BPDFamily.com

Thanks guys.  There's a prologue... .

So I get the text "I'm outside".  I almost didn't respond and probably shouldn't have because my emotions where running high and I was in a "F" it mood.

She stood outside and it was cold and chilly.  She's crying and there was a lot of "you didn't expect this would be the outcome?" and other things that I'm too tired to recall and lots of her saying "you're right, I'm sorry". Since it was cold I asked her to come in and she did and we went upstairs to my bedroom.  I was still quite defensive however.  She sat on the end of the bed crying and I said "you aren't 'stuck' in the situation.  You did exactly what you wanted to do.  You didn't have to obligate yourself to go nor was a gun put to head forcing you to go.  You did it because you wanted to be with him".  And I said, "you know, I *almost* could of had a better day today if you would of told me last night that hey, there's this family event with (him) and I've committed to go and I can't back out this late".  I'd of *almost* been ok with that.  "You're right".  (Again).  

So I don't recall how it ended but it was amicable.  She walked out of my room and slowly out the front door; as if she was waiting for me to come out of my room to say "wait... ".  I didn't... . at that point.  I did however after about 10 minutes but she had left already.

So I'm getting ready for bed with lots of grumbling... . see if you guys can relate here "what a messed up chick... . geeezuz!".  I started to block her number at this point but was just too tired and frustrated to download the app and mess with it.

I'm asleep... . or just dozing off when I hear pebbles/rocks hitting my window.  Oh yes she did.  I get up and open the blinds and look down to see her shivering in my backyard.  "What are you doing?" I asked.  She then proceeds to sing... . "you are my sunshine, my only sunshine.  You make me happy, when skies are gray.  You'll never know dear, how much I love you.  Please don't take my sunshine away".  She's completely lost it but now I have too.  I smile and ask her to meet me at the front door.

She comes in, we chat... . there's lots of "I'm so sorry"  and "you don't deserve to be hurt like this".  I ask her to stay.  It's after midnight and she's groggy.  She's had her "sleep" medicine already.  She's hesitant but she puts on one of my t-shirts and comes to bed.

I held her all night long; or well, as best that I could.  I had forgotten how she "rides a bicycle" in her sleep.  That poor tormented girl.  She was mumbling something from her work; "scheduling... . I'll get the schedule ready".  She can't shut her mind down long enough to just rest.  

That was the first time that I've held her (or anybody) for a full night since we had last slept together almost two years ago.

She awoke this morning and I caught a glimpse of her checking her phone. Looking to see if he had messaged during the night no doubt.  He probably had as she quickly started to dress.  The sadness came back over me as I could sense it.  She leaned over and held me as I laid on my stomach.  I said "I don't want to lose you.  I'm losing you, aren't I?".  No reply.  I continued "you go find your happiness.  I hope that he understands you some day like I understand you.  I hope that he becomes the man that you want".  She left.  

I got up and instinctively picked up my guitar and strummed out a quick song.  She then came back in to my room and rushed over to hug me.  "I don't know when or how, but I'll be back and if you're gone... . I'll understand".  She kissed me several times about the cheek and neck and then she left.  

The sadness rushes in... .

I/O, I think I can understand something of the emotional bind you are stuck in with your ex.  I know that I would take my ex back in a second if she was being as seductive as your ex is being.  I can understand that to my bones.  It's impossible (or nearly so) to resist having someone you deeply love and desperately want to be with dangle their affection in front of you as your ex is doing.  As an outsider, however, I can see how she is playing you.  How she's manipulating you.  And she is really, really good at it.  I think you can see it too, honestly.

She wants this triangulation to continue, despite her claims that she is deeply conflicted.  Paradoxically, she really probably is deeply confused and conflicted; BPD is a paradox from beginning to end.  She NEEDS this triangulation to continue, because she is not able to commit to EITHER of you.  She needs to be able to bounce back and forth between you, because she can't deal with the emotional intimacy of a sustained relationship with either of you.  She literally can't do it.  While we can understand the context of why she is behaving this way, it does not change the fact that she is being completely unfair to both of you.  She is using you.  And she is using him.

I know you want with all your heart for things to work out with her.  I want the same with my ex.  With all my heart.  I would do ANYTHING to achieve that.  I don't know you, but I wish the same for you and your ex too.  I can see so clearly how deeply you care about this woman.  But the grim reality is that we can't change the situation.  We CAN'T.  No matter how much we love them, no matter how patient we are, no matter how much we validate, no matter how understanding we are.  We just can't.  Only our exes can fix this.  No one else can ever do it for them.   I don't want to be a cynic, but I don't think there is any chance of things ever working out with your ex unless she seriously commits to therapy to change her thinking and her behavior.  Without that, she is never going to be able to control the maelstrom of emotion she inevitably experiences.  No matter how much you try, you can't protect her from that.  I know this is a very hard truth to accept.  I am struggling to accept it too.  Honestly, I haven't yet.  Not really at all, actually.  But I do know in my head that it is the truth, even if my heart has not yet followed.

This situation isn't making you happy.  You can't survive on the scraps of affection she throws to you every now and then to keep you on her leash.   I know she keeps reeling you back in.  She's going to keep doing that.  She NEEDS you.  She needs to keep you attached to her - but not too attached.  I can't tell you what to do, but I do think you need to seriously consider your happiness and well being.  If you want to continue to have contact with her, and I understand very much why you do, I think you should consider setting some firm boundaries.  That she is not to express romantic interest or attempt to restart things with you until and unless she has ended the triangulation and is sincerely pursuing therapy for her disorder.

I know this is hard to hear.  I feel all these same things inside of me, too.  I'm just trying to tell it to you as it is, because sometimes it's easier to see things as an outsider.

What do you think?

Great feedback Cosmo because I know that you know exactly where I'm at.  And I think that you're right... . she's already texted asking if we can "just be" for the day followed with "you were my best friend and fiance... . and I never gave myself the chance to move on in my heart. I made a mistake, and I'll figure it out.  And I still love you. That's my problem to solve.  Do you love me?".

And of course I've bitten again and am getting ready to head over there.

BUT, I like your idea of boundaries.  I'll keep my distance and just be a friend, as hard as that will be to do.  Actually, I've done that before... . when she's pulled away because she no doubt had just spoken to <him>.  After an hour or so though, she begins with the flirtation and then by the end of the day we're holding hands, hugging and kissing.  Let's see if I can keep it "friends" only and if she'll ask what's wrong.  I can then validate her "concern" and ask if she can validate my feelings too and then I can explain my boundaries (as you've described).

Otherwise, this ain't never gonna stop, is it?

Hey I/O,

Can't believe how difficult she is making it. Cosmo is pissing me off because he is exactly where we are, yet he has such amazing advice! He is exactly right. Great words for you. Great words for me.

What a double edged sword. I wish mine was so seductive. I wish my ex would tell me she loves me. Then I read what it does to you and I become more grateful. Then on the third edge, I get crazy again wondering, well, since she is so High Functioning, doesn't let it get so crazy, maybe we can learn the skills to make this work! The signs are subtle, but they are there. She is open to me.

Crazy, she is using subtlely to seduce me and keep me hooked.

I broke NC this weekend as well. Wound up at here house for drinks. Very pleasant, normal conversation. Alluring subtlety. During the conversation, I actually could tell that I have really made progress on detachment. By the time I got home, I was looking for ways to keep this window of contact open! Back in? (I will post this later)

I spent a lot of time here last night and found something I think would be beneficial to you. I have seen it before, I am sure you have as well. The S.E.T stuff. There is a great video here and I found more on about.com that was excellent. One thing that the video emphasizes is "Practice" That is really important.

The key is this technique is it requires you to remove all self-motivated thoughts, desires, and needs to focus solely on validating the pwBPD. It is hard. I studied it like preparing for a math final. I made crib notes and paced for hours rehearsed for hours. She didn't answer her phone thank God!

I spent another hour writing a short email. I still had to edit it over and over, taking out all the little things where I put stuff just for her to read, I put stuff trying to show her I am right. All had to go and I had a very sweet VERY supportive note.

It worked cause she hasn't connected since. Sure sign I hit something deep. OH Well

But I would encourage to to look it up, or reread it if you already had. I do see how this would help in our situations.


 

Thanks Pecator.  Yes, S.E.T. has been what has gotten me to this point.  In an odd way, it's worked too well!      

We spent all day together yesterday.  We took pictures, laughed and had a great time.  It was more "friendly" this time except at the end when a lot of the "I love you's" came out.  Still it was hand holding only and kisses on the cheek now. 

So here were some interesting "experiments" that I tried.  At one point she did the phone check thing and he must of sent a text.  I told her to answer him if she wanted, that I'm ok and we'll resume our day when she's ready.  "Oh no, it's my friend <girlfriend>".  So she replied to her um, girlfriend, and I asked her what is it about <my replacement> that she likes the most.  "You don't want to hear that".  No, really.  Don't answer if you don't like but I'm very curious what it is about him that you love.   "Well, he's kind".  (I later thought about "kind"... . kind to the animals?  No.  No doubt kind in his generosity to her).  "He's funny".  Me: Do you laugh with him like how we laugh together?  "Sometimes.  But in a different way".  "He's very attentive" and then a few others.  Nothing about what a handsome man he is or how happy she is with him, etc.  It was a bit hard to hear but I took out my emotion and listened to a BPD talk about a guy that she was involved with romantically and it was interesting. 

The experiments continued.  So later in the day, she's playing songs that she's "dedicating" to me.  Love songs, miss you songs, etc.  We listen for a while and then shut off the music and just talked.  I then put on an old favorite song of my moms, it's a Rolling Stones song "Winter" that is about a "long, cold winter" and hoping for a "long, hot summer".  My ex knows about my mom (deceased) factuation with the Rolling Stones.  So the song is playing and she picks up her phone and says "did I read to you what I had written on facebook?".  I replied that I wasn't sure if it was something she had read to me or not so I turned off the song and she read something that she had to me before.  And read the responses.  I told how beautiful that was and encouraged her to keep on writing... . and that facebook could just go away some day and she would lose those writings so perhaps writing them in a journal to share with close friends would be a better solution.  She agreed.  So we sat in silence for a bit.  I didn't resume my song that I had "dedicated" to her.  Finally she said "you can put your song back on" and I told her that it was ok, it's an old song and know that it isn't her genre of music.  "I am so sorry!  I do want to hear it!  I don't know why I... . please, please continue playing it".  So I finished the song.

Later, after she left and our texting resumed and she had done the three separate texts: "I"... . "LOVE"... . "YOU!" I asked her what is it about me that she loves?

"Because I am the truest version of me when I am with you... . the me I always knew was there, but just got lost in the disappointments and disillusioned fragments of this great big wonderful life."

(I thought about your post about "lots of 'I's' in there" Pecator at this point)

So I replied.  "Yes, but what is it about ME that you love?"

She replied "your fortitude, your courage, your vulnerability, your sense of humor, your intelligence, your faith, your soft side, your tough side, your integrity, your valor, your joy, your sorrow, your love... . "

Anyways... . I'm just posting stuff that I hope may be of help to others at some point.  Very clearly the mindset of the BPD is "ME, ME and ME" (meaning her, her and her) and we all know that but it is really clearly present when pressed.

So as of right now, it's a "take it as it comes" thing.  When I'm with her, things go great the whole day/night long and we have a good time and I really enjoy that.  I either just have to realize that she's going to see <him> as well and deal with it, or just walk away and get none of the fun times together.  I am slowly pulling away though.  I going to keep it LC today as she has other plans.  The toughest thing to think about though is that <he> is getting the intimacy and I'm getting the bulk of her free time.  She really doesn't see this guy much at all.  Two days ago would of been the first time aside from a quick work lunch visit that she'd seen him in over a week. I know that because she is with me every night of the week and all day/night on Saturdays.  The thing that will "kill" me though is this damn cruise that she's going to go on with him.  The previous advice about seeing if she does go (she is) and then breaking it off afterwards is heavy on my mind.  That just may be the final straw (as it should be).  I just don't know right now.  Heavy FOG obviously.

So for the few of you following the saga... .

(and this may be in a book or screenplay some day )

The weekend was more of the same; spent all day and half the evening with her on Saturday and had a wonderful time.  Come Sunday, she has plans with *ahem* her girlfriend who lives down <his> way and it's quite obvious... . she's texting me the first half of the day "oh we're doing this and that and here's a picture that I know that you'd appreciate" because she is with her one friend that she has but then come the afternoon, no texts, no replies so she's with <him>.  So I'm getting a little flustered with this whole situation (no! say it isn't so you say!).  So I figure that I'm going to set some boundaries for myself (about freakin' time the rest of you are saying)... . come April 1st, if we're still on the merry-go-round ride and nothing has changed, then I'm pulling the plug.

Well Monday night, the 31st of March, she comes over after having finished up whatever the heck she was doing with friend(s) down <his> way so that she can make sure that I'm still on good terms.  This is starting to get comical and all too predictable (starting?).  She's over and of course I start to  melt like butter because she knows just what to say and we're laying together on my bed and just talking and holding one another and she leaves.  But in the back of my mind I'm saying "nope, I'm keeping that boundary and I didn't hear the magic words... . "I want to leave him and work out things with you".  So the next day (yesterday) I have a conversation with her and I say "look, you seem really, really confused and anguished over all of this.  You don't seem happy except when we're together and not thinking of any kind of future or anything beyond just the moment.  Let's take that time apart that we once talked about and how about we meet April 25th, 2015 (just over a year from now) at <place that we had our first date>.  It will be the 5 year anniversary of that date and we'll see where things are at. I'm going to continue to work on myself and see if maybe it would be a good idea to get back to therapy and the DBT that we've talked about and work on or out the situation with <him>.". 

I immediately blocked her on facebook and didn't respond to the flood of texts that came in last night "I was with <girlfriend>... . (boyfriend) and I'm headed home.  Are you ok?  Baby?  Where are you?".  I ignored them all and went to sleep.

