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She says she loves me... .

.but she treats me terribly... .

We broke up once, and got back together a month or so later.

We used to be very close, but now she seems to have lost all interest.

We were close to buying a house, but I couldn't handle the arguments and raging close to purchasing and broke it off... . we got back together a week later.

The things she has said and done are horrible. Worst Xmas of my life after being abused for not buying her diamond jewellery late at night... I'd spent nearly 1k on presents including something that made her mother cry she was so happy.

She usually comes back the next day and is incredibly sorry. But I've had things like you're not a real man, your penis is too small (it's normal) (and I make sure she orgasms every time we have sex) I've never really been attracted to you etc. In the context of a rage it's horrible and meant to hurt.

And lately it's just walking in eggshells, anything I say can result in a rage or irrational argument, often followed by a nasty "you need to be stronger, you're not strong enough for me". And every time we argue she's happy to almost instantly escalate to let's breakup if you argue with me etc... .

I love her, and I'm trying... . After one nasty session she was apologising, admitted she's done it to a few other people and we went through all the BPD tests/criteria. She was a yes to all but cutting/suicide.

She's getting worse and more distant. She was weird about saying she was going out tonight and eventually said its a girls night. She hasn't answered phone calls today or replied to a couple of texts and I'm almost certain she's seeing somebody else tonight. If I knew for sure I'd just end it. But I love her and I know she doesn't mean to be like this... . but the toll is starting to tell.

Help and advice very welcome!

We've been together nearly 18 months if that helps.

Jb101 this is the sentence that worries me most. She definitely *does* mean to be like this. Her actions are purposeful and are meant to control you. This person sounds like she has irrational and insatiable needs, which is *her* problem, but like so many abusive people rather than addressing her messed up head she'd rather devalue and emasculate you. this is about control--she wants to control you, use you until you're used up, then laugh at you and throw you away. and she's done it before and she'll do it to the next guy/gal.

i'm being direct here only so that you can prepare and understand the situation you are in right now. nearly *all* of us on the leaving boards and many/most on undecided have experienced the same level of emotional abuse. some have stories of working things out--but my experience has been the opposite. i think you should ask yourself why you are undecided on leaving her? what are your boundaries? or, put another way, seeing as she's behaving abusively like this, what would be the final straw for you? if she starts sleeping with other men/women? cheating was the boundary for me. i didn't think my ex would cheat at all while in the r/s but after *I* ended it and saw her for who she truly was... . well my perspective changed.

some may say that you should stay and figure out what you want from her and try to work with her on things. however from your description of how she is behaving, i feel like if she already isn't going past the boundary of sleeping with others, she's already planning to do so (or been planning it for months unbeknownst to you) and is just waiting for the right opportunity to dump you, so then she can claim "it wasn't cheating". i'm so sorry for what you are going through. don't believe any of her emasculating drama, it's not about anything that you lack, she's probably said all the exact same stuff to every guy she ends up hating because of her issues.

there may be nothing you can do from stopping the train from derailing, but you can take steps to try and protect yourself as best you can. i advise you to take *strong* boundaries about what you expect to happen, and do so *quickly*. the relationship may end and it won't be what you want... . but it could end with you making the decision because you trust your instincts about who she really is... . or if you try to hang in there too long you may get even more hurt when she takes her abuse to a whole new level.

so sorry you are going through this. disgusts me hearing how people can be so abusive without any kind of consideration. does it disgust you?

It disgusts me, and I'm horrified. Since I've realised what is going on I've felt almost detached at times. It's like I'll watch an argument from outside and know what's happening, but not know how to stop it. But at the same time, I can't ignore it all. And even though we've spoken about it and I've said its serious emotional abuse... . it's ongoing... .

She's destroyed me. I feel stuck in a hole. I used to be so confident, but it's like I need breathing space, but if I try and set a boundary there, she'll use it as an excuse to walk away rather than deal with what's happening. In some of her apologetic moments she's admitted it and said she would do everything to get help, but now she constantly seeks excuses not to. She's always too busy.

She's human, she has a problem, but that doesn't make the abuse any easier.

I just don't know if it will get better...

