BPDFamily.com

That is a generalized topic there, but specifically

My wife has graduated college with an Art Degree and she feels we do not have the money for her to start a studio (uh, yea, but I do not say that), and she does not want to teach.  As a result she does not use her degree.  She instead has been cleaning houses past couple of months and making great money $900 a week or so, but her body is killing her now and she does not think she can take it much more.  She feels she is an intellectual now and that it is wasteful being a "laborer" as she puts it.  I keep telling her that laboring does not make you unsuccessful, but she has no meaning. 

Now days she hates everything and every one.  She feels depressed constantly, and cannot find any direction to her life.  One day its sucking it up and teaching, another cleaning, another law school, another masters program, another who knows.  It it though constantly, demaning me and being emotionally abusive.  It is

a. you have no direction to your (speaking to me) future.  I do not know, but while I cannot say 5 years from now what I will be making, I can say I am in the 95 percentile of Americans now. 

b. I hate your family and my kids and I will never see them.  They are ruining our lives

c. I hate our house and everything about it

d. I hate you working so much

e. I hate you and your hobbies

f. I hate that you can sleep and I cannot

g. I hate that you can do something and act like nothing is wrong

h. I hate my car (not that old... 2008)

i. I hate my family

j. the kids are a mess, or the kids blame me for all thats wrong

Just a litany of problems and blaming me for everything.  I live in absolute terror... I am not exagerrating when I use that word... of each call she makes, each text she makes, conversation at home, and even sleeping because she will get mad if I fall asleep and she doesnt.  She wakes me up about every night venting on that.

This has gone on for months.  I honestly thing I may have PTSD from it.  I have shakes, nightmares, constant fear, and despite what therapists tell me is real... questioning everything about myself and who I am and what is reality around me because she sees things so differently

Is it possible this is all just because she feels she has no direction in life and feels guilt and depressed over it?

She is in therapy, and hates it.  she cannot feel what the therapist is trying to tell her to feel and do.  She feels that couples therapy is ganging up on her.

I honestly feel 90% of our problems are in her head, but you cannot say that to a spouse when you are working at it.  I certainly will do what the therapist says, but I am not getting the same feedback she gives me.  I want to be a better person and husband.

What can I do?  I am using tools from here validating, SET, etc, but its not getting anywhere

Did she grow up with a parent who had those thought and behavior patterns? 

Her mother is bitter at everyone, but is certainly not somebody who has to keep filling a hole with stuff.  She lives her life frugally and has a yearly trip, works a decent but not great job.  I do not think she is married to somebody she is in love with, but she gets by.  She can be a bit nasty, but does not have near the hostility towards everyone my wife does

One thing my wife also fails to see is that if somebody is a threat to her, how she maybe lead to that point

For instances, my wife hates my mother.  She thinks she is selfish, nosy, and a bad person.  Recently my mother called her and was a bit nasty with her over me and on Christmas Eve my mother was calm but told her to not hurt me...

My wife was calm and cool and good in those situations, my mom had crossed a line, but I do not think evil...

a week early I had gone to my parents in middle of night after my wife had been physically abusive towards me and gave me a black eye and wanted a suicide pact.  On Christmas Eve, when they had small words, my wife told my sister "who isnt your mother mad at"  My sister told my mother two texted my wife to please lets all get along.  My wife asked to speak with her telling her to mind her own business and tha resulted in my mother overstepping and telling her to keep her hands off me.

The night my mom texted... my wife through me out of the house, after I had taken my xanax for sleep.  She then called my stepdad after threatening me and he told my mother who was out with a friend drinking wine.  My mother got overly defense and I told hers she was wrong, but my wife does not seem to understand that none of these things were completely unprovoked

I mean in the past, my wife has made me miss by birthday party at my mothers cause she was out drinking with another man behind my back and I had to go get her.  She demanded i quit working in my families business to my mother then got upset when mom accepted resignation...   My wife was upset because my mother brought her granddaughter to my wife's graduation which seemed innocent enough

I just do not understand the anger.

Saturday night we had a nice night and went to her friend's bday party.  the next morning, we went to brunch which she wanted.  I skipped Church to take her.  Shrimp were not quite to her liking and all the sudden it became she cannot stand my presence...

She wanted me gone.  Then was upset I didnt comfort her which I tried.  Whole nightmare

I am sorry that your spouse is so unstable. I was in your shoes for many years, and I know it is very hard to get free from the abuse. I even followed the advice on the board and tried to improve the relationship, but things just got worse and I finally had to remove myself from the marriage in order to save me.

My counselor at the time had me make a list of pros and cons for staying. Also a list of my spouse's good behaviors and bad behaviors in chronological order, much like keeping a log or journal. Its a real eye opener to see that in black and white.

yea if i do that I know how it will read.  My wife I can honestly say does not bring anything 99% of the time.  When she is stable, the 1%, she is everything I could want, well not financial help any, but emotionally, mentally, friend, everything.  So i just keep seeing if I can somehow mitigate the unstable times.  The next problem is she has me so messed up in the head now that I do not know what is me and what is not.  Doctors, friends, family all say it is not me, but she knows me better than anyone. So maybe she knows me better and I am messed up.

I just do not know

I think there is an element of a frustrated sense of entitlement. The disorder comes with living in the now with immediate rewards,. Realistic long term planning to achieve goals is hard. This breeds frustration and resentment. Whole or nothing thinking leads to if something sucks, everything sucks. This is addressed by blaming everyone and everything around them (projection).

If you try to Justify and defend these issues that just adds substance to it, and her focus is then on the 'war ' to prove she is right, you are wrong.

This depresses you and she will mirror this back with interest as you are stealing her role of victim. Every victim needs a persecutor. You are the nearest, so thats you.

It is important not to engage in negativity, including trying to prove she is wrong to feel that way.

That is so true, you can not argue with a BPD peson, it only escalates their BS.

Also, know that there is nothing wrong with you.

Repeat... . there is nothing wrong with you.

Are you willing to spend the rest of your life with only 1% of what you need in a spouse?

Regardless of the cause and the mechanics of it. Depression is a serious issue, hence the high suicide rate of pwBPD. It can be addressed and is not necessarily the way it always will be. It is often just one end of the swing of extreme emotions.

If you can keep yourself out of it then wallowing in self pity will not be as fruitful.

the hard part is to defend your own good natured actions while not attacking.  They see you trying to rationally justify your actions as something you were trying to do for the good of them as an attack even

I just cannot see how to get around that.  You are right though, arguing is impossible.  It just feeds the rage.

