BPDFamily.com

Why am I having such a hard time accepting this is not me and that I cannot solve this?

Why am I putting up with this?

I can keep posting on here the latest blow up or the latest crazy episode, but in the end, I am still putting up with it... I am not leaving.  I am not changing correctly, I am still blaming myself.  Maybe getting a bit more angry and letting her know that I feel she did cross a boundary with me, only to feel guilty as she then says I am being mean and i used to never be that way...

What is wrong with me? 

I cannot get out of the FOG.  I have waited so long that I am financially bound to this disaster.  The guilt that would be on me from leaving would be unbearable.  I would rather her leave me...

It feels the only solution is her miraculously working it out.  She has been better of late, but there are still out of nowhere blowups... .

Double Blinds thrown up...   I finally just start calling the double blinds what they are... double blinds to her face.  I have no energy for the games of this all.  The usuage of tools that may work but usually do not work anymore. 

I am miserable, and she is even more miserable which is even more hurtful to me. 

I cannot help but reacting to certain buttons she pushes... I try walking away only to be followed...

It seems there is only one rational thing to do, but I cannot do it...

I don't know that I have much advice, but I understand how you're feeling. You're not alone. I'm not in the "ready to go" boat yet, but it is exhausting and I keep wondering how long can I do it. I just don't know. (I chose my avatar image because I always feel like I'm bending over backwards)

Sorry you're having to go through this all.

how do I know there is not something wrong with me... she says I do not get it... what if i do not?

she says I do not do anything nice for her... I feel i did.  I feel I did alot of nice things.  I certainly rescued her a few times.

What if she is right?  Why do I just assume she is the sick one?

She is all I have left... and not much of that.  I have given everything.  Emotionally, mentally, my career, financially... . I do not even know how to afford a divorce now.  Our house is half torn apart on remodels.  There is nowhere else to go for either of us...

I do not know how to face things alone... with her at least I can feel a team and we can combine ourselves and fortitude.  Alone ... I will be fighting her, and my usual wars, and the hole I am in now as a result of her.

i do not see how I can get out.  I know I wont, but I just feel like there is no way I can save myself now.  If i died in an accident, at least the life insurance policy will clean the slate for my wife and kids... They can then have a shot at least.  I couldnt make it right with her... maybe its not my fault, but I just do not feel there is anymore way...

Wow HH... It's like you just summed up everything I felt last night.

I feel for you bro.  I know why I stay though.  Although I wonder why I didn't bolt when I had the chance.  Every day.  Now I'm trapped and can't leave.

Hurt,

We sometimes over complicate things.  When we are in the midst of all of the FOG and pain, we cannot see the solutions. 

How do you know it is not you?  It is you.  It is you because she has beat you mentally until you don't know which end is up.  You need to get away to let your mind clear.  I have done it and it works.  I can promise you it will work for you.

The house is torn apart?  It is just a freaking house.  It really doesn't matter if it is ever fixed.  If you leave it like it is someone else will fix it or they won't.  It isn't the end of the world.

She is not all that you have left.  It just feels that way right now.  She has isolated you from other people.  She has built a wall around you to keep others out.  I suspect the half-torn-apart house is something she manipulated you into.  This keeps you from allowing others to come to your home.  It keeps them from seeing how she really behaves.  It keeps you from having friends who might support you and help you.

You need to take care of yourself first.  It is like flying on an airplane when the oxygen mask drops.  They tell you to put your own mask on before you put it on your child.  Otherwise you both die.  You have to help yourself first then you can help your kids.

Try to do a few things for yourself. I go to alanon meetings.  I found a lot of friends and support in those meetings.  My wife hated it and was very threatened by alanon and still is.  The people in alanon said, "Keep coming back."  I did and it has helped me tremendously.

I PROMISE YOU THAT WHEN YOU GET BETTER YOUR KIDS WILL GET BETTER.  You are at bottom right now but now you can start to move up.  DON'T LET HER BROW BEAT YOU INTO NOT GETTING HELP FOR YOURSELF.  You deserve a better life and THERE IS A BETTER LIFE OUT THERE FOR YOU.

Good luck my friend.  There are a lot of us that care.  I am praying for you. 

Truth is it is both of you. But that doesn't mean you are to blame, but you can only fix you. Everything in life is a choice, your choices are just not working for you at the moment.

We get stuck with reacting to what is in front of us now, the consequencies that happen now. The long term results are like some distant unattainable fantasy.

To repair yourself will take a long time, and you will not see it untill you are well down the path. At the moment it only seems like endless band aids fixing todays symptoms, without making any difference in the big picture.

Leaving can seem like the only option, but this is the staying board and that recommendation wont be made whilst you are posting here. That doesn't mean that it is not an option nor that by being here you are committed to staying regardless.

Part of the function of the Staying board is to fix YOU while you are in it. So that you know who you are, what you want, what your values & boundaries are, once you have established that and put it into practice if it is still not tenable and the decision to leave is made then that will be done in the light of knowing why so that you are not left with all the bitter "what ifs" and up hill battle of repairing yourself after the event that you will see on the Leaving and Coping boards.

