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Hey Leaving Board!

Detaching is hard work!  There are a lot of different people here all processing on this board in different places.  Sometimes we can get caught up in where another person is - especially in this emotionally vulnerable time.

That said:

Where are you in detaching and what does that phase look like for you?

Look to the right - there are 5 Stages of Detachment:

1.  Acknowledgment

2.  Self-Inquiry

3.  Processing

4.  Creative Action

5.  Freedom

I flowed between the first 3 for a long time... . for me, those were directly tied to grief and depression.

So - where are you?  What makes you think that is where you are today?

Peace,

SB

Great question, SB.  Been NC since Dec 10th.  I am trying to get free of myself.  I am learning I am my own worst enemy.  The more I try and control some aspect of my life, the more I try to press my will onto something or someone, the more futile, chaotic my own life becomes.

I am trying to get out of my own damn way, SB.

Great question

Hey Arn,

Based on the tools to the right - where do you put yourself?

From what you said, it sounds like you are solidly coming to terms with acknowledging your own feelings, "getting out of your own way".

What do you think?

SB

I think I am definitely in the stage 2 process, where I am coming to terms on how I feel, how I want to feel, and what actions are necessary daily, for me to forge ahead and feel that way.  Also, coming to terms with being okay with feeling the way I feel. 

I no longer want to hate my son's mother.  i don't want to hate anyone for that matter.  Being trapped in this anger stage has helped me see it's been doing no good for me.

Therefore, I need to set out on a course of action to move in that direction of love, compassion, and understanding... . to everyone. Including my son's mother

Hi SB,

That's a good question... .

I think I am past the acknowledgment stage most definitely.  I am probably in stages 2,3 and 4. I am venturing into 3 and 4 but also hanging around in 2 quite a lot.

I felt very angry for a while too Arn, but I mostly felt scared and anxious.  I do know that when I felt angry it helped me to make that decision to leave.  I think anger in that situation can be useful and give you the strength you need to make changes.  It's a survival tool.  It probably isn't a good thing though to get stuck there because anger will consume you if you let it and can turn into obsession, resentment and hate - none of which are good for you.

This week has been important though.  My ex was contacting me by text quite a lot and I was responding until he began to unravel and then detaching from him.  

I was conscious that this was something I needed to do to help me process the intense feelings I had, but also that it was upsetting and unsettling me and happening at times that I couldn't control.  He would keep it up all evening and leave me exhausted and demoralised.  

I told him a couple of days ago that he should forget about me and concentrate on getting well.  He replied with 'ok' and has been relatively quiet since.    Feels peaceful and I am happier.

I did a huge thing for me last night.  I have moved to a tiny village in an isolated spot and last night I went to a local pub on my own.  The woman in the village shop invited me to join them in the quiz night so I went!  When I got there the pub was full but she and her party weren't there.  However, the landlady knew I was coming and sat me at a table to wait.  They arrived and were lovely, I made friends and had food and drinks and we won the quiz!  

Creative action = Freedom!

This was momentous for me and something I could not have done before!  What's happening to me?  Whatever it is it feels good.

Janey xx

That sounds really positive Arn, and will take you in the right direction. 

Good for you.  It will be hard sometimes and you may have moments when you go backwards, but it will get better now that you've made this decision.  It's like once you realise this, things begin to flow better. 

I see people getting stuck in the disbelief and resentment of how badly they've been treated, but that isn't helpful to you, or conducive to moving on or getting your life back.

Sounds good  :)

Janey x

That's so awesome for you Janey.  Congratulations on venturing out and meeting new people.  I am looking forward to starting new, some change of scenery in August when school starts.

Villages?  Now I can honestly say I have never ever been to a village of sort! LOL  :)

But never say never... . I just may end up in a village one day... . and be its fool!

Simple :) 4 for sure and I bounce back to 3 and sometimes up to 5.  5 depends on how I am doing on 3. 4 has been steady for a while and don't expect that to change. I think lifting of depression accelerates things.

:)  Thanks arn,  it is pretty awesome.  So many people have been kind and friendly. 

Today I asked a neighbour, bearing in mind I only moved in here a month ago, if he had a sack truck I cold borrow because I was going to collect a second hand washing machine and I know he's a builder.  He said he didn't but offered to take me to get it in his van!  He drove me the 45 odd miles round trip to collect it, and plumbed it in for me!