You say, "she'll use it as an excuse to walk away". I cant see what you will be losing if she does that.

Are you ready to build your strength, see her abuse for what it is, and make  a stance by walking away yourself? Your life needs to be in your hands rather than somebody else's. Good luck.

I am most definitely not an expert, but I have literally gone through what you're going through.  Rather than saying that my member was "too small" I was told that mine was too big (no joke).  When I heard that I just shook my head in disbelief.  That's supposed to be a good thing right? 

The truth is that IT IS NOT YOU.  That's the hardest thing to understand.  IT IS NOT YOU.  I had a nervous breakdown and was thinking about off-ing myself before I found out about her BPD.  I've never considered that before in my life.  When I told the counselor, she said "You know she's got BPD right?"  That was a shock... .

Last night I had a terrible panic attack.  This morning, she apologized, hugged me repeatedly, and said that she's going to make more appointments.  This blew my mind to say the least.  But it shows that she wants to get help and improve.

If you have your own problems, identify and work on them.  That's all that you can do. 

When I first found out about BPD, things were definitely not getting better fast.  I asked the counselor (PhD) the same question about 20 different ways.  How long is it going to take, and can she recover?  The counselor got fed up with me and reiterated that she had already told me the answer.  IT'S UP TO HER.  If she wants to get help, she knows where the professional treatment is.  If she doesn't want to work on it, it's only going to get worse as time progresses.  Literally, when I told my wife this, and when she heard it first hand from the counselor, she started getting serious. 

BPDs doubt themselves hundreds of times more than "normal" minds.  They don't want you to leave, but they treat you like crap.  It's not easy... . you just have to know how much you can take, and realize after a set amount of time that if she's not serious, it's not going to work no matter what you do.  Literally, counselor told me that there is nothing that I can do.  I felt horrible.  I love this person so much that I would gladly take some of the pain burden.  It's not possible though. 

One bit of advice, is make the decision before you have children.  That complicates things considerably.  Know your limits and communicate them as calmly as possible... . not easy btw.

Thanks so much for the advice so far everybody. It's been so hard doing this without anybody to talk to who understands what it's like.

I'm trying to get stronger with the boundaries, but it feel emotionally and physically exhausted from it all. It's like I'm in a daze lately from the constant roller coaster of dramas.

She's been very jealous and controlling and I've ended up neglecting a lot of friendships so my social world is very unbalanced.

Being careful about the children thing, took a few times of discovering that she'd 'forgotten' to take the pill for a month and some near misses to realise I need to be very careful there... A few weeks ago she got drunk and out of nowhere asked for a baby as though it was a toy. The annoying thing is she's much worse when she's on the pill. Bit of a non issue atm, for the last couple of weeks she hasn't liked being kissed or touched, let alone having sex.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you I've been in similar. 

I agree with others that you need firm boundaries about where the line is that will push you to "leaving" and what you will do to actually leave.  For me it would be infidelity or another episode of physical abuse.  And even without that I can't say whether the low-grade stuff won't eventually send me leaving.  Or maybe it could be some secret from her past that comes back that I decide is just one too many.  But my gut tells me this r/s won't last much longer no matter what I do. 

I've experienced the bedroom insults, too.  They hurt, badly.  And even though I know she was disregulated at the time, and she admits she was mean, she doesn't understand or apologize to how bad I was hurt.  I thought I could move past and forgive - but it's hard.  Even though the rages are now almost nonexistent, the low grade stuff is still there.  She's done tons of therapy, and I see progress.   But I still can't move past all that hurt from a few months ago.  I warn you - even if she does admit her behavior was bad, and that she needs help, and seeks help, it will take a ton of time and work on your part to get that trust back. 

And it's the same thing here - she may do or say something hurtful, then apologize later.  Too late, the damage is done.  The real test is when they stop themselves before they hurt.  If they hurt and then apologize - it's just manipulation, whether intentional or non-intentional.

