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DD called me on my way home from work last night. She asked why I didn't come this past Saturday and I told her because I thought her father and I were taking turns. She said how he's coming every weekend. I said ok. She then asked why I wanted to do every other weekend and I told her, to be honest, because last time we went together she was trying to play us against each other. She said that when she found out I lied about telling him everything, she had and will continue "to call me out" even if it's in front of him. I let it go as did she as she only had 15 minutes to talk. She did however say that I didn't ever have to come. And then in the same breath told me what to bring this Saturday... .

I mentioned how she should be getting home passes soon shouldn't she? And she said no because she hasn't gotten out of level 1 yet. I asked her why. She said she wasn't going to repeat everything that had happened; that I know about. I asked if anything new has happened that would prevent her from moving up and she said yes. She said that during an A.R.T. group session, where they do skits reflecting on things that are bothering them, some girl did one on her that "pissed me off, so I left the building and went to go feed my horse in the rain for about 20 minutes before they found me. So I got written up".  I told her that she has to try harder not to let things bother but to speak with her CM there and let her know what's going on.

She then told me how she wants to get a job there to stay out of trouble. I said that was a very good idea and to speak to her CM about that as well.  She then said how she organized for the girls to play kick ball yesterday afternoon to which I replied that she's always been such a great leader and how great I thought that was that she did that.  That maybe she can try and do that more often. She perked right up. Said how she told the staff that she could run the place to which they responded they had no doubt she could because she has such leadership abilities.  As I've mentioned before, one of her favorite teachers in school use to say how she was a natural born leader who just needs to use her powers for good and not evil.  I know for a fact if my DD stayed on the right path, she could definetly make a big contribution to society.

She did mentioned again that she doesn't think this is the right place for her but that if I make her stay, which she has no problem doing, just to let me know, she will come home the same way because there is absolutely no therapy. That they sit there staring at each other during session.  She also told me not to get mad, and not to say anything to her father, but that they discussed how she could move back (50/50 split again) after she comes out. That her father said he thought she'd be in less trouble living with me but now sees that it was worse. I didn't engage. I know her game and I know his game. All I said is that's something that would be discussed much later. She said she knows.

Lastly. she told me not to tell her dad she called me. Part of her (and his) game too.

Ray you handled that well! Good for you... . give it time and keep doing what you are doing

Does anyone have any advice as far as what to discuss at todays' treatment plan meeting?

Thanks! 

Ray is it hard to know what to ask until you are presented with the treatment plan. The plan should be very detailed. Were all your queston answered at the last meeting ? I know you had some concerns with the place.

We had the treatment plan meeting and things go a little intense.

It began when DD tried to explain that she isn’t getting anywhere with the therapist. It sounds like the therapist (who is about 25) has a very strong will like DD does and there is definitely a personality conflict there. And the therapist seems very immature and not at all professional in the least! She seems to get an attitude and a professional should not. She did design a treatment plan that sounds good and they are going to work on it, but my thought is if they aren’t getting anywhere, DD needs to see someone else. They said they have 5 therapists on site and they are all taken. So what’s one to do in this situation?  I asked her if she had experience working with people with BPD and she said yes. I said then you know the approach one has to take with people who have it? She said she did. But it sure doesn’t sound like it to me.

It got heated between my ex and the therapist because ex doesn’t know how to speak to people without coming across holier than thou. At one point he told her to let him finishing talking when she interrupted and then she did the same to him when he interrupted. I’m not at all impressed with this therapist.  What should I do?

Our district CM just called me on her own. She attended the meeting in person. She said she was "appalled" at the therapist. Said how a good therapist puts on a mask in front of their client and shows professionalism and she did none of that. That she made is blatantly obvious that she is very immature, inexperienced and has no business being a therapist. Wow. She also applauded me and my ex for speaking up. She is calling the therapist's supervisor first and if we get no where on that end, the big wig to complain about the therapist.

I shot an email to the CM at the facility whom I've developed a nice rapour with, and expressed my concerns and told her that if there isn't another therapist available that would be a better fit for DD, we may have to consider relocating.

I told my ex that I think it was really great how we showed DD that we are a united front about her concerns over the therapist. DD stretches the truth and has been known to exaggerate (sp?) but not in this instance. She is spot on. Of course we won't tell her that. I'm working behind the scenes to get it resolved.

RAy getting the right T is key for helping your DD... . I am glad you are advocating for her. How much time per week does dd have contact with T?

What are the qualifications of the therapist? What is her experience and training? What degrees does she hold and is she licensed? These are all questions you can ask. If you end up looking at a different setting start a list of questions and include the above. There is a ton of information seeking that needs to be done to find the best placement and therapist.

Keep in mind that the typical early responses from our BPD kid is to blame others, especially the therapist isn't the right fit. Sometimes it is true, sometimes not. Sometimes our kids deflect and try to distract the adults around them from the real work they need to do. Keep in mind too, that not all people that we come in contact with are we going to have the right fit with. In some cases though, we have to learn by still working with that person, despite differences.

I hear your alarms going off and that's good too, just be aware of all possibilities, the truth might be somewhere in the middle.