I awoke this morning and was sad but pulling out my inner strength.  I'm sticking with this says I.  Well that lasted all of a few hours in the morning and I sent her some texts.  Basically saying that "I'm ok, I will be ok" and that I have more respect for myself than to be somebody's favorite #2 when I should very well somebody's one and only #1.  She replied "I love you.  I LOVE YOU.  That's all that I know, I love you.  And that's everything". 

Feeling crappy that I broke NC, I went to the gym tonight and who shows up?  Oh yes, she did.  She's bought me some shirts "on impulse... . I don't know why" and had to give them to me.  I thanked her, hugged her and she left and I went and squatted 550lbs, tweaking the $hit out of my lower back but enjoyed the workout.  But now I've been sucked back in to the FOG and so I text "hey, wrapping up the workout.  Meet me at the coffee shop?".  Yes, in 10 min she replies. 

So, we meet there and she's smiling and giddy ("I've got him now!" she's likely thinking).  We enjoy a sandwich and are talking about our lack of a future and of nothing in particular and she asks if I want to walk around the square.  "Sure, let's go.  I need to work out the stiffness in my legs".  So we get up and walk out of the shop and start to walk and she stops dead in her tracks.  She's staring down the street.  "What is it?  Do you see somebody?  Something?  Is it <him>?".  The truck, I think that might be <his> truck she says.  She's panicking.  She walks towards the truck and then back to her car.  "I'm sorry... . I have to... . I'm so sorry" and I just shake my head and she zips off towards her house. 

Now I'm boiling.  I'm really boiling.  I come home and I'm stewing and I jot out a text "This was the wake up call that I needed.  Once again, I'm reminded that I'm #2 to you.  Had the roles been reversed and you were with him and you saw me, you would of taken him away from me to protect him.  You wouldn't of come chasing after me worried about what I might be thinking".  I was just about to press "SEND" when a knock comes at the door.  It's her.

"I'm sorry.  I'm so sorry."  She's crying. I can't help but comfort her but I'm not letting this one pass.  She goes on "it's you.  It's 'this' (pointing at things around my room that she had given me or that were ours together).  I just want to come 'home'.  This is so bad of me to say but <his> house, <his> parents house, I'm not comfortable in them at all.  Your place, even though it was never our place, this is more home to me.  The times that we are together... . you've changed, things have changed... . I'm so happy with you."  Yup, all the right things... . said in desperation because she's never quite gone out *that* far to *almost* say that she wants to get back together.  So we sit on the bed and I'm holding her, wiping her tears and I say what was in the text that I was about to send (but toned down... . leaving out the "wake up call" part). 

We talked for an hour and she started treading backwards.  So predictable, I started to get close and she pulls away and now it's "I don't know what I want.".  I pull away again "see, I'm hurting you".  I'm protecting myself I said.  So she draws closer "I talked to him yesterday about the cruise.  I told him that I never had time to process the break up with you.  That I didn't take time to heal.  And he said "but you've been single for 43 years" and I said 'no'... . he doesn't understand.  It's always been one guy after the other.  So I told him that I wasn't comfortable going on this cruise and he said 'then don't go.  If you won't be happy, it's ok, I'll move on.  Don't go'.  He's willing to do that for me.  I was going to swim with the dolphins.".

So I said, "Go.  Go take the cruise. But it's going to tear me away because you will be with him 24/7, sharing quarters, time and intimacy".  She says "no, there's 3 cabins, him, his parents and his sisters.  I can stay with her.  This morning he sent a text and said 'this is what you've always wanted to do.  Just go and enjoy your time, it doesn't have to be you and me'.".  Of course she knows that this is somewhat what I want to hear but I'm not believing it for a minute. 

So we kiss, hug and she has me try on the shirts and she's switching between laughing and then she starts crying again (thinking of <him> and so we say goodnight and she leaves.

Textbook BPD.  I push away, she pulls closer.  I pull closer and she pushes away (a bit).  Back and forth, <him> vs me, black and white.  I told her to just tell me what else is going on, better that I know and hurt instead of guessing, and possibly guessing wrong all the while still hurting.  "I don't want the confrontation.  <Him>, my job, his mother, his father, his sister."  I asked her to tell me what she wants me to do; I'll 'sacrifice' myself for her happiness.  "Will you be happier with him?  Will you be happy trying to fall in love with him?  I'll go and you can do that."  She says "no, you're too much of a part of me.  I just can't let go either". 

So back to where we were 2 days ago.  I'm her favorite #1 until <he> wants some time and then I become her favorite #2.  I am working on that boundary though. I am going to keep pulling away.  The texting frequency has dropped dramatically.  I didn't plan on seeing her tonight and I'm going to see if I can finish the week without seeing her.  I don't know what the dates are for this cruise; it's this month some time and that's all that I know.  Of course she thinks that she's given me the "out" that she needs... . she can (and will) go but will tell me that she stayed in his sisters cabin and that they "hardly saw one another" or some crap like that.  I want to pull out before the cruise because I will literally get eaten up alive inside thinking of what she's doing all day and all night and I can't... . won't go through that.  We'll see if I can be strong enough to enforce my own boundary. 

And P.S.  No, it wasn't him on the square tonight obviously.  And I told her, had it been him, she would be with him right now instead of me trying to salvage and explain that away to him.  I don't think that she repsonded to that... . because she knows that's true and she knows that I know.

A quick (hopefully) note:

After an exchange of texts this morning where I suggested that because of the turmoil that she is must be feeling bouncing between him and me, that NOW is probably the time to start applying some of the decision making skills that her and I have talked about.  She said that she would.  She then asked if a bedframe that I had offered her was still available and if I was still willing to buy the parts and work on her car as we had talked about.  I replied that I do still have the bed frame but that I feel a BIG part of the problem is that I'm being an enabler and that she has a boyfriend and so it should be *him* that is stepping up to offer to help her with her car, fix things around her house, fix her bed (that they sleep in no doubt) etc.  I concluded the text with "But we can talk about that".

She replied: "No need to talk about it, I understand"

Followed later with: "Now I feel foolish for buying you the shirts"

And just now the text: "I love you with every breath"

Her poor little brain is just ping-ponging back and forth; him to me, push me away-pull me in closer.  You just can't help but feeling sorry for these BPD's, but we know that is exactly what gets you sucked in to the FOG.

Wow.  I give you major props for being able to work on yourself through this mess (the going to the gym).   I feel like I am fighting for that kind of self-care right now.  But then again, I live with my pwBPD, and right now she is completely dependent on me. 

And a mess it is.  I agree this "empathy" (or pity, maybe) is what keeps us in this FOG.  I know I sense it.  I sense that she is "soo close" to just "getting it".  It's like a jigsaw puzzle that has 5 pieces left, and it's so obvious where they all go.  At least it's obvious to me - but to the pwBPD, apparently not?  I guess for them there are emotions in control rather than logic or the present moment. 

And I am sure you can scratch your head until it bleeds.  She says she will love you forever, that you make her happy, that she loves spending time with you - yet she is with him?  Makes no sense.  It's like when my girlfriend told me about an ex that she loved and wanted to marry.  He apparently was unsure, so she decided to start online dating to force him to make a move.  Huh?  That's so counterproductive!  Guess what move he made... . HE MOVED ON.

She needs to answer this for herself: If she doesn't love him yet loves you, then why is she with him? the reality is probably that she doesn't know what she wants, she doesn't know who she is, she only knows that she has something somewhat stable/secure with him, yet has more fun with you. 

So very sad that is the way her mind works. 

Man, Max, that jigsaw puzzle analogy is *spot on*.  I feel exactly the same.  She's come a long ways and is so dang close and it's so dang obvious to me the logical choice but she can't pull the trigger and make it happen.

So we had that talk last night (why him?) and she says:

"I do love him, but I'm not in love with him.  I feel so much pressure from his mom (her co-worker), his dad, his sister.  I worry about troubles at work.  I've had this job for almost a year and you know the troubles that I have keeping jobs.  I don't love this job but I'm proud that I've dealt with it for this long.  I can't do the confrontation.  Somebody is going to get hurt by all of this and it's all of my fault... . I'm so sorry".

So do I believe that she goes to see him (again, it's quite infrequently because she spends a *lot* of time with me and he lives 40 minutes from her) because she 'doesn't want to rock the boat... . not yet' or because she wants the best of both worlds in having both him and me.  Everything BPD would suggest that she wants all of this attention but Max, I tell you, I see the agony on her face.  She keeps saying "I'm struggling with this every day.  I'm just so exhausted!".  So I tell her that for her health, she just needs to apply the lessons that we've talked about with decision making and she needs to figure out a game plan and then execute it.  I mean hell, people have to do that kind of thing every day.  I can't imagine being BPD with emotions screwing with your logical thinking and the inability to just make some simple decisions (not to mention the more complex ones like this one). 

So yeah, I'm still working the puzzle.  I figure out where 2 of the last 5 pieces go and then the cat knocks a corner of the puzzle off the table and I have to rebuild that part of it.  Craziness.

My guess is that at some time in her past, she would have loved the triangulation.  And now at her age, she is starting to realize that gets her nowhere, but can't seem to figure out how to stop.  That tells me there is something deeply flawed in the process.  Most of us would be able to evaluate ourselves:  "I need to do this to get what I want," and then alter our lifestyle or our choices, or just give up on getting what we want because it is unrealistic.  Back to my puzzle analogy, it's like she sees the puzzle is incomplete.  She sees there are various pieces missing.  She knows the remaining pieces go into the holes somehow but maybe doesn't know how or why.  But, there is something that keeps her from seeing the bigger picture and that the 5 pieces fit into the 5 holes and how they fit, and that makes the completed puzzle.  It's like she doesn't know what a completed puzzle looks like, and that is why she doesn't understand what to do.  So instead she is like a child, picking up a piece, looking at it, placing it in the wrong hole, picking it up again, placing it back in the same wrong hole, and on and on.

Extrapolate that to the current situation.  She doesn't know what a healthy r/s or true love looks like.  She knows she has certain emotions.  She knows she wants stability and a house and possibly a child.  But the process by which one obtains that is lost to her.  She doesn't realize that her emotions, true love (of herself and others), a job, a healthy relationship (with herself, too), are all the pieces that she needs to fit into place to make the end goal happen.  And I think a big problem is that she can't truly see what the end goal is supposed to look or feel like.

I know my GF was like this - in her teens and twenties, she saw no reason to not sleep around, cheat, have casual relationships.  It got her the attention she wanted and solved her short term emotional distress.  Now in her late 30s, she doesn't have what she wants, and in probably the last few years has slowly realized that her behavior may be why she hasn't gotten what she wants - stability, happiness, a child, marriage.  Yet she continues with the same behavior, and now it is just extremely sad because she knows it isn't working, but seems to understand and want to change, but it continues.

Well I enforced a boundary tonight (finally) and that *may* be all that she wrote.

Some texting during the day.  More of the usual stuff.  I only respond when she sends a text and I stopped texting by mid-morning.  Come afternoon I get a "Thank you" text.  "For what?" I reply.  "For you.  For being this and that and this and that and it is real love and you love me for who I am".  So I tell her that I'm headed to the gym.  "Please let me know when you get there".  Meaning she will be there.

So I arrive and she's there, looking as beautiful as ever.  But I'm just not feeling it.  I really didn't want to see her and I just didn't feel like doing the validation game thang (rhyme).  But, she says that she has a present for me and has me close my eyes and put out my hands (her typical routine for this kind of stuff) and so I do so and she hands me a placard for my favorite baseball team since baseball season just started.  I thank her, hug her and ask if we can sit in her car and chat.  We do so and she asks about my day; or I tell her about my day rather.  She doesn't want to talk much about hers.  She says that she's worried about money because she only has $50 until payday.  Stops me before I could even part my lips "I know (looking at the placard), it was nothing though and it's because I love you".  She presses about the money but I'm not budging.  No more bailing her out.  I do offer a compromise though that would involve her actually doing some work for the money.  My neighbor is moving out and he has some furniture that he doesn't want to mess with and said that I could just have it.  I was planning on selling it on Craig's List for a few bucks.  I told her that if she wanted to come over and photograph the furniture and do the Craigs List listing and then meet anybody that wants to come see it, she can have the money that she makes from it.  She looks surprised... . "but you'll probably only get $75 tops for all of it".  "Yeah, but that's $75 that you don't have right now and it's easy money".  So she agrees.  She fully expected that I'd just pull out some cash and hand it to her.

So I asked if she wanted to go change and come do the treadmill or something while I workout.  This girl does not *do* gyms.  Never has.  I LIVE in a gym.  Total mismatch.  That's why I stopped working out... . babysitting her... . and got so dang fat.  She declines of course.  While working out, I send a text thanking her again, and say that I really hope that she will take care of herself and go for a walk.  She had mentioned earlier that she had been drinking wine every night.  After some time (talking to <him> no doubt... . I can always tell), she replies that she thought she'd mow the yard and go for a walk.  I tell her that I'm sorry to be a worry wart, that I always have been, but really, it's not my job any more so I shouldn't even mention it.  That passes with no comment.

I then remember that I had filled up the gas can for her mower but had forgotten to give it to her.  So silly me cuts my workout short and I race over there.  I'm already kicking myself on the drive over but I'm FOGged in and already committed.  I arrive and she's sweating her butt off having mowed the front but not the back.  I ask her why she's sweating so much.  "I'm mad.  I'm mad at myself and feeling sorry for myself and was working it out with the mower."  Her eyes light up though when she saw me and she hugs me and then kisses me.  It caught me off guard because I would of given her the cheek like she gives me half the time.  So I do miss mowing the yard (I'm in a townhome now) so I ask if I can mow the backyard.  "Yes!" she says.  So I'm mowing the backyard and halfway through all that I can think about is her racing back to this house chasing after <him> (though it turned out not to be him) the night before.  I'm starting to panic.  I feel a panic attack coming on.  I hurriedly finish the yard and I put the mower away and I say "I have to go.  I shouldn't of come here."  She looks panicked.  "What?  What did I do?".  I say "nothing, I just shouldn't be here.  Then I look her in the eyes and I said 'I'm going to be somebody's #1 some day.  Somebody's one and only".  With that I get in my car and drive off, leaving her standing beside my car wondering What the heck?.

