BPDFamily.com

So, I have recently been pondering why I let my ex get in my head despite the  red-flags. The main reason is because she was just so damn attractive. I have read lots of reports from others about there ex's being extremely attractive. Why (or is there) a correlation b/t BPD and very attractive people? How does this come about if BPD starts an the enfant level?

My ex was by no means attractive.  In fact he was short, overweight, had no teeth, was balding and had a bright red face!  He was also much older than me.

Looks were certainly not the reason I was with him 

This is a recurring theme here... . mine is waifishly pretty. Looks great without makeup, and only marginally better when she wears it. I confess seeing her for the first time across a room elicited me approaching her. Despite being a pretty woman, and she certainly uses it when it suits her to reel her boy-toys in, her self-image is horrible. No matter how many times you validate it, it seems to go back to the initial rejection in intfancy. If your father rejects you, then certainly there must be something wrong with you (not sure how this dynamic plays out with borderline mothers).

This is why I always tell D22 mos "you're the cutest baby in the world that ever was, and ever will be made, forever!" and tell s4 he is the best son ever (even after I get mad at him and raise my voice). I want to make sure they know it now, so they won't go looking for that empty validation later. S4's already a girl magnet (they are both very mixed race, darn cute kids). It's going to be tough to navigate how to teach them to not derive their self-worth from their looks like their mother does in her BPD-way.

Hopefully they won't grow up with narc traits though :^)

Eyes of the beholder.

Looking deeper, what else do you see?

What else drew you in/kept you in other than appearance?

What other needs were you looking to get met?

Was the relationship only on the surface?

What other hooks were used? Which bait worked?

It's there charm , openness , there fairy tail love ... . They put you on a high with the way they first pay attention to you ... .

Mine was tall,blonde,big fake boobs,flat stomach and I mean flat and a perfect behind.No wonder I let her get away with stuff.She had five cosmetic surgeries in the 2 years I was with her.They are never happy with themselves so they go the extra mile.

I am a good looking guy (as are all of the men in my family) and it is something that i have struggled with ALOT over the years. It really is hard to explain, but I quickly realized her struggle was wayyyyyy different than mine. One million people could tell her one million times that she is the prettiest woman they have ever seen ( and legitly mean it) and she still would fell terrible about herself.

Mine is drop dead gorgeous.  Everywhere we go people have to always stop and complement her on how hot she is. Her response was that it was the makeup she was wearing or deflection some other way.

She was going on and on about getting fake boobs and I even went to a plastic surgeon with her.  When I told her we couldn't afford it, since my #1 priority was buying a house she lost it. She is getting thinner and thinner, but not by eating right or exercising.  She maybe has one meal a day and can go the whole day without eating or drinking anything.

My ex husband is average looking. He has beautiful eyes though. He is / was very vain. He is very overweight now with a double chin and a huge belly... ugh... .

It wasn't how he looked that attracted me, it was how he treated me. In the initial stages he was wonderful, made me feel great.

That's why I overlooked the obvious issues. Emotional instability, overreactions to minor things, reading negative things into simple statements. I just thought he was very passionate.

He isn't passionate, he's disordered, paranoid and unable to look at and own his behavior. In his world, everything bad that has happened to him is somebody else's fault. When in fact, it's his.

I was thinking about the first time he called me a slut. I was watching tv in the emergency room, I drove him there because his son was ill. The son's gf was there and we wiggled our eyebrows at each other when some hunky guy in a commercial came on the t.v. My ex looked at me and said "slut" and said he didn't want to sit next to me.

This was in the emergency room. Where I had just driven him at 10 o'clock at night so we could take care of his son.

Why I didn't leave then and never come back I still struggle with to this day. I could have avoided so much pain and anguish. I guess what I'm trying to articulate is this... . he treated me very well for a very short period of time. It was not worth it.

L

it seems like a common theme that BPD women are very attractive and men are usually "average". i noticed this before i started this thread and the thread seems to be showing the same thing.

it makes me curious... .

I will chime in here... . My ex gf was not outwardly exceptionally attractive when we met.  I found her beautiful anyway.    It was not her looks that drew me to her.  She has gorgeous eyes though.  When she asked to learn how to put on make up and did her hair she was pretty. 

She just never cared enough about herself to bother with those things which again didn't matter to me. 

It was how she made me feel that was so intoxicating!