The other weird thing is how it can swing from a level of Hitler hating Jews to love like a love story within an hour.  Yea, they can do that, but they expect us to also.  I mean, I never have as much hate as her... really none at all.  Just some frustration.  The problem is the swing back to everything great and i am still shell shocked by the verbal abuse

You are trying to find a logical reason for behaviors that are often illogical.  Sure, it's possible she can feel that she's not using her degree and creativity (that depresses a lot of us) but ask yourself:  If she had a studio tomorrow and was free to paint, or do something else, would she stop the abusive behavior, stop isolating you from your loved ones, etc?

She probably does have depression, but definitely other things (like BPD, as you know).  Maybe she can do a little art-related stuff, maybe enter competitions or start a website to show her drawings or whatever it is, just baby steps.  Most people do not make a good living at their art but they find a way to be creative and maybe sometimes that can lead to something.  

I think if she was doing more things she liked, sure, it would give her good direction and perhaps make her a little happier with herself.  But the behavior you write about is extreme and very damaging.  You tend to minimize it.  Why should you live in fear of falling asleep before she does?  :)o you criticize her if SHE falls asleep first?

No one should treat another person like that.  I know you love her and want her to get better.  Just don't minimize the behavior or think it's you.  It's not fair what you are going thru.  Maybe she could take an art class or something (although you both have no money) or some of the things I suggested above, and maybe her shrink has ideas.  But she is leading you to think that there are logical reasons for her illogical behavior.  As you yourself noted, each day she changes what direction she wants to go in.

My mother is mentally ill and she spent our whole lives saying she's be happy if we moved to a new town, if we did this or that.  It may help but it's not a full answer.

"So maybe she knows me better and I am messed up."

Boy, emotional abusers really are good at making people believe they are the cause of the problem! 

I'm sure you are not perfect.  Hell, you may have done some bad things.  But you don't deserve this.  Honestly.

You are probably codependent and kinda messed up because she is skewing your sense of reality.  It's not your fault.

That particular behavior would blow me away every time! Almost like a split personality, and then suddenly they get amnesia and appear to have no idea they just behaved like a fire breathing dragon and spewed a very abusive rage at you.

You are left traumatized while they act like they did nothing wrong, and they expect you to act like they did nothing wrong.

Its just crazy!  and the sad part is, it will make you crazy... .

The strange thing is...

I never knew this was out there like it was until now

I read that about 8% of people are BPD.  That is alot of people.  You would think people who know more about those around them, but I suppose BPD keep it quiet outside of family to a degree

That has bothered me too.  Also, we went to two marriage therapists who never suggested it, even tho it should have been obvious.  If I had known about it when I met my husband, I could have known what to expect.  Instead I found out after he had a meltdown one weekend and I had to file a restraining order.  A shame.  But sometimes it can't really make a diff anyway.  I wish there was good medicine for it.

It seems to be a kept family secret for most, out of embarrassment usually. At first I would try to tell people how my BPD spouse was acting at home, and no one believed it. They would insist that human beings just don't act that way!

Well some do when they are mentally ill, but the general population has never seen or dealt with this behavior so its easy to understand how they can't comprehend it.

This site is wonderful in that it validates what you and others who deal with that type of disorder have gone through. You are not alone, and its not all in your mind, as your BPD person would have you believe.

It is a little known and recognized form of mental illness. Unless you have been through it if someone told you they were experiencing it. You would have no idea what they meant, and would probably forget what it was called the next day.

It is common to varying degrees, though I expect most sufferers, and those around them, never get a diagnosis or even hear about it, but just continue to have dysfunctional lives without ever really knowing why.

My PD radar now picks up the traits everywhere these days. It prevents me being over reactive with people who are easily triggered.

HH,

Your posts made me cry, and reading everyone's responses help boost be back to the now.

My BPDw states sge is in the midst of a deep depression such that she wants to remain confined to the bed to sleep .  Right now in our lives we don't have the time for her to do this.

But arguing with them gets nowhere.  Yeah it's not the same inflammatory blame and violent fire-spurting (think Godzilla) that we are used to, that we tolerate. 

this is the crying perpertually over their realization of the relationship difficulties.

Personally I am holding my own boundaries, as small as they may be. 

I took my kids out at 7:30 am today to work on the vegetable garden.  In our pajamas!  She finally came out of bed to see our progress by 9 am.

I also set up my daughter's art desk in the basement and showed it to my daughter.  I got a nice smile. 

It took me longer than I would have wanted, but now I am out of the house and at work, and she understands she must take care of the children and feed them dinner.

That's about all I have for a goal today.

Oh, maybe I will go back to the couch to sleep since she is so restless: felt like I was a pothole being constantly repaved last night.

Take it in little increments.  It helps keep me sane.

Yea... last Wednesday we were looking pretty bad... so the new norm.  Then suddenly, she wanted me to go to a concert she told me not to earlier in the day.  We got along great, and got along the next day.

Friday she had to go to Europe with her parents for 8 days.  They thought it would be a good graduation present (well they paid about half, and didnt tell me until they gave her the present I had to pay for half).  I would be watching kids the next week and taking care of everything while they are gone.

Friday went well enough... She was flying so not much from her over there and the kids were fine.  I had a nightmare at work to deal with but still got it all handled.

Saturday, things got a bit awkward.  I had instructions to take the youngest to boy scouts and drop him off for a 4 hour deal.  then i would head to work for a couple of hours and get a bunch of stuff done around the house witht he oldest still there.  Well, turns out I was supposed to actually supervise this whole thing at Scouts.  I was irritated that nobody told me ahead of time so I could prepare.  Stil wife was nice about it and apologized for her father who is the one that pushes all this scout stuff that they hate sometimes.  I let them have friends over which their mom would have not liked and had a sleepover. 

Sunday, got worse... same thing at scouts... went over... and instead of dropping off they told me again i needed to supervise whole thing for 4 hours in the cold.  Was not pleasant and i had their friends still at home witht he oldest and alot of stuff to get done... to make matters worse, wife was over there and her father fainted and was complaining about breathing problems and neck/back pain.  So they were all worried about being in Europe and him having a heart attack.  The trip is suddenly not going so well...

