BPDFamily.com

So, after a lengthy horrendous time with my BPD wife.  She is saying she does not love me and wants a divorce and that I am all to blame.

She asked for what I would settle with her for amicable divorce.  I stated I do not want divorce, but I know it looks like its inevitable

Everything is in my name.  The house was purchased before we married, the cars are in my name.  After a serious argument to prove I forgave her for abuse I put her on my bank account.  She just finished getting her degree but refuses to get a job stating that there is nothing she wants to do with degree and she has not worked full time for 7 years.  She works some cleaning houses under the table now

I told her I would give

House - Upon sale of house, all proceeds will be split 50/50.

Materials - all items in house you may have cept my clothing and computer and any sentimental effects

Communications - we each responsible for our own phone service, internet, etc

Utilities - whoever is in the house in meantime is responsible

Insurance - we each cover our own insurance

Vehicles - wife gets the 2008 CRV.  I will make payments until its completely paid off for her.  I get 03 ranger

I will pay $1200 a month in child support until youngest child is 18

I will take all debt with me


She calls and says

a. both are step children and not adopted so I get no rights to any of them

b. how can she possibly live on just $1200 a month, paying bills

Am I insane?  I think I was fairly generous.  $1200 is roughly 20% of my income.  We been married 3 years and together 11 almost.  The whole time, I have supported her financially cept for one year, but during that year she lost her money on doing drugs while I paid bills. 

I love her to death, but it sounds greedy.  One of reasons we having a hard time is she has charged up $25k in credit card bills in past year alone.  She has half completed renovations all over the house making it unsellable.

If neither child is yours why are you paying child support?  And if you won't be able to be in their lives seems pretty harsh from her especially if she is asking your for funds?  Does their bio dad pay child support already?

I think you need to talk to an attorney before agreeing to anything.  You may really hurt yourself here.

Do you have one?

she has two kids from previous relationships with two different fathers.  One has a father in his life that does pay child support

The other she never put the dads name on birth certificate.  She knows who it is.  He has never seen the child and the child him.  He knew she was pregnant, encouraged her to get pregnant, then disappeared a couple months in.  I have been in this child's life since he was 1.  I am who he knows as his father.  He knows i am not biological, but he loves me as his dad.  he cut his arms when I left last time cause he missed me... I feel horrible about that.

I do not have anything left to give...  I was paying the $1200 because I care about them all so much and 20% of income is nothing in the grand scheme.  I love my wife as much as ever.  I am not angry with her in this... .

I have lawyers I could use, but I do not want to hurt her anymore.  Without me the damage and trouble she is in is immense.  I honestly do not know if she will not just commit suicide once she realizes the weight of responsibility in paying for things.  She has never in her life lived alone.  She did for 6 months, i take that back... she declared bankruptcy

She has it hard enough without me... .   there is not much she can do anyways.  Everything I have left of any value was before her, and even that I will give up.  I will give up everything and take all the debt...

Moving on financially and in every way is not hard.  I make decent money...

IT does not just sound greedy, it IS greedy.  And entitled.  And unreasonable.

Yikes!  You are GIFTing above and beyond.  I hope you didn't put that all in writing.  (Even if you did, you could always say you reconsidered and are modifying your offer.)  Get local legal advice pronto!

A three year marriage does not merit GIFTing her anywhere near that much.

Maybe... .

• Car for her - okay, your choice but in order to limit your liability in case she has an accident, get off the title, make sure it is registered in her name.  You never know when she might drop insurance and then any accident in a car you still own would immediately become a major liability disaster for you.



• House - Deeded in your name and mortgage in your name, keep it that way, limit the complications.  Unless she invested money in the house or the state laws require otherwise, it is pre-marital.  Also, if it is not required but you do want to be nice, then she would get half of the INCREASE in equity AS IS, if any, since marriage.



• Child support - sorry, but that's zero.  More about that below concerning GIFTS and not obligations.



• Spousal support during the divorce - You may be required to pay during the divorce but don't overypay.  The court will likely set the amount.



• Alimony after the divorce decree - In most cases that is short term, usually no more than half the length of the marriage and often even less.  For you that would probably be a year or two at most.  (Mine was 2 months for every year of marriage.)