I think it is realistic of your d to say that she isn't getting anywhere with the therapist... . it is very early in the treatment plan, therapy takes a long time. Also, there has been so much drama which seems like a lot has been in part with your d. She has been very distracted by the drama whether she will admit it or not. Hard to focus on therapy when all the other stuff is a distraction.

Hope that helps in same way... .

Remember to take good care of yourself.

Being - It's not just my alarms that are going off, it's our CM and was exh's. As far as her credentials, she is a licenced therapist but is not certified in any particular kind of therapy. For my district CM to say what she said today after witnessing it first hand, I know I'm not over reacting and I know DD isn't either.

jellibeans - DD has therapy for 90 minutes a week. Twice a week (so 45 minutes each day). The therapist came right out and immaturally said, if DD doesn't talk, she isn't going to talk. Come on now.

Yup, totally understand that is was other people's alarms too.

Is she is psychologist, an LPC, SW.?

Honestly, I don't know. (where's the blush smiley). .

I finally ordered the Overcoming BPD book by Valerie Porr from my library (had to be shipped from another to mine) and have begun reading it. I'm only on page 10 and I'm already loving it.

Good for you Ray on getting the book! |iiii

Had visitation on Saturday and it went very well. DD was regulated and in an upbeat mood. She had me laughing telling me some of the adventures that have occurred there. She is a very good story teller. She hugged me long before I left and kept trying to delay me leaving. The only part I was extremely upset about is concenting my DS.  It was exh's week with him and so he brought him with him for the visit as well.

At first DS was great. He wanted to come home with me and was all over me. He's a very loving child. DD asked him to draw her a picture of her father, her, me and him so that she could put it in her room. Which he did. When there was about 20 minutes left of the visit, DS started getting bored and began making this annoying and distracting buzzing sound for attention. We kept asking him to please stop. But he would not listen. He didn't like it when I had told him that we were there to visit with DD when he kept asking me to arm wrestle him, etc. But exh engaged him.  :)D commented how my exh was talking alot last visit and asked why he wasn't this visit (sans me last visit). He was very standoffish and playing with his phone again. Which, by the way, is against the rules; you are not allowed to bring in any electronics. And I reminded him off this. Nice example he's setting for DD eh?  Anyway, DD was getting aggigated at DS. EXh wasn't doing anything about it. Even DD spoke up and asked exh if he wanted DS to be like her and to please do something about his behavior. All exh did was give him the 1-2-3 (which took him until really about the count of 10 to get to 3) and told DS he wasn't taking him the the B-Day party now after the visit (which he still did anyway. grr... . ).  Anyway, I ended up discipling DS but it wasn't effective because he knew he was going home with Daddy and not me. Guaranteed next visit, my week, he will not act like that. Why? Because I follow through on my threats. Case and point, I told DS he lost his television priviledges for two days now for his behaviour (one day for the school incidence and the other for his behaviour at the visit). That's all the leverage I have right now with him. Of course though electronics are also gone during that time (cell phone games and DS).

DS is pushing the envelope as is normal at this age. But this is the time to get him under control. But once again, DH is an obstacle because he doesn not discipline.

Oh and he ended up tearing up the picture he drew dor DD. She teared up and went in to the restroom to cry. I felt so bad. Little bugger. But rest assured, this ends now. He acts up on daddy's week  in school or during visits, he will be punished my week since daddy doesn't. It sucks that I have to do that, but I will not go down that road again.

Hi Ray, Poor kid might be looking for some control in his life. While he can't act out like this, perhaps giving him things he can control might help. Or, he might be attention seeking... . all efforts are devoted to your d., his dad is not a consistent, reliable, constant role model, while he is somewhere in the picture just letting you know he is still here too. We had similar issues for our youngest. We sought out ways to give her some control which helped her a lot.

Any suggetions? I've taken away his television for two days. What control could I give him?

Had an IEP via conference call today.  They said my DD is doing exceptionally well academically. That she is the brightest in the class and has been getting 100s on her tests! I am so proud of her!

If nothing else comes out of this, at least she is getting a good education.

That sounds great, raytamtay3! A nice ray of sunshine for you today... .

Is your daughter likely to be proud of that accomplishment? And, if so, maybe it could alter her behavior, sorta give her a reason to be more of a leader in a good way (rather than acting out in a bad way)?

Maybe she'll be settling in and take her treatment there seriously, and get to a better attitude and understanding of herself and her troubles. Good luck 

One can only hope Rapt!

Quick question. I received the summons for the incident that occurred at the RTC whereby DD alledgely cursed and spit on a staff member. Does anyone know if I'll be required to transport DD to and from court that day or if the RTC typically does that? Reason being is because it's at 9:00 am and the RTC is over and hour away.

Let him make some decisions... . even simple things and make it a conversation. Let him know that you recognize how difficult things are for him and that everyone struggles in different ways and even though his behavior was not acceptable that you see that things are very tough for him. Let him know that you see him in all his good aspects and that you are not as available as you'd like during the chaos. Tell him you want him to have some choices about good things that would help him. Pick a day, let him decide what is for dinner (no matter how crazy, make it a big event), let him skip making his bed for a day. Find 3 hours completely devoted to him where he gets to decide how to spend it with you. Let him decide if he wants to visit his sister or not and then honor it.

