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Hi All,

Just a question... . I know that many people have trouble with the whole sex/BPD thing. Have any of you had any great sex with someone who doesn't have BPD after the relationship? I'm guessing that the whole sex thing with my ex was so great because it really tapped into a really deep part of me that hasn't really been healed. It was pretty exciting sometimes. Other times, it was weird (a lot of 'look deeply into my eyes' kind of creepy stuff and a lot of 'I must connect with you first before we have sex'. I guess like the entire r/s, it was a flip between great and terrible. The sex though, when it was great, was incredible. I'm really still feeling the lose of this.

Anyone? Ideas?

I agree the sex was what kept us going, she would tell me that is was the only thing we did good together who knows if she meant it , but I know I did crazy at times and so much fun, before I married my soon to be ex she, believe it or not left me for a bit, I started seeing this other girl just friend but she was adorable and so fit tiny little thing one thing led to another and we were in bed guess what the first few times it took me some time to  ummm... . get wood, and I now know why I was so into my ex I was afraid to do it, and now that she has left me again I'm worried that it may happen again I'm not getting any younger. Oh boy

I had better sex after the BPD relationship, and the experience was much more intimate than it was with my ex.  My ex had sexual inhibitions, ED, and he was a pretty selfish lover.  I had to do all of the work. 

Thanks for saying that blissful.

I've read a zillion posts saying that sex was so amazing with a BPD and the addiction after b/u. I never felt that way with my ex. At first, it was pretty amazing... . not that she was any good in bed, but she seemed receptive to my desire to please and make her feel desirable. Not saying that I'm a stud or anything, but I do aim to please under the sheets. Then, after a while (a few months) it was just a mechanical act. Sometimes it was so laborious that I didn't even want to try. Funny thing is, after I confronted her on her infidelity, she made the statement that she liked sex, a lot and I don't have any problem doing it with people I don't want a relationship with.

I've had better sex with nons and it felt more real in the connection department.

Hmmm... . Ok. Thanks guys.

I guess I'm having trouble with the two sides of my ex in terms of sex. There was a side to her that was amazing (creative, sexy, stunning, adventurous) and there was a side that was brutal (controlling, critical, moody, weird eye gazing stuff, all kinds of bad). I am jonesing for the good. I feel like an addict.

And cantbreal: I had the exact same thing happen to me. Tried to hook up with this really cute girl. Small, great body, super fit. But nothing. So strange... . And annoying!

Willy,

Could it be unreal expectations? I get it that some of them are/seem very expressive, but could it be that she was picking up on your projections and acting on them? I don't mean to minimize your experience, but we who are drawn to pwBPD have our own wounds, which draws us to them... . Thus the feeding of our/their addictions for whatever. I don't know, I'm working through this just as you are.

hmmm... . yeah. I think there is something there for sure.

I think that my ex used sex as a weapon in a way. Well, maybe weapon is too harsh a word. But definitely, there was a look in her eyes that said "I got you". Thing is, I kind of liked it. Certainly that is something about me. I don't know. It is confusing. And it sucks. I was kind of done with fantasizing about her all the time. Maybe I would here and there but it didn't really carry any emotional weight. It was lessening. And then I talk to her 10 days ago and holy cow... . it's all back. Super sucks.

Many of my friends tell me she wasn't that hot. I thought she was. I thought she was the most beautiful girl I had ever seen. This sucks. I should stop thinking about it. It is making me sick again... .

The weirdest thing is that we dated for about 3 months and then I broke up with her. For a year she was after me. I didn't really find her attractive at all during that year. I didn't really even want to hang out with her. Blarg. I know this is all in my mind. I wish she hadn't contacted me and I wish I hadn't picked up. That was really dumb.

Oh buddy, I can completely feel what you mean.

Weapon is exactly what it was... . something you enjoyed and held over your head. I enjoy sex too, but not at the expense of it being meaningless and hollow. I'd rather go without. I guess that was a tension point for my r/s was I could go without if it felt wrong. I don't know.

I too was told that I was crazy and could do better by my closest friends, but I ignored their words. Again, one of the ploys of a BPD... . isolation.

I'm sorry you feel sick about your attraction. I'm sorry to seem harsh... . I'm doing it to myself if it helps any. I know I have so much to work out for myself, just hope in the process I can be of help

We can share a bucket to puke in if you want, I'm game to share and be a friend.

the sex i had in my healthy r/s after my xBPDgf had to have been the most consistently good sex ever. so xBPD got beat out in this regard. but i also had really good sexual experiences before. thinking about xBPDgf, well, sex was just good to really good, but not because she was some amazing person in bed, it was because i was in 'love' with her at the time. i actually don't recall having weird/hollow/meaningless sex with her either... . who knows what she was thinking though. so, when we had sex, i was satisfied--however, our *sex life* was something different. because of her issues with trust, spite and that she hated the way she looked, when the r/s started going south we barely had sex at all. we could stop for a while and i'd be fine. but towards the end of our r/s when it was really infrequent that's when alarms were going off in my head.

in short, i think we have to be careful and not give crazy people too much credit by saying they are better in bed. i've had amazing experiences with very nice (and naughty  *)), honest women who were free and passionate with their sexuality.

and regarding "sex as a weapon", it's funny you mention this. when i first started posting here i would talk about hersexisaweapon and hissexisaweapon -- i made up terms because it seemed to be such a common form of abuse. in my case though i wasn't referring to sex between me and my partner at the time, rather the shaming and punishment some pwBPD enjoy giving to their exes by shoving sex with other people in their faces.

One thing I knew was that I would never have such great sex again.  But you know what? I don't want it ever again. Look at where it comes from and whats behind it. Its destructive, its selfish on her part and even abusive.

Give me intimacy any day.

I think it depends on if the BPD was male or female. I can see a BPD woman providing a normal man with a great sexual experience. For me, however, my ex was awful. He was extremely selfish. Our sex life was very one sided. We basically did the deed when he wanted it and I had to do all of the work. He also used to request that I do it in such a way that I wasn't really touching him with my hands or legs, he wanted to feel like he did when he was getting himself off.

He had narcissism piggy backed with BPD so that may have contributed to his "you should be grateful I let you please me" mentality.

I really don't know.