Be careful - and take care of yourself first. 

oh my, i can identify with this so much. IT IS NOT YOU is like a mantra we need to repeat to ourselves. something we know by now but at the same time just hearing you say it and hearing it again helps fatherofthree.

in my case when breaking up my ex criticized me and said i was a narcissist and that all i cared about was money. and this messed me up for about a week or so until i spoke with friends and acquaintances who clarified with me honestly that i didn't behave towards them in selfish ways. the truth is that i'm ambitious and independent, but i far value a happy lifestyle and good friends to having a lot of money and being shallow. i'm a part time musician for god's sake why the hell would i do this if my main motive was $$? i do it because i love it, even though it *takes* money for me to do... . it's worth it to keep me happy. subsequently a guy she was seeing after we broke up--she was complaining how he didn't have money. IT IS NOT YOU, right? Because I was focused on our financial future as a couple so we could build a happy lifestyle and home together (whilst she was terrible about finances)--i get called a narcissist? next guy gets made fun of for being broke, . one guy gets emasculated saying his member is small... . the next that it's too big, wow ludicrosity my friends  :)

Jb101 i think if i distill down what i'm trying to convey to you, it's that i'm worried that in addition to the emotional abuse you've already endured, my worry is that your SO may cheat... . or "cheat" meaning that she breaks things off abruptly so that hours later she can sleep with someone else and think to herself "well, i didn't 'cheat', we're broken up". i can't prove this will happen and everyone's situation is different. but wanted you to know where i am coming from.

i know that i would have stayed with my xuBPDgf through a lot more ups and downs, but her behavior became so disrespectful at one point that i felt like she would do something (*cheat*) that would make our r/s irreparable, even as friends. and after making the call to end the r/s i just saw another side to this person that reaffirmed that i had made the right decision regarding my own boundaries. i hope this makes sense and can help. the hardest thing to digest is that even though she is abusing you emotionally, she sees herself as the victim and you as the bad guy. combine this with impulsivity, good looks and a streak of malevolence and it's a toxic mix for infidelity. please take care, we're here to support you and remember the wisdom fatherofthree shared, and also that if you feel crazy it's not because you are, it's only because you have been disordered by being around a disordered person.

Tried talking this morning, was quite evasive about where she went last night, claimed it was just 'out with the girls'... . drives me nuts, I actually think she sometimes likes to hint she might have done something just to get at me...

Lately when I try talking to her about the behaviour and how it makes me feel she just laughs at me, gets angry and tells me I'm not strong enough for her, half the time with crap about well this just isn't going to work if you're too weak for me. I'm really close to walking away :-(

Honestly, it probably won't get better - not if your course continues to be the same.  It takes work on your part, ie. using the communication lessons from the Staying board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913190#msg913190, and on her part wanting to work towards a more healthy relationship.

She is human, and she is mentally ill.  There is no such thing as making abuse any easier.  Abuse is abuse.

So, you have choices.  It's a journey... . I came here and started on the Undecided board, moved to Leaving when we broke up, got back together and was on Staying for a bit, before I ended it for good.  I've been all over the place, so I do understand what you're going through.  It's hard.

What is your gut and head telling you?  Can you heed those warnings and balance it with what your heart is feeling?

There is a workshop on what we call Wise Mind, that talks about that balance.  You can check it out here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

We're here to work this through with you! 

Not even sure it can be turned around. She's so hard to talk to and negative atm it's just sabotaging everything and we can't have fun. When I try and work on it she thinks I'm being needy, loses respect etc and it seems impossible for me to make it good again.

Ok, so let's look at the facts... .

You're not married.  You don't have children together.  Not sure if you live together - do you?  Do you have shared finances?  Just some logistical questions.

Yes, you love her.  Is it a healthy love?  You've given us enough detail to see a side of it that is not healthy.  If you haven't read this article, it's one that may clarify some things: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm

Sticking to the facts and that you are saying you don't think this can be turned around, what do you think is your next step?

I'm sorry if I'm pushing you.  I know this isn't easy.  It's time to start making some choices that will get you on a better path, one that takes you somewhere closer to happiness and peace.   

JB,

I feel bad for you because your situation is almost identical to mine.  You seem to be struggling through this same issues that I am.  I often try to compare her mental problems to someone being in a wheelchair.  Of course what I neglect to realize is that a person in a wheelchair is normally not an abusive person like a person with the handicap of BPD.  BPD is still a handicap, but that does not mean we should put up with any abuse whose sole intent is to make us feel like sh!t.