That type of stuff. Be creative. Keep in mind, he could be acting out to get your attention... . even if it is the wrong kind of attention. Start recognizing the good stuff, no matter how small and when you can or feel comfortable ignore some of the smaller negative behaviors. You could even tell him when he is acting out that you recognize that he needs to find other ways to get your attention, not with bad behaviors.

Thoughts or questions?

We pretty much do that now. For instance, he chose Tuesdays to be Taco Tuesdays. So every Tuesday he's with me, we make tacos. He had a good day at spring break camp yesterday, so we stopped off and picked up some assorted candies and rented a movie from Red Box. I told him if he is a good boy this week, he'll get a surprise at the end of the week (I bought a Happy Meal for myself last weekend and have the toy from it put away for him).

I did talk to him. I told him that I know he gets bored during visits (he likes to go), but that DD can only see us for a couple of hours a week and he has all of the other time from us the rest of the time.

Great job Ray! Can you expand on that and be intentional on conversation with him, giving him a few opportunities per week to control something, not based on a regular schedule and not tied to good behavior.

Green... . nice.  DD gets her first home pass this Sunday for Easter Sunday from 9 - 6! I'm going to tell her if she wants to see her friends, they will need to come to the house. We'll see how that goes.

I just got a call from a pediatrician at the RTC. DD is there because she's been having bad headaches. She told me she got into another fight last night. This time with one of her roomates. She said she accidently stepped on the girl's foot and the girl started with her and they started swinging on each other. She was crying saying how she wants to kill everyone in the house. That she never wanted to kill people as bad as she wants to kill them. That she's been trying so hard not to fight but they keep starting with her and swinging on her first. She said that restrained her before the other girl, so the girl got swings in on her to her head. Not good.

Raytam

Once again, your dd's behavior is not your fault, and she will need to deal with the consequences. Do you think subconsciously she was out to sabotage her Easter visit?  Holidays are very stressful for pwBPD. Perhaps she could not face her friends ?

I am sorry this has happened.  Remember, just go with the flow.  Do not take it personally.

No, she's been trying really hard to be able to come home. I can't say I blame her for defending herself. However I can blame her for how she reacts. She reinacted what happened and she was snippy with the girl after she stepped on her foot. Instead of saying a sincere 'I'm sorry', she was rude about it.

She's definetly not in a happy place emotionally today. I was given the option of getting her tomorrow from 9 - 6, or Sunday from 9 - 6. I'm hosting Easter and they don't transport for day passes. So we are talking 4 hours if I bring her home. I'd love to have her home for Easter, but now I don't know if that's feasible. I might have to go with tomorrow instead. Ugh - 4 hours... .

Ray

When your dd starts taking responsibility for her actions that is when she will be on the path to coming home. The fact that she is unable to get along says to me she is a long ways off from discharge.

When she comes home Ray... . don't over do it with the gifts... . do what you normally do... . I am not sure her friends coming over is a good idea but that is up to you. The fact that she still has friends is a plus. My dd can not maintain friendships at all and that is heartbreaking to see.

Take this time while your dd is in RTc to work on your skills and build your knowledge of this disorder. Take a class with NAMI and work on yourself as well. I hope you have a good Easter

I agree with jellibeans about the friends and gifts. When my d. was in a RTC, we focused on family visits only. After a long time of good/safe visits with family, then we were allowing friends but by that time her friends had moved on and so had my d. The friends that she had when she entered the RTC were not a good influence thus we did not allow them to be part of the home visits and focused on just family goals first. We also had safety plans in place for visits too. We created them and d. knew exactly what to expect in advance of the visit. If she didn't think she could do it, then no visit. If the visit started to go wrong, then she knew exactly what we would do.

jellibeans and Being - You both are right. I haven't mentioned anything to DD about friends, so maybe I'll just keep it as a family thing. Afterall it is Easter anyway.

Hey Ray, I thought of something else that might be helpful. We told our d. in advance of what the plans were and the rules (like no friends). We were quite specific with we will pick you up at xx:xx, then going home to spend the day, since it is Easter, so and so are coming over, we will have dinner, and we will drive you back at xx:xx. No friends, no cell phone, no computers will be allowed on this day. It helped because she knew exactly what would happen when, giving her stability with knowing a schedule, who was involved, and when. Advance warning on the friends and technology were really important so that she didn't start asking, challenging us and ramping up which at the early visits were helpful because she did not have skills yet to help regulate herself.

I won't see or talk to her until that day though. Ex is going to pick her up and drop her off at my house to help with the mileage. I appreciate that. I will take her back after dinner.

My DH isn't happy that they are allowing DD home without first discussing it with us and having a plan. I see his point, but I'm just happy she's coming home for Easter. I sure hope he gets to the point where he can forgive DD... . he clearly harbors a great deal of resentment.

Your DH is right about concerns that the RTC didn't help to put a plan together and consult you on whether a visit was appropriate at this time.

Since I didn't get the opportunity to talk to DD beforehand, I asked my exh to have her call me on the way to our house so that I can tell her the expectations for the visit or to let her know that the visit is to be with family and not friends.  He text'd me when they were 10 minutes away letting me know how close they were (it was 10 am at this point). So I never got the chance to talk to DD. When she came in I ran up and hugged her trying to make her see how happy I was that she was there for Easter. I had the whole family coming over for dinner. I made her up a little Easter basket as well.