This is why here we are committed to fixing you while you are in it, what happens after that can be addressed elsewhere


You cannot do it because you have'nt fully fixed you yet. Once you have done that you will know what has to be done and you will be ready for it. You are still stuck in default mode, part of acceptance has a lot to to with acceptance of choices, and if you stay you will know why, if you leave you will know why.

tired-of-it-all is right in saying rebuild your life, your wife will either fall in with you or she wont, either way you will have a life. You need to cut ties with the concept that your wife has to allow you to have a life. Having a life is your choice like any other

I just cannot stop the guilt.  I feel that I am not doing enough... that she feels the way she does means it has to have some truth.  Therapist says we are always fair to feel what we feel, but what if we feel is completely opposite.  How do you address that?

Am I too timid?  Am I too forgiving?

I know I get run over by alot of people.  At same time, I do not let those people in my life too far so it doesnt happen much, but my wife is my wife

I just cannot stay strong in her assaults.  I cannot, not cry, when she claims I do not love her and I have ruined her life...   I do care so much.  It pains me to see her feel that.  I cannot help but cry.

I am not emotionally cut out for this.  I do not see how I can make it through this.  I just want my family to be safe.  I cannot protect them.  I cannot live with knowing I left them behind to protect myself though

Hurt, first of all:   

Second: if you keep writing and saying to yourself that "I just cannot", you won't ever be able to and you will continue to be right. And stay in the same situation.

A mentor at work once told me: "You can. You just don't know how to yet."

That state of mind will end the helplessness, and start giving you some feeling of control.

hurthusband,

It's painful reading your posts. You might as well have been me five years ago.

I know you hear the phrase "take care of yourself" to the point where it might seem cliche, but seriously some change HAS to occur with YOU soon (don't worry about her for the time being). You seem committed to this relationship (?), so unless you want to see an early grave or a host of medical issues, or devastated finances, or messed up kids, or (fill in the blank), you need to be proactive.

I'm not saying this blindly. Five years ago I was a physical wreck. I hated getting my pictures taken because I looked like hell, and pictures don't lie. I looked 10 years older and sad. Even when I smiled, my eyes looked sad.  That was the external... internally I was no better. It was like my body was falling apart and I didn't care because I probably thought subconsciously that death was a sure way of escape. So you can definitely add DEPRESSION to the mix.

I don't know if you are where I was, but you sure are heading there from what I read.

A good question to ask yourself is what will it take before you change yourself and the course of your life? A medical crisis? Do you have any well-defined boundaries for your BPDw? Some line in the imaginary sand where she should never cross?  If not, then you should.

I remember distinctly my wake up call. See, my exBPDw did not respect any boundary. Responding to her calmly never worked because she wanted a reaction from me. The only way she could get a reaction from me was stepping on my boundaries. One day she pushed that envelope to far and I woke up from my FOGGY dreamworld and realized the magnitude of her disrespect, but not only that, the magnitude of what I allowed her to do.

I hope you get your wake up call soon, for your own sake.

WG

Pretend for a moment that you are not you, but rather a close friend.  Imagine observing your close friend going through all of this.  What would you say to your close friend?  Would you tell him to continue the status quo or would you tell him to make changes?

When you're neck deep in the turmoil, it's hard to step outside of your own perspective, but often it helps.  It also helps having people to talk to about this, whether it's a therapist or some close friends you trust.  They can often help you see through the FOG.

The world is gray, not black and white.  It is this gray area that you need to recognize: Yes, your BPDw may have a legitimate complaint at some level, but her reactions, behaviors, accusations, judgments, conclusions are influenced by her BPD and her inability to see that same gray area, causing her to paint it all black.  And thanks to the FOG, you're buying into it.

Acknowledge that gray area and if you truly feel you are not doing enough, then do more.  But don't do it because you are guilted into it.  Do it because you think it's right.  Do it for yourself.  Do it for your wife, too, but not because she demands it, but because you want to do it for her regardless of her response.

I think you reacted too quickly in bailing her out with that expensive return ticket.

Now you are "paying the price."

My gut feeling is that it is too soon to give up, but you should take several steps back as others have said above and assess your part in enabling your BPDw. You may feel burnt out right now and need more self-care too.

Its just so hard sometimes.  We been together 11 years.  When we started I was fresh from college just starting my career but with a nice savings and she was out of work with 2 kids.  Since that time I have dealt with her rages, cheating, alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide attempts, break-ins with vandalism, numerous financial problems she got into, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, fights with family and friends by her, isolation of myself, self debt, putting her through school to no end, numerous career changes by her, hospitalizations both mental and physical for her, and all sorts of other things

Her family only invades our boundaries but thats a dynamic it is hard for me to put a foot down on because it causes all sorts of chaos between her, kids, and her family.  They are also zero help at all.  They ignored all the suicides and everything.  They show no compassion nor love to her and are BPD also

I do not know if I have a hero complex or something... I feel that I should go down with the ship if I really love her.  What about he kids?  How do I move on without her?  What does that mean if I wasted my life so far?  Whats the point of anything?  I *know* the answer the those questions, but I do not *feel* the answer to those questions.  I am not sure if it has something to do with the fact I have OCD and that is somehow playing a role... I been in therapy my whole life so I am getting help

I do not really stay angry with anyone though.  I genuinely easily forgive.  I am the polar opposite of her.  Makes it easy to stay calm and not hold onto anger to burn, but at same time maybe I want to be some more like her in a way.  I know that she is either right, ultra sick, or cannot control herself... I do not know if that selfish of her or any fault of her own. 