I guess I am just giving you my two cents worth.  For me, I was literally about to leave her a couple of days ago, but all of a sudden it looks like she has made progress, and then I hate myself for having thought about leaving her.  But then again I know that is only a matter of time before she has a breakdown.  Its infuriating, frustrating, and disheartening!

All I can tell you is prepare for all options possible.  You do not have to leave her right this moment, but you can prepare to do so by having a contingency plan ready the day that you do leave her.  Things like changing every one of your online account passwords and blocking her from your email address.  If you still want to stay with her, she needs to go to therapy or whatever but on her own initiative.  If you pressure her to do it, it will not work.  In other words, if she does not seek help, then you will know that the fights and attacks will NEVER go away.

Best of luck buddy.  Let us know how it goes.

Well, we've just talked... .

We had agreed to find a rental and work on the relationship after I said we were in no position to be buying a house. Suddenly she's decided she doesn't want to and would like to just buy a house on her own... . but doesn't want to talk about it. Want to give it time and work it out, but this screams she's decided to move on and just wants a replacement first?

I've been up and down like that for months, the abuse has entered a crazy cycle. The worst thing is at some level she knows. But she's gone from I love you and promise I'll get help and fix it to... . don't try and change me. I get the impression atm she feels like if we split she can pretend there is no problem... . And it's back to no remorse, and it's all my fault the relationship isn't perfect, so she should walk away. It drives you crazy! Do you have anything you do to defuse the arguments? We talked about having a time out process, but it never worked, and now if I try she turns on me and says I'm telling her she's crazy... .

Hey jb101,

Sorry to hear what you are going through. All of the things you have said ring true in my relationship (27 months).  3 months ago I set boundaries andmostly stuck to them, resulting in her pulling away emotionally, with the occasional expression of how much she loved me.

2 days ago I was told about her and a guy being all over each other by a mutual friend and by that I mean full on kissing, hands al over each other and leaving a club together.

I was told similar stories by other mutual friends back in August and these stories related to incidents just before and after we got engaged. There were many other things too.  After heraing that I tried putting my foot down and eventually after a few weeks of good behaviour, the abuse, accusations, control and excessive demands all came creeping back in.

In the recent months the abuse has stopped, the other behaviours have not.

I told her yesterday that we are finished, without giving up my sources, and am determined to stick to it. I am constantly having doubts about it and she is constantly denying what she has done and begging me to not break up.

My point is, no matter what way you approach things, setting boundaries or giving in to demands,  there will mostly likely be a negative outcome. You are in a no win situation unless professional help is seeked out.  You will never be able to change her and she will do what she wants. Keep you under her control, being her emotiomal crutch while she does what she wants.  You need to decide if that is what you want for you life.

Good luck with everything.

That's one of the weirdest parts. She's happy to push me to breaking up... . but if I do it she's instantly remorseful and wants to work it out, otherwise she wants control, and the safety blanket of somebody to fall back to...

Perhaps too much information, but I'm hurting and went through some old messages... .

"I'm devastated I said it because I love you so much and you make me really happy. I'm just a lunatic and I hate myself for hurting you." "I'm really sorry about what i did... . it makes me feel sick thinking that I hurt you. You are one of the best people I have ever met and don't deserve that at all. Thank you for being willing to try and fix it with me. I am going to do everything in my power to make me better. Night xx"

And now she has decided it's going to feel crap to talk about it, and after a conversation tonight... . it's my fault because I don't have enough money to make her really happy, nothing to do with her, and we should probably just break up... .

Putting your feelings aside for a moment, is this what you want to continue on with?  What is it, specifically, that you like about her that is compelling you to want to stay with her?

There is a really good (and long) article about what keeps us stuck in a relationship that isn't healthy.  I would suggest reading it and thinking about what you see your future with her being, realistically.

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

If this relationship is something you want, it's ok - many of us have tried to make it work, and for some, it works enough that they continue to stay.  Keep us posted, and let us know what you think of the article.

