring such relief and hope, I know - and then it falls to pieces again when she switches personalities and you get that sinking feeling that it's out of your hands.  I've been there.

I forget - have you been able to talk with her therapist?  Have you told him all these things?  Maybe you should tell him that you are both going to end up apart and miserable unless something changes.  :)oes he have an idea of why it's getting worse for your wife?  Is she on new medication?  Sometimes meds make things worse, not better.

It is sad for you because it seems like there's so little you can do, except try not to give her any ammo.  And you know there is love there, somewhere, but a cruel disease is taking over.  But there becomes a point where you've tiptoed so much it's hard to keep your balance.

Have you looked up therapeutic separation on this website?  It's an idea.  Although it may just make you look like the bad guy if you suggest it, and she may just leave.  Soo I don't know.  It seems like if you weren't in each other's hair, you'd both appreciate the time you are together.  But that could also give her time to leave.

Take some comfort and know that she is your wife.  No matter what happens, you are doing and have done your best.  :)on't fall into the trap of thinking some thing you said or did was what caused the problem.  There would always be something.  This has to resolve somehow - and it will be a relief when it does.  Maybe it will resolve with her realizing she really has to change.  Maybe some other way.  Just hang in there.  Keep posting.

Yes, we went last week together.  I had a sort of manifesto.  Yesterday, I was getting off work a little early and was going to get new tires for my car cause they are pretty bad shape.  She wanted to go to a movie so I said ok and then she didnt want to drive there so I said I would skip tires and pick her up.  When I got there, she did not want to go.  I was supposed to be off at 3 pm and contact her.  She texted at 3:15pm but could not get out because I was being told about a friend who was just diagnosed with cancer.  I called her near 4.  She said she waited too long and crashed when I got home.  We still had an hour until movie, but too late

Then was more of why we cannot work.  Why I am messed up.  How her therapist tells her my mother is a narcisstic personality and I cannot work with her.  How our life is over... she cannot get over the abortion.  Some things I never said... how she is going to just stay for the kids, and distance herself until she does not love me anymore.  She said she felt I lying to her about all sorts of stuff and conspiring.  I was sharing details about us and she cannot trust me.  I kept saying I was not lying and that I feel like I am going insane... I just need to talk to help me stay stable

I snapped.  I said, "maybe your feelings are wrong"  Immediately followed by "i am sorry.  That is wrong.  What you feel is always acceptable"  Too late... she said "the therapist you picked out would disagree.  You are out of line" she then used that against me rest of the night... woke me up at 5 am to berate me more over it.

I just wanted her to kill me rather than say the things she did... . I begged her to kill me.  I prayed to God for an aenurysm.  I explained I cannot handle the guilt... she said i know nothing of guilt. 

I see the pain she feels, I hear what she says.  I must be doing something wrong I do not understand.  I must be crazy in some way.  I must not see reality in some way for her to feel so much as she does and to hear the therapist say what she does.  I do not see anything I can do more... she does not see anything she can do more.  I explained that every part of my life is running smoothly except with her, and she is most important. 

I see no way out.  Divorce destroys the kids, she has no ability to support herself.  Our house is half destroyed by remodels which she says she undertook and cannot handle.  I am far in debt over it all.  If we stay it feels inevitable that bankruptcy and everything else happens.  I can leave her... I can be ruthless, and the kids get hurt, she gets hurt more.  My heart is still ripped out.  She may do things to hurt me still

The thought of having to make it through this day... working all this time, and knowing it makes no difference... its intolerable.  I just want to sleep.  My nightmares are better places than my reality

I must be conveying things wrongly here.  I must be skewing things against her.

I never thought this feeling was possible...

Again you are taking the blame for things that are not your fault.  Please, please realize this:  It is not normal for her to take one thing you said or did and use it to hurt you or use it against you for literally hours.  She does and says hurtful things a thousand times and you would never do that to her.

If you had had the baby she would have had lots of other things to use against you.  And you didn't force her to have the ab.

You say you see no way out.  That worries me.  She is having a meltdown and taking you down too.  I know you don't want her to leave.  I know you love her.  But you cannot stop her illness.  Keeping your mouth shut, being on time, saying all the right things cannot stop her illness.  It may stop your guilt for a while, but can you really go through life not caring about a friend's cancer, not talking to your parents, adjusting every aspect of your life and personality to make sure she is not triggered in any minor way?

