BPDFamily.com

One family whose son I teach, basically like home schooling, well, the youngest in the family is a 4 year old boy. Within the last day or so, the doctor discovered a growth in his throat that needed to be surgically removed. So, the family took this poor, innocent boy to the hospital out of town, and, luckily, the surgery was successful today. It definitely is a relief for everybody while the 4 year old boy must have been really scared and confused as to why he is in the hospital. Seeing that that family is such a great, positive set of people and seeing that they were truly scared, so many people and I were feeling the same way.

When I shared what had happened and how they and I were scared, my BPDw decided to sermonize with: "Well, if it is meant to be, it is meant to be.", etc. Granted, if anything horrible would have happened, it wouldn't be helped; however, she expressed no compassion whatsoever. I just said that he is fine and walked away.

Later on, she came into my room, complaining about how much learning she has to do, but this is something she wants to do. Um, in terms of priorities, let's see: learning information or a person's life? Hmm!

While all of us non BPDs listen to our BPDs' complaints and how important they are, this is just another example that it is unbelievable and frankly heartless!

I can see how it might seem that way, that she is heartless, however, after reading the Lessons on this board, knowing that pwBPD have poor executive control and are emotionally immature, her response may have nothing to do with being heartless.

I know engaging with her in a conversation about it would probably seem hopeless, and therefore you are left with a feeling of resentment.  What do you think will help you lose that resentment? 

Want2know, the way I can lose that resentment is not to share with my BPDw how I feel and what other people in my life mean to me. After all, she is very selfish.

There is much conflict in this post, Samuel.

I don't see you letting go of the resentment by not sharing with your wife.  She may be selfish, I'm not questioning that, but it doesn't seem like you are to a spot of radical acceptance and mediating your reactions to her behavior. 

I see you have been a member here since 2008, and that more recently you took a year off from posting, coming back here in October.  You have been together for a long time, with some tragedy as a backdrop (her daughter's death).

Knowing that the Staying board is not meant for venting, and instead for looking to solutions, what are you looking for here now? 

Want2know brings up a valid point here, Samuel.  Your wife has lost a child, her daughter.  The way she might cope with that is by telling herself, "Well, if it is meant to be, it is meant to be", while submerging herself in schoolwork. 

It might not be either.  She might really be the heartless, selfish person you think she is.  Or something else entirely.

What do you think?  In what ways are you benefitting by believing that your wife's priorities are out of whack?

Want2know, I do wish to let go of the resentment. In fact, in some ways, I have. I have accepted her decision to pursue what she wants to pursue. At the same time, she is being selfish. The word compromise is not part of her vocabulary. She was the one that told me that she was the perfect wife, that nobody else ever appreciated me as much as she has. Well, she has proven herself wrong by her actions. I don't expect her to focus 100% on me, but to go to 0% is rather extreme. So, while I understand her need to change professions, it is definitely hard to have a marriage like this. If the tables were turned that I would be doing this, she would be complaining like she did with her first husband who was out of the house more than in it. When I brought that up to her, she said she understood why, thus justifying not having any relationship with me. By the way, just today, her own daughter felt sad that her own mother was going off again to stay away for another 4 days.

If I am to accept radical acceptance and to mediate my reactions, is this not another take on "The Stepford Wives"? Am I supposed to say that is fine, that this is okay? I can be happy for her, but it is a poor relationship, no matter what terms you want to use.

123Phoebe, if she is not being heartless or selfish, how about letting me know what the other options are?

As for my benefits under these circumstances, while I do teach and tutor on a part-time basis along with some other projects, I have been doing those other projects, because she is not around, in order to fill the void of not having her around.

I don't think they're heartless either, but something is not right with their cognitive analysis.