It is now washing my dogs blankets quietly in the kitchen! 

Villages must seem an oddity if you're not living in England or Europe... . They are quaint little places.  This one is set in hundreds of miles of moorland and isn't all that compact, rather scattered over a square mile or so, but the people are very friendly and there's a strong sense of community.  Everyone already knows all about me here, so I am greeted openly by my new friends before I even knew I had them! 

It's exactly what I need at the moment.

Janey xx

May I ask you, Waifed, what is your way to deal with depression?

I became depressed at about the 2nd year point of my relationship in December 2012. I didn't know why but suspected it was my constant changes in meds (ironically because I thought I was feeling better!). I suspect subconsciously a lot of it had to do with the push/pull of the relationship. I missed 3-1/2 months of work because my "P" couldn't get my meds right. He was treating me for anxiety and not depression.

Anyway, fast forward to today and I still am not completely out of my depression but it has really began to lift. 5 months ago I had no interest in doing anything. I didn't want to travel, not interested in sports, hobbies, socializing, etc.

Today I work out with a trainer 3 days a week, take tennis lessons 2 times a week, have been going out some on the weekends and have been on a few trips. I now look forward to life but relationship wise the future is still blurry at best.

I'm right in the thick of it... . namely 2 3 4... .

I think that I am strong and I have moments of clarity and that pushes me towards creative action and then I have a setback... .

All a learning process and all a journey into discovering who I really am... .

Working with my T helps ... . but quite honestly one has to want to do the work and change or in my case... I drift back and forth from 4 to 2... .

I find posting and reading here is extremely helpful... .

All are so supportive... .

For me I hover between 2-3 most days.  More and more I reach number 4 and I think I had a glimpse of number 5 last night.  It was fabulous. 

I am working hard on 2-3 and I definately am trying to focus on 4. 

I am only 7 weeks out but I see now that I knew the relationship was failing for a long time.  I was not blindsided.

So I am trying to focus on me... my wants vs my needs.  Finding out what makes me happy and doing it without regret or worry.

The grief is still there but it is not as all encompassing as it was even 2 weeks ago

Thanks for this post

Thanks for posting the question, SB. 

I'm moving deeply into #3 -- thanks to this community.   I've learned some profound things from each of you.   It has helped me breathe and gives me hope.  I actually see the light of #4 and #5.

Wow - some good stuff here already!

The 2nd part of this question, "what does it look like for you to be in that stage" is actually really important.  I found that when I could tie my own actions to stages (grief or detachment) it helped me be more conscious.  With mindfulness, processing the grief actually came quicker for me (not easy, but not suffering).

For me I live in 4 & 5 for the most part.  BUT, I can pop back into 1,2,3 if something triggers my core stuff.  It is not nearly as bad and I have the tools to pretty quickly work through it; but I think it helps to know that all of us consciously or not will continue to bounce back at times, there is nothing wrong with that.

I had thought that after a year or so when I started dating that was creative action.  I suppose it was, but honestly it wasn't.  It was actually more of stage 2 for about a year as my own emotions were so raw and present.

Creative action looks like in my life:  meeting and making new friends, working towards my personal goals w/o a partner, I have done the Komen 3 Day twice now, started a book club, volunteering here.  I am mindful to not dehumanize or let others pwBPD - this serves no purpose.

My freedom is a direct result of creative action... . that simple really.

hi SB

i am in 2 , 3 and stumbling in 4 :)

i am mostly on 3.

I feel like my life around it is kind of "forcing" me into creative action. Few things opening here and there, i am closing projects i stopped working on when i was with my ex... . i am being invitged to new voluntary stuff... .   i am making new friends and reactivating old ones... .

definitely, stumbling in 4 is helping me to move on. I still get a lot of processing, i still get crying... .  

Thanks for sharing your courage Janey!  New things can be scary, but certainly rewarding in rebuilding our lives.

|iiii

Waifed - thanks for sharing!

So, Arn, Cim, AMU, GW, LG14 - Challenge for you all!

Creative Action - what is one thing that you have always wanted to do for YOU?  Name it here if you dare... .