What she is doing is exactly what BPD does.  It is not you.

I did see when you wrote about the therapist visit.  I guess I wonder if you could email the therapist privately with what is going on and how you see no way out.

You are allowed to say something and have it come out wrong and take it back.  That's what normal people DO.  You are allowed to get frustrated.  Except in her world; in her world, you are not allowed.  Everyone on this board, and there are hundreds of us, has experienced these same things with our partner.  It is not you.  It's BPD.  Even if you're not perfect, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO NOT BE PERFECT.

In normal relationships, people forget anniversaries, are late, even call each other terrible names during a fight, and it's forgiven.

You bend over backwards, and if you do something like hear about a friend's cancer, you become the bad guy.

I can't tell you how many things were held against me in my marriage.  I was shy and still stuck it out and thought maybe I was being selfish.  Eventually it all came to a head and the police came.  You don't have kids with her, so the stakes aren't as high, but you do care about her kids.  I understand that. 

I wonder if the only answer is to be honest with the people involved.  Even talk to the kid(s).  Only problem is, yes, if you get divorced, you don't have rights to them.  And by sending a letter to her therapist or talking to him, you potentially betray her.  I get it.  I was there.  I kept silent until everything exploded.  Now my ex wants to come back but it would take years of counseling for both of us to get to that point - but there was some domestic violence involved so it's a bit diff.

Here's an idea - you are seeing a T, right?  Show him your last post.  He should be telling you what a normal person does and responses from their partner - her responses to you are not normal and not fair.  Can your therapist talk to her therapist?  If you ask him to, is there a possibility? 

I just went to my therapist.  She called me mad before I even went in.  I had to walk out.  I had to explain that I was at the doctor and she knew it cause I told her 4 times already.  She might have forgotten, but he always gets mad at me for forgetting

I went in and he told me the same sort of things.  I felt better and when I got out my wife called.  I talked and she wanted to make arrangements for us to divorce.  She then said that she will have to cancel her trip cause she cant let the kids stay with me for 10 days.  I said 2 responses

a. we have $200 to our name.  I am not paying back your parents for something they never consulted me on, something you are choosing not to do, and you are divorcing me

b. you would take that from the kids being that the oldest was looking forward to time with me

of course she took B as meaning i was slighting her.  I did nto mean it that way.  She just tells me she hates being around me and I am the reason we failed... on and on...

She wants terms for a divorce for mutual absolvement.  I tell her she can have the car and I will pay it off, she can stay in the house if she wants, but she is responsible for bills, I tell her I want visitation with the kids and I will give 20% of my income to her or about $1200.

She calls and first things he says is "how am i supposed to live on $1200 a month".  I lost it, i told her, she can do what everyone else does and I have done... get a job.  What does she want?  She honestly thing I should leave, give up everything, and continue to support her completely?

I have NOTHING TO MY NAME! I have not purchased ANYTHING for myself in 9 months when i got myself a pair of shoes cause I needed replacement.  EVERYTHING I make goes to supporting her

What am i supposed to do?

She then says I will never get any right to any of her kids and I cannot see them at all.  She rather take nothing than that

I do not know what to do.  She wants me gone, she wants me there, she wants everything I have and am... She has not had an actual job in 7 years!  She has a degree and does not use it!  Everything I have i put towards her

I spent 2 hours instead of working on talking with her on the phone!  What other company would allow that?  My mother allowed it being her's, but she is evil in my wife's eyes.

She is done for.  She hates the life she has, she hates life in every way.  What do i do?

She tells me not to hang up on her then does it to me multiple times. 

Hurthusband

please do yourself a favor and don't discuss details about divorce with her without being informed about your laws before. Keep working instead of talking. She is very deregulated, you cannot stop this right now.

In my eyes your whole life is completely dominated by her drama, it is really tough.

Good you could see your T. How does it went? What is his approach on your situation?

He said she is ill and that I am a good person and from his perspective doing all I can.  That I should not buy into what she is saying about me.

She is just texting and calling all day. telling me how she does not love me, how she wishes she had looked the other way when she saw me.  How I make her sick. that i am a liar and a fraud. that i never cared

I feel horrible for her.  I feel guilty.  I worry about what she will do to hurt me further... . I worry about saying things that will hurt her

Hurthusband,

Surnia got an important point and speaks from experience.