She told me her friend was on her way over... . I said that I really didn't want her friend over this visit but that I would allow it but that she had to leave before the guests arrived, which was around 2 (I kick myself for giving in on that one  ).  :)D ran straight to her bedroom to change out of her RTC garb and into her regular clothes and put on makeup, etc. I started getting myself ready as well. She then started badgering me about letting her go out with her friend until dinner time. I said no. She relentlessly badgered me and I again said no, end of story. She stormed off.  When her friend arrived she came in and gave me a hug and wished me a Happy Easter. Now up until that point, out of all of DD's friends, I liked this one because while I know she smokes pot too, at least she goes to school and goes home at her curfew. So basically she plays the game. And that's all I've asked off DD too. Just play the game and do what you are suppose to do. Anyway, her friend came over around 12.  Around 1:40 DD asked if she could go get coffee at WaWa with her friend and I said no. There will be no leaving the premises. And I told her it was time for her friend to leave anyway because guests would be arriving any minute. She asked for $1 so her friend could just go and bring her back a coffee. I said I did not have any money on me and went on my back deck. She managed to get a $1 off of my mom and took off with her friend. She did not come back until 3:30 and was wasted! She started to try and explain what happened and I told her to save me any excuses and left it at that and we left at 5 for the ride back to the RTC. Neither one of us said word to each other on the way. She was still wasted.  I am calling her RTC CM today and telling her that DD is not ready to come home yet and I will not allow it for a long time and tell her what happened yesterday and request a drug test. I

her what occurred as well as ask that she be drug tested. I've had it. I am crushed  :'(

Ray... . were you really shocked? Put it behind you and realize your dd has a longs ways to go. See what the RTC says about future visits. They really should have prepared you for this first one but now you know going forward. She will come home again and you can plan for that. I would not let her have her phone at all during these visits and no friends for the first few times. Seems really soon for her to be coming home. I am surprised she didn't run away. It really could have been worse. My dd was only allowed to come home when she was getting close to being released.

My dd ran away from her RTC one night... . had a big party with strangers... . just did what she wanted while I worried myself sick at home. When they are in this frame of mind they really don't care about family or even themselves... . learn from the experience... . your dd has a long way to go.

jellibeans - In hindsight, no, I'm not surprised. I guess I was just hopeful. Our regular visitations were going really well and the RTC said how she was doing very well there too. I can't believe I let my emotional guard down again. I'm such an idiot. For whatever reason, it really hurt me this time. Oh well. Live and learn right?

I hear you Ray... . I have been in the same position... . I end up being more upset with myself than my dd because I was tricked or I just wanted to believe so badly... . just shake it off and don't be hard on yourself... . put it behind you... . keep going forward.  

Hi Ray, Try to use this to help you gain confidence, true meaning and acceptance to the fact that your daughter needs help, more than you can give her at home.

I am. In fact I told my DH that it's instances just like this that make it easier for me to keep her where she is.

The RTC CM got back to me and said how the day pass was a test for DD who failed it and agrees she should not be permitted passes for a while. She said how they don't test unless they feel the youth is under the influence.   Well I'm telling her she was, so I hope they do.

She said she was going to contact me today to see how things went and said how she's going to talk to DD about what transpired Sunday.

It's nice being able to let someone else grab the reigns now for a while. It really is a relief. And boy oh boy was Sunday a reminder of just how awful things were with DD being home (the cursing, relentless badgering, standing in my way when I'd try and walk away). I am going to try and enjoy every moment of calm.

As previously mentioned, I think, Sunday is my DD and my first family therapy session at the RTC. So instead of going to visit her tomorrow, I decided I'm just going for the therapy. She called my ex yesterday and told him she still wants me coming for a visit tomorrow. Well I'm sorry, I am not. Even if she hadn't totally ruined Easter by running off, I still wouldn't have gone because it's too much back and forth.

I am still very angry about Easter though. Truth be told. My ex said that DD told him she left because everyone was staring at her. What a crock.

I have to get my thoughts together and try and stop being so angry before Sunday.

Ah... . very WISE (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0) of you, raytamtay3  |iiii

Good luck on Sunday 

Had our first family therapy session Sunday. It pretty much went how our in-home sessions went with DD still not taking responsibility for anything and blaming everyone else. She and the therapist butted heads a lot during the session as the therapist, as mentioned before, is very immature and does not conduct herself very professionally. I’m still trying to have DD switched.  About 10 minutes into the session, the therapist called to have DD escorted back to her housing because DD was raising her voice. I spoke up and prevented it by saying our purpose here is to get out our frustrations. That aggravated me some… Also, the therapist admitted to being too busy to review DD’s file. She knows absolutely nothing as to why she is there. She just thought it was because she got arrested and it was court ordered.

Anyway, a lot of tears from DD. She repeated that she is not getting any therapy there and wants to go someplace else. When DD left the therapist said that they hold the youth accountable and DD, like the others, have a hard time with that.

At the end DD just started agreeing with everything to end it. Saying how she is wrong and everyone else is right. That she will work on herself by listening to authority figures, doing what they say without arguing, etc. Realistically that’s what we’d love for her to truly believe and do. She was just saying it however to get it over with.