Jb101, in order for us to be "Undecided: Staying or Leaving", this requires the pwBPD to want the r/s still. Or at least the pwBPD must be on the fence themselves but part of them is still striving to work out the r/s. I'm just not getting this vibe at all from your ex(?). To me it sounds like she's already moved on, emotionally and very likely physically. If she's at this stage she could've been honest a while ago and broken things off, but it sounds like she prefers to keep in contact you instead so she can prolong your pain. I really think you should consider that the only reason she is keeping in contact with you right now is to punish you and satiate her need for revenge. All of the demeaning and emasculating talk from her speaks to this. I'm trying to understand what you are undecided about? After everything you've been through it's totally understandable that you still have deep feelings. But regarding you and her and your r/s to her--do you still refer to her as your girlfriend to others? Does she still claim you as her boyfriend in public? When was the last time that *she* initiated talks of being in a monogamous r/s with you? I may be missing some of the story here but to me it sounds like your r/s with her at this point is not what you perceive it to be.

I'm truly sorry for this, but I feel like her stance is basically-- "Jb101, I'm going to do whatever I want, with whomever I want, whenever I want. I'm not going to tell you about any of it either. Although occasionally I'll hint that I'm seeing other people to gain the satisfaction in hurting you. And the fact that you still 'care' about me makes you look weak and needy in my eyes." << this is terrible and you deserve more.

The way she is treating you I don't recommend you try and keep a r/s with her, because she is abusive plain and clear. But if you really want to know how to get her attention -- AGREE WITH HER! Move on. Date other women. Don't care about what she's doing or wants. Don't initiate contact with her and stop trying to resolve issues with her. Then, if she initiates contact with you and you talk-- **validate** her perspective (Agree with her). Tell her "I can see where you're coming from and I agree. Perhaps we need time away to explore other options. Actually I've been feeling this way for a while. I truly care for you so wanted to make things work. But I think we'd both be happier if we had the freedom to do whatever we needed right now to make us happy. I've been going out on my own lately and feel much like you do and I think you're right. Thanks for being such a friend during this whole process. Call whenever. Hope you are well!" << **this** is a stance of power. It's not what you're feeling but, if there's any chance of you getting any type of control of what's left of this r/s, it's you being AHEAD of her level of detachment. She's lying about a lot of things I'm sure, but she's probably telling you the truth about her level of detachment and her needing you to do the same.

Fair points unfortunately. Co dependancy issues, definitely. Met to diacuss the problems. Part of which is she is really upset I left the house for the night a few weeks ago and went and slept at an apartment I own (she was raging terribly) , said she could no longer live someboy who walked out on her. Just agreed to a seperation for a week so we can evaluate things. Laid ground rules of its not ok to see other people... . But she was very cold and would'nt even give me hug when I left. Basically said I'm not sure this will ever work again and I no longer feel anything... . I get the impression she has bad mouthed me to her friends so much in the last few days she'd rather walk away than admit we are together anymore.

Shattered, totally broken. An absolute mess to be honest. Keep thinking I should have been stronger and found a way.

it's painful for me to read this jb101. terribly sorry for what you are going through. there only way you can truly be stronger is to be smarter as things unfold in the near future. i can look back to stories i heard of my ex's breakups both before and after me and they were all pretty terrible. guys throwing chairs through windows, her backing out then breaking up last minute after papers were signed to move in with a guy, her property being stolen, her being called all kinds of obscene names... . all of which she fully deserved and more when given time and perspective. what i've found is that there simply isn't anything we can do to stop much of the nastiness coming from her, it's unfortunate and painful for us. but what we can try our best to do is channel our pain, anger and hurt in other ways so we don't give these people excuses for their behavior by them using our justified reactions against us. something that helped me and still helps me is to try and imagine myself in the future, looking back on myself now, and imagining how i would have wanted to react and behave. i try and hold myself to these standards now as i'm bound to run into my ex in the near future. i want to tell you "stay strong" but then that just sounds like an empty cliche. you can't and don't need to be 'strong' all the time because i know your suffering. as best you can though, stay smart, love yourself for how well you've managed so far. and don't feel an ounce of guilt about not finding a way when there was no way to be found. it's simply something to endure

So day one of taking space. I'm torn between wanting to work it and thinking of what to say, and just moving on as something healthier. A weird thought I had, and to some degree i think she agrees. Things started massively downhill once she went on the pill. Whenever she takes it the mood swings and problems increase tenfold. She told me yesterday she has just stopped taking it because it upsets her and makes her depressed. When she is on it she loses all attraction for me and we argue with disastrous results...