I just have nothing left to give.  The tank is empty.  My mind is frayed and I do not have the energy to even rest or help myself.  Its almost like I can use the years of my life and burn my *lifeforce* or something to keep going to save the children or maybe help her a bit longer... I just feel done.  I hit my breaking point about a year ago, and I can tell my breaking point was a point far further than most people's.  FOG is not just around me but in me now. 

The only way out I almost feel is if I am forcibly removed... institutionalized or locked up.  It has some appeal to it to be honest.  At same time, if that is done, future is destroyed.  Career, everything...

Sticking with this seems to have at least a shot at a miracle of happening.  I have faith in God.  Wife is agnostic/atheist... She has no hope.  If i had no faith that miracles could happen and did not worry about hurting family, I am pretty sure I would have killed myself awhile back.  At this point its just about limiting pain to others from my own actions

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.

You are sounding very close to hurting yourself and that is a scary place to be.

You have gotten a lot of good advice on here about taking care of yourself but what I am hearing you say is that you are overwhelmed and feel trapped.

Do you have a therapist to talk to? Do you feel you might need to seek professional help?

When I got to such a low place like you I went to the emergency room to seek help. 

Please take care of yourself.  Your family needs you. Your children need you.

You are not alone and there is help out there. 

You're in a bad place.  You really need to go talk to a professional to get help for yourself.  But if you choose not to... .

Please continue writing here.  It can be cathartic.  It can also help you organize your thoughts, maybe help you see things differently after writing them down.  It can be its own form of therapy.

Your OCD is causing you to obsess about "her stuff". It is also hindering your ability to change the way things are, change in itself is scary for pwOCD regardless of logic.

My partner is OCD comorbid with BPD, so I understand how it hinders change.

You are stuck in rescuer mode, and she is happy for you to be there. The problem is you being stuck in rescuer mode means she is stuck in victim mode. Nothing will change until that balance is broken

Good point... Yes, I have been in therapy for 30 years now ... since I was 5.  It is just one of those things when you know the *truth* the therapist tells you the *truth*, but you just do not feel the truth.

As far as self harm... wanting it to stop is one thing, but I do not have what it takes to kill myself. 

While I am religious, I do not like to think that people who do commit suicide go to hell.  I mean it was done in the Old Testament, and who can really blame somebody who would have been trapped in a Nazi prison camp.  I do not know that God judges that way.  Still, I guess that fears me a bit.  Also, hurting myself gets me away, but it hurts too many other people.  The guilt of the whole thing is what drives me nuts and killing myself would just be doing what I want least of all for others.  Not really an option

If you stay, set firmer boundaries.  Don't say anything mean that you'll regret, or that she can use against you.  Act like you would act if you were in a normal relationship.  What's the worst that happens?  She wants to leave, which may happen anyway.

My heart bleeds for you because you really are trying.  And you love her.  I know you do.  That's why you stay. 

I can't change how you feel, but maybe you can compartmentalize rather than catastrophize? 

You say you're alone, you have known her since college.  Your relationship is an investment, too much to throw away.  I get it.  There are many like you, who would like to know you.  You will always be something in her life, even if it's a person who will always love her, and who she loved.  You have made a big difference in the life of her son. Even if you don't have any legal claim (and I still think you should refuse child support unless you have visitation) he will remember how much you helped.

What you get out of this is that you learned how deeply you care and how deeply you love.  There are many, many women going through the same thing who are looking for someone like you, who want to make you happy and be proud of you instead of tearing you down.

But I know that's not consolation.  You want THIS woman.

So while you are still staying... . Are there more boundaries you can set?  If you set them firmly WITHOUT meanness and snide comments, she can't really say anything.  Block her phone number from calling you at work.  Tell her when you're going to different events - don't ask her permission.

What's the worst that can happen, if you do normal things?  She may leave - but then it's not her, not you.

Set boundaries and see what happens. 

Hugs hurthusband   

And dont feel alone.  Many of us here either are completely overwhelmed and have lost ourselves, or have been there at one point in time.

Something to consider - if you arent able to convince yourself that YOU are a good enough reason to change and set boundaries - is that by simply dancing the dance that SHE defines is really not healthy for HER either.  In other words, if you are going to do something for HER benefit, its not what you are doing now.  You need to get yourself healthy.  Set boundaries.  Gain your strength back.  And live a life with consistency and holding a steady course.  This will be a huge help to her (whether you/she sees it that way at the moment or not).  In other words, give her what she needs, not what her emotions want in any particular moment.  And to do that, you need to get yourself squared away and standing solid on two feet.

if faith is important to you and you are a religious person, you might use that as an extra tool... maybe you can seek some rest in the retreat/hostal-area of a monastery for a while, get out of the daily trouble, let your mind come at ease, maybe speak to a priest or a monk... . everything that helps you to clear your mind and contemplate...

leaving your family for a short time to re-strenghten can prevent you from more drastic actions, and maybe it could be an eye-opener to your wife too... .