I totally get that. I've been there. I remember going to with w to doctor. Before doctor she was suicidal. I was there when she saw doctor - she was semi level. We left and she wanted to head straight to the pharmacy to buy sleeping pills to kill herself. I spent $1000 on stuff she did not really need to distract her and get her to eat dinner during which I had to deal with suicidal talk. This was by no means sustainable for me financially. I could not help myself - for some time money was a tool to provide short term fixes but the situation spiraled out of control!

This is stoppable! Today I discussed with w that maybe I will earn less in the future and thus she needs to spend less if I decide to focus more on work I prefer. This is a world apart.

You are earning the money for the so getting some more control is entirely in your reach. She won't like it but she is perfectly able to adjust. She just won't agree to it and discussing it with her right now is not a good idea before you have an executable plan. What you need is somehow establishing boundaries - limits that are under your control. You mentioned $1200 - is it somehow possible to limit her access to just that, maybe in weekly installments with one initial lump sum for "emergencies"?

Hang in there

Hurthusband:

I have long gone from this forum because of differences in opinions about the board, but reading your note making me send you some thoughts for help:

1. First BPD will confuse you to the max so that they can CONTROL you. Essentially, they are dumping their inner pain and struggles onto you or anyone they are involved with.

2. To survive you have to go back to your CORE VALUES. Find or define your core values about life, about living, about happiness and about being a family. For example, my core values are "Living a life with less stress", "lead a simple life, but not simpler".  

3. Life and relationships consist mostly from negotiations of gives and takes.

4. Never negotiate from a fear position

5. Look at the worse scenario, and once you accept that then you have no fear any more.

6. Reexamine the definition of love. To me, love is let those you love be themselves and try not to mold them into your own images. BPD tries to mold (control) you into the person they can dominate and you, becoming unhappy, because you are trying to mold BPD into that perfect spouse of your dream.

The lesson learned is not trying to change others or being changed by others, but to live and let live. Your happiness is YOURS to make, not hers to give and Her happiness is not yours to give. If your happiness is not there because of who she is or her happiness is not there because of who you are, then it would make sense to simply say, "Thank you and move on", instead of trying to change each others. Don't try to force a round peg into a square hole because in the end both will be damaged.

BPD will threaten you with this or that, but you have to rely on your core values to stand up right and not back down.

Don't worry about how she will survive and live without you. Why? We are today as the accumulation of everything we have done up to today. SO where she is today is really the accumulation of her past actions, not YOUR ACTIONS nor your FAULTS.

I left BPD 6 years ago after lots of push/pull and confusion. my life is wonderful now as I have found a woman who just let me be who I am and I let her be who she is.

Remember, your happiness is YOURS to make .

she called to make more arrangements... terms for surrender i would call them... how she will be happy with somebody else.

somebody at worked asked for me while on the phone... i snapped nasty at them about being on the phone and hold on...

she realized i think the jeopardy she putting me in at my job... hung up called back crying apologizing for damaging my job.  still that we are done... . but apologizing

She has no clue what is in store for her as far as life when I leave.  She is used to eating out every night not eating at just chain restaurants, but nicer places.  She has no income, no job, no insurance, no friends, no family... she has family but when I have told them about suicide attempts or that she wanted us to have a suicide pact, they DID NOTHING... they did not even see if she was okay

She cannot handle people at all right now.  She cannot deal with the kids right now...

if I leave, there is a good chance something very bad might happen.  Might happen to her or the kids.  There is a chance she will do somethinga nd be angry and vengeful and do something very bad to me or people I care about

this is quite intense.  I certainly feel for you right now, and can empathize with what you are going through, although this is a level to which I have not experienced yet.  And I feel for her, too - it sounds like she has nothing at all to hold onto.  And for you to be in a situation to have to deal with that has to be crippling. 

The suicide thing and the fear she may do something serious is real, and real scary.  I still live in fear that if my girlfriend and I broke up, she is 90% likely to attempt suicide or start taking drugs again.  I can't live with that fear.  My friends, my online support, and my T all tell me over and over that if she does want to hurt herself, she will do that anyway no matter what I do, and whatever she does is not my fault.  I can rationally agree, but emotionally?  It's just so very hard to detach. 