It's because women fall in love differently than men do, LA.

I think men are very visual. Their eyes lock onto something they want (like my ex did with me) and they get it. The Casanova archetype. They pursue us, we love it, and we fall hard.

Men - and please this is just my simple opinion - love it when we love them and tell them they are wonderful. They are proud to have a woman like us on their arm and in their bed.


L

Yes, that's me. Certainly not a guy a woman would approach, for instance. She said she noticed me right away though. I have been told I am handsome by some women though. Personality goes a long way, I guess. I do have a physical, masculine prescence, and am very engaging in conversation (gee, I sound like I'm writing a personal add). We are mismatched in looks, however. Her previous bf was the guy l the girls wanted and he took advantage of it. The new guy, meh, nothing special, but he thinks he is. I'm not broken up about that aspect whatsoever. She chose me, and chose to stay with me and have kids (which everbody says are gorgeous). Maybe she thought on some level i'd be safe and not leave her like her handsome fella, who knows? Thoughts like that never crossed my mind. No matter how pretty someone is, they're the ugliest person in the world when they treat you badly. And that's what she became to me over the last year, a turn off. And she felt ugly because of that, so she found a narc. Overall, based on what she did, I find her absolutely disgusting at this point.

My uBPDexgf is gorgeous too, and I´ve also noticed that it´s common for women with BPD. I thought about it, and I think there´s a raw, pure, quality about them, because of the BPD, that they seem to be able to remain in an infant spontaneous mode, a mode that keeps them looking for immediate sources of pleasure, and that involves not only being witty and energetic, it also keeps them physically sharp, fit. Like cocaine addicts that are always "on top" and with sharp senses, a kind of attitude that makes them more aware of bodily postures, more attuned. The only problem, is that they don´t do it because they´re healthy, but because they have a narrow "set of tools", emotionally speaking, so it´s more out of illness than out of choice or mature development. Anyway, it makes them look good.

It may have to do also with the power they get out of looking good. Deep down, they know that´s how they can manipulate and keep someone interested, so they may protect that asset of theirs for power motives.

Also, when there are strong NPD traits, that makes them very picky, demanding, which makes them more attentive to their looks. Or maybe it´s just because of the high sensitivity which many have.

Anyway, I believe what you´re saying is true with many of them, and I believe it´s not a coincidence, it´s related to the very same complex emotional pattern that keeps them restless and empty inside.

Interesting topic, my BPBexgf is naturally very classically beautiful too, plus she knows how to milk it... . tilt of the head, curling her smile up at the corners of her mouth, pouting her lips. Then there's all the subtle things BPDs do to draw us in

I'm not buying the thought that BPD's are more attractive than non's.  I can only say that my uBPD/NPD ex gf was attractive to me in her own way.  I was certainly in to her and the physical chemistry was strong.  I now just started seeing an emotionally healthy woman who I'm very attracted to.  Beautiful on the outside and I'm seeing a lot of beauty on the inside so far.  Uniquely her own person with what appears to be little to no chaos in her life.  And, surprise, surprise!  We've discovered a great deal of chemistry between us.  I'm even surprised because I feared that I couldn't find the kind of chemistry I felt before.  Well, it's out there and without the craziness and BS!

Good for you Madison! Put a smile on my face :^)

My exBPDgf turned heads everywhere we went.  She was very into working out and taking care of herself.  She was a 41 year old with a body of a 20 year old and she knew it.  Yet she would fix her hair and look in the mirror every 5 minutes constantly, constantly putting on lip gloss and loved me taking pictures of her but ALWAYS had to zoom in on herself and inspect before I could keep the pic.  If she didn't like it, she deleted it and I had no say in the matter.

I was always very proud to be holding her hand and walking beside her.  Going on two month break up I am starting to realize just how much she scarred me emotionally.  Im doing better but still often just break out crying at the thought that this "dream woman" of mine who told me she loved me more than anyone and was going to be with me forever all of a sudden erased me from her life completely and could care less about me or my two children.   Still shell shocked on what was real and what wasn't of our year and half relationship.

When we had moved in together and within two months she was moving out I had made a comment to her that says it all and I had no clue what BPD even was back then.  I told her "you look in the mirror very often but you are beautiful on the outside, it's your inside that you have to work on".  She didn't like that.  She moved out on a Sunday and we were dating again by the Thursday.