I hear today that she is fighting with them.  They are telling her where she has to sit, where and when she can and cannot use the restaurant and then even telling her what to drink. Her sister accuses her of taking some stamps and immediately pounces on her stuff rummaging through it over.

She is hating it now, and its telling me alot of why she is so angry and way she is.  It also worries me she is going to come back worse because of the stress and their demanding personalities.  My wife is 33 years old and being treated like a 5 year old.  I mean they are over there and controlling my life with kids on different levels!

Makes me feel sick now.  She constantly texting cause she upset from them.  that cant help phone bill... .

I have some events next week I have been looking forward too for months.  i have a feeling they will be torched by her when she gets back.  I am guessing a possible final blow up in next couple of weeks

I notice when she is gone there is alot of stuff to handle, but no real feeling of fear in me.  I do get it when she calls or texts though

Hurthusband

How much of this drama with her family is as one sided as she makes out? It sounds like my partner with her family. They are controlling and my partner likes to be the victim, and so the same scenario plays out with them being together even after a few hours.

To watch it is an education with her constantly provoking controlling behavior. Almost like a kid provoking a dog to bark, then running to mum.

By complaining to you she is putting you in the role of rescuer, hence not letting you out of her virtual sight (abandonment issues). This means you dont get a real break either.

If I am away from my partner she is always on the phone complaining about somebody who is doing her wrong, or some ailment. I am required to be her 'helpline', she can't function without that anchor line in my absence.

I am sorry that you are not getting any recovery time while she is gone.

I would also get calls all hours of the day and night when mine was on a trip, just to make sure I doing what I was suppose to be doing.

You'll have to stop following their demands, it sounds like their whole family is dysfunctional at best. I know there will be hell to pay when she gets back, but you have to protect your sanity!

HH, Waverider and gang:

So much truth, so much hurt. 

Interesting views are coming out about the FOO of the adult pwBPD.  They do control their children. 

I have another example of bad grandparents doing all the wrong things in front of my kids:

Last spring, it was agreed at the last minute that my in laws would fly in to our town and drive the wife and kids on a spring break cruise. Both to and from. I stayed home to work.

Well things eroded in the car.  In about 6 hours I started getting phone calls and texts as the complaining and blaming began.

Because of the all the arguing I had to find them a separate hotel than the grandparents .  I had to arrange for long term parking since the original plan was to fly.

The "confines" of the ship (3000 + people) did nothing to relax the parties: it only got worse and I heard about it whenever she was close enough to email or call. 

It got so bad, that upon disembarkation my inlaws refused to drive my wife and my kids back to our home (as agreed upon).  So there I was rescuing them, leaving work, taking a taxi to the airport to fly to a close airport, sleep over at a cousin's apt and then get dropped off at a neutral meeting point to pick up my wife and kids so I could drive them the 14 hrs back home.  Real classy grandparenting if you ask me.

Now that my wife is in the depression, her Dad is flying out (without the Mom) to be here.  On the one hand it may be good, but he has been acting like a counselor including his naming me as part of the problem with my wife. 

For peacekeeping sake I am not responding back.  He is not my T.

The current crisis I think is an adverse reaction to meds that has her uncontrollably crying and asking to be taken to a hospital. 

I do think I am part of the problem, but as I learn here from the community, it is our job to learn, stand up and grow.  It is proving to be very slow and difficult process.


So for tonight's boundary in the maelstrom, I got to spend some alone time with my oldest S9.  We played rummy in the kitchen.  Tomorrow he is going to get braces.  So we enjoyed a big box of Milk Duds, our favorite, and I explained to him they won't be part of his food groups for a while.  But he was happy to hear avacados and snow caps are just fine.

Four hours in the cold?  I am so sorry.  They are really walking all over you, controlling your time even while they are gone.  But I am glad you get to breathe for 8 days.

I hope you do get to take a little pleasure in this time off from arguing.  Hope the kids are enjoying it too.

You're a good person for doing the scout stuff.  I hope you get to do the activities you're looking forward to.  And I hope she doesn't come back even worse.  Seems like predicting that sort of things is pointless in the end.

Hang in there HH!

When it comes to dysfunctional FOO, the best thing is to stay outr of it. The interactions are complex and everyone's input is detrimental at many levels with layers of provocation and projection happening. They will be a lot of reactionary mirroring to. Sticking your nose in is like adding fresh meat to recipe.

Your wife may simply be the weakest link in a damaged chain

Since she has these weaknesses, AND an art degree, AND presumably an "artistic temperament," I suggest that her working as a charwoman will not work out in the long run. It really does feel demeaning when I put myself in her shoes. It doesn't matter that she makes good money at it. She will resent you for it and you will pay through the nose.

Understandably, you don't have the resources right now to set her up in her own studio. In addition, she doesn't want to teach art. That's too bad, because it's one of the things artists can do to keep afloat. I have several friends who went to art school. Here are some of the other options they have tried:

1) desk-top publishing; doing layout on the computer for people who need various kinds of documents and/or graphics.

2) art therapy. Similar to teaching art but less competitive.

3) administrative assistant in an "artsy" setting, such as an art gallery.

These may not pay as much as cleaning houses/buildings, but janitorial work is bound to make her symptoms worse. For someone with an art degree, this would be very depressing.

Hope she at least comes back from Europe refreshed by her travels, if not by the company and the behavior cycles.

She went ahead and got a BFA instead of just a BA so she is specialized in ceramics, but she does not like doing pottery, only ceramic sculpture.  She hates teaching in all forms cause she just does not like people that much which is what drew her to cleaning originally.  She could clean and nboody bother her.  As far as desktop publishing, most of the art people I been around do not like it unless they are actually in that field.  glass blowers, ceramics, sculpture people all seem to prefer to have their hands on something and like my wife do not like desktop publishing. 

She would also view administrative assistant as a downgrade... .

My wife before me was not used to nicer things before me.  She was raised in a working class, low income home that moved up to middle class.  I was raised in an upper class household with way more than somebody should have.  When we first got together, I had just graduated college and was just starting my career, but I had money saved, was good with money, and it was just me so I could take her to do the things that I knew and was used to growing up

... but as time went on she got used to things and as my pay increased, her spending increased at a faster rate.  Eventually, I just could not suppor the lifestyle I grew up with, so I tapered back, but she does not seem to be able to.  while she will shop at Kohl's I cannot just get her a gift at Neiman's... it has to be certain brands that are acceptable at Neiman's.  She does not like anything but luxury vehicles that are only a couple of years old...