I sent a text "I saw the way that you chased after him towards your house last night and that's all that I could think of.  That's all that I can think of at your house now.  It's been tainted.  He get to be your boyfriend and enjoys all the benefits of such and I get to mow your lawn.  I just need to hurt and then heal.  I deserve to be cherished and loved: completely.  Nothing is your fault (a bit of validation here out of habit).  It's just time to move on.  You'll never make a change as long as we both are hanging around... . you get the best of both worlds.  I love you.  Be good to yourself.  Please".

She hasn't responded and I'm going to go ahead and block the number and start working on healing.  I fully expected her to race over here but I think she knows that I've just had it.  I'm sure that she's drinking and feeling pitiful and I semi feel bad about it but I also know that she knows that I'm right and I think that she's just going to let it go this time.

And as if on cue, a text from her just came across.  I won't quote it as it's long but it's mostly a blame shift; how she sits alone like she did so many nights after *I* pushed her away and how could she be sure that it wouldn't wind up like that again if we got back together and how she tried to love this other guy but can't and isn't comfortable when she is referred to as "his girlfriend" and then more blame for my role in her leaving and going to him in the first place (BPD in action here folks!). 

I won't reply and it is time to block and move on.  I hope.  I pray.  Just need to move on and heal.  This merry-go-round has stopped and I just need to get off the damn thing once and for all.

WOW In-N-Out... . you are amazingly patient... .  practically on par with me!  haha.  I have to figure out where your initial pages to this post are so I can read the beginning of the story but from what I've read here I totally relate to where you are.  Or wait, I relate it to where I was a month ago.  My ex had started dating someone.  Someone he didn't tell me about, even when I asked multiple times if he was talking to someone new.  I didn't find out until he'd been dating her for 3 weeks - and they'd already said I love you.  What the heck?

Anyway - I flipped out the way I learned of this info (a coworker) and that he's lied so much to me.  After his predictable fireworks of rage about how it's all my fault, somehow?  he begins to convince me that it's really me, not her.  Except for the fact that every single weekend is her.  And any night she wants is hers.  As if he has zero say in the matter.  And that he will just take her to the insanely expensive steak place for dinner with flowers on Valentines Day but he said I could come over and spend the night after he drops her off.

I was supposed to be grateful for that invitation.  That still eats me up inside.

Addiction.  Addiction to this man, addiction to the drama I think?  I don't know - I cannot stand the rages but yet when he has shut me out (currently) it's the most brutal pain I can imagine.  

It's tough stuff breaking away from this.  The hardest thing I've ever gone through... .

Reading your story is very interesting andn I hope you keep us tuned into the story!

You posted that as I was typing... .   good for you... . that took serous strength... .   I know it because after an embarrassingly long month of begging for him to realize I did not flirt with the current coworker he is accusing me of flirting with - I emailed my ex a little while ago and said basically that I understand why he needs to move on (none of it makes any sense, he's blamed a world of ___ on me that I didn't do) and that I want him happy and wish him well".  It's not really the truth.  I don't understand it.  But I understand that nothing I say will make him understand reality. 

What will you do when she does come running back?

Thanks for dropping by Take2 and welcome to this saga... .    

So we had several text exchanges last night.  Mine said some things that I've brought up briefly before but I really needed to air out.  It was in response to her "you said mean and hurtful things".  My reply was about the hurt that I too felt by her actions; being kicked out of our bedroom.  Kicked out of the home that we shared.  Kicked out of her life when she ran in to the arms of another immediately as if though we had never existed.  I told her that I know that some things that I said out of my own hurt was a protective reflex and that some things said hurt her. I asked for 'grace' for those things. I then pointed out that the sad part is, that the same thing will happen (has already begun to happen) with <him>.  He will lose his patience and he will say things that perhaps he later regrets and she will once again feel the need to "run away" and probably right to yet another guy and the pattern will repeat over and over.  That I dare say that I feel that I was the best shot at having the relationship that she so desires... . that I *finally* have learned about her, what makes her happy, how to communicate, how to regulate, how to love her for who she is.  I also pointed out that while I may of said some mean things, I never cursed at her, never called her vile names, never threw, hit, broke anything.  In fact, I can only think of one or two instances where I even raised my voice.  I'm a big guy... . bodybuilding all of my life.  I know that I'm intimidating in stature.  I was also a cop for a number of years, I know how to de-esculate a situation and the way to do so is by remaining calm myself.  That is instictive to me.  For a pwBPD though, they read that as me being uncaring and invalidating of their emotions and that would spark more confrontation.  I get all of that now and I let her know.  She knows that part, we've talked about it.  Her defense mechanism to justify her leaving was to bring up "you said mean and hurtful things".  I know.

So this morning she sent a single email with a link to a song.  I know that she spent the night drinking wine, crying and searching for and listening to youtube songs that she can relate to.  Hers was  "I've gotta figure this out" by Erin mccarley (www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qrmoxrlbvo).

Also in my inbox was an email from my stepmom.  This is another side story and I'll just touch on it briefly but while dating my ex (the lead female role in this story ), my stepmom helped us out a lot in financially difficult times.  My dad has alzheimers and we would go over and do chores around the house... . something that any son would do for his ill father, but my stepmom would pay us generously for the work.  Well two years ago, I had a falling out with my stepmom.  I'm a big part of that fall out and the stubborn me has just stayed away.  My ex has mentioned that she would love to see us work things out; that family is very important to her and one of the reasons that we split is because I have no family (my family is very small).  My replacement has a family that she has fallen in good graces with and we all know how a pwBPD pulls towards a happy family life... . because they didn't have that themselves.  So long story short, my stepmom sent over an olive branch of an email saying that my brother and his family would be in town and she would like for us all to have lunch at my dads rest home.  She said that she would very much like it if I brought my ex with me.

I've forwarded that email to her (ex) and I've let her know that I too would very much like her to join me... . though she already has plans with <him>.  That this is a time of bringing back together and mending broken bonds and that *this* could be that final chance to get on the right path and mend all of this that has happened over the past couple of years.  That I could really use her to lean on for strength.  That my family accepts her as one of us and that it would mean so very much if she would attend with me.  I won't get her response for a few hours since she was apparently up very late self-wallowing but you know that I'll let you all know what the outcome of this was/is.  Send any prayers or well wishes if you will... .

Her first texts of the day:

"I'll see what I can do for Saturday... . "

"Headed to my first counseling appt with (provider) at 11:00"

"Always"

I'm sitting in my car crying tears of joy.  She had talked about getting counseling and said that she actually had something set up for late April/early May.  She had also said after I talked about moving on with the episode the other night that she "has got to see if she can get that appointment moved up" so apparently she did.

Saturday with my family would mean so much to me and my family so I'm praying that she will accept and join us.  It is/was short notice and she does have *something* planned with <him> so I'm not holding my breath but please GOD, if I can't help this woman to understand I know that you can... . I pray please to let her see the path and choices that are *best for her*, whatever those may be and to please give her the strength to move in that direction!

It's a battle fought and possibly won in this difficult war but it's enough to have me sobbing tears of joy... .

Its always great to hear that a pwBPD is seeking counseling!  I'm very happy to hear that.  I can't guarantee she will get better, but I know she can't if she doesn't find a good counselor.

A word of caution, though.  Right now she may be going to counseling to try and win you back or make you happy.  I deal with the same - I don't want to fall into a trap where I wonder if she is doing things just for me.   I was just talking to my T yesterday, and I said that I was happy that she id doing all this stuff for herself, but then I realized that even though she is seeking therapy, medication, and a job, she's STILL not working on herself!  She's actually just looking for things to "fix" her - no different than when she was smoking weed every day or shooting heroin, or "dating" random men (or women).  She wants the doctor or the therapist to take her pain away.  And she wants me to take her pain away.  If she was truly working on herself, she would do the things the T suggests - going for walks, going to AA meetings, eating better, etc. 

Right now, it's just good your ex is seeing a counselor.  That's all that matters.  But before you really start to see a change, look for work that she is actually doing herself, on herself - hobbies, interests, quality friendships, lifestyle changes.     

Thanks again Max and yes, I'm keeping some distance right now.  I hadn't heard from her so I sent a quick text and she replied.  Said that the therapist is "aware" of BPD and from what she can tell, my ex isn't BPD.  I won't read anything more in to that but... .  

So she said that she needs to take a step back and take some time away from everyone today that she is feeling very overwhelmed.  That she's going to take her camera out and take pictures (her passion) and to know that she does love me... . "I do" she says. 

Is she really with <him>?  Did she even go to a therapist suddenly (the appointment wasn't supposedly until later in the month). Or was she rediagnosed BPD and is freaking out about it?  Who knows. You know how our mind wonders what the hell their mind is wondering.  So, I'm just going to give her the space and see if she reaches out to me tonight.  I'm hopeful for tomorrow but not holding my breath.  And absolutely agree with you; I'm so very happy for her if she did go to therapy but it's a Ronald Reagan "trust but verify" thing right now for me (meaning lets see how much work she puts in to it).  :)

Well for the umpteenth time, had the final farewell goodbye last night. 

I was getting ready for the gym and set on just giving her space today.  She didn't text much and asked for that space.  I sensed that perhaps she had seen <him> (incorrectly as I'll mention in a moment) but just as I'm ready to leave for the gym, I get a text.  She's at a very nearby goodwill that her and I shop at a lot (that is where she buys all of her clothes, housewares, etc).  I'm a bit dodgy but she finally says "Come GW with me!".  Sucked in.  Ok.

So I meet up with her and she's shaken.  Says the T session was pretty intense and that its been an emotional day.  We wrap up at GW and she wants to go for a drive.  It's pretty out and she wants to take more pictures.

We wind up driving out to the country where we lived as our 2nd residence together (we moved together in to three different residences in 3.5 years).  This triggered us both because it was here that we were the happiest.  We took pictures and talked about the good times.  Cried a little and held hands.  On the drive here I brought up whether or not she thought she might go see my family the next day.  "I'll see what I can do, it is <girlfriend of hers> birthday and it's an all day thing with a sleep over".  I pressed and asked if I could just get a couple of hours around lunch but she would only go with "I'll see what I can do".

So while out in the country, we talked to some old neighbors and one in particular is an older gentleman that is just as country as it gets.  Fiesty but full of "country wisdom".  We hadn't been out here nor seen him for 2 years.  We sat and talked and spoke about his depression and how he had laid out some pills one night and set up a bottle of Crown and was preparing himself to just go.  He was listening to music and randomly surfing the web when he came across a page that allows people to release stress, anxiety and depression by having their short stories submitted and then reviewed and published on the website.  He was very excited to tell us about his stories and how he's been praised for his writing ability.  How he had always been a failure in life but this had given him new life.  He had quit drinking and was really a changed man from when we saw him last.  My ex was moved by all of this of course, as she likes to write and I know how she bonds with people and takes on their emotions as a substitute for her own. 

We left and held hands driving back.  I brought up the meeting with my parents and now she says that she wishes that she could go, but will be there in thought and spirit.  I'm really down about it at this point and then I realized that <He> is friends with <girlfriend> so sure, she and him are going for the birthday and then the sleepover is who knows where and with whom.  The night before a text said "<He> isn't the one for me" but as we know, it's the actions and not the words.

I drop her off at her car at Goodwill and I keep the goodbye short.  It is an implied "I'm leaving for a good while now" type of thing.  She's crying and says "keep on doing what you're doing for yourself.  I'm so proud.  God has moved in your direction and helped you make all of these (re)connections".  I tell her that I'm proud of her for taking that first step by seeing a T and she shakes her head and tears fall.  Shame was quite evident.  I asked if she had seen <him> today and she quickly replied "no!".  Doesn't matter.

I drive home saying once again "that's it, done!".  Then the text again "I'm outside!".  Round and round we go.  So she comes in but I'm depleted.  We have that final farewell.  I show complete exhaustion when I ask her if it's <him> again and that's why she was distant today and she replies not in the affirmative but yes, <He> is pulling her one way and I'm pulling her the other and she's confused.  "Still?  Really?"  For the love of... .  

This will just go on and on and it is eating me up from the inside.  I can't sleep.  I'm missing workouts.  My work is affected because all that I think about is her and the situation and every time my phone beeps at me I freak out and cut off people's conversations with me to see if it is her and then instantly reply.  No more, I just can't and I knew it right there.  I told her that if she can't make this decision then I will help make it for her and I'm taking myself out of the picture.  We can meet in a year and see where its at.  I brought up what I had text the night before that it saddens me to know that <he> will say things out of frustration and she will begin to pull away from him and then cut and run as soon as she's found yet another guy to run to.  "No more lecturing".  Truth hurts.  She's sobbing as I'm sitting, slumped down in my chair.  Just plain defeated.  She goes to kiss me that last goodbye and I give her my cheek.  She pulls back and for one of the few times she's mad.  I see it in her face.  Her lips are pursed and her fists are clenched.  She envisioned this long lasting goodbye farewell kiss and I snubbed her.  I should of left it at that but I gave her what she wanted and kissed her back fully.

She said "this isn't goodbye, I'll see you again soon, ok?".  I replied I'm afraid not so soon.  I need to heal.  You need to have the clutter removed so that you can make a decision.  She cried and left. 