Please, try and find some kind of space for yourself today.  Turn off your phone, go see a movie, go to church, anything.  Those moments I have found for myself the last few months have been real lifesavers.

Hurthusband,


in these angry exchanges emotions on both sides bounce back on each other and get amplified. You can not control her emotions but you have some control over yours. She is dysregulated and will be saying and maybe even doing stuff that makes no sense and will be regretted later. Do not react too much, too extreme or too often. Displaying some anger on your side is perfectly ok and even expected - nobody stays calm in these situations. But avoid overreacting! She has not infinite energy to keep this going. You strategy has take a slightly longer view so save your energy and get your side cooled down. Maxsterling has given some ideas - consider taking them up.

Yea... im not allowed in house... so just sitting in office now...

I am sure I must be getting a bit annoying.  I mean I hear what everyone is saying, and I know rationally she seems wrong, but like MasterSterling said... I still FEEL responsible to a degree.  To a large degree.  I feel incredible guilt.

Right now I am so distraught over the relationship I cannot even really face the reality that even if we do get back together, the situation I am in with her has my life decimated and after today, even my family is talking about maybe its time for me to quit my job because I am a hindrance

I suppose I am a bit angry.  At this point, I have literally allowed her to destroy every relationship I have, my finances, my family ties, myself worth, and now my future/job/business.  I have nothing left to give, but she still thinks I have done nothing for her and I am horrible.

At same time, I am not angry at her.  I miss her.  I miss my family.  I never asked for any of this and I never did anything in a selfish way.  She thinks I hate her and want to leave her because of the pain I said she caused me... it is almost like she is confusing her own shame with my hate.  Or that her feeling shame means I hurt her and am mean

I could get a lawyer, force the divorce... and move on.  I just do not want to.  I do not have the will.  I honestly wish I had the option of simply giving my life and curing her and being done with this all.  I am just tired. I never imagined a relationship could be this way.  I honestly never want to be in another if this one fails.  Not just because my heart is broken, but I never want to take a chance of hurting like this again.

I remember being alone... Being sad and going to sleep.  Spent years doing that.  I thought that was bad, it was easy.  Sadly, she thinks I do not hurt or feel anything.  Talking about hurting just makes her act like its a competition and she goes into how I know nothing of hurt... . I don't know anymore

I am glad that you are realizing you didn't cause this and it's not your fault.

Don't give up your job.  You'd be surprised how understanding people are when you tell them what's been happening.  (Esp. your family).

Do you think there is a real chance she could hurt the kids?  People who talk of suicide tend to lose custody.  Even though you may not think you have rights, it is possible (I don't know the law where you are) that you could get some rights to help be their guardians or something if they're not safe with her.  On the other hand, that would of course hurt her emotionally... . you are in a tough position because you don't want to hurt her, I know.

Maybe Google some lawyers in the area who have a psych background.  There are a few around.  Of course, if you have $200 to your name, you may need to get some free first consultations.  There's always avvo.com too if you can stay anonymous - you can post for free and find out what to do about her kids etc.

The things she says about you and accuses you of are really things she thinks of herself.  It makes her feel better to blame you.  Part of the illness.

You are a good person.  :)on't worry about future relationships.  Just be strong and firm, try to set boundaries.  This is an awful time you are going though, but it won't be this way forever.  You just have to get through it, one way or another.

You are in a bind, because things taht some people might do (restraining orders, lawyer letters etc.) to stop her from harassing you at work, are things you'd perceive as hurting or alienating her from you.  I understand that.  You may just have to keep walking through this until the solution presents itself.  You are getting closer I think.

If you don't have the energy to file for divorce, don't.  Let her do it if she wants to.

Where are you sleeping tonight?  Wherever it is, look up at the stars and know they are shining on you no matter how bad things are, and things can only get better.

Hi HH

For me you are not annoying - I have some deep concerns about your situation however. There is so much negative talking / thinking in your life. All the blaming and insults of your wife and your thoughts on yourself too.

I would like to underline the words of your T:


The 3 Cs: You didn't cause it, you cannot cure it, you cannot control it, the behavior of your wife.

What you can control is your side. Making a good job, thinking about cut her expenses and so on. Each step counts, HH! 