Basically, she will not be happy unless she is an artist who does not have to talk to people and can make 6 figures.  I do not think that is a realistic goal.  I do not think ANY artist at some point in their career did not have to play the politics of the art world

There seems to an element of entitlement. Do you think there any traits of narcissism?

Has she tried selling her work on Etsy?

there is a bit of that now.  Certainly grown some.  At same time, she breaks down and feels that she is a failure in every way and not worthy of anything so I think its all something to do with BPD still

one thing interesting is that she is HATING her travel to Europe with her parents. She is ready to just buy a flight back today early.  Her family is driving her nuts.

for instance.  last night she got back to her room and found her sister laying in bed.  My wife's version fo story is

Wife asks sister "you look like you feel sick"

Sister replies"my ear is killing me".  they are on Alps right now so we all can see why

Wife replies "I am sorry, is there anything I can go and get you or do for you"

Sister replies "you can start by shutting the hit up"

that basically sums up how her sister has been conversing with her the whole time.  Meanwhile parents are springing crap on them at the last minute and trash talking everyone they see.

My wife keeps saying how they are mean miserable people.  I do not say "well, thats basically how you are", but I am guessing she has to be thinking that... "am i like that"  I mean she grew up in the household

maybe it opens her eyes that things are not so bad in her own home.  Plus while she has been gone I have worked, taken care of kids, 3 scout events, had front door installed on house along with other doors, gotten her car fixed, etc all by myself

Yes, she does do that some.  She mainly does ceramic wall peices though.  She does not like the wheel nor pottery very much.  She prefers ceramic sculpture.  Some are 500 lbs and contain 3,000 seperate pieces that hang so the downside is shipping can be quite dangerous on a number of items and even more costly than the piece itself which kind of hurts it on Etsy.

Basically if she did pottery ceramics or she did some other art like painting, or glass it would be more feasible...

Not that i would tell her, but she found about the most isolated/specialized form of art that is feasible for transport, for customer base, cost ($1000 in materials alone I have seen on peices), etc that makes it difficult.

There are many people who are willing to help her with contacts in the art community, but with lack of wanting to even talk to people... not out of shyness... . makes it hard to market/sell anything period.  My wife is not shy at all, but people piss her off.  Small things such as even the way they chew food will make her incredibly agitated.  Simply asking "how was your day?" she might find agitating for some reason

It doesn't sound like a probable outcome to me either.

However, this is simply what she is demanding of you and the world... . her capacity to be happy is a different thing entirely!

It also isn't your job to tell her this. She will figure it out at her own pace, probably better than if you tried to tell her.

Let go of her problems, validate that she is hurting WITHOUT trying to solve her problems (unless they are ones you can easily and simply solve, unlike this!)

You may need to enforce boundaries based on your combined income; this may go best by separating your finances as much as you can.

If she had 6 figures and a great art career, do you think it would stop the behavior?

She'd find a million other things to make her sad.  It's mental illness.

The way she treats you is not normal or okay.

You only think it is acceptable in your life because that is what you are accustomed to.  momtara has it right, it is not OK.

if she had 6 figures... it would be better, but not fair.  Money does not buy happiness, but with enough money you can pay problems to go away to a degree.  Now does that mean she just will keep increasing how much she wants... possibly

Well, yesterday things really got bad... .   As you know my wife is in Europe with her self centered parents, and a sister that each day is becoming more and more beligerent.

They go to some restaurant in Lucerne and my wife claims her sister was trying to basically bully them all around to walk 5 miles back to the hotel in the rain in 28 degree weather while her father 5 days ago collapsed walking 1 mile in the middle of the road with back/neck pain and completely disoriented at 70 years old and overweight.  My wife had brought a phone charger that worked over there and her sister then after dinner takes the charger refusing to let my wife use it to call her kids, along with more verbal abuse.  They had been drinking and my wife told her she was a miserable person and thats why she was alone.  Her sister put her fingers in her ears and chanted.  So you all know, my wife sister is 31... not 8.  Anyways my wife goes to the bar downstairs and her mother comes up and when asked for help with sister, the mother refuses to help.  Wife then goes off on her explaining that it hurts when they make fun of her having an art degree and no job.  That her sister is bullying her.  That she has an art degree and on a trip that was supposed to be for her graduation, they refuse to go to even one art museum in Europe.  She explains that she is not the only one sick in the family, but she is the only one getting therapy and the only one that is labeled as crazy by them.

Whole explosion... . of course, then the conversation is while I am at a job, and she gets angry with me cause she thinks I am judging her then.  She then says she is going to fly to Amsterdam and never come home and hangs up.  No clue what to do.  She will not answer calls.  I text that I am helpless and in the dark and I dont know if I should call her parents.  She gets mad and beligerent.  Mad I am not home, but I am dropping off her car to get repaired for her.  She then says she is flying home and get her a plane ticket... we both admit it is probably over between us... .   With a tax bill of $12500 due April 15th, no money in the bank, mortgage due on the first, I charge a $2500 plane ticket for her home...

This supposed gift her parents got her has cost me about $5000 and she did not even have a good time, and it was money I did not have...

I feel hopless.  Kids saw me broken last night.  Uncontrollably crying.  What do I do?  their mom is in another country with people that she is scared of, deserved or not, and doesnt speak the language or have money.  Do i tell her to tough it out?  The scenario is spinning massively out of control... she would only have to stay 48 hours more.  She said she just could not stand to be by her sister any longer.

I told her everything she described about her sister is what she was doing to me at that moment and everything she does all the time to me.

I really tried hard this week... i single handedly... took care of kids, got doors put in the house, volunteered 6 hours at Boy Scouts, worked a job that required 50 hours a week at least, had the kids a sleep over, cleaned, laundry, handled car repairs, and more with nobody... . nobody... wife wasnt around, her family wasnt around...

No real appreciation... no time for myself... I do not see the point of any of this.  Why work harder than anyone else I know, why stress myself out, why do nothing for myself, all for not only no appreciation but hate or another problem of somebody elses to fix?