All I do know us the first sex I had after the end of my r /s made me feel worse and did not live up to expectations.

All I could think about was her and how she was better ?

My H has used sex as a way to manipulate me and make me do what he wants regardless of my own needs. 

I actually look forward to experiencing sex/intimacy without all of the BPD craziness playing a role.  Hopefully someday I will find someone to share that with!

Hmm, maybe sex is a supertool for people who suffer BPD to attract and attach people to them, but then again dont we al do something like that to a certain degree when we really like someone? We all try to impress someone when we are at the beginning stage of a romantic r/s, dont we?  In the beginning of most r/s the sex is pretty amazing and frequent, and after a while it can become less frequent. That is not BPD but just "normal" imo.

Was the sex better, or are BPD's these amazing sexbombs? I dont think so, I think it is the connection/ attraction felt that can make sex amazing. And apperantly we all felt a strong sense of connection/attraction with our former exes. I dont know if PBD has much to do with it.

I concluded that the way that my ex performed in bed reflected his fear of true intimacy.  He frequently was uncomfortable kissing during sex.  He would not explore my body.  He told me that with former partners the sex act had not lasted longer than 15 minutes.  He couldn't handle being that close to someone. 

Sex was on his terms.  He initiated it once with me.  That placed me in the position of having to ask for sex during the r/s.  When I asked he told me I didn't have to ask.  However, when I initiated physical intimacy without asking, he turned me down.  It was all about control for him, and he constantly changed the rules. 

I think in a general sense that's accurate. What's somewhat unique (this is a generalization) is that there are almost neutral elements in play regarding sexual objectification. It's not pre-meditated or malicious, but sometimes the best that they can do (or the best that we can do). Intimacy is difficult in a plethora of allegedly normal relationships, but with this disorder it's a core issue. At least for me, my partner gave me free license to objectify her, which can be liberating, but also habit forming in a disconnected sort of way. Trying to strike a balance by injecting mature sexuality into the equation was krazy difficult because of her core wounds. If you're seriously partnered w a pwBPD, I think you do owe it to the relationship to try to transcend the trivial, but they also have an equal responsibility to work on their issues outside the bedroom.

In short, you can get it on and have fun with all different types of people, but I think that these relationships involve aspects of sexual objectification that make things a bit different than most.

I guess it depends on how one defines great sex for one's self.

If I were into sex as a degrading and purely animalistic experience, then I'd say my BPDexgf really excelled at that.  In light of my experience though, I have learned to appreciate the sex I've had with normal women over the years even more.  

In fact, my BPD ex's strange aversion to intimacy was one of the first clues given to me about her true self though I was not able to interpret it at the time.  Having given a lot of thought to this subject, I will never allow myself to experience BPD style sex ever again.  Frankly, my personal values and boundaries were allowed to be compromised, and now I even prize those values that much more.

I will categorically state that my BPDexgf was not a good quality lover at all.  She was nothing more than a self-centered living mechanical sex toy.  However, I do see how some people can think BPD sex is fun as it is quite unique in its own right shall we say and just leave it at that.

I think that we have to keep in mind, that this far too frequently is a result of traumatic childhood sexual abuse. Predominantly males, criminally taking advantage of female children. I was aware that my ex suffered that abuse between the ages of 5-7. The insidious and complex way it affects her adult sexuality is a part of who she is. I understand that. 

Here here, unfortunately that's what I had. In the beginning he was all over me, but the closer we got all the issues came up. He had issues with ED, major anxiety, wanted to do sex in a certain way and when something didn't go as planned he would freak out and leave me laying there on the bed... . nice huh? Sex could be good sometimes but he would also over analyze if our kissing had the right connection, if there was something off... . his anxiety made my anxiety worse. I mean, we'll a little insecure when we are vulnerable when we are having sex, but to it's much worse when it feels like someone is holding up a huge magnifying glass on any emotions or feelings he was having. My Ex took medication for anxiety which gave him issues with ED, but I feel like his emotions made it worse since he could be up for it physically over times. Sex was a control thing for him, whether it was him wanting to do it in a certain way that he felt more confident with or initiating sex when we were about to leave the house, I wasn't feeling well, when I just got home from picking up food, most times I would say "No." Part of might of been his impulsivity but I think it was his way to say "look she denied me." Then like you said he would act like he was always up for sex, but he denied me a whole lot!

I know I could find someone who will treat me better than my exbf, but I am reeeeally not sure I'll ever find anyone who could satisfy me sexually like him. I mean, oh.my.god. I actually started to cry, just thinking about it. It makes my heart hurt. Seriously good stuff.

To be fair, I'm an unusual woman with some deviant sexual desires; without going into any incriminating details, let's just say that I'm very well-suited to a good PD man's sexual proclivities. But my ex would also make love to me, and adored *ahem* pleasing me, and was very affectionate and attentive. It was just overall veryveryveryvery spectacularly amazing. If he ever came back, and if I ever capitulated, this would be a big reason. I'm not going to lie. I've been in a sexless marriage before (and I mean ZERO sex, for years), and given my unorthodox tastes, I'm a damn sucker. (Also, yes I do love him. I'm not that shallow, I promise.)

Well HappyNihilist, the good news is that I have pretty deviant streak. And I don't have BPD. So, maybe there is hope for you? :) I'm sure there will be lines of people who would want/desire to explore the things you do.

Pleasure from sexual intimacy is defined differently from person to person.  For me, pleasure from sex is borne out of the authenticity and reciprocity of the connection between me and my partner.  This is by choice not biology.  I seek more than just a body to use for masturbation.

With my BPDex the sex was fabulous, although looking back I can't honestly say how much of this was due to her mirroring.  Initially for her sex was about pain, degradation and humiliation.  I tried this a few times with her before realizing it was a space that I wasn't comfortable living in.  Eventually she would stop seeking the same reward from me -- achieving a sexual euphoria by reliving a persecution fantasy from her abusive childhood -- and the sexual dynamic changed to one which more resembled the model of my fantasy bond.  And though we continuously achieved many sexual "highs", looking back it would be hard for me to determine now whether she authentically enjoyed sex at all. Very heady stuff and I don't yet have the answers.

So have I ever had great sex with someone who doesn't have BPD?  Absolutely.  A mental illness that I don't have has no bearing on my sexual identity.