HH, how are you this morning?  Did you get any sleep?

bit out of it.  Havent eaten in a few days... slept on the floor of office in a sleeping bag.  family is getting fed up with it all... jeapordizing their livelihoods too.  Getting to point where I either do away with her or I am out of a job

she apologized this morning for harm done to job.  said she has a good amount of work.  time away maybe good and may heal things.  of course, it could also be that, time away and no wounds healing... more damage done, and i am stuck sleeping on the floor of an office paying everything for her to stay in a house.

Not sure if I mentioned but she not wanting to go on trip with her parents to Europe to begin with and now she so depressed she going to cancel.  Of course, that means paying them back for a trip that

a. they didnt consult me on at all before they booked it, made me pay half AFTER they booked it, and left me with kids

b. she doesnt trust me to watch kids now.  I think her real fear is i will manipulate them against her since she already thinks the oldest thinks she is crazy

she says she not going back to therapy neither, probably cause i encouraged it so much... i guess she also figures without me she cannot afford it.  Maybe I still pay it... i dont know

Any chance she will change her mind and go on the trip?  Maybe her parents can convince her to take a break?

Now she has manipulated you into probably paying for the therapist.  She is getting away with everything she can.  What kind of silly business is it for her family to book a trip and tell you to pay half?  You really shouldn't, but you know that.  It's easier to just do what she says; I realize that.  Eventually, though, it ends up with you broke.

Glad she apologized, but she keeps having these moments of clarity and then going back to her old ways, typical of BPD.  Is there a way to put some kind of a wall between you and her at work - turn off the ringer on your phone and only pick up if you see another number?  I don't know.  My life at work greatly improved when I turned off the text alert noise, so when my H was texting me I didn't know it. 

You need to set boundaries, I think, although like everything else, there is the risk of her blaming you. 

You could always pay for a few therapy sessions, just because you need that for yourself right now. 

Hang in there.  You are doing more than anyone in their right mind can do.  I don't know you so all I can do is offer a ((hug)).

I hope she takes the trip.  You should ask for your money back if she DOESN'T go, not have to pay for it. 

Yea... she graduated college and then her parents to both our surprise say "guess what, for graduation we got you a ticket to go WITH US and your sister on a European tour.  Now you will have to pay the airfare though.  also its going to be the week after Spring break for the kids"

a. my wife hates doing crap with her parents.  Their invalidating and angry behavior contributed to her being how she is

b. way to let me know on things.  I mean I guess they just assumed i could make arrangements to handle kids at drop of a hat.  Also thanks for asking me if i could go.  Also, thanks for asking me if we could afford it.  I mean they know I spent $25k on her therapy last year and tens of thousands on her home remodel. 

Just last week we are sitting in my kids Boy Scouts crap.  The kids are not that enthusiastic about it, but her father LOVES IT.  I am sitting there with him and one of the boy's father.  Suddenly he gives me a bill for a few hundred bucks for scouts and says "here you go, I paid half, but here is other half" did he even ask the biological father?  nope.  did bio dad hear? yup. did bio dad offer help? nope.  Has bio dad made a raise in past 10 years and get an increase on his child support?  he is a unionized worker who just got a mechanics license.  you know he did.  I mean based on union rules his pay has doubled, but nope... I can just support his kid.

o yea, apparantly graddad signed up kids for some trip to Maine or something that is a few grand.  never even asked us as parents.  Wonder how that is getting paid for...

That is ridiculous.  Well, don't pay that! 

Hang in there.  Sleeping at the office tonight?  Hope you get to rest.

Hurthusband:

Allow me to throw in another perspective.

1. You should be elated, not depressed. Why -- Because you will soon be free. Free from all those negativism, from being the doormat to her, to her parents. The future might unknown and thus scary, but embrace the uncertainty of the new future, my friend. How many people on this board have expressed the pain they suffer from YEARS and YEARS  of abuse and unhappiness? A lot, I might say. They cannot find the way out because they are stuck by the push and pull of BPD and most of all by the fear of the unknown future ( like you).

2. Remember, you are abused not because there are abusers out there, but because YOU LET THEM ABUSE YOU. You have to stand up for your happiness otherwise you will bury the next 40 or 50 years of your life in sorrow and regrets. One day, on your death bed you will wonder what have happened to all those lost years? Surely, ask yourself how do you want people describe you on  your tombstone - A man of courage, a man of integrity, or a man who was depressed and was a doormat ?.