• Job training - you helped her get a degree, so you don't have any obligation to help her train for a career, you've already done that!



• Joint bank accounts - That should be okay as long as you don't put too much money there.  You never know when she might get upset and drain the accounts.  Keep the majority of your money and investments in separate personal account(s).  Keep any inheritance money in a separate personal account, never commingle inheritance money with other moneys.  And NO you are not obligated to add her to any accounts.



• Joint credit accounts - avoid these like the plague.  Too easy for you to get stuck.  If you must, then let her be a cardholder and not a joint accountholder, it's much easier to handle any problems that way.

And as GreenMango wrote, if you didn't legally adopt her children then you have no legal responsibility for them.  If you feel you want to do something for THEM in the future, which is fine, actually great, then after the divorce you could voluntarily give them GIFTS but not under any written or legal obligations to her whatsoever.  Besides, gifting her money may not result in benefits for the children, she may squander it.  Please, keep control of your money.  You can always gift later but until you do gift, keep control of it.

And if the children are likely to self-harm, then they should be in long term counseling, you sure don't want another generation of people with xPD.  Sadly, that's not something you can control if you're obligated to hand over money without enforceable conditions to be met.  However, if you gave money for them only if they were in solid counseling, etc, then that might work.  But gifting her money up front won't help them.

Why was I writing so stingily above?  No, I'm not a tightwad, I'm not cold or heartless either, the point is that she is going to get far more than she deserves anyway, why gift her even more and for many years to come?  Yes, you feel you want to "do the right thing" but the fact is you are still Walking In BPD Land and still under her spell somewhat.  Besides that, you can't be sure what your income will be in the years ahead.  What if you lose your job or lose your business, then what?  So if you absolutely have to pay post-marital support, such as the judge orders it, that's one thing.  But to volunteer obligations not knowing whether you will be able to afford it in the future, that's a different matter.

In other words, you can be generous but don't obligate yourself for years to come to be generous.  Let it come from the heart at that time, not as a promise or obligation made years before.  Why?  Because you may start to hate your giving when you are forced to do it year after year and her not showing any appreciation whatsoever.  Better to freely give without obligation, if you make yourself obligated, then it's no longer giving.

Lastly, give nothing major until you have a package deal and it is Final - usually as part of the court order or decree.  Gifting her stuff along the way may actually cause her to delay more to extract even more from you.

hh - please, talk to a lawyer tomorrow.

HH,

I completely agree with FD.

Do not give/gift her anything.

Let the courts work it out.

She will get way more than she is entitled to. And in her mind she is entitled to almost everything.

CALL AN ATTORNEY! I was too embarrassed to do it for too long for many reasons, and it cost me big time. They will not listen to reason or agree to anything reasonable, without an outside authority making it so... .

Hurt - I echo what everyone else has already said.  GET AN ATTORNEY NOW!

I am a nice guy by anyone's standards except stbx.  We seem to get drawn to pwBPD like moths to a light.  Honestly you are probably not in any kind of emotional state to be making the offers you are making.  Nice guys tend to assume we are dealing with a rational person on the other side of the table.  You are not!

I would add one additional item - please consider getting yourself a therapist for you and just you.  Not marriage counseling.

been going to psychiatrists since I was 5 .  Thats why I pushed her to get help.  I believe everyone needs professional sometimes

I mean originally it was for OCD which I still have, but past 10 years its pretty much been a full on assault on dealing with her and the emotional tug of war it is on me

one of funny things is she has no credit cards nor debit cards of her own, yet nobody asks here any questions as she charges up ones with my name on it.  even Neiman Marcus of all places lets her use my cards without questions why she isnt a male... SHE DOESNT EVEN HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME AS ME.  she kept her last name

Usually the biggest problems with credit cards are joint accounts, they can be real headaches since joint mean you both have rights to it.  Some have tried to cancel joint cards and the spouse just called up and got them reopened.

If it's your cards & accounts and she's just a card holder or has possession of your cards, well, that's something you do have control over, up to you to resolve, which is why we don't give that a big priority, we're concentrating on the out of control forest fires.

If she's impersonating you to get access to your accounts without your permission, that's identity fraud.  If you can document it and prove you notified her not to do it or that it is no longer allowed, then you may have basis to avoid those debts and let them be her debts, even make a police report for fraud.  Of course, then be prepared for Mount Vesuvius... .

