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The picture is coming together.  It appears now that the reason that the GAL in our case has been defending all of BM's crazy behaviors (not returning the kids, not allowing DSD to do reunification therapy, not finishing the court-ordered counseling on time, etc) is because he believes that DSD has been sexually abused by DH.  There has been no outcry  Only BM's allegations to the GAL and DSD's therapist.  :)SD's therapist believes that DSD must be repressing the memories.

There is nothing true here at all.

So the GAL has been blocking the reunification for the past 16 months between DH and DSD based on this…a complete an utter lie.

The funny thing is that these accusers (the GAL, BPD mom, and DSD's therapist) are the ones who do not want to bring the accusation to light--their claim is that it would hurt DSD for it the memory to come to consciousness before she was ready (which is why they supposedly have not asked for an abuse investigation).  They did not alert the reunification therapist of the abuse, but in working with everyone the reunification therapist started getting suspicious and asked about it in veiled terms.  The reunification therapist sees no signs of abuse and believes that BPD mom is so merged with DSD that because she was sexually abused as a child, then DSD must have been, too.  And BPD mom has now convinced these professionals to save DSD from DH.

So now we are faced with if we want to bring this lie up in court or what.  :)SD is 17…there is not much time left (we have two younger kids to worry about, too, though).  

How do you know this - who told you what?

The reason I'm asking is because that might impact how you go about this.

Generally - and I'm neither an attorney, nor a psychologist or anything else with expertise - just someone who has been through some of this stuff - false accusations though not sexual - and who has met lots of others here who have also been falsely accused - generally I think it will be best to get things out on the table, for the court to see what exactly is going on.  That should not make things public - only the two parties, and your attorneys, and the professionals involved, and the judge will know what is said.  I don't know for sure but I doubt that SD17 and the younger kids will even know about it, unless there is a reason to inform SD17.  (And at 17 if she can't deal with it now I'm not sure she'll find it easier later.)

My thinking is, get it out in the open, exactly who has told exactly what to whom.  For example, it sounds like this is all coming from your DH's Ex.  She has told it to the GAL and to SD17's T.  If you can get that in front of the court, then the court can decide how best to research it and find out the truth.

Suppose, for example, that there is a way to put this in front of the court:

Dr. Reunification has stated to Mr. DH that both Dr. GAL has told Dr. Reunification that Mrs. Ex has accused Mr. DH of sexually abusing SD17.

Dr. Reunification has also stated that Dr. SD17'sT has told Dr. Reunification that Mrs. Ex has accused Mr. DH of sexually abusing SD17.

These are very serious accusations made by Mrs. Ex.  They are completely false and are not supported by any evidence.

We believe it is likely that Mrs. Ex has repeated these accusations to others including SD17.  We ask the court for the following:

* Immediately end contact between Mrs. Ex and SD17, until this issue has been investigated by the court and the court has found it to be in SD17's interest to have further contact with Mrs. Ex.

* Subpoena Dr. Reunification, Dr. SD17'sT, and Dr. GAL, and interview them to find out what each of them know about these accusations.

* Require Mrs. Ex to provide the court with any evidence she may have relating to these accusations.

* Take any other actions the court determines wise to determine the truth or falsehood of these accusations.

* Instruct Mrs. Ex not to repeat these accusations to anyone until the court has completed its investigation.

* Appoint a therapist for SD17 who can help her, to minimize the impact of these events, including any accusations Mrs. Ex may have made in her hearing.



In the meantime, you may want to find out about the law in your state.  Is it a crime for Mrs. Ex to falsely accuse DH of a crime?  (It probably is.)  And do you have recourse both in criminal court and in civil court;  that is, can Mrs. Ex be charged with a crime for making these accusations and can she also be sued in civil court?  (I think both those options are probably open to you.)

Don't be passive and defensive.  Go on offense, not by making accusations yourselves, but by bringing these false accusations to light and demanding that they be investigated and found to be false, and that Mrs. Ex be given consequences for making such serious false accusations.

One more option to consider:  Your lawyer might have a talk with the other lawyer, or write her an e-mail, stating, "It has come to our attention that Mrs. Ex has made serious false accusations against Mr. DH, including that he sexually abused SD17.  Please advise your client that making false accusations is a crime, and she can be held accountable in both civil court and criminal court.  In our state the maximum penalty for making false accusations, according to the State Revised Statutes item such-and-such, is up to X years in prison and a fine up to $X."  The other attorney will be ethically obligated to inform her client of what the law says about the matter, and that might make her less likely to repeat the accusations.