My BPDexgf made some scary statements to me regarding the value of life... .   "I'm not afraid of dying" and "If it's god's will then so be it"... . really upset me and I don't think she had any idea.  It wasn't that she was having suicidal ideation or anything like that, she'd just resigned herself to 'life' being perhaps of less of a value than I held it... .   (maybe I haven't explained myself v well... . I'm struggling)

Sadly, her premonition came true when I hit rock bottom... . my life didn't hold much value to her in the moment, she just vanished.  Couldn't deal with 'it'... . whether 'it' be shame, fear, arrogance for believing I wanted her back, denial... . I don't know.  She got the goodbye text, that's all i'll say.  no response.

I forgive her.  She's not heartless, but it was the best example to me of how poorly she really is inside.  On the surface she's gorgeous, inwardly she's so sad.   I saw her last week for about 3 seconds and a part of me wanted to know just what she feels about those desperate days, but the answer would be the BPD illness talking and not the heart of the girl I fell in love with. 

So, in answering/responding to your threat, she/they are not heartless, indeed they have amazing hearts, but the goodness that lies within their hearts is wrapped up in inpenetrable layers which mean only the illness escapes at times of stress.  The only way to free the true person is via the therapist and the BPD doing their all to get well. 

I've forgiven myself for that text.  But it's a good example of how low us nons can get when we don't know what we're dealing with (I had no ida of the disorder), went into the relationship with open hearts but a little damage, and fell in love.  My mistake was going in with the damage, the rest was life!  Her mistake was nothing -just the shame of not being able to tell me her diagnosis, probably loving me, and being wrapped in fear from her past... . and present (my leaving). 

ONE MORE THING I'VE LEARNED:  No BPD's are heartless.  Some have a closed heart and give up/deny, but others (my ex included) want to get better and try... .  

The hope that she may one day get better and live a happy/fulfilling life is the one thing that makes me think it was all worth it for me... .   she's going to therapy every week, and for that i'm grateful xx   

Samuel

It is evident you are hurting beyond belief in this relationship and for that my heart goes out to you.

Accepting that this is not what you signed up for when you married your wife might be the first step?  I don't know

I don't want to come off as "suck it up" and be a Stepford Husband.  Your feelings matter!  They do.

If you are unhappy with the way things are and you've exhausted all of the tools available here to help improve your relationship, through honest communication and actions... .   What other options are there?

Are you in this for the long haul or have you contemplated divorce?  Have you spoken with a therapist about your unhappiness?

123Phoebe, thank you for your feedback and for your suggestions. I will re-read the lessons here for a starter and see how that helps. If I need more guidance, I will contact a counselor.

Today, I was mulling something else over. Thinking positively about my BPDw, she is talking with me every day, whether it is very limitedly in person or on the phone when she is away studying and attending classes. She is not only sharing her day and her frustrations, but she is also asking about me. She has not been verbally abusive as she had been. She did say she wishes she were finished with her studies now in order to pursue her new career.So, from that perspective, my BPDw is somewhat interactive. I just wish there could be more quality time that I could have with her.

That is totally understandable, Samuel.

I don't know about you, but something I caught myself doing when we would be having a nice time together, was thinking to myself, "We should be doing this a lot more often".  I was sabotaging my own nice time   and his, by not being in the present moment, but thinking too much about how I thought things should be.  A lot of that inner stuff comes out in our body language, delayed responses, facial expressions etc... .   I was sending signals that what he was offering wasn't good enough.  Yet, there I was!  Pretty conflicting.


|iiii  The lessons are pretty amazing

I agree with, 123 Phoebe. We all have our emotional bagage and history. We all sometimes deal with our feelings in a way that other people dont seem to find fair. For example, I lost both my parents before I was 30. It was sudden and shocking. With the time passing I have learned to deal with others people passing in a difficult way to understand. I say: We are born and we die. That is it. And people look at me with shock. I don't want to say that. I hurt when my friends hurt too but I don't want to show them that I feel like screaming my lngs out that death SUCKS and that I miss my mom and dad.

She lost her daughter. She seems distant to your feelings about that little boy. But, inside herself, isn't she suffering too? This might be whats going on.

She might be selfish, yes, and heartless too. Or , it might be a way for her to hide her pain.