Hurt,

Please beware. I have lost tens of thousands of dollars because of her using my cards, opening up a dozen cards (when she did not even have a job). I cut them up.I paid them off. She just called and had them re-issue more cards.

Stop the insanity.

Change banks and passwords. Destroy all active accounts.

What I do not understand is that my cards are not joint...

They do not have her name on them, yet businesses still let her use my cards for purchases.  They never ask for ID or anything. 

I sometimes am tempted to just dispute the charges and tell those places tough luck.  She doesnt impersonate me even.  They just let her use the cards, and never even look at the name on the cards she gives them

You can always ask for new cards with new account numbers and make sure the old cards and numbers are deactivated and no longer linked to your accounts.

Yes, she may get triggered, even rant and rage and retaliate in some way, but those are your account(s), your option, your decision.

As I mentioned above, if they were joint accounts then it would be much harder to accomplish.

Edit:  And stop letting her somehow get possession of the cards.

hurthusband,

There has been some very good advice dispensed above. Wanting to do the things you mentioned for her is very noble and it proves you have a good heart. BPDs will take folks like you and I because we are well meaning like that and 'use' it to their advantage. It took me a while but I have gotten real angry with mine for choosing me to abuse. Why did she? Because she could.

Wanting to give her those things also is very well meaning BUT dont do it!  Rmember, no matter what you offer to give her, she will stone wall for much more. She probably wont stop till its all gone if you allow it. Best thing is to start with offering the very bare minimum. Dont worry she will fight for more and like I say will probably not stop till its all gone if allowed.

If the house was pre-marital she has NO claim to it not even in the eyes of the law.

"I have been in this child's life since he was 1.  I am who he knows as his father.  He knows i am not biological, but he loves me as his dad.  he cut his arms when I left last time cause he missed me... I feel horrible about that."

I am thinking you may have rights to this child.  It seems cruel not to allow that.  Also, if you agree to give child support for a child you are not allowed to see or have a hand in raising anymore, you give up your leverage.  You should tell your wife you can give child support if you have some visitation.  Act as if you have that right.  Obviously this child needs you.  I wonder if there is something like common law custody if you have been in this child's life for a while.  If he calls you daddy, and courts do things in the best interest of the child, you may have some legal right to visitation or part custody.  It seems common sense.

You know what this sounds like, besides distress, right?  Cutting?  He needs counseling and probably some monitoring during and after this process.  It may even qualify for children's services involvement.

No way! Listen to FD and the others here. Get an atty now!

BTW,all debt is considered joint and will be split.She'll have to pay half.That may be a bargaining tool later down the line,so dont mention it.

House = yours

Spousal support? Nope!

Child support? Nope!

Her degree = She needs to pay that back to you.You gave her a great footing at being employment worthy and she declined the employment.

Debts = Both are on the hook for that,unless you prove she used the cards without you athourization,which is fraud and theft.

You seriously need to do a credit check on yourself. You may not know all that you're on the hook for.

Hurt,

None, I repeat none of my business accounts are hers. Yet she stole thousands of dollars through forged checks.

Second. Had a second card issued against my account. Thousands lost.

Third. Opened up several credit cards in her name while she did not have a job... . Three times.

I cut them up after I found out. But that did not stop her. She just called and asked for new ones.

District attorney stated that it was my problem since I did not lock up checkbook and information in my own home!

You need to talk to an attorney before making any legal decisions. PERIOD.

Follow the law and pay no more than that. Later, if you want to take money out of your pocket and give it to her that is your decision. Don't legally obligate yourself to anything that you don't have to legally obligate yourself to.

Credit checking is important in business I am so I monitor my credit...   It has certainly dropped past couple of years but fortunately still 749 so still good, just not super great anymore. 