I miss her but I know Im better off this was.

I do not believe looks has anything to do with it. I felt something with her, simply being in the room, that I have never felt before... It exceeded any memory that I am aware from my childhood.

Anyone near us felt the power of the two of us. We didn’t have to speak to each other for hours at a time, simply being in the same room was enough.


I have been thinking about this for about a day or so. Before reading this post. So I know my ex-wife, was a borderline... . connection was nothing over the top, second major emotional movement with a woman, was a friend of mine very attractive, classic borderline in every sense was not aware of it at the time, and then comes my ex gf NC for almost 4 months.

When I met her there was something happening in the world... . a bond was formed in a matter of hours, within a few days, we were hooked. I have never been so attracted to a person in my life. I have never longed for anyone, or anything in my life.

I have never felt so much pain from the loss of anything in my life. I was willing to serve her. I was willing at one point to do whatever she wanted me to. If I had a million dollars I would have bought her the world. I have been with more women in my life than I would like to say out loud, she stopped me in my tracks. It was her.

She was “hotter” when we first met, but even after putting on lots of weight, it had no effect on how I felt about her.

I am out of the fog, and I have accepted everything for what it is... that being said, I am starting to believe that there is more to this than simply having BPD, or being co dependent. I am not projecting meaning, because of all of the pain, and investment in this failed relationship, but out of three BPD women there was one that moved me more than anything in this life ever has. I will never let her know that. But there was something there. I know that I will never really get over this relationship, and I have a scar on my heart, and frankly my soul that will always be there. I have never known something to be so true in my life. The thing that bothers me the most about the experience is that time has stood still. I can be in the relationship pain in a moments notice as if it was yesterday. I feel the time, between her and I but the emotions I feel are timeless.

In my 39 years, I have never experienced anything like her. That being said, I objectively entertain the idea of what would happen if we were able to “tune” the dysfunctional parts of both disorders, and still maintain the overall intensity, can you imagine the power of that relationship. However that would be like trying to control the power of the sun.

I remember before dating her, no one came close to my attraction to her, and I have been dating since, and again no one comes close.

I have never had feelings that came close to “our” experience. I am sad that the experience itself has to be based on dysfunction.

Whats my final point, if you date 3 borderlines, what makes one of them out of the three like crack cocaine…... That to me is beyond the disorder, and that is something that I do not see covered on this site. Why out of 3, do you sync / bond more than the others? The funniest thing I have learned since being out of the FOG, is her an I didn’t have anything at all in common, she liked things that I could never get into, but simply being near each other was enough. We would rush from wherever we were to get back to each other.

There is no clinical correlation of activeness and BPD.  This really boils down to personal preference and what characteristics a person values over other characteristics.   It's not to say attraction doesn't play into picking mates.  It might be more of an issue of how much you value a pretty face over say something like emotional stability.  

Are there good looking people with BPD? Sure.  Are there average looking folks with BPD? Yep.

Since there seems to be confusion on the clinical parts of the disorder.  The common characteristics are listed here:


BPD clinical criteria is:
The manifestation of the disorder can "present" differently from person to person.  Some people may fall back on drugs to soothe, some may cut, some may engage in reckless sex... . While others don't.   Some may be angry and have episodes of anger and it's overt hostility and fighting while others passive aggressively leak out anger frequently.  

Each person with BPD, or BPD traits, is going to be unique in how they cope with the disorder.

I think we’re genetically programmed to gravitate toward a mate that both turns us on and convinces us they will be true.  And when someone comes on with the intensity of a BP -- we seem to lock-in fast, in every way.

Mine’s defiantly cute, but – ten years younger than me, with an MO of targeting older men, is she really that much better looking than women her own age?  If so, not much.  She couldn’t stand competition and went through women friends her age very quickly.  

I’d captured her beauty on film at my place once, beautiful backdrop & lighting with close-up shots.  When I gave her a set of prints all she could do was point out her perceived flaws!  She defiantly keys on imperfections …which after our ‘honeymoon’ phase ended, began focusing on me…

Damn I stopped at lip gloss. Hundred of times a day.

I wouldn't say my ex was a model but he is definitely attractive to women, it's difficult to explain why; to me it's his smile, his body, his smell, and a hard-to-describe mix of being both very masculine and very fragile at the same time 

I've never met a guy before him to whom I felt such a physical attraction and I still struggle with it everytime I meet him... .

