BPDFamily.com

Don't know exactly where to post this.  It's not quite about co-parenting.  Anyway... .

My divorce became final 3 months ago.  ExH has asked about boundaries - can we still give each other massages, etc.  I have been firm, saying that's a bad idea.  But today he emailed and asked if he could have a hug when he picks the kids up.

We hug our friends, why not my ex?  On the other hand, does it let him know I'm ok with the cruel stuff he has done?  He is in counseling and the GOOD part of him wants to get better. 

But I feel like letting him walk all over me tells him that he can be cruel again and again (he has the kids a few days a month).  It could be taken as a sign of weakness perhaps. 

It's just a hug, but I'm wondering if I should say NO physical contact.  Yet I worry that saying 'no hug' may be too much for him.  We have always both been very into hugs.

I am comfortable with a hug, but not if it has implications. 

Ridiculous, huh?

The physical contact will encourage him. You are divorced. You aren't friends. Friends don't treat each other poorly. Allowing physical contact of any sort will cause you to not be firm with your boundaries.

I could comment on how people recover from a "normal" separation, and how people recover from a BPD separation... . but I don't think that is the point.

How he will react to the rejection is also not the point (although you may want to get back to that thought later!)

Do you *want* to give him a hug or not?

Dunno how to separate the fact that you are "comfortable with it" from the implications of it right now.

Are you really comfortable with it? You're here asking about it.

I wouldn't do it in your place. He's trying to find a door to start pushing boundaries. I'd keep that door shut tight!

Recently BPD/Nxh has been getting more friendly at exchanges and sometimes I sense that he is getting too close physically and I go back to my car or stay in my car.

Hugging someone is very personal and puts you in a vulnerable physical position.

I would say something like 'I think that we should have a friendly exchange, but I worry that it would send [the child] the wrong message if we are overly friendly with each other.' It's important that he and everyone knows you have moved on and it's a boundary to protect you physically and emotionally.

What if he hugs you for too long, puts his hand too low on your back, 'accidentally' kisses you, etc?

Exchanges should be cordial but not personal. Imagine a future situation where either of you have re-partnered and how it would feel if they were with you at the time of the exchange.

It's not about how he feels, it's how you feel. You need to put yourself and your child first.

'I think that we should have a friendly exchange, but I worry that it would send [the child] the wrong message if we are overly friendly with each other.'

Yeah, I have to figure out how to word my response carefully, however it is.

Some of you are right - I'd sooner not hug.  I don't see a  hug as a big deal, but yes, I am worried about the implications.

Hmmm.

Well, don't forget the tools from the "Staying" board.

Watch for invalidation--Using the word 'but' always makes things worse, and negates the part before it emotionally!

Can you use something like S.E.T. instead?

I think you have already decided *not* to hug... . but just for another perspective/added insight... .

One day you want to meet a nice, normal mate who respects you and treats you right... . imagine what that would look like if you *hug* your ex who has BPD and was so awful to you... .

The first thing that came to my mind was oh good god, that would make a new mate think maaaaaaybe the BPD's behavior "wasn't as bad as you claim" if you're willing to hug them... . I think that would rub me the wrong way for sure and make me wonder... .

I don't think that having hug from your ex is a good idea at all. He wants to begin the process of trying to control you like he once was able to... .

I think of a BPD-afflicted person as a door to door vacuum salesman. Once you let his foot in the door, ... . you have to listen to his crap until you get the urge to say, ... . "enough, ... . I'm not interested, get out of my house, I ain't buying your vacuum"

Giving or receiving a hug simply encourages him/her to try to get a little farther next time. The boundary is "automatically reset" to a different level. Then you have to start all over again with "boundary-re-establish-ing".

You have had a history with this person (romance, intimacy, etc) . The relationship has terminated (in the intimate way).  And now this relationship has ended the way that YOU desired it to... .

I know that if I gave my ex-wife a hug I would just melt.  My ex is quite attractive and well, adorable (physically speaking). If I was to "just hug" under the premise 'as friends', the process of her having control over me would begin all over again.

I do not want to go thru that again. Not a chance.

Alert! You've been probed ... . he's testing and they will ALWAYS continue testing to see if you are available to recycle.  Good thought on NOT hugging.  Just my 2 cents. 

Thanks, all.  Problem is, I don't want to *not* answer his email.  And I don't want to set him off.  He asked if we could "maybe" hug.  Maybe I should say maybe and leave it at that.  Just dunno.  Don't want to trigger him in any way.  I miss hugs but we all know why it's not a good idea.

Just playing devil's advocate a little.

We all know he's probing for chinks in your boundaries.  You are weighing how to respond to not set him off.  Be careful not to give in to fear of what will happen if you set a strong boundary.  Sometimes you just have to let people be mad and upset and set your boundary very strongly anyway.  Also, if you don't set strong boundaries now, later on it will be harder.  If he feels like your being wishy-washy, he'll could escalate his boundary probing and pushing.  More like very likely will.  The time to set strong boundaries with him post divorce is now.

My son graduated from 5th grade last spring, both I and his mother were there.  It was her parenting time and she invited me to join them and her friends for ice cream.  She criticized me for declining.  I couldn't see any benefit coming from joining them.  As it was, we had a slow-moving pending case where I was seeking majority parenting time.  Ex periodically would periodically try to guilt me and then rage at me.  Oh, and periodic allegations.  I didn't want to get involved in the recurring cycle more than I had to.

Yes, boundaries.  Don't feel pressured.  Step back and seek objectivity and perspective.

If your girls saw you hugging their dad, how do you think it would affect them?

*He* doesn't know why it's not a good idea... . and the odds of you convincing him that it isn't a good idea are terrible.

You can't stop him from being set off. That is why you are separated from him.

I don't see saying "maybe" as a good solution, as when you see him next, it turns into a yes or a no. You can't "maybe hug him".

For myself,  a "maybe" that turns out to be a "no" or a "maybe" that is really trying to be a more gentle "no" is worse than a simple "no".

Once you decide whether you will or you won't, my suggestion is to tell him as simply as you can... . and move on.

I put a question on here a few years ago about sending the kids dad and dad's family Christmas cards from the kids who were under 3 at the time.

I was told that I would struggle with a valid argument in court about being fearful of domestic violence on one hand, and courteously extending Christmas cards and best wishes on the other to the family I was afraid of.

I was at risk of giving BPD/Nxh ammunition to say he wasn't as bad as I said he was.

Set and maintain boundaries of no physical contact. You can be courteous and polite without hugging in my opinion.

I am struggling with BPD/Nxh ignoring my request for written communication with me and he persists in calling me to chat, and sending humorous text messages. He's also quit his job recently and has now taken up a position just a mile from where I work. I get the feeling I am being probed too.

Perhaps his fiance thinks it's we've got a good relationship now 

Be wary.

Thanks.  I made a vague reference to his question but moved on to other things, and he didn't bring it up.  We are meeting with his shrink this weekend, which I have to be careful of as well, but I think it may help rather than hurt.  I'm going to be super cautious about what I say.