3. I know how you feel about the unknown future. One day 8 years ago, I lost my wife of 22 years to a tragic accident who left me w 3 young children. Talking about a nuclear bomb that all of a sudden destroyed everything I worked or hoped for. Instead of letting the grief burying me, I decided to LIVE and LIVE FULLY. Then I ran into XBPD, who within 4 weeks caused me to seek psychological help because of all the craziness. It took me almost 4 weeks of meditating and listening to the inner voice about BPD, then I mustered enough courage to look her in the eyes and said , "GOOD BYE".

Guess what, that was the best word I have said in all my life.

By letting her go, I found my now wife who is what the xBPD was NOT. So, my friend, don't be afraid of the unknown future. God has a lots of good things for you in the days ahead. You have to empty your cup so the new fresh tea can be poured in.

I went back home again last night... I know that might have not been the best decision, just starting cycle over again...

Talked some about her actually moving in with her friend for a bit.  She hates the house anyways.  That might work

all and all, even though I keep moving through this cycle, I feel myself getting closer to finally just giving up and putting a stop to it.  I suppose that one way or another, I am getting closer to ending it, she is getting closer to ending it, or things will somehow get better.  There seems to be some end coming, I am just not sure what.  I suppose an end is better than the grind of it all. 

I have to give her some credit though.  This week she really ramped up some of the work she has been doing.  She has had a cleaning business all through college and now that she has her Art degree and seems to be unwilling to do anything with it, at least she just took on a ton of clients from somebody she trained who injured themselves.  Pretty much full time, and its around $900 a week so its decent pay that can help.  Being occupied I think is good for her...

Who knows... if can make to her trip... thats 10 days gone... that might be good too

Something is going to be forced decision wise though.  I guess that is good even if I am crawling towards it

Hi hurthusband,

I really feel for you, this is a deep crisis for you and your family  , so forgive me some straight talk.


You made a decision! You reap the consequences - whether good or bad. Good decision reap good consequences and you are happy. Bad decisions reap bad consequences and you suffer. But daring to make a decision and doubting it immediately - what are you getting out of this? You can be proud of yourself! Nobody can tell you what to do - choices simply lead to different outcomes and you have to deal with them - good or bad - and move on to the next choice. Learning by doing - you are changing course - there is a lot to learn - new behavioral choices - new mistakes - new successes! Believe in yourself - we believe in you

This is not a trivial matter! You and your family have been suffering from emotional abuse for some time and in such a case second-guessing will become your modus operandi. To move away from that you have to re-align you actions with your believes. Choices are neither good nor bad they are choices. There will be alway an upside you reap and a downside you pay. Not making a choice or making a choice "others (whoever)" expect is also making a choice. There is no getting away from it. But if you are acting in line with your believes then there is an additional upside that you will feel more whole and your self esteem grows over time.

A lot of us co-dependent folks tend to avoid choices we own. We prefer coming to commonly discussed and agreed solutions. Often this is the best. However you are stuck in a conflict, communication lines are clogged and attempts to discuss are taken as a pretext to attack you. You have little choice but to act unilateral. This may be uncomfortable but it is not wrong - it is just a different way doing things that need to be done. You decided to stay at work and that took guts. As a result the situation is better. You own that all  |iiii


Ok, she is not mad at you but now it is the house. The problem is between her ears.


Yeah, when you were away she seemed to be able to calm down more. This is normal and consistent enforcement of boundaries can help on that front. Check out this currently ongoing story on the staying board where another member did a short break as the situation became unbearable: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=220903.0 . It is somewhat similar to yours.


You are quite stressed by the last days. You have kids that need taking care of. You are just learning to understand your situation better - your situation, your wifes situation and the influence of her parents on both of you. You are just starting to exploring your options. One option clearly is deciding for separation - that needs planing. Another option is deciding to stop allowing abuse - a first step taken but more are needed - may lead to separation or continuation.

If you feel level headed enough to make a decision for a divorce - do it.

If not please continue asking yourself this question - what path should I take here on undecided but also start posting on the staying board- as you will be staying de-facto and need support on that front as well. Posting on staying is not a commitment to staying but a commitment to learn to do better while staying.