I don't know if this is a helpful option for you, but I personally do believe in the beneficial and healing qualities of "sacred" environments, whether they are religious or in plain nature, as long as it's quiet and peaceful... .

Hey there.

You are not alone in your struggle.  I have the same things going on in life with my wife.  Things have quieted down some, but there has been a big price I've paid because I stood with her and didnt leave.

My son has disowned me because he thinks I am choosing his abusive mom over him.  That's the furthest thing from the truth.  I'm trying to see the bigger picture but some days the struggle is too much to bear.

I havent had sex in three years and my wife sleeps in an air mattress next to me on the floor.  The dogs sleep next to me.  My other son has had a problem with deep compulsive lying and he too is feeling the effects of years of his mothers temper and flare-ups.  Both my sons are grown now and have had to face an adulthood with deep emotional issues.  Of course I feel the most guilty for letting all this happen.   

Hang in there

Nicely put Yeeter, pretty well sums up the road to RS recovery for all of us.

|iiii

You are definitely not alone. My uBPDfiance is proud to be cruel and heartless. Feels no remorse for the things that come out his mouth. Finds a way to blame me for everything. Even the cruel things he says. I'm not in a financial situation to leave because we got a place too expensive for either of us to afford alone.

He is currently at the point where I am some kind of punishment, a burden. Spending time with me sucks and is boring. I'm boring. I don't entertain him. Keeping in mind we set up our house with a game room just so he would want to hang out here and not be bored. He works evenings so thinks it's perfectly acceptable to go out every evening he's it at work because  "nights are his schedule." To him the fifteen minutes we spend in bed together from when he gets home until I get up to leave it enough time spent.

I feel horrible. And I have no one to blame but myself as I kept taking him back. Sometimes I wonder where my life would've if I would have just saidno that last time.

There is definitely a lack of trust in myself... I do not know why or where that comes from and I try in therapy to get to it...

Boundaries are difficult.  I do not trust myself that my boundaries are reasonable I have doubt.  This coupled with the fact that the anger and rage basically follows me everywhere from her.  She will invade work with it, it will cause me trouble there.  I am not sure that the chaos will destroy everything I have, and outside of literally leaving, and literally getting a restraining order... there is no way to stop the consequences

I know, the work thing is a problem.  Hmmm, how do we get someone to stop harassing us at work without a restraining order?  Anyone got suggestions?  I've struggled with this too.

You can always have a lawyer send her a letter.  I know this would make things weird, but it can say whatever you want it to say, and it could be written cautiously - something like, as HurtHusband continues to work out his marriage with you, he'd like to ask you to limit calls at work to one a day except in cases of emergency... .

I don't know, just an idea.

You could maybe tell her yourself that you need to limit non emergency calls, or put it in an email.  It's a boundary that may make her angry, but she gets angry anyway!

You could explain to the secretary at work what's going on so she can help you somehow?

I just want you to know that all of us are in these very difficult situations, and you are not alone.  While you feel alone, you sound sweet and kind and there are lots of people who would be your friend if they knew the situation.  

It is NOT your fault that you married someone with a very confusing mental illness.  It only pulled you further into the fog.

Hang in there.  There is so much good in the world.  You are among the good.

Perfect post.

Hang in there man! You've got a bad one, but you CAN make positive progress. You CAN think positively. You CAN lean on your family and friends for support and venting. You CAN work on yourself first and make yourself stronger, calmer, wiser, and if not happier than less depressed and FOGgy.

The weird thing is you ask yourself why you had to fall in love with somebody like this.  The unhappiness is causes and how much easier your life would be without them. 

At same time, you think if you could do it all over again, you still would meet and marry them.

Is it love?  Is it my own psychosis?  Is it both?  who knows

Boundaries do not need to be "fair", they are a self protection mechanism. You are stuck in a mindset of having to justify them. Boundaries are about you alone.

To use an analogy, if you had a serious back injury it would be dangerous for you to say carry the shopping. It could also be said that for your wife to carry all the shopping as a consequence is unfair. But that is the way it has to be to protect your health. Mental health is no different than physical health.

In the above analogy you are picking up the bags simply because your wife is capable of kicking up a bigger stink that you are willing to endure. Your back injury becomes worse as a result.

Understanding that boundaries don't need to be "fair" was a really pivotal for me.  I am a really "nice" person and I absolutely hate being "unfair."  I now know that in interactions with my husband that I will rarely "win" so I stopped trying to win or avoid pitfalls and just accepted that they will come regardless of what I do :) ... .   I don't try to avoid criticism or twisted thinking... . (this is a huge difference from a year ago)... . I just keep my side of the street clean and let things play out.  It has definitely taken some of the steam out of our conflicts.