Is this my wife's fault even this time?  Is it her family's? 

a. I could see my wife percieving all this as their fault and she is just being difficult... I see that with me

b. Her parents have basically been unreasonable and trying to control me.  Setting up the trip, scouting stuff, and everything else without even talking to me.  Basically throwing me under the bus

c. My wife's sister says their mom is verbally abusive to their father

d. Her sister has no friends, no boyfriends in forever, and is miserable

My wife is the only one in therapy.   She had to develop BPD from some influence from family.  It certainly seems reasonable she is the victim this time.  While I can put up with it how I can, I cannot imaging most others would besides us here on these forums, so maybe she is the victim and she had to be helped...

I just do not know... Sunday is coming up... something I really wanted to do is going on this Sunday, but every Sunday (the one day I get off) is the same.  Massive arguments and complete hell

Wow. Too much to deal with.

Getting her a plane ticket home is the only thing you can do. She can go home on the new ticket or on her original return, her choice.

You can't save her from her family at this distance. You can listen to her and support her, but that doesn't mean you should listen when she screams at you, or drop things at work that could lose you your job.

Hang in there! 

Oh yeah... . one other thought for you: Your wife's family is behaving in an emotionally toxic way toward you, and not helpful for your wife.

You have no power to change them.

You don't have much influence on your wife to protect her from them.

You can minimize your contact with them. It sounds like they are already helping you do that, and that is probably your best action anyway.

yea she on her way home... i just am tired of the constant nuclear meltdown situations and dealing with them.  it is killing me...

should i have left her there?

I do not know.  I do not want to be selfish but I do not know what to do

now she is talking about how she ruined her parents trip and she should pay for the whole thing... which means me pay for it all including them

how is this family all about themselves and draining emotionally, financially, mentally... to please themselves?

she keeps saying that she going to pay me back for the trip... what does that mean?  I consider what I make as our money... so is what she makes not our money?  I do not keep tabs on what my wife owes me... i guess what mine is hers and what hers is hers

I can totally relate. Whatever I make is shared, but my wife's considerable savings is off the table because she is a SAH mom and she doesn't "replenish her account" (even though she does a couple things on the side to make a little money. She is going to pay for most of the down payment on our next house, but I'm guessing only because I don't have enough to do that in my account. When I suggested that she help pay for our vacation we just took, she brought it up multiple times how I was being selfish.

My situation isn't nearly as bad as yours, but I can kind of relate to where they are entitled to your money and you not to theirs.

"she should pay for the whole thing... which means me pay for it all including them"

Please don't give them or her any more extra money - once you do it one time, they just ask for more and more because they know they can manipulate you.  You will wind up in debt and if she decides to get a divorce or make a false charge against you or something else, you'll be broke to defend yourself.

I know what you are doing - you are sidestepping blame over and over.  You don't want to give her any ammo to use against you.  I understand.  You do everything right.  But in the end, it just takes more and more tiptoeing and tapdancing.

If you pay money for the trip or give her more money, it will just hurt her kids, and you, because you won't have money for other important things.  Be firm from the beginning and then you will not be manipulated.

Remember... . boundaries.

You are a great husband and dad.

Maybe you can do a quick adoption of the kids now while she is depending on you.    If you two do get divorced, try not to give her any child support unless she lets you have some visitation. 

Yes, that family all needs therapy, in a big way.

Maybe your wife's therapist can see them all one day.

I just feel wiped out mentally... .   Really been going an extra mile to try and get stuff done.  I am amazed I can keep up with what I am doing, but was getting it done this week... Then this... it was like a tsunami.  I feel disoriented literally now.  Things seem out of focus, spots, everything was for not or not enough.

I have no clue how she is going to get through next few weeks and as an extension myself.

I just want it all to stop... EVERYTHING.  I do not want do anymore. 

We've all lived it, sometimes for weeks, months - it's lucky I don't have a disability, because I dealt with a nutty husband while taking care of a newborn.  It is kind of a miracle you can do it all, but you can. 

What's happening in a few weeks?  Is there any relief in sight?  (Too bad her family won't all stay in Europe.) 

Just be firm about not giving more money. 

I agree--giving her family money because she "ruined" their vacation isn't going to make any peace if you do it--it will only make you poorer and set a baaaaad precedent.

All I can suggest is try to remember that you don't have to believe her crap... . and you don't have to convince her that it is crap!

Hang in there!

Poor HH. She was demanding that you fund her early ticket back from Europe because she cannot stand to be with her FOO any longer? At that point in the conversation I would develop a faulty connection. What? Sorry, I cannot hear you at all! Bye!

Her sister may have been doing you a favor by swiping her recharger. She put herself there and she is on her own. As you said of her sister, she is not 8.

I am dealing with the annual tax bill myself, due April 15th. When I was single I got a refund for being Head of Household with two kids. Now, our combined incomes place us into the Alternative Minimum Tax bracket. No more Child Credit and many other deductions, including my mortgage interest and considerable unreimbursed professional expenses, are gone. I paid the whole bill last year of $7K (in addition to the amounts withheld from our paychecks); he agreed to handle this year. He makes 80% of what I make and I pay all my kids' expenses. Well, he only has about $2K and I have to put up the remaining $5K. I have it, but it means no long-distance summer vacation and no saving toward my kids' college education. Aarrgghh! Today was our fourth anniversary. Every year my savings account gets lower.

Funny how we get into paying for things to make problems go away.  I paid for our whole wedding cuz he said he couldn't afford one, paid everything for both of our kids, and I mean everything.  And of course, paid for my divorce. 

yea... she got home last night...

I saw it coming but...

a. picked her up in the truck because she was unexpectedly coming home early I had her vehicle in the shop.  She was angry that it was tight space

b. got home and some mail was in the mailbox... angry over that

c. first thing was inspect all the doors put in.  All doors in and operating perfectly.  One door did not line up perfectly with how tile was laid below, but its literally lined up with wall... from what I can tell the problem is the flooring that was installed and that was not installed straight by off a slight angle. grade which caused a slant up to the door

d. just mean and nasty to me the whole time after I just spent $2500 to get her back home and spent $4k on a trip that was supposed to be a gift from her parents.  Nevermind I was the one who supported her through college.  Yea, she cleans some, but if that adds up to $10k a year I would be a bit shocked and I can certainly tell you alot of that is NOT going to the family but being spent for herself

finally had it... i exploded... kids were even there.  They know whats going on and when she would turn her back would pat me on the back saying "im sorry, its not your fault".  I told her she is acting just like her sister.  I slammed the door and left.   Totally inappropriate around kids, but the abuse.  Finally came back in, she asked kids to step outside and let me have it.  I told her that when she needed help I was there to help.  The car, doors, everything were taken care of to a degree and I had no help with any of it and did the best I could with no help.  She of course says its not her problem.  I tell her that she had to spend 5 days being verbally abused and treated like hit and she couldnt handle it.  She told me I had no clue what it was like.  I told her "I know perfectly well what it is like. I have spent the past 9 months with it coming from you."  She kept on... she couldnt compliment me on one single thing I did while she was gone, or the fact I got her home on a last minute flight when we are broke and I owe so much in taxes because SHE wanted to claim a different way this way to get HER a better house.  She went on how marriage is over.  I told her "you killed our marriage and you pretty much killed me"

I couldnt handle it anymore.  I would have drove off and left, but we are down to one car with other in the shop. 