I've blocked her number and unblocked it a half dozen times now.  It's currently unblocked because a small sliver of me holds on to the hope that I'll get a text that says "I'm coming with you to see your family".  That won't happen but hope just won't fully leave me quite yet.  I'll let the time with my family pass and then I'll struggle with blocking her number but pray that I can do it.  I just have not other answers.  Stay in this back and forth for what, ever?  Or just move on already.  Take the pain (as sarge says in "Platoon" and move on.

Raise your hands... . how many say "she'll be back and you'll be sucked right back in to the back and forth"?  Crap, I might raise my hand with you.  I just don't know right now.  I am very exhausted by it all though and it's been coming to a head this past week.  Dunno.

Uuuuuuuugh In-N-Out... .    your situation is so similar to mine, less the intense rage... .   and probably most of here... .    kills me to read about her responses to you.  "We'll see"  I f'ing hate that response.  A friend or partner is fully capable to giving a response... .   I can't tell you how many times I've received that response... .   and I also can't tell you how many times I have allowed myself to be recycled too... .   it's helpful and painful to read your story.  You are a very good writer by the way.  You're so patient with her - she has no idea how lucky she is with you.  I want to tell you get her out of your life, that there are 12 million other girls that won't treat you this way!   But of course... . I fully understand getting sucked back in.   Time and time again.  Each time being treated worse than the last, because each time I got back, shows him exactly how much crap I will take from him... .     I'm currently being given the final silent treatment... .   I think.  Of course we have spoken each day this week - we work together - and by spoken I mostly mean email.  A couple times in the past week we said the i loves you, we even slept together twice in the past week!  which to me would mean I love you, I care, I want to be together.  But I was promptly back to being blacker than black and completely shut out within 24 hours of that... .    it's so brutal.  Be strong ok?  I'm pulling for you... .

You've take some major steps, I/O.  You are in a very difficult situation, and I think anyone would feel as conflicted as you are.  I certainly would.  Your ex is very good at keeping you close, but not too close.  It's very positive that you are standing up for yourself and insisting that you not be toyed with.  Still, I can appreciate how you must be feeling in knowing that you are hurting your ex and that she isn't taking it well.  Also the dream of being with her is hard to let go of - I really feel that too.  Perhaps things can work out in a year as you said.  If it is meant to be, it will be.

Don't be hard on yourself.  I think you are being strong in putting your foot down.  I don't think she has the ability to end the triangulation, and you are the one that has had to assume the burden.  That's very hard to do, so go easy on yourself.  It's a process to detach.  These situations with pwBPD can be very traumatic.  This is not a "normal" relationship by any means.  It is an inherently disordered relationship, because she is so disordered.  The fact that she is participating in therapy is very positive, however - difficult as it must be for her.  You rightly point out that actions are what matter in the end, though, and the therapy has to be acted upon.  Showing up and going through the motions won't change anything.  Let's hope and pray she is serious and committed enough to change.   :)

Keep taking good care of yourself.  Going to the gym and maintaining your health is very positive.  I've also been working out like crazy lately, and it's helped to direct a lot of my overflowing emotional energy into something positive.  It's much better than ruminating about my ex.   Focus on your career, your family, your friends, your hobbies.  Things do get easier the longer you are out.  I am already starting to feel less of the panic and pain (still there, but lessening).  Hang in there, man.  You're doing really well!   |iiii

Thanks Take2, this brought a happy tear to my face and I needed that comfort.  You're right, I'm a good looking guy that has his stuff somewhat together (lol) so I really shouldn't be worried about finding a partner for the 2nd half of my life but as we can all attest to, the pwBPD wears down our self-esteem, our confidence, our energy, or desire to interact with others and I would imagine, given the time, perhaps our own will to even exist any longer.  I *will* bounce back; I've taken some HUGE steps already the past couple of months actually - and some day that right person will come along for me. 

But thank YOU so much for this.  Just what I needed to hear today.   

And thank you Cosmo.  Yeah, I don't know what or how I would of survived this without this message board and the gym/working out.  Both have been HUGE in keeping my sanity up to this point.  And I'm not mistaken but it's going to get rough for the next... . 3, 6, 12, 24 months?  I will miss her.  I will reach out to her.  I may recycle with her.  Who knows what will happen but I do know that a big piece of my heart died with her yesterday and I need to sever that part of my heart and just let it go and then regenerate a whole heart again.

I'll be honest.  She sent a text (nope, couldn't block her yet) saying "I'm with you" while I was visiting my family.  My only response was a group picture that didn't include me and then a picture of me with my ailing dad.  She responded "I'm crying.  I'm so happy for you.  I've wanted this for you for so long (obligatory "I Love you's" included of course)".  I finally responded "I'm going to go now.  Go be a happy couple at your friends birthday.  I will see you next April perhaps". 

Bah... . off to the gym for the 2nd workout of the day.  Transference of pain from heart to body.  Love it.  :)

I wish I couldn't understand this at all... .   I wish so badly I was totally clueless to this thought that there have been multiple times in the past year that my will to exist was pretty minimal.  ME.  A previously strong, confident, intelligent, popular woman... .   tons of friends, never hurting for male attention... .   I'm going thru massive withdrawal from my ex painting me black as night and then shutting me out completely... .   it's never been this bad before in the 4.5 years that we have been on and off... .   and I know I have said this 12,000 before, but this truly feels like it's over this time... .    I would have to be INSANE to ever go back to him after how horribly verbally and emotionally/psychologically abusive he has been... .    And I think that is the key here... .   that now and for some time, it has been me... .    me holding on to an abusive r/s with a very cruel man... .    I too will bounce back... .   it just takes longer with every recycle... .    so it does truly give me strength to read how strong you are being.  I use these boards, a wonderful friend I met here and the gym to build my own strength - physically and mentally... . some days are better than others... .

:'(

Hugs to you Take2... .

There's been days in the past where I would just break down crying during the middle of the day and would have to go home from work because I was just too much of an emotional wreck.  Other days, I feel great.  I'm good right now.  It may be a placebo effect, but a couple of weeks ago I began taking melatonin because I was not sleeping at all.  I would wake up frequently during the night, often dreaming of <her> or I couldn't shut my mind off from trying to solve the <her> puzzle and I was just exhausted every morning.  Well, the melatonin not only helps you to sleep but it also regulates your moods and again, maybe it's a placebo effect but whatever it is, my mood has actually been really good through all of this recent mess. 

Melatonin used to give people the weird dreams but this one formula that I got from "Natural Advanced Sleep" doesn't give me dreams that I can remember at all because I am zonked out.  The one down side is if I don't get at least 8 hours, I am groggy in the morning.  But I'll trade a good 6 or 7 hours sleep plus a regulated mood for a bit of early morning grogginess any day. Try it and see if it helps you, I'd be curious to know. 

Welp, got myself painted black again it would appear.

She was at her girlfriends and sent a text of them together in a "selfie".  I was on my way to meet my family for dinner.  I asked my ex to tell her friend (whom I've met) "Happy birthday" after she untaints my name (she had told her *all of the mean and nasty things that I ever said to her*).  She replied "your name isn't tainted".  I responded "sure it is, you told all of your friends and family that I said the most vile, vicious things ever uttered to you.  But that doesn't matter now!  I'm off for a dinner date.  I'll talk to you later, k? :) "  I was half-assed joking/half serious.  No reply.  No reply all night, no reply all day.

I tried to resist the urge but I sent a "Baby?" text to her this afternoon.  No reply.

So just like that, and without a doubt after a nice romantic evening with my replacement, all of the "I love you's", etc are erased and I'm blocked and painted black.  Ha!

Honestly, I know inside I wanted to get painted black again because I just didn't have the strength to block and move on.  I forced her hand and now she's making me have to do that.  Good for her, good for me.

So I believe that will close this chapter (?) of my life.  Sadness, sorrow, fear, obligation and guilt along with a heavy dose of heartache will hit from time to time and for quite some time.  But I will heal.  And I will have moved on.  There just really is no such thing as a "normal" or r/s with these poor people.  And so why settle for anything that is, at best, "semi-normal"?  Right?  Chin up peeps, I have me, you have you and those pwBPD have themselves and their issues to deal with.  Let them be would be my advice. 

 

Here's to that... .

I don't rule out that you add more chapters to this story though... .

In N Out -- what is it that you want?  My impression reading these threads was that you wanted her to stop seeing the new guy & reunite with you.

Do you see that telling her you are going on a "dinner date" is a guaranteed ride on the roller coaster?   Was there some context which was supposed to allow her to infer this was not a real date?

Sorry if I'm reaching wrong conclusions from incomplete info., but this sounds like you doing to her exactly what she does to you. Seeing others (or sounding like you are anyway), but then turning around with "baby?"

I can definitely understand a desire to give her a taste of her own medicine -- my ex left me & started seeing someone else, and I can think back on a couple times when out of hurt, I implied maybe I was with someone else -- but I think you have to understand that's not likely to be a constructive response to her various fears of closeness that are already a huge impediment for the two of you.

Amazing how one little thing and you go from the love of her life to the devil.  But, I'm thinking along the same lines as patientandclear.  It sounds like you (understandably) just had enough with her triangulation game and tried to force a conclusion to the situation, and the result is probably what you expected if you look at is deeply.  I certainly can understand that.  I think there have been a few times where I have done or said something passive aggressively because I wanted to make a point or an example and I knew the result would be bad.  But it was at those points where I felt so much tension that I wanted something to snap, and didn't care what she thought of me.  (And, I wound up getting punched in the chest and accused of choking her.)

As you said, on some level you wanted to get painted black, just to have an end to this pattern.

Just a little update that is about a week's worth of drama consolidated in to this one post.

I was feeling stronger about keeping it LC and just letting her slip away.  She wasn't texting as much and it felt like it was finally going by the wayside.  Yeah, I know... .  

Then two days ago, the strength was zapped from my body for no apparent reason.  Chemicals in the brain, withdrawals, whatever it was I started to miss her maybe my estrogen levels are elevated from too much test booster but I was a bawling baby again.  I reached out to her and told her that I was suddenly feeling very down.  She said that she thought by the way that I was texting that I was moving on.  Yes, I definitely had been strongly hinting at that. So she comes over after work on Thursday and lays in my bed and pats the bed as in "come lay with me".  I did and she held me while I wept like a baby.  I'm a big, sensitive guy and it really came out.  We went around in the same circles about how she's "stuck" in her present situation and if only she could turn back the clock and have me as I am now (I "fixed" myself as opposed to how I "used" to be apparently) but that she has fears that things will go back to how they were (probably would, but maybe not so much as I've since learned of her BPD and how to somewhat cope with it).  She reassured me that everything would be ok and gave her now frequent saying of "some how, some way, some where, some day" as if though she'll be back.  What I later learned was that she went and had an evening with my replacement.  So within a couple of hours time, she went from telling me how much she loves me, always will, etc to saying the same to him, no doubt.  We all know this is BPD at its core. 

I was pretty worked up about it having been so emotional earlier that I couldn't just sleep on it.  I sent some texts; they weren't mean but I brought up the traits of BPD that she's very much displaying and that of course was hurtful to her.  She replied the next day and said that she didn't go through them because she could tell that the tone wasn't a pleasing one.

So that day my son awoke with a red rash on his face and so I asked him to visit the school nurse.  He did and she feared that it may be shingles.  I've had shingles and I was freaking out thinking of the pain that the poor kid may be going through.  I contacted the doctor and made an appointment right away.  I contacted my ex as well and she asked if she could come along.  I intially said yes but then the incident from the night before weighed on me and I told her to not worry about it, not to worry about us as we are not her concern any longer, but that I would let her know what the doc said. 

So off to the doctors office we went and sure enough, my ex showed up.  I anticipated it actually.  I just *know* when she's going to show up; at my gym, at the park where I jog, and this time.  She showed concern for my son (who does not care for her at all at this point because he's seen the hurt that she's caused) and she would look over at me and give me the "I'm going to kill you face" (because of the texts) and then smile and look at me in a loving manner.  It's crap like that which just sucks someone back in.

Left the doctors and I bought her lunch and thanked her for coming, letting her know how much I appreciated that and my son did as well (lied), though he doesn't show it.

Cue in to today's events (Saturday).  I have been talking to someone and met for a first date earlier in the week.  She's a pretty girl but not my usual type.  She's shorter than what I'd usually date and a little heavy but that's being shallow.  She's actually very pretty.  Has a great job (RN), nice car, house and a 16yr old daughter from her marriage.  We had a fun time on the first date and I asked her out for today.  A day date.  So we went in to the city which is 40 minutes from here.  My ex's replacement lives in the city so this is a trek that she's been making quite often.  We're having a good time, walking around and we hear some live music.  We start to walk towards it.  My ex texts and says "it's a beautiful day, I hope that you're out enjoying it.  Around the world" (meaning "I love you, around the world and back).  I replied that I was in the city and that it is a nice day.  That sparked me and I started to think of her.  I'm in the bathroom and I text "I'd rather be here with you".  No reply.  Oh, so we're walking to the live music and she asks what I'm doing there and I told her "at the art show".  She replied that she was at some crawfish festival.  She then sent a text saying "be sure to wait at least 2 weeks before you tell her that you love her :)"  That was something that goes back to when we first dated and she said "please don't tell me that you love me the first week (as some other guys apparently had).  I joked (at the time) "oh not me, I'll wait at least 2 weeks".  So that was the reference.

Sorry, this is longer than I anticipated... . so we get to the live music and enter the event (I'm with my date).  We're having an ok time.  I'm still thinking of my ex though.  So as we're walking around, I notice that everyone is eating crawfish.  I begin to panic and so I asked a staff member what this was; "crawfish festival".  Oh $hit!  I sneak a text to my ex "we're here at the crawfish event too".  No reply.  I'm frantically, but sneakily looking to see if I can spot my ex and her replacement (whom I've never seen).  I want to see them but then again, I really don't.  I'm afraid of what will happen if I do.  I never did spot her.  After some time, I suggested to my date that we move on to something else and she agreed.  I snuck yet another text to my ex "leaving the crawfish event, you lovebirds have a good time".  No reply.