I felt good having my ex on my arm. I felt like Cinderella at the ball - I had a very low opinion of my own looks so having a BF that was attractive was heaven. I felt attractive for once. I mirrored.

Now that I have been out of the relationship for almost 3 years I have my self worth back -- my ex is not all attractive to me - he is simply not at all compatible with what I want in a man.

My uBPD ex girlfriend is DROP DEAD GORGEOUS. We also had so much in common from likes/dislikes, health, family values etc…Only difference was she treated me like $hit 75% of the time so I was forced to leave her.

Lost tree are you sure you had the same values? 

Looking at family values and her behavior towards you?

Mine had/has similar values with regard to family, but I feel hers are more from cultural pressure. When she's good, she's good, but I saw her mistreat her family now and then, too, even her mother, whom she is closest to. After 4 years with children, those values broke down, and she's trying to regain her "lost childhood." Her mom saw it break down first. I thought it was a phase, but its the illness deep down. In the end, the mirror shattered. She stl tries to be a good mom when she's with the kids (she just texted me pics of them at a park... . looking fir my approval?). But someone who chose to destroy our family so she would only have to be a mom 1/2 time and a teenager the other half is definitely someone whose values are diametrically opposed to mine (add lying in the end, a new aspect I hadn't seen).

Maybe a lot of the less attractive BPDs are so socially unsuccessful they don't make it very far into the life of continuing drama we write about and read about here.

My BPDexgf was pretty. Not beautiful, but pretty. But there was some kind of special allure about her that registered with me instantly.

We often hear the BPD described as emotionally immature and childlike in a number of ways. Maybe subconsciously there is something about that childlike quality that penetrates us... . we feel as though there is a refreshing, enthusiastic, accessible uniqueness about them. They seem so non-threatening! They're the canvas we've wanted to paint on all our lives.

That smile. Those eyes. What a pair of lethal weapons! The two things I will always remember from Day One. Mix in generous amounts of idealization and mirroring and let the games begin!

Hi Green Mango,

Well…I'm pretty sure. At least when she was on her good behavior it seemed we shared the same values. And like Turkish said, I too saw my girlfriend mistreat her mother whom she is very close to on several occasions. I don't know what to make of it all in the end, it has certainly crushed me that... . 1. I was pushed hard enough to send her a break up letter, 2. That I have heard NOTHING from her or her parents, 3. It would appear that our breakup has caused her NO heartbreak what so ever…she is still posting on Twitter etc…like nothing happened.

Sad.

Hi lost tree, I think you can be sure it did. Her silence is her way of dealing with it, a dysfunctional coping mechanism. Denial in public telegraphs that, in my opinion.

My UDex was very, very attractive. She was a professional make up artist and model in Las Vegas. She fit allot of the criteria of Histrionic Personality Disorder. She dressed very seductively, talked very seductively, behaved in a provocative manner. She would always say things like "I want to look good for you, I want to be your arm candy, ect ect... . " I read allot of things on this forum that seem very histrionic but it rarely gets mentioned here. As we all know its a spectrum disorder so all the "Cluster B's" can overlap. I think a major facet of cluster B is "dressing" yourself up mentally and physically, its all part of their "mask."  Alot of them know they are shallow and need to "hooK" their next prey/host/source/supply in one way or another, one of the easiest ways to do that is to look great. I know as a man I overlooked ALOT of her red flags because she was so beautiful. Obviously that is my problem, and something I need to address, but we all succumb sometimes.

My ex was attractive, and had specific physical features I find beautiful (skin, cheekbones, style etc) but she wasn't a stunner. But I was still more attracted to her--IMMEDIATELY--than I have ever been to anyone else in my life. And it was at first sight, before I ever talked to her, became friends with her, or knew she had BPD. I've wondered what causes that feeling when you see someone from a distance and just KNOW they are going to play some huge role in your life. Cause in my experience that role has almost never been positive. 