Thanks for all the support

HH,

Please listen to the other great advice here.  First and foremost you absolutely must separate the emotional aspects of what you are going through from the legal and financial aspects.  Find a lawyer that will take care of you during this very vulnerable period of your life.  11 years is a long time and I'm sure the heart strings are pulling at you, but this is exactly why you need a lawyer.  The lawyer will protect your interests so that ten years from now, when her and the children are no longer a part of your life, you won't have any regrets.  Think about an alternative future with a new woman and new children and don't you want to be in the best possible position for them?  Also, if you have not already, in a parallel path you need to get into counseling for yourself.  This is a serious emotional trauma you are going through and BPD is the gift that keeps on giving.  Find a counselor that can help you through this very difficult time in your life.  Believe me, this is real trauma.  The trauma of war was nothing compared to what I went through with my BPD ex wife. 

God Bless,

Mava

I cannot help but feel guilty over all of this and I do not want to hurt her still.  I do not have any desire to ever be married again nor have any children.  I feel guilty enough thinking about what I am leaving, and do not want to ever risk hurting anyone again.  It does not matter whether it is cause they are at fault and sick and believe I did or I actually did

I do not know that I can fully go through with it.  It is not something she is forcing so now I am going to have to be the one that pulls the trigger.

I am in therapy, but my brain just cannot accept that this woman is completely crazy and that I am not more at fault.  This is not the same woman I was with even 2 years ago.  It has morphed over the years into this.  There was no doubt craziness, but this is just different.

It is good you are working things out in therapy.

Having an atty look out for your best interests is extremely important when you are at this stage in your head. Doing the legal requirements and nothing more is hurting no one. It is following the rules of the game. There is no good or bad in that. It just is.

The good or bad comes from you and your actions. Doing the legal requirements and nothing more will give you time to work through therapy. Remember, you can always give money after all the legal requirements are satisfied.

I have a friend that went through a divorce. His ex was not BPD. He felt guilty too. He gave ex much more than was legally required. It was against his attorneys advice. I also agreed with his attorney. He did it anyway. That was 4 years ago. He went to therapy. About a year ago he realized he should have listened to his atty. He is still paying ex large monthly amounts of money. She makes a good salary now and doesn't need the money. His business is struggling and he may go out of business. His biggest expense that he can not reduce is his divorce settlement. He still has years to go before he is done paying his settlement.

HH,

I have been EXACTLY where you are.  The last time I saw my wife, the girl I was married to for 10 years, was the summer of 2008.  She left to visit her family in Europe and it was the last time I ever saw her.  She came back a different person and it has been a long slow circling of the drain.  It is time to accept mental illness as a reality.  Please see if you can't get into the National Association of Mental Illness Family to Family training course.  It is free.  It is enlightening... . and you will meet other people who are going through situations similar to your own.  I can't say enough about the positive impact NAMI has been on my life and the lives of my daughters. 

Blaming, projecting, transference, repression... . it is an absolutely toxic environment that you are in.  I would also encourage you to find a specialist in BPD behaviors to act as your counselor.  An average therapist is not prepared to help you with this.  Remember that even most therapists won't take on BPD clients because they are either deceptive and wasting time or creating so much drama and emotional pain that the therapists themselves end up getting dragged into the toxic stew.  Most therapists I talked to had "read the books" but few had any working knowledge or clinical experience in dealing with a BPD.  I found an amazing expert who is himself a recovered BPD and he put all the pieces together for me... . it required some deep self-work, but after about 6 months I was on solid ground again... . it takes time.

If you were getting shot at on a battlefield, you would stop and take cover and assess.  This is where you are at.  Still processing the "what the heck is happening here?"  Shock, grief... . denial, sadness... . bargaining... . you're going to get all of it.  In many ways the death of a loved one is easier to process then a loss to mental illness.   It's in times like these that you need air support to keep you from getting over run.  Call the lawyer and get him to put some ordnance on target for you... . you have to man up and be a leader and that means that she has to face the consequences of her decisions... . even if you are cast in the role as badguy. 

I'm with FD here. You can spend it on the children as YOU see fit. Counseling, school later or something that is truly useful. You know she will not use it wisely. I am in the exact same position as you as far as the step-children are concerned and I can't even begin to imagine the pain you must be experiencing right now. I am so terribly sorry for that. You are their dad and there is nothing that can change that. I believe that they are old enough to know that and will find a way to maintain a relationship with you are come back to you when they are older. I really do hope that you can get some kind of visitation though. Please do not let her use them to financially destroy you with FOG. Keep yourself strong so that you can help them because you know she will not.