I've been where you are, and I'm still slowly digging myself out, with quite a way to go yet.  A friend suggested a book on projective identification by two authors, Tansey and Burke.  It helped me both see what my spouse was doing to me and what I could do to protect myself psychologically and emotionally.  I also have an excellent therapist who has worked with a lot of BPD clients, and she was actually the first one to mention BPD as a possibility when others were thinking my spouse was autistic.  Emotionally detaching from my spouse helped, and getting away for a little while, too.  I hope you keep posting to let us know how you're doing.

I think there are several reasons that I have stayed:

1. There are periods where she thinks I hung the moon. Birthday and Anniverary cards are so lovingly and beautifully written that I conclude I'm living with a wife that really loves me deeply but suffers from the BPD  condition which causes her to act badly.

2. On the two occasions that I have tried to leave she has pulled out all the stops (I'm having a nervous breakdown, I'll kill myself and even threats: I'll ruin your reputation.)

3. Leaving is  tough to do. Stressful, depressing, expensive.

4. We've been married too long to divorce. Decades...

So,, 80% of my life is good including 50% of my time with her. I spend about 30 hours a week away from her and do things that give me great pleasure: sports, writing group and classes, socializing with friends, Alanon which has been MOST hElpful.

Someone wrote recently: when the pain of staying exceeds the perceived pain of leaving you will leave. That makes sense to me. But I haven't gotten there and may never. THEO

hurthusband,

reading your posts and comments makes me want to point you to the following message board: PERSPECTIVES: Conflict dynamics / Karpman Triangle (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0)

it really helped me take responsibility for my own happiness

hang in there...  

Yea, I look at the triangle and certainly see it.

It just feels like at times we are multiple roles at the same time.

For instance, my wife is basically the persecutor to me AND the victim in the same argument.  With most everyone else in her life she is the rescuer though.

My default is certainly the rescuer.  Outwardly I am this role basically at all times.  Inside and not mentioned, I feel like the victim, but I cannot ask for help or receive help as that goes against my default role.  In fact, I feel that maybe I am actually the victim.  I just cannot accept that role. 

None of the roles are healthy, so how do you remove yourself from it all and handle it

Today I am certainly feeling victim .  I do not want to trouble anyone to save me, but Past month has been an onslaught of bills from medical. Completely drowning me on top of my wife complete dysregulation, and a family business which is hard to deal with when your boss is a parent who basically has no knowledge of computers and so has no clue what all you are in fact doing for them.

Tired of it all right now... I am tired of the drama of my wife and family... honestly I feel even the kids while they love me, have total disregard for me or willing to do anything to help.  Everything is about wanting more (they have computers, xbox1, ps4, ipads, etc) and completely destroying and breaking everything in the house then leaving it at the ages of 12 and 14.  A wife who is completely disheveled trying to figure what to do with her life and looking at me like I have the answers.  Meanwhile I am the sole money maker.  None of them properly take care of their teeth which explains $4k in dental work in past week alone for them.  $40k in medical bills for them all that have arrived so far for past 14 months. 

Work is an equal disaster as completely non appreciated and threatened

I just need a break... the ship is sinking.  Financially, emotionally, mentally, everything is falling apart and the only person who can keep the ship afloat is myself

I know that feeling.   No one has ever taken care of me.

"honestly I feel even the kids while they love me, have total disregard for me or willing to do anything to help."

Unfortunately, with a 12 and 14 year old, you can't really count on them.  They have little control of their lives and they just want to get along with people in school and not be miserable.  They can't look out for you, even if they care.  Standing up to their mom is harder for them than for you, and it's pretty hard for you.  My mom was nuts and my dad is rational and I still gave in to my mom a lot because it was just easier.  I kind of resented when my dad would try to drag me into their arguments.  Occasionally I would take his side when she was obviously lying about something, but kids don't want to be dragged in.  That doesn't mean they don't love you or care about you.

You deserve something for you.  A backrub.  A pat on the back.  The commenter up there who gets to do things on his own, that's a godsend. 

Just know that there are people here who understand and care!

Hurthusband, you are a GOOD person and a hard worker.  And even a good writer.  Hang in there. 

If you wife acts like she doesn't respect to your rights, and you don't act like you respect your rights, the kids will just follow suit, that is the role model they are following. This does not just affect how they are with you but probably set up a pattern as to how they will have relationships with others.

It really does come down to boundaries and a dose of tough love for everyone, including yourself. This may require a personality change, difficult though that may be. No one else is going to do it for you.

Stepping out of the triangle also means stepping out of the victim role.

I should point out that I do not want the kids to be a source of comfort or take care of me.  I feel that asking or relying on them for emotional support will lead them to learn a behavior of being a *fixer* role later in life which I do not want them to follow suit with me on

The frustrating part with them is such things as just getting them to brush their teeth, not leave food in their rooms or on the couch, or at least when they spill something on the couch trying to clean it up.  Do their homework... . not just sign up for things at school or elsewhere without asking...

I mean I understand kids at that age have no concept for money, but they have the ps4, the xbox 1, ipads, iphones, computers, tvs... etc... I know they are kids and will still be ungrateful and complain...

but not turning in homework?  I mean at least put wrong answers and turn it in.

spilling red gatorade on the couch?  at least soak it up

signing up for football without asking if its ok?  signing up for AP science when you are failing normal science?  volunteering me to take you to something and paying for the trip when you have not talked to me or know if I even work?