Will I ever have great sex again with someone who doesn't have BPD?  Absolutely, because I don't plan on having an intimate r/s with a pwBPD ever again.  :)

:) That is good news. And I know that's a big part of what I need to work on for myself -- not sacrificing a part of myself to fulfill another part.

I rationalized away some early red flags, and he "helped" by adjusting his behavior when he realized he was scaring me away. By the time the crazy-making really hit, I told myself it was OK for the unconventional relationship I thought we had. Eventually I realized that my needs were not really important, despite what he claimed. Not because he didn't care, but because he's incapable of really understanding another person's needs and putting them above his own. When you view your whole life in survival mode, it's always me-vs-them.

I have had great sex with past partners without BPD. I have not been intimate with anyone else since but its only been since the end of January that we broke up.

The sex with my exBPD had a different charge to it.  I very attracted to him . More than i have ever been before with someone.

It was also a very challenging part of my relationship with him.

He introduced me to alot of interesting things that i had not experienced before. I always felt a little unsafe though. Most of the time it was great but there was a side of him he was not fully disclosing.

Initially in the relationship he would send me alot of porn videos and pictures mostly to build up the charge before we got together he said.

I told him it was not necessary for me so he stopped doing this.  Also, some of it was very dark and a few things were quite scary. I am not being reserved in my judgement in this. ... . I am a pretty open person and willing to explore things, what he sent me was very disturbing.

As we got closer and the relationship progressed he stopped this with me but continued to purchase objects from BDSM leather suppliers but was not introducing them to me any longer. That concerned me too since i suspected he was cheating on me.

He also started saying some very disrespectful things about women and what their purpose was sexually and how you control them with sex. He spoke about controlling them and punishing them with sex. Because women liked it that way.

Near the end when he was drinking too much, without his "tools" he was hurting me physically during sex.  I felt very unsafe. I knew i had to get out of this relationship based on this alone. I am also still trying to sort out why i was involved in this sexual dynamic with him.

Some of the greatest sex I had was with my ex boyfriend (although he had some strong narcissistic traits) when we were in a long distance relationship... . we had 2 day long "catch up" sessions!

I have absolutely had amazing sex with partners who do not have BPD.  In fact, initially, sex with my ex-BPD-bf was not great at all.  He is much younger than me and while he had plenty of experience, he clearly did not have plenty of experience considering what women want.  I've read how many are so giving not because that's their nature but because they get off feeling that they are great lovers seeing how much their partner enjoys what they are doing.  My ex turned into that while we were together.  Initially, it was all about what he liked only.  After quite some time, it became more and more of a match of what we both liked.  He learned and became phenomental.  And I learned what he liked better as well. 

It didn't start out with the controlling aspect at all - but that did surface many times once it got better.  I often wondered if he was learning new things from watching more porn (he has a major obsession) or from being with new people.  I am certain at some points it was from being with others.   

Anyway - last time we had sex, he had his hands wrapped around my throat for a while with quite a bizarre look on his face.  He wondered why I wasn't smiling at the end... .

So yes - as phenomenal a lover as he became, there are plenty of non-borderline men out that who are fantastic lovers... .

I can definitely see this. My exbf loved to brag about how great he was in bed -- it was one of the very few things he felt truly confident about -- and although he claimed that he loved to satisfy me because he was a "consummate pleaser" (his words), I think it was more of an ego boost. He certainly couldn't just lie back and enjoy me focusing on giving him pleasure, even though that's something I desperately needed and told him was important to me.


Take2, I'm so sorry, that had to be scary for you. 

That's actually... . also something I need... . and my exbf was very good at it. Yes, I need a lot of violent, painful, degrading, and humiliating sex. I'm a physical and emotional masochist and deeply submissive, and not just in bed -- so it's not just the sex but also the controlling, dominant, alpha male aspects that I crave and need. That's not something easy to finally come to terms with (I did accept it long before I met him, though), and it's really hard to find someone you can trust to engage in such a r/s with. The combination of natural dark sexual proclivities and sadism, along with careful mirroring... . yeah, I was a goner. There are other issues at play, of course, but this is THE Big One for me, that I have to work on.

Ive never known anything like it. So intense. Im 48 and have a bit of experience but ive never so felt powerfully connected. Just sitting in the car with him i could feel this insane energy. And of course he just had to look at me and we would shag anywhere. I mean anywhere. Any time. Ive never been so spontaneous, and reckless. And the emotional connection was there too, i felt it. I still do. Ive never had intimacy like it, which is sad cos i was married for 23 years. The sex lasted for hours and hours. Im not kidding. Couldnt get enough. Felt like a teenager, except when i was a teenager i was going to church and not having sex... .

I had to break NC yesterday and call him because he posted a nude photo of me on FB. It was a tasteful photo because hes a professional photographer, but my hearts in my mouth because he has hundreds of me. And posting on FB? Id ignored every other attention seeking post from him the past few weeks and was doing really well.

I feel like hes going to destroy me.

Im so sick of it.

HappyNihilist... .  I totally relate to what you feel and want... .  part of the intense chemistry between my ex and I was his controlling nature and my desire to be controlled - it didn't start out that way in the bedroom but we definitely began to play off of one another.  I have no idea why I became this way - I was never abused as a child.  I had a happy childhood growing up.  I resist control from plenty of others.  But with my exBPDbf, I would have handed him the keys (and passwords) to everything.  

The strangling thing - I wasn't even scared actually.  A long time ago he had asked if I'd be okay with him doing that and I thought nothing of it and said ok.  He did it very briefly that one time but never again.   And that was a couple years ago.  But then last week he did it for a long time and it felt totally different.  He wasn't caring about what I was feeling, it was about whatever he was thinking about.

It's so messed up.  All of it.  Including my part in the dysfunction.

Narrelan... . Wow - that FB posting... . I'm so sorry you are going thru that... .   that is brutal.  Can you get it off of there?  Yep, my ex has some pretty explicit pics of me, thank God he's not on FB... .   but I do fear what he could do with those... .   because he was threatened to destroy me in my professional and personal life many times... . he has taken actual steps to do so... . and then came back multiple times... . and I foolish for having continued on the crazy train... .   but it's been a terrible addiction I have been unable to break.  Even though I have known I am truly playing with fire any time I do go back to him... .    