Came home and sent a couple of more texts to my ex.  I explained that I had not planned on going to that event that we had just stumbled upon it and that I did not see her.  No reply.  Haven't had a reply.  She did apparently post pics from the crawfish event on her facebook after I let her know that I was there but I can't see what she posts (defriended).  My guess is that it freaked her out that I was in "her turf" where she felt safe going down to play romper room with my replacement.  I'm wondering if this has me painted black now or if I will hear from her in the morning.  I have mentioned to her before when she would say things like "you'll meet a nice girl at the gym who you have more things in common with and I'll be sad but also happen for you"... . I would say "I think that you want me to find somebody so that you can finally write me off once and for all and she would reply that I was being silly.

By the way, I picked up the 2nd part of the date with my new lady friend and we just concluded a nice night out at a local bar.  She's a sweet girl and has a very bubbly personality which is something that is very appealing to me right now.  Still miss the ex like crazy of course though and my mind wonders what she's thinking and what her intentions are.  Will I hear from her tomorrow or on Monday or ever again?  Will the saga continue or are we done?  We shall see and I will let you all know. 

Oh In-N-Out... . of course it's not over... .   she'll be contacting you probably before the end of today... .   I think it's good that you have someone to distract you... . hopefully you can soon be able to enjoy her company without thinking about the ex at all... .   the withdrawal can be so hard, I know that feelng where you feel pretty damn good for days and then out of nowhere the pain hits so hard again you struggle to cope. 

I started to feel stronger by late in the week and well, guess who apparently was not blocking me anymore?  the exBPD-bf of course... . he started to email and text again... .   he's texted many kind texts this weekend. 

All started as soon as I stopped reaching out to him... .   I am using working out also as a huge part of my recovery - because honestly it helps alot more than therapy.  My own reading/research/online stuff here and working out have helped way way more.  So I signed up with a trainer at my gym this week - I need to change things up and get stronger.  Working out helps me focus and making my body become stronger helps my mind become stronger... .   Here's to a strong, stable week... .    keep us posted, I'd been wondering if you had another chapter to add here... .    

Good for you Take2!  Yeah, without the working out, I would be a total mess.  I'm actually approaching my best shape ever and am even thinking of doing some competitive stuff again.  When I start to feel the pain of loss over her hitting again, I really amp up the workouts and *usually* the endorphins will make it subside or lessen a bit but sometimes not.  I've gotten emotional in the gym, often because a song comes on my ipod that I shouldn't listen to, and that becomes damn embarrassing.  

As far as my ex, we *did* have plans to have a walk and talk in the park on Saturday.  However, when my son went to the doctors and she met me on Friday and I later took her out to lunch, we had our talk there.  Just more of the same as mentioned above but she did say that she needed a weekend of "peace" and I told her that I could use the same (i.e., we both had plans with other people).  So yeah, I'm sure that she'll reach out to me later in the day or maybe tomorrow.  Now though it will have a different feel to it.  She is very jealous (aren't they all?) and so I'll get a lot of the black and white "I'm happy for you, why are you doing this to me?" stuff.  Honestly, I've said much of the same to her.

I seriously almost want to tell her something like:

"It's a relationship with the wrong person for the wrong reasons... . seeking someone to replace YOU (ex).  I'll seek her comfort, intimacy and friendship to cure the lonliness and for as long as it takes to get over you, just as you have done with (replacement).  I did that with you as a way to go over (my ex ex) and so I'll do it with (new girl) to get over you.  Honestly though, I'd much rather just be with you because I love you and you've said the same to me so here we are, both "stuck" now.  <chuckling> So who's mirroring who?"

Childish I know, but I'd pay admission to see the response from afar.

I totally understand.  My ex reached back out on Thursday and Friday.  After I finally gave in to not trying to contact him anymore.  Then he becamse incredibly nice again Friday night, all day yesterday and last night.  Nice on text.  I didn't see him at all.  But they were loving, I miss you type texts.  Today?

Sent him a good morning at like 9am, got nothing until right now when I received 10 texts out of the blue detailing exactly what a player I am (NOT) and why he has no feelings for me.  Uh, can you say "date this morning" ?   I hate that I actually just cried over it.  I hate that I want to write to him and say NO, it's not ME whose the player here... .   he's so predictable.  So in true validation - I simply wrote back to him, said I understand his feelings and I wish him well.

Which is a total lie.  I don't understand his feelings.  He said he loved me last night for God sake.  I strongly suspect he was with the GF or is it EXGF who knows depending on what day of the week it is, this morning.  And that prompted this from him.  What I understand is that he is totally disordered and I have allowed myself to be stuck and becoming more and more damaged psychologically.  She can have him.  As awful as it pains me. 

The hardest part - I cannot stand how he portrays me int hese texts.  He makes me sound like a terrible person and I didn't do the things he says.  HE did.  HEe IS doing those things.  It's so hard to let go of that insanity of how unfair it is.  He trashes me and then shuts me out.  Being shut out is the CRUELEST thing he does to me.  Especially when he does it when I have not had any chance to even respond. 

Yup... . projecting their words on to you/us so in order to justify or make themselves feel better about their actions.  My ex just emailed and here it is in part that goes along exactly with what we're talking about here:


The rest of the email goes on to say how we're on different paths and we can't be friends and that she will continue to be strong and get better and that she loves me very much and always will as long as she lives... .  same things she has said before.

My response, which I will be curious to see what the response thereof is, if at all:


Will keep the posts coming should I ever hear back from her.  Can we take bets on if or when that will be?  I'll open with saying that it will be some time this time.  I have a gut feeling that she's painted me black but she will be back.  How long?  A week, 2 weeks?  Maybe a month again like last time. Not sure.

I/O I'm just reading the posts of this weekend now - that's quite a story.  And once again I can see some commonality with my situation here:

- The blaming you for hurting her, when she is doing the same to you. 

- You at times wanting to just be done but then just falling apart over it.

- Her claiming you will find someone better at the gym (or wherever).

In my case, it almost feels like everything she says to me are things I should be saying to her - that I feel like I am waiting for *her* to commit.  That I am waiting for *her* to decide what she wants in life.  But I don't, because I don't want to pressure her.  And then she comes at me about how much she hurts over my indecisiveness.   And at that point, I can't come back to her and say "I feel the same thing" because she won't understand and claim I am just using her words to make excuses.

Please keep us posted on how she responds to your email, if she does.  It sounds to me like you were just trying to get all these emotions that were building off your chest, and put the focus on her.  I think that's good.  I really need to do the same.  I need to tell her she is hurting me, and outline what I need from her in order to feel secure again.  I just need to get over the fear of hurting her, and the fear of losing her for good (or her killing herself).

I would like to comment on one thing, though - the dating someone else.  While I think it is a good step to try and move on, remember this new woman is also a human being that can be hurt. If you still have feelings/desires for your ex, I think it is only fair for you to be upfront with new dates early on, especially if you are texting an ex during the first date.  Take things slow, and be honest.  Not to say you aren't doing that, but just a reminder that the women you date may be looking for something serious or long term - and they don't deserve to get caught in this BPD mess.

Thanks again Max and yeah, I'm following your posts closely and I know that you're following mine as well because of the very similar situations.

I assume that my ex has me blocked on texting and email. I've sent a few little, positive texts and that email with no replies to any of them.  So once again, that shows me how easy it is for her to just walk away and I would have to think long and hard about any kind of r/s with her knowing that at any point, she could (and would) just walk away again.  I think the "hurt" that she mentions is not me telling her that I was there but that it *could* of been her that I was with and she realizes that.  I asked her on Friday if this guy really makes her happy (did I mention this already?), she said that she "thinks" that some day he will.  The mindset of a BPD right there for you.  He soothes her but she's still not fulfilled and that's where my role came in to play... . I filled the 'tweener' spots for when she wasn't with him and with whatever it is that he's missing that she needs. 

I'll let you all know *if* she breaks NC but really, I should do myself the big favor of just blocking her and letting it go... . but we know how hard that is. 

Re: new friend.  Totally agree Max.  I was just talking to a girl friend of mine and we talked about this same thing.  If the new lady friend begins to hint at a r/s or anything beyond just enjoying time together, then I'll have to be up front and let her know that I'm still very much healing and am not ready to rush in to anything serious at this point.  I definitely need to be up front about that with her.  She's a very sweet lady and I don't want more heartache and hurt for her, me or anybody because of my ex and my emotions/feelings. 

Good points, thanks again.  :)

Well got through nearly 2/3rds of the day and hadn't heard from the ex.  I figured blacked out as night and maybe I can finally separate myself from the situation.

I drove to the gym and spoke to my new lady friend who is an RN.  My son's rash is spreading and she had some kind and good advice on what to do to ease his suffering.  She's very caring, often saying "drive carefully please, it's raining!".  Stuff like that.  Endearing.

So I get to the gym and I'm on a treadmill sitting down lacing up my shoes and I feel it.  Crap.  I look up and yup, the ex is standing there before me.  She doesn't have a membership to this or any other gym mind you so she talks her way in each time.  She asks if we can talk: "it will take just 5 minutes".  Yeah, right.

We go to a quiet corner and she says that when I said in my text that "We were there too" she panicked.  Had a panic attack (she's mirroring because I've had two panic attacks in her presence when she would tell me about moments with my replacement.  I'd never had panic attacks before and it freaked her and me out).  She said that they were at a restaurant... . that my replacement didn't want to pay to go in to the crawfish event and that "it was not a very good day".  She started with how twisted this all is and that she knows that I don't understand the circumstances but she loves me but she can't be just my friend, etc.  I take that cue and I start to respond: "I told you that we were there to protect you.  I didn't want to bump in to you guys and I know that you didn't want to bump in to us.  Did you read my email?"  She replies "No.  It would hurt too much". 

I through out the validation for her crap and calmly but firmly set my boundaries.  "What about my hurt?  It's ok for you to lay in my bed with me, cuddling me, telling me how much you love me and then 2 hours later you're in <his> arms.  Do you not understand how that hurts me?  Can you validate the hurt that that causes me?".  She replies "Yes.  But I didn't come here for this".  Me: "oh but you did and you're on my turf now so you're going to hear it.  The biggest fear that I had about you was that every time you emotionally dysregulate, you push me away, block me and give me the silent treatment and you've proven yet again that that is exactly what you will do.  I was pushed out of our bedroom.  Pushed out of the home that we shared. Pushed out of the relationship and you fell in to another mans arms.  That crushed me.  Do you understand my hurt and fear and anger?".  She's crying by this time and tries to joust back "why did you text me with... . ".  Me: "did you not just hear me?  How many hours did I waste writing you letters explaining my emotions and my thoughts in a kind and understanding way only to not of been heard because you blocked me and didn't want to hear what I had to say?". 

I let out some more things that had been bottled up and told her that I love her but I cannot be in love with her any longer.  She loves another man now; "you're wrong" she interjects.  "I'm wrong about what, everything that I've said or that you don't love him?".  "It doesn't matter but you're wrong".  I told her that I've been on two dates with this lady and that she's very upbeat and I need that right now.  Oops, that was the tipping point.  "Well I'm happy for you and I can't do this any longer."  With that a hug and her tears falling on my shoulder and she left the gym.

I was pissed.  I was fired up pissed that she invaded my turf to come dysregulate and stir the pot.  I had a jog and then as I anticipated, a note was on my car.  I read the first line "Why did you... . " and I crumpled it up.  Didn't want any part of it.  If she was right there I'd tell her how I too can just ignore her words because they were hurtful.  Finger pointing and blame shifting.

Went home and I was happy, cheerful and felt relieved.  And then on my doorstep is the rose plant that she had planted at my moms grave. I had transplanted it because you can't plant live plants at the cemetary and I wanted to preserve it.  I don't have much of a green thumb and the plant was hurting.  She had taken it last week to nurse it back to health.  With the plant on my porch now was another note saying something to the effect of "I can't keep the rose bush.  It hurts too much. You nurse it back to health.  I love you, always" or something like that.  Bah!  Crumpled up that note too.

So I finally read her note.  More blame shifting and she says that she won't be with <him> much longer because she doesn't love <him> but she loves me.  And why am I out doing all the things that she wanted to do with me and why don't I understand how she did stand by me for years, even when she was hurt, to try and make things work.  Total guilt trip.  She concluded it with:

"So this is what they call a 'tragedy'.  It's a kind of play, look it up.  There will never be another me... . there will never be another you.  There will never be another us.  I love you - I always will".

That contact will send me in to a tailspin tomorrow most likely.  Right now I'm strong and content though.  Called my new lady friend and we're both going to get up in the wee hours of the morning to watch the lunar eclipse "together" (apart but both watching).  I told my ex what I said in the email that she didn't bother to read: that *if* I were to get involved seriously with this girl, it would be for the wrong reasons and with the wrong person and that I so much wanted to be downtown with her (ex) and I know inside that she wanted to be there with me, but here we are... . so close together in proximity yet we just can't make it work because she's "stuck". 

|THIS| close to blocking her... . Lord give me the strength... . it's the perfect exodus right now if I can only muster the strength to do it and hold on and keep doing it!

Yes, this is a grand drama.  The emotions are intense, heightened, just as in an opera.  You both are stars, enacting a grand recurring tragic myth repeatedly: 

This is not a criticism.  It's an observation and it is by now becoming obvious to you both.  The difference between you both is that while she strives to be on stage, under the bright shiny lights forever, even if they burn her, you know that this level of emotion cannot be sustained without a person burning out.

Anxiety is not the same thing as excitement.

A sugar high is not the same thing as slow and steady nutrition.

Muscles made from good old fashioned sweat are not the same as those made with steroids.