She said how she wants to go to a drug and alcohol RTC now. That it’s the drugs making her do things. I believe this is an effort to get out of where she is, and she also knows that typically those programs don’t have as long duration as this place.

DD was upset because they moved her only friend out of her house claiming they are not there to make friends. Therapist told me when DD left it’s because they were in cahoots. 

I’d be lying if I didn’t say how it hurts to see DD so distraught and crying. I truly believe she believes what she says. And that is really bad. She still blames me for her being there. I reminded her about the court order but did tell her the truth that I was in full agreement with it because everything else we’ve tried has failed and that if I can at least keep her safe knowing where she is if nothing else comes out of this.

I’m worried about her. She does not feel she needs help. She is resisting it. She is just going through the motions to get out.

She cried when I told her I didn’t think she was ready to come home for visits. She said she really planned on staying in on Easter, but that she just couldn’t do it. I tried to get to the root of why she is so angry and wants to constantly run. She claims she isn’t. 

She got mad at me when I told her therapist about the assault and how that was one of my fears that would happen. She cried asking why I was telling her business. I told her she is hear to talk about things. Of course the therapist knew nothing about that. In addition, she knew nothing about DD’s in-patient and out-patient stints at mental health facilities. I really don’t know what to do at this point. I am very disturbed at the fact the therapist said she has so many kids and is too busy to read DD’s chart! What the heck! I need advice. What should I do?

Ray

I understand your frustration and your concerns but I do think it is a bit early in the process and you need to give it time.

My dd16 has a STRONG fight or flight repsonse when things are not going her way. She actually ran away from her RTC. this is probably why she was separated from her friend. I know it is hard to see your dd struggle but she needs to deal with the uncomfortable feelings she has and learn to deal with how that makes her feel. Don't try and save her... . rescue her.

Your dd is ODD... . it will be harder for her... . because that is the way she approaches difficulties... .

Were you given a treatment plan yet?

I know this. It's the therapist I am extremely concerned about. She is immature and unprofessional. I'm going with my gut on this one. I already emailed the RTC sasying DD is either assigned a different therapist or I'm having her discharged and moved elsewhere. We do not have time to waste for her to be "trained" on how to be a therapist!

You have no idea how appalling it was yesterday. The therapist kept rolling her eyes whenever my DD talked, intanaganizing her (sp?), would keep interrupting her and was downright rude. I know my DD has issues. I know my DD is trying anything to get out of there  - period. I wasn't even listening to what DD had to say about it. These are my own observations. I am not rescuring her. You know what. No, I am dammit. I'm rescuing her from being subjected to an unexperience, unprofessional immature therapist who literally conducts herself like a child and acts like my DD! Unacceptable and appalling. I am so angry right now.  I cannot believe an RTC would allow an unexperience therapist work with youth. My DD has enough issues than to have to deal with that. Nope. Sorry. Done.

Hi, raytamtay3... .

Have you heard back from the RTC about changing your daughter's Therapist yet?

From what you have observed and shared with us here, I would probably want to have that Therapist changed, also. I hope they can arrange someone more qualified, if the young woman working with your daughter can't do the job correctly.

Is there anyone else to support you in this, or to give their insights into what you are seeing? Her Case Manager or someone involved in sending her there? Do they keep in touch with the RTC or with you? How does your Ex--your daughter's father--feel about her changing Therapists? I'm sorry this is so stressful for you... .

Hi raytay,

I understand your frustration.  Been there.  My dd was in rtf for a year and I don't think she received any useful therapy at all.  The family sessions were a joke and we ended up cancelling half of them because they were so useless.  I kept in touch with the therapist via e-mail because I found her intolerable to deal with.

What concerns me most is that she did not have an expectation setting meeting for her home visit.  That's HUGE!  I believe it really set you all up for failure.  I'm not saying it would have gone perfectly if you had the meeting but it was doomed to fail without it.

Mostly you need to set your expectations for these places.  Your daughter may not get the counseling she needs and deserves in one of these places.  She will learn self control and see how very lucky she is to have a mom who cares as much as you do. That could take time, but just keep at it.  Keep her in an rtc (whether you move or not is up to you).  She doesn't belong home yet.  She'll just drive you crazy.  She needs time to learn and you need time to rest!

Take care of yourself

crazed

Yes. Our District CM was the first to mention how unprofessional and immature the therapist was after attending the care meeting in person along with my ex. She called me immediately and said she was "repulsed". She was beside herself. She wanted to contact the therapist's manager to complain and I said hold-off for a bit longer before now. Now I told her go right ahead. I haven't heard back from the facility yet.

Her father has not liked the place from the get-go, but I'm keeping him out of the process in that regard as much as possible out of fear he'll say something to DD to make matters even worse there (the thought that she's leaving anyway or something). He complains to me and I just assure him things have not gone unnoticed and will be addressed and leave it at that.

Oh there is no way in hell she's ready to come home! No way! But an RTC change may be needed. And she will stay where she is to streamline the process because she can't come home.

Ray

I am so sorry you are going through this.  Sometimes I wonder if the therapists do not need therapy and lesions on behavior. Maybe she is overworked, maybe she is tired of hearing about all the drama.  She is in the wrong profession if she feels that way.  A bad therapist is worse than no therapist.