Hurt Husband, I read something you wrote on another board about your son, and responded there, but I want to make sure you see the post.  I am wondering if you are in a situation in which you DO have some rights to him.  There are common law issues about those sorts of things. 

You wrote:

"I have been in this child's life since he was 1.  I am who he knows as his father.  He knows i am not biological, but he loves me as his dad.  he cut his arms when I left last time cause he missed me... I feel horrible about that."

Courts care about what's in the best interest of the child.  To take away someone he calls Daddy and has known since he was 1, and the only stable parent, would be cruel.  It's already hurting him emotionally.  Also, if you agree to give child support for a child you are not allowed to see or have a hand in raising anymore, you give up your leverage.  You should tell your wife you can give child support if you have some visitation.  Act as if you have that right.  Obviously this child needs you.  I wonder if there is something like common law custody if you have been in this child's life for a while. 

If you talk to a few lawyers (not just inexperienced onces), you may find precedents to support you.  You can even post the question on avvo.com for free.

I suppose for now I need to post in the staying rather than here.  Sorry

  I will need to speak with lawyer on the custody.  From all the legal sites in Texas I have read, and lawyer sites... its is close to impossible to get any sort of custody unless the child was in your sole custody for 6 months or more or the child is in actual danger.  Although, the danger one does not mean that the step parent gets custody, could be grandparents or somebody else

I cannot honestly say I feel the child is in danger

That really is a shame.  Well, if he's cutting himself, he has some sort of emotional danger... . I had another thought... . if you and your wife end up doing a settlement, you can still ask for some visitation.  You may not be entitled by law, but she may do it if she wants a break, wants you to pay child support, or something else.  Just something to think about.  If you have no rights to him, you also owe $0.00 in child support.  If she wants the money, she is going to have to give you some visitation.

Glad you are staying, but if you do leave, just be aware of this. 

Staying is about like saying standing on quicksand...   I mean last night she wanted a divorce again, quitting therapy, etc... then apologized to me this morning.  I really do not like her actualy psychiatrist.  She has a psychiatrist and a psychologist she goes to.  The psychologist is treating her for BPD while the psychiatrist basically prescribed her meds and lots of them... .

80 mg of Vyvanse a day, adderoll to use also during day, and ambien for sleep...

I am sorry... that is a ton of stimulants and giving to a BPD just seems ridiculous, but what do you do. She has an MD and I have nothing.  I cannot really say I am more qualified.  Last night she was all on ambien when she said those things.

Her doctor said I need to stand up more and make boundaries.  so when she said, she is not going to share custody i told her "then I will not pay child support"

I seriously think though that alot of this is from the meds.  Before she was on the stimulants she was still a bit erratic, but it was faarrrr better and not angry like it is now

O, and she went to see the gyno today and was told she has a lump.  Off to get a mamogram now

When it rains it pours

Lumps usually turn out to be nothing.

Maybe the meds are making her worse, if she was better 2 years ago.  I know you are trying to do everything you can to hold out and see if she will recover.  You love her.  It's ok.  Just don't put yourself in a bad situation, and prepare for the worst.  Hope for the best.

If these meds are not helping, maybe she just shouldn't be on them.  Or should be on diff ones.  Maybe you can suggest to her therapist, without offending him, that she has changed a lot in 2 years and you think maybe her medication is making it worse.  They don't see what you see, and they should know this.  They only see her every week or two.  You could email both of her docs at the same time.

I have told her this and told her psychologist about it.  She does not want me communicating with her doctors.  Woke me again at 3:45 am to ask if we are going to make it then say everything is a mess and she doesnt see how.  She wants a plan on how we can improve things.  I tell her its hard to make a long term plan when I know nothing of her future and what she wants to do.  She says she cannot determine what she wants to do with her life unless she knows what my future is.

I have built a small business, I have close to a 6 figure job.  Its not great, the hours are long... 6 days a week 10 hours most days...  She says she feels alone, she says she needs help.  I understand where she is coming from.  I just do not know what else or more I can do.  I cannot see a way to make more money... . if I stay in my career and also my family business I will eventually inherit it.  Its a guaranteed $250k+ a year.  I just do not know for sure when.  If I leave, I do not know what might happen.  

I do not know how to make more money so she can do what she wants, have more time off, etc.

at same time, my wife is very good at destroying boundaries.  For instance, doctor told me that next time she demands I leave for the night, I just refuse.