Samuel, I don't think they are "heartless", but lacking in empathy. I read that the amagdyla, the part of the brain responsible for self referential thought, is hyper active in people with BPD. In essence, everything is about them, and it can be demonstrated in brain imaging.

This past summer, my niece was stillborn at 33 weeks, to my only sister, with whom I am close. When I got the call I was absolutely devestated for her. As a mother, I couldn't imagine being in the home stretch, the crib all put together, the clothes washed and folded, the bag by the back door ready for labor, and then being told that you'll have to give birth to your child's corpse and come home empty armed. It was horrifying. I put down the phone, dropped my head into my hands and sobbed. He sat there staring at me. He finally asked what happened. When I told him, he said "what's the big deal? this stuff happens all the time. it happened to so and so as well. get over it!" then "look at you! you're such a drama queen! why are you making this about you?" I was stunned. STUNNED, by the heartlessness. I couldn't imagine. Even if you don't share the grief, common decency recommends that the spouse puts an arm around the other and says something like "it'll be ok/ i'm sorry/ what can we do for them?". Instead, I was ridiculed. And this response was when he is ON his mood stabilizing meds, not off them, when he is about a million times more likely to dyseregulate.

But clearly, after knowing him for 13 years, he is not a BAD guy. He's a good citizen, is a great dad, is very helpful and generous. But there is some kind of a block there. There has to be. Otherwise their seeming callousness would be borderline sociopathic.

I just want to affirm in you what you see and experience. Accepting them for what they are, sort of dictates that you either have to have super human abilities to insulate yourself, or you are choosy and careful in what you share. It is sad, but the acceptance comes in when you accept that they can't be for you what you want or need on a consistent basis. Some can live with that, some cannot. I am a cannot.  :'(

I'm curious -- why do you seem to think she has the obligation to feel as you want her to feel, rather than how she actually feels?  She's buried a daughter of her own, why "should" she be all torn up over a small, easily-removed growth on the throat of a child she doesn't even know?  You're torn up about it, that is reality.  But equally, she is not torn up about it, and that is also reality.  Can this reality -- you two are simply different people -- be ok to you, without you resenting her for it? 

Radical acceptance basically consists of accepting them as they are, without trying to impose "shoulds" on their feelings or overall personality.  Can you do that?  And if you can't, how is the relationship going to last?

"torn up" is an extreme way to characterize the emotions in the first post. i don't read Samuel as being torn up; he sounded concerned and relieved. i don't read that Samuel was expecting his w to be torn up; i read that he thought she might express a bit of concern, and even happiness at the outcome. i found her response callous too. the experience i've had with cancer in myself and in my family and the amazing stoicism with which some of my aunts and uncles have dealt with it, even facing death, doesn't diminish the sympathy i, at least, feel for others who have it.

frankly i find some of the responses here vicious.

I can understand how Samuel feels,  shocked that even in an adverse situation it is still all about her.  Although I get it that a person who has BPD has the emotional maturity of a3 year old it can become very wearying and soul destroying to live with that on a full time basis,  after all most of us are very relieved when our 3 heart Olds grow up and develop some empathy.  Radical acceptance can be a hard concept when you feel that what is said is down right mean,  damaging or nasty.  I know that when a relative had another miscarriage this one at 5 months and my ex BPD dil said nastily (and it was nasty) that well at least she could have another one we were all shocked at her callousness.  To some of us who have empathy it is shocking when someone displays such an apparent lack of it especially if they have experienced such a situation them selves.

Obviously, an easily removed growth in the throat of someone she didn't know wasn't that big a deal to her.  Can that be ok, or does she have to pretend to be someone else in order to be accepted?  Isn't this really one of the big issues at the heart of BPD -- the inner belief they have that they must constantly wear masks, indiscriminately mirror others, and try to be someone else in order to win approval and avoid abandonment?  And really, what gives anyone the right to demand that someone else pretend to be someone they aren't?  She is who she is.

My mother has BPD.  I have found that expecting her to be someone she's not, demanding that she be someone she's not, or shaming her for not being someone else only exacerbates her behavior.  When I can't deal with who she is, I make a choice and keep my distance.  I've been LC with her for years, for precisely that reason.