Well, I have a theory, actually two, and both are dark but I will share and see what you guys think. My ex was very good looking--i hate admitting it but it is true. she dresses rather conservatively but stylishly. did not need makeup and rarely wore it (i think when she wore makeup it was when she was nervous). got attention and compliments all the time. i would actually have to convince her to wear dresses sometimes that showed off her body some as she was always anxious about it. but in plain jeans and a t shirt any guy or gal would could still tell she was extremely attractive.

so, my first theory is this -- yes pwBPD tend to be more attractive relatively speaking; perhaps more so for women with BPD in straight relationships with men. and, you probably won't like this, but i think this dynamic is common because it's easier to control people who aren't as physically attractive as you are. while not universally true let's think about how we see the role of physical attraction seems to be more important to straight men than women when selecting a partner. so if you are a really attractive BPD woman, and how a guy looks isn't super important to you, then the situation where you can get a guy infatuated with you quickly and control him is easy if in general you are out of his league in the looks department. so, i'm not saying here that a pwBPD is more attractive than the general public, but that it's possible that they get in r/s with people that aren't as good looking as them, relatively. so the "non" sees them as the most gorgeous thing ever, because in reality they don't get men/women usually this attractive to pay attention to them.

i saw this dynamic play out by the guy my ex got into a r/s with after me. she had this guy wrapped around her finger, he was texting/calling all the time. he was whooped from the start. i felt he probably couldn't believe someone this "hot" actually loved him. when i saw him (he helped her move out), it was crazy -- i don't want to be disrespectful to my fellow men, but my ex was just way, waaaay out of his league in the looks dept. before i even met him or knew what he looked like, when she would tell me how great he was and how much better he was than me, i told her the reason she was with him was because he was so easy to control and p-whipped and that she would tire of him and throw him away when she was done using him to hurt me and soothe herself. and this all came to light in a few months.

my second theory makes me shudder to think about... . but still something that's crossed my mind. and that is that i wonder if more attractive boys/girls are more likely to be the target of sexual abuse. thus leaving many highly attractive adults with emotional issues. ... . ?

My wife is certainly a very attractive woman; very classically beautiful (looks very similar to Audrey Hepburn, who she happens to be obsessed with), tall, thin, no need for lots of makeup.  You definitely feel like a rock star walking into a room with her.  She has that whole "quiet, mysterious" vibe as well... . but watch out, it's a trap! 

Without a doubt her looks attracted me to her - I would say that if I was going to describe my version of the "perfect woman" that my description would most definitely have come out sounding exactly like her looks-wise. 

At the risk of sounding conceited, I'm a good looking guy myself and we would always get compliments of how we looked together.  It was definitely an ego boost for me... . I had just come out of a marriage with my first wife who had left me for another man. 

My rule for future relationships... . be less concerned with her looks and be more concerned about her relationship with her father... .

I can empathise fully with all of these comments about attractiveness. In my case I had the reverse situation. I was the more attractive of the relationship, and to some, by quite a margin (this is not a chance to brag etc as you will shortly see), did this save me? A big NO, it made my life a living hell. The projections made were awful, I made her feel ugly, she would spend hours upon hours getting ready and if I did not compliment her fully she would rage uncontrollably, if I did compliment her she would say I was just like every other bloke after her body etc. This eventually led to all the facebook pictures of her posted up with an increasing amount of men liking her photos, saying how good she looked, her removing me as being in a relationship with her so more could comment freely, there was no win, if I said something I was jealous and she would tell me that people do find her attractive and how easily she could get another man etc.

On our final meeting she told me she has never felt so ugly as when she is with me. That cut so deep, it was all a complete fabrication in her head, but the jealousy plotlines were the absolute killers, they were made to make me feel unworthy, ugly, she said I walked around without a care in the world, how I loved myself etc, how I always looked in mirrors etc? And her parting shot with regards my looks was, that was the only thing that I had to hide my ugliness inside and soon they will fade away and you will be a left a sad lonely old man. So wrong was she about the way she viewed how I percieve myself - devastating stuff.

Goldylamont, I think that both of your ideas are well thought out and have a lot of merit.