... . the biggest though... .   I have one that I just spent $800 in testing to find out that his whole problem is he is overly constipated... I been harping on him to eat right daily forever and that this would happen.  His real father does not care and when he goes over there is horrible.  So what happens... . he goes to his fathers and leaves the medicine he is supposed to take.  EVERY single dose of his medicine morning and night I have to get on him about and argue taking... ITS TO GET HIM WELL!  its just a pill and water!  but he can certainly go out there and destroy my router trying to get his video games set up

the other one... always harping on his to brush his teeth... every year its a new dental procedure... Ive spent $10k on medicine so far this year on crap that is preventable cause nobody will do their own responsibilities.  that is with insurance, and supposedly what qualifies as top teir according to our government.

I am not asking my kids to do anything for me, I am not asking them to even do a chore.  I am not asking my wife to do anything really.  I will carry them all up "the mountain" on my back.  I will give them all our provisions and food and take nothing while we do it.  The ONLY thing I ask is that while I pull them up the mountain is that they do not pelt me with rocks, throw anchors to slow me down, and spray oil as I try to grip the mountain...

but they are literally sabotaging my efforts to do what is nearly impossible...   Wife is worse because she is ungrateful for it

Wow, I can hear your frustration and agaony.  You are in a really painful situation.  I've been there (still am) and it's hard.  The health, cleanliness, and dental issues are things I am facing too.  I take my S10 to the dentist and am told by the dentist I must floss and brush his teeth at least once a day.  This since he was little.  I explain to my unofficially dNPD spouse that we must do this, and he ends up yelling at me in front of our son that he won't because our son is too old and it's ridiculous and demeaning.  Spouse also took our son out of therapy against the wishes of the therapist.  Spouse doesn't help teach children to clean up, e.g. even 5 minutes/night before they go to bed.  Took us into debt buying more and more for our son, and ignored me when I would say, gee, I think he has enough of xyz toy, or spouse told me, well he wants more and I like to collect things so I understand how he feels (our son was 3 at the time). 

After watching my husband and his mother, I think, and I'm not an expert, that there are parents who don't want to empower their children to take care of themselves, so that the parent can rescue the child, as well as at times condemn them for not being good enough.  It's really sick.  And it's also about control.  If the child can't function, they will have to come back to the parent for help, even as an adult, and the parent can control the adult child's life.  And then use the help they offer as one means to guilt them into being/feeling indebted to the parent. 

What has helped me is to work as hard as I can to not react to provocations.  It's really hard sometimes.  I've also started being able to speak more freely about emotions with my kids (10 and 5).  I talk to them about ownership of emotions and try to set an example.  When I mess up I talk to them about it if appropriate.  My daughter hears me cry.  I tell my kids what I'm doing to take care of myself (e.g. help from a therapist - "idea guy".  I've also mentally said forget their messy rooms right now, I can only do so much.  I try to be happy when I clean to set an example.  But I'm home with them so it's different for you, since you work.  Can you make lists and first entice them with money or other rewards?  Or take away electronics and they earn them back?  If not, maybe just start with not reacting, and finding a therapist to react with who will help you.  And take 5 minutes each evening to clean up, and invited them to join you.  Stay positive when you do it so you set an example that self-care is positive.  Maybe even act like you don't care if they don't join you in cleaning up.

You don't feel appreciated by your family and that is hard.  My spouse swings from telling me what a great parent I am to I'm too controlling.  So I've learned to just not react and do what I think is best.  It's hard though when H has affairs and threatens to leave and take the kids half the time.  As hard as it is to see, try and focus on you and how you want to be.

hurthusband  sounds like you have a whole lot of learned behavior going on there copied from your wife at best, and at worst case continuation of the disorder gene.

You are right teenagers can often get wrapped up in their own world and are not always thoughtful. The difference is most do at least realise they are wrong, they are simply just not mindful in the moment. The issue you have is a couldn't careless its not their problem attitude. Seeing their mum acting this way is just validating it as ok.

Being willing to carry them on your back, is only going to reinforce this.


Why not?


They are Ok with that so why would they change?


Requests and demand have no effect when dealing with needy people. Neediness is a Black Hole and will suck it all in and still want more, leaving you with nothing but resentment. There is no sating neediness by giving.

BOUNDARY: I will not pull people up the mountain while they are pelting rocks at me, throwing anchors and spraying oil.

Ask yourself, are you driven by a need to control or model these people in your image, and thereby creating rebellion or stubbornness as a backlash?

It is not what you give that is important to a needy person. It is the "process' of obtaining things or attention that is important to them.  It is one way, and continuouse.

You may need to introduce the concept of 'No", ":)o without", and "Suffer the consquences". It will go against the grain of what you believe is the right thing.

Unfortunately, after HH has been letting them get away with this for so long, suddenly changing that rule will only make them resentful.  And I don't think HH wants lifelong resentment when it isn't necessary.  Changing things now still won't change the situation as a whole.  I think he should set boundaries too, but I don't know about ripping up all the things he let go on in the past. 