Addiction is not the same thing as Love.

This will continue until some one has the courage to say,  "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!"

This courage will not come until one of you have worked off the enjoyment of both participating in and being the spectator of this drama.  Again, I use the term "drama" in its literal sense and not as a criticism.  Both of you are acting from a predictable and cyclical script.  It is as old as myths and history and folk tales and lost loves and tears and suffering and grandness and intensity and larger than life cravings.

Looks like you do want to break the cycle.  Counseling would be immensely helpful.  You are dealing with addictive chemicals in your brain right now.  It is the adrenaline rush that you both seem to be addicted to.  Unfortunately you can only save yourself.

Your new relationship in itself is not a cure all.  You are as guilty of triangulating as she is.  I would seriously suggest counseling because this addiction is not easy to let go.

I hope this will help: 

www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

As much as I agree with what Pallavirajsinghani says... . that this is an addiction with each partner playing out their parts over and over... .   going to counseling is not a magical cure.  I say this out of experience.  I have been going to counseling for a year and a half.  My therapist, not the first I've sought out, has pointed out the addiction but gives no real help.  I can talk thru the entire drama of my own with my friends and wind up having better understanding of my own huge role in the dysfunction.  I realize many will say to find another therapist - but I have reached out to many.  I live in a major city.  Therapists do not truly understand the addiction.  They have read about it, but they don't understand it.  I truly don't mean to knock any suggestions for help - I think everyone should try any means they can.  I suport In-N-Out in whatever way possible on these boards to find himself in a place that he is healthier and happier.  It's a brutal addiction.

I suppose I am jaded with the concept of therapy at this point.  These boards and my friends who know what has gone on in my world with my ex, along with reading about trauma bonds and addiction are what have truly helped me understand my own motives for taking part in the unending drama. 

In-N-Out... .   we all just want you to succeed in finding happiness... .   you do deserve it.

Sorry for my somewhat negative post response here... .   I just wanted to point out the difficulties that I've encountered... .   and hope you do find success on your end... .    

The same old story:  She can tell you how much you hurt her, but if you start telling her how much she hurt you, she shuts down.  Been there, done that.  This week, in fact.  And I am sure you want to hear is, "I walked out on you - I'm sorry, I didn't realize how much you were hurt, and I am truly sorry of that and hope you can forgive me."   Seems so simple, but will you get it?  Doubt it.  Maybe an "I'm sorry but... . "  I expressed last weekend that months of constant criticism had me not wanting to eat with her for awhile, and sometimes I am still self-conscious.   Just a simple acknowledgement that I was hurt would helped.  Instead, "I was really irritable at everyone during that time.  Why didn't you leave me?"

She knows it was mean an hurtful, she's said as much.  But never an acknowledgement or apology for *me* being hurt.

Apologies are difficult for many people, but for pwBPD it seems natural for them to make it about themselves.  But heck, we validate and apologize like crazy to them, and they demand it, and expect it.

I'm really sorry you are dealing with this, but I'm proud of the strength you are showing.  Only you can decide if blocking her is the best option, because if she want she will track you down at the gym again, or leave notes on your door or car. 

Thanks for the reply and the link to the story pallavirajsinghani.  I've saved that pdf in a special folder on my computer that I have with all of the stuff related to this experience.

Thanks Take2 and Max.  I always appreciate the feedback.

Yes, more high drama.  I was up at zero dark thirty to watch the lunar eclipse last night.  This is the kind of stuff my ex loves; her mom will have been calling her telling her to go look out at the moon and her lunatic dad would be predicting that it signifies the end of the world.  I was outside, bundled up and yup, started missing the ex.  But I was proud of myself (at the time) because I resisted the temptation to drive over to her place to watch it with her.

Got up this morning, groggy after only 3 hours of sleep and I was in auto-pilot mode.  I don't know why or even thinking about it but I went and bought 2 dozen roses, a card and then drove to my ex's place.  Oh don't you sigh at me!    I hear you all now.  Just hang with me here.  My ex was at work by this time so I drove over and laid out roses all around her house, on her porch, in her potted plants, in the windows, on the fence... . just everywhere.  I wrote a simple card saying that I couldn't read her note because it began with "Why did you... . " but that through the hurt that we have *both* felt, we have grown (apart implied) and we had felt love.  I left that on her doorstep.

I went through the day at work and she has me blocked on texting and FB and probably email.  So I didn't hear from her.  I thought of her often but wasn't sad or depressed; I just didn't feel anything.

Came home, got dressed and went to the gym.  A bit of anxiety (ok, a good bit) crept in as I kept expecting to look up and see her standing there as has happened a few times now.  It didn't happen.  I finished my workout and after a dozen "F it's" about ever contacting her again, I headed straight to her house.  Auto pilot mode again.  I had on cue one of our songs.  As I pulled up to her house, she was out front, collecting the roses and I rolled down the window and started playing the song.  Out of a movie.  "Say Anything" or any one of her favorite chick flicks.  She put down the roses and ran to me and we kissed and held each other and she was in absolute tears and trembling.  She muttered that it was the most romantic thing that anybody had ever done for her. 

We talked, hugged, kissed and I was quiet.  I didn't want to say too much.  I'd get into the "why did you block me, that hurt me" and such.  It just wasn't the moment.  Reality did hit when she mentioned the impending doom cruise that she's going on.  She put her hand over my heart and said that she'd been a bawling mess all day, that she doesn't love (replacement) but loves me and if only she can just get through this cruise that she so desperately wants to go on she can figure things out.  That she bought a beach hat to try and psyche herself up for the cruise but that she's excited for the cruise itself but not the circumstances.  It hurt to hear it but I didn't say anything.  I did begin an exodus however.

We shared videos that we had both taken of the moon; her alone at her house, me at mine.  I told her that before her, I wouldn't of paid much attention to it, let alone get up in the wee hours of the morning on a work night to watch it.  I thanked her for showing me how to appreciate the beauty in Gods world.  We kissed again on the porch, said "I love you's" and I said "I don't know exactly when you're leaving for this cruise and I don't want to know.  All that I will say is 'see you around'".  And with that, I drove off.

I've blocked her from texting me.  I think she probably leaves this coming weekend for the cruise or it may be the next which is my birthday.  My Christmas was destroyed over the chaos of a recycle and being painted black and I refuse to let that happen over my birthday.  So I don't want to hear anything.  I don't want to hear any more "I love you, not him, but I'm in a mess".  Half-truths, unspoken lies, whatever it is that swirls around in her fragile eggshell mind (to steal a quote), I don't want to hear it right now and not for a while.  Maybe I'll unblock her next month.  Maybe not.  Maybe things will work out with her and my replacement.  Maybe things will be exciting and fun with the replacement that I've met for her.  That is sick, twisted and wrong and I know it but somehow I've felt like I've taken lessons from a pro and now I'm applying what I've learnt.  So wrong.  I just don't feel right now.  I just want some "normalcy" in my life. 

But of course, sadness and depression may... . correction... . will hit and who knows if auto-pilot will kick in again.  Damn, I don't know.  So tired.  Max, I think that we're both very much the same.  We're stuck in the "fix it" mode because we both feel like we are so close to breaking through to them... . we see the signs that we are getting through but then we just can't close the deal.  Almost like dealing with a dementia patient; not to make light of that horrible disease (my father is suffering from it now) but it's like we get a response to our output and we are renewed in hope only to see them gaze back off in to emptiness again and failing to recognize who we even are.  That's how this feels to me.

To be continued... . (?)

So sweet yet it breaks my heart for you In-N-Out... .   I know how badly you want this to work with her.  How much you are trying to show her how much you love her... . the truly heartbreaking thing is that you can't love this disorder away.  I too have tried and tried and tried.  I have allowed every boundary to be crossed.  I have tried to tell myself too that I won't allow this treatment anymore with each shattering.  At least for me, it has only gotten so much worse.  My attempts to reach "him" (the him I know, the one that loves me) do get thru eventually, like your dementia patient, but it's so fleeting now and it's not a gaze back off into emptiness that comes afterward... . it's a raging, angry, scary man who comes at me... .    A different scenario than yours, but I think that either way, boundaries are being crossed.  You are showering her with love as she's about to go on a cruise with another man.  She won't figure anything out on that cruise.  I hate to say that... .   trust me I do.  She will just come back.  The NC that the cruise will impose on you will be a good thing.  You will not be able to see or hear from her at all.  That will be good time for YOU.   By reading what you are writing I can understand my friends' concerns about me - that I keep putting my heart on the line for someone who has and will continue to keep shattering it... .   and like they tell me, please focus on YOU and what you truly deserve... .

Thanks Take2 and I'm feeling good about my decision yesterday. 

Instead of getting to the point of utter frustration and leaving when mad at one another and being painted black and finding ways to hate each other - I have left when things were good.  As Merle Haggard sang; "Some day when things are good, I'm gonna leave you". It was a perfect, bittersweet goodbye.

I have her blocked from all forms of communication except of course a visit to my home or gym.  The app will send her a positive message if/when she texts; saying something to the effect of "if it's meant to be" and that I won't stop believing in her.  A short, positive message.

If (er, when) she does show up at my doorstep, I will find a way to say that the only thing that she can say to me is that she can show me that she has left the other r/s and wants to continue (start really) getting help and that she just wants me to know that.  I'll tell her that there's nothing more to be said... . we've done and said it all already.  I have to see that she has a willingness to want to make more self discovery and a willingness to learn to better handle emotions and her decision making from a professional.  Until then, fly high butterfly... . I won't stop believing in you.

I/O, you've shown a tremendous amount of strength and love.  The amount of patience and understanding you have shown to your ex is impressive and admirable.  If love could her heal her, you would have done it for certain.  You couldn't have tried any harder to reach her and help her.  You have shown her tremendous love, and that is not something you should feel badly about at all.  You acted with love and you gave it your all.

Like so many of our exes, your ex just can't (won't?) bring herself to accept help and finally let go of these incredibly self-destructive thought patterns and behaviors.  Your ex is right, it *is* a tragedy.  BPD is a treatable disorder.  pwBPD can lead stable and even happy lives with effective treatment.  It is so tragic that so many pwBPD refuse every offer of help, even when they *know* that something is very wrong with them.  When they are miserably unhappy.  It's heartbreaking.

I hope and pray that your ex will find it in herself to finally take that step.  I will pray for her.  I pray every single day for the same for my ex.  There really is nothing else I can do.  I have tried everything.  I pray with all my heart and all my soul that Jesus send His healing upon her.  And I pray the same for your ex.

Stay strong.  We will get through this.

Thanks Cosmo.

Came home from the gym and a gift bag was on my doorstep with a note.  Inside were a couple of placards about "Hope".  The card said simply, "somewhere, someway, somehow, someway.  I will love you forever". 

What could I do?  I unblocked her from texting long enough to send a "thank you for the gifts, they are very sweet".  Not more than 2 minutes later my son tells me that my ex is at the door. Yes, stalking.

I invite her in but she won't come in.  I go outside but it's chilly so I get my car keys and invite her in to the car.  She asks "why?" and I told her that the original intention wasn't to be a goodbye, but as she spoke she mentioned (him) and how caring he is and how he will do anything for her and that he loves her very much and that coupled with the impending cruise it dawned on me that she was in no hurry to leave that situation.  That I would be in this limbo forever potentially and that I won't be able to heal as long as I am.  That's why it turned in to a goodbye.  I told her that I love her that much; enough to set her free to figure things out and that if she does figures things out and I'm to be part of the plan, she can find a way to let me know.

She said that she can't just come back because she's afraid.  Afraid that things will go "dark" again.  That though I wasn't cruel or malicious, things were said that really hurt her.  I validated that fear but emphasized that those were things in the past.  A r/s would have to be brand new and with the new knowledge that I've learned since the breakup.  The things that I've learned about her, about me and about how communicate.  I then asked her to communicate with me.  "What is it that you want from me?".  She couldn't answer that.  I asked her if she wants me to wait for her.  She said "that's not fair to you, you're moving on, keep doing what you're doing".  I asked then does she want me out of her life?  "No, I can't imagine you not being in my life".  I said so if you want me in your life, what are you prepared to do to make sure that I am?  What do *you* want?  Again, she couldn't answer; "I don't know".  This went back and forth for several minutes.  I finally said, I can't take an "I don't know" back inside that house with me and keep hanging on to "hope". An "I don't know" doesn't sound very hopeful to me.  I pressed: can you make a decision?  You say that you're not happy with him.  You just said that he's not the one.  Why are you still in that r/s then?  Can you help me to understand that?  "No, I can't tell you... . (inferring that I'd get mad or hurtful)".  I assured her that I will give her as much understanding as I can - just help me to understand what it is she wants.  Couldn't do it, wouldn't do it. 

I told her then that I have to set her free.  I have to work on myself.  She said "I feel like the burdon is all on my shoulders".  I told her that unfortunately, it is.  I've made my intentions known.  She knows what I would like- to give "us" another shot, but that the decision to do so rests with her.  She's involved with somebody else that "isn't right for her", yet she can't walk away.  She's stuck in the past with previous hurt and afraid of the future.  She said that she shouldn't of come "I keep f'ing things up".  I told her that I was glad that she came, that now I know... . it's an "I don't know what I want" and that's the best that I would ever get from her.  I shouldn't of said it but it just came out; "maybe the love isn't as strong as you think".  That was an invalidating and personal attack and out came the "I don't deserve that".  I started to become defensive and I saw this going downhill quickly.  I said that I was sorry; but I tried.  I've tried everything that I could and with that I waved goodbye and walked inside.  I heard her huff as in "not even a goodbye kiss?".

She's probably still sitting outside in her car.  In BPD fashion, she just can't make any sound decisions; even a life or death decision and she will turn things on to me to justify her lack of decision making ability; "I'm afraid that you'll hurt me again".  Well I had more faith in us than that, but that is her way of justifying a non answer. 