And one final thought:  In my case, what ended the false accusations and brought my wife's credibility down was depositions.  You can file a motion to have the other party deposed - questioned under oath by your attorney.  She can be asked anything that is relevant, and her answers are recorded.  Then you can investigate what she said, and you can inform the other party that if the case goes to trial you will put her on the stand and prove that she lied under oath when she was deposed.  It gives you "two bites of the apple" - get her story on record, under oath, then after some time to investigate and find evidence, she has to tell the same story again.  Her attorney will tell her, ":)on't lie under oath or you will make things much worse."  So she'll either have to lie under oath, which would be very risky for her - she would be committing a crime and it's likely she would be caught - or she'll have to admit she lied earlier, which will ruin her credibility (especially with her own attorney!) forever.

My wife made more than 40 false statements under oath when she was deposed.  Then we told her attorney, "If we go to trial we will prove that your client lied under oath.  You might want to advise her to settle."  We got a much better settlement than she had agreed to before.

First, DH and I were suspicious because BPD mom's ex-h and her dad and stepmom told us that she was telling them that DH had sexually abused DSD.  We didn't tell anyone because we didn't know what to do about it, but in the back of my mind, I DID wonder if that was why the GAL was so against us.

Then, Dr. Reunification (I like that nickname…lol) tried to work with all of the parties (BPD mom, the GAL, and DSD's therapist) and kept hitting a brick wall.  The GAL was even fighting her (and she was court appointed), and she couldn't figure out why.  She said it was the first time she had ever experienced a GAL pretty much not listening to ANYTHING she said and fighting every recommendation she made.  She started hypothesizing and then figured out, based on her knowledge of BPD and the weirdness going on.  She then said something to the GAL like, "I am thinking that BPD mom must have accused DH of doing something horrific to DSD, and you are all trying to protect DSD from her evil father.  The thing is, it's not true."  The GAL then asked Dr. Reunification ":)o you think that BPD mom believes it to be true?"  Dr. Reunification took that as an admission, albeit a veiled one, that there have been some SA accusations made.

The great news now is that BPD mom's ex, who heard these accusations, has agreed to testify for DH.  He said, "I will testify for you.  She is crazy…scary crazy."  He can testify as to her false allegations about the sexual abuse as well as many many other things.  When she finds out he is testifying at all, I am sure she will freak out, which will make her behavior more erratic.

We will definitely ask our lawyer about how is it a crime for the false allegations, etc.  We have no idea. 

Normally affidavits aren't allowed in courts, because "You can't cross-examine a piece of paper."  But they can have some use in some cases.

I wonder if you could get an affidavit from Ex's ex, where he would say what she told him - that DH did such-and-such.  Just that - "On approximately Date Ms. Ex told me that DH did such-and-such to SD17."  As many specifics as possible but no speculation - just exactly what she told him.

By submitting that to the court now, you would get the judge's attention, and support your requests - an investigation into the accusations, temporary suspension of Ex's contact with SD17, etc.

Shift the focus onto Ex's behavior - false accusations - shine a bright light on that subject and make sure the court understands that the accusations are false and that there is something (presumably psych disorder(s)) causing her to make them.

Emphasize the likely impact of these accusations on the kids - it's likely they have heard them and it's very harmful to them.

We have a court date next month.  BPD's ex has stated he will testify so no need for an affidavit.  I will keep you posted as to the attorney's strategy. 

Her allegation would explain why the first GAL report made no sense.  It still makes me mad, though, because he should have used some critical thinking skills instead of just believing that DSD had been abused.  That is just wrong on so many levels.

Can you also subpoena the other players - the GAL, SD17's T, and Dr. Reunification - specifically to tell what they know - that they have heard these accusations from Ex?

Make the whole focus on the next court date, "Ms. Ex is making false accusations."

Your lawyer should know the best way to do this - whether it's best to file stuff in advance so the judge will know what is coming (which probably means the other side will know too) or whether it can be done on that day - a surprise to the judge.  (My guess is it would not be wise to surprise the judge - everything should be filed in advance - but it's outside my experience or knowledge of the law and how things work where you live.)

For example, suppose you subpoena GAL.  You could ask him, "Please read the first paragraph of page 5 of your report."... . "Would you have written that if you had known that Ms. Ex's accusations were false?  Do you have any personal knowledge that Ms. Ex's accusations are true?  How did you come to the conclusion that those accusations are true?" etc.  It should be easy to make the point that the GAL foolishly believed the accusations and so his report is baloney.

More important is the impact on the kids.  Maybe you can find an expert who can testify as to the impact on kids when a parent makes accusations like this.  The court needs to base its decisions on data and testimony, not just opinions;  with the right information - there are tons of research on this subject - it should be easy for the court to rule that there be no more contact between Ex and the kids til the accusations are researched, she is diagnosed, and she has received the proper treatment (which will take years even if she cooperates).