Narellan, that is horrible about the FB post! I'm so sorry. Can you report that to FB as a violation of privacy and their TOS? Hopefully you can get it taken down. What did he say when you contacted him about it?

Mine has tons of photos of me and us. I worry about it a little, but it's sadly beyond my control. He knows that wouldn't work as intimidation or retribution (emotional blackmail is my weakness). And I'm going to give him the credit that so far he has earned in my eyes, because after reading so much of these boards, I truly feel that he has tried to spare me a lot of pain. He has for the most part treated me with as much respect as I feel he's capable. I was gracious and kind to him when he left me, and although he tried to turn it into a fight (so I would be the one to blow up and end it, maybe?) at first, he eventually calmed and thanked me for helping him "in more ways than I knew" and told me I was a good person -- and that was that. I don't use social media, and I wouldn't talk about the details of us to anyone who might know us anyway... . and I do think that as long as I never do anything against him, he wouldn't against me.


I am completely, 100% with you. I had a wonderful childhood, no history of abuse -- physical, emotional, or sexual. I was emotionally and sexually neglected by my exH (a very nice man and still a friend, but with severe anxiety and some PTSD), but I maintained a sense of self and strength throughout. The marriage and divorce were hard but not devastating. I'm a strong-willed, independent person to most everyone else, and people have a hard time I desperately need to be very submissive in a r/s. But I would have given EVERYTHING to my exbf. I was completely ready for him to take over control of me. I was all about it. I needed it, and I felt like I could trust him.


I understand. The intent is what makes the act.


With you all the way again. I hope that we can all find our answers. 

The first time he asked me if he could post a couple and showed me them. I agreed to one cos it was tasteful and you couldnt see anything but a shape. And hes a proffesional photographer so the pics are truly beautiful. However because we have a lot of mutual fb friends it was recognised and caused chaos within my family. My parents and sister no longer speak to me after serving me a barage of abuse a few weeks ago. He removed that photo immediately. Yesterdays pic he just randomly posted afted weeks of silent treatment. I rang him and he removed it but it was up there gathering likes for about 5 hours.

He was very apologetic, seemed surprised i didnt like it. I do like it, just not on FB in my present situation where im copping a heap of hit and he has no repercussions. The other worry is if i anger him in any way, there are heaps more photos far more revealing that he can post

He just cant empathise. Im trying to stay friends with him from a distance. If he deletes or blocks me then ill never see what he posts. I dont want to go down the threatening to sue path with him. I really dont want to hurt him, i love him.

I feel so overwhelmed.

Trapped forever in this dysfunctional game.

My ex put his hands around my throat during sex too.  He didn't ask beforehand if it was okay with me.  He was inhibited about sex, so it came as sort of a shock when he reached for my throat.  Both hands, and squeezed pretty hard.  I moved his hands away, and little while later he did it again. 

Abuse + strangling acts in bed?  No thanks.  Dangerous combination. 

Absolutely a dangerous combination.  I wondered the entire time what he must be thinking.  Why would he want to do that?  He's never been physically abusive but the fact that so many times I have thought one day he'll just snap and kill me, as wacked out as that sounds, I know he's capable of it.  I've seen him lose it completely at work in the lunchroom.  Off the charts anger and crazy talk.  Like I was staring at a full blown crazy person.  Happened a few times.  I was very scared.  That I have allowed myself to compartmentalize that and continue on with him, pretending that he isn't a very disordered, potentially dangerous person?

So much boils down to me ever since I realized what was going on with him... .

Wow all. Thank you for your candor. Very much appreciated.

Like all other aspects of the relationship, my sexual relationship with my ex was complicated. Let me first start with some nuggets my ex dropped on me. I have read somewhere that people with BPD have moments of clarity or moments of truth that slip out and provide a context for what is ACTUALLY going on. For myself... . here are a couple of nuggets:

"At the start of a relationship, the whole reason to have sex is to impress the other person"

"I'm not sure why you are worried about me cheating on you. You shouldn't worry. If I cheated on you, you would never find out anyways. So, why worry about it"

Now, the sex at the beginning was amazing. Transcendent in fact. And there were moments like that throughout. The weird thing is, despite the crazy sex at the beginning, I still dumped her after 3 months. RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE. So, I dumped her. She told me she was going to spend the rest of her life with me. This was within month 1. She basically stalked me for a month. I kind of went NC (without really knowing what NC was) and tried to avoid her at all costs. I got sucked in after a few months when she called me in a panic about something or another and asked me to be friends (OK... . Now... . If any of you have read my other posts and her invitation to be 'just friends', you will understand why I don't trust this, at all). Anyhow... . I'm digressing. The point I'm trying to make is that I was 'friends' with her for about a year. And nothing. I didn't even find her attractive. I was dating other people. I thought she was cute but I wasn't after her or anything, despite the crazy sex.

One Valentine's day when we were both single, she called me and asked if we could hang out because it kind of sucked to hang out alone on valentine's day. She told me it was just as friends, so not to worry. I said OK. We ended up having sex (SEE! MORE PROOF ABOUT THIS 'FRIEND' THING... . )

Anyhow, we ended up getting back together and the sex was out of this world. I think what made it so hot for me was her looks (she had a great body... . well, kind of great... . parts were great... . others not so much). But the hottest part was that she would know exactly how to tease me. It was like a big show. Like being in a strip club but only this girl was actually not doing it for money. Just these big prolonged teases in various outfits. And she had a look in her eyes like she was going to own me (relevant here to the SM stuff, I think). It was like she was toying with me and knew exactly what to do and that just made it incredibly hot.

Now, to the weirdness... .

After being together for a while (and admittedly, the sex had me hooked... . her behavior was starting to freak me out... . ), I would always want to return to that time. It would happen here and there. But not really very frequently. More often than not, she would want me to stare into your eyes and connect. She would want to FEEL connected, like I had any real control over that. I would soothe her. Pet her. Kiss her gently all over her body. Whatever she wanted. And sometimes this would take an hour. And then we would have sex. Or, sometimes not. I kept telling her I didn't like it when she grabbed my head and forced me to look into her eyes. I found it weird and intrusive.