When I was making $10 an hour I was good enough with money to still put away $20k within  2 years time and cover my expenses.  Since we are together, with $60k I would spend probably $75k a year cause she ndeded more.  With $80k it was $90k, with $100k a year I am spending $125k a year.  She is never statisfied.  Financially, I am ruined cause of her.  I could get out of the hole eventually without her... yea... but even worse is that there is no thanks, no kindness, no nothing... its always your a piece of hit and "you can never understand the hell I live through"

Are these people that walled off and self centered?  Of course, we understand their hell

Not only do we have the same problems and difficulties of normal people, the BPD makes sure we feel and suffer the same hell they are going through.  If anything, we suffer a worse hell than they do.

O, and to make matters worse, she let one of our kids use her ipad.  Now, of course, her iphone backs up all its data to the cloud which the ipad also picks up.  One thing it picked up that our kid found was about the abortion last year because she got angry with me and screenshotted a nasty text about how the abortion was my fault and it got saved to the cloud.  So we got to explain that to him yesterday.

Honestly, I do not think it affects him that much, but to my wife... there is no subject more painful than that... .

Sounds like you said what you had to say.  Like a typical BPD person, she will react angrily now, but will think about it later and realize it's right, even if she can't come to terms with it.  Who knows, maybe it will help.  Please do keep a tape recorder, if only for your own peace of mind, in case she makes an allegation or just says thinks that aren't true. 

The worst aspect of this grind is that you don't get a respite. not like a professional carer, you don't get to knock off, go home and live some normality, and then come back and work on the issues afresh in the moment. You are chained to the escalation train.

When you do make a stand it is usually on the last straw rather than the real issue

Why do we feel so helplessly responsible for taking care of these partners? Hoping they will get better, but most never get better, they get worse over time.

I worry that you have built up so much resentment it could have a serious impact on your mental & physical health.  Non's can develop all kinds of health issues when dealing with the abusive emotional roller coaster their BPD partners present. I know that from experience. Since getting away from the person who inflicted such misery, my health has never been better and life is good and fair and peaceful.

Bless you HH, go for peace and happiness.

What makes me angry is her family.  They shouldn't be taking any money from you for that trip.  It was a 'gift' for your wife.  Make sure you reiterate that, even if she thinks she ruined the trip.   It was her gift and her right.

Things got better last night but then this morning while nice it was jabs at I shouldnt be working Saturdays... .

Yea, I do not want to work 6 days a week, but if you need more money to pay more bills... you have no choice.  Its not the worst thing in the world.

Especially saying it after you had to get a $2500 plane ticket home because you couldnt handle two more days with your family...

well, exactly.  you can't win.  hope you at least got a thank you for the plane ticket!

What would have happened if you simply did not have, and couldn't raise the money for those plane tickets?

She knows you can, so she put you in that position, so what will be different next time she wants to throw a tanty and get you to mop up after her?

She is putting you in the role of rescuer, and you are taking it. She has the perfect actors for the role of persecutors. This cements her position of justified victim. What is going to change these dynamics?

Even though she dumps on her family to you, it is just as likely she dumps on you to her family. This makes it harder for you and her family to be indifferent towards each other. The dynamics of the triangle are in place. It is hard to escape from that, but that is your first objective, even if she accuses you of being non supportive

That is exactly what I was going to suggest to him, Wave. That he put up a boundary around bailing her out for her own choices, especially involving her FOO.

Hurthusband 

You appear to have Welcome written across your forehead, dude.

The family messed up the vacation... . They should suck up the cost.

It sounds like they all reverted to their unhappy familial roles, the moment they embarked on their trip... . Bossy parents and sibling rivalry. These are not people who have learned to accept each other as individuals and rub along. They all want it their own way, or there is Hell to pay.

I'm struggling to understand that A) as a nasty husband and father, you allowed her to go away with her family and took care of the kids. B) You got constant earache whilst she was away and then had to pay for the trip, that wasn't your idea In the first place, or mess up?

I bought a second-hand, but never worn pair of boots last month, for £7.50

I was screamed at in front of my children for being selfish and putting their needs behind mine. I haven't bought myself new shoes for four years. He thinks I'm narcissistic. My feet hurt in my old boots.

I took my children away for one night, to escape the fights, years ago and he still believes that I had group sex whilst we were gone. One night away, in 12 years, at the time.

Depression is horrid ( many of us who have lived through the turmoil can vouch for that ) Being kind and gentle, loving and supportive, is an admirable and wonderful gift from you to her, but you need to draw the line somewhere and allow her to feel the consequences of her choices. Nobody makes improvements if they don't have to pick up the price of their mistakes.

I totally agree. From what I have read on this site and on the Stop Walking On Eggshells book, it is good to let BPD's bump into a few walls from time to time. It acts as a type of course corrector. Otherwise they can feel like they can just run roughshod over you and other people.

Yea, i was going to tell her to tough it out but then I thought of something...

She is literally stuck with 2 BPDs in her face at all times who do not have any treatment at all in a foreign country with a step father who is ready to keel over and die at any time. 

I am with one BPD and am ready for life to end at any moment... .   She is mentally damaged and stuck in that scenario for another couple of days?  I couldnt even handle that.  I think its only cause of strength from God that I can tolerate her with therapy.  Id jump off a cliff if I had two there

That made me think that it was not BPD causes her to ask me to rescue her, but that even a non-BPD would need a rescue out of that situation.  There is no doubt in my mind her mother and sister are BPD, but with no treatment.

So I am not so sure it was me giving in there, but usually, yea I still have sucker across my forehead

I shouldnt be surprised.  Last year for her bday, her sister gave her half a lawn mower, and informed her both halves would be at her house if she needed her present to mow the lawn.