It's not vicious, it's honest.  

It is very interesting how our responses have varied, and this is a great way to delve into the thinking patterns of a BPD.

I need to clarify something. I have never expected or demanded that my BPDw feel one way or another. She believes what she wants to believe. That is totally her choice, and I do not say anything to the contrary to her. What I am baffled by is the fact that since my BPDw has lost her own daughter now 15 years ago who was only 7 1/2, she naturally experienced a major loss that nobody can possibly ever want to have. It was an extremely traumatic event for her. Seeing that she understands this kind of the situation, she knows what it is like. Every time there is a situation like this of a young person whether it is a medical emergency or a death, she will bring it back to her own loss when she is with me. That is understandable. Yet, she would never do this with the person who has experienced a similar situation. 

So, there are two sides to her: one at the core of her being who has been deeply traumatized and one who never reveals such "it is meant to be" feelings with the other person having experienced a similar situation.

This is just how she is, due to her own circumstances, and I have accepted that is how she is. She is being very honest in her manner of being.

While all of the above is true, when it comes to my own joy and to my own time, she just says "that's nice" and moves on to something that she can nag about, thus changing the subject. Again, that is just how she is. That is why I enjoy others who have the ability to have a positive attitude and feel joyous about life. She is trying to improve herself with her studies, and that's awesome. In that respect, I am happy for her, but even then, she complains about it being so much work instead of being a labor of love and a joy.

Lunira, I feel compelled to ask you if you have an SO who has BPD or if it is just your mother? That parent relationship is very important, but less so when the parent and child are both adults. There is something about being joined in heart and being through marriage to someone that behaves in a cold dismissive self centered way towards you. It is deeply disturbing and extremely painful. While it is wrenching and sad to have to accept and separate oneself from their parent, it is a whole other banana to have to live with and risk intimacy with someone who has proven to be quite heartless.

And as for Samuel, it is highly likely that this was the most recent and ready example of a pattern of behavior... . just like for us all.

Samuel, you have no choice but to accept what she is, because fighting it or being outraged does no good. But accepting it does not mean it has to feel ok, or BE ok... . those are your choices to make. If it is not ok for you, what're you going to do about it?

Seneca, I have no other choice, but to accept the way my BPDw is. Complaining to her about it will make her that much more determined to continue being rather distant, but more so. So, I have needed to go elsewhere professionally for the joy of others and for my own joy. If and when she resumes with her constant, verbal abuse, I am packing my bags and leaving. After all, that is the last thing I need or want.

After I came back to our house this evening, my BPDw had dinner ready for now, and I thanked her for that. Seeing that she is not around much, this is kind of a big deal. While I was eating, she asked me how my day was while she was reading whatever she was reading. I started to respond, but realizing what she was doing, I stopped saying anything. She then talked about what she was reading. She then caught herself that she actually did not hear me at all. I resumed saying what my day was like. She then did the same thing, interrupting me. So, I again stopped. I never said anything like she was being rude or giving her a bad look. I just stopped talking. After the second time, she finally listened and gave me her attention. I hope she learned that if she wants to ask me something, I hope she is willing to listen. Yet, based on past experiences, I will need to react in the same way again. Yet, if she wants to say something to me, I need to be all ears, if you will. It is no wonder that I enjoy working with people outside by listening and by talking and by helping. Any reactions? How do you folks deal with this kind of behavior?

I am very familiar with this situation, Samuel, my mother, my exh, and some co-worker are doing this too. For a long time I did the same like you. I just stopped talking. It doesn't worked well bc they didn't realize it and I cut my voice... .

What about in a gentle way to speak about your frustration in this situation?

"Its the second time I started to tell you something and could not finish it. I feel a bit frustrated. I would really like to share with you how my day went."

Unfortunately, it seems that from my experience... opening up yourself to a BPD can only either give them ammo to hurt you or cause them to get upset claiming its all about you and you are selfish.  It just seems to be a one sided deal with them