Stay strong and fight for what is best for dd.  The system will not work without constant pressure on them to do so. Please do not give up.  Coming home is NOT an option for your dd.  It would be counter-productive for everyone.  You do not need that and neither does she.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm hoping that it's because they are trying to make a therapist change before they contact me, but I haven't heard a peep from the RTC about either wanting a new therapist for DD or a change.  I am really worried about DD. I feel I made a terrible mistake sending her to this RTC. I can't shake the feeling. I just hope I can find a better place for her.

It's okay Ray, take what you have learned and keep applying it forward. Ask yourself what could I do different in locating a different RTC or what can I do now to make the best use of this one. What are her specific needs. Really, really look deeply into each setting, if you are indeed looking for a different placement, start now. Many of us who have been through the process took many weeks to several months to find the right one.

how much more I can take! My mother moved in with us a few months ago after leaving my father as the environment was hostile between the two and unsanitary. Mom is on hospice and 24/7 oxegon and is doing better after in remission from lung cancer but still has COPD. She can walk around, but sleeps a lot. Dad (I'm his only child) lives at the house with my 27 year old niece and her 9 year old son. Niece was diagnosed bi-polar many years ago. She mainly stays in her room. My dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer this year.

The house has been in active foreclosure but I prepared the paperwork for a home loan modification and just got the results back today. My sister, her girlfriend and my nephew were going to move into the house to take it over and help take care of my dad if we could get the mortgage down to what they could afford. As it turns out, it's too high. My sister asked if my dad could kick in $200 a month towards the mortgage and still continue paying the utilities (which I oversee and pay from his account). My dad said no. That either the mortgage company lower it $200 or it goes to foreclosure. I asked my dad where he would go if it forecloses and he said with me... . I had to tell him that between my mom and DD, I simply cannot do it. I feel so bad! I love my dad. But my mom and dad fight like cats and dogs. Scream at each other and I just cannot bring that in to an already stressful home. Not to mention things with my DH aren't that great now either.  I am so stressed out. I'm considering going on antidepressants because I am having a very hard time coping lately. :'(

Ray

When it rains it pours.  I am so sorry.  I know EXACTLY how you feel.  My BPD son crashed his vehicle last week and is in the hospital in another city 100 miles away with serious injuries: broken shoulder, arm, leg, and ankle.  There was a police chase and charges pending.  He has had 2 surgeries and is being moved to a transitional care unit today.  No insurance.  Full-blown BPD.  I am scheduled to leave Friday morning for a trip to TX I have had planned for 4 months to visit my sister.  I have not been to her home in 35 years.  It is a birthday reunion as another sister and friend are coming from FL as well.  I cannot help but wonder if this had something to do with the crash. He hit a brick wall doing 90 mph.  The hospital says it is a miracle he survived.

I hear your pain.  I too am so tired of dealing with family issues.  My daughter is having surgery here the day before I get back.  That came up recently as well.  I feel terrible about leaving, but I have to go for many reasons.  There is nothing I can do. Why do they do this?  I wish I had an answer.

I am on antidepressants and they help tremendously.  Just an fyi.

God help us all.

Mamma - I am so sorry to hear what you are experiencing as well.    I'm glad your son is ok.  I think you need this trip to recharge your batteries.  We have to take care of ourselves in order to take care of our loved ones as well.  Thanks for reading my post and sympathizing. And take care of youself. Enjoy your trip.

I received an email earlier this morning from the RTC CM saying she spoke to DD and was asked how the family session went and DD said so-so and then DD was asked how she liked the therapist and said DD seemed to be in between. I had requested a certain therapist. The therapist I met when I came for the initial placement meeting, and who I thought was going to be DD's therapist seemed great. Older woman who seemed to be well educated and professional. I was even given her contact information, which I later found out was an error, and had a chance to talk to her about some concerns I had early on. I really like her. She was very helpfull. Well I requested her for the change and was told she wasn't available. And the CM said DD asked if she, the CM, could sit in in the next family session the current therapist. I responded that I am hoping for the change to occur before than because that's a month away. I just received another email saying the change has been made and it's the therapist I requested afterall! Fingers crossed! God please let this one work out! |iiii

 |iiii Good News  |iiii woo hoo

That is GREAT, raytamtay3  |iiii

Good work, Mom  *)

Yaaay!

You have such a lot on your plate. Time something went well!

Good advocating in the right area! So happy for you.

As expected, DH is on a war path.  The rule of the RTC is a request for visitation is to be received every Thursday prior to Saturday stating the time you are coming. It states in the handbook, and I've told my ex before, that if you are more than 15 minutes late for your scheduled visit you will be turned away.  EX told RTC that he would be there at 12.

Saturday I get a call from ex that he was turned away. He got there at 1:00 and the CM, who supervises the sessions, was leaving. He said he went off screaming and yelling and through the stuff he brought for DD. Real classy.  I understand he was angry for driving over an hour to get there and being turned away, but rules are rules. It really urks me that here we are trying to teach DD how to follow rules yet he feels we shouldn't have to!

He wants ME to call and complain for him! Um, no.

Reminder to self - you can't make a parent be a good parent... .

Ray... . I think this is good to be a good learning experience for your ex too!