These are possibilities we need to reflect on. Not exactly the stuff that happy days are made of. Clarity often comes with a price.

i am still working through my issues with attractiveness, and questioning how much merit i put into this quality. how as a man i may be selling myself short by waiting around for a woman of certain physical beauty before fully committing. it's not a simple thing to think about or overcome -- i'm not so vain that i would only be with a woman b/c she was 'hot' if i thought she was a bad person. the problem with my ex was that she met all the physical ideals i had, sure, but she also appeared to be very loving, very loyal and in love with me. in certain situations you could see a couple and wonder "how'd that happen?", but with us it felt natural and as if we complimented each other in many ways.

what i realize now is that my ex made me feel safe. Safe b/c i used to question whether i could be totally faithful in a long term r/s. not because i had wayward thoughts but only b/c i had so little experience with long term partners. my parents split when i was really young--i was too young to even remember it (so thankful for this) but i know in my 20's i was wondering if i was capable of leaving a r/s like my father had. well, so far i have proven to be a faithful man, not just in r/s with pwBPD but in serious r/s both before and after (i've had 4 long term r/s so far, xupbd was #3).

part of the allure of being with someone you find this physically attractive is definitely tied to your ego. it's thrilling to be with someone that you are confident looks on the outside how you feel about life on the inside. however, for me i realize that vanity was only part of the equation (albeit it was part of it). I realize I also felt "safe" because i didn't really have a wandering eye, didn't have the urge to be with other women. i was centered, settled, satisfied in many ways. and this is a very hard place for me to get to, so i'm reevaluating why this is so.

i had a year long r/s with a very attractive woman after my breakup with xBPD. but both being in our 30's we got to the point where we had to think about things long term... . a woman rightfully needs to think about and plan having children at some point, and i wasn't quite ready for this. so we are not together any more, but she was such a beautiful person, i still think about her with a smile. so i'm kind of in an interesting place now where i'm questioning how much physical attractiveness has to do in my decision making when choosing a mate and if this is serving my greater purpose in life as well as it should be. a super attractive person, who appears to be totally committed to you initially, is intoxicating though and what i feel is what is most painful to many of us... . when we find out this person just isn't who they made themselves out to be... .

Welcome back Goldy.

My replacement is also an unattractive fellow in comparison to my exUBPDgf(she would commonly reference him as UGLY while I was with her). Why he was chosen? Easy target. He was there whole time validating her(while she was devaluing me). He knew she was with me. That didn't stop him(careful what you ask for). She most likely couldn't get anyone else to fully validate her in entire NC period(she thought I would come crawling back, I haven't). So as time passed, the unattractive replacement with his "soothing words" all of a sudden looks like a prize meal to my exUBPDgf. And presto! He saves her from me. He is way out of his league with her. The mutual friend told me that "it was pure desperation move by her". He will learn how she really is(other side), once he triggers her.

goldylamont, I agree with both of those theories.

If you feel you are lucky to be with this beautiful woman who could have any man, she is more likely to be able to control you. My exBPDgf certainly was beautiful, a few photos of her are so like Scarlett Johansson its uncanny!

Also, as a child she was a gorgeous girl with long curly blonde hair & a baby doll face. She was serially molested by at least 2 men known to her family. I'm 100% sure this happened, not just "victim" stories to drum up sympathy. She's had vivid dreams about these events where I've woken her up from thrashing around on the bed & I've asked her about them, & she's told me in that half awake state where lying isnt possible. They've also been consistent, whereas lies never are the same.

However, there is a third theory. Perhaps due to damaged psyches, we downgrade our own looks & sell ourselves short, leaving us vulnerable to those who can instinctively pick up on this, as well as our greater empathy. So we are so grateful to be with a person whom we perceive to be out of our league. Two factors which a manipulative, hyper-perceptive pwBPD would seek out in a potential partner.

As an example, her sister (who has always hated my guts) once commented to her that "at least I have nice eyes". I may be towards the back of the line in the looks dept, but I have had enough compliments on my eyes to know they are one of my best features. When we got home she told me & asked to look at them, at which point she said "they're ok", not exactly a huge compliment . Also strange to say she loves me, yet this is the first time she's ever looked at my eyes? She's also never complimented me on anything, at all, ever. Perhaps a way to keep my self-esteem low & her control high?

I consider my stbxuBPDw To be attractive but I have friends that would say otherwise. I tend to go along with the third theory posted by NachaLuva

I agree, my ex didn't see how "gorgeous" I looked until we split up, now I am suddenly so very beautiful and hot  

He did give me compliments at times, but he would criticise my looks very often too.

That didn't really bother me, I know better than that but still it's not what you expect in a fresh relationship with a new love... .

he once told me had "chosen" me because I was allready older and not so attractive than his exes, just because he thought that would make me stay with him: at least he was honest with me  lol