At one point in the relationship, she hooked up with another woman. It was pretty hot. She would tell me all about it. I liked it/didn't like it. Ended up really liking it. She liked it/didn't like it. I think she ended up pretending she liked it because it turned me on. Towards the end of the relationship, after some crazy fight about something stupid, we were lying in bed and she rolled over and said: "I will be with another woman for you if you want". It seemed unreal to me. We just had a crazy vicious fight over something that I don't even remember. And she rolls over and tells me this? I found that just so weird. I declined. I think I said: Nah. That's cool.

Anyhow, my point, if there is one... . I think she used sex as a tool to control me. She would use it get what she wanted (attention, love, control, pulling me in so I wouldn't leave). It was very rarely about intimacy. It was very rarely about love.

She would also do this thing where she would tell me to do whatever I wanted to her, to just take her and do whatever I pleased. When I started to do this, she would tell me I wasn't doing it right. This would make me INSANE... . and not in a good sexy way. It would literally make me crazy. I would say, OK, what do you want? And she would tell me, I want you to do whatever you want to me. And I would say, I am. And she would say, yeah, but not like that. And I would say, what do you mean? And she would say, take me however you want. And I would say I AM! THIS IS WHAT I WANT. And she would tell me no, that isn't what I want. But she would never explain what she wanted. It was crazy. This would happen over and over and over again until I would just give up.

Another thing she would do is talk really dirty to me and get me all in the mood. I would go to the bathroom or something to freshen up or whatever and come back 2 minutes later and she wasn't in the mood and just want to go to bed. She would feel 'cranky' and it was over. This happened more often than not.

Another thing she would do is flip around emotionally in front of my eyes. I remember witnessing it once. She went from sexy, to sweet, to cranky, to demanding, to tired, to dirty, to loving in the span of 45 seconds. I'm not making that up. This would happen quite often. Towards the end of the RS, I said to her... . 'That is very confusing'. Her response: 'THINK HOW I FEEL?'. We both kind of laughed about it. But, holy cow. It was kind of scary. It was like seeing someone transform in front me in a matter of a few seconds. It was actually scary.

So, the combination of this weirdness, the fights, the constant blowing up at me during the day and then the sex pot at night who would disappear after 2 minutes, I kind of decided to just not really bother. Towards the end, I would just rather masturbate thinking about the fantasy of her that she used to project, rather than actually deal with what it took to have sex. That is what I started to do. And the fantasy was basically her, the way she would be sometimes and the she was all the time at the beginning. This was a dumb, dumb thing to do.

My T. told me that the sex was powerful because it was not consistent. It was not all the time, every time. It was maybe 25% of the time. Probably less... . But it was random. So, that is something that made it incredibly addicting. Apparently the brain does this. If something is great and it gives you a rush and you know that rush can happen but it isn't consistent, then you can become incredibly addicted to it because you are constantly seeking it, hoping it will happen again.

I think I stayed in the relationship for this main reason. It certainly wasn't because of the way she treated me. She treated me like garbage. But, the sex had such a powerful impact on me. It still does today.

The sad thing is, the only way I can climax right now is if I think of her. It is terrible. It is keeping me stuck. This is why she still has such a hold on me. I have great friends. I have amazing work. I make tons of money doing something I absolutely love. I meet incredibly smart and talented people all the time at a world class level. I feel like I am making a very important contribution to the world. I just can't climax without thinking about my ex.

Man, that sucks so bad. I'm a good looking guy. Super fit. Smart. Funny. Successful. But my biggest fear is that I won't meet someone who actually does it for me like this and that I now have this sick, twisted sexual fetish about someone who never really existed in the first place.

Good lord I need help. I would literally do anything to get this out of my head. I wish I could find something that I could focus on that would get me off other than images of her. I have a very vivid imagination. And she is always the central character.

AGGGG!

She was probably not trying to control you as much as her feelings about the matter were wildly swinging around. I had moments like this. One of the very few times my ex yelled at me was over me asking what was wrong when she didn't want to have sex. "I don't know!" I never asked her again, I just went long with the flow.

Yeah, you're talking about intermittent reward. It's what gets gamblers hooked. I wouldn't think of it a something she did on purpose either. As humans, we tend to equate hard work, "sunk cost," with value. Try, fail, try, fail, try, SUCCESS, try, fail, try, SUCCESS, try, fail, try, fail, try, fail, try, fail, try, fail, and so on. You tend to remember the reward and it becomes something more powerful than it would be otherwise.

Years ago, I read a book, "No More Mister Nice Guy" where it's suggested that when you find yourself sexually addicted (in the context of the book, it was porn and certain fantasies) you should try and clear your head and get reacquainted with you body by way of just feeling when you masturbate and not fantasizing. This may fail a few times before you get there, but it may break the chain. They also suggested the rubber band method, where you wear a heavy rubber band to snap when you catch yourself thinking about certain people, fantasies, and such.

Yep... . that Damn intermittent reinforcement. ... . I'm severely addicted.

But the sex with my ex was 99% of the time mind blowing.

The intermittent treatment was the treatment outside of the bedroom. ... .

The sometimes (less and less as time progressed) incredibly loving thoughtful guy but the most of the time abusive Jerk.

PPowerful addiction. ... . This weekend is a massive withdrawal period for me... . Every time I've almost made it he has reached back out... .   I know I'll be a gonner if he does soon.

If he keeps me shut out... . I'll break thru the worst of it at least

no not yet.  I am in a similar situation to willy:


I am not in a position to date because of finances and where i'm at right now but i can relate to your story Willy.  There were differences of course but alot of similarities.  She used to show me her breasts and then when i got excited say, "oh, you're horny huh?. you just have a high sex drive but i'm tired baby."

The best sex was the make up sex.   She would invite me to her place after a fight and tell me she just wanted to talk things out. we would talk about having sex until we worked on other things in our relationship.  But I seriously could not control my excitement when i was around her.  Just the mere look in her eyes and the sound of her voice would stimulate me.  I think i got addicted to that.  As a 48yo man i was in awe of how she was making me/my body feel like a teenager again.   However, after awhile i noticed that i started feeling controlled by her/sex in that regard.   

One other thing that was addicting was how mature she was in bed.   Other than the teasing thing i described, we had very open sexual conversations and this was the first partner that i had experienced this with.  I felt so free with her in that regard and felt i was maturing in a part of me that was held dormate.  (Btw, my uBPDex wife was not that good in bed.) 