Please find a good lawyer and follow their advice as everyone here has already said. When I went through my divorce with my nonBPD ex I also let my emotions get the better of me and it cost me financially. Even though she was the one that cheated on me I was too emotionally distraught to make sound decisions. I wish I had contacted my lawyer sooner.

This the time to pull your head out of the FOG. I know you are hurting so badly right now and I feel terrible for you. The fact though is that she has made it very clear that she does not want to be with you. That is HER LOSS and you will feel so much better once you have accepted all of this. YOU being financially stable will put you in a better place to help YOUR children!

well problem is she also saying she doesnt want divorce now...

then after that she went to gyno and found out she has a mass and has to have tests... when it rains it pours

I am definitely in the FOG

my situation also. she solved "our" marital problems not by honesty and discussion (she wouldn't talk emotionally) but by deceit and bolting. she retained a lawyer, and then she didn't file. i had to wake up every day with the thought of the woman with whom i shared vows in someone else's life and bed and she expected me to wait for her to work out her feelings. she even talked about "retuning home" (the phrase she used). it was sordid, and the time came when i wouldn't wait. i filed, and i served. but hh, that's part of the disorder. she needs you to "abandon" her. but you must not think along her lines. what is best for you? have you talked to a lawyer yet? in my state there's 120 days between filing and having to serve. i used every day of that time. i needed it for my emotions to catch up with my reality (tho' still not quite there; in ways never will be). i could have withdrawn and refiled, gaining even more time. is that how it works in your state?


not yet you can't, but you will. it will take time but you have to realize now that what you feel in a year (or so) will be much more rational and you don't want to look back and (as others have noted) find yourself in a pickle of your own making. it's 8.5 months since my d-day and i am in bits and pieces accepting that there is no reasoning, that there could never be. the disorder always wins. oh you might be at fault for blowing up sometimes, lots of us have in the face of the insanity, but for your marital situation and her future situation you're not at fault, you can't be.


so you're aware of your situation. that's good. now, don't do anything. except talk to a lawyer.

also, what Eodmava said about finding a therapist with BPD experience (not knowledge, experience) is important. i was fortunate, the therapist i started with had actually worked with pwBPD ("two or three in a lifetime is about all you'd want" and spotted it in my wife. knowing that about my w will help inestimably when i really come out of my own FOG. it may help you if your hear it not from books or from us but from a specialist. seek one out.

Yet clearly she has no qualms over hurting you.  That is a vast difference.  Stop feeling you have to protect her while she's at the same time trying everything she can to destroy you.  Accept reality.  Permit yourself to Protect Yourself and Let Go and Move On.


Give yourself time to recover.  Not just weeks or months, probably a year or even longer.  No rush, meanwhile just take care of yourself and learn from past inexperience.  Time and distance will work wonders.


My Custody Evaluator is a child psychologist and wrote an excellent evaluation.  During one session he said he knew what it was like.  I triggered on that and bluntly responded, "No, you can't know like I do, you haven't lived it!"

In peer support you can find others who have literally walked in your shoes and survived.  Yes, we've got significant emotional scars but we've also become Survivors.  No longer Victims.  We may still be Targets, but not Victims.

Good stuff... Feel very similiar.  Yea, my wife was diagnosed with BPD about 6 months ago.  Before that she had been to countless psychiatrists and therapists getting diagnoses and treatment mainly for bipolar.  My psychiatrist told me that it sounded like BPD when I described her, but he wasnt in a position to diagnose her.  I checked in and then specifically searched for a doctor in the area that not only handled BPD but also worked with DBT.  Suprisingly not many in the DFW area.  I did find a psychologist and wife is going there, but not liking it

I honestly think that there is a major problem with our healthcare system with psychiatrists.  I am finding that this is particularly true for psychiatrists.  They have learned that they can churn out people on med visits that are easy and no longer doing any sort of therapy or actually taking time with their patients.  Fortunately, my psychiatrist is a bit older so he is a bit more old school, but seems that psychiatrists are just leaving it to psychologists to handle. 

My wife before me went through the public health system, what a nightmare.  I deal with alot of people from this system too in my business.  I notice that the doctors spend about 15 minutes with each patient a month and I have not seen any diagnosis for them besides schizophrenia or bipolar.  Then they pump them full of meds and expect that to do everything.