Why can't I ever have any peace? I just received an e-mail that DD had to go to the ER and receive stiches near her eye after a peer hit her for her calling her a snitch! What the heck! This is the third time my DD has been assaulted at this RTC. I want her out. I can't take this crap anymore. I want to try someplace else. I do not feel she is safe at this current place.

Thing is, there aren't any places around me that I know anything about. Gloucester County, Burlington County area. Does anyone know of any place?

I'm pretty new here to the boards and I don't post much because I am still learning and I don't want to give someone wrong advice, but I have to say something to you Ray. I have stayed quiet on this topic for a couple reasons.  One is because I am just about to send my DD to a RTC and so I can't speak from experience.  Two is that there are many people who here who respond to you that are experienced and that have advice for you and I defer to them usually. I have followed both of your threads about your daughters RTC and it seems to me you have done everything you can to keep her in there.  You have given chance after chance to the RTC, to the staff, to your daughter.  You have erred on the side of caution and have avoided being manipulated by your DD. 

When is enough, enough?  I think you are right to want her out and want her someplace safe.  This place sounds TERRIBLE to me and makes me nervous about sending my own DD to a RTC.  It does not sound even MINIMALLY therapeutic, it sounds chaotic and violent, and the staff sound barely if at all competent.  I know I'm a big softie and that is the biggest problem I have in dealing with my own DD, but for the sake of the God's, stitches in her face?  I'm with you Ray, I would be so done.

Hi Elbry. Yeah, I've been trying hard to keep an open mind and I tend to listen to others who have experience and also I keep questioning myself if I'm just being a softy as well, and am indeed trying to rescue her. But I'm highly concerned over the amount of violence that takes place there.  My DD went through a period not even two years ago where she loved the thrill of fighting. Got off on the adrenaline rush that comes from fighting. She got away from that and has made tremendous strides in that area. Now she's back to loving it! She is tough. She does not back down no matter how big a person is. I'm really afraid something even worse if going to happen there. But now she says she doesn't want to leave. But it's because she's afraid she'll have to start her time over again. I'm still putting feelers out for some place else.  Don't let my experience deter you from getting your DD help. She needs it big time. Mine has a lot of behavioural issues in conjunction with BPD, so our challenges are very difficult. Not that anybody's elses aren't. But your DD would probably do well at a place that works with youth on more of the suicidal spectrum whereas my DD needs to work on her anger and reaction to situations wherein she will lash out. She isn't suicidal.

We had court this morning for the incident that took place in March wherein it was alledged DD spit in a staff member's face. It was dismissed without prejudice.  The judge commented on DD's cut on her temple (it wasn't her eye afterall) and addressed her RTC CM because she was highly concerned. The CM said the youth who assaulted was detained and will not be coming back to the program, which satisfied the judge. The girl aged out of the program anyway as she just turned 18... .

DD called me last night and I was expecting her to be emotional over having to get stiches and all, but she was bragging about how she still won the fight! How now everyone there knows they cannot mess with her.    I honestly do not know where my DD gets this tough girl attitude because I am so passive. Her father is all bark and no bite. DD is both bark and bite! As mentioned in my response to Elbry, DD said she wants to stay there now. Said she has been telling me how horrible it was and I didn't believe her and that now she wants to just get her time in and get out without starting over if going to another program. I, on the otherhand, still think I might want her out because now she's back to liking aggression. She is a camelion (sp) in that she takes on the personality of those around her. And she is around girls who come from bad bad homes, who are tough girls who if you look at them the wrong way will kick your butt. So she's back to that again.

Despite this, she looked great. She seems happy. Our lawyer and the judge even commented on it.  She is taking on a leader roll at the RTC and is overseeing restoring an old gazebo on the camp by faciliating it being sanded down, repainted and flowers planted around it. As mentioned, she's always been a good leader.

When you get a bunch of tough girls together, there is bound to be drama and a fight for dominarance. These girls see this pretty little girl and think they can intimidate her. Boy are they wrong. Secretly I love this about her. I was always the type who tried to get out of fights. Had one in my entire life. I hate fighting. I get scared. lol. My first defense is to cry when I get really angry. So I can appreciate the fact she doesn't let people walk all over her. But it's got to be majorly toned down before she gets seriously hurt or killed.

So I'm back to not really knowing what's the best choice.

I'm not criticizing you in any way because I think you are an amazingly strong woman and mother but I'm just wondering, if you move her, won't she face exactly the same kind of juveniles in any other RTC? The reason these kids are in there is because they all have issues, right? So the same problems are likely to come up over and over again.

If she's settled AND and this is the big 'and', is making progress in the right areas that you and the team want, as opposed to persuading everyone around to her way of thinking (what my BPD son does), would she be better off staying put?

raytamtay,

I am sorry that this RTC does not meet your expectations.  It does sound like her therapist left a lot to be desired.  Have you considered other facilities that may be good, but not in your area?  Even out of state?  Does insurance pay for any of this?  I know that lbjnltx's daughter had a successful stay at Falcon Ridge.   You may have read her thread.  Her story is so inspiring!

My adult daughter is a hellion, too!  Always ready to fight, never afraid to spout of what she thinks to anyone.  I am like you, on the passive side.  Although, my ex husband(her bio dad) was like that, too.  I m the polar opposite!  Prior to the fourth grade, my daughter was timid, then she did a 180!