I broke up with my exgf because she was very jealous of me and distrusted me.  She would facebook friend any woman on my friend list that was single and she deemed as a threat.  After we got in a fight about this I ended things because i couldn't hadn't the projections of her mistrust.   Afterward, she sent me an email from another woman who i had met at a conference.  This other woman was merely discussing business with me and I had told her about her anyway before we broke up.   However, she sent me a fake email pretending to be her to see if i would take the bait on being hit on by that woman.   I didn't and figured out it was her right away.  When i confronted her she denied it.  We were apart and no contact for several months.   She apologized and said she just wanted to be friends. Several months went by and i finally agreed to see her.  Since she didn't drive, i dropped her off at her place after our neutral meeting.   She convinced me to come in and then i got seduced by her.  Yes, part of me liked it of course. I had a difficult time not wanting to be intimate with her because she was so loving and so giving in the bedroom.  However, i realized that we had gone too far and i kept my distance again and said we could just be friends over the phone.

She eventually pretended to be another woman in a forum that i introduced her to and then denied it despite me giving her the proof.  Since then I've been no contact (since thanksgiving) but she will periodically email me and ask me to forgive her.  It is torturous because part of me wants to and that is where i feel like you Willy.  I haven't been able to get interested in other women.   More than the sex, i miss the way she touched me.  I know that sounds weird but it truly felt so intimate and so connected when she would do that.  Again she was very giving in the bedroom.  I'm sad that her personality was so chaotic outside of the bedroom.  I know i can't trust her but i'm tempted to respond to her. 

Another thing that threw me at times is that she did apologize alot for her behavior.  But once i broke up with her she went into denial about her stalking behavior and minimized it.  It's really that minimizing and denial that caused me to put her on NC.   It still sucks that i'm not over my addiction to her.  I guess it's like alcohol or drugs; the addiction never goes away and that is why we have to go NC. I hope to get into a healthy relationship in the future but right now my mind still thinks about her and misses the parts that i described which were good.

It's healing in a some sort of way to realize i am not the only one who struggles with this. I feel like my sex life is over and that no woman will be able to excite me like her.

Excellent thread guys.  I haven't been on here as much because I've been dating, socializing and the like.  Now my ex, I would say, was good but not great in bed.  Better than average, I would say.  It definitely took us a while to get a rhythm, but once we got it, we were fine.  Then bit by bit, the sex became a weapon.  She brought more and more spectacle out.  And heaven forbid I masturbated.  I mind as well have slept with her mom, she was so hurt.  It became clear after a while that she was trying to control me through sex.

Then the sex became more and more restricted.  Not only did I have to focus on pleasing her, but I had to spend my energy having sex with her in a certain way with a certain speed, and I had to finish by a certain time in a certain way OR ELSE.  Then she "accidentally" lost her birth control pills, thus necessitating me using condoms again, which led to more issues.  After a while, I just said screw it and went celibate.  I didn't need those problems.

Now, I get to have sex with women who has emotions and feelings and are responsive to what's going on.  It isn't about her needs, but what can we do with each other.  And trust me, it feels grrrrreat!  So much more peace as a result.

Oh yes... best ever wasn't my pwBPD... she was no 2 (in more ways than one.) However the best... was another looney toons gal that tried to set the guy she married (after I broke up with her) on fire as he slept. I think the wild sparks/attraction thing, combined with lust can make for some great sex... but the good times fade pretty quick... . more so if the person is disordered.

Heard the Chinese say something like " if you want pleasure for a day have sex, if you want to be happy for a year fall in love and if you want happiness for a lifetime, take up gardening." Well, first time I heard that I thought it was stupidest thing I had heard... . but it has a grain of truth to it. Sex is great, and sex with one person can be awesome... just like a great sandwich is really good to eat, but if all you get in the r/s for is the sex, it will be like having the same kind of sandwich for every meal, the new wears off, it all wears thin and you realize you should have thought with your other head about the situation.

On the other hand, if you meet someone you love spending time with, can travel with, have shared interest, they have your back... and you would gladly spend from now on with them... . without even the prospect of sex... then the sex is like dessert, it is a great addition to the meal, but not really the main part or even absolutely necessary (and it can make someone fat... )... that is how I have looked at it.

The BPD person... . that just made it clear how deceiving appearances could be... at first I was awe struck with her beauty and spirit... and the sex was over the top... . by the end... it was just creepy, and I couldn't see her as anything but toxic and bad for me.

Hope to start gardening soon.

It's good to hear everyone's candid stories, advice, and experiences. Thank you all for sharing so much. I certainly have much more hope that I'll be able to find someone who can complement me not only sexually but emotionally and mentally as well. This has been a huge issue for me, and the relief that I've begun to feel is exhilarating.


But I kill every plant I touch... .    

I have written on this once before but lost the thread.

My favorite phrase "This is a spectrum disease."

I can see how for many, partnerswBPD can use sex as a weapon. For others it is just simply very complicated. It is very clear how "min-blowing" and "average" can fit the traits of BPD.

No grand claim here, but I can say how my experience fits.

My uBPDex was not in the top 3 of sexual partners if talking about the mechanics of "mind-blowing" (she was #4) Number one was a woman with whom I had a relationship for several years. She told me she would "interview" her gay neighbors and friends on how to please a man (smart girl). The second was an artsy woman who worked in the movie industry. And number three was a friend-with-benefits I have known for almost a decade (more on her later).

My ex, however, was far and away the best sexual "partner" ever. While others had better skills in the technical department, the breadth of context and sense of intimacy made it the most cherished sex-life I have ever known. Whether it was the confined ability to have sex without waking the kids or the "pull-out-all-the-stops," "s**t-we-left-the window-open-I-hope-we-didn't-scare-the-neighbours," kind it was always wonderful. It is part of my argument against the "love" part of BPD being less valid than the hurtful part (I am still working on that).

I like the dessert metaphor. For us that is exactly what it was. We even had open discussions about "relationship sex." She worried I would lose interest if the sex from time to time became routine. It did "from time to time" become routine and was still great. To me this was a sign that this was IT! Great sex life even when it was routine! We had ahead of us mind-blowing sex when the time was right and good sex even if we thought "eh, it is Tuesday, why not?"

