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My exBPDgf begged me to marry her. My gut instinct told me it was not me that she loved but was obsessed with getting married. She admitted to me when we were just friends 18  years ago that she got pregnant on purpose to try to get her boyfriend to marry her.  When we finally decided to date in 2008, she gave me a marriage ultimatum after 5 months of dating. She said I was perfect for her. I told her that I wanted us to focus on our relationship and nurture our growth as a couple. She got very impatient. Everything went south from there. Then she split me black for my ex best friend. I have some guilt over not giving her what she wanted (ring) when she wanted it. For those that married your ex, tell me what I would have been in for had I married her? Would I have been filling an empty hole? Thanks in advance. 

Swimjim

I hear some doubts in your post if you did the right thing in the past about not marrying her after a ultimatum. I think your goal of focus on the relationship and grow as a couple is or better was a valid goal.

Yes, guilty feelings, about not doing what others want or expect from me. I am familiar with it too. 

Its a great step to acknowledge this for yourself.  |iiii

Hey SwimJim,

I concur with Surnia... . the appropriate goal, the essential goal, is to have a stable, loving relationship first, to be affirmed and formalized as a marriage if you so choose.  To become engaged or married while the relationship is unstable is simply not wise, regardless of the presence of BPD traits.  Your sense of unease with proceeding toward a deeper commitment was probably a good thing to listen to!

I faced a situation with my ex when she insisted on becoming engaged within six months or she would end the relationship.  Our relationship was not at all stable at this point in time.  And, the ultimatum aspect of the request was really uncomfortable.  It was not tied to improving the quality of the relationship, just with the outcome.  I felt that se was "solving" her desire to have her life circumstances resolved rather than seeking to build trust and continuity with me. 

But, the relationship did end a year later and I was left thinking that I should have asked her to marry me.  Really, I think that was me thinking that "if only" I had done more than she would have stayed.  What I lose in that process is the focus on my feelings and conviction that it was premature to get engaged and it would have been unwise to marry... . and that her focus on that was an expression of some priorities that were a bit off base.  As I type this I recall that I felt like an "object" in her quest to marry... . or her deeper request to resolve some deep anxiety that she thought could/would be solved if she was just married.  Such a thing does not happen.

SwimJim

I think  your acknowledgement was spot on... .

The fact that you wanted to work on cultivating the r/s instead of marrying her was huge!

Speaking for me... . I faced a similar situation and fell into the hole and rode it all the way to the bottom!

Marriage to my ex was a fantasy... . in fact I remember her testing me right up until we planned and had the ceremony... . she repeatedly asked me if I "loved her" and really wanted to marry her... . it was the biggest error in judgement on my part that I ever made!

The marriage did absolutely nothing for her ... . or us... . instead of us working toward a life that we thought we wanted it made it all the worse .

I recognize now that my decision was not for the best... . and I certainly played an important part in feeding her abandonment issues. I was dysfunctional as well... .

I truly feel... . you would never have been able to fill the empty hole... . you'd just be filling it together and falling deeper in... . for me anyway... . that was the case!

You made the right judgement call here Swimjim

No one can make another happy, content - that needs to come from the individual.

Marriage will not make anyone happy if there are deep seated emotional issues. You cannot make her happy!

BPD is an emotional and shame disorder - swim, it's not about you, it's about her. You cannot fix it, cure it or make it better for her - she needs to do that herself.

Clearmind is spot on Swimjim

No one can make another happy... . only they themselves

I missed this one at every turn in my r/s... . spent countless hours thinking I could solve the puzzle ... . when in actuality I couldn't make myself happy either.

Only now I recognize my disconnect and am beginning to work on me!

That's the puzzle we should be working on... . ourselves

Eye opening for sure!

Thanks guys for your replies. It seemed to me that the ring to her was like a trophy and  I was just an object.If she would be able to walk around town as a Mrs. and a nice ring on her finger, she would feel more complete as a person. After the ring, it would have probably been something else she would become obsessed about to fill a void for her, right?

We were going to get married. The closer we got to it, the more she pushed and pulled. Guess what? We broke up instead. Sh!t happened. The trust was completely broken, and she made sure to wound me on the way out. We both wanted marriage but for different reasons. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. When you get it, can you handle it? A marriage doesn't work when you fight against it. I'm coming to accept that being married was just a dream, it wasn't going to solve her problems (or mine).

After the ring, it would have probably been something else she would become obsessed about to fill a void for her, right?