I'm a pretty solid 3. Processing, grieving, letting go, forgiving. Accepting things as what they were then, and they are what they are now. Doing what I can to make life better for myself. Which helps me with #4. I am getting back to projects I set aside during the r/s, making new friends, doing simple but fulfilling things like reading and writing, learning more about subjects I am interested in. This should all lead to: 5) Freedom. I know I will always have love for her, and remember what we went through, so I'm keeping my expectations in line with "your loss doesn't interfere with your normal feelings of well-being". I won't be 100% free, but more than during these initial stages of detachment.

starting teaching a fitness class!

I work full time as an engineer... . , but i am also a fitness instructor...

I have been invited to give a class at a rather large studio.  terrifying for me as i have not taught like this before... . but i have said yes, and i will start shortly. terrified and excited (both at the same time)

NICE!

|iiii

Creative action ... . for me... .

To attain a goal or reach a place I've always thought I could... . and take off with it... .

I think I've struggled with it ALL of my life... . and I'm just recognizing it now through therapy and my own introspection... .

I think in the past  , the r/s I've had has made this impossible... . by my own sub conscious choosing !

I have lost myself in someone else unfound unhappiness and have failed to recognize that I needed to get there myself... .

So... . to have a goal or two at this point... . (I was a runner before I met my ex)... . finally running a marathon... . And... . Getting more involved with my town library again... . (I'm a trustee) would go along way toward attaining creative action!

Great discussion!  I feel like I'm firmly in 3 and working on 4.  A little incident maybe momentarily knocked me back to 2 this week.  I came out of it more grounded feeling better than ever.  In stage 4, I've been exercising like I used to and that is making a huge difference in my outlook and energy level.  My T sessions are now squarely centered on core issues I brought into the r/s to help me regardless of what happened in the r/s.  I also have started planning the next renovation projects in my 100 year old home.  On top of that, I've been doing a little bit of dating.  This has helped me get out and have some fun with some healthy and happy women.  All I can say is that even with the pain and the struggles of detachment in the last few months, if I could go back to the first b/u in October of 2012 and see what life would look like without the craziness I would have stayed gone for sure... .

Good one!

pick your event and sign up... . let us know when you signed up... .

Wow, Cimbaruns, running marathon!

Yes, keep us posted!  :)

Thanks for joining in Madison!


If I had to pick one thing that 2 & 3 "look like" - this is it.  Thanks for clearly spelling this out about what it looks like - simple and powerful!

For me I want to run a marathon as well and I have never been a runner!  But I am learning and training for a 5k in May. I am terrified I won't pull it off.,.but even if I have to walk I will do it

Good job - 5K in May is perfect creative action... . nice!  Thanks for sharing, keep us posted on how you do.

What about Freedom?

Share your moments here when you feel the burden is gone... .


Its easier to me through creative action. For example when I come home from a longer swim workout I feel really alive - with all happened in the past. My shattered marriage is not like a second skin or a deep wound, I am not victim anymore. I don't have to avoid it in my thoughts and I don't have to think endlessly about it. 

What about your moments of freedom?

Here's the thing... . I'd like to believe I'm in the 5th stage of freedom.  I don't feel like the relationship with my ex affects my current life.  What I will say, though, is that the relationship with my ex was really nothing compared to how I was raised, and the patterns I developed way before I met him.

"The fifth stage is a state of true liberation, which the sage Abhinavagupta describes as the feeling of putting down a heavy burden."

Once you surpass all the questions about BPD, why our ex's behaved as they did, how I let myself stay with them for so long, etc., it all comes down to us - not our ex's... . not by a long shot. 

Are we willing to put down that heavy burden?

That takes a lot of digging, and digging I am doing. 

So, realistically, I am probably more in stage 4. 

"When you have reached the fourth stage of detachment you will want to start something new with real enthusiasm for the doing of it, rather than out of the need to prove something."

I am looking for inspiration and allowing myself to be vulnerable, yet holding onto the knowledge I have gained - daring greatly! 

I moved from PA to TX to to start something new, after researching the area and having a good feeling it would provide the environment I needed to thrive.  Moving from survivor to thriver... . letting go of the victim and the basic survivor - I want to thrive.  |iiii

I'm going between 2 and 3. It has come to my attention that I have codependent tendencies and fear being alone. Acknowledging I was the other half of a toxic relationship has been an eye opener to me. My BPDex projected on me during our breakup, so I'm struggling trying to figure out the line of what I need to work on vs. what she threw on me.

Welcome to Texas

Surina,

That's how I feel when I have just done several miles.  I feel like I am powerful.  That burden is gone for a while.