In the end, she used our sex life to paint me black.


Two months out after she bolted once again, I contacted my FWB. I never contacted her while committed to my ex (two phone calls in between recycles). My ex knew all about her as she had a FWB as well. I got together with my FWB again. And again it was amazing and exciting. As a matter of fact, during the night I began to reconsider whether she shouldn't move to #2! But even more prevailing in my thoughts that night was that I really didn't want this any more.

I so longed for dessert, not "mind-blowing" sex as the main (only) course.


Don't get me wrong, we all are sexual beings. I have been in contact with my FWB. I am sure I will see her again. I just very much miss dessert.

Yeah guys. Great thread. I wonder what genius started it? Just kidding.

I totally appreciate all the candor. For reals. It has been super helpful. I talked to my buddy about it the other day and he told me that I just needed some different ammo for when I masturbated or just not do it all. That is true. That seems to be one of the hooks for me that keeps the door open, even if I cower in the corner scared it will open.

Another thing that happened last night... . I had great sex! Holy cow. What are the odds. Still not really the same as with the ex, but still pretty good. And without all the weirdness.

I think my main problem right now is that I had built my entire sexual identity around my ex and all my fantasies revolved around her. I have a really active imagination so these fantasies are really powerful. My ex had a really powerful imagination as well, so could really play in the same place. It was pretty hot.

But, I think what I need to do is refocus more on the weirdness. There was more weirdness than not that I just found creepy or gross. Her weird mood shifts. Her weird requests to have me do what I wanted to her and then tell me I'm doing it wrong (that makes no sense). Sometimes when we were telling dirty stories together, she would tell me, 'I want you to tell me how I feel'. And I would try. And she would say, 'No, I want you to tell me what I would be thinking'. And so I would try. And she would say, 'NO! TELL ME HOW I FEEL'. And I would say: I HAVE NO IDEA! WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME HOW YOU WOULD FEEL'. And it would just go around in circles. It's like she would get mad at me or get turned off if I wasn't able to read her mind.

And this would obviously extend outside the bedroom too. My T. told me that part of the whole BPD thing is an inability to understand that others exist in a separate realm. When you happen to be in the same mental place at the same time, then all is good. If you don't, then all ___ breaks loose. She was so moody and volatile, that these meetings rarely happened after the initial honeymoon period was over. So, the only time things were good in bed was when these meetings would happen. Otherwise, it was awful. Like I said, I would just rather masturbate about her instead of be with her. That is the main psychological problem I'm having now. Trying to disassociate these two activities from one another.

Oh, I forgot my train of thought. That can happen around thinking about sex.

There were many interesting issues in our sex life, if not  red-flag s that may or may not show traits of BPD.

We met through an on-line dating service. I was "very active" there dealing with my own issues in a less than healthy way. My ex broke that cycle for me. However, of all the people I met on-line, she did something different. On our first meeting, we met for coffee. The conversation was so engaging. Five hours later, we went for a drink. After only one drink, we decided this was silly, we need to talk about seeing each other again. We made plans and I walked her to her car. I went to give her the proverbial hug. I remember the determined look on her face as she moved her head to plant a kiss. I gave it my all!

This was the only time I ever kissed a woman on the first meeting (it wasn't even a date by on-line standards) She later recounted this as "well, I wanted to see if I was wasting my time."

The next event came after dating a few weeks. She wanted to cook for me as her kids were with their father. It was predictable, if not obvious. I had been going through an extremely difficult time, so I though I would nap before the big night. Unfortunately, I woke up the exact time I was so posed to be there. I sent a quick text, "Sorry lambs, I fell asleep, I will be there in twenty minutes." She would not return a text or phone call. A week later I sent her an apologizing text. She returned it with a phone call. The friends and family I had met convinced her we had potential, even though I totally insulted her.

The week after that, I planned a picnic. It was a perfect day. She asked when she was going to see my place. We went back to my place. While sitting on the couch in my living room, she asked, "wanna show me your bedroom again?" WOW... . It is on! We had amazing, wild and crazy sex! But admittedly, it was pretty intense for our first sexual encounter... . and I noted it was pretty in-personable. But hey, I justified it by thinking I won the jackpot according to that old rap song "Lady in the street, freak in the bed."

Later it was rationalized by talking of her marriage. She came out of a seventeen-year-loveless marriage. I know her exh well as I have been the only partner able to connect with him. While she stayed for very good reasons (she wanted to raise her boys well to a point where they could make the decision with whom to live. She is very high functioning and a great mom), I am beginning to see some traits of BPD that helped her stay. When we talked of this early on, I asked, "How did you keep your sexual needs satisfied."

"Oh, we still had great sex, we just never talked," she replied. It makes sense, or so I thought.

Other issues I thought I understood that were present in our sex life:

Early on, she briefly mentioned that she lost her virginity at age 11. I expressed deep concern and sorrow. Given my background in this area, I felt the need to tell her that no matter the context, that was abuse... . even a crime. She replied, ":)on't ever bring this up again. I have never told anybody. I don't ever want to speak of it again." I never did.

She never had sex in the missionary position since college (after an extremely painful breakup). She had difficulty with the intimacy that came with that. We worked through that and it became the key to enjoying sex with the kids asleep downstairs.

Still, while using that position, I often saw fear on her face. She would often cover her mouth.

Her breasts were non sexual. She didn't mind paying attention to her breasts, but "it excites me as much as if you were paying attention to the bed post." Like most men, I enjoy breasts. It was such a sacrifice to me that they were never a part of our experience.

She had no problem being naked around me. But as soon as it was sexual (like, "just stand there for a moment and let me look at you), she would cower, cover herself and jump into bed. She had an extremely hard time accepting herself as sexually arousing. Outside of sex, she stunned me with her confidence around body image.

And she would hate to be sexually teased. From time to time, I would try to prolong the act by pausing what we were doing. It would always be met with a weird rage. My ex did have rage issues, but they were few and controlled. At this point, she would scream profanities and demand me continue.

We would laugh moments later and talk about how intense the session was. Even then I began to wonder if they were more about control issues.