She's also told her mother about the arguments, but not about the BPD (thinks everybody will feel she has a disease and hate her) who has said if we argue so much she has to move on... which normally I'd agree with.

Shes very high functioning and succesful careerwise, and its normally only the arguing which is a problem... . so some part of me really wants to work it out :-( it's only 2 weeks ago she promised to see somebody and I feel like she thinks leaving me will make her normal again...

i think it's common for women to have negative emotional side effects to taking the pill. so this could be very true for your partner. however this is a separate issue from her being emasculating.

tell ya a story--my ex also stopped taking the pill for the same reasons. we never had an issue with her treating me bad or anything from the pill, but i remember her not liking it and saying that it changed her mood. i fully supported her in not taking it as i cared for her. i would do the same again, i don't think i would ask my partner to take something like this if it made them feel bad emotionally, BPD or not.

however--as soon as we broke up, guess who got back on the pill in no time flat with her new bf! and, why, why, why would i know that she was on the pill? because i'm telling you i never ever asked! i knew because one day when we were talking post-breakup she mentions to me (accidentally-on-purpose) "wow, i'm almost out of birth control pills, i need to get more!". thanks &@#$

the pill and her abuse are two completely separate issues. regardless of any influence, she'll be right back on that pill for the next guy if she wants to seduce him with unprotected sex. and her mood swings will auto-magically disappear while doing so... . for a while at least.

the story she's telling her mother is one sided, the reason for the arguments is largely b/c of her BPD.

you do have a right to find out for yourself if you feel you can salvage the r/s. but it's really important Jb101 to set firm boundaries for yourself. you shouldn't and don't need to tell her what they are, the boundaries are for you. let's say you set the following boundaries for instance:

1) You personally will not give her any excuses to rage or emasculate you. You will remain as calm as humanly possible and if she gets nasty you will quietly end the conversation. This way she can't say you were instigating anything. Personal boundary for you

2) She has to start therapy by May 15th -- you can set a better date, just an example, but make it firm. and don't tell her this date, it's just for you to make a judgement call

3) No sleeping around with other people. Spending the night with other people and then telling you that "nothing happened" will be assumed to be a lie and cheating since you have no way to verify and most likely it's a lie.

4) Date night or time alone with her needs to happen by a certain date. Say June 1st. If you're still "in a r/s" then you deserve to be able to have a decent night out (or brunch, whatever) at some point. The point is to not wait around like so many others while she gives you the cold shoulder, only to find out later she spent all her time wooing the next man. She's not going to tell you until she's already sealed the deal--and then it will be more to hurt you rather than inform you.

So, you have to setup your own boundaries but just wanted to give you examples. Some of these I used myself and they helped immensely. When I made the decision to go No Contact I was very sure that I was doing the right thing because I had given her plenty of chances to treat me respectfully. What pissed her off I think was that both times I left her she didn't have time to really have sex with the next guy and rub it in yet. Still hurt me like hell but I got to keep some dignity because of the boundaries.

So we had lunch and talked... .

A little, theres a lot Id like to discuss, but she wasnt keen and I'm not too interested in an argument atm - issues or not things have to be positive at times.

We agreed to just give each other space, see each other once a week and see how we go. She's probaby going to buy her own house shortly rathet than waiting to see what happens. Which is probably safer anyway.

Said this was certainly not a time to consider things an open relationship while we decide what we want. Agreed and said it was far from what she wanted. Says she just feels like a jumble of confused emotions atm and needs to process it all and think...

I feel good in some ways, she was very nice today...

So a quick update... met up last night after she called and asked me to come around.

Get there and she barely acknowledged me at first. Having a glass of wine and didn't offer anything.