I did this the other night, and she then said "if you do not leave, I am going to leave with the kids and you will never see nor hear from us again until court"

I feel like I am at that point in the movie where the partner of somebody is dying... they are injured and in bad shape.  The other person knows there is not much hope and not much they can do and that trying to get them out will probably end up with them dead too, but the guilt and pressure of abandoning them and not taking the chance weighs on them...

I know what happens without me.  My wife cannot earn the money she needs, she has no mental support left, she cannot get the mental help then cause she cannot afford it.  I do not see how it does not end up in suicide... .

all cause i tried to save myself...  and I know she is right to a degree.  a relationship even if one has BPD is two sided and each contributes.  I just cannot tell what I am doing wrong and what is the BPD making unreasonable demands

HA!  I got the same thing last night as she was laying in bed. Her: "What is going to happen to me?"  Me:  "Whatever you want to happen to you." 

She does this constantly, and it's very telling about the core of this illness.  A pwBPD HAS NO INTERNAL IDENTITY.  Myself and probably most humans recognize that they have a role in shaping their own future, and that if we want something or need something there are actions we can take to try and achieve that.  My GF, on the other hand, thinks that what happens to her is all up to other people, society, the universe, whatever.  She may ask, "will I always be poor?"  Well, most people know there are things they can do to change that, such as getting a job.  Not her.


My GF says I saved her life.  She says she would be on the street without me.  And I have little doubt, very bad things would happen if I just told her tonight, "I am no longer happy in this relationship, I think we should break up."  I would expect cutting, suicide attempt, or drug use.  I'm 99% certain of that.  And while there are many reasons I haven't proposed marriage to her, a very real reason is what you mentioned above.  I'm worried that if we got married she will lose her social services, and should the marriage not last, that's one less thing she can fall back on.  As of now, she is getting mental health services, disability money, and Medicaid.  That's at least some means she has of taking care of herself.  If we were married, it's all on me. 

HH

yes, boundaries - some of our SOs are really boundary challenging. I think this is one of the most important things when you are decided to stay. Working on boundaries. My guess is that your wife is good in speaking about consequences, not sure if action will follow.

Anyway - work on boundaries. Many of us are or were struggling with it. Its something we can learn.

Hang in there, HH.

my wife is quite determined.  She sets her mind to something and she does follow through

she had a professor in school who was her mentor and friend. He was a bit of a jerk.  He was up for tenure and was supposedly not letting her move on because he wanted free work.  She ended up costing him his tenure.  I am not exactly sure if it was all his fault or if she went off on him, but my wife will go down in flames when she goes down.  She is spectacularly gifted and particularly good at getting her way no matter what the cost... .   not just with me but with everyone

She has made threats about saying things to get me thrown in jail and denying other things I have covered up for her to protect her from jail.  She has threatened to do things to harm the careers of those I care about just to get at me

The problem is the threats bear such consequences it is not worth the risk.  She is not one to be trifled with. 

Her own therapist told her once that she felt a bit overpowered by her and fearful while I was sitting there.  She would make a fantastic leader if she was not hindered by anger, rage, and the inability to empathize with anyone.  She has incredible compassion and sympathy, for those hurt, but she cannot see things from others viewpoint

Your therapist should be helping you to realize you are probably not doing anything wrong.

You are not a miracle worker who can know exactly how to tiptoe exactly right so as not to offend her.   You are doing such a good job and still she is upset half the time.

"I did this the other night, and she then said "if you do not leave, I am going to leave with the kids and you will never see nor hear from us again until court"

Well, that's part of the problem.  She is making threats and one day they may come true.  It's common with BPD, but how long can you live controlled by threats?

That said, you love her and the kids and you are trying your best to make sure things stay together.  I just wish there was some way to cure her.  I know you wish that too.

Just do not give up the job.  You NEED this job.  It's your one ounce of security, and the thing that may save you some day, may give you the money you need to defend herself if she ever makes a false accusation or anthing else.

You really should get a tape recorder just in case.

therapist really hammers home that I am not at fault and so does her therapist when we go as a couple...

I just cannot get it through my head, much I guess the same way she cannot get through her head some of the things the therapist says.

I am guessing overtime it slowly creeps in and sticks or just suddenly hits, but its not there yet