And so what was a beautiful and happy goodbye last night is a hurtful and sad goodbye but maybe that's the only way it could of been.  She said that I don't have to block her any more, that she won't text.  I don't trust that- she can't make decisions like that.  She'll just keep doing what she has done instinctively since childhood; keep reaching out to the "parent" to try and get some soothing and that's as best that she can hope for with anybody... . temporary soothing and when that soothing stops, she moves on, with justifications in her mind as to why she has to do it that way.  Maybe to her its shame based "I deserve to be miserable".  Only a T could help her resolve that.  I can't do it.  I can't try any more.

Before anybody replies, I realize my error in that situation last night.  It should not of happened but I guess inside, I really wanted her to make another appeal.  It was a beautiful and graceful exodus for us the night before and I allowed her to come in and ruin that with what we have now- a split to where we're mad at one another, hurt, angry, upset.  I shouldn't of said anything the gifts.  I should of told my son to tell her that I cannot see her.  I screwed that one up. 

Some interesting observations though.  She said at one point last night that "I guess that you're stronger than I am about this".  I thought on that last night afterwards (I need to stop that too) and realized that she wanted me to break down yet again, sobbing in her arms as she's sobbing in mine, to then have a goodbye the way she wants it... . tearful and leaving me in a "wanting" mode so that she can say goodbye for now (bon-voyage... . cruise time!) and then have me hanging around still waiting in the wings.  When I didn't go that route and stood my ground and confronted her on just what the hell she wants in life, she commented that she feels like she's being beaten up and that the burdon is all on her.  Very clinical, very textbook personality disorder.  It needs to sink in but for them, their attachments are very much child-parent.  Her leaving an attachment would be like her leaving her parents.  She can't and won't do it *until* she feels threatened enough with abandonment or more likely (in my ex's case) if she finds a new foster parent.  My prediction (and this isn't such a bold prediction), but she will be with someone else within a month, maybe two.  The r/s with (him) is tainted, I honestly can sense her pulling away, yet she won't give us a chance because that's going backwards in her mind (and she's right), so the next step is forwards to a clean slate. 

Very sad.  I need to stop feeling sorry for her but I can't.  I know that she sees it.  Max can relate to this.  I think that we all can relate to this.  The analogy with a dementia patient is probably the most accurate.  Mid stages alzheimers to where there's moments of clarity and joy and then suddenly, when pressed for more, complete fog and a blank stare.  Thanks for the prayers Cosmo, she needs them, I need them.  We all here need them.   

Bingo.  I sat in T office last night with her, and this was basically her thing - that she feels the burden is all on her, and she's jumped through all these hoops, and I still haven't proposed to her.  The T tried to explain to her that she was creating her own roadblocks, to which she replied, "I can't help it, this is how I am".  The hoops?  Well, she's met my entire family now.  She looks at meeting my family as a criteria of mine that she must meet first - the "burden" to her is to meet my family?  Yes, I/O, it's the same situation here - she feels like it is up to her - and it is - she has freedom (!) and that is a good thing, but she doesn't see it that way. 

Well at least yours knows what she wants (to be married).  Now whether it is to be married to *you* or to just be married is something that you will have to figure out.  Mine seemed to be very focused too.  We were engaged and I was welcomed in to her family and she was planning the wedding, reseverd the chapel, etc but something in my gut was screaming "Warning Will Robinson!".  I felt FOG after our initial breakup because I wasn't as active as she was to get the wedding planned (her parents weren't involved at all either by the way).  What I've since realized is that in the case of my ex, she just wanted to be married because that makes her appear "normal".  It would show her parents that she's marriage material after all and she's just like everybody else that falls in love and gets married.  I just happened to be the one that was willing enough to go along with the plot until my gut check had me pull out.

I don't want to put any more negative thoughts or add to the worry that you already have Max.  I'm sure these thoughts have crossed your mind.  Is it *you* that she wants to spend the rest of her life with?  I just know that in the case of my ex, her goals in life are 1) find a suitable host, marry him and have kid (though she finally realizes that having a kid now is very unlikely) 2) write her life story and post selfies on facebook 3) listen to every heartbreak song on YouTube 3) cry in her garden if all else fails at the moment. 

Interesting - I've thought of it that way.  And she has vocalized it as such - as to marriage to me specifically?  Yes, I think so, but I am not sure how to tell.  She tells me of two other occasions where she wanted to marry someone, two times when she got her heart really broken.  I really don't want to know the details of those, but I can tell she sees something "different" in me.  But even if she sees something different in me, I still feel there is strong components of "I want to get married and have a kids to help me feel normal (or have parents love her, etc)".  And probably some of "I want to get married to prove to myself that I am worthy, and those two jerks who broke my heart *were* to blame."  How do I know that?  Well, I think I have a bit of those two statements inside of me (well I did years ago) but I can dismiss those feelings as irrational whereas she is controlled by them and have gotten stronger with age.

Just to keep this journal updated - yes, of course we've been seeing each other and today (Easter) was not an exception. 

I saw her yesterday morning at her house.  We're now doing this semi-stalking thing where we just show up unannounced which I know is just potential trouble and is troublesome but that's where we are.  She had blocked my phone Friday night after she came over to my place unannounced.  She was upset because she knew (sensed) that I had been out on a date and I had.  She dysregulated in my driveway and I wasn't having any of it.  It wasn't an argument but I just wasn't in to the whole "validation, step all over me" routine and so I told her that I was concluding the talk.  I knew that she had blocked my texts after that. 

So, after my morning workout Saturday, I went to her place.  The pattern that I'm seeing now is when I go to her "haven", she's ok but when she comes here, she is much more likely to dysregulate.  This visit was no exception.  We talked.  We hugged. We danced in her bedroom.  She was getting her house ready; her parents were coming in to town and my replacement was coming over to join them, all within a couple of hours. 

I left and she sent messages throughout the visit.  She spoke of how happy she was to see her parents; that they were in good spirits and she was so happy that her dad remarked how wonderfully she has decorated the house.  She really has done a wonderful job.  I keep telling her that she needs to find a way to make money "decorating on a budget" because everything in that house is from Goodwill or the Salvation Army or otherwise was heavily discounted.  She really has done an amazing job with it and the yard.  Flowers planted everywhere... . I'm quite impressed. 

Everybody (including replacement) was gone by 7p.m. and she began texting me.  Very clingy; really turning on the "you are the one" type of stuff.  She called to say goodnight and it was a very endearing phone call.  I'm still being very cautionary about getting my hopes up for anything though - let's see if her actions start to match her words.  Well... .

I mentioned last night that I would be attending Easter service at our church.  She hasn't been back to it since we split and in fact, she's fallen away from the church.  That was such a HUGE part of her previously.  I invited her to join me, not expecting her to agree to AT ALL but she did say that she would think about it. 

Went to church and sure enough, text came in "where are you?  I can't find you!.  Meet me out front".  I did and I held her hand and escorted her in to the service.  I shed some happy tears - it had been over a year since we had been to church together and we had both shed so many tears in this church in the past.  Tears over worries of how to pay bills, was this the right relationship, so much stress - all that we lifted up to God and HE got us through some very tough times.  Those emotions came to me at this instance and she wiped my tears.

The message of resurrection was spot on; talking about how "if there ever is to be a comeback, there has to first be a setback".  Jesus' setback was being placed on the cross but in HIS plans, the comeback happened.  She cried during the closing prayer and she opened my hand and wrote the word "HOME" on my palm. 

After service, we went to one of our usual shopping spots (bookstore) which happened to be open.  We danced in the aisles to the soft music that was playing.  She then told me that she had a talk with her mom.  She said that she told her mom that she didn't love (him) and that she (her mom) sensed that.  She said that she told her mom that whatever happens with her and (him), that she will be ok and her mom said "as long as I know that you will be ok, I will be ok with your decision".  She said that she didn't mention me but that she wouldn't be surprised one bit if they could guess what was going on.  She said that she also spoke with her dad about her job (where (his) mom works with her) and that she has to leave it.  She blames the office manager that she doesn't get along with and didn't mention that she would want to get away from (his) mom in case she did break up but that was implied.  She said that her dad said that he understood and that his only advice was to this time have something else lined up first.  Those enouraging words gave her the strength to begin to make the move away. 

Now, again, actions are the key here and I know that.  I'm certainly hearing things that I've been wanting to hear for a long while now... . signs that she was finally working to get "unstuck" from her current situation but again, I'll see if she starts to follow that up with any actions before I start to get too hopeful.  Very encouraging what I heard though.

We finished the day with some yogurt and her head on my shoulders on the drive home.  Our goodbye was again "you are my home.  I want to come home". 

"Comfortably numb" is what comes to mind right now.  I'm at peace, happy and somewhat optimistic but I know fully well that by this time tomorrow we could very well be NC again because of some dysregulation from *something*.

Hi In-N-Out... .   you didn't say how you guys wound up seeing eachother again after the last goodbye the other day?  I am curious about what happened with you guys as well as admittedly painfully searching for any behaviors that I can relate back to my own severely painful situation (which is currently nothing like yours anyway)... .

What about the cruise?  when is it?

I know how good it feels to have times like these that you just shared with her... . I truly, truly hope it will continue for you... .   I rooting for you!

Something about your story makes me want to feel really sad for your ex.  She seems like she has good intentions, just are overwhelmed by confusion.  That's the real heartbreaking part of this disorder, and the part that keeps us hooked.  If the disregulation were constant, we'd tire and eventually have enough.  It's those pwBPD that seem to want the confusion to end, seem to see the right path, but just have a hard time staying on it that are just so hard to walk away from.  And I am sure I from your end, you just want to see the light bulb go off - that she knows what she wants, realizes she can have what she wants, but that she has to do the work and is willing.  it seems like she is getting there - but really, I'm sure it has seemed like that many, many times before. 

As for the "comfortably numb" - I think we probably have to have some of that to be in a r/s with a pwBPD.  To make it work long term, hold on to the boundaries that are essential (maybe in regards to infidelity, physical abuse, or drug abuse), and become somewhat "numb" to the rest - the indecisiveness, the occasional disregulation.  I've gotten to that point myself - wishing she was more capable, but accepting the reality of what is with a bit of numbness.

Hi Take2. 
 

I went by her house two days later and took a gamble that she would receive the visit ok.  It was last Saturday before her parents came to town.

But, major SNAFU caused by me this time last night.  Yesterday she reached out and asked if I could be at her eating spot for her lunch break.  I rearranged my schedule and made it happen and we had a wonderful, short lunch together.  I picked some wild-flower-weeds which brought a smile to her face and she talked about looking for a new job and that she too wants to "detoxify" (I did a body detox over the weekend).  All very positive stuff.

I came home, took a nap and was awoken with a sweet text from her.  I went to the gym and my chemical balance was off.  I have a nagging injury that prevented me from doing the weights that I normally lift with and though we had started texting just after she left work, the texting abruptly stopped.  My insecurities hit and I sent a text that I will forever regret sending.  It wasn't malicious (intentionally), it was just my insecurities coming out and I was fishing for a response that played off of jealousy and that was absolutely the worst thing in the world that I could of done.  It doesn't matter what it said.  It was just plain dumb because I was feeling down and insecure.  Totally my fault.

She replied with "don't $hit on my day.  Don't you do this to me!" and she said that she was going for a walk and shutting down her phone.  I stopped my workout and raced over to her place.  She was out walking.  She was pissed.  She doesn't rage, but she was boiling inside.  I JADE'd and things did not go well.  No arguing but no reprieve either.  I told her how sorry I was for that and what a dumbass I am but to her, it was something that I said intentionally just to hurt her. 

I sat out in my car in her driveway for a bit beating my head against the steering wheel (almost literally but not quite). She did come back out and gave me a hug and said "go home.  Go be with your son".

I took a bath and while moping in self-pity my phone blew up with text messages from her.  She was unleashing now.  How I should go see my T, how this was what she feared the most; that it would go back to this.  That she was starting to believe in us again and now this.  She concluded the rampage with "no more".

So I sent off one email that said how truly sorry that I am, and that I did not send that text to hurt her intentionally, as much as I know it doesn't seem that way to her otherwise.  That I understand how that hurt her and how a beautiful Easter day with tears of joy, laughter and smiles was all wiped away and lost with a single, thoughtless, insensitive text from a guy that loves her very much but was feeling insecure at the moment.

I suspect she'll never read that.  And I know now that all that I can do is give her space and see if she cools off and reaches out to me again.  I don't know this time.  I did confirm all of her worst fears about us; what she's been saying all along as to why she can't just run back in to my arms. 

Pastor said on Sunday that there has to be setbacks before you can have your comeback.  Well, last night was one doozy of a setback and if there is a comeback, I don't know that it will be with her by my side.  It will be some other type of comeback but I have to just have faith that it is all in God's plans, or for you non-believers, that it is just fate as it was meant to be.

I will say that she was quite validating.  During the walk, she said "I know that you're hurting.  I know that I F'd up by getting in to something that I shouldn't have (replacement) and I'm working to resolve that (promising), but I *never* threw it in your face like you have done.  And for the record, I haven't been playing any games with you. I've been trying to figure out my life, for *me*".

The walk concluded when she said "I need to be alone now".  I told her that I understood and she said "no, I mean I need to be alone.  Not with you, not with (him), just alone".

She's absolutely right and I'm really down right now.  In shock at my stupidity. 

Wow, well it's been awhile since I posted on these boards. INO I've followed your story up until now and felt as though I needed to post. I have to commend you for sticking with this for as long as you have. It seems that you're very deep in the FOG. Reading your post, I would get happy when you would decide to block her and get on with your life. Then I would get a bit upset when you would go back to suffer. I know you want to work things out with her, but I honestly think you really just need to give her some space. Focus on you and making yourself happy. Weren't you kind of dating someone? What happened with that? I'm going to be blunt, but you need to stop sacrificing your happiness on something that isn't even certain. I'm much younger than you, but I've been down this road already and it doesn't end well trust me.