When the problem is attitude you can't be inconsistent and unbalanced in your approach to changes. Otherwise you get bogged down in justifying why this is allowed and something else is not.

HH is heading down the path of lifelong resentment in his own head if he does not regain control. You can only address your own resentment no one elses.

A wise soul here once developed this mantra, which I really liked:

"I refuse to care more about this than you do"

This was in response to a child that wasnt taking responsibility for their own behaviors/actions/consequences.  Once she stopped doing it all for them, they then adjusted and picked up more of it themselves.

And some of it they did not do, and she had to learn to step back and let them reap the consequences of what they sowed.

So when you start bailing everyone out, as yourself - are you caring more about it than they are?

(adult children its easier to draw these lines, but even with younger children they have to learn what it takes to get to where they want - whether its video games or homework)

Yes, I do feel that I have let the behavior gone on so long that I have set this up.  It is a situation that changing now would just break everything and blow up in my face in a way that I am just not emotionally or mentally able to handle at this point.  I suppose an analogy is that an avalanche has fallen on me.  I am disoriented, disorganized, and my arm is trapped under a boulder.  I could cut my arm off and get loose, but I am still not all there.  I do not know if I can handle doing that.  Maybe its time to do it sooner than later, but cutting my arm off unpreped might kill me too...


good point... I am certainly having some resentment of a wasted life

It is quite hard to get control on the kids.  I am not blood, so there is a bit of that grey area over walking across their real father's, mother's, or grandparent's rules.

For instance...

the oldest does have his father in his life.  He sees his father every Thursday night, and every other weekend from Thursday through Sunday.  The problem is when he goes to his father's, his father basically lets a total free for all.  He makes no effort to make him take his medication, brush his teeth, eat proper, sleep proper, do his homework, or anything at all.  In fact, he hangs out with his stepbrother who is a bit of a messed up kid.  2 years ago I found a video his stepbrother made where he played a torturer, torturing other kids.  I also have seen this kid bully handicapped kids (handicapped knocked his block off which served him right), and messes with animals.  So what do you do when he has been there for 4 days or in summer a month and comes back. 

I certainly do not feel it is right to degrade his father in front of him, but I really want to say "I know you can do that at your fathers, but your father is a bad parent.  He has a responsibility to hold you to your obligation, teach you, and reinforce good behaviors". 

The other's father is in prison and son has never known him so I have some more leeway on him, BUT...

there is their grandparents who are always meddling.  Picking them up for Boy Scouts which is a good help, but if they are failing a class, I do not think they should do Boy Scouts.  I will take away their electronics at home, but then their grandparents take them over there and let them play on the computer... .

I do not blame the kids to a degree.  Its adults undercutting everything I am trying to achieve.

I do punish the kids, I do try and incentivize things.  I explain that I do not want to be a bad guy, I do not like to punish them or want to take away things.  I want to see them happy, but that as a parent, I have to *teach* or essentially partake in behavior conditioning to act right.

The whole situation is just a network of morons.  My wife had no chance with parents like hers.  Its frustrating

Well, I'm not sure your wife supports you in these things, either.  It might help with the kids if she did.

I don't think it's worth it for you to suddenly enforce boundaries you haven't enforced in years.  Kids are kids.  THey have little control in their lives and they just want to be happy.  They don't have time to worry about your own life and whether your wife treats you fairly.  I know you'd like them to be grateful for all you have done raising them and sticking around, and someday they will be, and deep down they probably are, but they just can't be the ones to enforce anything. 

I think in terms of boundaries, you have to focus on setting boundaries with *new* things that happen.  And maybe subtle ones for old stuff, but definitely it probably isn't a good idea to suddenly change everything.

Setting boundaries is an evolution. It is too confronting to everyone including yourself to suddenly just draw a big list of everything that gets under your skin. So you have to start with the very basic core issues and work from there. You definitely dont get dragged into commenting on what they may, or may not, be doing at their fathers. Otherwise you set yourself up as opposition and they will become defensive. You can't control this anyway

A core issue would be simply that you will not be spoken to with disrespect, over anything. Your action would be simply to stop doing, helping, providing whatever until the attitude changes. Dont make initial boundaries issue specific. eg dont make a boundary specifically about picking up a plate, otherwise you you will end up with hundreds of minor boundaries and it will just become chaos.

Kids are adaptable, but they wont adapt if it feels hopeless.

You dont have to cut your arm off to get out under that boulder, you have tools to chip away the rock, you just have to learn to use them effectively, and it will take time.

Making some progress will make you feel far better about yourself. If you demand AND give respect, kids will see the benefits of this to them. Rebellion and boundary pushing is what teenage years are all about. If there are no boundaries to push against they have no point of reference and so become lost.

Doing these things will help you in your life regardless of what happens in this RS. Otherwise you may very well find yourself in this situation again. You need to fix YOU and your RS management skills for whatever the future holds


She has a disorder and this is a consequence of this disorder and you won't be able to change this. You will disable yourself by hoping otherwise.

Yea... I think that is the main heart of this all is boundaries.