Past few days have been nice.  She certainly seems appreciative and maybe its a wake up call that how her parents were to her is how she has been to me.  Maybe she realizes it to a degree and seems to be more mellow.  She even let me do some things I wanted to yesterday for like 6 hours!  That hasnt happened in maybe a year

I am not going to bet on it, but who knows.  Also, her parents have STILL not even checked on her.  Her sister got back Saturday and sent a text if she was alive.

I dunno about you, but if my child had disappeared in middle of the night and I woke up with no clue where they were or the other daughter said she took a plane home, I would be terrified for them even if they were a troll. 

It was interesting too because I found out that her sister had trashed talked me too telling my wife "yea when you husband said he was having a hard time pleasing you and was concerned you might hurt yourself, I told him he knew what he was getting into and it was his job as a husband to make you happy no matter what".  Even my wife thought that was hited up.  Also, wife also found out the whole time her sister was going behind her back trying to sabotage her with her parents saying things.

This year holidays I think will be lonely...

"maybe its a wake up call"

Oh, so many times I have thought that.  That would be rational.  But she is mentally ill.   "Moments of clarity" are typical, but they don't go on forever.  Still, I think you did something heroic and it will stick in her mind, even if it doesn't cure her.

I thought about your situation today and thought of how you have to set firm boundaries without being mean - that's the only way you'll get to do some of what you want to be happy.  Once you start backtracking, she steps all over you.  I am so glad you got to do the thing you wanted to do on Sunday, that you were worried she would not let you do.  But what if she had given you a guilt trip, accused you of cheating on her during the activity, or something else?  You can follow the validating but firmness, saying something like:

"I can understand you enjoy having me around, but just like everyone else, occasionally I want to pursue hobbies and interests, and it is important to me to enjoy the event tomorrow, which I had been looking forward to for months, so that's what I'm doing."

Something about the whole situation makes me wonder how much of it was a matter of perception on your wife's part. It seems like there were a lot of accusations of people that could have been 'misinterpretations' of what was going on. No doubt that interactions with family are difficult; I know my husband's interactions with his family often result in his imbalance emotionally.

If her family are BPD then they always have been and no doubt these sort of dynamics have always been happening. Yet your wife still went. there would have been many wake up calls in the past. Then when the clouds blow away, those wake calls are forgotten and the cycle starts again. How are you going to stop cycling through this again? and again?

Everything that is reported to have been said between them needs to be taken with a pinch of salt as it has gone though multiple BPD filters, and twisted each time.

eg your wife says something twisted, her sister hears it and interprets it twisted further. Then repeats a more twisted version to the mother. Who hears her own spin and then spews it back twisted further onto your wife. Of course all this twisted reactive behavior bears no resemblance to what you wife originally meant. She reacts by dumping a knee jerk response back on sis. Everything continues to bounce around the family triangle, becoming more and more crazy. Eventually your wife calls on you as rescuer and unloads another self pitying version on you.

Do you believe you will get anything that resembles a reliable and unbiased tale? If you then  get involved at some stage your wife will throw back her version of your "support" back at her family, you have now unwittingly joined the crazy dance.

Sometimes a pwBPD can maintain toxic relationships almost like a form of deliberate self harm. No one can invalidate my partner as well as her own mother, any contact causes stress, yet she is addicted to calling her everyday, often several times a day. They drive each other nuts

my wife never wanted to go with them.  I must say that.  She hated to have to go.  She knew it was going to be a problem, she just did not know to this extreme.

I know that the whole group is completely whacko.  I have no doubt that her family is as crazy as they seem because they basically rode right over my boundaries and set all sorts of obligations for me to handle with this trip without consulting me

Mental illness is all over her family.  Her second cousin found out her husband was cheating on her with a 14 year old student and killed herself AND HER KIDS!

Her grandmother uncontrollably cries for no reason and its mean constantly.  I have been with my wife 11 years and I have never once seen her mother say "I love you" or hug her.  I have never once heard her mother say she was proud of her.  When I told her parents she attempted suicide, THEY DID NOTHING.  They did not even call to check on her or call me to see what was going on as I drove her to the hospital.  I understand being tired of drama and not wanting to feed into it, but they could have called me to check in.

Her sister did in fact tell me that I just have to deal with her and that I have to make it work, I have no choice.  That is crazy.  Her sister also lives alone and at the age of 31 has 0 friends nor bf nor kids.  Her past 3 boyfriends consisted of a homosexual man (I have nothing against being gay... my brother is... but as a boyfriend if you are a girl?), a physically abusive guy, and the last one I liked ok but something was off cause his kid was so messed up he literally physically assaulted several teachers and was kicked out of school at the age of 7.

The whole group is crazy.  I do not doubt that.  I do not doubt my wife overexaggerrated things.  Oddly enough, my wife has no anger towards them really towards her parents.  She feels guilt over parents and possibly messing up their trip.  It very well might have messed up their trip which I understand, but I do not feel guilty she did it to them

They have not attempted any help with me with her.  They have in fact loaded more BS on me and made things more difficult.  This graduation of a trip for my wife consisted of not one art museum in Europe for somebody who got her degree in Art.  The truth is this whole thing looked like a disaster waiting to happen, but she felt guilty since they booked the trip and paid without asking or else she would have declined.  The whole trip was really an excuse for them to make their usual trip and do what they want while also seeming like they cared about her graduating.  Just like every other thing they do.  Gifts that belong to both her and them, things for kids that kids do not want to do but that they do... .

I guess you could say while I am hurt and my wife has basically abused me... that is on her and I should leave over it.  She had no chance to become anything else in a household with them.  They knowlingly messed up everything for all.  (Did i mention that these same people took her father's life insurance policy and spent it on the step fathers business venture when she was a child rather than giving to her at 18 which were the instructions?)

Neither here nor there. I believe this story of hers to a degree.  The clarity she has right now, I have no clue if it will last.  I would not bet on it.  I am not betting we are together 4 months from now.  I do know that making things harder on me was not just my wife, but a group effort from her family too

her family is cruel and sick.  spending her inheritance on a business?  no wonder she and her sister are messed up.  it is hard to grow up without real love from a parent, and in fact, having parents who used her.  I have sympathy for her.  I don't think that means you have to subject yourself to abuse, but I understand how you feel about her.  while you are staying, you do need to set clear boundaries. 