I also feel freedom when I find something of myself to be proud of.  Increasing my distance or speed at the gym is always a good one.  Successfully doing a yoga pose I couldn't manage before, even a good bout of journaling and introspection will do it.

It has been so very long since I have felt proud of myself for doing something for myself... . it's quite freeing and makes me believe I will get there

Same for me, Want2know. So I would not say I am in 5. I have some 5 moments. Great input about surviving - thriving!

What is important for me: No pressure about a new relationship. When I have thoughts in this direction: Am I normal, I don't have a bf - I am not in 5.



|iiii

I can relate with it very much.

Hi monsoon

and welcome here.  :)

How do you cope with your fear?

This, I think, is also why I don't feel I am quite yet fully in the 5th stage, although, I agree, I have moments in it, too.

From the 5th stage of detachment:

":)esire, fear, and hopelessness are deeply embedded in our psyches, and we feel their pull whenever any remnant of attachment exists. We know that we've begun to achieve real detachment in a situation when we can contemplate what's occurring without immediately getting blindsided by these feelings."

I still get triggered when it comes to meeting new men and contemplating a relationship.  Recently, I started dating, and find that I can spot behaviors that raise the red flags, so I move on and don't pursue anything more.  What my concern is, is that perhaps I'm still gun-shy from going to any next level with someone out of my fear of what happened with my ex.

So, although I don't see myself getting into another relationship with a pwBPD/NPD, I may also be passing over people too soon.  That hesitancy and lack of confidence/trust in myself to handle the next relationship I enter, is the main reason why I feel I am still at a 4 level.

Regarding meeting new possible relationship partners, the 'freedom' level looks like one where I am not as conflicted over a new potential relationship, and instead can accurately see it for what it is and move with confidence.  My guess is there are few people that are still posting on the boards that are in the 5th level, otherwise, they probably wouldn't still be posting here.

Good thread, SB, and thank you for the welcome, Waifed.  :)

Want2know

I guess I haven't fully detached because I still have a fear issue in regards to divorcing my ex... . the fear creeps in when I know I have to have a conversation with her... .

I had to have that conversation and it went badly at first... . with her blasting me as to why I wouldn't respond to her emails (she doesn't know I had blocked her)... . then saying goodbye... . then her proceeding to barrage me with texts telling me how hurtful I was ( I had unblocked her to arrange a time to call)... .

She still I stills a feeling of fear... .

Fear of her raging... . her off the wall remarks... . her putdowns

I guess I'm still attached

Hi Cimbaruns... . I think many people here still have that fear.  In the 2nd stage of detachment 'self-inquiry' it asks that we probe the feelings we are experiencing.  The fact that you are able to admit this fear is a good start.   |iiii

"Self analysis is also a very complex process as we are encumbered by our own self image and feelings."

If you are still in contact with her regarding your divorce, working through these feelings poses a challenge.  It takes some time to get to the processing stage where you can take what you've learned from your experience and start feeling more in control of your life.  Give yourself some time and be kind to yourself.  It might be good to start a new thread about your fears if you are up for it.

Thanks for sharing.  

Gosh, thank you all so much for sharing, so much "self-inquiry" in this thread.

So - this next part is only my opinion/view of all this - not really based on any one thing... . not saying it is right or wrong, just my thought process and where I am today.

Looking at attachments and detachment (whether from our pwBPD as in this thread or other) this is really a practice in Radical Acceptance.  "it is what it is"

Courage is a requirement for all of these phases.  Brene' Brown had an interesting quote regarding Courage:

“Courage is a heart word. The root of the word courage is cor - the Latin word for heart. In one of its earliest forms, the word courage meant "To speak one's mind by telling all one's heart." Over time, this definition has changed, and today, we typically associate courage with heroic and brave deeds. But in my opinion, this definition fails to recognize the inner strength and level of commitment required for us to actually speak honestly and openly about who we are and about our experiences -- good and bad. Speaking from our hearts is what I think of as "ordinary courage.”

Levels 1 - 3 are very core and the first few times we do this can feel big.  I remember feeling "gutted" during the deep parts of this.  What I have come to learn now, is I still have certain triggers in certain circumstance, but those first 3 are a way of thought for me now, so it happens rather quickly and the pain is less of a suffering.

I live levels 4 and 5 daily.  Fundamentally, I think level 4 - Creative Action - is truly a characteristic necessary for living a "full" live.