At the time they were minor issues that could not stand in the way of a healthy sex-life well into our "second-half." Perhaps there is some correlation to BPD. I am just tired of missing her.

My fantasies now are with my FWB. They are much better that actually being with my FWB. 'Cause when I am with her, I miss my ex.

I hate this BPD

This made me laugh -- not at you or your situation, by any means at all -- but oh my god, that is such a perfect anecdote and really captures the insanity of such a r/s.

My ex had a real thing for pigtails, but he said his ex-girlfriends wouldn't wear them for him. So one day, before he came to pick me up, I put my hair into pigtails for him. He didn't say ANYTHING about them, and was very cool to me in general. After about a half hour of almost complete silence, with him pouting and me being hurt and confused, I quietly took my hair down.

The next day, he asked why the hell I had taken down my pigtails. I told him that I wasn't sure if he'd liked them or not. He did apologize for not commenting them, with the excuse that he "wasn't used to people doing things like that for him, and he didn't know how to respond." I can see this if I'd shown up with a tattoo of his name across my arse, but PIGTAILS?

Ha ha. That's an odd reaction. You would think he would be super stoked. I know I would be.

Yes. So many weird, mind bending, brain twisting things going on in that head of hers. My T. tried to explain it to me once. He said that someone with BPD doesn't understand that you can't read their minds. They have an arrested sense of emotional development so they are constantly trying to merge mentally. They have a really hard time seeing other people's perspectives when it comes to something emotional and they will freak out on you when you aren't there with them, mentally or emotionally. They will punish and push and twist and demand to get that. From an outsiders perspective, it doesn't make any sense. So yes. That story is so typical of what sex was like with her 75% of the time (the other 25% was the best porn sex ever). There were so many times she would demand that I take her and then criticize me for not taking her the way I wanted. You can read that again... . it is not a typo. She would criticize me for not taking her the way I wanted to. That is so weird. She would say, I want you to take me and do what you want to me. And I would. And she would so, not like that. I would say, what do you want. And she would say, take me however you want me. And I would say: I AM. And she would say: NO. NOT THAT WAY. And I would say: I AM TAKING YOU EXACTLY THE WAY I WANT YOU. And she would say: NO. NOT LIKE THAT. JUST TAKE ME. It was infuriating and actually kind of cruel. Made me feel like ___ at first. After this happened about 10 or 12 times, I would just ignore her and do stuff so she couldn't talk. That's funny. But true. What I wanted at that point was to just shut her up. So I pretended that was the way I wanted to take her. So weird.

That's a very helpful description of it. I felt like mind had snapped so many times, when I thought we were on the same page and then it turned out I was waaaaaay off.

My exbf told me several times that he had a "vision" of how things would go in his head (not just sex -- everything), and when reality didn't match that vision, he would have a come-apart. He'd get incredibly agitated and often just go straight into a full-blown rage, and I would have no idea what the hell was going on, what I'd done/said or didn't do/say. He would ask for certain things, and I would comply, only to receive coldness or rage when it didn't play out exactly as he'd set it up in his mind.

Further irony is that he'd accuse me of doing the same thing, and would tell me not to have specific fantasies because he didn't want to feel like he had to live up to some ideal. I told him I was enough of a realist to not base my expectations of life on my own fantasies. He didn't like that... .


It is infuriating and cruel. I'm not saying that pwBPD do this consciously or intentionally (some probably do and some don't), but it certainly seems like they never want their partners to feel like they're on stable ground. They're certainly not, emotionally or mentally. These punishments, mind games, and twisting of words/actions just serve to keep their partners in deep uncertainty.

Holy cow. You just described the exact same way my ex would behave. She would have these ideals in her head and then when those ideals didn't happen, she would completely lose it. My ex was a rager too. She would yell and scream and stomp around. Man. That is so weird. I totally forgot about that.

A little off topic but she once took me to a movie and I was only luke warm about it. She asked me what I thought and I said: It was OK. I enjoyed it. Not sure if it is worth the rating it got on RottenTomatoes.

She went into an absolute rage and crying fit. Cried for about an hour and a half. Threw the bike lock at me and biked off in front of me. Told me to go away and go home without her. Told me she couldn't do anything to make me happy.

Wow. That makes me really sad for myself, actually. Ug.

My ex didn't rage, but it would the same when I didnt like something that I was "supposed to." She would feel bad, she would feel ashamed, and I would feel guilty. I'm starting to realize more and more that I've been subtly trained to respond to things like this. I don't think she meant to. I didn't often make comments on things that I knew would hurt her.

From my various relationships, with messed up parents and two messed up marriages, I've learned to control my facial expression fairly well. By the end of this last relationship, her complaint was that she couldn't decipher my facial expressions and body language, which is something that helped for a long time. There's no way to win, I guess.

I never mastered the art of controlling some facial expressions well enough.  Even when I thought I was showing absolutely NO expressioni and actively working to do so, I'd get criticized for my facial expression.  It was a no win situation for sure in that... . one of many... .

Take2, I never learned to control all my facial expressions that well, either. My exbf said I had "storybook eyes" -- for good and for bad -- much of what I'm thinking comes through pretty clearly in my eyes. Even people I work with tease me about how "open" my face is.

Chad, you're absolutely right. There's no way to win. I know that if I'd controlled my expressions, he would have hated it, just as he eventually grew to hate (or be afraid of, or whatever) how little I could do so.

And Willy... . my exbf would stomp and yell and kick the air and wave his fists around like a toddler, too. Aren't ragers fun? 

By chance I found this article on this very same subject today.

www.news.health.com/2013/05/24/people-with-borderline-personality-disorder-may-misinterpret-facial-emotions/

From the article:


Very interesting article! I've not read about this before, but it makes perfect sense.

My exbf was very proud of his ability to "read" and "interpret" people. But he did it through the lens of his own harsh judgment and twisted worldview. So every intention became malicious; every emotion became negative.

I have read this somewhere else and could never remember where... . anyway - this absolutely applies to my ex... . he always misreads expressions on my face and others... .   not only facial expressions, but also written words - not just mine, but many times he would forward someone else's email (work related) to me to ask if it was as aggressive as he said it was.  It never sounded like he actually doubted himself when he did that, he was looking for validation that someone was attacking him. 

Texting my first wife had the same effect. The arguments were horrendous.