I'd say her family sounds toxic. In your shoes, I'd avoid them when I could politely... . and seriously debate with myself how much I'd be willing to 'politely' put up with.

I'd also let your wife have her own r/s with them as she wants to. If asked about how bad an idea things like this trip are, I'd lightly suggest against them or ask questions to help her clarify her situation for herself.

And I'd start working on boundaries with your wife. Verbal/emotional abuse is a good one to start with. The tools and lessons here *do* improve your situation if you work at them.

Hang in there! At least  you are having a brief improved period to catch your breath.

 GK

Man you have red flags waving everywhere, no wonder its all so messed up.

Wow.  Reading your story was looking into my future.

My uBPDso and I have been dating since 2011.  Her mom, dad and sister sounds exactly like your wife’s.  Exactly.  They controlling and never tell their daughter that they love or are proud of her.  They treat her like a child and I see this sort of thing happening down the line in MY FUTURE. 

I am committed but your story did raise a lot of red flags.  I will protect myself from them and not get so emotionally involved when they argue. 

I hope your situation improves.  I am too learning about boundaries for myself.

The fortunate thing is that we do not do much with them.  My wife really does not have any desire to go see them or anything.  This trip was mainly cause they forked over $4k on the trip and even though she didnt want to go with them, she still felt it rude to not go and let their money be wasted.  Now, it  would be their own fault, but even thought he gesture seemed to really be about them getting a trip as they normally take, they have never invited her along before

The really weird part is that with her kids they are pretty loving and kind.  Now that does not mean that they do not plan stuff for kids without consulting and then swooping into to control things, but I have noticed that is something most grandparents do and you have to set boundaries.  These people being crazy do it a little more than most.  Being that the kids are both my step kids and these not my parents, I am at a bit of a loss on being the one to set the boundaries with them as those two things can be brought up.  I am the outsider

I get along with her parents fine, but I get along with pretty much everyone.  Bad personalities do not bother me outside of narcissistic ones, but I can work with those.  Honestly, being around her parents gives me chuckles.  I laugh in my head at some of the stuff they do...

For a chuckle on these forums.  Her father is obsessed with winning things on contests.  He wins so much that he literally cannot call some radio stations because he is on the list of too soon on winning.  Doesnt matter what it is... .   Metallic tickets, Garth Brooks tickets, movie, food, sporting events (he doesnt like sports)... ANYTHING.  The funny part is that he really has no interest in any of the prizes.  In fact, he met his wife (my wife's mother) on a call in radio blind date deal (while he was still married)!

He will literally drive grocery to grocery using coupons that he spends all Sunday clipping.  He probably spends all his savings in gas.  I have nothing against being frugal, but this is waaaay overboard.

My wife's sister texted her asking if she wanted some milk from this timeshare dairy cow she has.  They all acted like nothing happened on the trip... my wife admits to finally exploding on her sister... telling them they are all mentally ill and that she is the only one in therapy.  They act like nothing happened.

Its weird

"In fact, he met his wife (my wife's mother) on a call in radio blind date deal (while he was still married)!"

Oh lord.

Maybe they are nice to the grandkids because the grandkids don't see through them. 

I'm at a loss too--you can protect yourself with your boundaries; you can protect your kids as well. You *might* do some things to protect your stepkids... . however that is murkier, and hypothetical for now anyhow.

However, your boundaries cannot protect your wife from her family. In fact trying to do that would be trampling on her boundaries! Perhaps you can suggest ways she might enforce boundaries with them... . however that would likely be invalidating unless she asked for help.

Fortunately it sounds like your wife is pretty sick of their behavior... . and likely to reduce contact on her own.

so as far as when your SO are very depressed... how do you handle things?  What do you do?

Obviously you still follow steps on validating, SET, etc, but anything else you find that works?

Do you feel if they are just lying in bed and depressed and you feel there is nothing more you can do it is ok to live your life and try and cheer up yourself, or does that set them off?

You cannot force anyone to not be depressed, you must look after yourself. Depression in carers is a serious, and common problem. If you become depressed they will end up mirroring this.

The best you can do is set a good example, the same with boundaries if you can demonstrate how firm boundaries benefit your life they "may" learn to adopt the same techniques in their own life.  She has no boundaries, her family has no boundaries. You are the only one who she may learn from.

Bottom line is you have to do whats best for you first.

Maybe it is just me, but i suspect others of us have this too

Therapist tells me the usual that been said here.  "it is not all your fault"

Why do I have such a hard time accepting that?  Is it because there is fear of being out of control of something?

Why do we all put up with what we do?

Even those of us who leave, have allowed ourselves to be abused to a degree.  What is it about us that makes us tolerate or attracted to this behavior while others run long before?  Is it our upbringing?

Maybe this should be used for a different thread... We are all here trying to learn to deal with a BPD, but there must be something wrong for us that we are accepting that we can just *deal* with a BPD.  The guilt we feel, the sadness for them... why?

I have found all of this to be very true in my case. When I finally stood up for myself and carried myself in a more confident way she began to do the same. She may give me the silent treatment for a short time now, but she will now come to me in a reasonable amount of time and tell me "what I did wrong" so that we can discuss it. This has worked much better than her fuming about it for long periods of time and then blowing up at me. I think this mirroring works for most positive and negative aspects of the relationship. You must model for them a healthy way to act and they will be more likely to follow.


There are many variables that come into play for how we ended up in, and stay in, these relationships. The important thing is that we do something about it so that we either improve what we are in or get out in order to protect ourselves.

The FOG is all encompassing and can literally destroy you. You have to find a way get yourself to let go of the guilt. Repeating a positive mantra every morning helped me overcome several issues I had. Just keep repeating it over and over until it sticks. Drown out all that negative garbage in your head as best as you can. We are human and we are allowed to make mistakes. Learn from them and let it go. Beating yourself up over them will help no one. Especially yourself. Try saying "I am a great husband!" a hundred times out loud and see if you do not feel better. I bet you will.

We must love ourselves first.

I do something like this, I have little ditties like this I put to a simple tune, and i hum the tune and find the words subconciously going through my mind. It really is uplifting. My partner asked me what I was humming, so I told her. Now she finds it uplifting when I do it out loud. She says it puts her in a good mood knowing I'm in a good mood. She is not worrying about me feeling critical of her, leading to defensiveness, when I'm humming a tune about what a great person i am.

It's become a standing joke and performed with 'hammed" up vanity.

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