My ex did similar.  She had always stated her stepfather came into her life when her mother and SF lived together when she was THREE years old.  Though ex had increasingly frequent rages before son was born, it was only after his birth when she started pulling away.  Back then I described it like ex could love us both and so she chose 'her' child.  After friends and family were driven away by per paranoid fears of child being abused, she started looking at me suspiciously.  It got really bad just after he turned THREE.  I called 911 about 6 months later and we separated soon thereafter.  Yes, son was still THREE years old then.  The same ages of mother and child can't be a coincidence.  (Ex had wanted a boy and now I know why, she would have identified her past too much with a baby girl.  The false allegations would have been basically the same but if we had a girl the professionals would have been expecting a typical child abuser of girls and not the, I assume, rarer boy abuser.  I guess it might have been easier to see I wasn't a pervert?  Me?  I had wanted a girl and looking back I'm thankful that didn't happen.)


(1) the truth needs the sunshine.  (2) What if years later DSD learns of the allegations, if she hasn't already, and there is no documentation that reveals Biomother was spinning stories?  (3) If allegations about DSD are left unaddressed it could affect parenting of the younger boys.  (4)  Aren't these professionals mandated reporters of abuse allegations?  It isn't for a GAL or therapist to decide, they have to turn it over the appropriate children services agency, don't they?  Oh, probably it has to be indicated by the child.  Sounds like they were smart enough not to pass on BPDex's claims but not smart enough to avoid overreaching.

It has always been said, it's astounding how emotionally convincing a pwBPD can be despite not having any facts beyond the emotionally compelling claims.

Let's hope BPD's ex doesn't recant or somehow get pressured into minimizing or denying his story.  Do you have anything documented in writing about it.  At the least then it would make changing his testimony by threats or pressuring less likely.

Part of the problem with the court process is that everyone gets pressure to settle and that usually means the deep issues end up being glossed over and often not even mentioned.  That's what happened in my case.  My ex never changed her MO in all these years, if anything she reduced the number and extent of false allegations.  But the temp order hearing were short and had standard schedule, mother majority, father minority.  The divorce decree was a settlement.  The change to my custody did have testimony for Change of Circumstances but ended in a GAL-structured settlement.  Only recently did the court make a decision after 17 months and two days in testimony.  Lo and behold mother was repeatedly warned to stop disparaging father in front of the child.  She had been doing it all along, it wasn't something new.  (And two months later someone made a child neglect complaint to CPS.  Wonder who... . )

yyyyyup

WOW YES!

My uBPDxw had me CONVINCED for years that she was beaten and raped by her boyfriend when I met her. She also had me CONVINCED that she was molested by her Dad and Brother (please don't remind me that sexual abuse is common in pwBPD, I know that). She now 18yrs later was so convincing that she had neighbors believing that I raped and physically abused her and physically abused my sons. She was so CONVINCING that she had family members believing I abused her and my boys.

It's scary when I remember her manipulating me with her stories. She is a very SICK person! The sad part is that she KNOWs what she is doing is wrong but she just can admit to the truth and will not accept that she has a problem and seek help for herself.

I may start a new thread. What is ROCK BOTTOM for a pwBPD.

You mean hit rock bottom and finally look up for a way to improve?  Many of us are still waiting for that... .

Besides being emotionally convincing, I think they are convincing because who on earth would make something like these huge allegations up?  I think it is so beyond most people's own repertoire of behaviors that they do not even consider it a possibility of another person's behavior--does that make sense?

Yes, DSD's therapist is a mandated reporter (not sure about the GAL)…she doesn't need an outcry from DSD; she is mandated to report if she has "reason to believe."  Her rationale is that reporting would be more harmful for DSD because it would bring it out into DSD's consciousness when she wasn't ready…but that reasoning does not fly at all with the law.

Dr. Reunification believes that the best course of action is to reveal to the GAL that we know and will reveal it in court.  Her hope is that then the GAL will start being more rational.  I am not sure that is a good idea.  I guess my biggest fear is that if we show them our cards (the GAL will most definitely let BPD mom know), BPD mom will escalate…perhaps even to the point of convincing DSD to lie for her, and that would be really really bad.  I don't want to underestimate BPD mom--she seems to have a lot of power over the kids.

Dr. Reunification also says that if we are going this route, we need to let DSD know about the accusations.  I have no idea how DSD17 will react to that…she may subconsciously get something is wrong with her mom, but she is far from acknowledging it out loud.  I think DSD finding out about what has been driving this whole 4 year battle will really rock her world.

I don't think any court of law will allow that to stand up. In most states (all?) professionals are legally bound to report cases of sexual abuse. For BPD mom and the GAL and therapist to NOT report it could backfire against them. I agree with Matt. Shine a big light on it. There is also a good chance that BPD mom has either hinted at it or outright confirmed it to your step daughter. So having it dealt with in court will give her something to counter balance the lies. She doesn't have to know about the proceedings, but at least there will be a transcript she can look at if she ever wants to understand this when she reaches adulthood.