Right!

hi swimjim. first, a few anecdotes.


i overheard my stbxw say before we were married, "i wanted a husband and if i had to go to [the place i'm from which is far from her home] to get one i was going to do that."  red-flag i found copies of Brides' magazine hidden in her place while we were still just dating. red-flag she also fell in love with me lickety-split, which made me feel not joyous but worried about the content of her idea of love.  red-flag


my stbxw tried to trick me into pregnancy. i understand that she was very hurt when i got cold feet about starting a family. but i explained explicitly that i needed a partner and she had to address her drinking and  slovenliness problems before i could feel secure about having a kid. no response from her. i was very hurt too when she wouldn't come across. so one day after we did it she gave me the big eyes and said "oh i would never tell you if i was wearing protection." in the event there was no pregnancy.


your status as her husband would be unable to fill the hole in her emotions. my w not only wanted the ring, but once married she persisted in the behaviors in the diagnostic list: irresponsible drinking, driving, eating, etc. in my case there was nothing, it seems, short of complete fusion of my self within hers that would have made her feel whole, and i wouldn't do that, and that might not have been enough for her anyway. in true BPD, the hole is unfillable. even those pwBPD who have succeeded in therapy say that their behaviors have modified, but the feelings are still there.

everyone's situation is different, but for a particularly extreme example, read this post by ThanksForPlaying which has stuck in my mind:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211522.msg12328562#msg12328562

ditto - couldn't have said this better myself  |iiii

People should build a life together as a choice, not an obligation or threat IMHO.

SJ:  I'm sorry for your second thoughts.  I've gone through it many times.  Maybe it would have been different if we got married.  Maybe I made a mistake... .

But first of all, I know that I did so many things... . so many changes... . so many efforts... . so many attempts... . and nothing was ever good enough.   So why would one more thing do it.

In addition, it's not just abandonment issues.  It's the push pull of abandonment/Engulfment.  It doesn't make sense, but it's the Disorder.  So as we try to sate one of the bottomless wants, it's indirect conflict with the other.   So yes, the abandonment issue gets better, but the engulfment disorder get worse.  Cheating gets worse, emotions get worse, fear gets worse, and since the pwBPD feels less likely that she'll be left, she less respectful of boundaries and every less functional.  

So very simply, if you weren't able to submit to  her marriage demands while in your FOG, you never had a chance to make it though the marriage without it getting worse.  :)o a search on marriage on this board, and read how many people just say that it got dramatically worse after marriage.

It's a DISORDER.  What we do won't fix them.  In our FOG, we believed that we could rescue them. And we allowed ourselves to be conned into believing that it was our fault that they were who they are.  But it's a DISORDER.  What we do won't fix them.  Can our actions fix an autistic person?  Can our actions fix a Bag Lady?  or the mean Cat lady on the block?

But I know the ruminations.  I think about it all the time.  We all do on this board.  The good news is that it's not just me.  Read about how many people are happy in their marriages on here      75,000 posters and maybe 50 claim that things are good.  But of those 50 half have left after a while cuz it was still HELL!

Leaving is the best thing I've ever done in my life.  That doesn't mean that the pain or doubts have stopped, but it's the absolute truth.  I know it, and I'm getting  better everyday.  My life is so much more meaningful.  It's my own FOO issues and MH issues that want me to go back to the place where I don't have to do anything but dump into a bottomless emotional garbage disposal of my my ex wBPD.  It was easier to do that, than look at my own fears, shame, and guilt.

But now I lean into the pain of self and grow.

You will as well.  Give it time.  I understand, and I know you'll get through it if you put in the effort.

in support

T

I don't think being married matters a bit to them.  Perhaps it may make you feel more obligated to stay with them but it sure as hell doesn't make them stay around!

My exh asked me to marry him a couple of months after we met (he was still married to his second wife at the time, although they had been separated for 6 months).  He repeatedly asked me during the next couple of years and eventually we did get married.  It was all downhill from there and gradually his behaviour got worse.

Eventually, 5 years after we married, he suddenly dumped me for another woman 'because he didn't see a future for us because I have a son that he doesn't like'.  I pointed out that he knew this when he married me and that marriage is meant to be for life and he whined 'but I didn't know we would have problems'.

So from what I can see, marriage doesn't make them less like to abandon you and doesn't seem to prevent any of their issues arising.

From Characteristics of Healthy Relationships:

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm (https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm)

7. If someone starts telling you that you need to prove your love by living with her/him, buying a house with/for her/him, marrying her/him, be very cautious. You shouldn't have to "prove" your love. Your love should be evident over time by consistent loving actions.

For me it started with I did not spend enough time with her, then it became moving in, then it became marriage.

Each time I resisted but I eventually became like the slot machine that eventually would pay out (in my case give in).

I could see after fulfilling the first two, the relationship never changed, so why would marriage change the dynamic and suddenly make the relationship healthy?  Too much damage had happened and I realized that I could never take that next step with her.  That the love was not evident over time and we were just perpetuating eachothers' disorders.  I began detaching, and she began attaching to another.

In addition, the only thing consistent in the relationship was the dysfunction.