She's bought herself a house. Still saying she's not sure how she feels... . and was keen on making comments about what an independant woman she is now. Basically wanted to tell me about that and wanted me to tell her it was a good... . other than that had virtually no interest in me being there, didn't want to be touched let alone kissed. Much as I want it to work my gut is telling me she just wants me around as a validation crutch before she finds somebody else rather than actually wanting to take some space and think about things like she claims... Any thoughts on the behaviour or how to deal with it? It's like she's mentally in a place where it's incredibly hard for us to have fun... I think part of which is she's very angry at me still for knowing she has a problem. Part of me just says get out before she decides to move on...

That is almost word for word the things my ex has said to me on a number of occasions recently.  The "pendulum" in their mind swings back and forth, back and forth.  You're on one side and something or someone else is on the other.  A pwBPD has a very difficult time making a decision and sticking with it because their emotions cloud clear thinking.  What seems so obvious a choice to everyone else is a confusing, perplexing, taxing, straining, exhausting decision that they would rather not face in the first place because it adds stress to their already fragile emotional state.  Those in a r/s with a pwBPD get sucked in and then when things sour and that pendulum is started, we get whacked with it every time it comes to our side and begins to swing to the opposite side.  I know, I just went through that and it was/is eating me up alive from the inside.

I'm afraid that I have no advice to offer you here really.  I've tried working through some "decision making" processes with mine but they hear the words that you're saying but they can't process it let alone apply it.  I didn't go as far as handing her a piece of paper and a pen and say "here, write out the pro's and con's and make a decision already" because... . well... . that just wouldn't work as we all know.

So I had to make the decision for her and you may have to do the same.  I took myself out of equation.  I'm moving out of the path of the pendulum so that now when it swings to my side, I am no longer there to get whacked by it.  Maybe the pendulum will just stop swinging in my direction or maybe it will swing and stop on one side or the other.  Who knows.  All that I know is that you can't influence/assist/decide for or do anything to control it except take control of yourself and do what is best for you.  You can stand there and get whacked with the pendulum or you can just get out of the way and make sure that it doesn't whack you... . for as long as it takes or more likely, forever.

Good luck.  I know where you're at, I do.

Jb101, just have to reiterate the advice i mentioned before--it's critical that you are more ahead in you personal stage of detachment than you SO, or all the power is in her hands. and the power in her hands will not be handled well. gaining this level of detachment isn't easy and may not be possible in the short term for you, but i feel it would be necessary to balance the scales. telling her you still love her while she repeatedly ignores you or devalues you is not *validating* how she feels, it's only re-stating your needs, which she is plainly saying does not matter to her so much right now. she cares about being independent. working on her new life. if you're there for her or not so doesn't seem to matter to her so much now which i feel she is showing by giving you the cold shoulder when you meet.

when i broke up with my ex i felt the same as you, in the sense that really i was in a lot of pain and i did desperately want her back. but i didn't tell her this, these were my feelings and irrelevant for the situation. so then my actions were to go and live my life... . she got into a full on r/s in no time flat--so i went and dated when i was ready and became less attached. i never told her i needed her for anything, let her do as she wanted, and ultimately i think i was respected far more for doing so than other ex's were. you have to realize that pursuing her more or trying to convince her of your love are actually pushing her away--she may not have the words or integrity to tell you this now but you know this by the way she is behaving.

if you want to salvage this thing--agree with her! and when i say this, don't agree to the BS--don't agree with her devaluation, abuse or dishonesty, and don't participate. but, can't you agree that maybe you need to take some time for yourself in light of everything that's happened? can't you agree that maybe you need to go out and have fun with your friends and do whatever the hell it is you like without worrying about what she thinks or what she's up to? between us, we know that it isn't what you want right now--you'd rather have a caring and adult conversation and salvage the r/s. but you can't make this happen because she's not not allowing it happen. so, no control over this but you do have control over yourself. kindly, respectfully do YOU. wait for her to initiate contact with you. wait for her to asking about the r/s. the power dynamic is off now heavily in her favor and will only get worse if you use the same approach.