I suppose I come to these forums not so much because "how do i fix my wife or what do I do to handle her"

It is more that there is something wrong with myself.  It is not destructive to others as say my wife's is, but I obviously have some issue with boundaries and taking care of myself.  These are issues that probably would not be as noticeable if I had a different wife, but would still be there.  They will hinder me in all relationships both professionally and personally.

I understand I cannot *fix* others and you can never truly change whats around you, even though we would love to, but I do have control over myself... . the thing is trying to fix myself is truly hard.  Probably as hard as it is to fix her.  It is just that my issue is something you can go through life with and live a pretty good life still, UNLESS you are with a BPD in which case it destroys you

Yes, the last sentence is true.  Of cousre, some would say we attract people or are attracted to people like our parents.  So maybe some of us codependent types are likely to end up with BPDs.

You are not unique, most people have weaknesses, but can get through life ok without being tested on them. pwBPD are hard task masters, and most people would fail. Learning to cope with BPD results in skills that can take you to above average people management skills, because we have to.

It is hard, and it is probably a task never fully accomplished, but knowing the nature of the issue reduces a large component of the hopelessness.

Making your life not dependent on others is a worthy goal. Normally we shirk this level of responsibility for ourselves. pwBPD will destroy you if you allow yourself to become codependent on them.

Think about all these tools and skills as something you are doing to improve you, not just to survive, and it reduces a lot of the resentment. Practice them with everybody you deal with.

|iiii

The hard part is I make a plan, I say how I will deal with things.  I will use the tools, I will more importantly, not let her get to me and make me crazy... but like Mike Tyson once said

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched"

as soon as I get punched and beratted and belittled, the horrible feeling just rush on and because its spur of moment battle panic sets it.  I just am not sure how to stop it

Well, of course.  You are in a difficult position.  All of this is easier said and done.  You live with your wife every day, your decisions and your life are tied to her.  And it is VERY difficult to stand up to people with BPD.  It feels nicer to just give in.  I understand completely.  

Ultimately, it is very hard to live like this.  Set all the boundaries you want, but if they don't really have an impact on her behavior, and her therapist can't help you both, you're just going to keep suffering in one way or another.  Maybe suffering in the marriage is better than leaving and suffering.  

Perhaps you just have to suffer in the marriage until somehow, something comes to a head.  At least you'll know it wasn't your fault and you tried your best.

Seems like besides you, the sanest adult around his her therapist.  I guess he just can't change anything about her therapy or find some way to get her to change?

You know what?  Here's a thought.  What about her T makes a rule that both you and her do something separate one day a week, and you get X hours to do yours?  This will give you a time when you can be yourself, don't have to worry about doing the wrong thing in front of her, etc.  

Maybe he can also tell her that it's important that she not call you at work more than X times.

Of course, all of this means you'd have to talk to the T and convince him/her and give him/her these ideas.  I think maybe if he understands that your wife is pushing you away, and you're good for her, he may recommend that both of you have a bit of time to yourselves each week.  Just think, you could breathe!  And it would be coming from the therapist.  He could ask her if it's ok to call you, or he could ask her to bring you with her and deliver this news.

Maybe this will prevent some kind of explosion in the pressure cooker that's your home.

There's a woman who deals with verbal abuse, patricia evans, who has a book with a list of a contract that verbal abusers have to sign, listing all these phrases they should stop saying and things they should stop doing.  Perhaps unrealistic in many cases, but maybe if you can isolate 4-5 things that would improve your marriage, realistic tings (like, you get 4 hours a weekend when you get leisure time), or one date night a week with no accusations allowed, perhaps that may help.  Of course, these are couples counseling kind of things, not an individual T thing, but if you get to talk to him, maybe he can focus on some goals for her.  Maybe even things not to do - no accusations, no using certain phrases. 

This is important as it gives you time to recharge. Though it will take boundaries on your part to make it happen.  A T can only suggest it, but can't make it happen without you enforcing it.

Enforcing "my time" was one of the hardest fought boundaries of mine. Now it has been achieved it is one of my greatest rewards, couldn't do without it. The constant "dripping tap" of BPD neediness made all other appropriate responses difficult to maintain.

Past 3 weeks since she got back from the nightmare trip, things have as a whole been better.  I have been given some more time for myself.  There has been good days.  At same time, she has stopped going to her therapist, and stopped taking as much of her amphetamines.  She is still VERY depressed over her job prospects and what to do with her life.  We also have been a sickly household past few months which has exacerbated financial stressed with several thousand in medical bills.  About once a week there is a complete meltdown, that is up to the point of divorce, but mostly it has been better...

She seems to recognize that while she does not like a 9 to 5 regimented job (she is an artist), that routine is needed to help her.  Sleep problems still worry me though.  She goes from only able to sleep to 2 hours to a weird night like last night

Last night she went to bed about 15 minutes before me.  She was actually asleep when I came to bed which never happens.  She claims she slept great, but she was snoring VERY loud like she had problems breathing and literally thrashing about in her sleep alot.  Not from nightmare, but like she was having trouble breathing.  Arms flailing to the point that I was staying away to make sure she was safe, and to make sure I didnt get knocked in head.  Very strange.  She said she slept great though...

No telling what today has in store though

I'm glad things have improved since the trip.

Hope the day goes better. 

Hang in there.