Maybe sometime down the road you two can reconnect, but it obviously isn't working right now and you shouldn't be feeling guilty about having an insecurity you're only human. Be gentle with yourself. She's telling you to go see your T... . what about her? Is she seeing her T? I bet she isn't. She's placing blame on you to push it off herself. You need to man up my friend and stop taking this abuse from her. I'm sorry if I am coming off as harsh, but I just feel bad for you and the situation. I know you will continue to talk to her and try to work things out. But when will enough be enough? If this is going to continue might I suggest starting a blog?

Well, a bit of encouragement that I really needed.  A text from her just now:

":)on't have the strength to read your email, just yet... . I love you.  That will always be."

Still really down on myself right now but that text was somewhat comforting.  Now I'm in the Guilt part of the FOG, wondering if it's been me that's been the problem all along. 

Probably best to do so.  Or just keep a private journal.  This is a r/s that has a guy that has bouts of depression and insecurity issues mixed with a pwBPD and as much as we love each other, that is just a lot of challenges to overcome.

Thanks all that participated, including sirhero, for all of your advice and input.  I really do appreciate it. 

Hang in there, I/O.  A relationship with a pwBPD is one of the hardest relationships one can ever have.  You really do have to sort of completely remove your needs and wants from the relationship to make it work.  It takes an enormous amount of selflessness  to do.  I'm not sure it's sustainable for anyone to keep up forever.  Sooner or later you are inevitably going to have a normal human response to something and there will be hell to pay.   You know all this, of course.  You've said as much in this thread.  My point, however, is try not to be hard on yourself.  Maybe you said something that you regret, but you are sorry and you apologized.  Most people are capable of weighing the one mistake a partner makes against the countless hours of love and care they have also given.  pwBPD can't do that, of course.  If you hurt them, everything else is out the window.  You are a terrible person and all the wonderful things you have done cease to exist.  You have shown SO much love and patience and understanding to your ex.  The good you have done towers above any mistakes that you have made (and we ALL make mistakes in relationships - including our pwBPD).  Don't be too hard on yourself, buddy.

And I enjoy keeping up on what's going on with you.  You keep right on posting if you want to do so.

Hang in there, man.  I feel for you.  I know these relationships are both heaven and hell.

Thanks Cosmo, I do appreciate the pep talk.

I was really down today but refrained from texting aside from the short reply when she said that she didn't have the strength at the moment but loves me (anyways).  Then just a little while ago, she sent a picture of her feet in the grass with her red lunch box/bag thingie that I got her years ago... . she simply said "my lunch today".  I thanked her for sending the picture and she replied "please just give me some time".  So I'm going to give her some kudos here.  I know that the stupid text that I sent triggered some past hurt.  I can say some stupid things (can't we all?) and as we know, a pwBPD takes that stuff to heart.  I've never said anything malicious - never called her a name or even cursed at her, but I've invalidated her emotions and that is a sore spot so this episode last night obviously triggered that.  However, instead of just painting me black and going NC, she simply said "just give me some time". 

Now she may process it and say "you know what, he's hurt me one time too many and that was it" or she may realize that the good things have far outweighed the few negative things.  In either case, at least she's saying "let me have some time to process it" and not just running.  I'll take the positive from that and give her the space she's asking for.

Hoping for the best for you.  I think you are right on - give her some space.  I'm 99% confident she will contact you soon.  I keep praying she sees the light and starts realizing she needs some help to be happy.  So she can have a happy marriage and a stable life and all the things she deep down wants but has no idea how to get.  I'll keep praying for you guys.

Hopefully "give me some time" means "give me some time to deal with my issues" not "give me some time to process how you hurt me."  I've got a feeling that she means the former, because if it was the latter, why even bother telling you that?

And if that is the case - that's a very good thing.  That means she is backing away from the situation with you (and your replacement) to take a look at herself.  I can tell you that is something my girlfriend talks about doing, but is completely incapable.  If she were to say to me one day, "I need a week by myself to clear my head", sure I may be a little worried, but logically I think that is what she needs to do to actually work on herself.  If your ex is like my GF, she's probably not had more than a few days alone in her whole adult life.  I bet she has pretty much gone from one dating partner to the next, and if somehow she has done more than a few weeks, finds the next available guy.  Am I right?  Never time to sit and think of what she actually wants in a r/s.  Hell, my GF has a hard time just having lunch by herself.  So your ex taking time to think could be a very good thing.  Of course, the end result could be an answer that leaves you without her, and you have to be okay with that.

Hate to be a buzz-kill, but isn't it cruise time?

Hope taking time isn't her opening up to the cruse.

Max, yes, that is correct.  Guy, after guy, after guy and she's talked openly about that and she has also very recently said that she just needs to find a way to spend the time alone to learn to love herself.  She's talked about how the thought of doing that makes her anxious and fearful but she knows that would be best.  Perhaps that is what she means.  She said so just the other night when she said "I need to be alone... . just me".

I don't know the dates of the cruise; it hurts to even bring it up to her but she did say months ago that it was in April.  That doesn't leave a lot of time.  She's at work today.  Maybe it got pushed back?  Maybe that was a lie?  Maybe she canceled and just didn't tell me because she didn't want me to think that would mean that she's ready to come back to me?  She did say the other day that she had bought some hats for the cruise so I don't know.  She's also said that she is looking forward to the cruise itself but not the circumstances (company).  She's also commented that she just wants to get through this cruise so that she can "take care of things"; that she can't back out because it would be too hurtful to them (can't get a refund) and just too hard of thing for her to do (too stressful a situation to deal with - just go on the cruise, fake a smile when around him and his family and try and have fun.  I know that's her thought process).

Text this morning - I kept NC overnight - "I love you".  I replied that it was comforting to hear that.  That I'm feeling down today; feeling like crap about the stupid thing that I texted and also down because I hit the big "50" tomorrow and life just isn't quite where I was hoping it would be at the half-century mark.  But I'm very grateful for those wonderful things that I do have and that I'm ok.  She replied "I'm here... . you're not alone".

I told her how much that I do appreciate her; and I really do.  I really love this woman and I know that both her and I have some issues so I don't know if we could work in a longterm r/s but I sure would love to have the chance to just date her again.

Quick update and I need advice from the panel.

Yesterday was my birthday.  The ex snuck over to my place in the middle of the night and decorated the front porch and my car with balloons and streamers and left a nice card saying how proud of me that she was and how much she loves me and always will.  She also said that she would meet me at the place that we had our first date four years prior tomorrow night (that would be tonight, 4/25).  So we have that "date" set up.  

She didn't join me for birthday dinner with my son.  I invited and she declined.  She later sent an email saying how tempted that she was but that she has plans for our "date" tonight and that "I will understand".  

She's been very "bonding" lately; much more talk of a future together, that type of stuff.  It really had my hopes on the rise.  I told her that all that I want right now is the opportunity to "date" her.  That we never dated.  She said that is what she always wanted with me.  Hopes on the rise and then this in this mornings email:


More than just a little deflating.  I know her and I know the BPD in her has negative thoughts creep in *constantly*.  The negativity causes drama in an otherwise joyous moment.  I also know that this is her "justification" for leaving me and going right to a replacement.

So my question; best to just blow off these types of comments?  Easy enough in an email but what if tonight she gets negative and this same thing comes up?  Best way to react with validation?  SET - the "truth" part... . do I mention how her negativity hurts me as well or that being negative about things in the past jeopardizes a future?  Any suggestions here welcomed.

So I'm thinking that at some point tonight I'm thinking of letting her know that I almost canceled the date tonight (which isn't a lie).  That I understand how I've said things to her that have hurt or upset her but that I too am hurt by her words and am concerned about her being negative and the "finger pointing"; that her email put 100% blame for the break up on me and that I too am hurt with words such as that.

Again, I know her reasons; she feels herself "caving" and so fears of engulfment creep in and so she goes negative.  How do I let her know how concerning to me that is without a dysregulation meltdown?  Or do I just ignore the moments of negativity and ride the positive waves (which the ration is up to 80-20 positive to negative at this point)?

I/O -  GRRRR!  I hate this aspect of BPD.  They do all this crap that hurts you, and you let it slide, say nothing, and radically accept, and they get all bent up over a little thing that you said out of frustration, making you out to be the biggest son of a gun on the planet.  Mine has hit me, been negative and depressed for 10 months, criticizes, invalidates, and complains, yet if I am 10 minutes later coming home from work and forgot to text message her, I'm an inconsiderate jerk who doesn't love or care about her.  And it's not just with me, I watch her do this with friends, doctors, and co-workers.  I watch people try and try and bend over backwards, but the minute someone is late or messes something up, they are incompetent fools that hate her.  

The reality?  It's not about me, or you, or anyone else.  Your ex is using those little things you said or did as excuses for her natural emotions or bad behavior.  So, she feels rage, she feels hurt, and she wants justification for why she feels that way.  But the truth is, we can't all be 100% validating all the time. Eventually, they will find something in our words or actions to justify their emotions, even if it is something they misinterpret or mostly make up. Thus, you can be perfect in every way, yet say "thank you" to a female waitress, and next thing you know, you are being accused of lusting after that waitress!  That's just a justification for her abandonment fears.  I suspect your ex being upset now really has to do with her not feeling ready to break it off with your replacement, not ready to be enmeshed with you again, not ready for change, and finding an excuse to stall and blame her "not ready" emotions on you.  

Should you blow it off?  Well, what she said was pretty invalidating to *you* because she is implying that your hurt doesn't matter.  But, I think this is just par for the course with BPD, and I think we have to blow off most these comments slide if we are to have a r/s with a BPD, especially when they seem to be in a stage of instability.  Just know it isn't about you.  There's no problem in trying to get her to understand that you were hurt, too, but make sure you validate the hell out of her feelings first, and if she doesn't fully grasp that she was hurtful, don't press it.  In my experience, it does soak in.  There are times when I have mentioned to her things she did that were hurtful and got frustrated that she chose not to apologize.  Yet days later, she would bring it up, usually asking if she still does those things or asking if I still feel hurt.  

As for mentioning the negativity - yikes. The first time I brought this up to my GF, it turned into a 2-day rage that included self-harm behavior, threats of suicide, and the police being called.  Your ex probably already knows she is too negative.  I'm sure dozens of friends, family, and exes have told her that before.  I'm learning that rather than saying "you are too negative and that hurts me" (to which she hears as me blaming her for my emotions = rage).  So, it would do you no good to tell her something she already knows.  I'm learning it is better to simply encourage her to be more positive rather than bring up that she is too negative.  So, if she talks about how life sucks, how much she hates herself, how much Jane Q Public pissed her off, I will respond, "I'm sorry you are frustrated.  Life stinks sometimes.  What can help you feel more happy about things?"  Challenge her to look for positives - try and re-direct her thoughts.  For example, yesterday she was texting me on and on about how worthless she feels and how much she hates herself and how she hasn't done anything all day.  So I replied, "I'm sorry you are so down.  You have a lot to deal with right now.  Have you played with the guinea pig yet today?"  And what did she do?  took the guinea pig out, then started messaging me about how cute the guinea pig is.

Just saw your update - am I reading correctly 80% positive, 20% negative?  WOW!  I'd take that in a heartbeat!  I deal with 70% negative, 20% neutral, and 10% obsessive (positive, but not healthy positive - "you are the only thing that makes me happy", etc)

Well it might of just flipped 20/80 and it may be all she wrote.  She sent a text asking if we could move the date back to 8:00.  I said "Sure, 8:00 is fine.  Busy day?"  She replied:


I stewed on it but didn't reply.  Invalidated again.

She then sent a text:


I couldn't hold back:

"I'm going to be there at 7:00.  My original intent was to go and reflect on the happiness of our first meeting and I'm going to do that.  I too have been hurt by things said and done and feel a lack of validation for my feelings of what I've been through too.  It hurts to be solely blamed for the breakup.  I wasn't "fishing".  That is invalidating as well.  I was so happy this morning and then your email.  Why?"

No replies.  I've dysregulated.  She's no doubt dysregulated.  We can't get through 2 days without an episode.  You know the routine Max, you just outlined it.  I have some emotions because... . well, let's see, I was left for another guy and she's about to go on a cruise with him... . and then I'm blamed for the break up and for being insecure and causing the problems.

Like she just said... . "I can't do this".

Oh man... . sounds like you just reached your limit.  I'm sorry.  I feel bad for you.  And I feel bad for her.  Keep in mind, you haven't done anything wrong.  There's nothing wrong with telling her that you are hurt.  You weren't mean about it, you weren't invalidating.  You were hurt, and rightly so. 

I feel myself running into the same roadblock when moving forward.  I just don't feel right unless she starts recognizing or accepting that her behavior is really hurtful to me at times.  I don't expect the behavior to stop, but for her to just accept that I've been deeply hurt by things is something that would help with trust - trust that she actually does love me and not just say she loves me.

take good care of yourself today.  My bet?  She will show up at 7.  But who knows.

She's trying hard - and so am I.  I'm quite proud of the exchange that we just had.  In a nutshell, she said that she didn't mean to be invalidating; that she was simply trying to convey why this has been so hard for her and to convey her emotions "but apparently not very well".  That we have to be able to communicate without hurting one another and that she has been looking forward to tonight very much... . "sharing it with you". That she loves me and "I'm sorry.  So very sorry about everything". 

I validated and told her how much I'm looking forward to tonight as well.  That I'll be there at 7:00 as originally planned but will just simply wait until she gets there.  That I love her too and that we can get through these challenges, we have every time.

Max: I'll send you a PM.  Since we are in common situations and have been leaning on each other here on the forum, maybe we could communicate offline (email, IM, texting, whatever) to support one another?