You don't say why you love her. The only information we have about her is so negative that I have to ask: What are the offsetting positives? And why don't you think you deserve someone who treats you well. None of us deserve abuse.

In my case, for example, I "married up". She is attractive, great figure, smart as hell and charismatic. Employed and contributes economically . When she's not dysreglating and raging at me she idolizes me, professes her love, and says she can't live without me. We are married. I could go on.

So there are some reasons why I have accepted the unacceptable: emotional abuse.

Do a side by side comparison of her assets and liabilities to help decide if she's for you.

Don't sell yourself short. Living with an untreated BPD partner is stressful and painful. It should be seriously evaluated before pregnancy or marriage. It's your life. THEO

She's smart, beautiful, successful career and well off. When things are good it's great, we've had some amazing times. We genuinely have many things we agree on and similar goals. She's very high functioning and in the good times a delight to be with... . it's part of why it's such a hard decision. I hate us taking space atm, her mother is visiting her and I can see the catch 22 about to play out if I just don't contact her for the week. Everything will be my fault and if her mother then agrees she'll build it up in her head that she needs to see other people. But I also want space to think, I just feel like if I'm proactive it'll deny me time to think and come across as needy, and if I ignore her until she contacts it will be after that catch 22 and a done deal no matter what I think... .

One thing it might be worth mentioning - the other week when she said she wants space. I said well if you want to we can, but if what you really mean is you don't want this and it's making you unhappy and you don't see that changing, I'm happy to be the one strong enough to make a call and end it, just let me know how you feel. She said no, she's just mixed up atm, and not sure if she can see a future or not. Which is when I said fine, we'll take space, maybe see each other once a week and see how we feel in a few weeks. Doesn't mean I don't hate not having talked to her for the last couple of days. But I did put it on the table that we could just end it if she was unhappy. The second guessing in me thinks she wanted to, but wanted to wait and feel more comfortable with it ending though...

you know there's nothing wrong with waiting a couple of days and maybe sending her a text, wishing her well while she's with her mother. not asking for anything but just a short text--this could set the precedent that you're not trying to ignore her. and since you're not asking to meet or anything, just letting her know she crossed her thoughts then it doesn't come across as needy. but if you feel like you personally need NC then you can do this for yourself also... . depends on how you feel.

i does sound like your SO is confused about what she wants, and this happens even in non-abusive relationships. and in either case i think you respecting her space is the best thing to do. again though, from reading your previous posts, be on the lookout for your ex hooking up with other people. you mentioned to her that if she wanted to breakup that you would be strong enough to follow through-- this is all and well, but i went through this twice with my ex--she didn't tell me when she started anybody, never. we weren't even arguing and i assured her plenty of times that i wouldn't react negatively. still, if i asked she would lie or belittle me instead of just telling the truth. both times i figured it out for myself. so, just stay aware that:

(1) if she is pwBPD it's highly unlikely that she will be alone to "work on herself" or figure things out. part of the condition is the inability to be alone. just understand that one of the most common lies pwBPD tell when being unsure about a r/s is that they are taking time to work on themselves when in actuality they are actively seeking comfort in others.

(2) do *not* count on her giving you any info or to be honest in any way about her whereabouts or to tell you anything if she starts seeing someone else. the only way you will likely find out is through friends, her facebook, or if she finally tells you after she's already sealed the deal and just wants to tell you to twist the knife a little more. it's cold blooded but it's how many of them roll. it's simply about them only caring about their own interests--from her perspective she may see no personal gain from cutting you off as a possible fallback until she's "in love" with someone new

Lovely night... . feeling like crap.

Went to her house after she asked me over. Her mother was there and was lovely. She got drunk. Said it was late, I have work, better go... begged me to stay the night. Came back in for a drink.

Her mother goes inside... . after she's away from us said she feel nothing and we were nothing. Started taking like we were over etc. so I leave.

Get the following texts... .

"I'm sorry for wasting your time this evening. It was a test and you failed."

" I am so angry at him" (I believe referring to her father that didn't love her, but who knows... . )

"I need a man that can have sex with me."

"Sorry"

Within the space of 15 minutes... .

I think we're done unfortunately... . :-(