"... . so beyond most people's behaviors they do not even consider it a possibility... . " - yes, I think you are right about that, and it's a big problem for us ("us" meaning those who are falsely accused).

Read things in the media and see reports on TV - and stories in movies even - the "normal" view is that when someone says "My husband did such-and-such" that it's presumed to be true.  In fact we know that, when accusations are made during or after a divorce - and when custody is an issue - they are false about as often as they are true.  It is a mistake to assume either way.  But that means this very destructive and immoral behavior -false accusations - which most people would never even consider doing, is really pretty common.  Hard to accept (and the media make it harder by rarely presenting even the possibility that accusations might be false).

About Dr. Reunification's suggestions - they seem pretty good to me - worth talking about more with him to see if there is an approach both he and you feel good about.

One thing to consider is maybe to meet with SD17, DH and Dr. R, and together disclose to her some of the reality of what is going on - that these accusations have been made and that the implications are very serious - either DH has done some things that are very wrong and illegal, or Ex has made some false accusations.  Let Dr. R take the lead.  Work with him in advance to understand the best way to do this - how to be most helpful to SD17.  And also look for ways to document - for example, take notes exactly what is said, and then ask or subpoena Dr. R to testify - so that the net result will be to solidly establish that these accusations are false and are harmful to SD17.

One more comment... .

How this all plays out probably won't make any difference for custody of SD17, because she will be an adult soon, and she can then decide for herself how much time to spend with each parent.

But it will be critical for custody of the younger kids.  Either their father is dangerous and they should not be around him without supervision, or their mother is dangerous and they should not be around her without supervision.  It's probably in the kids' interest, as well as SD17's interest, to establish once and for all whether the accusations are supported with evidence or not.

This is similar to something that came up at the very beginning of my divorce. My lawyer said that if I characterized N/BPDx as a raging alcoholic who abused S12, the judge would want to know why I didn't do anything for 10 years.

Not reporting it, not acting on it, not trying to stop it -- it can call into question the ability of the accusing parent to make good decisions. The judge may want to know why, if BPD mom thought there was sexual abuse, she did nothing about it. Even if she said it was to protect SD17 from re-living the trauma, why would she not try to protect the younger kids?

It looks bad for her no matter how it plays out. The question is how to do it without making things miserable for SD17.

Perhaps an integral part of this is for father and T to tell SD17 about the allegations and the implications as appropriate for her. Then follow up with reassurance that Sd17 isn't at fault for this and father has support he needs to deal with it. SD17 is best to go be a 17 yr old girl and not engage with her mom or dad about the subject outside the guidance of professional help.

truth plus reassurance she's loved, father has her best interest at heart, and it keeps her out of the middle of the nastiness.

We are still considering this…the one thing that Dr. Reunification is trying to figure out is how much will this shake DSD17 up.  Seriously, she is in some pretty big denial about how messed up her BPD mom is…realizing that her BPD mom has accused her dad of this may really really rock her world.

My daughter is 17 and loves her mom, and knows she has BPD.  She's very bright, mature and strong - I don't know if every 17-year-old girl could deal with it.

Maybe you all could talk - you, Dad and SD's therapist, and maybe Dr. R too - and figure out the best way to handle it.  My gut tells me the sooner SD knows the truth, the better, but exactly when and how to tell her is very important.

SD's therapist has been kicked off the case…she was not supportive of DH and DSD's relationship because she BELIEVES the abuse allegations still.  The GAL still does, too. 

Fortunately, Dr. R does not.

I think DSD is pretty bright, but I have noticed that she is pretty immature…still plays with dolls when she is about to go to her mom's house…is really enmeshed with her BPD mom.  I am hoping Dr. R knows the best way to deal with it.  Then I wonder about if we let the boys know. 

It's just a hot mess.

When did your DD find out that her mom had BPD?  My dd knows her dad has bipolar disorder, and I really think that knowledge has helped her love him and not take his screw-ups so personally. 

I told each of the kids, when they were asking questions that really couldn't be answered any other way.  I think my D17 was probably about 15 when I told her, and having some trouble with her mom - the same things her older brother and I had encountered (but maybe less because her mom thinks men and boys are bad and girls are good) - complaints, blame, endless fussing over little things.

I needed D17 to understand that her mom's behavior has nothing to do with her - it's driven by her mom's issues and nothing D17 does will fix it or make her mom act better.  She treats D17 very well most of the time, but at that time they were together way too much - her mom lives in a remote place so when the kids were there they were pretty much trapped in a little apartment with her all the time.  I wanted D17 to know she couldn't do anything about it but it wasn't a reflection on her, just a fact of life.

Now she has a car and more freedom, so she can spend more time with friends and here - she's not trapped with her mom so much - and things are better.