I hope things improve for you!

peaceplease

DS7 is with exh this week. DS has been written up at the after school program for things like making noises and not listening. Yesterday he got written up when, after being told not to, went down the sliding board head first. This write up was the final one and he was suspended for two days from the after school program. Exh was able to get it reduced to him sitting out for the next two days at the program.  What bothers me is how he handled addressing this with our son. At first I was very impressed with how he handled it after he told me he took television away, put his toys in a bag and hid them away and made him go to bed after dinner around 7.  But then he proceeded to tell me he went off screaming and hollaring when they got home and took a wooden food tray and threw it down the basement steps causing it to break in peaces! WTH is wrong with that man? He is trying to intimidate DS to behave because he doesn't believe in spanking. I'm beside myself. That is how he would get when he and I would argue as well with DD when she would get in trouble. Gee... . can't imagine where DD gets the throwing stuff against the wall deal came from!    He also is now feeling incredibly guilty. As is his history and if history repeates itself, will go out of his way "to make things right" by DS. Thereby causing even more confusion to DS!

For some reason your ex is finding it very difficult to be consistent and as you are well aware this won't help your son at all.

Will your ex read?

It isn't in the remit of this board but I do think Carolyn Webster-Stratton's book would help.

Also there is a danger that going to far down the negative consequences route could be counter-productive. I think qcr mentioned some good resources on another thread.

This is a lot to handle with everything else you have going on but turning things round early could make a big difference to your son.

I used to work with younger children and families and the groups based on Webster-Stratton's book had very good outcomes for under 8s

So this past Saturday I went for my weekly visit with DD. I brought her some things she asked for and Taco Bell for us for lunch. It was a very nice visit. She was pleasant and spoke very intelligently, as she does, and asked if she would be able to come home when school starts in September. I told her if she did well at the center and really showed improvement, I would highly consider it. She literally breathed a sigh of relief and said how that made her feel so much better…

Last night I got a call from the RTC CM.  Apparently DD has a crush on a boy at the boy’s camp which is located across the grounds from the girl’s camp. About 10 yards.  Saturday night DD was caught trying to sneak out of her bedroom window and needed to be restrained. Sunday night, around 9:30, there was a code blue at the boy’s camp. Apparently both camps can hear when there is a code blue. It was said that DD started putting on her sneakers to leave the out of the house to go check out what was going on and her house mates even tried to get her to stop saying it wasn’t worth it. Somehow she got out and she, another girl and three boys from the boy’s camp took off into the woods and didn’t resurface until 5:00 am the next morning! State troopers were called but they weren’t able to find them. Of course rumor has it that they had sex. And DD is not on birth control…

So, once again, DD dug her own grave. She has yet to get off of orientation there.  The CM is a tough cookie as I think I had mentioned before. She has told me how DD is the most challenging client she’s had, as has her new therapist. But she still took a liking to her because despite her behavior, DD is very charming and has sweetness about her. So she reels people in with that part of her personality. In fact, the CM told me how she had planned on taking a few of the girls, DD included, out this weekend as a treat even though DD is still on orientation. Well of course that is out. So DD dug herself a grave with the CM too who up until this point, she had wrapped around her finger. But that’s done.

As I’ve said before, it’s times like these that make me feel so much better knowing I did the right thing by putting her in an RTC. Every single out patient place she’s gone to has not witnessed this side of her and would questions we, the parents.

Unreal.

Hey Ray

I just wanted to tell you my dd ran away from her RTC too after we had had really good visit. I am glad you are taking it so well. I cried all night and my husband drove the streets looking for her. I will tell you it was one of the lowest points for us as a family. My dd and your dd sound pretty similar in that way. My dd can fool people and even after all these years she can still fool me at times. I am glad you are doing okay and feel better about where she is placed. This will take time so hang on. Know you did the right thing... .

They called me after the fact; after she resurfaced. Otherwise I'd probably be a wreck too! That is another red flag though. She took off around 9:30 pm Sunday night and didn't come back until 5 am yesterday, yet I didn't get a call about it until 6 PM last night.  red-flag

I think that is a blessing Ray... . really I was worried sick when my dd was gone and there really wasn't anything I could do about it. The people at the RTC were not even looking ofr her nor were the police. They finally found them at 3am just walking the streets. This RTC is in a small college town and there was a big game that night. Students were in the street partying etc... . I was terrified something would happen to her. I would rather have not known if I could go back in time.

Ask them for your run away protocol... . that should be in writing somewhere. What numbers you can call after hours etc... . did you get a parent handbook? These are things that should have been spelled out for you very clearly. Not that I got that either when my dd was in RTC.

At least she is back at the center... . my dd has a real fight or flight impulse... . her plan to run away was not last minute... . she was wearing a sweater and it was very hot that day but she knew she would be out all night. One of the girls she ran away with shot herself to death a couple of months ago once she got out of RTC so I count myself lucky I still have my dd in my world.

Hang in there... . try not to worry... . take care of yourself.

While my D. was in RTC, she got her two front teeth knocked out. We didn't find out about it until many, many hours later.

God I wish! But sadly, no.

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