Marsha Linehan has a goal from DBT for BPD patients - "to create a life worth living".  For me - Creative Action is the birth of that process... . it is scary to try, but it is rewarding.

Detachment is an emotional, spiritual, physical process requiring discipline, courage and patience - the skills developed from this process, I believe, rebuild a sense of our own self that is much more sturdy.

Ok - off my soapbox... . sharing from this thread has really helped me put into words so much of my process - thank you so much for sharing everyone!

Keep sharing your stories folks.

I feel I am still hovering between 2 and 3 right now, though I have done a number of activities that could be considered Creative Action.  I do yoga classes regularly, something I had always wanted to do while married but never had gotten around to.  I took a class in Soul Collage, which is self-discovery through images.  I am an introvert, yet I have gone out to have a drink or a meal in our neighborhood pub a few times. 

I have a horse, an Icelandic mare that I adopted a few years ago as a yearling from an overrun farm in our area that needed to give away over 100 Icelandic unhandled, untrained, unmarketable horses.  She just got to the age where she could be trained to saddle last year, and she was a huge source of comfort and focus when I felt like I was going to spin down into absolute depression.  I did get her saddle trained, and this year she just needs miles and experience.  I do Competitive Mountain Orienteering rides, work on natural horsemanship techniques in the arena with her, and this year I have a goal of doing an endurance ride on her.  We had horses during the last 10 years of our marriage, mostly due to our autistic daughter and her need for horse therapy.  I do feel a sense of freedom now with my horse activities.  I noticed that it was nice to just hook up my trailer and go, without having to be home at a certain time to have dinner on the table, for instance. 

I think that I have glimpsed a few times of feeling like I'm in a state of Freedom, but I'm not totally there yet, obviously, as certain things can still trigger tears.  I'm still grieving the illusion of what I always envisioned a relationship of 40 years should be. 

These are really big Stjarna - pat yourself on the back  |iiii



Yeah, that takes time to do - letting yourself process it is very important.   

Great to read this, thank you. So much courage on this site! Thank you all.

Detaching is a dynamic process. It is lifelong. The expiry of the process is shared by all, because we are flesh and bone.

I believe achieving a state of grace is born from this process and offers salvation--which does not necessarily require a theistic interpretation. To transcend suffering and accept that we are both one with all, and separate from all. That our feelings are the very same feelings felt by a multitude of beings, yet still remain personal to us.

For me, all five stages remain relevant, and sometimes I concurrently experience them. I think there is a risk in both 2 and 3, to compartmentalize--attempting a false sealing away of that which we consider painful. It eventually bubbles up from that inner sanctum and attacks its host.

I would describe myself as being simultaneously detached and attached. I am detached from the expectation/desire that our 7 years living together will repeat itself in a committed manner, but I am attached to the reality that she remains in this world, and we have ties that run deep. We are experientially attached, but have distinct and disordered perceptions concerning those experiences. I am detached from the burden of desiring to control and order her perceptions while accepting that all things change. Compassion springs forth from detachment affording comfort to those in need.   

I'm detached from her, free from her, she's no longer a part of my life or thoughts, although I just woke up from a nap during which she made an appearance in a dream, the first one in a long time.  She'd gotten a lot of new tattoos, something about Winnie the Pooh and cunnilingus, don't know what that's about, bet Freud would have an opinion.

But my own self-inquiry and processing go on.  The pain I went through in that relationship opened a floodgate of older emotions, and it's become clear to me that the running I've been doing for years, justified by telling myself I was just working hard and playing hard, was me outrunning things I should have been processing and grieving.  I've stopped running now, it seems to be the only option left, running was killing me, and my perceptions of myself, other people and the world are all changing.  I don't know who I am or how I fit in the world right now, although I'm positive I'm no longer maintaining a false self, I'm living my real one, as uncomfortable and new as that is, but refreshing in a way.  Self inquiry and processing, day after day... .

LMAO, in the history of this board I bet those two things have never before been combined in a sentence.

Conundrum


Yes, I think this too. For me it goes often in circles.  :)




fromheeltoheal


Do you have some daily routines helping you stop running?

Yes, I've had to work on it and it's still a process, but exercise, meditation, having a schedule and a routine that is healthy, and most importantly setting boundaries so I don't allow people to overload me with commitments, a rebuke of my people pleaser tendencies.