My wife currently has a psychiatrist, one in the high dollar area of town.  This lady has her diagnosed also as ADD and nothing about BPD.  She gives her 80 mg of Vyvanse a day (used to be 160 mg!), ambien, and adderol to use.  If you ask me, this is a major reason why her BPD is off the charts.  She is basically on heavy doses of amphetamines at all time

 

right, mine was given a bipolar diagnosis too, along with OCD. i've never seen either in her. i've seen mania, and BPD though i didn't know it. apparently, her therapist doesn't know it either.


crikey. can you meet with this psychiatrist? i don't know if she'd listen to you but you'd at least have told her.

To be fair, many professionals may not diagnose BPD since (1) the individual is often in Total Denial if it were to be stated and (2) in the past most insurances wouldn't pay for extended therapy since it was considered to be largely untreatable.  It's different now, there are therapies now such as DBT, but the person has to be willing to work at it, quite a few won't choose a path to recovery.

Also meds might help to reduce the extreme behaviors, but the underlying cause is still there.  It's not like Bi-polar which is primarily a hormone imbalance that meds can address, as I understand it.

My ex ran away with our two boys in 2007. It took a few weeks to find her. Actually, she filed to have me removed from the house and that is how she was located. Months later she wanted to reconcile. Days later she accused me of more nonsense. The roller coaster ride was not fun. Later she emptied everything ( I mean everything) from our house except a journal of hers which she left in the attic. It had 8 of the 9 criteria in it for BPD all in her handwriting. A SS ( her son from her first marriage) had a textbook from when she went to college. It was 870 pages in length. There were three pages on BPD. It was older and it had the DSM III criteria instead of the current DSM IV. The only three pages that were highlighted in that book were those three pages.

Today she still accuses me of all kinds of things. I only communicate through email. If we didn't have kids together she would not find me. I would have left the area years ago for peace. I haven't spoken to her in close to three years now. It never ends with the accusations. I accept it for what it is. She has chosen to live the way she lives.

That is a a good, but scary point you made about insurance companies not covering treatment.  I surely hope that doctors are not misdiagnosing because they are thinking about making a buck.  At same time, they are people like rest of us and you see all the pain management dispensers around.  Some are just out for a buck, besides, its expensive to be a doctor so they gotta earn a living i suppose

I know insurance doesnt cover my wife and her DBT treatment.  I wish it did.  Unfortunately, my job does not provide insurance so stuck with individual policies which means

a. the best individual polices grandfatherd in before Obamacare do not cover mental illness

b. I cannot find a doctor that does DBT that is NOT out of network with Obamacare's best policy.  Of course, the Obamacare out of network only covers 40% AFTER a $3000 seperate deductible and costs twice as much premium wise

One thing I have learned through all of this is that our country does not address mental health at all, and all the new plans which I hoped would help basically do nothing because nobody accepts them that is qualified or the costs of new plans exceed the old plans

... one thing through this all is while I do not know how sick I am, I have learned that I am sick.  I am either the monster she portrays me as or I am sick in that i believe alot of what she says or i put up with it.  I do not like either at all.  I do not understand why things changed so much.  I do not know how to leave knowing that she will not make it without me.  I do not know how to leave period without feeling evil and broken

Research homework:  Stockholm Syndrome.  Victims over time become enmeshed with their abductors.  You were emotionally abducted and manipulated.  Time and distance will help, so will counseling.

Dr Joe Carver, a clinical psychologist, has a website with excellent handouts (http://www.drjoecarver.com/3/miscellaneous2.htm).  One is about Losers, Users & Abusers.  Another is about the effects of Stockholm Syndrome.

i certainly sympathize, but from what i understand from the canadian posters here it's no different for them, at least. its a pretty bad situation all over.


a hard place to be. i wouldn't call being concerned for the welfare of another person, maybe even a little too much, "sick", and i wouldn't call being concerned for your own welfare "evil." it really is an illness. you didn't cause it and you can't cure it. she can't be held responsible for having the illness but she can be held responsible for not examining her own patterns and addressing them, and she certainly can be held responsible for abusing others, viz, you. quite obviously you're not a monster.

didnt even occur to me that it could be that...